Discussions pertaining to Groundspeak's new Windows Phone app

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

Personally, as a student i can't afford a premium membership or a decent GPS so this will put a halt to my geocaching for a while

 

But you can afford a smartphone and monthly service?

[Mr.Yuck]

Dear Geocaching for Windows Phone 7 Application user,

 

We have some important and exciting news for you. In the coming weeks, we will be releasing a new Windows Phone 7 application called Geocaching Live. This application takes advantage of Microsoft’s new operating system, Mango, and will include some terrific new features. Geocaching Live will be free to download, and as a Premium Member of Geocaching.com you will have access to additional features within the application.

 

Premium Member features include:

• Access to all cache types, including Premium Member-only caches

• Detailed descriptions on all cache pages

• Reasonably unlimited cache downloads/day

• Ability to pin a live tile to the Start Screen that shows the nearest geocache at any given time (this updates every 20 minutes)

 

In addition, you will be able to take advantage of the following new features, which will be available to all members:

• A hardware compass

• The ability to pin saved “Advanced Search” results to the start screen

• Open Street Map Support

 

The current Geocaching for Windows Phone 7 application will be supported until 3/31/2013, at which time we will be turning off the API on which the application runs; this means the current Geocaching for WP7 application will not work after that date.

 

We encourage you to look for the Geocaching Live application in the Marketplace in coming weeks and we hope you enjoy it.

 

Happy geocaching!

 

The Groundspeak Team

 

Looks like they are making it free.

 

So that's going to impact both geocachers that own Windows 7 phones?

 

This is amazing! All this time I was wondering who the other Geocacher who had a WP7 is, and it was Coldgears all along!! Acually, from the Geocaching WP7 app forum, I long ago noticed most WP7 app users were German. It had even influenced me to look up the WP7 Smartphone market share in Germany, where it is 12%. It's only 2% in America. And keep in mind, these are smartphone stats, not all cell phone stats.

 

I paid $10 for a service (an app) that they are going to take away? Do I get my money back?

 

I got the email about 6 hours before I looked at the forums (I was banned anyways ) And this thought never once crossed my mind. They can keep the $10 I gave them last October, in my case. As someone else said, you have slightly over a year before they "turn off" the old app. I can't wait for this thing to come out, Bring it on!!

 

Apparently Groundspeak has been enlisted to help sell more WIN 7 phones.

 

I would have to say so, although I don't know if you were kidding or not. I don't know that "live" is a microsoft trademark or anything, but have you ever heard the term "Windows Live"? The term "X-box Live"? I can tell you when you activate an X-box (my kid), or a Windows Phone (myself) you get a live.com email address. I'm of the opinion there is a partnership, but we'll find out for certain in a couple of days I guess.

[AmorFati]

Groundspeak must be kidding us. I paid USD 10 for app (one of the most priciest on the Marketplace) that didn't even work. Groundspeak screwed with Windows Phone users from the very beginning with not updating it or updated it reluctantly. The app is barely usable, compass doesn't work until these days, half a year from Mango release which provided developers access to compass API. When Groundspeak finally made the app stable at least, the season was over and I used it to find 5 (!) caches. Yes, GC is not sport for me, I'm an occassional cacher. However for that reason exactly I feel cheated and I quit geocaching whatsoever. I don't [edited] for paying Pro memebership when I paid for your stupid and barely usable app, my beloved Groundspeak. For a service so totally dependant on crowdsourcing, Groundspeak's attitude towards users is far off my comprehension. And besides that it seems that re-releasing the same or slightly innovated app under another name just to force users to pay again seems to slowly become a habit on Windows Phone Marketplace. It's now third or fourth app of about 20 I bought which is relabeled and money wasted. Well, GS, don't ever expect to see my money again.

 

And BTW stop the brand flameware. Firstly its offtopic and secondly its stupid.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Keystone
potty language removed

[Mr.Yuck]

Hi,

We recieved an email from Geocaching.com regarding the WP7 App we own. If this is not a fake email the WP7 App will be canceled in the next weeks and will be replaced with a free Live App with extremely limited features for GC Basic Members like us. According to the mail you can only download THREE TRADITIONAL caches per day (what a joke!!!) with all informations (descrpition...). After that you can only download traditional caches with coordinates and T/D information.

 

Instead of updating the current app to a well working status Geocaching.com seams to be more intrested in making more and more money by forcing you to be a premium member to use the application. We purchased the app about 8 months ago and it never worked very well in the german version. Over months the app was nearly useless because of bugs in the german version. It was never updated to a version using all mango features (like the compass) and now it gets canceled?

 

Maybe some one can confirm this informations. Is it only the WP7 App, or are the Iphone and Android apps also affected?

 

If the informations are true and WP7 users are the only ones being disadvantaged it is really shocking. Instead of building a satisfied WP7 community GC.com screws us with 9€ for an only moderate working application (and we purchased two). The only way to continue GC seams to become a Premium Member, thats a shame. We were considering a Premium Membership for this year anyway but not to use our GC application appropiate. When we started GC it was about having fun and not about making money...

 

Happy caching anyway, the ClimbingBunnys

 

I can't comment on the premium membership thing, as I've been one since I believe February 2004 it was, and they pretty much have my money for life.

 

One important thing you may have missed in the email, the old non-Mango version will work for at another year and 15 days, until the end of March 2013.

[AmorFati]

I paid $10 for a service (an app) that they are going to take away? Do I get my money back? And then the new app isn't going to give me all the cache information? Is this yet another step back?? I've already paid for the service and then I'm only going to be allowed 3 caches (traditional) a day?? What's the point of having the app in the first place? Geocaching was one of my main deciding factors for getting a smart phone in the first place. I like the app the way it is, with the exception of some malfunctions that need to be fixed within the app itself. I don't need the compass as most the time the GPS on the app has me anywhere from 50 feet away to a mile away. Is this all a misunderstanding? Basically we're being told that if you want to geocache you have to be a premium member.

 

Something else I thought of... Something I already paid $10 for is now going to cost me $30 dollars yearly. For an app, $30 a year.

Well no, you will be paying $30 per year for the provision of information that everyone else pays $30 per year for. The new app is free.

 

If there was some quirk that gave Win7 app users a free ride that is now to be stopped (in a years time) then enjoy the free ride while it lasts.

 

That is a joke, isn't it? I don't care about premium memebership (even if I once had it in the past). I knew the terms of the deal, I knew the price and I made a QUALIFIED DECISION to give Groundspeak my 10 dollars to buy their once crappy app. They were slow with development and bug fixing under many excuses. Even if the app doesn't work fully even nearly two years after its release, I still PAID my 10 dollars for it and I do want to use it. If Groundspeak wants to change the rules of the game on its side, well I only have one response: Let me use my app as long as I want to, because that's what originally was the deal, give me my money back or give me time unlimited premium membership to use the new app in a manner similar to the old one, or forget me as user and on top of that forget about seeing my money ever again. I paid money to use the app, not to being told that I can't anymore.

[+ClimbingBunnys]

 

I can't comment on the premium membership thing, as I've been one since I believe February 2004 it was, and they pretty much have my money for life.

 

One important thing you may have missed in the email, the old non-Mango version will work for at another year and 15 days, until the end of March 2013.

 

I didn't miss that fact, but without support the app will remain in version 2.5 and this is not acceptable because there are enought bugs in it and they will never get fixed.

[hopmedic]

Well, I was a premium member, and it recently expired (I've been too busy to do any geocaching lately). I was figuring that I'd renew it when I had time to do some caching, but with the email I got about the new app, after I paid $10 for the Windows Phone app, and all the complaining that several of us did because it didn't work properly, and with Groundspeak's opacity in dealing with the complaints (http://forums.Ground...howtopic=271443, http://forums.Ground...&st=0&p=4802974), I will not be renewing my premium membership. I certianly will not buy another app when I already bought one, so it looks like this is the end of geocaching for me.

 

Groundspeak: There is only one reason to publish a new app rather than publish an update to the existing one. So that you can charge people again for an app that they already purchased. If you weren't so greedy, you would write the new app to use the new API, and you would publish it as an update to the existing app.

 

<Rant>

For those who choose to blast Windows Phone users, I just say this: If there were not enough Windows Phone users to justify the expense of developing an app, Groundspeak, especially as greedy as it is, would not put forth the resources to do so. I certainly would not be developing Windows Phone apps if there weren't some money in it for me. So, yes, there ARE Windows Phone users, and they DO number more than 6.

</Rant>

 

Sincerely,

 

Rich Hopkins

Former premium member

WINDOWS Phone DEVELOPER

Edited March 15, 2012 by hopmedic

[Mr.Yuck]

 

I can't comment on the premium membership thing, as I've been one since I believe February 2004 it was, and they pretty much have my money for life.

 

One important thing you may have missed in the email, the old non-Mango version will work for at another year and 15 days, until the end of March 2013.

 

I didn't miss that fact, but without support the app will remain in version 2.5 and this is not acceptable because there are enought bugs in it and they will never get fixed.

 

I agree, I seriously doubt it will ever progress past v 2.5.0.0

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

Won't the new app be a free download?

 

Geocaching Live will be free to download...

[hopmedic]

Won't the new app be a free download?

 

Geocaching Live will be free to download...

Yes, it will apparently be free... For NOW. But just as easily they could have changed the price in Marketplace to make it free as an update, too. But this way, when they do decide to make it not free (can ANYONE imagine Groundspeak NOT raising the price???), even those who paid already for the current app will have to pay for the new one, if they're not paying attention and don't download it while it is free. Do you trust Groundspeak? I certainly do not, given my experience with them. I am done as a geocacher.

[+PapaMinion]

But why is it only affecting Window Phone users? How is that fair if the other phone apps get to stay the same.

 

You are looking at this all wrong. Mango is a much more streamlined version of the Windows Phone 7 OS that incorporates new technologies and features. Groundspeak has decided that instead of bringing their current app over to the new OS, they are building an entirely new app to take advantage of the new API features as well as Mango's. The best part is that they're making it free. It'll be as functional as the iPhone/Android versions, with some nice little flourishes that Mango brings to the table. Your old app will work until NEXT March, so you'll get another year of that app if you want, but in all seriousness, why would you if the new app ends up being the better product? You're making a big deal out of nothing, to be honest. I'd be perfectly happy if they replaced my iOS app with a free, more functional version, as this one is a little long in the tooth and not as nice as some of the competing apps out there (Geosphere comes to mind).

[AmorFati]

Geo Minions, that simply isn't true! The new app will only be better, if you PAID Groundspeak MORE MONEY. I already gave them enough, seen their incompetence and inability to create really usable app and now they(re tossing all paying users off the ship, because they want us to pay again and more? Not for the app but for Premium membership, because without it the app will be almost useless: For example: When I geocache, I usually don't care for 3 nearest geocaches around me. I care about GCs on my routefrom point to point. Funny niether of those has to be among three closest. I already paid for this service and most certainly will not pay again. Not ever. BTW why could almost every other developer UPDATE their apps to Mango, just Groundspeak took their time and finaly screwed the users up?

[helmius]

I would just like to add that I have no problem with them updating the app, even though I would feel cheated i would probably pay for it. The thing I'm mad about is that i would have to be a premium member to get access to functions that people on the other platforms are getting for a one time purchase.

[Moun10Bike]

FYI, I've merged several of the duplicate threads floating around the forums into this one.

[Entegy]

FYI, I've merged several of the duplicate threads floating around the forums into this one.

Thank you Mount10Bike. One thread should give precision to this conversation.

[stuartwells]

I was wondering how many people actually bought the Windows Phone 7 geogaching application? I certainly did - and it was the most expensive of all the apps I have purchased on my windows phone 7.

 

I was very dissappointed today (quite angry really) that not only are they releasing a new application instead of updating the existing one - but they are going to deliberately prevent it working around a year from now. So, what exactly did I pay for when I bought the application? I didn't think I was only buying a 2 year license?

 

The new 'live' app has a differently revenue model - it is still free for limited functionality, and the full functionality is still only available for premium members, but the middle ground of being a 'paid for' licensed users of the app and so getting some additional functionality but not the full set has been removed.

 

Not happy.

 

Now maybe the functionality I previous got from my paid for Windows Phone 7 app that I actually used will be available in the new app without the need to become a premium member - but I got the impression it won't be.

 

Are they deliberately trying to annoy me by selling me something and then disabling it. You could at least leave it running but not sell any more of them.

[Moun10Bike]

I'm merging this duplicate thread into the existing one on this topic.

[stuartwells]

But why is it only affecting Window Phone users? How is that fair if the other phone apps get to stay the same.

 

You are looking at this all wrong. Mango is a much more streamlined version of the Windows Phone 7 OS that incorporates new technologies and features. Groundspeak has decided that instead of bringing their current app over to the new OS, they are building an entirely new app to take advantage of the new API features as well as Mango's. The best part is that they're making it free. It'll be as functional as the iPhone/Android versions, with some nice little flourishes that Mango brings to the table. Your old app will work until NEXT March, so you'll get another year of that app if you want, but in all seriousness, why would you if the new app ends up being the better product? You're making a big deal out of nothing, to be honest. I'd be perfectly happy if they replaced my iOS app with a free, more functional version, as this one is a little long in the tooth and not as nice as some of the competing apps out there (Geosphere comes to mind).

 

I think the point is - it isn't more functional - it is less functional (or at least some of the functions will be missing even if there are some new ones added). To get back the functionality that has been withdrawn you have to become a premium member. Maybe if they did a side by side comparision of old "paid for" app vs new app "free app" we could get a clearer picture. It isn't the fact Ipaid for something that might be free now, it is the fact I paid for something that does more that its replacement and they are taking it away from me.

[Dulce-Joy]

I was wondering how many people actually bought the Windows Phone 7 geogaching application? I certainly did - and it was the most expensive of all the apps I have purchased on my windows phone 7.

 

I was very dissappointed today (quite angry really) that not only are they releasing a new application instead of updating the existing one - but they are going to deliberately prevent it working around a year from now. So, what exactly did I pay for when I bought the application? I didn't think I was only buying a 2 year license?

 

The new 'live' app has a differently revenue model - it is still free for limited functionality, and the full functionality is still only available for premium members, but the middle ground of being a 'paid for' licensed users of the app and so getting some additional functionality but not the full set has been removed.

 

Not happy.

 

Now maybe the functionality I previous got from my paid for Windows Phone 7 app that I actually used will be available in the new app without the need to become a premium member - but I got the impression it won't be.

 

Are they deliberately trying to annoy me by selling me something and then disabling it. You could at least leave it running but not sell any more of them.

I agree with part of what you said, but I believe that we should have the full update to the app, just without the premium benefits if we are not premium of course. If all other app users get to continue to have a fully functioning app, what is the point of having an app anyway? Having an app is not supposed to be a "benefit" of being a premium member. There are a lot of premium members that don't have smart phones. Why wouldn't we have an app that continues to get updates? All Windows Phone users should be able to pay the $10 and to have a fully functioning app now and in the future without having to become premium members. I think the problem that they were having is that they weren't continuing to make money off the product. It was a one time fee.

[Dulce-Joy]

Instead of iPhone users and Android users poo-pooing the Windows Phone, they ought to be thinking that this quite possibly can and will happen to them in the future. The Windows Phone users are the smallest group of the three, which would also make us the test group to see if we will just accept it.

[Entegy]

Personally, as a student i can't afford a premium membership or a decent GPS so this will put a halt to my geocaching for a while

 

But you can afford a smartphone and monthly service?

Outside of North America, mobile plans are much better. Also, consider phones that were given as gifts or won in a contest - they don't need up front data plans to be used.

 

Also consider carriers who offer you-only-pay-what-you-use data plans instead of a flat fee for so many MB/GB.

[Mr.Yuck]

Alrighty now. The email posted by Coldgears in the OP? That was sent only to premium members. I got the same one. It appears there was an extra paragraph in the one sent to regular non-premium members, which outlined the restrictions placed on them, if they didn't decide Premium Membership was for them. That would explain the previously unexplained (to me, and many others) angst.

 

My opinion? They're ticked off about buying the most expensive app in the entire Windows Phone Marketplace (I have seen "learn a language" apps that are also $10 U.S.), and then being told they pretty much need a premium membership for the new one, or they will be greatly restricted in what they can do.

[+Huntleigh]

Alrighty now. The email posted by Coldgears in the OP? That was sent only to premium members. I got the same one. It appears there was an extra paragraph in the one sent to regular non-premium members, which outlined the restrictions placed on them, if they didn't decide Premium Membership was for them. That would explain the previously unexplained (to me, and many others) angst.

 

My opinion? They're ticked off about buying the most expensive app in the entire Windows Phone Marketplace (I have seen "learn a language" apps that are also $10 U.S.), and then being told they pretty much need a premium membership for the new one, or they will be greatly restricted in what they can do.

That's how I read it too, but what is not clear to me is whether this places them in the same boat as non-Premium iPhone & Android users or a different boat?

[+Lil Devil]

but what is not clear to me is whether this places them in the same boat as non-Premium iPhone & Android users or a different boat?

Since the WP app is simply moving to the latest API, the same API that Android and iPhone are already using, I'm pretty sure that puts everyone in the same boat.

 

Well, except the new WP app will be free. So WP users are actually in a better boat.

[Dulce-Joy]

Alrighty now. The email posted by Coldgears in the OP? That was sent only to premium members. I got the same one. It appears there was an extra paragraph in the one sent to regular non-premium members, which outlined the restrictions placed on them, if they didn't decide Premium Membership was for them. That would explain the previously unexplained (to me, and many others) angst.

 

My opinion? They're ticked off about buying the most expensive app in the entire Windows Phone Marketplace (I have seen "learn a language" apps that are also $10 U.S.), and then being told they pretty much need a premium membership for the new one, or they will be greatly restricted in what they can do.

Here's the email for Basic (non-premium) members:

 

Dear Geocaching for Windows Phone 7 Application User,

 

In the coming weeks, we will be releasing a new Windows Phone 7 application called Geocaching Live. This free application will replace our current Windows Phone 7 Application. It takes advantage of Microsoft’s new operating system, Mango. It will include limited features for Groundspeak Basic Members as well as some new features for Groundspeak Premium Members.

 

Please note that on or after March 31, 2013, our current Windows Phone 7 Geocaching Application will cease functioning. This means that the current application will continue to work for a period of at least one year from today.

 

If you choose to sign up for a Premium membership, in addition to other great features, our new application will give you:

• Access to an upgraded experience with other applications using the Geocaching Live API.

• Access to all cache types

• Detailed descriptions on all cache pages

• Ability to pin a live tile to the Start Screen that shows the nearest geocache at any given time (this updates every 20 minutes)

 

We’d like to give you the opportunity try out these new features by providing you with a 1 month free trial subscription. Please use this code at http://www.geocaching.com/freetrial/

 

WP7-XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

Becoming a Premium Member of Geocaching.com is the best way to take full advantage of the new Geocaching Live application and any other application connecting to the Geocaching .com website through the Geocaching Live API. For a list of other applications, please visit: www.geocaching.com/live

 

If after the trial, you decide Premium membership is not for you, you’ll still be able to take advantage of these features in the new Geocaching Live application:

• 3 complete traditional geocache downloads per day (with detailed descriptions)

• After the first 3 downloads, “light” geocache data that includes coordinates, cache name, difficulty/terrain information

• Unrestricted logging of caches and Trackables

• A hardware compass

• The ability to pin saved “Advanced Search” results to the start screen

• Open Street Map Support

 

We encourage you to look for the Geocaching Live application in the Marketplace in coming weeks.

 

Happy Geocaching!

 

The Groundspeak Team

[Dulce-Joy]

but what is not clear to me is whether this places them in the same boat as non-Premium iPhone & Android users or a different boat?

Since the WP app is simply moving to the latest API, the same API that Android and iPhone are already using, I'm pretty sure that puts everyone in the same boat.

 

Well, except the new WP app will be free. So WP users are actually in a better boat.

 

I know the trial for iPhone was free, so basically this Lite version would be the same as that. That's not a better boat. We paid for our app, just as the other phone platforms did. Just because they are moving to the same API as everyone else, does that mean that Windows users are supposed to be penalized?

[+Huntleigh]

but what is not clear to me is whether this places them in the same boat as non-Premium iPhone & Android users or a different boat?

Since the WP app is simply moving to the latest API, the same API that Android and iPhone are already using, I'm pretty sure that puts everyone in the same boat.

 

Well, except the new WP app will be free. So WP users are actually in a better boat.

 

I know the trial for iPhone was free, so basically this Lite version would be the same as that. That's not a better boat. We paid for our app, just as the other phone platforms did. Just because they are moving to the same API as everyone else, does that mean that Windows users are supposed to be penalized?

If what Lil Devil has suggested is correct Win users are not (being penalized).

 

Are there any non-Premium members out there who are using either the iPhone or Android platform who can verify whether they also are limited to 3 caches per day, etc?

[jholly]

but what is not clear to me is whether this places them in the same boat as non-Premium iPhone & Android users or a different boat?

Since the WP app is simply moving to the latest API, the same API that Android and iPhone are already using, I'm pretty sure that puts everyone in the same boat.

 

Well, except the new WP app will be free. So WP users are actually in a better boat.

 

I know the trial for iPhone was free, so basically this Lite version would be the same as that. That's not a better boat. We paid for our app, just as the other phone platforms did. Just because they are moving to the same API as everyone else, does that mean that Windows users are supposed to be penalized?

If what Lil Devil has suggested is correct Win users are not (being penalized).

 

Are there any non-Premium members out there who are using either the iPhone or Android platform who can verify whether they also are limited to 3 caches per day, etc?

3 per day is standard for the API. GSAK is limited to 3 per day for members, to get the full use you need to be a premium member.

[Dulce-Joy]

but what is not clear to me is whether this places them in the same boat as non-Premium iPhone & Android users or a different boat?

Since the WP app is simply moving to the latest API, the same API that Android and iPhone are already using, I'm pretty sure that puts everyone in the same boat.

 

Well, except the new WP app will be free. So WP users are actually in a better boat.

 

I know the trial for iPhone was free, so basically this Lite version would be the same as that. That's not a better boat. We paid for our app, just as the other phone platforms did. Just because they are moving to the same API as everyone else, does that mean that Windows users are supposed to be penalized?

If what Lil Devil has suggested is correct Win users are not (being penalized).

 

Are there any non-Premium members out there who are using either the iPhone or Android platform who can verify whether they also are limited to 3 caches per day, etc?

When I was using the trial version on the iPhone we could only get the closest 3 caches (with descriptions) to our location but, as often as we wanted for as long as we wanted. And yes, as I see it, we are being penalized. We already paid for the app. On the iPhone and Android did you pay for your app? Or do you have to be a premium member to use the app?

Edited March 16, 2012 by Dulce-Joy

[Dulce-Joy]

Honestly, we haven't completely decided yet, but if it becomes the case that Window Phone users are required to have a premium membership to use a fully functioning app without any restriction, aside from premium benefits, it just might mean the end of our geocaching. This just seems kind of crooked and I don't know if this is something that we want to deal with. We'll decide when the time comes.

[AmorFati]

I certainly FEEL penalized. If the Live app had been released at the very beginning, I wouldn't care. On the other hand I PAID for a then time-unlimited service, which GS now considers ended and to continue the same service forces me to pay MORE MONEY, which BTW for an occassional cacher is insanely pricey.

 

1) As a customer I DON'T CARE, which API the application uses or what it's technical background is.

2) I PAID 10 USD (and really, pricier than this are just fullblown navigations like Navigon) for an app with a certain set of features.

3) Groundspeak closes support on this app, re-releases it for free and ASKS ME FOR MORE MONEY to get THE SAME SET of features.

4) I feel cheated.

5) I didn't get the e-mail, so I don't even have the code for one month premium trial.

6) I also feel amused for Groundspeak moderating this topic but not being able to produce a single line of explanation, excuse and settlement offer. I might for example consider this issue settled for three years (approx. the time I bought the app for - device lifecycle) of free premium membership (which costs more than 10 USD, but is the only way to get the same set of features I paid for - which BTW is GroundSpeaks own decision and problem to settle, not mine).

 

Were other platforms in this position? Did other users paid, were cheated on and forced to pay again? Even if they were, it's still cheating.

[AZcachemeister]

 

If what Lil Devil has suggested is correct Win users are not (being penalized).

 

Are there any non-Premium members out there who are using either the iPhone or Android platform who can verify whether they also are limited to 3 caches per day, etc?

 

I just signed-in on my ANDROID phone using my non-premium account.

I was able to view many more than three Geocaches. I didn't try to 'save' any of the information because there isn't a need to do so to go caching.

[Mr.Yuck]

 

Here's the email for Basic (non-premium) members:

 

Dear Geocaching for Windows Phone 7 Application User,

 

[major snip]

 

 

Thanks for posting the non-premium version of the email Dulce-Joy. That is very different from the one posted by Coldgears.

 

OK, this WP7 App using premium member is on board with you guys. Make your small number of mostly European voices heard.

[+sebbo92]

I'm a non-premium member and I really feel penalized too. For only half the price, I could have bought the app "Outdoor Navigation" and just type in the coordinates or import the free LOC-files - at least it is working and has a load more functions. I think i will just use the free premium month and then see how the limitations without premium, but I simply cannot afford spending 30$ a year for just a hobby..

[+Coldgears]

but I simply cannot afford spending 30$ a year for just a hobby..

Please tell me, what hobbies do you have that are cheaper than $30 a year? All my hobbies cost much, much more. In fact, geocaching itself can, and has, cost me about $50+ in a day, just in gas and eating. Fly model airplanes? Hundreds to thousands for the vehicle, hundreds a year for gas. Play video games? $300 for the console, $60 per game. Like to Garden? $100+ easy for seedlings, seeds, and upkeep. Like to Scuba Dive or Rock Climb? Thousands for equipment. Hunting? Hundreds. Woodworking? Hundreds. Collecting? Hundreds to thousands.

 

Yes, I would love, absolutely love to know what hobby I can have for under $30 a year. Geocaching doesn't even cost that, considering the price of gas, and eating out. Geocaching probably cost me close to 600 - 1000 a year.

 

But, yes. Everyone of my hobbies has cost me hundreds. I have yet to find one under $30.

 

However, since you can't afford it. I assume you have multipule hobbies under $30 a year. I would LOVE to be informed. As I have been searching for years for a cheap hobby... So I can have extra money too... Crap! In fact, I spend all my leisure money on my hobbies! Who'd guess?

[Dulce-Joy]

 

If what Lil Devil has suggested is correct Win users are not (being penalized).

 

Are there any non-Premium members out there who are using either the iPhone or Android platform who can verify whether they also are limited to 3 caches per day, etc?

 

I just signed-in on my ANDROID phone using my non-premium account.

I was able to view many more than three Geocaches. I didn't try to 'save' any of the information because there isn't a need to do so to go caching.

Thank you AZcachemeister.

[AZcachemeister]

 

Thank you AZcachemeister.

 

You're welcome!

 

All this does make me wonder if the other two apps will be following this model in the near future.

Since I am already a PM (and plan to remain one), it won't affect me.

With all the other posts (in various threads) mentioning the possible negative consequences of 'how easy it is to just download an app and go caching' without actually understanding the game, I'm not so sure it would be a bad thing to 'encourage' people to become PM to get full usage out of any of the smartphone apps. I'm sure that is why the prices are 'so high', but possibly TPTB feel the need to 'screen out' those less dedicated users even further.

 

I don't agree with the tactic of taking it away from those who have already paid, but it isn't the first case of 'the frog giveth, and the frog taketh away'.

Edited March 17, 2012 by AZcachemeister

[helmius]

One thing to remember as well is that this might scare new geocachers away. Many people have smartphones and paying a one time fee just to try this out is not a huge deal but i think that this will scare away a lot of the newcomers. Furthermore, if they chose not to pay, they will get a [deleted] app and that won't help making this look interesting.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Keystone
potty langauge removed by moderator

[Dulce-Joy]

Any word?

[+baloo&bd]

I guess the majority of us reading this thread, those with smartphones and iphones, are trying to figure out why those with Windows phone have been getting a free ride and are now upset that GS is making the deal ever sweeter for Windows users by giving them free access to the API that everyone else has to pay for.

 

Before you jump on the $10 thing, no, that is not that much money for software and get over it since we paid the same however as new users come on they will have to pay while the dozen or so Windows phone new users that join over the next 4 or 5 years will have a free ride.

Edited March 18, 2012 by baloo&bd

[Dulce-Joy]

I guess the majority of us reading this thread, those with smartphones and iphones, are trying to figure out why those with Windows phone have been getting a free ride and are now upset that GS is making the deal ever sweeter for Windows users by giving them free access to the API that everyone else has to pay for.

 

Before you jump on the $10 thing, no, that is not that much money for software and get over it since we paid the same however as new users come on they will have to pay while the dozen or so Windows phone new users that join over the next 4 or 5 years will have a free ride.

Huh? I don't understand your point. What free ride? Seriously, I really don't understand. To use the Geocaching app on iPhone and Android, you pay $10 right? That's what we did as Window Phone users, pay $10 dollars. Where is the free ride? Future users will have access to an app that is a lite version, just like iPhone's trial version, but with less access. Where is the free ride? I'm really trying to understand your logic. Maybe I'm missing something, let me know.

[+baloo&bd]

I guess the majority of us reading this thread, those with smartphones and iphones, are trying to figure out why those with Windows phone have been getting a free ride and are now upset that GS is making the deal ever sweeter for Windows users by giving them free access to the API that everyone else has to pay for.

 

Before you jump on the $10 thing, no, that is not that much money for software and get over it since we paid the same however as new users come on they will have to pay while the dozen or so Windows phone new users that join over the next 4 or 5 years will have a free ride.

Huh? I don't understand your point. What free ride? Seriously, I really don't understand. To use the Geocaching app on iPhone and Android, you pay $10 right? That's what we did as Window Phone users, pay $10 dollars. Where is the free ride? Future users will have access to an app that is a lite version, just like iPhone's trial version, but with less access. Where is the free ride? I'm really trying to understand your logic. Maybe I'm missing something, let me know.

 

If I am reading the thread correctly, and quite frankly the logic is very convoluted, it reads like you were getting full PM access with your app whether or not you were actually a PM. If that is wrong, I apologize. Lines similar to this (from you) is where the free ride comment originated; "All Windows Phone users should be able to pay the $10 and to have a fully functioning app now and in the future without having to become premium members."

 

That notwithstanding, Window phones simply to not have a significant market share for developers to pay it any serious attention. This may or may not factor into GS's decision, however when you have Symbian and Android siting at the top, followed by Blackberry and iPhone, I can't see a phone that does not rank in even the top 5 warranting any real resources. May not seem fair, but business works this way.

Edited March 19, 2012 by baloo&bd

[+cerberus1]

"when you have Symbian and Android siting at the top, followed by Blackberry and iPhone, I can't see a phone that does not rank in even the top 5 warranting any real resources."

 

That odd, one of the reasons I went to Windows was it's ease of use and word that Nokia (I thought the last using Symbian) was canning Symbian, instead putting Windows in their phones.

I believe they started with Windows last year, around October.

[Mr.Yuck]

I guess the majority of us reading this thread, those with smartphones and iphones, are trying to figure out why those with Windows phone have been getting a free ride and are now upset that GS is making the deal ever sweeter for Windows users by giving them free access to the API that everyone else has to pay for.

 

Before you jump on the $10 thing, no, that is not that much money for software and get over it since we paid the same however as new users come on they will have to pay while the dozen or so Windows phone new users that join over the next 4 or 5 years will have a free ride.

Huh? I don't understand your point. What free ride? Seriously, I really don't understand. To use the Geocaching app on iPhone and Android, you pay $10 right? That's what we did as Window Phone users, pay $10 dollars. Where is the free ride? Future users will have access to an app that is a lite version, just like iPhone's trial version, but with less access. Where is the free ride? I'm really trying to understand your logic. Maybe I'm missing something, let me know.

 

If I am reading the thread correctly, and quite frankly the logic is very convoluted, it reads like you were getting full PM access with your app whether or not you were actually a PM. If that is wrong, I apologize. Lines similar to this (from you) is where the free ride comment originated; "All Windows Phone users should be able to pay the $10 and to have a fully functioning app now and in the future without having to become premium members."

 

That notwithstanding, Window phones simply to not have a significant market share for developers to pay it any serious attention. This may or may not factor into GS's decision, however when you have Symbian and Android siting at the top, followed by Blackberry and iPhone, I can't see a phone that does not rank in even the top 5 warranting any real resources. May not seem fair, but business works this way.

 

I've got one of these things, and the App. Obviously I'm a PM, but I do have a basic member sock puppet account I placed a few caches with a few years ago, and signed in with it after this thread was started. What I could do with it, is the same thing a basic member can do with the Android or Iphone apps, namely unlimited access to the listings. It appears this is going to be taken away from the WindowsPhone app users, and only them, not Iphone and Droid. Talking official Groundspeak apps of course, and those are the only 3.

[Pegasus86]

I'd just like to add that I am a WP7 user too, having bought the app a few days ago (for £8 or $12.67) before visiting the forums.

 

Baloo, your infomation is incorrect. WP7 users do not recieve premium caches if they are not premium members.

 

As I have noted within the first few days of use the app is buggy, which is annoying. GS oviously thought it worthwile to release the original app to people. I don't fully undersand the situation and did not recieve an e-mail, possibly because I bought the app after they were sent.

 

However, it seems that WP7 users will have to pay for another, new app which has decreased functionality over the original. If you want the normal functionality of the old app, you are required to be a premium member, a side effect of which will be being able to see premium caches.

 

Geocaching is a casual thing for me, hence I do not want to be a premium member and conviction to the hobby is low, therefor I am not willing to spend much on it. I am also a student with a limited buget (to the guy who said how can you afford a smartphone....a phone is pretty much essential these days and I pay £10.99 or $17 a month for 24 months for my phone and service.)

 

Also I expect an app to function without buggs and be patched a reasonable intervals and be usable for the entire device's life. You patch an app, not remove it and expect everyone to buy it again after for reduced functionality.

 

I'd also like to add that paying for an app when it is buggy, makes it not fit for purpose.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Pegasus86

[AZcachemeister]

Baloo, your information is incorrect distorted. WP7 users do not receive premium caches if they are not premium members.

 

Exactly.

Non-premium users of the ANDROID app get unlimited viewing of caches, but not PMO caches.

 

Non-premium users of the WIN 7 app (will eventually) get to view only three caches per day (and presumably no PMO caches). Paying the $30/annual PMO fee 'unlocks' both unlimited usage, AND PMO caches.

 

Quite a discrepancy.

 

I really can't see how the popularity of the platform has any bearing on the implementation of the app.

[+baloo&bd]

"when you have Symbian and Android siting at the top, followed by Blackberry and iPhone, I can't see a phone that does not rank in even the top 5 warranting any real resources."

 

That odd, one of the reasons I went to Windows was it's ease of use and word that Nokia (I thought the last using Symbian) was canning Symbian, instead putting Windows in their phones.

I believe they started with Windows last year, around October.

 

Sorry, I was looking at numbers worldwide. In the US, as of Jan 2012 according to comScore;

 

Android 48.6%

Apple 29.5%

RIM 15.2%

Microsoft 4.4%

Symbian 1.5%

 

So, to stay on topic, while it is unfortunate GS has decided not to spend more resources porting their old app over to their new schema (the API), it is understandable that someone would want to get 80 out of 100 people rather than cater to the 4 people.

 

My understanding is still that it is simply cutting off the free access to this point, which is how those most vocal in the thread are characterizing it. I understand not being able to or even wanting to pay the $30 a year, although the former seems somewhat weak when discussing smartphones and iphones, however we all make choices and the service is still available to you free via a PC and I would bet that this or another app would allow you to transfer needed information from the PC. Another alternative is to wait until your contract comes up and switch to a phone that is more easily supported.

[AZcachemeister]

Actually, the handwriting I see on the wall is that ALL smartphone users will eventually need to be PMO to get full functionality out of the Groundspeak apps. One can only wonder if that will include all apps that use the Groundspeak API (but I suspect it will).

 

As I see it, Groundspeak is 'spending resources' to update an app (that worked, and continues to work fine) to preclude full functionality to non-PMO users.

[Dulce-Joy]

I guess the majority of us reading this thread, those with smartphones and iphones, are trying to figure out why those with Windows phone have been getting a free ride and are now upset that GS is making the deal ever sweeter for Windows users by giving them free access to the API that everyone else has to pay for.

 

Before you jump on the $10 thing, no, that is not that much money for software and get over it since we paid the same however as new users come on they will have to pay while the dozen or so Windows phone new users that join over the next 4 or 5 years will have a free ride.

Huh? I don't understand your point. What free ride? Seriously, I really don't understand. To use the Geocaching app on iPhone and Android, you pay $10 right? That's what we did as Window Phone users, pay $10 dollars. Where is the free ride? Future users will have access to an app that is a lite version, just like iPhone's trial version, but with less access. Where is the free ride? I'm really trying to understand your logic. Maybe I'm missing something, let me know.

 

If I am reading the thread correctly, and quite frankly the logic is very convoluted, it reads like you were getting full PM access with your app whether or not you were actually a PM. If that is wrong, I apologize. Lines similar to this (from you) is where the free ride comment originated; "All Windows Phone users should be able to pay the $10 and to have a fully functioning app now and in the future without having to become premium members."

 

That notwithstanding, Window phones simply to not have a significant market share for developers to pay it any serious attention. This may or may not factor into GS's decision, however when you have Symbian and Android siting at the top, followed by Blackberry and iPhone, I can't see a phone that does not rank in even the top 5 warranting any real resources. May not seem fair, but business works this way.

 

No, as I was saying above, "...but if it becomes the case that Window Phone users are required to have a premium membership to use a fully functioning app without any restriction, aside from premium benefits..." We did not receive Premium Benefits on the app as a basic member, we only received the full use of the app, for which we paid. Thank you for explaining, know I understood what it was that you had thought.

[Dulce-Joy]

Actually, the handwriting I see on the wall is that ALL smartphone users will eventually need to be PMO to get full functionality out of the Groundspeak apps. One can only wonder if that will include all apps that use the Groundspeak API (but I suspect it will).

 

As I see it, Groundspeak is 'spending resources' to update an app (that worked, and continues to work fine) to preclude full functionality to non-PMO users.

Yeap. Exactly what AZcachemeister said.