A different language

[+ayrbrain]

I am planning to (hopefully) search for caches when on holiday overseas, when I look at caches online in that area a lot are in German or Spanish etc for the description. Is it possible to read it in English, have I missed a button/link to click on to translate it or is that not possible?

 

many thanks for any info

[+Davequal]

I use Google Chrome as a web browser. It asks if you want to translate a page to English. I am not sure if that would be available as a send tp GPS or in a PQ download.

[+DragonsWest]

If you have a wireless tablet or smartphone you should be able to copy and paste some of the description into an online translator.

 

Come to think of it ... it would be pretty spiff to have a tool for running a Pocket Query (PQ), description part, through a translator, so the descriptions for 500 or so caches loaded would be in a language of choice. Slight manglements of phrases aside that would be pretty useful for travel.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

If you have a wireless tablet or smartphone you should be able to copy and paste some of the description into an online translator.

 

Come to think of it ... it would be pretty spiff to have a tool for running a Pocket Query (PQ), description part, through a translator, so the descriptions for 500 or so caches loaded would be in a language of choice. Slight manglements of phrases aside that would be pretty useful for travel.

 

Theoretically, that would be fairly easy to do. Just iterate over the list of waypoints, pull out the short/long descriptions and send them to a translation service and replace the descriptions in the GPX for each cache as you go. So, I took a look at the Google translate API to see how easy it would be, and found the following on Google code page for the tranlate API.

 

Important: Google Translate API v2 is now available as a paid service only, and the number of requests your application can make per day is limited.

 

Sound familiar?

[+DragonsWest]

If you have a wireless tablet or smartphone you should be able to copy and paste some of the description into an online translator.

 

Come to think of it ... it would be pretty spiff to have a tool for running a Pocket Query (PQ), description part, through a translator, so the descriptions for 500 or so caches loaded would be in a language of choice. Slight manglements of phrases aside that would be pretty useful for travel.

 

Theoretically, that would be fairly easy to do. Just iterate over the list of waypoints, pull out the short/long descriptions and send them to a translation service and replace the descriptions in the GPX for each cache as you go. So, I took a look at the Google translate API to see how easy it would be, and found the following on Google code page for the tranlate API.

 

Important: Google Translate API v2 is now available as a paid service only, and the number of requests your application can make per day is limited.

 

Sound familiar?

 

Yep. Now they've nearly driven everyone else to the fringes they are tight-fisted. It's an old business practice.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

If you have a wireless tablet or smartphone you should be able to copy and paste some of the description into an online translator.

 

Come to think of it ... it would be pretty spiff to have a tool for running a Pocket Query (PQ), description part, through a translator, so the descriptions for 500 or so caches loaded would be in a language of choice. Slight manglements of phrases aside that would be pretty useful for travel.

 

Theoretically, that would be fairly easy to do. Just iterate over the list of waypoints, pull out the short/long descriptions and send them to a translation service and replace the descriptions in the GPX for each cache as you go. So, I took a look at the Google translate API to see how easy it would be, and found the following on Google code page for the tranlate API.

 

Important: Google Translate API v2 is now available as a paid service only, and the number of requests your application can make per day is limited.

 

Sound familiar?

 

Yep. Now they've nearly driven everyone else to the fringes they are tight-fisted. It's an old business practice.

 

I was thinking that doing a quick translate from a cache page that a nice way to do it would be as a browser bookmarklet. Turns out Google has already done it. http://translate.google.com/translate_buttons

[+OZ2CPU]

why not just encurage or even force all CO to write at least a short version in English !!

make a NEW rule !

I travel alot, and it really is a huge pain not to be able to understand simple hints or where to look,

sometimes we need to stop locals on the street and ask them to translate a hint phrase,

they say : your text read have a look 2 meters up and inside..

why do you ask about such wierd thing ?

[+ayrbrain]

Many thanks for all replies.

 

Yes it would be a good idea if CO's would/could write some of it in English if at all possible. Even looking at the logs for said caches are of course in another language

 

oh well, will need to ask the locals to read the hints as suggested and wait for their confused expressions

Thanks all

Edited March 13, 2012 by ayrbrain

[+Team Batpony]

why not just encurage or even force all CO to write at least a short version in English !!

make a NEW rule !

I travel alot, and it really is a huge pain not to be able to understand simple hints or where to look,

sometimes we need to stop locals on the street and ask them to translate a hint phrase,

they say : your text read have a look 2 meters up and inside..

why do you ask about such wierd thing ?

 

That is like asking everyone in the USA to write their descriptions in french, or another language! Simply silly! It is their country, so the cache is in their language!

[+niraD]

why not just encurage or even force all CO to write at least a short version in English !!

That is like asking everyone in the USA to write their descriptions in french, or another language!

Not really. A friend of mine regularly attends conferences outside the US, and has mentioned that English has become a sort of lingua franca (common language). It is widely used not because everyone speaks it as their first language (they don't), but because most people have learned it as a second (or third, or fourth,...) language.

[+OZ2CPU]

>That is like asking everyone in the USA to write their descriptions in french, or another language!

 

offcourse not.. all native English speaking CO's can just use English please !

it is like all over the WEB, if you want to sell or show something to a broader puplic,

like anyone in the whole world, then you simply make that web page in English..

if you cant understand that simple fact, you could be French ?

(that was a joke, darn could not resist it)

[+NYPaddleCacher]

why not just encurage or even force all CO to write at least a short version in English !!

That is like asking everyone in the USA to write their descriptions in french, or another language!

Not really. A friend of mine regularly attends conferences outside the US, and has mentioned that English has become a sort of lingua franca (common language). It is widely used not because everyone speaks it as their first language (they don't), but because most people have learned it as a second (or third, or fourth,...) language.

 

My experience has been the same. I've attended a couple of conferences in Beijing and everything was pretty much conducted in English. There were a few people spoke little or know English and gave talks in Mandarin that was translated into English. I've been to numerous meetings/conferences at FAO (Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations) and pretty much all business is conducted in English there as well. U.N. organization do have six official languages (and translators for each for meetings with a multi-national attendance, over that typically means translating from English to one of the official languages. Occasionally, some will use French or Spanish but I've never heard any other languages officially used any any of the meetings I've attended (although, since the FAO hq is located in Rome, you'll hear quite a bit of Italian spoken in the hallways between employees).

 

Most of us probably remember a high school requirement to take a foreign language course (it was two years for me) and the choice of languages usually included Spanish, French, German, and Latin. From what I've heard from numerous people is that high school students in many other countries also have a foreign language requirement and the only choice is English.

 

That said, I would support a requirement that all cache page listings must be in English (or have an English translation). Those that don't speak English well are just going to the same tool to translate from their native language into English as those reading the cache page.

[+CanadianRockies]

I travel alot, and it really is a huge pain not to be able to understand simple hints or where to look,

For most caches, the first place I look is at the posted coordinates. Often, I don't need any more help than that.

[+The red-haired witch]

That said, I would support a requirement that all cache page listings must be in English (or have an English translation). Those that don't speak English well are just going to the same tool to translate from their native language into English as those reading the cache page.

 

I think it is much better, if the cache owner is not able to write in English, to leave the cache description in whatever language he does understand. That way, if I don't understand that language, I can run it through a translation software myself when I want to read it. That way, I'll get to read a recent translation, not an old one, and as those translation software improve over time, that can make a large difference. The results of automated translation are much better now than they were 5 years ago.

 

In my opinion, those saying that every geocacher should know English because everyone going to international conferences do are totally ridiculous. Sure, most "international level" scientists and businesspeople know English, that doesn't mean that everyone who has access to geocaching.com and to a GPS receiver does .

 

Really, when travelling in non anglophone countries, you should expect that not everything is going to be in English. To me, the people complaining about that sound like those who want to travel to exotic destinations yet eat the same food they eat every day at home. Enjoy the flavour of those exotic caches, even if you have to work a bit for it

Edited March 13, 2012 by The red-haired witch

[+hzoi]

We cached in Germany for two and a half years, 95% or more of the caches we found were only in German, und mein Deutsch ist nicht sehr gut. Google translate got us close enough. It's more homework ahead of time, but if'n you want to find them, you gotta work for 'em.

 

You could limit yourself to earthcaches -- guidelines require that they be in English as well as the local language. And most of the older caches out there were published before there were non-US volunteer reviewers, so they're probably going to be in English, too.

[+AnnaMoritz]

For traditional caches most cachers here (in Vienna, Austria) are suspected to never read the description and hints only if needed. So you may find hints like '[descriptionless-caching]hinter Holztor / behind Door'.

 

Caches that address the most-visited sightseeing sites here have descriptions in german and english anyway. Quite a few (older) Multi-caches have english or english/german listings.

 

Apart from that at least the hints often have german and english versions. If not, most hints anyway only include words like: magnetic, above, tree, under stones, look on left side, you should be .. tall, black in brown, eye level, xx meters, bearing, behind or german words written on signs/plates near/in front of the cache. These words should be easy to look up.

 

Only a small percentage of all caches here has tourists as target group. When setting the attribute icon 'Tourist friendly' the site perhaps should suggest/ask the owner to provide english/other languages text too.

 

Maybe 'in old times' most international cachers were well-educated and polyglot, and were able (and had to be able) to play the game in english language only.

 

Now cachers are from all (social) classes and if 90% of all Austrians had English Lessions at school for at least 4 years that led nowhere near proficiency (the goal for compulsory school is A2/B1). Only estimated 30% of all 25-64 year old here had 8 years English lessions with goal B2/C1, but if not used for many years most of it gets lost.

 

For all (more sophisticated/demanding - and this is not necessarily reflected in listed difficulty) multi/unknown listings here where I tried out online translation the results were far from perfect. Very often the result doesn't make any sense at all. A lot of people here like to play with language, context, analogies, connotation so even many local cachers with average knowledge miss the point. Automatic translation makes the task almost impossible.

 

But you still can find a lot of tolerant, not language-dependent descriptions that stomach even bad translation.

 

With some preparation in advance:

 

If you are interested in a specific cache, why not mail the owner and ask nicely for translation, but keep in mind that there are not to few cachers that are incapable of providing useful descriptions in english (and even in their native language).

 

Or look out (in Groundspeak forums) for cachers of the area and ask them for advice.

Or post your wish for translation in the subforum of that country.

 

Or look out (in logs) for local cachers that always write their logs in english. Their caches pretty sure will have english description and they for sure will know who else has.

 

When caching in countries like Slovakia or Hungary I am very glad to encounter english descriptions, too.

Edited March 14, 2012 by AnnaMoritz

[+OZ2CPU]

The english part can be a very short and simple version,

I dont care if it's full of spell or grammer errors,

my GPS can not translate, and I can not copy text from it to a PC and so on,

I am on the road or in parks, NOT online, specially not on GPS data roaming !

that is often insanely expensive.

Even simple puzzle caches become a huge pain,

even if I try to solve them from home in good time before I travel there,

I am forced to use online translators, the English they generate is not perfect,

but all the special local know how often required for a puzzle, just made me give up over and over again.

I am sorry I am just a dumb cache beginner, and for me there is no easy way to travel and find cool puzzle caches

in non native English locations.

I am not complaining to much, we always have alot of fun anyway, we just focus ONLY on traditionals then.

just too bad that type is not the most popular in many areas, so there are many km beween them,

fine we just cover a bigger area then :-)

 

I just try to suggest to CO world wide, to try to make it all a little bit more turist friendly,

since this sport/hobby is specially attractive to travelers, since they see all the cool locations,

at least that is why we do it when we travel.

we even travel just to cache there, and to see what else happens while we are on the move.

 

Maybe we (or someone) can talk Groundspeak into making a new rule ?

or maybe just a suggestion/encurage people to add/use English ?

Edited March 14, 2012 by OZ2CPU

[+hzoi]

Maybe we (or someone) can talk Groundspeak into making a new rule ?

 

If anything, I think Groundspeak has been moving away from this by providing translations for the website. Up until a couple years ago, the site was available in English only, so even though cache owners could publish cache descriptions in other languages, they still needed to have at least a working knowlefdge of English to navigate the site. But now English is but one of 15 languages available, and I have no doubt that more versions will be added over time.

 

I was really glad to see that all the caches in Japan (or at least all the caches we researched) had both English and Japanese descriptions, because as bad as my German is, my limited grasp plus cognates and context were enough to get us by after a while. But put it in another alphabet, and I'd be lost. I'm not learning kanji, or Korean, or Cyrillic for a vacation. (Heck, I'm not even sure I'd want to learn anything other than spoken Japanese even if we got stationed there, as unlikely as that is.)

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

I am forced to use online translators, the English they generate is not perfect,

but all the special local know how often required for a puzzle, just made me give up over and over again.

I am sorry I am just a dumb cache beginner, and for me there is no easy way to travel and find cool puzzle caches

in non native English locations.

 

If GS had a rule that all cache listings must include English translations, what do you suppose the impact would be on cool puzzle caches in non-native English locations?

 

Currently, if you want to try and solve a puzzle cache written in a language other than English you'll probably have to use translation service. If non-english speaking cacher want's to create a cool puzzle cache, and they're required to include an English translation, they're most likely going to use the *same* translation service to produce an English version. In the case, of a puzzle cache, where the text of the cache description is part of the puzzle, the English translation would probably not work for those trying to solve it. It would probably result in fewer cool puzzle caches.

[+Otis.Gore]

why not just encurage or even force all CO to write at least a short version in English !!

make a NEW rule !

 

Oh yeah, and while we're at it, why not replace all local food with hamburgers and force them to eat proper american food, so you'll know what you eat when you come to a foreign country.

Or even better, just force them to abandon their native languages and make them all speak english.

That would be way easier.

That is so incredibly arrogant.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Otis.Gore

[+Legochugglers]

why not just encurage or even force all CO to write at least a short version in English !!

make a NEW rule !

 

Oh yeah, and while we're at it, why not replace all local food with hamburgers and force them to eat proper american food, so you'll know what you eat when you come to a foreign country.

Or even better, just force them to abandon their native languages and make them all speak english.

That would be way easier.

That is so incredibly arrogant.

 

Have to agree with Otis on this one. It is incredibly arrogant to expect non-English speaking countries/caches to provide a translation (although I notice some do). Broaden your horizons and work it out! I have a TB working its way through Netherlands/Germany at the moment and I really enjoy working out the comments.

When holidaying in France and Spain I made a special effort to translate some listing pages myself before I travelled to make sure I was prepared. I like the way that some caching terms remain the same in every language (Les Muggles, Ein Muggles....).

[cezanne]

why not just encurage or even force all CO to write at least a short version in English !!

make a NEW rule !

 

Oh yeah, and while we're at it, why not replace all local food with hamburgers and force them to eat proper american food, so you'll know what you eat when you come to a foreign country.

Or even better, just force them to abandon their native languages and make them all speak english.

That would be way easier.

That is so incredibly arrogant.

 

Have to agree with Otis on this one. It is incredibly arrogant to expect non-English speaking countries/caches to provide a translation (although I notice some do). Broaden your horizons and work it out! I have a TB working its way through Netherlands/Germany at the moment and I really enjoy working out the comments.

When holidaying in France and Spain I made a special effort to translate some listing pages myself before I travelled to make sure I was prepared. I like the way that some caching terms remain the same in every language (Les Muggles, Ein Muggles....).

 

I do not agree at all with Otis.Gore. The reason for using English whenever possible is definitely not to make life more convenient for native speakers of English (regardless whether they come from the US, the UK, Austrialia or whatever), but to use the language which is most widely understood.

None of my caches could be done by relying on automatic translation. It makes a huge difference how complex a text is.

 

Note that neither OZ2CPU nor myself come from a country where English is a local language. Personally, I love the beauty of the French language, but English is much better suited to serve as language of international communication. I simply neither have the time nor the talent to learn Slovenian, Croatian, Hungarian, Albanian, Danish, Corean, Chinese, Swahili etc.

 

It is unbelievable how much money is invested into education in many European countries and how bad the results are. After four or even eight years of attending language lessons at school everyone needs to be able to communicate at least at some basic level. The reality is different and proves that a lot of the invested money is just wasted.

What many people remember from school can be taught in less than one month and that's really sad regardless of from which social group someone is coming.

 

BTW: Using English as language of geocaching worked quite well in Austria (and also in Denmark where OZ2CPU comes from) when I started geocaching back in 2002.

 

Cezanne

Edited March 19, 2012 by cezanne

[cezanne]

That said, I would support a requirement that all cache page listings must be in English (or have an English translation). Those that don't speak English well are just going to the same tool to translate from their native language into English as those reading the cache page.

 

I think it is much better, if the cache owner is not able to write in English, to leave the cache description in whatever language he does understand.

 

I agree, but note that a large proportion of cachers in Europe is well able to write in English and is just too lazy to do so.

I know the English of many local cachers and thus know what they could do if they wanted.

 

In my opinion, those saying that every geocacher should know English because everyone going to international conferences do are totally ridiculous. Sure, most "international level" scientists and businesspeople know English, that doesn't mean that everyone who has access to geocaching.com and to a GPS receiver does .

 

I would be already fine if everyone knowing English is giving it a try. I'm not talking about those who really do not know English.

 

BTW: In most European countries, four or even six years of English education at school are compulsory and many have learn English for eight or even more years.

 

Really, when travelling in non anglophone countries, you should expect that not everything is going to be in English. To me, the people complaining about that sound like those who want to travel to exotic destinations yet eat the same food they eat every day at home. Enjoy the flavour of those exotic caches, even if you have to work a bit for it

 

You are completely wrong. The wish for supplementary English cache descriptions has nothing to do with the wish to have everything in English. For example, I enjoy every moment when I'm able to listen to French as I love the sound of this language. I also try to communicate my wishes in French when I happen to be in France.

While enjoying exotic food is relatively simple, this is not true for learning many different languages. It does not pay off to learn a new language just for a visit of less than a week or for talking a few sentences to a person who has learnt English in school anyway.

 

Actually, even without travelling using English has become something of high importance within Europe also much below the level of people with university education due to the increased staff mobility. In a team composed of people with 10 different native languages, English will the smallest common denominator in many cases.

There are so many languages in Europe and the distances between the countries are often very small. This is also one of the reasons why several European countries are on the way to switch their entire study programs at master level (sometimes also below master level) from the local language to English.

 

Cezanne

Edited March 19, 2012 by cezanne

[AZcachemeister]

I think the issue is to have all listings include a description in SOME CERTAIN designated language...not necessarily English.

 

English may be the most convenient considering it seems to be fairly widespread.

 

Hell, make it Latin or even Klingon and we can all learn that and use it.

[+Otis.Gore]

If somebody creates a cache and does a cache description in english because he thinks a lot of international people will visit

his cache and he wants to give them a chance to read it without using a dictonary or translator, that is fine and nice of that said person.

But the idea to FORCE someone to write his cache description in english is just wrong.

Except from that, what about the things that cannot be translated?

I happen to speak german, english and hungarian and especially in hungarian, there are a lot of words that can only hardly be translated properly.

I strongly oppose forcing people to do anything...

[cezanne]

If somebody creates a cache and does a cache description in english because he thinks a lot of international people will visit

his cache and he wants to give them a chance to read it without using a dictonary or translator, that is fine and nice of that said person.

But the idea to FORCE someone to write his cache description in english is just wrong.

 

I do not want to force anyone to do anything. I just commented that the background behind wishing English descriptions is not arrogancy.

 

Except from that, what about the things that cannot be translated?

I happen to speak german, english and hungarian and especially in hungarian, there are a lot of words that can only hardly be translated properly.

I strongly oppose forcing people to do anything...

 

As I am not asking for a mandatory English version under all circumstances, this is not a real issue.

 

Hungarian is a good example where automatic translation works extremely bad such that it is almost impossible to do multi or mystery caches based on automatic translation. I even failed to use gc.hu years ago in a reasonable manner as I do not know Hungarian and do not have time to learn it.

 

I am very sad that the large majority of caches in Slovenia close to the Austrian border are provided in English (at least so far - a recent trend to Slovenian only descriptions has started there as well) while the large majority of caches in Austria close to the Slovenian border are available only in German, and guess what: The large majority of the cache owners is fluent in English - they are just too lazy to provide English descriptions, but do not hesitate to profit from the English descriptions in Slovenia. Among the Styrian geocachers hardly anyone speaks Slovenian (I do not either).

 

I do not think that the number of potential international visitors is the only relevant factor. In areas close to borders with countries with other languages, it should become again much more common to provide an English description if possible. It is a courtesy to the neighbours.

 

I have translated several quite complex Earthcaches into English, but this took place when it was still mandatory to provide an English version. Later on I have not received a single request for a translation and also those who are very proficient in writing about geology in English, decided to write only in German as it takes less effort and time for them.

 

That's what I do not appreciate and it is not related to forcing anyone to do anything. It is about what I would like to have .....

 

Cezanne

Edited March 19, 2012 by cezanne