Maintaining Someone Else's Cache

[+USMCGecko]

I attempted to find a similar topic and was unable to locate one. If you know a link for a similar topic, point me in the right direction.

 

I was curious on what everyone's thoughts were on fixing caches for people.

 

I had been hunting for a cache that was located in a wooded area behind a city park. When I found the cache it was a typical gladware container. It was missing the lid and the log was pulp. After some hunting I found the lid which seemed intact. The bottom of the container was still clear and the lid just had some Camo tape. I also found a few plastic animal figures that I assumed were swag items. The hint on the GC was fairly specific and I found it where it said it should be. I decided instead of just putting a "Needs Maintenance" Log, I would just do the maintenance while I was there. I carry a bag that has supplies, so I spray painted the bottom of the container with Flat Brown(which best matched the surrounding area), I put a new log and baggie in the cache and some of my swag that I had with me.

 

I logged that I found it and what maintenance work I had done on the Cache.

 

Approximately 3 weeks later I received an email from the cache owner who basically told me that it was HIS cache and if he wanted it repaired he would have done it. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong and I meant well. I had emailed him back and apologized and quoted a "needs Maintenance" log that had been posted 2 weeks prior. He never replied.

 

I am just curious if performing cache maintenance on someones cache(that is not yours) is acceptable or not?

 

Thanks

[+addisonbr]

Approximately 3 weeks later I received an email from the cache owner who basically told me that it was HIS cache and if he wanted it repaired he would have done it. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong and I meant well.

If it had been my cache, I'd have appreciated your efforts. I think most CO's would as well. (I'd draw a distinction here between true maintenance, which you performed, and a "Throwdown", which is the practice of leaving a replacement container, often of inferior materials such as a film canister, after failing to successfully locate a cache. That is less universally appreciated, if not outright disdained in some circles.)

 

But, some folks feel differently, for whatever reasons, and chafe at other people doing maintenance on their caches. I think you did the right thing in politely backing away from the situation. But moving forward, I think you can expect most people to appreciate your efforts.

[+GeoBain]

I'm a proponent of logging Needs Maintenance. If more people would just hold CO's accountable for the maintenance they agreed to when they hid the cache, perhaps we'd have fewer people hiding caches they don't intend to maintain.

 

But it's still a nice thing that you did. Where you stepped over the line was when you spray painted his container.

[+USMCGecko]

Where you stepped over the line was when you spray painted his container.

 

My reasoning behind that is, the area was clear of underbrush, it was basically a shady area with trees and dead leaves on the ground. The cache was basically in the open at the base of a tree, so I figured I would help it blend in a little better as it was easily seen. I figured it was tampered with by some kids.

[+GeoBain]

Where you stepped over the line was when you spray painted his container.

 

My reasoning behind that is, the area was clear of underbrush, it was basically a shady area with trees and dead leaves on the ground. The cache was basically in the open at the base of a tree, so I figured I would help it blend in a little better as it was easily seen. I figured it was tampered with by some kids.

 

I understand completely why you did it. And the thought was nice. But whenever you alter someone's container you have moved beyond maintaining the container into what some would classify as vandalizing the container.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think you had the best of intentions. But next time you may want to stick with just cleaning it up and putting in a dry log book.

[+USMCGecko]

But my Camo Paint skills are awesome!

[+DragonsWest]

I attempted to find a similar topic and was unable to locate one. If you know a link for a similar topic, point me in the right direction.

 

I was curious on what everyone's thoughts were on fixing caches for people.

 

I had been hunting for a cache that was located in a wooded area behind a city park. When I found the cache it was a typical gladware container. It was missing the lid and the log was pulp. After some hunting I found the lid which seemed intact. The bottom of the container was still clear and the lid just had some Camo tape. I also found a few plastic animal figures that I assumed were swag items. The hint on the GC was fairly specific and I found it where it said it should be. I decided instead of just putting a "Needs Maintenance" Log, I would just do the maintenance while I was there. I carry a bag that has supplies, so I spray painted the bottom of the container with Flat Brown(which best matched the surrounding area), I put a new log and baggie in the cache and some of my swag that I had with me.

 

I logged that I found it and what maintenance work I had done on the Cache.

 

Approximately 3 weeks later I received an email from the cache owner who basically told me that it was HIS cache and if he wanted it repaired he would have done it. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong and I meant well. I had emailed him back and apologized and quoted a "needs Maintenance" log that had been posted 2 weeks prior. He never replied.

 

I am just curious if performing cache maintenance on someones cache(that is not yours) is acceptable or not?

 

Thanks

 

I would have thanked you profusely. I'd also get out there and replace a Gladware container with something more suitable. Rather propriety treatment of one CO should not be taken as the global view.

 

It does warrant exercising common sense, but that develops with time and experience. What maintenance of others caches is considered going too far?

 

"Hi, found your crappy Gladware of soggy paper and grotty animal figures and replaced with a 50 cal. ammo box, painted in woodland camo, stocked with and assortment of swag from my pack" - would be a bit much.

 

Hi, found your cache with lid off and wet log, added a strip of Rite in Rain and a pen in a ziplock bag. Traded some new swag items for the ruined items for the benefit of future cachers and placed some natural cover to shelter it a little better from the elements" - would be about my speed.

Edited March 12, 2012 by DragonsWest

[+GeoBain]

Hi, found your cache with lid off and wet log, added a strip of Rite in Rain and a pen in a ziplock bag. Traded some new swag items for the ruined items for the benefit of future cachers and placed some natural cover to shelter it a little better from the elements" - would be about my speed.

 

Highlighting the use of natural cover while leaving out the use of the spray paint probably would have made it much more palatable.

[+CanadianRockies]

Where you stepped over the line was when you spray painted his container.

My reasoning behind that is, the area was clear of underbrush, it was basically a shady area with trees and dead leaves on the ground. The cache was basically in the open at the base of a tree, so I figured I would help it blend in a little better as it was easily seen. I figured it was tampered with by some kids.

Clearly, your heart was in the right place. Still, you also need to look at the situation from the cache owner's perspective.

 

Groundspeak encourages hiders to use transparent containers whenever possible. This reduces the likelihood that the cache will be mistaken for something dangerous and a bomb squad being called in.

 

Sometimes, it can be a tough judgment call between leaving a container transparent and minimizing the risk of someone accidentally finding a cache. Maybe there were leaves/bark/sticks nearby that could have helped hide the cache?

 

Another factor that could have weighed on the cache owner's mind is that some localities might fine cache owners when the bomb squad is called. If this is one such locality, then the owner might not have wanted to assume that risk. If the owner was unsure if their locality has such fines, then they might not have wanted to take the risk that it might be.

[+KoosKoos]

Hi, found your cache with lid off and wet log, added a strip of Rite in Rain and a pen in a ziplock bag. Traded some new swag items for the ruined items for the benefit of future cachers and placed some natural cover to shelter it a little better from the elements" - would be about my speed.

 

If I had stuff with me, this would be my approach as well. I don't always carry supplies with me, so in that case, I'd just log the needs maintenance.

 

Either way, I'd send a polite email directly to the cache owner to let them know that containers of that type don't tend to last too long and they might want to keep an eye on the cache and/or replace the container with something a little more sturdy.

[+StarBrand]

Caches need active owners. For a large variety of reasons (land owner issues, contact issues, etc).

 

The physical container is owned by the individual that placed it.

 

Having said that, I think many minor issues are just fine to correct. However, I strongly prefer that cache finders allow me to do any major maintenance items myself.

 

I know you acted out of kindness and respect and I would always be generally grateful for that, but I learn from my errors and issues so I prefer to deal with them myself.

[Trinity's Crew]

 

Clearly, your heart was in the right place. Still, you also need to look at the situation from the cache owner's perspective.

 

Groundspeak encourages hiders to use transparent containers whenever possible. This reduces the likelihood that the cache will be mistaken for something dangerous and a bomb squad being called in.

 

Sometimes, it can be a tough judgment call between leaving a container transparent and minimizing the risk of someone accidentally finding a cache. Maybe there were leaves/bark/sticks nearby that could have helped hide the cache?

 

Another factor that could have weighed on the cache owner's mind is that some localities might fine cache owners when the bomb squad is called. If this is one such locality, then the owner might not have wanted to assume that risk. If the owner was unsure if their locality has such fines, then they might not have wanted to take the risk that it might be.

 

You bring up some good points. I can tell you that the state parks in Maryland require explicit permission and also require the use of transparent containers.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Hi, found your cache with lid off and wet log, added a strip of Rite in Rain and a pen in a ziplock bag. Traded some new swag items for the ruined items for the benefit of future cachers and placed some natural cover to shelter it a little better from the elements" - would be about my speed.

 

Highlighting the use of natural cover while leaving out the use of the spray paint probably would have made it much more palatable.

 

I also think that spray painting the container went over the line and even adding natural cover *could* change the hide from what the CO intended. If the cache was rated very low on the difficulty scale adding natural camo or painting the contain might increase the difficulty for future finders. Granted, we're *supposed* to hide caches such that muggles won't inadvertently find them, but if someone "hides" a cache and rates it a 1 for difficulty, adding camo to a container could effectively make it a 2 or higher.

[+DragonsWest]

 

Clearly, your heart was in the right place. Still, you also need to look at the situation from the cache owner's perspective.

 

Groundspeak encourages hiders to use transparent containers whenever possible. This reduces the likelihood that the cache will be mistaken for something dangerous and a bomb squad being called in.

 

Sometimes, it can be a tough judgment call between leaving a container transparent and minimizing the risk of someone accidentally finding a cache. Maybe there were leaves/bark/sticks nearby that could have helped hide the cache?

 

Another factor that could have weighed on the cache owner's mind is that some localities might fine cache owners when the bomb squad is called. If this is one such locality, then the owner might not have wanted to assume that risk. If the owner was unsure if their locality has such fines, then they might not have wanted to take the risk that it might be.

 

You bring up some good points. I can tell you that the state parks in Maryland require explicit permission and also require the use of transparent containers.

 

Those transparent ammo boxes are so hard to come by ...

[+Mr.Benchmark]

Approximately 3 weeks later I received an email from the cache owner who basically told me that it was HIS cache and if he wanted it repaired he would have done it. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong and I meant well. I had emailed him back and apologized and quoted a "needs Maintenance" log that had been posted 2 weeks prior. He never replied.

 

I think you were very polite - with a response like that, all he really deserved in reply was "Your cache sucked, and I had to fix it - be better." This would be rude, it would be blunt, and it would also be the truth.

 

Worst case, you completely ruined his "amazing" camo, and he has to replace a gladware container. That could cost, what $4-$5? Oh the horror! I wonder if he actually visited the cache to see what you'd done, or just snapped at you on general principles, because no one is as awesome as he is?

 

Snarkiness aside, it is also possible he's had bad experiences with other well intentioned finders who've ruined something non-trivial that he hid that really needed someone who understood how the hide was supposed to work to repair it. Doesn't sound like that is the situation in THIS case - but perhaps it happened to him in the past. I can imagine someone burned like that would be senstive about this - and while unfair in this case, might yell at you because of past incidents.

 

This particular theme is featured in the "pet peeves as a finder thread".

 

Repainting someone's cache is kind of over the top though - if nothing else, almost nobody wants to see a cache that is superior to their original replacement after someone else has repaired it - egos can be bruised!

[+CanadianRockies]

Those transparent ammo boxes are so hard to come by ...

Maybe not as waterproof as we'd like, but they do exist.

[knowschad]

Seriously? The guy hides a GLADWARE container, and then complains about somebody fixing it up for him? Those are probably the cheesiest containers that can be used... certainly one of the worst. He should have visited it daily to make sure it hadn't cracked and been filled with rainwater. He should consider himself lucky.

[+USMCGecko]

Well, I didn't think about HAVING to put a cache in a clear container. I guess maybe I should carry some GC stickers with me too. This city park is near my house and I do not think they know what a geocache is let alone have requirements on them.

 

I feel if I come across a cache that is in need of repair and I have the means to repair it, then by all means. I guess I will continue doing what I do and take the good with the bad. I do carry a couple smaller Lock&Locks with me, but I limit using them unless absolutely necessary due to cost.

[+Totem Clan]

As a point I never maintain anyone's caches in the field but mine and don't expect anyone to do it for me. If it is a friend's cache and I know "exactly" what they WANT done I will do it after talking to them. COs are expected to maintain their caches. If they can't or won't then the cache need to be archived so a responsible cacher can place a cache there.

 

If the cache has a problem and you can't or haven't talked to the CO about it, post a NM.

[+Walts Hunting]

I have a hard time thinking you searched very hard. It is a regular subject and you will get the regular answers. Some say ok. Some say no. Others will give a long windy explanation of when it should be done.

 

the appropriate thing is to do a NM or NA log.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Walts Hunting

[+USMCGecko]

I have a hard time thinking you searched very hard. It is a regular subject and you will get the regular answers. Some say ok. Some say no. Others will give a long windy explanation of when it should be done.

 

the appropriate thing is to do a NM or NA log.

 

I can assure you that I looked, but after typing in several variations of what I thought would be included in a post that covered the topic to no avail. Hence the reason I started the post asking for someone to point me in the right direction if the topic already exist. But thank you for doubting my character, providing a long windy reason THEN giving the short answer, which in fact is opinion. Thanks for your assistance.

[+terrkan78]

Maybe I could understand the CO reacting like this if you had painted over some really cool camo on his ammo can or something, but gladware? Sheesh. The CO should have thanked you profusely.

 

Side note: I have an ammo can out there with no camo on it (because I suck at that). Could you come find it and paint it up??? I'll even hide the paint nearby :D

[+jtbrady01]

Here's my thought. If I know the cacher and I know they do maintain their caches replacing a baggie here or there for them isn't a big deal. Now we have cachers who have picked up and completely moved out of the area and keep asking for assistance or hope others will perform maintenance. As long as we keep enabling them they will never do the maintenance for themselves or archive caches that they can't do maintenance on since they live thousands of miles away. Truthfully I say post the NM log and let the owner do it.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I'm impressed that you had a can of spray paint with you!!

 

If that was my cache, I would have thanked you profusely. When you do things like this, I think it's all about knowing the cache owners in your area. Some cache owners take their responsibilities very seriously and will get out within weeks to fix up their caches. 2 weeks is not really a long time to wait for a maintenance visit, especially if it's a long way to get there.

 

However, while I do fix caches up from time to time, primarily it is the responsibility of the CO. I used to add new logbooks and swag but I've stopped that now. It can get expensive fast and it's not your job and it does encourage laziness.

 

What I would have done in such a situation was 1) clean cache and swag up 2) reunite with lid 3) replace where I thought it should be as per the hint. Post a Needs Maintenance re needing a new logbook. Really, the Gladware needs to go. If I was so organized to have a new logbook with me and I knew the cache owner and thought they would appreciate it, I would put one in. I don't think I would spray paint the container. Having said that, if I had a cache where the spray paint was wearing off and someone re-spray-painted it for me, I'd be extremely appreciative.

[AZcachemeister]

I attempted to find a similar topic and was unable to locate one. If you know a link for a similar topic, point me in the right direction.

 

I was curious on what everyone's thoughts were on fixing caches for people.

 

I had been hunting for a cache that was located in a wooded area behind a city park. When I found the cache it was a typical gladware container. It was missing the lid and the log was pulp. After some hunting I found the lid which seemed intact. The bottom of the container was still clear and the lid just had some Camo tape. I also found a few plastic animal figures that I assumed were swag items. The hint on the GC was fairly specific and I found it where it said it should be. I decided instead of just putting a "Needs Maintenance" Log, I would just do the maintenance while I was there. I carry a bag that has supplies, so I spray painted the bottom of the container with Flat Brown(which best matched the surrounding area), I put a new log and baggie in the cache and some of my swag that I had with me.

 

I logged that I found it and what maintenance work I had done on the Cache.

 

Approximately 3 weeks later I received an email from the cache owner who basically told me that it was HIS cache and if he wanted it repaired he would have done it. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong and I meant well. I had emailed him back and apologized and quoted a "needs Maintenance" log that had been posted 2 weeks prior. He never replied.

 

I am just curious if performing cache maintenance on someones cache(that is not yours) is acceptable or not?

 

Thanks

 

No good deed goes un-punished.

The CO was probably disappointed in himself for not fixing his own cache before you did it for him.

Most CO's welcome a little help, as needed.

You did nothing wrong, and you should continue to do the same in the future (except with that particular Owner's caches).

[+Mr.Benchmark]

I used to add new logbooks and swag but I've stopped that now. It can get expensive fast and it's not your job and it does encourage laziness.

 

I actually do undestand this point of view - sometimes fixing the immediate problem doesn't fix the overall problem with a cache.

 

For example, on a micro-cache, if you add a new log to a cache with a full log, replacing the existing full log with some random, crumbled up piece of paper doesn't actually make things any better. In fact, when the next guy comes along and does the same thing, it just makes things worse, as now the cache will have two disintegrating, wadded up sheets of random paper in them. (If I do a replacement, I use rite in the rain paper, pre-printed and precut into a log sheet - hopefully this is an improvement.) If the problem is that the cache container is simply inadequate, replacing the log won't fix the issue, and stuffing the cache with whatever random paper you have on-hand is worse.

 

Likewise, if you fixup / replace a muggled container and restore it to its place, it's very possible that it will simply be muggled again, because the problem is that the container / hiding spot aren't adequate for the traffic in the area.

 

Still, it's very hard for me to walk by something where I could help and not do anything.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I think you were extremely kind! (A smidge overboard on the paint.) I would have thanked you profusely! But then again, I would never have hidden anything as cheap as Gladware. (What? About 25 cents each?) For $3 or $4, the CO could have bought a Lock and Lock. My theory is that if you hide such a cheap container, you should not expect it to last more than a few weeks. And I would not do any maintenance on it. I would have signed the log, and also logged NM.

Enjoy yourself, but don't give any more consideration to the cache than the CO did. (I.E. Don't waste your time or money on a cache that the CO didn't care very much about either.)

[+USMCGecko]

I guess my thoughts were more for the Cacher and not the Cache Owner. I was thinking what it felt like to come upon a worthless GC that was filled with wood pulp and dirt and how I could at least repair it prior to the next cacher coming upon it and finding it in the same condition.

 

The CO did not seem like it was in his list of things to do anytime soon.

[+USMCGecko]

My theory is that if you hide such a cheap container, you should not expect it to last more than a few weeks. And I would not do any maintenance on it. I would have signed the log, and also logged NM.

Enjoy yourself, but don't give any more consideration to the cache than the CO did. (I.E. Don't waste your time or money on a cache that the CO didn't care very much about either.)

 

Those are words to Cache by!

 

Next time I will do more research before repair work and make a judgement call. I'll either take the risk or say FIDO!

Edited March 12, 2012 by USMCGecko

[+Totem Clan]

I guess my thoughts were more for the Cacher and not the Cache Owner. I was thinking what it felt like to come upon a worthless GC that was filled with wood pulp and dirt and how I could at least repair it prior to the next cacher coming upon it and finding it in the same condition.

 

The CO did not seem like it was in his list of things to do anytime soon.

Again, the best thing you do for the next cacher is a NM if the CO is active or a NA if the CO is not.

[+T.D.M.22]

I would appreciate anyone doing that for me. However certain containers of mine are clear/un-cammo'd and clearly marked so painting would be a bit over the top. Personally I carry replacement logs for those that are full. That guy just seems the sour grapes type. If I was in your spot, I'd replace the cache with an ammo can-then see how ticked off he gets

[+USMCGecko]

I would appreciate anyone doing that for me. However certain containers of mine are clear/un-cammo'd and clearly marked so painting would be a bit over the top. Personally I carry replacement logs for those that are full. That guy just seems the sour grapes type. If I was in your spot, I'd replace the cache with an ammo can-then see how ticked off he gets

 

I been out for a while and this was something that happened before I left. I recently got back into it and always wondered where I went wrong. So I could avoid creating problems again. I've since looked up the listing and found that it was apparently archived. Maybe Ill make another one and make it right.

[hoosier guy]

Sounds to me like someone needed to do some fixing. I say good on you USMCG.

[+jellis]

I attempted to find a similar topic and was unable to locate one. If you know a link for a similar topic, point me in the right direction.

 

I was curious on what everyone's thoughts were on fixing caches for people.

 

I had been hunting for a cache that was located in a wooded area behind a city park. When I found the cache it was a typical gladware container. It was missing the lid and the log was pulp. After some hunting I found the lid which seemed intact. The bottom of the container was still clear and the lid just had some Camo tape. I also found a few plastic animal figures that I assumed were swag items. The hint on the GC was fairly specific and I found it where it said it should be. I decided instead of just putting a "Needs Maintenance" Log, I would just do the maintenance while I was there. I carry a bag that has supplies, so I spray painted the bottom of the container with Flat Brown(which best matched the surrounding area), I put a new log and baggie in the cache and some of my swag that I had with me.

 

I logged that I found it and what maintenance work I had done on the Cache.

 

Approximately 3 weeks later I received an email from the cache owner who basically told me that it was HIS cache and if he wanted it repaired he would have done it. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong and I meant well. I had emailed him back and apologized and quoted a "needs Maintenance" log that had been posted 2 weeks prior. He never replied.

 

I am just curious if performing cache maintenance on someones cache(that is not yours) is acceptable or not?

 

Thanks

 

I would have thanked you profusely. I'd also get out there and replace a Gladware container with something more suitable. Rather propriety treatment of one CO should not be taken as the global view.

 

It does warrant exercising common sense, but that develops with time and experience. What maintenance of others caches is considered going too far?

 

"Hi, found your crappy Gladware of soggy paper and grotty animal figures and replaced with a 50 cal. ammo box, painted in woodland camo, stocked with and assortment of swag from my pack" - would be a bit much.

 

Hi, found your cache with lid off and wet log, added a strip of Rite in Rain and a pen in a ziplock bag. Traded some new swag items for the ruined items for the benefit of future cachers and placed some natural cover to shelter it a little better from the elements" - would be about my speed.

DragonsWest and I are in the Geocaching of the Bay Area association.

Some of us we try to help out other cachers if their caches need help. The GBA even has a forum thread where the cachers praise and thank the cachers who have helped maintain other's caches. We try to consider ourselves a big family.

But at other times like when I don't have the supplies needed to repair or replace the cache, can't contact the CO while at the site or I don't know what the cache is, I will email the CO or put a NM on the cache.

[+DragonsWest]

Hi, found your cache with lid off and wet log, added a strip of Rite in Rain and a pen in a ziplock bag. Traded some new swag items for the ruined items for the benefit of future cachers and placed some natural cover to shelter it a little better from the elements" - would be about my speed.

 

Highlighting the use of natural cover while leaving out the use of the spray paint probably would have made it much more palatable.

 

I also think that spray painting the container went over the line and even adding natural cover *could* change the hide from what the CO intended. If the cache was rated very low on the difficulty scale adding natural camo or painting the contain might increase the difficulty for future finders. Granted, we're *supposed* to hide caches such that muggles won't inadvertently find them, but if someone "hides" a cache and rates it a 1 for difficulty, adding camo to a container could effectively make it a 2 or higher.

 

Generally what I mean by 'Natural Camo' is lay some tree bark over it. I wouldn't dream of burying a cache in leaves, dirt or a pile of logs.

 

"Hi, found your cache laying out in the open with water inside it - I drained the water and placed a fresh strip of Rite In Rain for logging and placed it under natural shelter (i.e. overhang from a log or stump, if within inches of hide, or picked up some nearby bark and layed it over the edges so water won't flow in through the crack in the lid)"

 

I have added a strip of camo duct-tape to broken container lids, when I have it in my pack, as the lid is going to leak again (or fall apart) without it. A NM or other note is usually sent to CO. Alas, the shoddy hides which often require such care from geocachers are left by people who very very enthusiastic about geocaching for a short period, made a few hides and haven't logged in for the past year. Cachers who are active tend to get out after their caches and keep them up to snuff.

[+USMCGecko]

What if instead of Paint, camo tape was put on it. Is that any different?