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Video: garmin etrex 20 sticky problem remains on 2.7 firmware :-(


ChefRd2000
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Bear in mind there are many of us (well at least one, me!) that have never experienced the 'sticky' issue, my Etrex 20 running 2.60 has behaved flawlessly straight out of the box :)

 

Sure wish I could get my hands on one of those etrex 20s that "behave flawlessly" for 30 minutes! Would answer a WHOLE lot of questions about this issue! (and Garmin ain't talkin)

 

Glad yours is working my friend! It is really frustrating.

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Update to the sticky saga... How 2.70 looks vs 2 other gps units.

 

Great video and it is also nice to see someone take time to help others. I have the solution,just pack all the sticky ones up and send them back for refunds,That will jar them into action.I know that $200+dollars buys alot better gps.

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Observed it on my 30 as well using 2.70 - not only that, overall accuracy seems to be MUCH worse than the eTrex H too. Not too bothered however as I don't do geocaching.

 

New untested, unripe chipset maybe?

Edited by tr_s
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Opposite to what I've found on my Etrex 20. With GPS and GLONASS enabled it seems far more accurate than my Etrex Legend H :)

 

This. ^

 

With my old blue legend next to the 20, the 20 has me closer to GZ than the legend.

 

Of course, the legend keeps working when the 20 sticks, but... <_<

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Goo...no GREAT news. I hope they can get this worked out.

 

Have been contacted by several people telling me that Garmin support told them that the sticky issue in the above video has been fixed. It has NOT been fixed! But, they tell ME not to return my unit because they have seen this problem " in many cases" and are working on it. Grrrrrrrrrrr

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Goo...no GREAT news. I hope they can get this worked out.

 

Have been contacted by several people telling me that Garmin support told them that the sticky issue in the above video has been fixed. It has NOT been fixed! But, they tell ME not to return my unit because they have seen this problem " in many cases" and are working on it. Grrrrrrrrrrr

 

I wonder if this is serial number related. Mine has NEVER stuck. It thought about going nuts in this one area one time. I have since made adjustments. It works as well now as it did the day I bought it.

 

Now that might make sense....

Spelling errors

 

 

Edited by Davequal
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It really does, or did, exist Dave. I experienced it on both my 62s and my Oregon 450. However, before the update I was kind of able to work around it and never noticed it much. Since the update, it appears to be non-existent. I feel bad for ChefRd2000 who seems to have a unit that sounds like it should be replaced.

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I was wondering if anybody has suspected the antenna? I do know it has alot to do with reception since a gps is an receiver.All in all the better the antenna the better the reception of the receiver.A question for Garmin would be is the antenna in these new models properly TUNED to the new satellites{glonass}+ [gps] signals???? Just an thought,but,from what I read it may be the problem.

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It really does, or did, exist Dave. I experienced it on both my 62s and my Oregon 450. However, before the update I was kind of able to work around it and never noticed it much. Since the update, it appears to be non-existent. I feel bad for ChefRd2000 who seems to have a unit that sounds like it should be replaced.

 

OH I do not doubt it. I have seen it in his video.

 

The reason I say something about serial numbers, I bought mine the week it came out.. so it SHOULD be an early production number.

 

As I said mine thought about freaking out once.

 

 

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Update to the saga: called garmin support again today... The engineers looked into it and said " if you experience the device sticking at low speeds, speed up. Otherwise it will only update every 45 seconds". They will not refund my money, they will not exchange me to a different device... But if I want, I can return mine for someone else's returned device. Ugh. I guess they think this sticky problem is NOT a problem.

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Update to the saga: called garmin support again today... The engineers looked into it and said " if you experience the device sticking at low speeds, speed up. Otherwise it will only update every 45 seconds". They will not refund my money, they will not exchange me to a different device... But if I want, I can return mine for someone else's returned device. Ugh. I guess they think this sticky problem is NOT a problem.

The GPS radio chipset periodically sends the current position to the FW. The position has an error of up to thirty feet. If the FW gets a position that is 10 feet different from the previous position one second ago, what should the FW do? Walking speed of 3MPH is 4.4 feet per second. The FW could throw away the new point because it could be caused by position error while you are standing still. This ticks off people like you. The FW could keep the new point. If you are close to the cache the bearing will change and this ticks off the people who say the magnetic compass is erratic. I suspect the FW does averaging of the previous points. This kind of filtering takes time to fill in the history, which also ticks some people off. Maybe Garmin should admit the problem and allow people to adjust the time constant of the filter(assuming there is such a thing).
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Update to the saga: called garmin support again today... The engineers looked into it and said " if you experience the device sticking at low speeds, speed up. Otherwise it will only update every 45 seconds". They will not refund my money, they will not exchange me to a different device... But if I want, I can return mine for someone else's returned device. Ugh. I guess they think this sticky problem is NOT a problem.

The GPS radio chipset periodically sends the current position to the FW. The position has an error of up to thirty feet. If the FW gets a position that is 10 feet different from the previous position one second ago, what should the FW do? Walking speed of 3MPH is 4.4 feet per second. The FW could throw away the new point because it could be caused by position error while you are standing still. This ticks off people like you. The FW could keep the new point. If you are close to the cache the bearing will change and this ticks off the people who say the magnetic compass is erratic. I suspect the FW does averaging of the previous points. This kind of filtering takes time to fill in the history, which also ticks some people off. Maybe Garmin should admit the problem and allow people to adjust the time constant of the filter(assuming there is such a thing).

 

Boy... I don't know what the problem is with the 20... But it just doesn't work as well as many other devices for geocaching. And it's sad that a $50 geomate jr will zero out on a waypoint... And the etrex 20 under identical conditions is repeatedly 50 ft off. I hoped finding a way to replicate the issue, and demonstrate it clearly would help them fix it. But, they simply don't care. (or won't care if they don't get complaints as they say) So, I will simply find a device that works for me... And leave this one in the drawer. (Sad because I really like the 20 other than this issue) I am glad it works well for many of you! It's a great device.

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Update to the saga: called garmin support again today... The engineers looked into it and said " if you experience the device sticking at low speeds, speed up. Otherwise it will only update every 45 seconds". They will not refund my money, they will not exchange me to a different device... But if I want, I can return mine for someone else's returned device. Ugh. I guess they think this sticky problem is NOT a problem.

The GPS radio chipset periodically sends the current position to the FW. The position has an error of up to thirty feet. If the FW gets a position that is 10 feet different from the previous position one second ago, what should the FW do? Walking speed of 3MPH is 4.4 feet per second. The FW could throw away the new point because it could be caused by position error while you are standing still. This ticks off people like you. The FW could keep the new point. If you are close to the cache the bearing will change and this ticks off the people who say the magnetic compass is erratic. I suspect the FW does averaging of the previous points. This kind of filtering takes time to fill in the history, which also ticks some people off. Maybe Garmin should admit the problem and allow people to adjust the time constant of the filter(assuming there is such a thing).

 

Problem is that some people have reported "sticky behaviour" up to FIFTY METERS - this is very indicative of a fault, not simply a highly cranked filter.

As for filtering, I'd guess good GPSes use something more sophisticated than just an averaging filter.

 

Anyway, their other high sensitivity GPSes such as eTrex Vista-H do not show this behaviour. So why should a new top of the line model do.

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Update to the saga: called garmin support again today... The engineers looked into it and said " if you experience the device sticking at low speeds, speed up. Otherwise it will only update every 45 seconds". They will not refund my money, they will not exchange me to a different device... But if I want, I can return mine for someone else's returned device. Ugh. I guess they think this sticky problem is NOT a problem.

The GPS radio chipset periodically sends the current position to the FW. The position has an error of up to thirty feet. If the FW gets a position that is 10 feet different from the previous position one second ago, what should the FW do? Walking speed of 3MPH is 4.4 feet per second. The FW could throw away the new point because it could be caused by position error while you are standing still. This ticks off people like you. The FW could keep the new point. If you are close to the cache the bearing will change and this ticks off the people who say the magnetic compass is erratic. I suspect the FW does averaging of the previous points. This kind of filtering takes time to fill in the history, which also ticks some people off. Maybe Garmin should admit the problem and allow people to adjust the time constant of the filter(assuming there is such a thing).

I never had or observed the sticky problem on my 76CSx, but do see it frequently on my etrex 30.

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50 meters? Did you specifically mention the 50 meters?

 

I had them watch the video I linked above. If garmin feels that's acceptable for their new state of the art , glonass equipped, geocaching device.... Then I need to simply look for a different device. I did my part to make them aware... That's all I can do.

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I was going to get the Garmin etrex 20... should I still get it or would you recommend a different gps? I am pretty new to caching.

I've not seen the issue yet on my brand new etrex 20. But I haven't got a lot of practical use from it yet.

 

I'd look for some kind of correction via firmware update - at some point in time.

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Thanks for the help guys I will probably go with this.

 

You did your homework so you know what to look for when you buy it. The sticky issue doesn't seem to haunt everyone. (sussamb and I tried very hard to get his 20 to stick... It would not) If yours sticks, you can always return it as its new. ( I would return mine if I could ) Other than the sticky problem... It's a great gps. Let us know how yours works!

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Bought my second 30 today. Returned the first in December after it exhibited all the problems everyone has reported PLUS nearly every time I plugged it into my computer it showed 'disk' errors and would not start until I fixed them.

 

I am hopeful that this one is okay. If it sticks, back it goes, life is too short and Garmin support, once excellent, has gone to hell. Thankfully REI has a no questions asked return policy. Anytime. They sell on-line too. If you are the least bit concerned that you may get a lemon, buy there. (Full disclosure: I have no connection with REI other than years of satisfied buying.)

 

Hope to take this to the hills and woods on Sunday. I'll report back how it goes.

Edited by MotorBug
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Support also said this is not a reported problem... So it's not going to change anytime soon. ( guess we are preaching to the choir talking on this forum) I GIVE UP! I tried. Moving on to a different device. Thanks to all that chatted with me about this. Cheers!

Garmin has great marketing and paid reviewers and I can't help but think of this quote ....You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.”

― Abraham Lincoln

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life is too short and Garmin support, once excellent, has gone to hell.

 

Fully agree.

 

My legend and yellow etrex had no real software problems at all... no crashes or serious software issues.

 

Aside from the loosening-gook in the rubberband they just worked and worked over the years.

 

The 30? Discovering a new annoying bug every second day... It really needs a major revision to become a "complete product" in my opinion. But I like the form factor and think it has potential, given corrected software.

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Seriously you guys need to stop buying Garmin products until they can show they can make them better out of the box,this has turned into a game of they will build it and we will buy it, time after time,and the products never work as stated out of the box,what would you do if you went to Best Buy and bought a TV set that was not 100% functional...return it and buy a different one right,not wait for the bugs to be worked out by the software guys,thats just ridiculous,Garmin is probably working on their next batch of dud models already.

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Cached in the hills today under heavy tree cover and my new (2nd) 30 worked perfectly! :) It did not exhibit any 'sticky' issue and it seemed quite accurate when run side-by-side with my trusty 60CSx. Even had the opportunity to try out the Chirp function.

 

After I came home I re-discovered that it will not upload to MapSource, so updated Basecamp from beta and quickly came to the same conclusion as several months ago that it is a POS. :angry: Sorry to be crude, and I'm very willing to hear differently, but that it is. MapSource might not look pretty, but it works. Not so Basecamp. The 30 has not reported any disk errors as did the 1st one I had last December.

 

Many of my geocaching friends have the 62S and they all struggled with sticky and lock-up issues. One thing they found is that when loading a firmware update, delete all gpx files and restart before doing the update. Then restart again before adding back your gpx files. I did that and so far all is good with the 30. It might ever work if you are already on 2.7 on your 30. I'm assuming that you can reload the firmware but I haven't tried that.

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Coming in on Garmin's side my Etrex 20 did work fine 'straight out of the box', and IMHO is a great GPS for the money.

 

Basecamp ... like many I preferred Mapsource and stuck with it for a while, but eventually made the switch. I agree it's not initially as intuitive as Mapsource, but it's far far more capable and if you take some time to learn it then you'll wonder why you ever bothered with Mapsource :)

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Seriously you guys need to stop buying Garmin products until they can show they can make them better out of the box,this has turned into a game of they will build it and we will buy it, time after time,and the products never work as stated out of the box,what would you do if you went to Best Buy and bought a TV set that was not 100% functional...return it and buy a different one right,not wait for the bugs to be worked out by the software guys,thats just ridiculous,Garmin is probably working on their next batch of dud models already.

 

Indeed, if I had known what I now know about the 20/30 series I would never have bought it.

Saw some "lemon" reviews on Amazon before i bought it but those just seem to exist no matter how good the products are.

 

Would have returned it in a heartbeat for a refund right now as well but I became really busy with work during the first 14 days after purchase, and didn't have the time to really try it out to find out how many bugs it had... so, stuck with workarounds and waiting for software updates I guess.

 

Another brand next time.

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Funny how some think that there are 'many bugs' in the new Etrex series whereas some of us find they work just fine :)

 

I think one 'bug' you identified was that a search for POIs searches ALL maps, not just those that are enabled. To me that's a 'feature' that I like; if I'm searching for a POI and it's not in my currently selected mapset it sure is handy that it pops up if it exists in another (disabled) mapset.

 

Sure there are some 'bugs' in Garmin GPS, as there are in any GPS, or indeed any PC program etc etc. Sometimes I think we forget just exactly how far technology has come ... we get the ability to do things with our GPS that we could only have dreamt about not that long ago.

 

Overall I'd rather be with my GPS than without it :)

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I think one 'bug' you identified was that a search for POIs searches ALL maps, not just those that are enabled. To me that's a 'feature' that I like; if I'm searching for a POI and it's not in my currently selected mapset it sure is handy that it pops up if it exists in another (disabled) mapset.

 

 

Alright, but that's not really one of the more serious bugs.

 

However, I think the words "disabled" and "enabled" as far as mapsets go are quite unambiguous, and the choice of words in this case then just plainly wrong. If a mapset is "disabled" then it for sure should not be cared for at all! They'll have to change the wording to "Not visible" or similar if it's gonna work this way.

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What would you call a 'serious' bug?

 

Aside from the 'sticky issue' which seems to aflict some more than others (I've never seen it) I've seen no real moan about 'serious' bugs? Sure, some people have the odd problem here and there but often that's down to 'user error or inexperience' rather than a 'bug'.

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Funny how some think that there are 'many bugs' in the new Etrex series whereas some of us find they work just fine :)

 

I think one 'bug' you identified was that a search for POIs searches ALL maps, not just those that are enabled. To me that's a 'feature' that I like; if I'm searching for a POI and it's not in my currently selected mapset it sure is handy that it pops up if it exists in another (disabled) mapset.

 

Sure there are some 'bugs' in Garmin GPS, as there are in any GPS, or indeed any PC program etc etc. Sometimes I think we forget just exactly how far technology has come ... we get the ability to do things with our GPS that we could only have dreamt about not that long ago.

 

Overall I'd rather be with my GPS than without it :)

 

Alright my friend... Time to admit it to us. You "work" for garmin pr... Don't you??? ;-) Just kidding, but if I was garmin, I would throw you a few freebies!

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What would you call a 'serious' bug?

 

Aside from the 'sticky issue' which seems to aflict some more than others (I've never seen it) I've seen no real moan about 'serious' bugs? Sure, some people have the odd problem here and there but often that's down to 'user error or inexperience' rather than a 'bug'.

 

I have a huge list of things on the device I would change if given the chance. But in almost every case I wouldn't call those bugs... Just really bad software design. Just the sticky issue is a bug for me. I have found a workaround for everything else.

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