Video: garmin etrex 20 sticky problem remains on 2.7 firmware :-(

March 11, 2012

Update to the sticky saga... How 2.70 looks vs 2 other gps units.

2.6k · March 11, 2012

the video got stuck after 22 seconds, someone should complain to uTub

March 12, 2012

Good video,keep up the good work.I really was looking forward to upgrading my 76csx to an Etrex 30,but not until this problem is fixed,odd how it plagues other models as well,perhaps a hardware issue.

March 12, 2012

Bear in mind there are many of us (well at least one, me!) that have never experienced the 'sticky' issue, my Etrex 20 running 2.60 has behaved flawlessly straight out of the box

Sure wish I could get my hands on one of those etrex 20s that "behave flawlessly" for 30 minutes! Would answer a WHOLE lot of questions about this issue! (and Garmin ain't talkin)

Glad yours is working my friend! It is really frustrating.

March 12, 2012

I noticed it yesterday with 2.70 on a '20. Not as bad as it was, but definitely still there. Only needed two restarts for 6 caches as opposed to 10.

Getting there.

March 12, 2012

I've seen the "sticky" a couple of times since updating to 2.70, and always under cover. But it's much, much improved.

March 12, 2012

Update to the sticky saga... How 2.70 looks vs 2 other gps units.

Great video and it is also nice to see someone take time to help others. I have the solution,just pack all the sticky ones up and send them back for refunds,That will jar them into action.I know that $200+dollars buys alot better gps.

2.6k · March 12, 2012

The new firmware for the Oregon 450 and 62S has almost eliminated the " sticky " in our units but it has resulted in a much more sensitive unit with bouncing pointer ,etc.....hard to say which is worse. Maybe a future upgrade will smooth it out some.

March 12, 2012

Observed it on my 30 as well using 2.70 - not only that, overall accuracy seems to be MUCH worse than the eTrex H too. Not too bothered however as I don't do geocaching.

New untested, unripe chipset maybe?

Edited March 12, 2012 by tr_s

March 12, 2012

Opposite to what I've found on my Etrex 20. With GPS and GLONASS enabled it seems far more accurate than my Etrex Legend H

This. ^

With my old blue legend next to the 20, the 20 has me closer to GZ than the legend.

Of course, the legend keeps working when the 20 sticks, but... <_<

March 13, 2012

Might be interesting to do a survey of serial numbers to specific model,to see if any patterns are obvious

March 13, 2012

Since updating firmware we had no problems until yesterday. Heavy tree cover and, although it didn't seem sticky, it did get me 30m from one cache (which has been there ages with nobody reporting bad coords) A reboot brought it back into line. glonaas off.

March 14, 2012

Update: with no reply to my emails, tried the phone today. The support guy actually watched the video when we were on the phone! No answers... But it's a start! :-)

March 14, 2012

Goo...no GREAT news. I hope they can get this worked out.

March 25, 2012

Goo...no GREAT news. I hope they can get this worked out.

Have been contacted by several people telling me that Garmin support told them that the sticky issue in the above video has been fixed. It has NOT been fixed! But, they tell ME not to return my unit because they have seen this problem " in many cases" and are working on it. Grrrrrrrrrrr

March 25, 2012

Goo...no GREAT news. I hope they can get this worked out.

Have been contacted by several people telling me that Garmin support told them that the sticky issue in the above video has been fixed. It has NOT been fixed! But, they tell ME not to return my unit because they have seen this problem " in many cases" and are working on it. Grrrrrrrrrrr

I wonder if this is serial number related. Mine has NEVER stuck. It thought about going nuts in this one area one time. I have since made adjustments. It works as well now as it did the day I bought it.

Now that might make sense....

Spelling errors

Edited March 25, 2012 by Davequal

1.1k · March 25, 2012

It really does, or did, exist Dave. I experienced it on both my 62s and my Oregon 450. However, before the update I was kind of able to work around it and never noticed it much. Since the update, it appears to be non-existent. I feel bad for ChefRd2000 who seems to have a unit that sounds like it should be replaced.

March 25, 2012

I was wondering if anybody has suspected the antenna? I do know it has alot to do with reception since a gps is an receiver.All in all the better the antenna the better the reception of the receiver.A question for Garmin would be is the antenna in these new models properly TUNED to the new satellites{glonass}+ [gps] signals???? Just an thought,but,from what I read it may be the problem.

March 25, 2012

It really does, or did, exist Dave. I experienced it on both my 62s and my Oregon 450. However, before the update I was kind of able to work around it and never noticed it much. Since the update, it appears to be non-existent. I feel bad for ChefRd2000 who seems to have a unit that sounds like it should be replaced.

OH I do not doubt it. I have seen it in his video.

The reason I say something about serial numbers, I bought mine the week it came out.. so it SHOULD be an early production number.

As I said mine thought about freaking out once.

March 26, 2012

Update to the saga: called garmin support again today... The engineers looked into it and said " if you experience the device sticking at low speeds, speed up. Otherwise it will only update every 45 seconds". They will not refund my money, they will not exchange me to a different device... But if I want, I can return mine for someone else's returned device. Ugh. I guess they think this sticky problem is NOT a problem.

March 26, 2012

Support also said this is not a reported problem... So it's not going to change anytime soon. ( guess we are preaching to the choir talking on this forum) I GIVE UP! I tried. Moving on to a different device. Thanks to all that chatted with me about this. Cheers!

March 26, 2012

Update to the saga: called garmin support again today... The engineers looked into it and said " if you experience the device sticking at low speeds, speed up. Otherwise it will only update every 45 seconds". They will not refund my money, they will not exchange me to a different device... But if I want, I can return mine for someone else's returned device. Ugh. I guess they think this sticky problem is NOT a problem.

The GPS radio chipset periodically sends the current position to the FW. The position has an error of up to thirty feet. If the FW gets a position that is 10 feet different from the previous position one second ago, what should the FW do? Walking speed of 3MPH is 4.4 feet per second. The FW could throw away the new point because it could be caused by position error while you are standing still. This ticks off people like you. The FW could keep the new point. If you are close to the cache the bearing will change and this ticks off the people who say the magnetic compass is erratic. I suspect the FW does averaging of the previous points. This kind of filtering takes time to fill in the history, which also ticks some people off. Maybe Garmin should admit the problem and allow people to adjust the time constant of the filter(assuming there is such a thing).

March 26, 2012

Update to the saga: called garmin support again today... The engineers looked into it and said " if you experience the device sticking at low speeds, speed up. Otherwise it will only update every 45 seconds". They will not refund my money, they will not exchange me to a different device... But if I want, I can return mine for someone else's returned device. Ugh. I guess they think this sticky problem is NOT a problem.

The GPS radio chipset periodically sends the current position to the FW. The position has an error of up to thirty feet. If the FW gets a position that is 10 feet different from the previous position one second ago, what should the FW do? Walking speed of 3MPH is 4.4 feet per second. The FW could throw away the new point because it could be caused by position error while you are standing still. This ticks off people like you. The FW could keep the new point. If you are close to the cache the bearing will change and this ticks off the people who say the magnetic compass is erratic. I suspect the FW does averaging of the previous points. This kind of filtering takes time to fill in the history, which also ticks some people off. Maybe Garmin should admit the problem and allow people to adjust the time constant of the filter(assuming there is such a thing).

Boy... I don't know what the problem is with the 20... But it just doesn't work as well as many other devices for geocaching. And it's sad that a $50 geomate jr will zero out on a waypoint... And the etrex 20 under identical conditions is repeatedly 50 ft off. I hoped finding a way to replicate the issue, and demonstrate it clearly would help them fix it. But, they simply don't care. (or won't care if they don't get complaints as they say) So, I will simply find a device that works for me... And leave this one in the drawer. (Sad because I really like the 20 other than this issue) I am glad it works well for many of you! It's a great device.

March 26, 2012

Update to the saga: called garmin support again today... The engineers looked into it and said " if you experience the device sticking at low speeds, speed up. Otherwise it will only update every 45 seconds". They will not refund my money, they will not exchange me to a different device... But if I want, I can return mine for someone else's returned device. Ugh. I guess they think this sticky problem is NOT a problem.

The GPS radio chipset periodically sends the current position to the FW. The position has an error of up to thirty feet. If the FW gets a position that is 10 feet different from the previous position one second ago, what should the FW do? Walking speed of 3MPH is 4.4 feet per second. The FW could throw away the new point because it could be caused by position error while you are standing still. This ticks off people like you. The FW could keep the new point. If you are close to the cache the bearing will change and this ticks off the people who say the magnetic compass is erratic. I suspect the FW does averaging of the previous points. This kind of filtering takes time to fill in the history, which also ticks some people off. Maybe Garmin should admit the problem and allow people to adjust the time constant of the filter(assuming there is such a thing).

Problem is that some people have reported "sticky behaviour" up to FIFTY METERS - this is very indicative of a fault, not simply a highly cranked filter.

As for filtering, I'd guess good GPSes use something more sophisticated than just an averaging filter.

Anyway, their other high sensitivity GPSes such as eTrex Vista-H do not show this behaviour. So why should a new top of the line model do.

8.3k · March 26, 2012

Update to the saga: called garmin support again today... The engineers looked into it and said " if you experience the device sticking at low speeds, speed up. Otherwise it will only update every 45 seconds". They will not refund my money, they will not exchange me to a different device... But if I want, I can return mine for someone else's returned device. Ugh. I guess they think this sticky problem is NOT a problem.

The GPS radio chipset periodically sends the current position to the FW. The position has an error of up to thirty feet. If the FW gets a position that is 10 feet different from the previous position one second ago, what should the FW do? Walking speed of 3MPH is 4.4 feet per second. The FW could throw away the new point because it could be caused by position error while you are standing still. This ticks off people like you. The FW could keep the new point. If you are close to the cache the bearing will change and this ticks off the people who say the magnetic compass is erratic. I suspect the FW does averaging of the previous points. This kind of filtering takes time to fill in the history, which also ticks some people off. Maybe Garmin should admit the problem and allow people to adjust the time constant of the filter(assuming there is such a thing).

I never had or observed the sticky problem on my 76CSx, but do see it frequently on my etrex 30.

March 27, 2012

50 meters? I was was talking about something entirely different. Sorry about that. Sounds like the tech was annoyed with a similar known limitation like me. Did you specifically mention the 50 meters?

March 27, 2012

50 meters? Did you specifically mention the 50 meters?

I had them watch the video I linked above. If garmin feels that's acceptable for their new state of the art , glonass equipped, geocaching device.... Then I need to simply look for a different device. I did my part to make them aware... That's all I can do.

March 27, 2012

I was going to get the Garmin etrex 20... should I still get it or would you recommend a different gps? I am pretty new to caching.

18.9k · March 27, 2012

I was going to get the Garmin etrex 20... should I still get it or would you recommend a different gps? I am pretty new to caching.

I've not seen the issue yet on my brand new etrex 20. But I haven't got a lot of practical use from it yet.

I'd look for some kind of correction via firmware update - at some point in time.

March 28, 2012

I was going to get the Garmin etrex 20... should I still get it or would you recommend a different gps? I am pretty new to caching.

I would recommend it to anyone. The issue will be sorted out.

March 28, 2012

I'd also recommend it, it's generally a great device, when it goes sticky it's pretty easy to spot though since 2.70 Its very, very rare.

March 28, 2012

Thanks for the help guys I will probably go with this.

March 28, 2012

Thanks for the help guys I will probably go with this.

You did your homework so you know what to look for when you buy it. The sticky issue doesn't seem to haunt everyone. (sussamb and I tried very hard to get his 20 to stick... It would not) If yours sticks, you can always return it as its new. ( I would return mine if I could ) Other than the sticky problem... It's a great gps. Let us know how yours works!

March 31, 2012

Bought my second 30 today. Returned the first in December after it exhibited all the problems everyone has reported PLUS nearly every time I plugged it into my computer it showed 'disk' errors and would not start until I fixed them.

I am hopeful that this one is okay. If it sticks, back it goes, life is too short and Garmin support, once excellent, has gone to hell. Thankfully REI has a no questions asked return policy. Anytime. They sell on-line too. If you are the least bit concerned that you may get a lemon, buy there. (Full disclosure: I have no connection with REI other than years of satisfied buying.)

Hope to take this to the hills and woods on Sunday. I'll report back how it goes.

Edited March 31, 2012 by MotorBug

April 1, 2012

Support also said this is not a reported problem... So it's not going to change anytime soon. ( guess we are preaching to the choir talking on this forum) I GIVE UP! I tried. Moving on to a different device. Thanks to all that chatted with me about this. Cheers!

Garmin has great marketing and paid reviewers and I can't help but think of this quote ....You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.”

― Abraham Lincoln

April 1, 2012

life is too short and Garmin support, once excellent, has gone to hell.

Fully agree.

My legend and yellow etrex had no real software problems at all... no crashes or serious software issues.

Aside from the loosening-gook in the rubberband they just worked and worked over the years.

The 30? Discovering a new annoying bug every second day... It really needs a major revision to become a "complete product" in my opinion. But I like the form factor and think it has potential, given corrected software.

April 2, 2012

Seriously you guys need to stop buying Garmin products until they can show they can make them better out of the box,this has turned into a game of they will build it and we will buy it, time after time,and the products never work as stated out of the box,what would you do if you went to Best Buy and bought a TV set that was not 100% functional...return it and buy a different one right,not wait for the bugs to be worked out by the software guys,thats just ridiculous,Garmin is probably working on their next batch of dud models already.

April 2, 2012

Cached in the hills today under heavy tree cover and my new (2nd) 30 worked perfectly! It did not exhibit any 'sticky' issue and it seemed quite accurate when run side-by-side with my trusty 60CSx. Even had the opportunity to try out the Chirp function.

After I came home I re-discovered that it will not upload to MapSource, so updated Basecamp from beta and quickly came to the same conclusion as several months ago that it is a POS. :angry: Sorry to be crude, and I'm very willing to hear differently, but that it is. MapSource might not look pretty, but it works. Not so Basecamp. The 30 has not reported any disk errors as did the 1st one I had last December.

Many of my geocaching friends have the 62S and they all struggled with sticky and lock-up issues. One thing they found is that when loading a firmware update, delete all gpx files and restart before doing the update. Then restart again before adding back your gpx files. I did that and so far all is good with the 30. It might ever work if you are already on 2.7 on your 30. I'm assuming that you can reload the firmware but I haven't tried that.

April 2, 2012

Seriously you guys need to stop buying Garmin products until they can show they can make them better out of the box,this has turned into a game of they will build it and we will buy it, time after time,and the products never work as stated out of the box,what would you do if you went to Best Buy and bought a TV set that was not 100% functional...return it and buy a different one right,not wait for the bugs to be worked out by the software guys,thats just ridiculous,Garmin is probably working on their next batch of dud models already.

Indeed, if I had known what I now know about the 20/30 series I would never have bought it.

Saw some "lemon" reviews on Amazon before i bought it but those just seem to exist no matter how good the products are.

Would have returned it in a heartbeat for a refund right now as well but I became really busy with work during the first 14 days after purchase, and didn't have the time to really try it out to find out how many bugs it had... so, stuck with workarounds and waiting for software updates I guess.

Another brand next time.

April 2, 2012

I think one 'bug' you identified was that a search for POIs searches ALL maps, not just those that are enabled. To me that's a 'feature' that I like; if I'm searching for a POI and it's not in my currently selected mapset it sure is handy that it pops up if it exists in another (disabled) mapset.

Alright, but that's not really one of the more serious bugs.

However, I think the words "disabled" and "enabled" as far as mapsets go are quite unambiguous, and the choice of words in this case then just plainly wrong. If a mapset is "disabled" then it for sure should not be cared for at all! They'll have to change the wording to "Not visible" or similar if it's gonna work this way.

April 2, 2012

Funny how some think that there are 'many bugs' in the new Etrex series whereas some of us find they work just fine

I think one 'bug' you identified was that a search for POIs searches ALL maps, not just those that are enabled. To me that's a 'feature' that I like; if I'm searching for a POI and it's not in my currently selected mapset it sure is handy that it pops up if it exists in another (disabled) mapset.

Sure there are some 'bugs' in Garmin GPS, as there are in any GPS, or indeed any PC program etc etc. Sometimes I think we forget just exactly how far technology has come ... we get the ability to do things with our GPS that we could only have dreamt about not that long ago.

Overall I'd rather be with my GPS than without it

Alright my friend... Time to admit it to us. You "work" for garmin pr... Don't you??? ;-) Just kidding, but if I was garmin, I would throw you a few freebies!

April 2, 2012

What would you call a 'serious' bug?

Aside from the 'sticky issue' which seems to aflict some more than others (I've never seen it) I've seen no real moan about 'serious' bugs? Sure, some people have the odd problem here and there but often that's down to 'user error or inexperience' rather than a 'bug'.

I have a huge list of things on the device I would change if given the chance. But in almost every case I wouldn't call those bugs... Just really bad software design. Just the sticky issue is a bug for me. I have found a workaround for everything else.

April 2, 2012

Seems FIXED as of beta version 2.71 - try it out!

April 2, 2012

Wha? 2.71? Really?!

April 2, 2012

Oyes, see http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=5557

April 2, 2012

Wha? 2.71? Really?!

Well... Just look at that !

Changes made from version 2.70 to 2.71:

Improved GPS response at low speeds

They are gonna fix something that they said was fixed? I have a Mac so please give it a whirl and give feedback... Please! (Been hunting all day for a used gpsmap60... Maybe I should hold off a bit.)

April 2, 2012

Wha? 2.71? Really?!

They are gonna fix something that they said was fixed? I have a Mac so please give it a whirl and give feedback... Please! (Been hunting all day for a used gpsmap60... Maybe I should hold off a bit.)

Having a mac should not be a limitation - all you need to do is to write the update file to the Garmin folder in the device memory and reboot it.

I can send a link to it extracted if you want.

April 2, 2012

Ah, just now see that this info was previously posted but I will leave it as it is all in one place.

---------------------

2.71 beta released for the eTrex 20/30 http://is.gd/tZjW1Q

Change History

Changes made from version 2.70 to 2.71:

Improved GPS response at low speeds

Improved elevation data stored in track logs (etrex 30)

Fixed issue with distance to destination data field

Fixed occasional overlapping of data fields in the elevation application

Problems with this beta software may be reported to etrexBeta@garmin.com

Changes made from version 2.60 to 2.61:

Improved GPS response at low speeds

Maybe this time they got it right. I'm going to wait since I have only used my 30 once with 2.70. Please advise any results with 2.71 beta.

Edited April 2, 2012 by MotorBug

April 2, 2012

<snip>
Basecamp ... like many I preferred Mapsource and stuck with it for a while, but eventually made the switch. I agree it's not initially as intuitive as Mapsource, but it's far far more capable and if you take some time to learn it then you'll wonder why you ever bothered with Mapsource

Can you tell me how to process a track log in Basecamp? I just don't see how to do that. A friend who is much better at this stuff still uses MapSource with a work around. I haven't tried this yet with my 30:

A couple work arounds I use once I mount the 62s as a drive:

* Start up Basecamp and let it download the info off the 62s. I then export a GPX or GDB file of the 62s "All Data". That than can be used in Mapsource or in ExpertGPS. The tracks included.

or

* Go to the GPX directory on the 62s and just open the GPX files directly in Mapsource. I then save the data off locally. Been doing that anyway for years as I use the GPS tracks as a sort of diary of my wanderings.

The only thing I seem to loose with this is the data from the heart rate monitor. I don't use that all that often, so not a big miss. I don't get why Garmin is disconnected on Basecamp versus Mapsource functionality. Stupid.

April 2, 2012

Not sure what you mean by 'process a track log'?

See it, correct it, save points.

Correct as in join two segments if the GPS shuts off as my 60CSx often does.

Edited April 2, 2012 by MotorBug

Video: garmin etrex 20 sticky problem remains on 2.7 firmware :-(

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment