Geocaching in an airplane

[+lcandela123]

Saw this interesting video on www.wimp.com I'm trying this on my next flight.

 

http://www.wimp.com/gpsairplane/

[AZcachemeister]

Saw this interesting video on www.wimp.com I'm trying this on my next flight.

 

http://www.wimp.com/gpsairplane/

 

Be sure to check with the flight crew, some airlines don't allow GPS usage in-flight.

[majormajor42]

I have brought my Oregon GPSr (and the HCX before that) on airplanes before. Never had any problems at security (I see on the boards here that some countries like Cuba don't allow them, not that I am going to Cuba). I've turned it on discretely while in the air. My Oregon only seems to work when near a window. Impressed with how well the one in the video is working seemingly not near a window.

 

I turned on tracking once while we were doing laps in a holding pattern. I was very impressed with how precise the airplane's path was on the second lap it almost went straight over the same path as the first lap.

 

I've only done it a couple times. got my kicks. But don't do it anymore being that I never asked permission.

 

I love those entertainment systems in the seat backs that show the plane's position. If the seat next to me is empty I keep that one on the map while I watch movies and look out the window.

 

[+Glenn]

Still waiting for the Geocaching part.

[+Coldgears]

Still waiting for the Geocaching part.

Found it.

 

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I have brought my Oregon GPSr (and the HCX before that) on airplanes before. Never had any problems at security (I see on the boards here that some countries like Cuba don't allow them, not that I am going to Cuba). I've turned it on discretely while in the air. My Oregon only seems to work when near a window. Impressed with how well the one in the video is working seemingly not near a window.

 

I turned on tracking once while we were doing laps in a holding pattern. I was very impressed with how precise the airplane's path was on the second lap it almost went straight over the same path as the first lap.

 

I've only done it a couple times. got my kicks. But don't do it anymore being that I never asked permission.

 

I love those entertainment systems in the seat backs that show the plane's position. If the seat next to me is empty I keep that one on the map while I watch movies and look out the window.

 

I've turned on my GPS a few times while flying when I had a window seat. It's cool to zoom in on the maps and watch the terrain fly by. It's also fun to check the "stats" screen and see you're average speed at over 500mph. Many of the airlines have cracked down on the use of electronic devices and specifically do not allow the use of GPS devices. Even if we could, I'm not sure what it has to do with geocaching.

 

Those entertainment systems with the real time map updates are nice but they're pretty much only for international flights, and then only on larger plans. It was cool to see how close I came to the north pole on a flight from Newark to Beijing and watching the route on the map over Siberia and Mongolia. However, the last time I flew to Europe it was on a smaller plane that didn't have the entertainment system in the seat backs and I really missed it.

[majormajor42]

Still waiting for the Geocaching part.

 

Done it:

 

done it on a train too:

[+wimseyguy]

Don't think I would really call that geocaching on an airplane unless you plan to log DNF's on the ones you tracked but did not actually find. But it is fun to see what is below while you are speeding through the sky. I almost always take the window seat and turn mine on on transcontinental or transoceanic flights. Not so much on the shorter up the coast flights that I have taken many times.

 

Two neat memories- we caught a serious tailwind on a flight to Italy in 2005 and I maintained 624mph as the max speed in my trip computer page for a while. And once I did not turn it off upon landing in New Orleans. The unit must have lost lock, but continued to calculate our position as the cursor kept on traveling down the runway at 100mph and crashed right into the terminal as we were braking on the runway before turning off onto the taxiway.

Glad I didn't cause a real crash by leaving my electronic device operational.

[+CanadianRockies]

There's an EarthCache forum thread that has a couple examples of EarthCaches being logged from planes, including this one.

[+G & C]

I turn my Oregon 550t on while I'm flying all the time. I also use a Bad Elf with my iPad when I'm in any plane that doesn't have heated windshields (for some reason, heated windshields block most GPS reception). It really isn't a big deal.

[+Ambrosia]

Signal, traveling to Australia.

 

Signal in the window by Ambrosia_apples, on Flickr

[+power69]

Still waiting for the Geocaching part.

 

Done it:

 

done it on a train too:

hey i got that skateboard tb at this very moment

[+ras_oscar]

Some airlines permit GPS usage in flight, some don't and some have recently changed the policy but not informed their air staff. It's not worth the risk of unscheduled landing and prison just to see the ground fly by. I have done it, but only after checking the list if devices approved for in flight use in the back of the magazine. If I can't find a printed approval I dont't do it.

[knowschad]

I got curious after reading this, because the last I heard, it was not allowed to turn a GPS receiver on while in a commercial airline. But apparently you can, at least in many cases. The most recent list I could find is from 2010: http://gpsinformation.net/airgps/airgps.htm

[+ras_oscar]

I used to fly American regularly and i believe they permit it above 10,000 FT. Southwest still does not allow. Since the GPS is only receiving signals, I doubt it could interfere. Of course, the same could be said of broadcast TV, and that is uniformly prohibited, so go figure. The issue is probably more one of identification; a crew member may not be able to look at a device and determine whether it is a GPS or some other prohibited item.

[+DragonsWest]

There's an EarthCache forum thread that has a couple examples of EarthCaches being logged from planes, including this one.

 

OK, now that is cool. I tip my hat to the creator of an Earthcache you can log from above. Clear skies!

[+Glenn]

I used to fly American regularly and i believe they permit it above 10,000 FT. Southwest still does not allow. Since the GPS is only receiving signals, I doubt it could interfere. Of course, the same could be said of broadcast TV, and that is uniformly prohibited, so go figure. The issue is probably more one of identification; a crew member may not be able to look at a device and determine whether it is a GPS or some other prohibited item.

Your GPS does produce a signal. It has a local oscillator that produces a small signal to mix with the incoming signal to produce another signal that your GPS uses. It doesn't have much of a range because these signals are meant to be used only internally by the GPS.

 

The other reason I've been given by flight attendants is that in an crash it can become deadly projectiles. Although you would think that books would also be a concern, being about the same size and shape, but apparently they aren't.

[knowschad]

The other reason I've been given by flight attendants is that in an crash it can become deadly projectiles.

Like a flying GPS is something I really need to worry about in an airplane crash!!

[majormajor42]

hey i got that skateboard tb at this very moment

 

Afraid not. It went missing in Europe last year.

 

Geo-Sk8

 

owner has something else similar but I think it is in PA

[+Ambrosia]

I used to fly American regularly and i believe they permit it above 10,000 FT. Southwest still does not allow. Since the GPS is only receiving signals, I doubt it could interfere. Of course, the same could be said of broadcast TV, and that is uniformly prohibited, so go figure. The issue is probably more one of identification; a crew member may not be able to look at a device and determine whether it is a GPS or some other prohibited item.

Your GPS does produce a signal. It has a local oscillator that produces a small signal to mix with the incoming signal to produce another signal that your GPS uses. It doesn't have much of a range because these signals are meant to be used only internally by the GPS.

 

The other reason I've been given by flight attendants is that in an crash it can become deadly projectiles. Although you would think that books would also be a concern, being about the same size and shape, but apparently they aren't.

 

You don't have to worry about laptops, cameras, or metal water bottles, either.

[+Sol seaker]

I'd rather err on the side of caution myself.

I'd hate to be the one thinking, while the plane was headed down, "Gee, I wonder if my turning on my GPS when it wasn't allowed screwed up the plane's instruments?"

 

Why would someone fool around with something that had potential for being dangerous?

 

Your mild entertainment isn't worth the risk. Play with your GPS on the ground. Bring other entertainment to amuse yourself while on the plane.

 

There are a lot of planes that have gone down where they don't know the cause.

Unless they say it's safe and okay to play with your GPS, Bring another toy.

[+Sol seaker]

Or go ahead and risk it and let me know if they confiscate it if they catch you.

If risking the lives of yourself and those around you doesn't bother you, then how about the possibility of losing your GPS? That ought to do it.

[+gtsally]

hey i got that skateboard tb at this very moment

 

Afraid not. It went missing in Europe last year.

 

Geo-Sk8

 

owner has something else similar but I think it is in PA

 

Looks like one of mine that has gone missing. Someone change the tag?

 

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=2770443

[+Glenn]

I'd rather err on the side of caution myself.

I'd hate to be the one thinking, while the plane was headed down, "Gee, I wonder if my turning on my GPS when it wasn't allowed screwed up the plane's instruments?"

 

Why would someone fool around with something that had potential for being dangerous?

 

Your mild entertainment isn't worth the risk. Play with your GPS on the ground. Bring other entertainment to amuse yourself while on the plane.

 

There are a lot of planes that have gone down where they don't know the cause.

Unless they say it's safe and okay to play with your GPS, Bring another toy.

If you have so little faith in pilots being able to compensate for A piece of faulty equipment then maybe air travel isn't for you. I think it's safe to say that all pilots are smarter than anyone who would drive off a cliff because their GPS "told" them to do it or anyone who would get by a train because their GPS "told" them to drive on the tracks.

 

Pretty much any electronic device has the same potential as a GPSr of "being dangerous". Yet, they are allowed in flight. It really doesn't make much sense to exclude some but not all. Airplanes take off and land with consumer electronics on the in the cabin all the time. How many people really turn off their kindles. How many people actually know how to really turn it off and not just make it go to the screen saver page. Personally I think it has to do with a fear of litigation. If a plane where to crash and word got around that someone had a GPS on the plane then the airline just might find itself in a lawsuit. People sue for all kinds of things these days and GPS = GPS isn't a big leap when you don't understand how the technology works.

[+hzoi]

I've gotten my GPSr out on planes before, but discreetly. First time I did it was when I only had a serial GPSr that plugged into my laptop. I was having fun wtching us zoom along on the map, but right after we went right over the Very Large Array in New Mexico, I got busted by a flight attendant and had to put it up.

 

When I was flying to and from Iwo Jima last December, our C-12 flight crew wasn't big on giving us updates, so I turned on the Oregon from time to time to see how much further we had to go. It was funny to watch the altimeter -- plane was pressurized for 5,000 feet, so that's where the Oregon thought we were.

 

(for some reason, heated windshields block most GPS reception)

 

Heated windows/windshields have metal heating elements in them -- probably creating a partial Farraday cage. I had a similar problem trying to use a large golf umbrella while caching. Didn't block the signal but really screwed it up.

[+ArcherDragoon]

Saw this interesting video on www.wimp.com I'm trying this on my next flight.

 

http://www.wimp.com/gpsairplane/

Dude clearly does not know how to use the GPS with all the additional touching and poking taking place...hope he don't drive and do that...just an accident waiting to happen...

[+Mitragorz]

I'd rather err on the side of caution myself.

I'd hate to be the one thinking, while the plane was headed down, "Gee, I wonder if my turning on my GPS when it wasn't allowed screwed up the plane's instruments?"

 

Why would someone fool around with something that had potential for being dangerous?

 

Your mild entertainment isn't worth the risk. Play with your GPS on the ground. Bring other entertainment to amuse yourself while on the plane.

 

There are a lot of planes that have gone down where they don't know the cause.

Unless they say it's safe and okay to play with your GPS, Bring another toy.

 

Or go ahead and risk it and let me know if they confiscate it if they catch you.

If risking the lives of yourself and those around you doesn't bother you, then how about the possibility of losing your GPS? That ought to do it.

 

A GPS won't bring down an airplane.

[MisterEFQ]

A GPS will not take down an airplane.

 

And here is a list of airlines that allow and do not allow them (last updated 2010)

 

http://gpsinformation.net/airgps/airgps.htm

[+bernsa]

So when I saw the topic - I was reminded of this activitiy I did a little over a year ago while on my way to cache in the San Francisco area:

 

 

I happened to recognize where we were flying and took a few snapshots and compared them to my finds (using GSAK)as I made my way across the country. Made for interesting use of time while in flight. No GPS was used in flight.

 

I call this Geocaching on a commercial flight.

[+Chrysalides]

Applying a bit of logic here, GPS receivers are embedded into all sorts of things these days. Tablets, cell phones, cameras. None have banned the use of tablets (or phones in airplane mode) when the plane is cruising. Some ban the use of cameras for the privacy of other passengers. Speaking of transmitters, all those people using laptops, most of them don't know how to turn off wifi if their life depended on it.

 

If an airplane is really so fragile, we'd all be stripped, drugged and hog-tied before we're allowed to board a plane.

 

Hmm, I hope I didn't give the TSA some new ideas here.

 

Now, if a flight attendant tells me to put my GPS receiver away, I'm not going to argue. If I complain, I'll do it with the airline's headquarters, not with the flight crew.

 

I've found that GPS receivers generally work better if I acquire a lock while on the ground, at the airport terminal. If you turn your GPS receiver on halfway through a flight, it may have a hard time calculating its position, depending on how long it has been, and how far away it was, the last time it had a lock.

 

But yeah, nothing to do with geocaching here. In before the move?

[+fizzymagic]

Southwest still does not allow.

 

Incorrect. I have seen this claim before and it is nonsense. Please stop spreading it. I flew on Southwest today, and checked the inflight mag, and, sure enough, GPS units are specifically allowed above 10,000 feet, along with many other electronic devices.

 

I have openly and happily used a variety of GPS devices on both United and Southwest for years.

[+jhellwig]

Has anyone mentioned that p&g's would be a pain?

[+Ambient_Skater]

I don't think a GPS is going to take down a airplane. I wouldn't use one while flying anyways since watching a map scroll by really fast isn't interesting enough for me to make the other two people in my row stand up so I can pull my bag out of the pile in the overhead compartment to retrieve my GPS.

 

I like how one of the commenters on the video thought the uploader's description, which jokingly says he expected the plane to explode when he turned on the device because of all the warnings surrounding its use, was serious and chided the uploader for turning on the device anyways when he actually expected it to cause the plane to explode.

[+Mr.Benchmark]

I'd rather err on the side of caution myself.

I'd hate to be the one thinking, while the plane was headed down, "Gee, I wonder if my turning on my GPS when it wasn't allowed screwed up the plane's instruments?"

 

If, god forbid, this happens to you, you won't be thinking about your GPS.

 

Why would someone fool around with something that had potential for being dangerous?

 

Your mild entertainment isn't worth the risk. Play with your GPS on the ground. Bring other entertainment to amuse yourself while on the plane.

 

Why are any of the other electronic devices they allow any different than a GPS in this regard? Mostly, they aren't. Oh - pilots, right next to the instruments, use all kinds of electronic devices.

 

There are a lot of planes that have gone down where they don't know the cause.

Unless they say it's safe and okay to play with your GPS, Bring another toy.

 

You realize that it is highly unlikely that the FCC & CE allows a jet-liner crashing frequency to be emitted from GPSr's right? And that the GPS has been around for a while, so there is a fair likelihood that if one of them were prone to affecting instruments, they'd have noticed it?

 

I don't suggest that people don't follow the rules - they are what they are, and people should follow them. But there's no reason to pretend that stupid and arbitrary rules aren't just that.

[+DragonsWest]

Has anyone mentioned that p&g's would be a pain?

 

You need a Zeppelin to get those.

[+jhellwig]

Till you pop it on an lpc.

[+Zant264]

On Monday I road jump seat in a Dash-8. I work for a charter company in Canada. I am with the aircraft on contract to another province as the engineer. I rarely get to go for a flight but on Monday afternoon it all came together so I could go for a ride.

 

I brought my Garmin 60Cx. It lost lock on the take-off roll and I had to hold it behind the pilot's head to regain a lock via the side window. I found a spot on a ledge behind the co-pilot to place it while in flight and secured the lanyard so it would't fall down and end up somewhere we didn't want it to be. ( in the stall warning computers for instance, it was possible for it to fall into there...)

 

It was cool as the aircraft's GPS was an older model without moving map and does not display on the EFIS. Just gives a heading to a waypoint and the autopilot can lock on to it. I had moving map and could name the lakes as we went by.

 

See that lake there?? It has Grey Owl's cabin on it!! The pilots had heard of Grey Owl but didn't know he had a cabin on that lake! (OK, what province am I in and what lake is that??) No there is no cache near the cabin.

 

GPS in an aircraft really will not do a thing. It will not bring an aircraft down if that is what you are worried about. The aircraft is being guided by a GPS and a feed from it steers the autopilot. And no worries about your GPS guiding the autopilot as it is a hard-wired feed from the ship's GPS to the autopilot.

 

Oh, when you send a text in the air (if you happen to actually have service...) you hear a morse-code type effect in the headseat as it is being sent...

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

Oh, when you send a text in the air (if you happen to actually have service...) you hear a morse-code type effect in the headseat as it is being sent...

 

I used to have a Blackberry pearl and have heard that effect as well. I first noticed it when I had it sitting on my desk and would hear a sequence of sequence of sounds from the speakers. It would happen even if I wasn't using the phone and it was sitting on my desk. Apparently there is some data exchange going on between the phone and the service provider all the time. That was when I first wondered if turning off cell phones during take off might make some sense. If a single phone is producing audio frequency interference even while it's not "in use" I wondered what the effect of a airplane full of cell phones might have.

 

I also wondered what kind of shielding that electronics equipment on a plane was if it could influenced by a cell phone.

[knowschad]

How is this geocaching?

[+Glenn]

How is this geocaching?

I asked the same question in post #4. Still didn't get any answer.

[+Zant264]

"I also wondered what kind of shielding that electronics equipment on a plane was if it could influenced by a cell phone."

 

I have asked the avionics techs that and "There is a small, slight chance that it could effect the ILS as the freq are close; but most probably nothing. May have been more of a problem with early phones but most phones today should not cause a problem."

 

But I shouldn't jack the thread.

 

So how do you cache in an airplane unless you use a bushplane or ultralight to get to the farther off places in the sticks to get some caches that way? What about caches near bush strips in the middle of no where? It really shouldn't matter if there is a cache on them should it, or is that still verboten? A cache could be placed a short distance away however.

 

You could do a series of those in your province/state. I know a few in my area that are abondoned. You can drive to them or perhaps still land a Cub with bush gear or a sturdy ultralight on them but that is it.

 

I would call that geocaching by airplane.

[+bernsa]

How is this geocaching?

 

I posted my angle and ultimately failed to steer the discussion in any way.

[+Chrysalides]

I posted my angle and ultimately failed to steer the discussion in any way.

What you did was interesting but still not geocaching, any more than participating in the geocaching forums is geocaching

[knowschad]

How is this geocaching?

 

I posted my angle and ultimately failed to steer the discussion in any way.

 

Those were some cool photographs, but you didn't actually look for any of those caches as you were flying by, did you? Did you sign any logs? Claim DNFs on them? Of course not. Flying over a cache while watching your GPS is no more geocaching than watching them scroll by on my Nuvi while I'm driving the freeway.

[+Ambient_Skater]

I posted my angle and ultimately failed to steer the discussion in any way.

[...]Flying over a cache while watching your GPS is no more geocaching than watching them scroll by on my Nuvi while I'm driving the freeway.

It can be if you happen to be one of those cachers who consider a hunt started when they press Go To on their GPS and log a DNF if they press it without finding the cache eventually. All you have to do is start the navigation to each cache and cancel it.

[+Chrysalides]

It can be if you happen to be one of those cachers who consider a hunt started when they press Go To on their GPS and log a DNF if they press it without finding the cache eventually. All you have to do is start the navigation to each cache and cancel it.

If I log a DNF I don't get a souvenir, I believe. Or do I? Never tried, actually. If I don't, then Groundspeak doesn't consider a DNF to be geocaching.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

It can be if you happen to be one of those cachers who consider a hunt started when they press Go To on their GPS and log a DNF if they press it without finding the cache eventually. All you have to do is start the navigation to each cache and cancel it.

If I log a DNF I don't get a souvenir, I believe. Or do I? Never tried, actually. If I don't, then Groundspeak doesn't consider a DNF to be geocaching.

 

As far as I know, only a "found it" or "attended" log will produce a souvenir. When they first came out, a souvenir would be awarded simply by searching for caches in a souvenir region using the official mobile app. That "feature" was turned off shortly afterwords, when I (among others) pointed out that one could get a souvenir simply by turning on their cell phone after landing in a plan at an airport, and acquire a souvenir even if they didn't get off the plane.

[+Glenn]

It can be if you happen to be one of those cachers who consider a hunt started when they press Go To on their GPS and log a DNF if they press it without finding the cache eventually. All you have to do is start the navigation to each cache and cancel it.

If I log a DNF I don't get a souvenir, I believe. Or do I? Never tried, actually. If I don't, then Groundspeak doesn't consider a DNF to be geocaching.

 

As far as I know, only a "found it" or "attended" log will produce a souvenir. When they first came out, a souvenir would be awarded simply by searching for caches in a souvenir region using the official mobile app. That "feature" was turned off shortly afterwords, when I (among others) pointed out that one could get a souvenir simply by turning on their cell phone after landing in a plan at an airport, and acquire a souvenir even if they didn't get off the plane.

You didn't even have to be physically there. There is an app for the Android OS that allows people without GPS in their device to trick the other apps in to thinking that there is a GPS available. Since there really isn't a GPS available they have to manually enter the coordinates, any coordinates work. Using this method you can "travel" to all 50 states in a matter of minutes. This hack has been used by people cheating at FourSquare ever since the beginning.

[+Chrysalides]

As far as I know, only a "found it" or "attended" log will produce a souvenir. When they first came out, a souvenir would be awarded simply by searching for caches in a souvenir region using the official mobile app. That "feature" was turned off shortly afterwords, when I (among others) pointed out that one could get a souvenir simply by turning on their cell phone after landing in a plan at an airport, and acquire a souvenir even if they didn't get off the plane.

I haven't been keeping track, glad to know that "launch app to get souvenir" loophole is fixed. Like you and Glenn pointed out, it's just crying out to be abused.

 

Anyway, Ambient Skater, there you have it. Even if you press "Go" on your GPSr and log a DNF, it's not geocaching according to Groundspeak (and, frankly, I don't think many here will consider it geocaching either).

 

Not that I'm suggesting any changes is needed. It's the lesser evil among the alternatives.

[+Zant264]

So no one likes my idea of taking a light aircraft from strip to strip in the boonies to place/grab caches that way?? I think it would be a great idea.