Embarassingly stupid question

[+erikausaf]

I read the guidelines for posting. I have checked through pages here...I think it's not posted cause maybe it is so obviously not allowed? I know caches can't be "commercial"...what exactly does that mean? Like if I own a cominc book store, can I make a comic book related cache? And I see they can't be on military bases on school property...but how about inside my store? Like clues that lead to a specific comic book that is actually blank inside and is actually a log? I can see how it's borderline tacky in that it may be considered blatant advertising...but there are more comic book "geeks" who may find the challenge interesting.

 

***I don't own a cominc book store or even any comics...I figured this was a neat idea though and can't tell if it's not allowed and/or tacky...even though my intent is not actually for any personal gain ((through advertising...))***I am new to this...sorry for the odd rhetoric... :)

[+DragonsWest]

I think Commercial means they can't be endorsing any company (cause) or product. Further, there shouldn't be any cost to accessing the cache. While it appears frowned upon to have a cache in a place of business, it appears to be OK, so long as the business has not placed it, but is placed by an unconnected geocacher with permission.

[+bptattooist]

I read the guidelines for posting. I have checked through pages here...I think it's not posted cause maybe it is so obviously not allowed? I know caches can't be "commercial"...what exactly does that mean? Like if I own a cominc book store, can I make a comic book related cache? And I see they can't be on military bases on school property...but how about inside my store? Like clues that lead to a specific comic book that is actually blank inside and is actually a log? I can see how it's borderline tacky in that it may be considered blatant advertising...but there are more comic book "geeks" who may find the challenge interesting.

 

***I don't own a cominc book store or even any comics...I figured this was a neat idea though and can't tell if it's not allowed and/or tacky...even though my intent is not actually for any personal gain ((through advertising...))***I am new to this...sorry for the odd rhetoric... :)

[+tozainamboku]

You probably can't hide a cache in your store. The guideline give a number of characteristic that might cause a cache to be deemed commercial:

1. It requires the finder to go inside a business, interact with employees and/or purchase a product or service.
   
2. It has overtones of advertising, marketing or promotion.
   
3. It contains links to businesses, commercial advertisers, charities, political agendas or social agendas.
   
4. It contains the logo of a business or organization, including non-profit organizations.
   
5. The name of a business or commercial product is on the cache page.
   

As you can see 1) would prevent caches inside of stores.

 

Edit to add: Sometime Grounspeak make exception for commercial cache. You should contact Groundspeak and get permission before submitting the cache to the reviewer. Also, the commercial guidelines have changed over the years, there are some caches inside store that are grandfathered.

Edited March 6, 2012 by tozainamboku

[+Max and 99]

I have seen "commercial" caches placed locally. I don't know if these technically fit the label, but one cache is inside a museum, another inside a visitor center, some outside restaurants, etc. I think a comic-themed puzzle cache with the final inside a comic book store would be really fun. You'd have to be very specific about the hours/days the store is open, AND if I remember correctly, you can't advertise the comic store in the cache page write-up.

[+bptattooist]

Hi Erik, or Tadpole,

I think the intent of no commercial caches is to keep the geocaching community and the activity of geocaching from getting spamed by commercial interests. Just imagine if you could use caching for commercial purposes how it would take the main concept of the sport away which is going to new places you may otherwise have never explored. Instead you'd being headed down to your local car dealer with GPS in hand to find GZ is inside the show room where you would be attacked by eager salespeople rather than spending the day out exploring which is what you wanted to do in the first place. Side note: I see your handle is erikausaf, just curious...Are you active duty USAF? I'm retired USAF If so thanks for your service

[+erikausaf]

yes, I am Erika and was in the USAF:).

 

Thanks for the info everyone. I will do a little more brainstorming...

 

To be perfectly honest, my mom and I were talking about this cause her friend owns a game store. Think board games and some of those...WOW type stuff (maybe? I don't know)...he's got games from Europe and a million different variations of like...Uno games. Anyway, my mom and I were talking about those multi-cache ones and how much fun it is to do the longer ones...but I want there to either be some kind of payoff or something clever at the end. Not just go to 1, read these coords that take you to 2...read these coords, go to 3, etc. But if we got her friend to help us, we could make like a "Katniss Everdeen lives in this district, Prim lives in this district, etc" with "Hunger Games type clues maybe. Then at the second spot, some other "game" type clues, etc. Leading you through the town (a very small Dickens type town) to the game store with the actual log book being inside one of the books or board game boxes (with no purchase needed obviously:)).

 

****I really do genuinly apologize for how this is worded...we are relatively new to this and don't plan on rushing a cache out tomorrow or anything...just since my mom and I were talking and wondering if it was even possible I told her I know where I could ask and feel out people for it...****

 

Thank you all for your patience and responses:)

[+erikausaf]

Although I guess a micro ON the building would serve a similar "clever" ending without being boderline commercial or tacky in it's advertising?...

 

(FYI, The friend of my mom wants to do SOMETHING since he loves all games so much that the idea of a puzzle type multi cache appeals whether or not it involves his store)

[+BlueDeuce]

Talk to your local reviewer.

Don't consider any business advertising on the cache page.

Don't require any purchase or access fees.

Being open Twelve hours plus is helpful.

Mentioning supporting travel bugs is to your benefit.

Build a true history of being a supportive cacher.

Talk to your local reviewer.

[+The A-Team]

Like if I own a comic book store, can I make a comic book related cache?

There have actually been 2 incarnations of a cache that were in fact hidden in the local comic book store. Seriously. They were both puzzles, and the final was a container sitting behind the counter. I'm fully convinced that had the reviewers known that they were hidden like this, they wouldn't have been published, since they blatantly violate the first point in toz's post. They've both been archived now, so it's no longer an issue, but I assume that had someone mentioned either to a reviewer, they would have been quickly archived. If you don't have to interact with the employees, there's a slight chance you'd be able to pull it off. Like others said, your local reviewer would be the best person to run it by.

[+Chrysalides]

Talk to your local reviewer.

This. Because in the end it is the only opinion that really matters.

 

I've found a few inside businesses, but the guidelines say that there's no precedence rule - just because it's been done before doesn't mean your reviewer should allow it.

 

Good luck with your hide.

[+terrkan78]

I've seen older caches inside businesses. I doubt they'd get published today.

 

I've also seen caches right outside businesses (attached to the building wall, etc.) and although the cache made no mention of the business, it seemed apparent to me that the point of the cache was to draw attention to the business. It worked...I bought lunch at one. It was a good lunch. (Except they put a long, narrow, green bean-looking thing on there and I chomped down only to find that it was some kind of hot pepper...who knew that hot peppers came in green-bean camo??)

 

You can put the cache outside the business (so people don't have to go in if they don't want), don't mention the business in the cache write-up (because that won't fly), but you might be able to get away with mentioning board games somewhere in the title or the description (and maybe not - I'd ask the reviewer for input on that one).

[+The Blorenges]

(Except they put a long, narrow, green bean-looking thing on there and I chomped down only to find that it was some kind of hot pepper...who knew that hot peppers came in green-bean camo??)

 

Thanks for giving me my lunchtime laugh.

 

To the OP,

 

I like the idea of a games-related cache. I'm sure it's possible if done carefully, following the advice in the posts above.

 

MrsB

Edited March 6, 2012 by The Blorenges

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Talk to your local reviewer.

This. Because in the end it is the only opinion that really matters.

 

I've found a few inside businesses, but the guidelines say that there's no precedence rule - just because it's been done before doesn't mean your reviewer should allow it.

 

I have also seen quite a few cache listings for caches in foreign countries where the container is inside a business. Typically, they're in developing countries and often the only cache in the area (and frequently one of the few caches in the entire country). It's clear from the listings that their is no commercial intent, but a proprietor has agreed to keep the container inside the business to protect it from muggles and ensure that those want to "find" it will be able to do so. In every case I've seen the online logs mention what a pleasure it was to meet the keeper of the cache, and I imagine reading the log book would be quite interesting. It's cases like this that I am glad that the guidelines are just that; guidelines, and that reviewers will grant some leniency in allowing them to be published.

[+nikcap]

Hi erikausaf, it sounds like that your friends store and geocaching might be a good fit.

I would suggest that you contact Groundspeak directly and put them in touch with the stores owner, just so everyone is on the same page.

 

Basically, I consider a "commercial" cache to be something that promotes or endorses any other business, service or cause.

 

Good luck with your effort!

Edited March 6, 2012 by ekitt10

[+En_Passant]

I'm trying to enable my first cache so it can be reviewed. I clicked on enable listing in the comments box what am i suppose to write

[+Lil Devil]

I'm trying to enable my first cache so it can be reviewed. I clicked on enable listing in the comments box what am i suppose to write

Just a quick comment like "ready to be reviewed" or something like that would work. Or a joke about unicorns. That's always a good bet.

[+Sol seaker]

I have seen more caches than I can count OUTSIDE of businesses, but I've never seen one in a business. I've seen caches in libraries though.

 

I think once a cache goes inside a business it gets commercial. I would imagine it would be hard to get one published inside a business.

 

I would

A. talk to a reviewer first

B. Consider other possibilities, such as a game in the form of a multi or puzzle cache in a local park that has nothing to do with the business.

C. A cache outside the business that has no mention whatsoever of the business

D. Hold an event inside the game business where you play some game associated with caching, or just talk caching and eat doughnuts.

[+ras_oscar]

As a practical matter, its really hard to get good GPS reception in a building. For me the non-commercial guidelines means I am not required to buy anything (such as admission to a zoo) to score the smiley. While I wouldn't do it, I have no problem in theory with a cache hidden behind a counter that requires requesting it from the clerk. It seems, however, that it could be very disruptive to a retail business to have people coming in and taking up the staff time. Also, if you do a blank comic book there is always a possibility that someone will come in and buy it. In any event, a cache in a business would require explicit permission, IE a signed permission ship from the business owner. At least that's what I would do if I were a reviewer. (which I am not) If you could describe what portions of this idea appeal to you perhaps we could come up with a more traditional placement that has less potential for problems.

[+Semper Questio]

I've seen several caches in businesses. The keys to doing it, last I heard, are that the cache cannot promote the business, require a purchase, or involve interaction with any employee.

[+niraD]

As a practical matter, its really hard to get good GPS reception in a building.

Yeah, but there is no requirement that there be GPS reception at the cache location. I've found caches where there was no GPS reception at the cache location, and others where GPS reception at the cache location was irrelevant.

[+CanadianRockies]

I've seen several caches in businesses. The keys to doing it, last I heard, are that the cache cannot promote the business, require a purchase, or involve interaction with any employee.

From my reading of the guidelines, simply being inside a business is enough to get a cache archived or not published:

 

A commercial cache has one or more of the following characteristics:

 

1. It requires the finder to go inside a business, interact with employees and/or purchase a product or service.

I recall four caches that I've found inside commercial establishments. One was archived when the reviewer learned about the situation. Two were probably old enough to be grandfathered. Not sure about the other.

[+J the Goat]

As a practical matter, its really hard to get good GPS reception in a building.

Yeah, but there is no requirement that there be GPS reception at the cache location. I've found caches where there was no GPS reception at the cache location, and others where GPS reception at the cache location was irrelevant.

 

"I just started and don't have a GPS, but was able to get the coordinates with google earth. Have a fun search."

[+niraD]

As a practical matter, its really hard to get good GPS reception in a building.

Yeah, but there is no requirement that there be GPS reception at the cache location. I've found caches where there was no GPS reception at the cache location, and others where GPS reception at the cache location was irrelevant.

"I just started and don't have a GPS, but was able to get the coordinates with google earth. Have a fun search."

That isn't the kind of situation I meant. I was referring to caches where the first stage is identified by GPS coordinates (thus, GPS usage is an integral and essential element of finding the geocache, as required by the guidelines), but later stages are identified in some other way (e.g., bearing and distance, or position relative to visible landmarks).

[knowschad]

It sure would be nice if a mod could change the subject to something more meaningful like "Commercial cache question".

[+Chrysalides]

It sure would be nice if a mod could change the subject to something more meaningful like "Commercial cache question".

Report it? That should get the attention of a mod (assuming no one is looking at this at the moment)

[+erikausaf]

It sure would be nice if a mod could change the subject to something more meaningful like "Commercial cache question".

Report it? That should get the attention of a mod (assuming no one is looking at this at the moment)

 

I tried to "edit" my original post to see if I could change it but it if it's possible, I can't find it.

 

I have been to a lot of online forums where things can get pretty nasty so I really really appreciate all the responses and tips that you all are giving this "newbie". We will try to come up with exactly what we want and then contact the reviewer to get some tips. The owner buys tons of those like...figurines that you have to keep buying to get a certain one. Like baseball cards I guess where you have to buy 300 to get the 1 that everyone wants. So he has a ton of the more common ones. Our reasoning for putting it in the store was based more on having a always fully stocked cache rather then for promotion. Of course, I'm not being naive...I can totally see how having it in a store regardless is promotion whether it was intentional or not:). I was thinking along the lines of the last clue of a multicache telling where/which game box to look into and then it being filled with a log book and game related trinkets that could be easily restocked. I wont beat this dead horse though, just wanted to update anyone who cares and let you know we will contact the reviewer before getting to that final stage:). Thanks again.

[+Chrysalides]

I tried to "edit" my original post to see if I could change it but it if it's possible, I can't find it.

I believe you can only edit for a certain amount of time (24 hours?) and I'm not sure if the title can be edited.

 

The forums is generally a friendly place when someone is asking for information. It only turns ugly when someone is hostile. For example, if someone were to post "Why can't I hide a cache in (insert location)? This is idiotic." it just goes downhill really fast. And of course, there are a number of dead horse topics that get the usual snarky remarks from some forum regulars - more like an inside joke than out of true malice.

 

Good luck with the cache, I hope it works out.

[knowschad]

It sure would be nice if a mod could change the subject to something more meaningful like "Commercial cache question".

Report it? That should get the attention of a mod (assuming no one is looking at this at the moment)

 

I tried to "edit" my original post to see if I could change it but it if it's possible, I can't find it.

You won't be able to edit the subject yourself, but if you hit the report button, you can ask a mod to. Better that you, as OP ask, then for me to. A good, meaningful subject not only gets your thread the current attention it deserves, but it becomes much more useful in the future when somebody does a forum search.