Jump to content

Do you carry self protection ?


OZ2CPU
Followers 6

Recommended Posts

Has anyone every used a weapon (come in contact by beating, stabbing, shooting, spraying - not just brandishing the weapon) to defend themselves against the 2-legged or 4-legged variety of animal while out geocaching?

I'm fortunate that I haven't needed to use my bear spray -- all the bears I have encountered have been far enough away that I could avoid them.

 

The canister I have "expires" this year so I plan to shoot it off after I buy a new one just so the first time I actually use it isn't when I REALLY need it.

 

It's very reassuring that no one has responded with a story about how they had to use their weapon in self defense while geocaching.

Link to comment

I don't think owning/carring a gun is a American thing. I think it's a culture thing. While in the outback near Alice Spirngs most of the locals there pack as well. They were raised on raches as well. It's the culture.

 

 

Now the inner-city 'gansta' thing... well don't get me started on that.

 

In the Alice Springs culture you describe, a firearm is a tool & is respected by its holder.

 

In the inner-city "gangsta" thing, it's a status symbol, projection of perceived power and means of intimidation.

That's my point exactly. Around here not only do you carry guns you often use them and not for people. They are as you said tools. You use them around the ranch just like a hammer of an chain saw.

 

I was taught how to use a firearm at about 5 years old and was expected to use it. I never wanted to 'play' with my father's weapons any more than I want to 'play' with the table saw in his shop. They were both tools that could hurt you if misuseed.

Yes we would go shooting, but that was to improve my skill not to go blast something.

 

There seems to be a culture divide that seperates people when comes to firarms. Many hate the sight of them and think they are wrong in any way. Some think that they are bling and status symbols. Other that they are toys and just for sport. Then there is the ever shrinking group that see them as just an object that you need in your life to make better and easier.

Edited by Totem Clan
Link to comment

I was alone in the middle of the woods. I looked around and saw nothing but trees and I asked myself what would I do if a bear suddenly appeared. I decided I needed protection and later bought a can of bear spray.

I assume the spray will work well on other critters, both two and four-legged as well.

Still your best defense when outdoors is to use common sense and know to avoid trouble. I am always on heightened alert. If something looks like trouble (and even if it doesn't) I am out of there. I'll size up the location of a cache and possible dangers. No cache is that important that I have to look for it.

When I was young my girlfriend and I went for a walk in the country. Sounds so nice and peaceful doesn't it? - walking through the picturesque countryside. You don't think about things like farm dogs. We came around a bend and found ourselves surrounded by 12 dogs- a pack of 12 growling, snearing, mean-looking farm dogs. My girlfriend looked around and saw a little boy about six years of age playing in the yard next door. "Are these your dogs!", she yelled at him. The little boy came over with a big grin on his face. "Yes, they won't hurt you." he told us. Somehow we did not find that comforting, but the dogs backed off seeing the little boy there. We continued on our way and later in the day returned home along the same route. Again we were surrounded by the dogs only this time the little boy was no where to be seen. Now what do we do? They had us surrounded. They were snarling and staring at us, all except for this one small dog who had stepped in a little closer and was wagging his tail and smiling at us. My girlfriend remembered the little dog's name which the boy had told to us. She called the little dog over to her and began to make a fuss over him. This totally confused the other dogs who really didn't know what to make of this. To them we were a threat, but here this little dog apparently knew us and if this little dog thought we were okay then it appears they wouldn't attack. We used the little dog as an escort through the pack of dogs and once away from them headed on home.

Link to comment

I wondered what to do with my spray once it reached its expiration date. Maybe I'll shoot mine off too once it expires. That woodchuck in the hole under my shed is in for a rude awakening.

Has anyone every used a weapon (come in contact by beating, stabbing, shooting, spraying - not just brandishing the weapon) to defend themselves against the 2-legged or 4-legged variety of animal while out geocaching?

I'm fortunate that I haven't needed to use my bear spray -- all the bears I have encountered have been far enough away that I could avoid them.

 

The canister I have "expires" this year so I plan to shoot it off after I buy a new one just so the first time I actually use it isn't when I REALLY need it.

Link to comment

Being from South Dakota, the human critter is not a big problem. So, typically I carry two tools, cell phone and 9mm beretta. I cache alone a lot and many places in SD, the cell serivce is minimal so if I fell and broke an ankle or leg, I would use the pistol to signal for help.

 

I didn't used to carry, but more and more reports of mountain lions in the area, it only seems right to carry some sort of protection, just in case.

Link to comment

Has anyone every used a weapon (come in contact by beating, stabbing, shooting, spraying - not just brandishing the weapon) to defend themselves against the 2-legged or 4-legged variety of animal while out geocaching?

I'm fortunate that I haven't needed to use my bear spray -- all the bears I have encountered have been far enough away that I could avoid them.

 

The canister I have "expires" this year so I plan to shoot it off after I buy a new one just so the first time I actually use it isn't when I REALLY need it.

 

It's very reassuring that no one has responded with a story about how they had to use their weapon in self defense while geocaching.

That's so very true....

 

Use of deadly force is a LAST resort. Anything else is a failure at one level or another.

 

Brandishing or allowing a weapon to be viewed by others is misuse. It is a singular-purpose tool. It has but one function -- to kill. It is not a tool to 'scare' others away, it is not intended to only wound, it is designed to kill and nothing else. No matter how proficient one may be in its' use, using it other than to kill is (IMO) unacceptable. If you want only to wound, your mind is in the wrong place. People and animals die from wounds. If you intend to only to wound, you had best rethink why you carry.

 

Sure, stopping a threat is the general idea, and wounding usually stops a threat. Stopping a threat without killing is good, but you cannot intend to wound without the possibility of killing. Should your intent be other than killing -- leave it at home, or at a minimum do not put it into your hands. A firearm is deadly force, no matter how you intend on using it. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

 

If you aren't prepared to handle the consequences, don't even think about putting it into use. Trust me, even with that preparation of accepting the consequences, more often than not, they are difficult to bear.

Link to comment

Being from South Dakota, the human critter is not a big problem. So, typically I carry two tools, cell phone and 9mm beretta. I cache alone a lot and many places in SD, the cell serivce is minimal so if I fell and broke an ankle or leg, I would use the pistol to signal for help.

 

I didn't used to carry, but more and more reports of mountain lions in the area, it only seems right to carry some sort of protection, just in case.

 

It's interesting reading that some people carry pistols to protect themselves from larger animals - cougars, bear, moose. How effective are pistols? Would a a rifle be a better tool?

Link to comment

Brandishing or allowing a weapon to be viewed by others is misuse. It is a singular-purpose tool. It has but one function -- to kill. It is not a tool to 'scare' others away, it is not intended to only wound, it is designed to kill and nothing else. No matter how proficient one may be in its' use, using it other than to kill is (IMO) unacceptable. If you want only to wound, your mind is in the wrong place. People and animals die from wounds. If you intend to only to wound, you had best rethink why you carry.

 

Sure, stopping a threat is the general idea, and wounding usually stops a threat. Stopping a threat without killing is good, but you cannot intend to wound without the possibility of killing. Should your intent be other than killing -- leave it at home, or at a minimum do not put it into your hands. A firearm is deadly force, no matter how you intend on using it. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

 

If you aren't prepared to handle the consequences, don't even think about putting it into use. Trust me, even with that preparation of accepting the consequences, more often than not, they are difficult to bear.

That as so true.

 

If more people veiwed it that way we wouldn't have a lot of the problems we have.

Link to comment

while caching yesterday I was on the trail and a jogger came by with his dog. his dog had a leash on but the jogger was NOT HOLDING IT. i hate it when people do this.

 

it was a tiny dog, but it did come at me and growl. the owner yelled at it and it returned to him but what if it hadn't? what if i had to defend myself? I mean it was small so defending myself probably would have been kicking it away but i still don't wanna have to hurt someones pet. I hate stupid pet owners.

 

sorry, got off topic. my point is that i will be carrying a walking stick with me from now on simply because of bad dog owners.

 

although we do have bear problems a lot in this area, maybe i'll look into bear spray.

Link to comment

Being from South Dakota, the human critter is not a big problem. So, typically I carry two tools, cell phone and 9mm beretta. I cache alone a lot and many places in SD, the cell serivce is minimal so if I fell and broke an ankle or leg, I would use the pistol to signal for help.

 

I didn't used to carry, but more and more reports of mountain lions in the area, it only seems right to carry some sort of protection, just in case.

 

It's interesting reading that some people carry pistols to protect themselves from larger animals - cougars, bear, moose. How effective are pistols? Would a a rifle be a better tool?

No. Not at the ranges you're talking about. A handgun is much easier to use at close range.

 

Plus a hand gun has more stopping power. You want to put as much energy into the target as possible. A rifle will punch through your target leaving a smaller hole, while the handgun will delivery all it's force into the target.

 

Also a handgun is easier to carry.

 

Differnt tools for differnt jobs.

Link to comment

while caching yesterday I was on the trail and a jogger came by with his dog. his dog had a leash on but the jogger was NOT HOLDING IT. i hate it when people do this.

 

it was a tiny dog, but it did come at me and growl. the owner yelled at it and it returned to him but what if it hadn't? what if i had to defend myself? I mean it was small so defending myself probably would have been kicking it away but i still don't wanna have to hurt someones pet. I hate stupid pet owners.

 

sorry, got off topic. my point is that i will be carrying a walking stick with me from now on simply because of bad dog owners.

 

although we do have bear problems a lot in this area, maybe i'll look into bear spray.

That's not off topic at all.

Link to comment

I wondered what to do with my spray once it reached its expiration date. Maybe I'll shoot mine off too once it expires. That woodchuck in the hole under my shed is in for a rude awakening.

Has anyone every used a weapon (come in contact by beating, stabbing, shooting, spraying - not just brandishing the weapon) to defend themselves against the 2-legged or 4-legged variety of animal while out geocaching?

I'm fortunate that I haven't needed to use my bear spray -- all the bears I have encountered have been far enough away that I could avoid them.

 

The canister I have "expires" this year so I plan to shoot it off after I buy a new one just so the first time I actually use it isn't when I REALLY need it.

 

Just be careful. You don't want that stuff blowing back at you. You also don't want to touch your eyes, mouth, or other sensitive areas on your body until you have thoroughly washed your hands. Even if you don't think you got anything on your hands you don't want to risk it, trust me.

Link to comment

However, Run from a rattle Snake.

I wouldn't suggest this.

 

Snakes, including poisonous ones, are afraid of humans. They'll look for an escape route rather than chase you. If they bite humans, it's in self-defense. They can strike about half their body length. If you're at least 6 feet away, then you should be safe. Rather than make sudden movements (which might be perceived as threatening), just slowly back away. And look behind you to make sure you aren't approaching another snake.

Link to comment

Best weapon is the brain, and knowing how to use it.

 

There are other 'tools' of course, but the true weapon is still the brain.

Just remember that whatever 'tool' you have, can be taken away by another.

 

As far as animals go, the best defense is to let them know you are there, long before you happen onto them and spook 'em.

Sure, there are animals (a cougar, a grizzly bear and a few others) that occasionally go against the grain, but mostly they leave, knowing you are coming.

 

Somebody 'having' to kill a snake has always sort of set me back on my heels. I know that there are aggressive snakes out there, but just how many are truly aggressive enough to attack offensively as opposed to defensively? Then, just what are your chances of actually encountering one of them? There are simple ways to avert (most) snake attacks. I am not a snake-lover, but I just don't understand why killing of the critter is so foremost in many people's minds.

 

I am a licensed carrier, have been for 40+ years, and a firearms instructor. I rarely carry.

I have a 5½ ft. staff, that beats any weapon outside of a firearm; given the proper circumstances, it also beats a firearm. It has been a trusted companion for nearly the time I have been licensed to carry. It is ironwood (eastern U.S.) and nearly indestructible.

Practice for its' use is absolutely necessary. If you don't practice, don't rely on it.

SIDE-NOTE: It would not fend off the aforementioned cougar or grizzly. :( It does wonders on a human 'animal' and most all others.

 

I'll second Clan's post as well. I thought this was very well written.

 

For those who disregard 'sticks': I've got many years of training that included regular work with 'sticks', from Arnis sticks to Jo's (short staff) & Bo's (long staff). With someone who knows what they are doing, they're excellent tools and should not be underestimated.

Link to comment

I wondered what to do with my spray once it reached its expiration date. Maybe I'll shoot mine off too once it expires. That woodchuck in the hole under my shed is in for a rude awakening.

I'm fortunate that I haven't needed to use my bear spray -- all the bears I have encountered have been far enough away that I could avoid them.

 

The canister I have "expires" this year so I plan to shoot it off after I buy a new one just so the first time I actually use it isn't when I REALLY need it.

Just be careful. You don't want that stuff blowing back at you. You also don't want to touch your eyes, mouth, or other sensitive areas on your body until you have thoroughly washed your hands. Even if you don't think you got anything on your hands you don't want to risk it, trust me.

You also can practice with inert spray cans, which cost about half as much as those that contain pepper spray. Even better, check out local training courses. For DanOCan, I know there's a Canmore, Alberta, organization that offers free training courses and uses inert spray. I think it's WildSmart; if not, they probably can point you in the right direction.

Link to comment

I wondered what to do with my spray once it reached its expiration date. Maybe I'll shoot mine off too once it expires. That woodchuck in the hole under my shed is in for a rude awakening.

Has anyone every used a weapon (come in contact by beating, stabbing, shooting, spraying - not just brandishing the weapon) to defend themselves against the 2-legged or 4-legged variety of animal while out geocaching?

I'm fortunate that I haven't needed to use my bear spray -- all the bears I have encountered have been far enough away that I could avoid them.

 

The canister I have "expires" this year so I plan to shoot it off after I buy a new one just so the first time I actually use it isn't when I REALLY need it.

 

Just be careful. You don't want that stuff blowing back at you. You also don't want to touch your eyes, mouth, or other sensitive areas on your body until you have thoroughly washed your hands. Even if you don't think you got anything on your hands you don't want to risk it, trust me.

 

Had to laugh at that. Reminded me of when I was in Haiti. We were issued spray cans of milSpec pepper spray. Being in the Army and having been trained in its use I knew what to expect. One of our Air Force counter parts thought using it on the rats in our sleeping area would get rid of them. As he got his aim down and swung his arm around and started to spray he sprayed directly into an industrial floor fan. Everyone got to experience the full effect of the spray. Don't mess with this stuff lightly.

 

Now for the topic at hand, yes I carry and never have I had to upholster my weapon while caching. Knowing how to de-escalate a situation is key.

Link to comment

Being from South Dakota, the human critter is not a big problem. So, typically I carry two tools, cell phone and 9mm beretta. I cache alone a lot and many places in SD, the cell serivce is minimal so if I fell and broke an ankle or leg, I would use the pistol to signal for help.

 

I didn't used to carry, but more and more reports of mountain lions in the area, it only seems right to carry some sort of protection, just in case.

 

It's interesting reading that some people carry pistols to protect themselves from larger animals - cougars, bear, moose. How effective are pistols? Would a a rifle be a better tool?

Neither one is a very good tool (link). Quote from the linked article:

 

You might think guns would provide better personal protection but research suggests that human bear encounters involving firearms are far more likely to result in injury to humans. According to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Law Enforcement Personnel, even experienced

hunters who use firearms to defend themselves suffer injury 50% of the time. Persons defending

themselves with bear spray escaped injury most of the time and those that were injured experienced

shorter attacks and less severe injuries.

Canadian bear biologist Dr. Stephen Herrero believes a person’s chance of incurring serious injury doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used.

Edited by david_and_h
Link to comment

However, Run from a rattle Snake.

I wouldn't suggest this.

 

Snakes, including poisonous venomous ones, are afraid of humans. They'll look for an escape route rather than chase you. If they bite humans, it's in self-defense. They can strike about half their body length. If you're at least 6 feet away, then you should be safe. Rather than make sudden movements (which might be perceived as threatening), just slowly back away. And look behind you to make sure you aren't approaching another snake.

 

Sorry. The pedantic jerk in me, just can't let that slide. :P

Link to comment

I always cache armed. Just take a look at my gallery for proof of that.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=cc37b420-54fe-45f4-a27a-4a294c5540e2

 

A firearm is a tool. I usually carry a rifle around the Carrizo Plain just because I can. No other reason. I hardly see anyone so there is nothing to be worried about, but with my rifle, I worry even less.

 

I do enjoy being able to Cache in any neighborhood because I pay attention and am usually armed.

Link to comment

I love firearms, but I never carry them while caching. I hunt every chance I can, and sometimes I will be able to chase a cache while out grouse or duck hunting, so the shotgun is with me then, but I have never just grabbed up a handgun or any other weapon for protection. When I am not hunting, I am camping and hiking or camping and canoeing, and it has never occurred to me to bring a weapon along then either. My interaction with animals of the wild type is vast and frequent. I see bear and wolves, coyotes and bobcat quite often. I have even seen a mountain lion, twice. Both times they were running across a road. Not once has it crossed my mind that I may need to protect myself from an attack from any animal. My guess is that it's because I grew up in the northern woods and was around all these animals often. My experience tells me that they are far more wary of us than we are of them and if I go about my business, paying respect to my surroundings, then things will be okay. Should I be wrong, and end up on the wrong side of an angry bear, then so be it. My goof up. I am in their territory, and it is my job to do my best to avoid aggravating them to the point of attack.

 

That said, I was also homeless for 10 years, living on the streets in Minneapolis, New York, Chicago, LA, San Fransisco, Miami and Houston and I never carried more than a pocket knife then. The knife is a utility tool that I used for opening cans and bags, repairing things and cleaning my nails. I even used the scissors on that trusty knife to trim my beard. After having gone through that, I have no real fear or concern for the two legged type either. I lived through that, I will live through the rest without need of protection aside from my wits, skill, and fleet feet!

 

I am 100% in support of anyone who wishes to own and carry firearms and think it is fantastic that so many on here do. I am also loving the civil discourse taking place about it! Kudos to all!

Link to comment

Being from South Dakota, the human critter is not a big problem. So, typically I carry two tools, cell phone and 9mm beretta. I cache alone a lot and many places in SD, the cell serivce is minimal so if I fell and broke an ankle or leg, I would use the pistol to signal for help.

 

I didn't used to carry, but more and more reports of mountain lions in the area, it only seems right to carry some sort of protection, just in case.

 

It's interesting reading that some people carry pistols to protect themselves from larger animals - cougars, bear, moose. How effective are pistols? Would a a rifle be a better tool?

No. Not at the ranges you're talking about. A handgun is much easier to use at close range.

 

Plus a hand gun has more stopping power. You want to put as much energy into the target as possible. A rifle will punch through your target leaving a smaller hole, while the handgun will delivery all it's force into the target.

 

Also a handgun is easier to carry.

 

Differnt tools for differnt jobs.

 

Exactly.

 

A rifle is better if you're HUNTING an animal but if you don't want to hurt one, just protect yourself, I like my .44 Mag....its also enough power for larger animals. If I were ever threatened the first shot ( if possible ) would be to SCARE....pretty load report ( one of the reasons I'm deaf in my right ear and hearing aid in the other).....I wished hearing protection would have been preached 50 years ago.

Link to comment

Rarely carry but I was glad I did on one occasion. I once scared off a pair of large aggressive dogs that were coming at me and my son with a couple of warning shots. They were coming toward us with heads down, hair up, and growling- very scary. I fired a shot into the ground in front of them and they ran off a ways. One of them decided to try again and a second shot scared him off for good. I didn't want to but the third shot would have been to kill. I had no doubt that they were going to attack.

Link to comment
Just be careful. You don't want that stuff blowing back at you. You also don't want to touch your eyes, mouth, or other sensitive areas on your body until you have thoroughly washed your hands. Even if you don't think you got anything on your hands you don't want to risk it, trust me.

I was going to say this too. I actually got the idea to shoot off the old can from a fellow cacher and he was telling me the story of how he went out to use one of his old cans on an anthill and forgot to check the wind direction first...not a pleasant experience! :blink:

Link to comment

My biggest fear around here is ticks. So, yes, I carry bug spray with DEET. I have trekking poles, and they are pointy.

I fended off a bear, just before dawn, by shooting him right between the eyes with my brand new Super Brite flashlight, saying in my best Bad Dog! voice NO BEAR, NO! As long as I could see the yellow/green reflection coming back at me from his eyes, I knew he was blinded, with spots in his eyes. He left, and went off to the campsite of the people who left food out. Yes, I said something to them. I think I said "no, I'm not kidding, there is a bear in your campsite, and he is taking your food that you left out, which they told you in the brochure NOT TO LEAVE OUT!"

I took photos, but it was dark. I did get the reflection of his eyes though.

4e5a5fdb-4604-4689-a410-51870908cc38.jpg

My log.

 

Ran into a mountain lion once, he just got annoyed that we ruined his sunny nap, and loped off. We tried to follow him, because 'they don't live around here' but we got covered with ticks by the dozens in the brush and like I said, I hate ticks.

Link to comment

We carried bear spray when caching in the back of beyond, where we had seen bears on a previous visit. All I can say is - don't drop it!!! "We" did, from knee height, a breeze came up on what had been a calm summer's day, the canister split and the cachemobile had the roof open - you can imagine the coughing and spluttering. Be VERY aware of which way any wind is blowing, or you can be incapacitated rather than the wild animal.

The best weapon I have is my singing - keeps anything away!

Link to comment

HAHA to post 53, a real dog psychiatrist was created here,

I think your where very lucky !

I dont really understand a dog's mind, but I think animals will most likely not attact you for no reason,

what they think is a reason or not, I find a little bit difficult to figure out,

but jumping up a fence while barking wildly, and you are just on the other side, and fence seems like poorly made,

or dog size vs fence height - seems like possible they could jump it if they really wanted to..

it scares the guts out of me..

And I do write a polite note about it in the DNF !!

here is my log:

http://coord.info/GC1ERN9

 

to post 79.. funny you mention this,

I also tried to point my 1000 lumens flashligh to the head of several animals,

Deer and crasy dogs who was to close to me, scaring me some how.

I got exactly the effect I wanted,

no parmanent harm was done to them, I guess it gives at night a terrible pain,

so they back off, maybe even freeze, they are not able to attact if they cant see a thing,

they only think about going away.

Scaring a Deer away from a road, it is a BAD idea to use the headlight.. they will freeze !!

use the horm, they will run away.

Edited by OZ2CPU
Link to comment

Scaring a Deer away from a road, it is a BAD idea to use the headlight.. they will freeze !!

use the horm, they will run away.

Don't bet on ANYTHING that (you think) a deer will do.

 

Your choices:

1) Brake hard -- as much as you can without skidding (period)!

2) Hold onto the steering wheel and drive through the deer -- he just may not be there when you get there!

3) Refer to 1) or 2)

 

What you should NOT do:

1) Swerve

2) Flash your lights, blow your horn, or anything other than what you are doing -- DRIVING the vehicle.

 

Hitting the deer is far better than "horseshoeing" your car around a tree, lamppost, or whatever else gets in your way after you swerve and lose control. Jerking the wheel to swerve at speed is never an option. If your speed is less than normal highway speed, then steering may be an option.

Never leave the pavement 'cuz once you do, you relinquish most all control due to lessened friction surface, even with just two wheels off. Ever see those wide, sweeping "skid" marks that arc across the roadway? That's from people jerking the steering wheel at speed then over-correcting to straighten out. It happens most every time. 'Tis the single biggest cause of roll-overs.

 

An insurance agent friend told me many years ago, "We have never had to pay the Emergency Room bills on a deer". Think about it.

 

Cars are replaceable, family, friends and other motorists are not. HIT THE DEER, save a person.

Link to comment

Has anyone every used a weapon (come in contact by beating, stabbing, shooting, spraying - not just brandishing the weapon) to defend themselves against the 2-legged or 4-legged variety of animal while out geocaching?

I'm fortunate that I haven't needed to use my bear spray -- all the bears I have encountered have been far enough away that I could avoid them.

 

The canister I have "expires" this year so I plan to shoot it off after I buy a new one just so the first time I actually use it isn't when I REALLY need it.

 

It's very reassuring that no one has responded with a story about how they had to use their weapon in self defense while geocaching.

That's so very true....

 

Use of deadly force is a LAST resort. Anything else is a failure at one level or another.

 

Brandishing or allowing a weapon to be viewed by others is misuse. It is a singular-purpose tool. It has but one function -- to kill. It is not a tool to 'scare' others away, it is not intended to only wound, it is designed to kill and nothing else. No matter how proficient one may be in its' use, using it other than to kill is (IMO) unacceptable. If you want only to wound, your mind is in the wrong place. People and animals die from wounds. If you intend to only to wound, you had best rethink why you carry.

 

Sure, stopping a threat is the general idea, and wounding usually stops a threat. Stopping a threat without killing is good, but you cannot intend to wound without the possibility of killing. Should your intent be other than killing -- leave it at home, or at a minimum do not put it into your hands. A firearm is deadly force, no matter how you intend on using it. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

 

If you aren't prepared to handle the consequences, don't even think about putting it into use. Trust me, even with that preparation of accepting the consequences, more often than not, they are difficult to bear.

 

Excellent words and well spoken. I am pro 2nd Ad, own firearms and do carry.

Link to comment

All of the situations I've been in where my firearm could have had to be used in a defensive manner, have not ended that way. All of this situations save one was in the desert with wild animals. One time was while geocaching.

 

1. I had been out target shooting with some friends and had left my .45 on my hip for the trip back into town. I decided to stop off at a convenient store to get a drink. I happened to walk in while someone had a snub nosed revolver pointed at the clerks face, demanding money. I was young, pretty oblivious at the time, and just stopped. Not even remembering I was armed. The guy turned, looked at me, stopped pointing the gun at anyone for a few seconds, then set it down and ran out of the store. The best I can figure is he saw my .45 and wanted none of it. It turns out his revolver was unloaded. It was right then and there that I decided carrying a gun for self defense was a good idea, and that being aware of my surroundings at all times is critical - I could have seen what was going on inside through the window and called the cops much earlier.

 

2. Camping in the Rincon Mountains, east of Tucson: stepped on a rattlesnake. Growing up, in my family, rattlesnakes were generally on a kill-on-sight status. It was spring, I'm guessing it had just come out of hibernation. It didn't rattle as I approached unaware of it. I stepped right on it. I felt something move under my foot, lifted and it took off into a rock outcropping. It was the fastest I'd ever seen one move. I think I scared it just as much as it scared me.

 

3. Deer hunting in the Tortilitas, NW of Tucson. Stalked by a mountain lion. The dang thing was actually STALKING us. We'd walk, it'd follow about 75 yards back. We'd stop, he would stop. At one point we worked down into this little wash with a 12 foot tall steep bank on one side. He moved up above us to the top of the bank looking down on us. Eventually he just moved on.

 

4. Geocaching: finding a cache along the Rillito River(dry wash) that runs through Tucson. Coyotes like to run in this at night. This was back when I first started caching, before I took a LONG break (wish I could remember my old username!) I was grabbing the last cache of the day, going down the trail the runs alongside the wash towards the cache, the sun had just left the horizon. A pack of 6 or more coyotes were shadowing me down in the wash, not unlike how the mountain lion was in the last story. One actually moved up and approached me, sniffing at me from about 3 feet away. I shouted at it and they all ran off.

Link to comment

That's my point exactly. Around here not only do you carry guns you often use them and not for people. They are as you said tools. You use them around the ranch just like a hammer of an chain saw.

 

I was taught how to use a firearm at about 5 years old and was expected to use it. I never wanted to 'play' with my father's weapons any more than I want to 'play' with the table saw in his shop. They were both tools that could hurt you if misuseed.

Yes we would go shooting, but that was to improve my skill not to go blast something.

 

There seems to be a culture divide that seperates people when comes to firarms. Many hate the sight of them and think they are wrong in any way. Some think that they are bling and status symbols. Other that they are toys and just for sport. Then there is the ever shrinking group that see them as just an object that you need in your life to make better and easier.

This reflects my experience as well as I grew up in a rural area. The firearms were 'tools' and one could be found in the truck just as we often had a chainsaw or ax in the truck as well. We were taught all the rules about safe gun handling and would ridicule any friend who violated one of the rules. As we got older, a 22 rifle was a standard coming-of-age gift. In our house, and our friends houses, there were guns that were valued bacause "dad' or "mom' or "grandpa" had gotten it as a kid and they were appreciated for their historical value & craftsmanship.

 

In college, I moved to the "big city" to pick up a couple of college degrees. One of the biggest culture shocks was how differently guns were viewed. Instead of being considered a 'tool' or some 'inanimate object', such as a jack. For many, I found, guns were an 'evil' object that caused bad things to happen. They took on an anthropomorphic quality. What once was a normal part of conversation became "the thing that darest not speak its name".

 

Today, I'm not a "gun nut" or a hunter. If I'm in someone's home and I see a rifle I'll admire the craftsmanship - perhaps asking for the story behind it (there's always a story). If a fellow geocacher has a gun for self-defense I consider it akin to owning a fire extinguisher or home insurance.

 

For my part, I'm a big guy with a martial arts background. My primary source of self-defense is just not putting myself into dangerous situations (people who've seen me cache can laugh at that statement :rolleyes: ). I do carry a knife (and know how to fight with one) but I don't consider it of much self-defense use for the kind of caching I typically do. It's a tool.

 

Culture test: My first thought when I saw the picture of the cacher carrying an AR was "man, that's a lot of extra weight to have carried on that hike". :lol:

Link to comment

No. Not at the ranges you're talking about. A handgun is much easier to use at close range.

True.

 

Plus a hand gun has more stopping power. You want to put as much energy into the target as possible. A rifle will punch through your target leaving a smaller hole, while the handgun will delivery all it's force into the target.

You are used to military ball ammo. As someone who was a professional rifle shooter (sniper) and terminal ballistics instructor, I can assure you that with the right ammo choices, this is not at all true. A .300 Magnum rifle cartridge delivers more foot-pounds of energy at 1,200 yards than a .44 magnum pistol delivers at the muzzle, and a properly selected bullet will deliver all of the energy to the target.

 

Sorry to take this so far off-topic.

Edited by Sky King 36
Link to comment

I always carry my folding 4 in knife and a hiking pole as they have kept me from poking my fingers into spots I shouldn't and aided me in extracting caches frequently. I'm currently caching "the south" (CA is my home) and found myself totally unprepared for Poison Ivy but other than that lack of judgement I am very aware of my inexperience with the "fawna" and will only attempt caches were I am very sure there is no danger.

Edited by klipsch49er
Link to comment

No. Not at the ranges you're talking about. A handgun is much easier to use at close range.

True.

 

Plus a hand gun has more stopping power. You want to put as much energy into the target as possible. A rifle will punch through your target leaving a smaller hole, while the handgun will delivery all it's force into the target.

You are used to military ball ammo. As someone who was a professional rifle shooter (sniper) and terminal ballistics instructor, I can assure you that with the right ammo choices, this is not at all true. A .300 Magnum rifle cartridge delivers more foot-pounds of energy at 1,200 yards than a .44 magnum pistol delivers at the muzzle, and a properly selected bullet will deliver all of the energy to the target.

 

Sorry to take this so far off-topic.

That's very true.

 

It's my military background coming through. I never use ball ammo anymore, but when I talk stopping power my brain reverts to prior programming.

 

Edit to keep things on topic

Edited by Totem Clan
Link to comment

Does the 3" blade on my Leatherman count? I'm like many others, American and a gun owner--but I rarely take them with me unless I'm specifically going shooting. Sometimes I'll keep my pistol in the trunk of the car if I'm going out of state with the family.

 

Best caching protection in my opinion is my mangy labrador, just don't feed him too much and he'll always be ready to bite something bad_boy_animated.gif

Link to comment

Does the 3" blade on my Leatherman count? I'm like many others, American and a gun owner--but I rarely take them with me unless I'm specifically going shooting. Sometimes I'll keep my pistol in the trunk of the car if I'm going out of state with the family.

 

Best caching protection in my opinion is my mangy labrador, just don't feed him too much and he'll always be ready to bite something bad_boy_animated.gif

I usually have a firearm in the car, but I do not usually carry while caching. The last time I carried while caching was when I did the El Camino del Diablo series outside of Yuma

Link to comment

I try to carry as many weapons as possible. I have three knifes. Boot Knife, Regular knife (In back Pocket),and my Survival knife. I also carry a BEar Grylls Parang Machete. It is a good blade to cut brush and kill snakes. I also carry two pistols. Beretta and a .25 the .25 is for back up. I also always bring a sawed off shotgun. You never know when you will have to kill a couple of wolves or a zombie. If i am going in the woods further than a mile I bring my Ar-15. It will see you through anything. Oh and I always wear my snake skin boots just in case.

Link to comment

I guess if I was doing a cache that I could get seriously lost while doing I might for survival reasons. I know it is hard to get lost with a GPS with you, But batteries do die and my kids know if their toys run out of batteries my Geo-bag has batteries in it. I have reached for the spares and found them gone before. Lucky for me I had my E-trax back up with me to borrow batteries from.

Link to comment

There is only one thing I am afraid of: the domestic dog. Yes, pet dogs. I hike in suburban park trails over 300 miles a year and am attacked, cornered or bit several times a year. Every member of my family has been bit by dogs, doing nothing more than walking or skateboarding. I have tried ignoring, staring, not staring, growling back – nothing works because they are unpredictable. I have encountered bears, moose, coyotes, and they are more predictable.

 

One of the worse experiences of my life was being double-teamed by two pit bulls. They were very skillful in their attack. Today I did a 3 mile exercise hike on my favorite trails. I came across 8 people walking their dogs, 4 not on leashes, ignoring the leash law. Most dogs are nice, but maybe one out of 20 is not, especially when they get ahead of their owner on the trail. And some dogs are stupid – I saw one chase a rabbit through cactus and get hundreds of thorns in its face and body. Perhaps there are too many bad dog owners here.

 

So, regarding what I carry for self protection, in order of what I might use:

 

1. Dual trekking poles. This baffles some dogs and I practice some “windmill” techniques hoping to scare. Since I have these in hand this is what I rely on. But they are thin aluminum and would bend if used as a club.

2. High decibel screaming alarm with flashing light. I stopped a charging dog once with this small but loud device.

3. 350,000 volt stun zapper. A dog once stopped with the noise and sparks. I have been told that this is often effective as they do not like the noise. I have not touched it to a dog, and do not want to get that close.

4. 3.5 inch folding knife. Again, do not want to get that close, so have not used this.

5. Pepper spray. I have this deep in my pack because the frequent breezes will probably blow it back at me. Never used.

 

I had a metal rod 15 inches long, ½ inch diameter, but was told this is probably illegal to carry so I do not. And of course, no one can get a firearm permit in Calif.

Link to comment
5. Pepper spray. I have this deep in my pack because the frequent breezes will probably blow it back at me.

 

Take a look at the Kimber Jetblaster (consumer) and JPX (professional grade) chemical weapons, they use a small pyrotechnic charge to blast a thick gel OC spray that can't blow back. Highly regarded by LE.

Link to comment

No. Not at the ranges you're talking about. A handgun is much easier to use at close range.

True.

 

Plus a hand gun has more stopping power. You want to put as much energy into the target as possible. A rifle will punch through your target leaving a smaller hole, while the handgun will delivery all it's force into the target.

You are used to military ball ammo. As someone who was a professional rifle shooter (sniper) and terminal ballistics instructor, I can assure you that with the right ammo choices, this is not at all true. A .300 Magnum rifle cartridge delivers more foot-pounds of energy at 1,200 yards than a .44 magnum pistol delivers at the muzzle, and a properly selected bullet will deliver all of the energy to the target.

 

Sorry to take this so far off-topic.

but the 44 mag makes louder bang and that might just be enough to scare off the animal.

my 92FS was enough to scare a coyote away. no i didn't shoot AT the animal[but if it kept coming at me I would have shot it.]

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Followers 6
×
×
  • Create New...