Jump to content

New Maps - HORRID!


Recommended Posts

Plan B would be to copy-and-paste the coordinates, open another browser window, and use Google Maps to display the coordinates. But that's rather awkward to do repeatedly.

...or use the GSAK macro.

...or use the "Google Maps" link located on each and every cache page. This will do exactly what you describe as Plan B, all in one click.

I mentioned that in the part that you snipped: "A workaround is to use the small inset Google map on the cache listing page, but I'm not sure how long that will continue to be an option."

Link to comment

We use the satellite view a lot when planning a cache run. It helps to know if a cache is in the woods or a empty lot or parking lot. With the new change it's does not always show the info.

 

It looks like our work around will be to do a PQ or two of the greater area and view it with Google World (which we also use a lot anyway). Both the LOC file or GPX file work just fine. Its not perfect, but it will have to do for now.

Link to comment

Plan B would be to copy-and-paste the coordinates, open another browser window, and use Google Maps to display the coordinates. But that's rather awkward to do repeatedly.

...or use the GSAK macro.

...or use the "Google Maps" link located on each and every cache page. This will do exactly what you describe as Plan B, all in one click.

I mentioned that in the part that you snipped: "A workaround is to use the small inset Google map on the cache listing page, but I'm not sure how long that will continue to be an option."

Nope, I snipped that part because that's not what I was referring to. To the left of the inset Google map, there are a series of links under the heading "For online maps...". One of them is called "Google Maps", and will open a new Google Map window pre-filled with the cache coordinates. See below on the left:

j78bol.jpg

Link to comment

There's apparently no way to do a street/satellite hybrid map anymore, which was what I always used before. Also, the Mapquest sat maps look positively blurry compared to how good the Google ones are. Man, what a bummer. Hopefully they can make these work faster soon!

 

Sure there is!

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=N+28%C2%B0+40.502+W+081%C2%B0+18.864+(GC3AKTZ)+&ie=UTF8&ll=28.675017,-81.314354&spn=0.000879,0.002064&t=h&z=20

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=N+28%C2%B0+40.502+W+081%C2%B0+18.864+(GC3AKTZ)+&ie=UTF8&ll=28.674787,-81.314673&spn=0.000879,0.002064&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=28.674787,-81.314673&panoid=yLgaQEdc8NzQojO7c5qxwA&cbp=12,42.17,,0,0.18

Link to comment

The new maps are working fine for me at first glance

At second glance, I really love the new maps! I checked some areas around Las Vegas, where I'll be doing some caching next month. It's great to be able to switch between roadmap, satellite, and sat with some trails/dirt roads marked. All the caches I've found on previous trips are marked just like they should be. The only thing I don't like is the +/- instead of the slider, but I can deal with that.

(I'm really trying to get a FTBO (First to be offended) on one of these updates, but I'm just too dadgum slow.) :lol:

Link to comment

The new maps basically eliminate the aerial/satellite view option for some areas.

 

But Google maps are still available on individual cache pages. They just only show a single cache and not all other caches around. I do not think that it is that important to have a satellite view of all caches in an area at the same time.

 

Cezanne

The problem I have with the cache page map is it does not show a close enough view. I like to zoom in with the satellite view to get an idea of what kind of area I will be searching IE...tree cover, parking lot, playground etc. Of course the speed of the map loading is pretty bad. Hopefully the frog can make a deal with Google and we can have our maps back.

Link to comment

Plan B would be to copy-and-paste the coordinates, open another browser window, and use Google Maps to display the coordinates. But that's rather awkward to do repeatedly.

...or use the GSAK macro.

...or use the "Google Maps" link located on each and every cache page. This will do exactly what you describe as Plan B, all in one click.

I mentioned that in the part that you snipped: "A workaround is to use the small inset Google map on the cache listing page, but I'm not sure how long that will continue to be an option."

Nope, I snipped that part because that's not what I was referring to. To the left of the inset Google map, there are a series of links under the heading "For online maps...". One of them is called "Google Maps", and will open a new Google Map window pre-filled with the cache coordinates. See below on the left:

j78bol.jpg

Thanks for the info. I tried that and it works pretty good. It doesn't show the other caches in the area but it is still close to the old map.

Link to comment

I sure do like the way that the PQs section shows only the caches included in the PQ... that is a nice enhancement.

 

I was struck by the slowness immediately, and the fact that google was missing (which has been explained). Of the two, I care way more about the speed. Obviously many ideas have been mentioned to help with the complaints, and they are good suggestions.

 

I'm a really big OSM fan, and I think this has the potential to be really good for OSM, perhaps it will motivate more people to contribute. I know it doesn't help with the sat images, but hey... you can't see the trails on those! :lol:

 

Anyway, in terms of addressing the google issue, I wonder if Goundspeak might do the whole google maps things as an add on to your membership so that the folks who would like to have those maps back can be the ones to pay for it. That way the folks who don't care, don't have to pay and the ones who care can pay... if they care enough that is.

 

Just my 2 bits.

Link to comment

It might just be me, but I noticed that there is no distance scale (or whatever it's called) on the Mapquest map.

 

Otherwise, I like the cleaner look and I'll bet the load time will speed up in the next little while.

 

Just another piece of data that shows the scope of the problem. Doesn't anyone at GC.com realize that a scaleless map is useless.

Edited by edscott
Link to comment

MUCH poorer image quality on aerial photos. Only half the zoom, and even at that point not even close in quality. I'd say the resolution is barely a tenth of the GM images, certainly not more than a fifth, in each dimension. This is very serious for the places I go caching.

 

And those much poorer images are loading very slowly and unreliably.

 

So while I wouldn't call the maps overall horrid, I think that horrid is a pretty accurate description of the aerial images.

 

While I'm glad GS investigated, I personally would rather pay an additional $10/year for better aerials. (I'm assuming 300,000 PMs and the calculated cost of $3 million in new costs. We of course don't actually know how many PMs there are.)

 

There's also the question of how long these other services will be free. They aren't selling any advertising on the GS pages. I'm certain that Google knows it has competitors, and I expect they priced their service to undercut anyone else who is charging enough to make a living. And with Google charging for map loads, the other services will be hit with all the freeloaders like GS dumping Google for the next free service in line. How long before GS has to change again anyway, running away from paying for services? My guess is that within a year or two, there won't be any free service for this purpose which even comes close to being acceptable. GS has gone to all this work only to postpone the inevitable. Servers and bandwidth cost a lot of money, and someone pays for them or they go dark.

 

Edward

Link to comment
Doesn't anyone at GC.com realize that a scaleless map is useless.

 

I can find plenty of use in a scaleless map. Most importantly seeing where caches are. I've never used the scale on the GC.com map before; all I need to know is if a cache is close or not. I can see that by looking at a map, with or without a scale.

 

But hey, that's just me.

Edited by Mitragorz
Link to comment

...or use the "Google Maps" link located on each and every cache page. This will do exactly what you describe as Plan B, all in one click.

I mentioned that in the part that you snipped: "A workaround is to use the small inset Google map on the cache listing page, but I'm not sure how long that will continue to be an option."

Nope, I snipped that part because that's not what I was referring to. To the left of the inset Google map, there are a series of links under the heading "For online maps...". One of them is called "Google Maps", and will open a new Google Map window pre-filled with the cache coordinates.

Indeed there is. Thanks for the tip. However, if Groundspeak is phasing out Google, then I wonder how long this link will continue to exist. Good to have a Plan B.

Link to comment

the detail is actually better. People here complain to much.

So I checked out the maps to see what all the fuss is about. Wow. Bodies of water aren't on the street map views. No sat view. I'm not seeing the 'better detail'. But I understand wanting to save the millions of dollars. I'll get used to the maps over time. And I'll get used to copying coordinates over to the Google maps site.

 

Wait, I take back the sat view statement. If you mess around with it for awhile, eventually pictures load in a few areas...

Link to comment

At first I thought cool, I can use them on my iPad, loaded quick scaled quick, all is well........except can't click on a cache to get the info.

 

Also, I used satellite images a lot so that will be a big loss. (my area won't load even after10 minutes)

 

Personally I'd pay more for the google maps if it were and option, how much more I'm not quite sure.

Edited by Roman!
Link to comment

OSM are actually very good indeed when they are working speedily, and better than the basic google map.

 

I prefered to use OSM on the options tab of the old menu anyway. For me, OSM is more detailed and shows more hiking tracks. What I am missing is the terrain map though, as OSM doesn't show the contours and a hiking path can have large rises and falls to get to a cache. I also have no satellite view for my location now. Still, it is fully understandable why Groundspeak have ditched google maps.

 

Hi Simdel,

What you want is the OpenCycleMaps - which are esentially OSM maps with the contours.

 

I'm actually glad this has happened. It will give more prominence to OSM and hopefully we will see more people working with and contributing to OSM financially as well as with their time and tracks.

Link to comment

I think the Open Street Maps are terrible. The cache pop up boxes on them look very poorly designed and in contrast to the nice rounded edges found elsewhere. OSM's satellite data is painfully slow and outdated in a good majority of my state, where Google Maps had 2011 USDA 1m data. At least you can copy the coordinates directly off a cache page and paste them in to a browser tab in Google Maps and have the better sat imagery. Does this also affect API usage in Google Earth? Not that it was very handy with the 100m skew anyway...

 

What is the price difference in real dollars if a realistic number of users were willing to pay for it?

Link to comment

I just used the maps and they weren't slow at all. They seemed just fine.

I think everyone was using them at once this afternoon.

 

They look different, but I found no trouble in using them or adjusting to them at all.

 

Every time there is a change in the maps, everyone screams about it, and then they adjust.

Humans hate change. It will be okay.

 

 

PS. I really like the search function being right there with them.

Edited by Sol seaker
Link to comment

+1 Vote for HORRID!

 

Today when I wanted to go cacheing.. I bypassed the web site and just used my iPad/iPhone and the app, as well as using GSAK and iGeoKnife on my iPad & iPhone.

 

I am just glad that we now have API functionality from geocaching.com & GSAK, as well as the fact I loaded all 46,000+ geocaches for the state of Texas into GSAK.

 

However... even going that route wasn't my prefered or "Ideal" solution. I am sick and tired of having to use "work arounds" to make things work like I would like them too!

 

Sadly, as much as I don't like the new "maps".... I do realize that it ISN'T all geocaching.com's fault.

 

Mapping Data companies are all off in the "ozone". In google maps, for the DFW area at least, Google maps has an average of 4 errors per square mile average for DFW. When I went to get the new "update" for my Alpine Headunit in my Truck. They wanted $800! for the update. That was MORE expensive than the headunit cost me in the first place! Whats up with that??? A friend of mine wanted to update the GPS in his new 2010 Prius. They (Toyota) wanted $375 for the update! Whats up with that? Bing & Google no longer have download capability from ANY app or program.

 

I would suggest writing "Washington" and ask them to start "Regulating" mapping companies with stricter standards. However.... I will admit that probably woudn't help much anyways. As we (the consumers) would still get "Sc***D" just like we (consumers) were when copy right law changed & the DCMA.

 

But enough of the rant agains't the companies that provide the map data.

 

Just realize that it ISN'T all geocaching.com's fault, They (Groundspeak) STILL could do better about making the mapping system work faster, more effieciently, and without the other bugs of stuff not working.

 

TGC

Link to comment

I just checked out the Open Street Maps map for my 'suburb'... a connecting street to the left of me has the wrong name - the name was changed 10 years ago. a tributary street to the west of me is actually a Private Road for the residents. It also has this 'street' connecting to another road running along the back. The Private Road is a 'no exit' and the road running along the back doesn't exist. It never did. Its never been paved, and back in its hey day was about half a metre wide horsetrail through long grass!

 

Don't do it!

 

I'd way prefer to pay more for Premium membership and get googlemaps than go to that! Inferior!

Link to comment

Put me down for another dislike. I'm a premium member but I almost never use PQ's to find caches, just the map. While the latest offerings are usable, I found them to be somewhat antiquated and less than user friendly. I discovered the change this evening when I found myself waiting for a prescription to be filled and decided to look for a nearby cache while I waited. On my Sprint LG phone, the maps would only partially load, I could not scroll around and only a few caches were even displayed. On my AT&T iphone4, the maps loaded and would scroll but tapping the cache icons did nothing. So basically, I could see where caches were on the map but could not see which caches they were or link to their pages. I was just getting ready to spend the ten bucks on the iphone app too, but won't be now. Let's hope this is just a temporary fix until a better alternative can be applied.

Link to comment

Put me down for another dislike. I'm a premium member but I almost never use PQ's to find caches, just the map. While the latest offerings are usable, I found them to be somewhat antiquated and less than user friendly. I discovered the change this evening when I found myself waiting for a prescription to be filled and decided to look for a nearby cache while I waited. On my Sprint LG phone, the maps would only partially load, I could not scroll around and only a few caches were even displayed. On my AT&T iphone4, the maps loaded and would scroll but tapping the cache icons did nothing. So basically, I could see where caches were on the map but could not see which caches they were or link to their pages. I was just getting ready to spend the ten bucks on the iphone app too, but won't be now. Let's hope this is just a temporary fix until a better alternative can be applied.

 

On my iPhone if I use the app I can tap the caches if I use the map and I'll get the info but if I go to the website maps on my iPad I can not get cache info.

Link to comment

The cost isn't "millions of dollars".

 

The little chart and numbers that everyone keeps throwing around are for low volume customers only.

 

High volume customers (gc is quoting 2 million hits a day) only pay pennies compared to low volume users.

correct, but since Google doesn't release those costs to us we will use what we have for a comparison, and obviously if GS is moving away they didn't have a Business API license to begin with.

Link to comment

I think the Open Street Maps are terrible. The cache pop up boxes on them look very poorly designed and in contrast to the nice rounded edges found elsewhere. OSM's satellite data is painfully slow and outdated in a good majority of my state, where Google Maps had 2011 USDA 1m data. At least you can copy the coordinates directly off a cache page and paste them in to a browser tab in Google Maps and have the better sat imagery. Does this also affect API usage in Google Earth? Not that it was very handy with the 100m skew anyway...

 

What is the price difference in real dollars if a realistic number of users were willing to pay for it?

Sigh, OSM does not have satellite data. You, like so very many others here are confusing the OSM map with the default setting which is MapQuest. Your post should say you think the MapQuest Maps are terrible.

Link to comment

Okay, don't we get a choice in which map we would like to have? I mean, I am a premium member here. I do pay money here so that I can have better tools to use on this site, but instead, you down grade the map utility on this site. It used to be easy to log my finds by viewing the map, clicking on a cache icon, and if the "Visit Log" was a different colour than the other options, it meant, I have already been there. Now I can't tell. I have hundreds of caches to log and I have so far log some caches more than once, because I can't tell if I have already have. The options don't change colours to show I have already be there and done that anymore. Now it takes me more time to go back and check to see if I have already logged that cache. How does that rank as a premium tool. It doesn't. I find this new map with it new tools more than user-unfriendly.

Plus, when I go to look at my neighborhood, out of 8 streets on my block, only one has a name. All the others are blank. Then when I look at where I work, it list the street name that was changed over 15 years ago. Yea, all this is useful. There was a time when I tried to use MapQuest, but I keep finding problems with it. Out dated, lacking information, and it still shows my wife's work on the north side of the freeway, where it has always been residential houses. Her place of work is on the south side of the freeway, where it first started many years ago. I tried to notify MapQuest several times of their screw up, and no responses, I gave up. And that was only one example. There were many times I tried to point out other misinformation to their maps, and never have they responded or even showed that they tried to make any corrections.

Google on the other hand, well, yes, I also found problems, but when I pointed out their mistakes, they made corrections. I received responses from Google thanking me for pointing out errors with their maps. Yes, there is still mistakes to their maps, but they at least show they are trying to be more accurate. MapQuest, just blows me off.

So put me down for "DISLIKE" on the new map. It sucks.

Link to comment

But satellite maps also serve some useful purposes. When I'm urban caching, for example, I like to find paths between houses that lead to greenspaces where caches are located. OpenStreetMap often doesn't show those paths, but I usually can spot them with the satellite map.

 

A workaround is to use the small inset Google map on the cache listing page, but I'm not sure how long that will continue to be an option. Plan B would be to copy-and-paste the coordinates, open another browser window, and use Google Maps to display the coordinates. But that's rather awkward to do repeatedly.

Do you carry your laptop with you to look at while you're in the field? Or can you photographically remember the satellite view. I just don't see how a different map can be a huge problem. It's not going to look like that when you get there, unless you're arriving by helicopter. :)

Do you have a smart phone? Does it have an app that uses the maps you like?

Before I leave home, I'll often plan a route to the various caches I plan to visit. In the city, knowing where the path entrance is located can save lots of time and walking. No smart phone.

 

I am the same! before I leave home I know everything about where I'm heading - if its in a cityscape and the cache is in an alleyway - I like to know the best way to get there from a sat map. Also on parks - looking for the pathways, looking for unmarked trails in areas that aren't well mapped - looking for the obvious path into a cache if you head to that area. Generally with those ones the obvious path isn't obvious until after you find the cache...... so recon work before you leave home is a great idea.

Link to comment

For me - the only map that LOADED successfully was the first one in the list. All the others took too long, or didn't load at all. But the first one is choca full of mistakes - and being open sourced - I can see why.

 

Backwards steps that force people to work harder for what they previously had tend to have a negative flow on effect for the activity.

 

Frowny face - give me the option to pay for google. I will!

Link to comment

I guess this is an advantage of having been around forever. I have a lot of alternate tools that I can use to give me the information everyone else gets from the maps.

 

If all you folks really want the Google Maps API, why not get Clyde to add it to GSAK so you can view all the caches in your database on a Google Map?

Link to comment

I'm a trucker that likes to do some caching on the way at times. Now keep in mind, I said, I'm a trucker. That means, I'm driving a BIG TRUCK! The last thing I need is to try to make course corrections in a big rig. I have been all over the U.S. and rely on my GPS with the trucking option to get around. Sometimes, when I would have to go to new places, I would use my laptop to go online and use map sites to try to get a good idea of where I'm going, and what to expect. Too many times, Mapquest would not match my GPS,which makes things a little confusing, which just waste time in getting my loads there on time. Upon getting to the locations, I would find that the GPS is right, but Mapquest wasn't. When I took up Geocaching, I noticed the Geocaching site used Google maps. While using the maps on the Geocaching site, I also noticed what was on Google maps, always seem to match my GPS. So, I switched to Google maps and found the SAT views much more clearer to view than the Mapquest. This made getting to my locations on the jobs easier, which means faster, and also made finding caches easier, since I don't have a little car to drive around in like other cachers do.

Today, I tried to go for two caches while trying to use the new maps on Geocaching.com. First cache, looked like it was in the middle of a field, upon arrival, it was a mall parking lot. No place to park a big rig, or even drive it in. Thanks a lot. I found that useful. Big rigs don't make U-Turns like a car. Second cache, not so bad, but still not good. I was looking for Park Ave, and there wasn't one. Turned out that the street name was supposed to be Route 21. Again, not very helpful here. I'm driving around in a BIG RIG, so I need accurate information before I get there. I talked to some other friends that are GeoTruckers, and they all agreed, MAPQUEST SUCKS!!!!

When it comes to hauling, we all use Google maps. And when we go geocaching, WE ALL WANT GOOGLE MAPS!!!!

Mapquest is not trucker friendly, so how can it be Geocacher friendly?

If it cost more to use Google maps than Mapquest, there is most likely a good reason why Mapquest is cheaper. It diffidently less accurate, the SAT views are not only out dated, but also not as clear as Google, and there is no hybrid map, which is very helpful to us truckers.

Just let me know when April Fools is over, so I can get back to doing some geocaching again.

Edited by PestArel
Link to comment

The zoom on the satellite views sucks. Can't zoom in as much anymore. That was always a good feature before, but not now. Plus, trying to click on an event cache, but the previous one comes up first. Can't seem to click on the next event in the same location. Have to go back to the list of caches in the area, but there is so many of them. I feel like I took one step forward, but 10 steps back here. Question, how much more would it be to get the old map back? If it cost more, I'll pay it.

Also, new maps are very slow on loading. Many times, there are missing squares, but there will be a cache in those squares. Sure, I could create a database and load it into Google maps to view it that way, but hey, I'm a premium member. I thought that meant I would get premium features too. Why down grade the maps?

As for PQ, I could do that, but it was easier to just click on each cache and see what information there was. Now that it is less user friendly, that takes more time to do now. Did we do something to offend the powers that be? If we say we're sorry, then can we have Google maps back?

Link to comment

Yes the maps are a little slow, but the detail is actually better. People here complain to much.

Maybe in other areas the detail is better but in my area it is much much worse. It doesn't show parks, or schools or other landmarks like google maps does and a lot of the streets are wrong. According to these new maps the street I live on doesn't even exist! It is a pretty well traveled street and I lived there for seven years so its not like it is new. These new maps are pretty much worthless to me. Bring back google maps!

Link to comment

Yes the maps are a little slow, but the detail is actually better. People here complain to much.

Maybe in other areas the detail is better but in my area it is much much worse. It doesn't show parks, or schools or other landmarks like google maps does and a lot of the streets are wrong. According to these new maps the street I live on doesn't even exist! It is a pretty well traveled street and I lived there for seven years so its not like it is new. These new maps are pretty much worthless to me. Bring back google maps!

 

If your street is missing from OpenStreetMap you could just add it. All it takes is a GPS tracklog and a few moments of your time.

 

For those of us that are missing Aerial it is less easy to solve. But I will live, using the GSAK Google Macro and such. This is not Groudspeak's fault and it is interesting that both Google and Bing have taken this stace with the third parties using their map data.

 

I noticed this coming a while back when several iPhone apps, including the Geocaching one had to change their map usage.

Link to comment

At first I thought cool, I can use them on my iPad, loaded quick scaled quick, all is well........except can't click on a cache to get the info.

 

Also, I used satellite images a lot so that will be a big loss. (my area won't load even after10 minutes)

 

Personally I'd pay more for the google maps if it were and option, how much more I'm not quite sure.

 

Check out geo bucket, its made for the Ipad, its free, I have a Ipad2 wi-fi only version, it allows you to access your PQs online, and it downloads them to your offline map, you can use it in the field, and its really awesome. It has ads at the bottom of the map, no pop ups, and u can pay 4 bucks to get rid of them, the ads dont bother me. I really like it and plan to use my ipad to navigate to caches and then the dakota when on foot.

 

Also I don't blame GS, Google can suck it, first they change thier privacy policy, to basically be able to track everything you do and watch and purchase, and tell you some crap about trying to make a better internet, when in truth it is to sell to businesses to make money. Now they decide to start charging for maps that have been free forever. Wonder how they feel now that they just lost 2 million hits a day??? I bet thats a huge chunk in thier hits.

 

Edit to add:

 

I actually like the OSM maps, except I cant believe there is huge bodies of water missing in my area, also there is a national forest near by and it is not identified....I've already made a OSM account, and look forward to contribute to hiking trails taht arent on the map. I wish they had a legend, so I can tell the different between a hiking trail or some dirt road trail, I've seen purple dotted lines and brown dotted lines, How the heck do u have bodies of water added? Like a giant lake near a major city lol

Edited by TheLoneGrangers
Link to comment

And here is why OpenStreetMap is cool - one cacher has found the path, they can edit OSM, add the path, and the next cacher will be able to find it. Without using the satellite imagery. So if OSM doesn't show them, you can add them fairly easily.

 

Agree. There are some local Management Areas that have loads of trails that Google doesn't show. A local hiker/biker added many of them to the OSM!

 

Perhaps GC.com can post a Knowledge Book article (or how-to video) on how to add data to OSM. We are all out in the woods, probably storing our tracks as a matter of course. I bet in a couple of weeks us cachers can make significant improvements in the off-road portions of themaps.

Link to comment

I haven't checked other areas but I have noticed something that might make things harder for the Reviews at least the one for the Virginia Beach area. There are a couple of Military Bases in the area. On the old maps they bases were outlined so you could clearly tell where their boarders are. None of the new maps that I saw show the fence lines of areas off limits to the general public.

Link to comment

I haven't checked other areas but I have noticed something that might make things harder for the Reviews at least the one for the Virginia Beach area. There are a couple of Military Bases in the area. On the old maps they bases were outlined so you could clearly tell where their boarders are. None of the new maps that I saw show the fence lines of areas off limits to the general public.

 

The reviewers have access to resources we do not. Hopefully those resources have the extra info you refer to.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...