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OpinioNate

Geocaching.com site update Feb 14th, 2012

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If the calculations are right $2,880,000 per year. That means 96,000 premium member accounts, I doubt there are that many premium members.

 

That also means the money would not go anywhere else. (Programmers, customer support, etc).

.

 

Geocaching.com boasts 5 million geocachers worldwide I'm sure there ate more than 96,000 premium members a lot more

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Horrible. You can add all the other bugfixes and features you want, but take away real maps (other than urban areas) and you've lost me. H-U-G-E disappointment. Maybe Google needs to read this forum thread to see how they've affected the thousands of cachers around the world.

Please Groundspeak Google, fix this.

Fixed your post for ya.

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I wonder what would happen to their profitability if all the reviewers decided to stop working for them for free. I tell you, that's quite a racket they have going!

Shhhh! :lol:

Edited by Dgwphotos
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1) It's obvious that Groundspeak didn't want to pay the new Google fees for using their maps in the quantity that is generated. That is why they switched to the OSM maps. They have flat out said that is why they switched.

2) It's ridiculous to complain about something that isn't even 24 hours old yet. The bugs will get worked out quickly. They always do. Complaining about it, is not going to get it done any faster.

 

Just wait and see how it goes. Now if it's not working right in a week, THEN you have room to complain. You can't please everybody all of the time.

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+100000000000!

 

I regard Google Earth as a viable alternative, plus it's very flexible. I have the GE KML viewer, and use a GSAK macro that adds the cache exclusion circle. (the .10th of a mile distance between caches)

C:geo does with exclusion circles in red

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Ouch. Just look at the differences:

 

mapsez.jpg

Ouch? I see all the same information (if not more), with different colours and some labels not visible at that zoom level. Besides the lack of a scale, what would you wish was in the lower one that's in the upper one? All I see is a very well-mapped OSM area. Kudos to the Dutch OSM mappers.

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How many premium members will there be after the price hike? Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

Fewer premium members = fewer hits on the maps = lower cost for those who stay

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1) It's obvious that Groundspeak didn't want to pay the new Google fees for using their maps in the quantity that is generated. That is why they switched to the OSM maps. They have flat out said that is why they switched.

2) It's ridiculous to complain about something that isn't even 24 hours old yet. The bugs will get worked out quickly. They always do. Complaining about it, is not going to get it done any faster.

 

Just wait and see how it goes. Now if it's not working right in a week, THEN you have room to complain. You can't please everybody all of the time.

+1

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How many premium members will there be after the price hike? Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

Fewer premium members = fewer hits on the maps = lower cost for those who stay

Lower cost = more premium members = more hits on the maps

And round and round in a circle it goes. Eventually it would settle out at a steady-state, but who knows what level that would be at.

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1) It's obvious that Groundspeak didn't want to pay the new Google fees for using their maps in the quantity that is generated. That is why they switched to the OSM maps. They have flat out said that is why they switched.

2) It's ridiculous to complain about something that isn't even 24 hours old yet. The bugs will get worked out quickly. They always do. Complaining about it, is not going to get it done any faster.

 

Just wait and see how it goes. Now if it's not working right in a week, THEN you have room to complain. You can't please everybody all of the time.

Duke is right complaining about won't do nothing I mean look at it this way we asked for virtuals and got challenges. We complained and we told to deal with it I remember seeing many threads closed about challenges by the higher ups. Maybe Google will see an opportunity in this and buy but then again they don't listen to their customers either just look at the googles new privacy policy

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If the calculations are right $2,880,000 per year. That means 96,000 premium member accounts, I doubt there are that many premium members.

 

That also means the money would not go anywhere else. (Programmers, customer support, etc).

.

 

Geocaching.com boasts 5 million geocachers worldwide I'm sure there ate more than 96,000 premium members a lot more

 

I jumped to cacherstats.com Only 75,000 cachers have found more than 500 caches. There may be 5,000,000 accounts, but the vast number are casual users, that find a few caches a year. Yes the hard core cachers, or those that do it regularly are members, but most are not, and only find a few caches a month.

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Maybe removal of google maps, especially satellite view is the most visible change for all, but what I am really missing is old style maps, previously default, maybe they was a bit slower, but exact and crips clear with reasonable caches icon size,

very usefull list and displayed exact number of caches showed on current map view. You just made a not so good beta map default and completely removed good old map without prior notice, what a shame. At least please let the old maps running as the was. The "new" map is stil in beta/alpha state and very immature! Did you ever zoom out the "new" map? If yes, probably you will notice, that there is no map at all, it is overlapped with the high density of cache icons and you have no idea of location... Until the "new" map will not have a meaningfull settings of density per zoom level and icon size settings, it will remain very immature beta. So again, at least please let the old maps running as the was.

 

p.s. maybe you should try to close the office for a day and go caching to some foreign city and try to plan that trip on your "new" map using lets say 20-30" lcd as most of geocachers do. Then please answer yourself if it was a pain or a pleasure to do the plan...

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What about Satalite maps with road overlay... otherwise known as hybrid maps?????

 

TGC

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Question...

 

I understand about the decesion of Google maps.

 

What about using Bing Maps? Is their pricing structure similar to Google maps?

 

What about using Bing Hybrid Satalite Maps?

 

Mapquest Aerial maps that are now being used, don't have the "picture" quality that is available in other satalite maps. The other issue is that it doesn't have Roads overlay. (Hybrid Mode).

 

Thanks

 

TGC

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If the calculations are right $2,880,000 per year. That means 96,000 premium member accounts, I doubt there are that many premium members.

 

That also means the money would not go anywhere else. (Programmers, customer support, etc).

.

 

Geocaching.com boasts 5 million geocachers worldwide I'm sure there ate more than 96,000 premium members a lot more

 

I jumped to cacherstats.com Only 75,000 cachers have found more than 500 caches. There may be 5,000,000 accounts, but the vast number are casual users, that find a few caches a year. Yes the hard core cachers, or those that do it regularly are members, but most are not, and only find a few caches a month.

Well maybe they should stop using 5,000,000 as a sales point and yes that's what it is. Their saying look at our product look at how many people we have using it. The other thing I want to point out is the fact that 12 years ago this started as an experiment that took off like a rocket and it works because We as the users create the community WE build the database WE place the hides We make the finds some are basic and some are premium some are charter We are a source of the revenue as well as advertisements for trackables and sway and gps's that we buy so why is it that when we say we don't like where our sport that we create and continue to build on is heading in a downward direction we are just told to deal with it. It seems our opinions don't matter just like when we asked for virtuals to come back you give us challenges that we could mark as complete with a photo from 6 years ago or with a picture somefound on Google search do you really care about our concerns or are we just a few tools in a large toolbox that help you make your paycheck fortunately I pay my premium membership quarterly which I do just to give a little more to the sport so I pay $40 dollars a,year for my PM, with moves that seem to take us 4 or 5 steps backwards its hard to say that I want to continue to pay that amount when I feel that my voice as well as others is falling upon deaf ears. I say let's take into consideration what other choices we have besides Google are there others because if you listen OSM is not it.

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If the calculations are right $2,880,000 per year. That means 96,000 premium member accounts, I doubt there are that many premium members.

 

That also means the money would not go anywhere else. (Programmers, customer support, etc).

.

 

Geocaching.com boasts 5 million geocachers worldwide I'm sure there ate more than 96,000 premium members a lot more

 

I jumped to cacherstats.com Only 75,000 cachers have found more than 500 caches. There may be 5,000,000 accounts, but the vast number are casual users, that find a few caches a year. Yes the hard core cachers, or those that do it regularly are members, but most are not, and only find a few caches a month.

 

Plenty of us Premium Members only find a few caches a month and have fewer than 500 finds. Not everyone is after the numbers.

 

The bigger question is not what is the precise number of Premium Members, but what fraction of the daily Google Maps calls are made by Premium Members? If Premium Members are only responsible for a fraction of the Google Maps calls, then the increase in P.M. dues would not be large if Google Maps were reinstated for P.M.s.

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What about using Bing Maps? Is their pricing structure similar to Google maps?

I can't find any info on pricing (see below), but it appear that the threshold level below which the maps are free, is far lower than that of Google's.

 

Bing: Limit of 125,000 sessions or 500,000 transactions in a 12 month period

Google: Usage limit (per day): 25,000

 

Geocaching.com usage averages well over 2,000,000 hits per day.

 

Edit: I found some info from 2 years ago on Bing's pricing: $8000 for 1,000,000 transactions, which is twice Google's price. :blink:

 

Further, according to that page, they define a "transaction" as 8 map tiles, where Google defines a "hit" as simply loading the map; user movement (panning) does not add to usage.

 

Granted, other deals may be available in the quantity we use, but it still doesn't sound like a feasible solution.

Edited by Lil Devil
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+100000000000!

 

I regard Google Earth as a viable alternative, plus it's very flexible. I have the GE KML viewer, and use a GSAK macro that adds the cache exclusion circle. (the .10th of a mile distance between caches)

C:geo does with exclusion circles in red

Great, if you have an Android Smart Phone.... I don't.

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Right now, the new maps are pretty bad. Google Maps is WAY better. Where I live, here's what I observe:

 

1. No scale when zooming in or out. Hmmm, that cache is only 1/10th of a mile away or is it 10 miles away?

2. Zoom in / out is only useful if you have a mouse wheel. My map doesn't show the OSM zoom scale so I can quickly go from street to city zooms.

3. Twice as many (slow) mouse clicks to switch between topo, street and aerial views. The old beta way was much better!

4. You have to zoom in 2 to 4 times more to get street names than in Google Maps. (See I-270 and Page Ave in St. Louis, MO)

 

Is GC.com petitioning Google to change their licensing or grant a waver or a reduction in price?

 

Unhappy in St. Louis.

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Geocaching.com usage averages well over 2,000,000 hits per day.

 

That's a pretty big number. Now I wonder how well OSM is going to handle this. I would sure hope the GSP talked to OSM before unleashing this traffic on them.

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And GC.com is STILL using Google Maps on every single cache listing. Look at the map in the lower right hand corner. Hope Google doesn't notice.

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New maps do not work on IPad.

 

Can I get a refund on my membership as its now worthless.

Really? I logged on this afternoon, having not read the release notes, and was very pleased to see the map working on my iPad. This, after having fits earlier this week, when the Google maps did not work.

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I finally got around to checking out the new maps. For my area, they are OK. I could live with them if I had to, at least for local geocaching. However, the Google Maps are better, and I would be willing to pay $5-$10 more per year to have the Google Maps back.

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Eek! New maps look horrible IMO. While it may be all fine and dandy for American users (or maybe not in some areas!) other locations without as many contributors are simply useless. New Zealand for example, coverage is pathetic. They also look nowhere near as clean or sleek. Plus the entire geocaching maps UI has taken a step backwards in terms of its looks aswell.

 

I'd pay money just to get Google Maps back. Until then, I can't see much use in Geocaching Maps. Bye Bye - they won't be missed in their current form.

 

Sorry to be so harsh - but that's the plain truth. :)

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Further, according to that page, they define a "transaction" as 8 map tiles, where Google defines a "hit" as simply loading the map; user movement (panning) does not add to usage.

So if sooner and pans don't add to usage what if we all just promise that once we open it we leave it open

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[Edited by Moderator.]

 

What a bunch on unappreciative people, threatening to not pay your premium membership, [Edited]

 

You actually use that map? [Edited] - there are way better solutions.

Edited by Keystone
Resized and cleansed of attacks and insults
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The new maps showed up as a bonus feature a year ago or two, and everyone was ecstatic.

Now the bonus feature is gone (well, you'd think it was gone), and listen to the complaints.

 

So we're back where we were a couple of years ago, and still at the same price. Shrug.

 

And Google Earth still works as well as ever.

 

BTW, I think all those people who are cancelling their premium memberships in a huff should instead boycott Google, not Groundspeak. Yeah, try living for a while without Google...

 

EDIT: Frank - tone it down!

Edited by Viajero Perdido
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Whoa! I think they've introduced a new bug into the forum code! The text in Frank's post seems unnecessarily large. <_<

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Further, according to that page, they define a "transaction" as 8 map tiles, where Google defines a "hit" as simply loading the map; user movement (panning) does not add to usage.

So if sooner and pans don't add to usage what if we all just promise that once we open it we leave it open

 

At least impossible because of bug, let the map open for a while and all the caches will be marked as you never found them.

And second thing is what GS did not clearly stated, maybe there is not just excessive usage of google map servers, there is maybe the point that GS resell own product with google map inclded without to pay google for maps. I gues google insist on using business /paid/ api.

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Eek! New maps look horrible IMO. While it may be all fine and dandy for American users (or maybe not in some areas!) other locations without as many contributors are simply useless. New Zealand for example, coverage is pathetic. They also look nowhere near as clean or sleek. Plus the entire geocaching maps UI has taken a step backwards in terms of its looks aswell.

 

I'd pay money just to get Google Maps back. Until then, I can't see much use in Geocaching Maps. Bye Bye - they won't be missed in their current form.

 

Sorry to be so harsh - but that's the plain truth. :)

 

I disagree Luke. I think NZ is well served by OSM mapping. Did you look at the OSM Cycling layer?

 

18b40f27-530b-417c-acae-c79ba0965a46.jpg

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Whoa! I think they've introduced a new bug into the forum code! The text in Frank's post seems unnecessarily large. <_<

I think Frank forgot he was inside and was using his outside football voice.

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Ouch. Just look at the differences:

 

mapsez.jpg

Ouch? I see all the same information (if not more), with different colours and some labels not visible at that zoom level. Besides the lack of a scale, what would you wish was in the lower one that's in the upper one? All I see is a very well-mapped OSM area. Kudos to the Dutch OSM mappers.

I don't see any OSM mapping at all. That is the Mapquest layers. Everyone keeps saying OSM and that isn't correct. The default setting is MapQuest.

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Geocaching.com usage averages well over 2,000,000 hits per day.

 

That's a pretty big number. Now I wonder how well OSM is going to handle this. I would sure hope the GSP talked to OSM before unleashing this traffic on them.

Really??? I want to know if you honestly are unaware how what you are implying is wrong, or if you are just stirring the pot.

 

I am going to assume the former. Yes 2 million hits to Google Maps, that was the old Default Setting. The new default setting is MapQuest not OSM, so unless you honestly feel that every single person is switching from the default map every single time to the OSM map you have been mislead. I totally understand how, most people are mistaking the default map (MapQust) as the OSM map because if has a similar look that is so different from Google.

 

I do understand that there may be some increase as people try to find an alternative to the MapQuest map that they like better, but even the old google maps had an OSM option on the side.

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Something that got overlooked...these maps HAVE NO SCALE ON THEM.

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How can I see the "birdsview" or "Hybrid" view with the new maps for Switzerland? As soon as I zoom in, the patterns turn white? Any plans to change this?

I like OSM, but sometimes I prefer the "Hybrid" view to see more details...

 

View1.JPG

 

After zoom in just a little more...

View2.JPG

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I don't see any OSM mapping at all. That is the Mapquest layers. Everyone keeps saying OSM and that isn't correct. The default setting is MapQuest.

 

I totally understand how, most people are mistaking the default map (MapQust) as the OSM map because if has a similar look that is so different from Google.

The Mapquest, Cloudmade, OpenStreetMap and OpenCycleMap layers are all based on the same underlying OSM data. The only differences are the ways each renders the data, plus the OpenCycleMap adds elevation contour lines and shading.

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Yesterday the new map was unusable due to tiles not loading. This morning it is snappy, perhaps even more so than Google Maps usually is. I assume this is because you Americans are sleeping at the moment. If the speed I'm seeing now is what we'll get, it's good. As for the overview map itself, the new one is somewhat different from the old but possibly better. What is bad is that there is no satellite imagery! If I zoom out so far that almost nothing is distinguishable anyway, I can get satellite images, but they are all grayish and appear to be taken at night or something where Google's are nice and crisp. More importantly, Google's images are available down to the level where I can count the parking spots near the cache site and really plan my trip. With the new maps, nothing even remotely like that. This is a *major* problem.

 

When doing a major impairment like this, why not bundle it with an improvement? For instance, stop fighting third-party tools like c:geo and GeoToad. They are created by people that like geocaching for people that love geocaching, and are used because they add value that can't be had via official tools. You should help them (which will get you more satisfied users which in turn will get you more users), not hinder them. What I'm talking about is removing limits like only a couple of PQs per time period and no robots. Instead of just saying no, offer working alternatives or allow the existing ones that already work at no cost to you.

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Have to admit the new maps (esp. satellite view) are pretty disappointing. :(

This is Australia's capital city, zoomed in one level from the view which shows the entire state:

 

Canberra.jpg

 

At least I can see my finds...

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All I have to say about this release is this:

9OZUQ.png

 

Awesome release, guys! Well done, and thank you for listening!

 

(I will miss the Google maps, but totally understand that it is out of your control)

its in their control, they could settle for jags instead of maserattis

typical megacorp mentality. cut corners wherever possible while the execs enjoy it.

tip: how about editing the geocaching google maps since we're no longer getting them.

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Seems that GS is getting just like Facebook.... Making changes that no-one has asked for or wants and always for the detriment of the website and its users.

 

Betamaps it may have been but it worked, except on a smart phone. That was its only downfall. To the majority of its users it did the business so why mess it up..

 

I can't believe its about money either. Was anyone asked at any time about costs and possible ways to generate more funds. Is it a funds problem at all.??? Are we just assuming it is. Who knows..

 

Put it back the way it was GS and sort out the mobile issue and all will be well again.

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Ipad support.

 

The new maps work better with the iPad2, because now they actually show the cache icons. However, when I want to view a cache by clicking on the cache icon, nothing happens.

 

With the beta maps, the cache icons didn't display. I had to use the "old maps" to browse in map view and be able to see a cache.

 

Now, i can see the cache icons, but can't view the cache details. It would be nice to be able to click a cache icon and see the cache bubble.

 

Same here. I like the new maps and they load quickly on my iPad but nothing happens when I click on the cache icons. I use my iPad a lot to plan caching trips but can't do that if I can't access the cache details from the map. The same thing used to happen in the beta maps, and I always had to revert to the original maps, but know they've gone I can't do that anymore. Surely there must be a quick fix for this ?????????

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Am I missing something, I can't find out how to switch between map types anymore. Beta maps used to load up with a selection of checkboxes including open street map. This was the button I used to click on first. Now all I can see are the terrible leaflet maps, and no option to view as OSM.

 

Everyone is bemoaning the loss of google maps, I seem to be alone bemoaning the loss of OSM. Is there a button somewhere that I just can't see?

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Am I missing something, I can't find out how to switch between map types anymore. Beta maps used to load up with a selection of checkboxes including open street map. This was the button I used to click on first. Now all I can see are the terrible leaflet maps, and no option to view as OSM.

 

Everyone is bemoaning the loss of google maps, I seem to be alone bemoaning the loss of OSM. Is there a button somewhere that I just can't see?

 

Top right corner (see my previous post #230 for screen shot)

Edited by Huntleigh
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It's really good that unicode is now accepted in the description of caches. But why it does not work in logs? :(

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You have been selling memberships based on current features which included google maps ...

 

Where does this misconception come from? A premium membership gives you:

  • Ability to Favo(u)rite a cache (BFD)
  • Statistics (BFD)
  • Filters on maps, allowing you to hide the different types of caches (nice)
  • Lists (nice)
  • Custom searches aka PQs (killer app!)
  • Email notifications (nice)
  • Caches along a route (meh, can be useful from time to time)
  • Support geocaching.com aka "pay the bills"

Note that everybody have access to the same maps, whether paying or non-paying. A lot of people here clearly have NO CLUE why they are paying for premium membership.

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The NEW Maps .... why the Old working one was called BETA?

This here is more Beta or alpha the the old one was!

 

The "new" Maps are really ugly.

 

It´s hard for me to understand what line is a "big" Street"

What line is a "small" Street"

Where am I allowed to drive with car and where not.

 

That has been a lot more easy with google Maps.

 

Ok... I (we) might get used to that.

 

But!!!

 

The new map is to slow. Zooming / Paning takes ages to reload.

You realy have to get that working fast.

And Bugs. So many Bugs!

 

- Not working on IPad. Cant "Click" on any Cache to get the Details.

- After Zooming a few times inside / outside ... no Icons are shown. All Caches are gone.

- It ofter "jumps" while zooming. Not only one level ..it jumps a few level.

 

Some more to Say.

 

Get Your own Server. / Donate OSM

 

Last point!

 

Geocaching App on IPad/IPhone

 

Each time I download my PoketQueries with Map.

Thats a lot unneedet Trafic

 

I have the whole OSM Map on my IPad, since I use it in other App.

 

Make the Geocahing App able to use Maps on Pad.

 

No need to download it again and again and again and again......

That only take Time and makes a lot Trafic.

 

Or... Make the Geocahing App not download tiles it already has from downloading last week.

 

We... We Geocacher make a LOT unneedet Trafic on the FREE and not Comercial OSM Servers. Shame on us.

 

Thx for reading.

 

Sorry for Spelling. Native German speeking Person)

Edited by O Z R I C
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Hi!

 

I think there were some great fixes like the "1mb or the width/height is greater than 2048 pixels" photo uploading relaxation and the choice to not/view recently viewed caches.

Hear, hear! There were some outstanding upgrades that came out in this update, but they've been completely over-shadowed by the kerfuffle over the map change.

 

Hmmm, given the fact that I was STILL using the OLD map and that I don't have or want an iPad I can't see anything of value for ME! I still don't like the new map at all. I dislike the coloring scheme and I hate the way the icons are looking.

 

So please tell me what outstanding upgrade you do mean that I might have been missing?

 

Bye,

Christian

 

P.S.: At least the speed of the maps seem to be "ok" now. But let's see how quick it is at the time of day also the US users are awake...

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Have to admit the new maps (esp. satellite view) are pretty disappointing. :(

This is Australia's capital city, zoomed in one level from the view which shows the entire state:

 

Canberra.jpg

 

At least I can see my finds...

 

I beg to differ, I believe these other maps are good when zoomed in, this is in Suburbia Sydney- observe the tracks and details that aren't on the google map

This is just one example of a cache near home:

Leaflet

And here is Google Maps

Google Map

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What about the GoogleMaps in my Geocache-Listings? One of the two maps is still google.

This should be fixed fast, because every opening of a listing is still a +1 for google ...

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Hi!

 

Ouch. Just look at the differences:

 

mapsez.jpg

Ouch? I see all the same information (if not more), with different colours and some labels not visible at that zoom level. Besides the lack of a scale, what would you wish was in the lower one that's in the upper one? All I see is a very well-mapped OSM area. Kudos to the Dutch OSM mappers.

 

First of all it's exactly the different colours that I personally don't like. Together with the new icons of the new map it makes it close to impossible to SEE the caches on the map if there are just a few and if it is a large scale :-( This has been solved WAY better in the old maps and with the google maps.

 

For sure I do understand the reason behind the move to OSM but I would still like to get back the old maps ;-)

 

Bye,

Christian

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