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OpinioNate

Geocaching.com site update Feb 14th, 2012

720 posts in this topic

Count me in to pay more for the use of google maps! :)

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Well, this may have been an update, but it looks more like a downgrade to me.

I always use the maps to plan my caching trips, but that's a thing of the past it seems. Both using the map and going on caching trips. And here is why:

 

This is a screenshot of Google Maps over the town I live in. It's a small town, I admit, but so are a lot of towns.

 

Google.png

 

As you can see, a really good map with streets, hills, lakes and stuff.

This is the kind of map I am used to when planning my day out. A service I gladly pay for!

 

Now let's take a look of what Groundspeak has to offer me for my money after the update.

 

We'll start at the top of the list with MapQuest.

 

MapQuest.png

 

Well, at least it has got two roads and one lake..

 

And CloudMade?

 

CoudMade.png

 

Yay! The trainstation is back!

Some of the tiles never showed up, but that's due to some technical stuff that probably will be fixed sooner or later.

 

MapQuest Aerial sounds like a lot of fun, but here is what it looks like:

 

MQAerial.png

 

I don't think the three last tiles has anything useful in them..

 

OpenStreetMap then?

 

OSM.png

 

Here there's even a railroad and part of a street!!

 

OpenCycleMap didn't even load, but I've seen it before, and it's nearly identical to OSM. Only with different colors.

 

And MyTopo will probably save me a lot of bandwidth:

 

MyTopo.png

 

Yes, that's really what it looks like!

 

So, Groundspeak:

 

Is this what you are offering me and expect me to pay for?

 

I can understand that you want to save money, but you are losing premium members by the minute here if you don't do something about this.

 

Quickly!

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Um, where's the hamster video that was on the main site page during the outage? I heard it was great, but sadly, can't find it anywhere.

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here's an idea, let premium members have access to google maps, and non-premium members can have access to the poor-mans maps.

+4

+5

no useful maps = no caching for me. Not only are they painfully slow, but the images, in my home area at least, are totally inferior.

 

 

+6

New maps here in the UK look terrible with very little detail and the lack of a satellite view is a big mistake.

 

Oh yes I forgot to add, my membership is due for renewal, I wonder if it`s worth it now?

Edited by jason johnson
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What a load of rubbish the new maps are.. For everyones sake bring back GoogleMaps..

 

I've just done a check and with Google Maps I can scan right down to less than the size of my garage roof top.

Drawing a line across the screen measures just 6 feet across and 4 feet down..

 

To even get an aerial pic on my page with Mapquest the screen covers an area of 36 MILES across and 22 MILES down.

 

Wow what a resolution that is... Get it off and bring Google back...

 

Rant over..

 

If you need to zoom in that close to a cache, then use the Google or Bing map links from the cache page. You will be too close to see its relationship to other nearby caches anyway.

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Um, where's the hamster video that was on the main site page during the outage? I heard it was great, but sadly, can't find it anywhere.

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Give me 25 000 Cache Poket Querry GPX and let me see it in google EARTH and i will stop ranting right away!!!

since i would not need you OpenMaps there will be moe bandwidth for thos who dont pay and do not have pocket querries!

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Give Caches along a Route a try. Useless.

I just tried it, and it's still using Google Maps. I don't see any differences from before the update.

 

The Google maps is only on the first step. Then, it goes to the other maps. When I tried it the other map wouldn't even load. Just now it loaded. As long as the initial maps are Google so we can modify the first route supplied, it might be usable.

 

I'm still in favor of a Premium/Google level membership for those of us who wish to pay for it.

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Thank you! And thanks especially for:

• Display of only the caches in a Pocket Query instead of all caches at once

• Added setting choice in profile to hide Recently Viewed Caches from the private profile view

Don't get me wrong; I like the Recently Viewed Caches list. I just don't want the short version of this list at the top of my home page.

 

One question though...

• Changed the Project A.P.E. cache description on cache_types.aspx to indicate there is only one left in the world
While you were at it, why didn't you move the Project A.P.E. cache description to the Grandfathered Cache Types section?
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Sorry GS, but the new maps suck. There are some good updates here, but the huge downgrade in map quality completely overshadows them. It feels like we just stepped back 5 years in technology. This is a map and technology driven hobby, so while we understand that google changed the game a bit with their pricing, what you provided us with is horrible and unacceptable.

 

Everyone keeps saying they would pay more money for the ability to use the google api, what about the money we are already paying????? I feel like my reasons for paying my premium membership dwindle every year. Taking away satellite imagery from our maps pretty much just dealt a death blow to me re-upping when my year runs out. Sorry, but if the map situation doesn't improve, I won't be paying again this year.

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Give Caches along a Route a try. Useless.

I just tried it, and it's still using Google Maps. I don't see any differences from before the update.

The Google maps is only on the first step. Then, it goes to the other maps. When I tried it the other map wouldn't even load. Just now it loaded. As long as the initial maps are Google so we can modify the first route supplied, it might be usable.

The most critical step is where you actually edit the route, which still uses Google Maps. The route summary page uses the Leaflet map, but that map is very minor, so I don't have a problem with it.

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Hate it. I couldn't care less about a more detailed OSM Street map when all I use is the satellite view. These new maps are slow and won't refresh correctly. How much more would a Premium Membership cost if it went towards paying for the Google API?

 

Hate the change ... thanks Google.

 

more to the point, what is the premium membership actually paying for at the moment?

all we've had recently is features removed and replaced with inferior solutions.

 

here's an idea, let premium members have access to google maps, and non-premium members can have access to the poor-mans maps.

 

My problem is that it isn't showing all of the caches that I have found with a smiley face.

 

I do wonder about that for a long time. my membership is due soon and right now I feel my 30 bucks is paying for Groudspeak's wonderful benefit plans for their workers and high rent (Seattle) instead of the services I really paying for.

Yup, got a point there judge!

+4

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Disaster !!! I had the Chrome Add On that linked to OS maps here in UK, that now doesn't work. Anyone know of a workaround?

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Give Caches along a Route a try. Useless.

I just tried it, and it's still using Google Maps. I don't see any differences from before the update.

 

The Google maps is only on the first step. Then, it goes to the other maps. When I tried it the other map wouldn't even load. Just now it loaded. As long as the initial maps are Google so we can modify the first route supplied, it might be usable.

 

I'm still in favor of a Premium/Google level membership for those of us who wish to pay for it.

I just modified an existing route and created a new route. During the entire process it was Google maps except on the initial Create / Edit a route page. Works fine for me, like it always did.

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BTW, for those that haven't realized it, 4 of the 6 layers use the same underlying OpenStreetMap data. The MapQuest Aerial and My Topo are the only ones that don't use OSM data. The OpenCycleMap uses the same OSM data, but also adds contour lines. Assuming your area has been mapped enough by OSM users, the OpenCycleMap with the terrain information looks really good. For the many areas with minimal or non-existent OSM data, the options are pretty much nil.

 

As I was typing this and trying things, the map tile loading suddenly seemed to speed up. The caches are still a bit sluggish to load, but it definitely seems better than before.

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Okay, so now I've tried the new maps on my iPhone, like I would when I go out caching... what can I say?! While I might be willing and able to adapt to using OSM on my home computer, accessing GC.com on the iPhone is completely lethal. The pop-up menu where you choose the map won't close, so it already blocks like a quarter of the screen. Since every time we open the map we start with MapQuest, it takes ages to load at all and get you to a point where you can close the slide on the left hand side and see the map in the first place.

 

Groundspeak, you really need to upgrade your update! Soon. VERY soon!!!

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im sure the Google Maps API for Business got a different price levels that the cost estimated in the posts above ;)

And we get better maps too

Edited by shahost
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This is probably a dumb question, but will this change affect the iPhone app map choices as well?

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Issues with OSM maps versus Google maps aside, the new map interface has another issue. Currently, zooming in on the new maps causes the smiley faces (for found caches) and stars (for owned caches) to disappear.

 

Here's a screenshot at the default zoom level:

 

b1c1957c-cf5e-4128-adc1-2803e3916ce4.jpg

 

Here's another, zoomed in one level. Note that all the caches in the park in the middle of the screen were either smiley faces or stars, but now are not:

 

f6a90418-e23c-416b-9667-9ec9546f0510.jpg

 

Oh, and regardless of how many times I try to reset it, when I view my profile, my avatar shows up as the default gray soulless thing. It shows up other places fine, just not on my profile.

 

default_avatar.jpg

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HAPPY VALENTINE`S DAY!!

 

Today i feel just like we have broked up with a good lover....

Hope we will stay firend Google map!

Edited by FrogMastr
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Its 403pm EST and the maps seem to be loading kinda quickly then they were over an hour ago when I first tried.

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b1c1957c-cf5e-4128-adc1-2803e3916ce4.jpg

 

p.s. just noticed that not even all found/owned caches at the default zoom level are showing up as found or owned. All of the caches left (west) of I-65 should show up as found or owned by us, and at least those four do not. Might be a server load issue.

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p.s. just noticed that not even all found/owned caches at the default zoom level are showing up as found or owned. All of the caches left (west) of I-65 should show up as found or owned by us, and at least those four do not. Might be a server load issue.

I found that if you've had the map open for a while, it will start to do strange things. The previous few versions did, too. I think it has something to do with a session timeout or something. Try refreshing and see if it still happens.

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Issues with OSM maps versus Google maps aside, the new map interface has another issue. Currently, zooming in on the new maps causes the smiley faces (for found caches) and stars (for owned caches) to disappear.

 

Here's another, zoomed in one level. Note that all the caches in the park in the middle of the screen were either smiley faces or stars, but now are not:

 

Oh, and regardless of how many times I try to reset it, when I view my profile, my avatar shows up as the default gray soulless thing. It shows up other places fine, just not on my profile.

 

default_avatar.jpg

 

I'm not seeing either issue. I still see smilies no matter how far I zoom in, and my profile avatar shows up properly, too.

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here's an idea, let premium members have access to google maps, and non-premium members can have access to the poor-mans maps.

+3

 

I've converted your idea in a feature request

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p.s. just noticed that not even all found/owned caches at the default zoom level are showing up as found or owned. All of the caches left (west) of I-65 should show up as found or owned by us, and at least those four do not. Might be a server load issue.

I found that if you've had the map open for a while, it will start to do strange things. The previous few versions did, too. I think it has something to do with a session timeout or something. Try refreshing and see if it still happens.

 

The slowness of loading the maps vs loading the cache icons does some funny stuff when you zoom in and the new small icon is overlayed over the large one that persists from the previous zoom level. I assume that will go away if/when the speed issues are dealt with.

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A sad day!

Geocaching is broken.

I live in a small village in the UK and OSM is very inaccurate here. OK, I could update it, but I am sure that it is also inaccurate in many of the areas that I go Geocaching in. Also the maps take ages to download, and have grey tiles in.

Why didn't you consult with the Geocaching community before you did this? I would be happy to pay more money for my membership if I knew that I was paying for a mapping system that worked, rather than my present 'Premium' membership that no longer feels premium at all.

Thanks also to Google for messing things up!

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Thanks for kicking Google maps to the kerb where they belong. Shame the sat images have to go with them, but you can of course still use GSAK et al for that.

 

I hope that, should you for some reason decide to allow people to pay for access to google maps on gc.com, you will keep it separate from the regular premium membership and offer it as an optional upgrade. I have no interest paying for something I can easily get for free.

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Hate it. I couldn't care less about a more detailed OSM Street map when all I use is the satellite view. These new maps are slow and won't refresh correctly. There is no scale on the map, i.e. 1 in = 100 ft. Also, this might just be my imagination, but it doesn't seem to have as close of a zoom either. How much more would a Premium Membership cost if it went towards paying for the Google API?

 

Hate the change ... thanks Google.

If I am reading Google's new pricing structure correctly, and if Geocaching.com really uses 2,000,000 map loads per day, then the cost would be US $8-10k per day. How many premium members are there? Divide $10,000 by the members and you get the cost per member per day.

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Hate it. I couldn't care less about a more detailed OSM Street map when all I use is the satellite view. These new maps are slow and won't refresh correctly. There is no scale on the map, i.e. 1 in = 100 ft. Also, this might just be my imagination, but it doesn't seem to have as close of a zoom either. How much more would a Premium Membership cost if it went towards paying for the Google API?

 

Hate the change ... thanks Google.

If I am reading Google's new pricing structure correctly, and if Geocaching.com really uses 2,000,000 map loads per day, then the cost would be US $8-10k per day. How many premium members are there? Divide $10,000 by the members and you get the cost per member per day.

 

How many premium members will there be after the price hike? Lather, rinse, repeat.

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What a load of rubbish the new maps are.. For everyones sake bring back GoogleMaps..

 

I've just done a check and with Google Maps I can scan right down to less than the size of my garage roof top.

Drawing a line across the screen measures just 6 feet across and 4 feet down..

 

To even get an aerial pic on my page with Mapquest the screen covers an area of 36 MILES across and 22 MILES down.

 

Wow what a resolution that is... Get it off and bring Google back...

 

Rant over..

 

If you need to zoom in that close to a cache, then use the Google or Bing map links from the cache page. You will be too close to see its relationship to other nearby caches anyway.

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I'm not saying I use Google THAT close. But it IS possible to view in detail at that level and not a 36 x 22 MILE area that Mapquest gives..

 

I often use goolemaps option in the field to help find the best path to take. Can't even see Major roads with the set of maps we have now..

 

If this is an upgrade with all the technology we have in the world at our disposal then gawd help us if we ever downgrade.

 

Besides we are paying for this service remember...

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The end of Gmaps is the end of my PM!

I don't pay for anything i dont like...

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Hate it. I couldn't care less about a more detailed OSM Street map when all I use is the satellite view. These new maps are slow and won't refresh correctly. There is no scale on the map, i.e. 1 in = 100 ft. Also, this might just be my imagination, but it doesn't seem to have as close of a zoom either. How much more would a Premium Membership cost if it went towards paying for the Google API?

 

Hate the change ... thanks Google.

If I am reading Google's new pricing structure correctly, and if Geocaching.com really uses 2,000,000 map loads per day, then the cost would be US $8-10k per day. How many premium members are there? Divide $10,000 by the members and you get the cost per member per day.

 

How many premium members will there be after the price hike? Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

Well, as others have suggested, if only Premium Members are allowed access to Google Maps, then not only would this encourage, and perhaps boost, premium membership, but it would also drop the Google Maps loads per day from 2,000,000 per day to some (much?) lower number. Thus, for perhaps $10 or less per year more in membership fee, Premium Members could go back to using Google Maps.

 

My suspicion is, however, that Groundspeak will not want to implement Google Maps for Premium Members only, but we will see.

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New maps are working OK for me. Certain Google Maps links still work. Certain Google Maps hacks still work, such as I can hack a PQ into the old Groundspeak Google Map.

 

Bugs noted: I am cache owner for three caches near my home. I have not posted "Found It" logs on these caches. On previous maps, caches I owned were denoted by a star in the box or circle. Now, I'm seeing smileys. I don't think that's appropriate. Also, there is another cache for which I have posted multiple DNF logs. Someday I'll find it, but on this new map, it's showing as a smiley.

 

I know Groundspeak will want to fix this. I'm not much for checking on these forums, but if any more detailed info is necessary, I'd be glad to provide via email.

 

TxStrawberryCreek

elaine@natca.net

Edited by TxStrawberryCreek
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Hate it. I couldn't care less about a more detailed OSM Street map when all I use is the satellite view. These new maps are slow and won't refresh correctly. There is no scale on the map, i.e. 1 in = 100 ft. Also, this might just be my imagination, but it doesn't seem to have as close of a zoom either. How much more would a Premium Membership cost if it went towards paying for the Google API?

 

Hate the change ... thanks Google.

If I am reading Google's new pricing structure correctly, and if Geocaching.com really uses 2,000,000 map loads per day, then the cost would be US $8-10k per day. How many premium members are there? Divide $10,000 by the members and you get the cost per member per day.

 

How many premium members will there be after the price hike? Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

Your logic doesn't really hold water. Right now Premium Members are paying $30/year for what? Pocket Queries? Access to their Statistics tab? I don't pay $30/year because I like PQs and Stats, I pay because I like this game and it's the best way for me to monetarily contribute to Groundspeak as a "thanks". In contrast, I pay ~$96/year for access to Netflix Instant Watch, and it's not nearly as much fun as what Groundspeak has to offer me via Geocaching. I think you're severely overestimating how many people would leave if they raised the Premium Membership cost. In terms of keeping the Google API, I think $10 more/member would do it, and I don't think we'd see a 33% drop in Premium Members to negate the price hike.

 

"I was paying $30/year to do Pocket Queries and look at my Cache Matrix, but now they want $40! No way!" ... I really don't think you'd hear this from 1 in 3 premium members.

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Well, if we all premium members just hit the unsubscribe button, they at least can see how much they loose of this "downgrade".

My subscripton was just renewed a few days ago, but I still unsubscribed. Then at least Groundspeak can see how many who don't wanna pay for a service, and get almost nothing for it.

 

Then GS at least have figures out of how much money they could loose.

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Why can't you leave things alone? Are you trying to justify your existence, or what? I miss the 3D terrain maps. It's also harder to navigate.

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I am seeing wonky behavior with the maps as well.

 

All caches are being displayed in their "un-found/un-owned" format. When I turn off the display of Owned and/our Found caches, all caches remain. When I zoom out a step, I see the tiny icons as smileys or stars. When I turn of Owned and/or Found, the smileys/stars go away, but teh normal format icons are displayed.

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I can live without the Google maps, I always prefered the OSM maps anyway, however it's a pain not having any sort of scale on the maps now.

 

... I had the Chrome Add On that linked to OS maps here in UK, that now doesn't work. Anyone know of a workaround?

 

I had this add-on too and it was useful, I guess it's a matter of waiting for the author (or someone else) to rewrite it.

I expect someone with the know how could also write an add-on to put the Google maps back too.

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Yep :(

I agree with evry others ...

Completly dislike new map !!!

Toooooooooooooo slow, ugly, not enough details, no sat view (france) ...

icone (found/owned) isue ...

 

Will not pay again if I only get these maps ... should renew (or not) on march :'(

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I'm personly realy don't like the new OSM. I understand that it is a cost issue but why do you affect the premium members? Make the OSM default for the non premium members and make the google maps available to the paying premium members.

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If I am reading Google's new pricing structure correctly, and if Geocaching.com really uses 2,000,000 map loads per day, then the cost would be US $8-10k per day. How many premium members are there? Divide $10,000 by the members and you get the cost per member per day.

The # of PMs is Jeremy's BIG SECRET.

 

If you want to have an idea:

Go to a recent cachepage (ex. event cache). Count the PM attends divided by total attends -> % PM

 

I did the excercis on: http://coord.info/GC35YGR

 

131 PM attends : 156 total = 84% PM

Edited by DanPan
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I am not liking this one bit. Nope nope nope nope. I want my Google Maps back! I like the idea of allowing premium members use of Google Maps. It loads too dadgum slow like website did 10 years ago. Forget zooming in on a cache, it will take a week! I really don't like how the hamsters make changes without getting imput from their members.

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Hi there,

 

apart from the fact, that OSM in my area misses a lot of details, I still wonder about this fact:

 

Groundspeak whines about Android/Iphone Apps using their data by spidering (like c:geo and others)

 

But they feel no shame to put all the load map-viewing creates on a server of a non-profit organization (OSM) who only rely on donations??????????? :mad::o

 

I am happy to pay my premium-membership, but I EXPECT that Groundspeak then behaves like a fair player. OSM is a great project - if they are using it, then they should pay up. Ok, Google is to expensive? Then donate a reasonable amount each year to OSM, even if its only a half / a third / a quarter of what they'd have to pay for Google.

 

Or, AT LEAST: USE YOUR OWN SERVER!

While the map-data is free, using the servers of OSM is bound to a policy: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_Usage_Policy

Right now it seems as if nobody of the GS-people read and understood what it written there?!

 

Greetings from Germany (no sat-view anymore here)

HansHafen

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It seems to me that no one except Groundspeak understands why they needed to change the maps. Groundspeak CANNOT afford to pay the price that Google wants to charge for their maps. If they could, they would not have made this change.

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Or, AT LEAST: USE YOUR OWN SERVER!

While the map-data is free, using the servers of OSM is bound to a policy: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_Usage_Policy

Right now it seems as if nobody of the GS-people read and understood what it written there?!

From OpioNate's original post on why Google Maps went away:

 

We also intend to build out our own tile server in the future which will speed up the loading of map tiles enormously.

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