+slukster Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Take a look at the monthly newsletter and you will find the following article: Does this mean that the FTF "side-game" is officially recognized by Groundspeak? Will this competitive part of the game be added to the website in some way? Oh the possibilities. Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Take a look at the monthly newsletter and you will find the following article: Does this mean that the FTF "side-game" is officially recognized by Groundspeak? Will this competitive part of the game be added to the website in some way? Oh the possibilities. I believe some will point out it (in their opinions) that it was already "sanctioned" when they advertised premium memberships and the instant notification feature could be used for "chasing FTF's". I didn't see this was in the newsletter, but it was tweeted by the official Geocaching.com blog today as a short blog post. I think, in my opinion, they're just pointing out to people that they can have the standard cache notification email converted (via an email to SMS gateway that is provider specific) to a text message, which I'm sure many people don't know. Standard text message rates apply (I always wanted to say that). Quote Link to comment
+Lil Devil Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Will this competitive part of the game be added to the website in some way? It was already added to the website when they first introduced Instant Notifications. Nothing new here Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Groundspeak "recognized" it a while ago... We were one of a bunch who got a coin when asked for Premium Member "testamonials". I mentioned my cache partner's instant notifications and FTFs in mine. Old enough, I was still calling her my other half (call her my other 2/3rds now.) - And why I always get a chuckle when some mega-poster from years ago adds his half cent on FTF questions. Usually begins with "This is a side-game..." and ends with "...not officially recognized by Groundspeak." Quote Link to comment
AZcachemeister Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Does your statistics page show your FTFs? I didn't think so. Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Does your statistics page show your FTFs? I didn't think so. My statistics page doesn't show my DNFs either. Quote Link to comment
+Totem Clan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Does your statistics page show your FTFs? I didn't think so. My statistics page doesn't show my DNFs either. Here we go again. Quote Link to comment
AZcachemeister Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Does your statistics page show your FTFs? I didn't think so. My statistics page doesn't show my DNFs either. But you can view the DNF logs you have posted, eh? Do you see an option to view FTF logs you have posted? I didn't think so. Quote Link to comment
+pppingme Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Does your statistics page show your FTFs? I didn't think so. Mine does. Quote Link to comment
AZcachemeister Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Does your statistics page show your FTFs? I didn't think so. Mine does. This user has elected to not display their detailed statistics. I guess not, eh? Quote Link to comment
AZcachemeister Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Does your statistics page show your FTFs? I didn't think so. Mine does. This user has elected to not display their detailed statistics. I guess not, eh? Your 'unofficial' statistics can claim whatever you want. Quote Link to comment
+Mitragorz Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I think the mere fact that Groundspeak mentions FTFs proves that they recognize their existence! Quote Link to comment
+zack_black Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I think arguing about it is stupid and pointless... Quote Link to comment
+Dgwphotos Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I think arguing about it is stupid and pointless... Welcome to the Forums. Quote Link to comment
jholly Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I think the mere fact that Groundspeak mentions FTFs proves that they recognize their existence! I'm sure they have been aware of the side game for a number of years. But the weekly letter spot and the blog article strike me as a marketing message to sell more premium subscriptions. Quote Link to comment
+jellis Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 GC knows it exists to us but it's still not an official GC stat catagory. GC's stats don't and will not show FTFs. Quote Link to comment
+Moose Mob Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I would think LTF would be an interesting statistic to see. Quote Link to comment
+Totem Clan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I would think LTF would be an interesting statistic to see. I've got a few of those. Quote Link to comment
+Dgwphotos Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 GC knows it exists to us but it's still not an official GC stat catagory. GC's stats don't and will not show FTFs. I would imagine that is because the site does not have any method of accurately tracking FTF's without user input. In order to tag them in GSAK, you have to click a check box, and other stats programs search logs for FTF, but it's not always accurate. Quote Link to comment
+jellis Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 GC knows it exists to us but it's still not an official GC stat catagory. GC's stats don't and will not show FTFs. I would imagine that is because the site does not have any method of accurately tracking FTF's without user input. In order to tag them in GSAK, you have to click a check box, and other stats programs search logs for FTF, but it's not always accurate. As I said I doubt they will. For one it is too hard to prove who was FTF. I was FTF on a cache and someone put their name over mine. Luckily I had two witnesses to me being FTF. And there is the issue of Co-FTFs. I would think GC just wants us to have it as our own private game and I don't think they want to get involved but still acknowledge it exists. Quote Link to comment
+Totem Clan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Place an FTF challenge cache and see if they publish it. Quote Link to comment
+jellis Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Place an FTF challenge cache and see if they publish it. +1 Quote Link to comment
+Afterburned Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I noticed all the words in "double quotes" - try saying every word you see in "double quotes" a bit sarcastically and the whole tone changes. (especially posts 2 and 4 in this thread...!) Quote Link to comment
+Glenn Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I noticed all the words in "double quotes" - try saying every word you see in "double quotes" a bit sarcastically and the whole tone changes. (especially posts 2 and 4 in this thread...!) When I want a good laugh I sometimes "visit" http://www.unnecessaryquotes.com/. It's "funny" how a couple of "stray lines" can change the entire meaning of a sentence. Quote Link to comment
AZcachemeister Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Place an FTF challenge cache and see if they publish it. +1 There are no less than FIVE FTF based challenge caches in our area. Not sure how they managed to slip through the cracks. GC2JDTJ GC2JDTG GC2JDTK GC2JDTF GC2JDTH Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Groundspeak "recognized" it a while ago... We were one of a bunch who got a coin when asked for Premium Member "testamonials". I mentioned my cache partner's instant notifications and FTFs in mine. Old enough, I was still calling her my other half (call her my other 2/3rds now.) - And why I always get a chuckle when some mega-poster from years ago adds his half cent on FTF questions. Usually begins with "This is a side-game..." and ends with "...not officially recognized by Groundspeak." This is unbelieveable. You call her your better 2/3's, and you're still physically able to post to the forums? Hey, is that really what the newsletter looks like? That's pretty nice. Perhaps I should get with the 21st Century, and receive the HTML version. 3rd EDIT: Of course the same newsletter last summer suggested finding several Geocaches before hiding one of your own. We know that's never going to be a sanctioned policy. Edited February 10, 2012 by Mr.Yuck Quote Link to comment
Pup Patrol Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Take a look at the monthly weekly newsletter Fixed it for ya. The newsletter points the reader to the Help Center article, which is titled "1.8. Instant Notifications - Chasing First to Finds" and has been for quite some time. http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=184 So, yeah, I think GS has been aware of the existence of the FTF game for a while. Quote Link to comment
Pup Patrol Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I'm sure they have been aware of the side game for a number of years. But the weekly letter spot and the blog article strike me as a marketing message to sell more premium subscriptions. Last week's newsletter featured the new "Recently Viewed Geocaches", the week before that was "Flex Your Geocaching Creativity", the week before that was announcing the Leap Year souvenir and the partnership with Tomb Raider. Archive of the weekly newsletters: http://blog.geocaching.com/category/groundspeaks-weekly-newsletter/ Quote Link to comment
+OZ2CPU Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 3 friends go on a hunt, lets call them A,B,C A found the cache first. B got the log first and signed it. C logged it online first. I have seen this several times.. that is why the "system" cant handle FTF logs. and that is why we say B is the FTF no matter what. there can be only ONE true FTF, if you ask me.. Quote Link to comment
+Totem Clan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 3 friends go on a hunt, lets call them A,B,C A found the cache first. B got the log first and signed it. C logged it online first. I have seen this several times.. that is why the "system" cant handle FTF logs. and that is why we say B is the FTF no matter what. there can be only ONE true FTF, if you ask me.. THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE! Quote Link to comment
+Totem Clan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) 3 friends go on a hunt, lets call them A,B,C A found the cache first. B got the log first and signed it. C logged it online first. I have seen this several times.. that is why the "system" cant handle FTF logs. and that is why we say B is the FTF no matter what. there can be only ONE true FTF, if you ask me.. THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE! Great! Now I have visions of Juan Sánchez Villa-Lobos Ramírez preparing a cacher for the FTF race. You have the manners of a goat. And you smell like a dung-heap! And you have no knowledge whatsoever of how to use your GPS! Edited February 10, 2012 by Totem Clan Quote Link to comment
+Ike 13 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 There's a large gap between officially recognized to sanctioned and tracked on the website. A forum search will show other threads that expose every reason why FTF will not be officially tracked by Groundspeak. There are no less than FIVE FTF based challenge caches in our area. Not sure how they managed to slip through the cracks. GC2JDTJ GC2JDTG GC2JDTK GC2JDTF GC2JDTH Wow those are all against the guidelines. Plus the picture is not exactly 'family friendly'. Quote Link to comment
+cheech gang Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Challenge Caches "A challenge cache should recognize the completion of an achievement, rather than the winner of a competition. For example, a challenge based on "First to Finds" is dependent on the actions of other cachers, is a competition, and cannot be verified, so would likely not be published." Likely??? Edited February 10, 2012 by cheech gang Quote Link to comment
+zack_black Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I think arguing about it is stupid and pointless... Welcome to the Forums. Just because I lurk doesn't mean I'm new Quote Link to comment
+Lil Devil Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Wow those are all against the current guidelines. Fixed it for ya. IIRC they were perfectly acceptable when they were published. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 3 friends go on a hunt, lets call them A,B,C A found the cache first. B got the log first and signed it. C logged it online first. I have seen this several times.. that is why the "system" cant handle FTF logs. and that is why we say B is the FTF no matter what. there can be only ONE true FTF, if you ask me.. D showed up and arrested them all for being in the park after hours. E showed up the next morning and replaced the log with his own, then signed it. C gets bailed out and sees that his online log has been disputed, so he starts a thread about it in the forums A gets bailed out, discovers the forum thread and starts a very angsty debate with C about who really found it first. B gets bailed out and immediately goes back to get a photograph of his name in the log so he can post it with his online log, only to find that E's name is the first one on it. Quote Link to comment
Pup Patrol Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Challenge Caches "A challenge cache should recognize the completion of an achievement, rather than the winner of a competition. For example, a challenge based on "First to Finds" is dependent on the actions of other cachers, is a competition, and cannot be verified, so would likely not be published." Likely??? http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=206 4.14. Challenge Caches [updated 12/12/2011] As with all caches, each challenge cache is reviewed and published or denied on its own merits. Some grandfathered caches do exist which would not be published today. Quote Link to comment
+The A-Team Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 3 friends go on a hunt, lets call them A,B,C A found the cache first. B got the log first and signed it. C logged it online first. and that is why we say B is the FTF no matter what. Isn't the whole point of Geocaching to find the cache? It seems pretty clear to me that A is FTF, and that's how it's always worked with any FTF hunt I've been a part of. I've never seen people grabbing the log from others so they can sign first... Anyway, there will never be an officially sanctioned FTF stat on this website. Now I'm going to go out and get a FTF! Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 3 friends go on a hunt, lets call them A,B,C A found the cache first. B got the log first and signed it. C logged it online first. and that is why we say B is the FTF no matter what. Isn't the whole point of Geocaching to find the cache? It seems pretty clear to me that A is FTF, and that's how it's always worked with any FTF hunt I've been a part of. I've never seen people grabbing the log from others so they can sign first... Anyway, there will never be an officially sanctioned FTF stat on this website. Now I'm going to go out and get a FTF! My guess is that A spotted it, but couldn't retrieve it for some reason. B did, and signed the log, so A loses. Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 3 friends go on a hunt, lets call them A,B,C A found the cache first. B got the log first and signed it. C logged it online first. I have seen this several times.. that is why the "system" cant handle FTF logs. and that is why we say B is the FTF no matter what. there can be only ONE true FTF, if you ask me.. The drama happens when three non-so-good-friends go on a hunt. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) There is no such thing as a "First To Find". Edited February 10, 2012 by 4wheelin_fool Quote Link to comment
I! Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The site could support FTF by means of verification codes. Upon setting up the listing, the CO gets a secret code word/number/whatever. If the CO wishes to support an FTF race on his cache, he writes that code on a slip of paper placed prominently in the cache. FTOTC (first to open the container) takes the slip of paper and logs the code on the website with a special "Found It First" log type. Quote Link to comment
+Totem Clan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The site could support FTF by means of verification codes. Upon setting up the listing, the CO gets a secret code word/number/whatever. If the CO wishes to support an FTF race on his cache, he writes that code on a slip of paper placed prominently in the cache. FTOTC (first to open the container) takes the slip of paper and logs the code on the website with a special "Found It First" log type. ....and if the CO gives the code to their friend(s), the first finder does not take it, the CO does put it in, then there will be a huge fuss. Then who's going to sort that all out? Not a bad idea on the surface but I think there are too many worms in that can to justify opening it. Quote Link to comment
+the4dirtydogs Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The only thing offcial about this is to increase the frogs' wallet. Quote Link to comment
I! Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Not a bad idea on the surface but I think there are too many worms in that can to justify opening it. I wondered about that. I would be inclined to accept that there's always going to be some (hopefully little) abuse of the system, and that on the whole the idea is worthwhile. But I can imagine that's a view not widely shared. Quote Link to comment
+tozainamboku Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) 3 friends go on a hunt, lets call them A,B,C A found the cache first. B got the log first and signed it. C logged it online first. and that is why we say B is the FTF no matter what. Isn't the whole point of Geocaching to find the cache? It seems pretty clear to me that A is FTF, and that's how it's always worked with any FTF hunt I've been a part of. I've never seen people grabbing the log from others so they can sign first... Anyway, there will never be an officially sanctioned FTF stat on this website. Now I'm going to go out and get a FTF! My guess is that A spotted it, but couldn't retrieve it for some reason. B did, and signed the log, so A loses. Clearly only P can determine who is FTF Edited February 10, 2012 by tozainamboku Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Place an FTF challenge cache and see if they publish it. +1 There are no less than FIVE FTF based challenge caches in our area. Not sure how they managed to slip through the cracks. GC2JDTJ GC2JDTG GC2JDTK GC2JDTF GC2JDTH The fact that there are 5 tells me they probably didn't slip through the cracks. The fact they wouldn't be published by most reviewers elsewhere is yet another example of the inconsistency inherent to the volunteer reviewer system. The fact that you've compiled a list means many people probably think you need something better to do. Not me, of course. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 3 friends go on a hunt, lets call them A,B,C A found the cache first. B got the log first and signed it. C logged it online first. and that is why we say B is the FTF no matter what. Isn't the whole point of Geocaching to find the cache? It seems pretty clear to me that A is FTF, and that's how it's always worked with any FTF hunt I've been a part of. I've never seen people grabbing the log from others so they can sign first... Anyway, there will never be an officially sanctioned FTF stat on this website. Now I'm going to go out and get a FTF! My guess is that A spotted it, but couldn't retrieve it for some reason. B did, and signed the log, so A loses. Clearly only P can determine who is FTF Yeah, but that would require expensive and time-consuming DNA testing. Quote Link to comment
Pup Patrol Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Place an FTF challenge cache and see if they publish it. +1 There are no less than FIVE FTF based challenge caches in our area. Not sure how they managed to slip through the cracks. GC2JDTJ GC2JDTG GC2JDTK GC2JDTF GC2JDTH The fact that there are 5 tells me they probably didn't slip through the cracks. The fact they wouldn't be published by most reviewers elsewhere is yet another example of the inconsistency inherent to the volunteer reviewer system. The fact that you've compiled a list means many people probably think you need something better to do. Not me, of course. All of them were published on the same day, 11/23/2010, by the same reviewer. http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=206 4.14. Challenge Caches [updated 12/12/2011] As with all caches, each challenge cache is reviewed and published or denied on its own merits. Some grandfathered caches do exist which would not be published today. Sure is a lot of conclusion-jumping going on around here. B. Edited February 10, 2012 by Pup Patrol Quote Link to comment
Pup Patrol Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) D'oh! Edited February 10, 2012 by Pup Patrol Quote Link to comment
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