Ever hear of your body causing gps malfunction

[zedex]

Hi. Have not been here for a long time but maybe you might have heard of this.

 

I have now owned 3 gpsmap 60 csx,s. 1 60 cs. The 60 cs functioned perfectly, never had a problem with it ever. I sold it to buy a csx because i needed the memory. csx #1 , the guiding arrow in the "go to" screen would point backwards. While walking to a waypoint the arrow would point towards me . If i turned the gps so the antenaa was pointing towards me it would guide me properly. Updated software,firmware. same problem. Sent the gps to garmin for repair. It was returned to me, something about it needed to be recalibrated. Ok. Started using it again, same problem. Sent it back to garmin and recieved another csx. csx #2. Started using it. Went elk hunting, and would have gotten seriously lost because gps was sending me in the opposite direction. If i had not known exactly where i was i would have been screwed. I gave the gps away. Bought csx #3. Loaded my canada topo maps and went elk hunting again. This time i got very lost because the gps was sending me in the opposite direction again. So im thinking there is no way in hell that 3 seperate csx,s could be having the exact same problem. I call up garmin and explain the situation, and ask them maybe my maps are causing the problem.Garmin topo canada. They say maybe, or could be the micro sd card. I used different cards in all the csx,s i have owned so it cant be the card. I tried using the gps without maps and it worked properly, but the gps with the maps would sometimes work properly so.. I have lost all confidence in my new csx #3. I dont even want to use it. So a friend who is pretty versed in gps tech and has a csx,. says maybe my body is screwing up the gps.

While experimenting while hunting with my malfunctioning gps, i tried carrying my gps on the opposite side of my rifle thinking maybe my rifle was causing the problem. No difference. Then i tried turning off my walkie talkie thinking maybe that was the problem. Nope.

Here is an example on how screwed my new csx is.Bear with me.

 

While in the bush,my csx freshly calibrated. I Would mark my waypoint. I would start my hunt and hike about 1 km or so. I would stop, click my go to screen, and choose my only waypoint. Hit "go to" off road. I would choose to go directly as the crow flies to my waypoint. It would start guiding me to the waypoint. So as an experiment i would turn 90 degrees and walk . The gps would not refresh the screen or reorientate the map, it would continue guiding me 90 degrees away from the waypoint. So. I would then turn 180 degrees and walk the way i had just come and the gps would continue to guide me straight ahead. So in escence, the screen was completely locked up. I would shut down the gps, restart it, wait for full satellite aquisition 3d. Recalibrate my compass. rechoose my waypoint. "go to" Same thing. Completely locked up.

Absolutely frustrated. And yes i know how to use a gps and have been using them for 10 years. But 3 scx,s with the same problem? Its not possible.

[+laker91]

Doesn't sound that far fetched to me. I kill electric watches. Quit wearing one about 15 years ago because I was tired of buying a new one every 3-6 months. Sometimes my phone will flake out on me for no reason. (Not just my current one, but several that I have used.) Sometimes caching can be challenge when my 62s says one thing and my phone says to go the exact opposite. That's about the time I really start looking for geotrails.

[+Viajero Perdido]

Once I accidentally the whole thing. It never worked after that.

 

~~~

 

Do you have "lock on road" turned on?

[+Glenn]

Sounds like you are having the "sticky" issue described the Sticky issue on Garmin GPS thread. Apparently many Garmin users have experienced it but Garmin isn't able to reproduce it so they don't/can't officially recognize the bug.

[+Lil Devil]

Maybe you have a magnetic personality. Are women attracted to you too?

[+cerberus1]

Some reason, now that I have a sorta-smart phone, I get the arrow pointing at me or every way other than the direction I should be headed. My 60csx was always clipped to my belt above my left pocket (where I usually keep phones.)

I started placing my 60csx on the strap for my little camera bag (with the clip), which now sits about mid-chest.

The arrow works fine now. Not sure why.

[+sv_ted]

I use my Oregon 450 on my mountain bike mounted on the handlebars. I noticed that the compass would point in the correct direction as long as I was moving. If I stopped it would point off in an odd direction. Long story short, the handlebars are made of chrome-moly steel and are slightly magnetic. As long as I am moving at a reasonable pace the standard compass (based on movement) will work fine. When I move slowly or stop the electronic compass will take over and be affected by the magnetic handlebars.

 

You may be wearing or carrying something metallic that is slightly magnetized and affecting your compass.

[zedex]

Thanks for the fast replies. It seems that the csx works pretty well in a car. I tested it on foot and even let my buddy test it because he didnt believe i was having these problems. Hes a sar guy and uses an old etrex with 0 problems. He gets back and says...."yea, your gps is screwed. When hunting i do carry lots of metalic objects like knives,leatherman in my pack which is not near the gps. My rifle is stainless steel but could still be magnetic if its 4000 series SS. I have never tried sticking a magnet to it. Even so, one time i did get off my quad when my gps was locked up and walked with no gear on me. I ended up punting the gps a few times and good thing they are pretty dadgum durable cause it would be completely toast by now. Very frustrating. I have probably spent $1000 on gps,s the last 5 years, garmin is no help whatsoever.

I wear watches both quarts and autos and they run smoothly. No magnetism. If you ask me , i seem to repel people if anything, so explain that:)Its not my breath.

I just find this too unbelievable, 3 csx,s. Its either me,or my maps, or the all of my csx,s.Maybe i should buy my cs back from my friend because that thing was rock solid.

I did watch the sticky video and have never actually watched my coordinants changing. Maybe i should try that. Lock on road is "not" turned on. Still though. How do you explain my "go to" arrow pointing backwards. CSX #2 the "go to" arrow pointed 90 degrees sideways.

Maddening as hell.Is it me? Is it the gps?

[+webscouter.]

Do you calibrate the compass everytime you change the batteries? If you don't the electronic compass will do funny things.

[+chris-66]

Hi,

doesn't have the 60csx an option to turn off the magnetic compass and use the GPS

compass?

 

Chris

[+Indotguy]

Does the issue also effect magnetic (non-electronic) compasses?

Edited February 8, 2012 by Indotguy

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

Maybe you have a magnetic personality. Are women attracted to you too?

 

+1

[+chuck4564]

Much of the OPs event descriptions are consistent with 60CSs performance I have seen when the compass needs to be calibrated. After I noticed this odd behavior I started recalibrating the compass after every battery change and the incidence of odd behavior did not reoccur. From the compass screen: menu, calibrate compass to calibrate.

 

Some of the OPs event descriptions suggest there is also something else happening other than the compass calibration issue. I'll bet there is some iron based object that is causing objectionable performance. Electronics (phone, PDA, watch...), tools (leatherman, pocket knife, rifle, quad, bike), other accessories (belt buckle, rings, bracelet, necklace) may cause issues.

 

Consistent compass recalibration is a good first step towards reliable compass performance.

[+Lieblweb]

My husband and I have an Oregon 450 and..... The GPS is on a carabiner. He'd attach his car keys to that carabiner. While hiking/caching...holding the GPS with his car keys directly underneath the GPS in one hand. The GPS did not like it....was all over the place. We just figured the 'chip' in the key was causing some sort of interference. The day we discovered it and removed the key, the GPS was just fine after that.

[+Cacheoholic]

Turn off the worthless 2-axis electronic compass and I think your problems will go away. The GPS must be help PERFECTLY FLAT for the electronic compass to work.

[ao318]

I have a 60csx, actually have had 3 because of warranty issues, that does what you are describing. In fact all three have done it and it bothered me quite a bit until I figured out a fix that seems to work for me. First, the GPSr must be held completely flat when walking and using the electroninc compass or it will not work correctly. The second thing I do is to calibrate the unit as soon as I get out of my car and start my walk, hike, or geocaching adventure. The third thing I found was that if my GPSr was doing this and I put in a fresh set of batteries, no matter what my battery life was showing on the unit, the problem would go away. Just remember to recalibrate the unit.

 

Since doing this, I have had no lingering issues with the compass pointing the wrong way. I still get the initial wayward pointing but as soon as I put in a fresh set of batteries and recalibrate the unit, the problem goes away. I hope this helps you out.

[+Cacheoholic]

Or...you could just turn off the electronic compass???

[zedex]

Hi. I dont actually use the electronic compass at all. I have never used it and will never use it. The only reason i calibrate it is so the gps works like it is supposed to. The arrow i am refering to is on the map page and the arrow actually "supposedly" points to the waypoint on the map. If i do go to the compass screen it is also locked up. I always recalibrate the compass after every battery install. I have been doing it religiously ever since i bought my first csx.

So normally, when my gps works,on the map page, the "go to"arrow will point to the waypoint. If i happen to turn or not walk directly towards the waypoint the map will reorientate and i will have the visual reference that i need to turn and walk towards the waypoint. This is whats supposed to happen and does on occasion . I make sure the gps is absolutely horizontal. Makes no difference. On a clear day with 3 ft resolution the gps will sometimes guide me 180 degrees off course. sometimes exactly 90 degrees off course. On occasion the gps will point to the waypoint but when i walk i can see on the map that i am actually walking 90 degrees off course. I can see this on the map breadcrumb trail. So if i notice this i will turn the gps sideways so the antenae is pointing to the left of the direction i am walking and i can see on the breadcrumb trail that i am walking directly towards the waypoint. No rime or reason why or when this happens . It just does all the time. If i am the problem or my body is causing these abnormalities, why is it that it will also happen when my buddy tries my gps. I guess i will try some different maps and see if that helps. Its not only very very frustrating, its also dangerous as i dont like getting lost in the BC mountains. The only reason i wasnt badly lost the last time is i had radio contact with my hunting buddy who is very familiar with this particular terrain. He guided me back to where i had visual reference to where i was.

Thanks for the feedback.

Edited February 9, 2012 by zedex

[+Cacheoholic]

Unless you turned off the electronic compass, you were using the electronic compass. All display screens are oriented in 2 possible modes. Either electronic compass or GPS tracking. I was not referring to the compass display screen. I was referring to the electronic compass. Page to the compass screen. Press and hold the Page button until the display says “Compass Turned Off”. Now you must be moving for the GPS to calculate your direction. This eliminates any error caused by the electronic compass or related electronic compass calibration.

[zedex]

hmmm. I will try that. Thanks.

[John E Cache]

Still though. How do you explain my "go to" arrow pointing backwards. CSX #2 the "go to" arrow pointed 90 degrees sideways.

Maddening as hell.Is it me? Is it the gps?

You said you have used the GPS for ten years. Your brain might be trained to think the arrow is somehow related to the screen orientation. If the arrow points to the upper right corner your brain thinks the waypoint is to the right of where the screen is facing. That is not true with a magnetic sensor. The arrow points to the waypoint no matter where the screen is facing. One way of getting your brain from thinking about the screen orientation is to put something straight along the arrow, like a pencil or a straw and the sight along that.

 

If that is not the case, you could lay the GPS down and walk away a few feet to see if you are magnetic. Magnetic near fields drop quickly at a cubic rate(two times the distance drops the field strength eight times). You can do the pencil thing too. Turning the GPS 90 degrees, like CSX#2, may surprise you. Like you, I was a long time GPS user before I got my first GPS with a magnetic sensor and it took me awhile for the light bulb to go on.

 

Three GPSs sounds like its you to me, but coincidences do happen.

[+DonB]

Doesn't sound that far fetched to me. I kill electric watches. Quit wearing one about 15 years ago because I was tired of buying a new one every 3-6 months. Sometimes my phone will flake out on me for no reason. (Not just my current one, but several that I have used.) Sometimes caching can be challenge when my 62s says one thing and my phone says to go the exact opposite. That's about the time I really start looking for geotrails.

My dad would kill regular watches, we think he magnetized them. I don't know if it had to do with the fact that he used electric hand tools quite a bit of the time while working.

[zedex]

Well, im a fabricator so im welding or using electric equipment 8 hours a day. Is there any way to tell, other than my gps:) that your body is exhibiting some type of interference? I have had several MRIs and they went without a hitch and i have no metal in my body.

Still though. My 60 cs never had this problem.

[7rxc]

Perhaps it's what you wear. There are lists of materials that react with one another to develop static electricity charges on each other... and some will retain the charge for quite a while under the right conditions. Mixing natural and synthetic fabrics can do that... wear a wool sweater over a synthetic shirt and then take it off... those charges can definitely affect a regular compass.

Sometimes you don't even have to take it off, just rubbing them together for a while will do it. You can of course ground the charge to dissipate it.

 

Riding in vehicles can also build up a charge. Helicopters even worse at times. It probably occurs in nature as well, say branches rubbing together. And the Earth itself can and does develop charges all the time, especially pre lightning strikes. GPS may be trying to tell you something. Clouds do not have to be present for a charge to be there... even a weak one is pretty strong.

 

Doug 7rxc

[zedex]

Never thought of that.Excellent point . I always wear a thick wool sweater under synthetic jacket/jackets and synthetic wicking under the wool. I know wool has a lot of static. My body with gear might be a big leaking friggin capacitor. If that's it Doug im gonna send you a case of high quality beer.

[7rxc]

Never thought of that.Excellent point . I always wear a thick wool sweater under synthetic jacket/jackets and synthetic wicking under the wool. I know wool has a lot of static. My body with gear might be a big leaking friggin capacitor. If that's it Doug im gonna send you a case of high quality beer.

 

Well... it's just a possibility until proven. I've noticed that something occasionally messes with my hand compass around here (don't have one on the GPS).. and since it eventually clears up and goes back to normal, I have my suspicions. Good luck.

 

Where in BC are you (area or major community only), I'm up here in the wilds of south eastern Kootenay's (Elk Valley) which some claim to be a suburb of Alberta...

 

Edit to add:

Triboelectric Effect

 

 

Doug 7rxc

Edited February 12, 2012 by 7rxc

[zedex]

Okanagan valley Doug.

[xyzee]

zedex,

I setup my SiRF 60 CSx with the Map Page set to Track Up, El Compass on, heading set to 01 mh and 5 sec, Normal with WAAS on. Then started walking at different speeds to a backyard GoTo point.

As you described it, the black position arrow was turning in all kinds of different directions, as the Map Page was jus-a-swinging.

Then back to my normal use, El Comp off, and North Up. Works better for me that way, with "straight arrow".

[zedex]

Im gonna try it with compass off XYZ, next time i get out.

[7rxc]

Okanagan valley Doug.

That's a good area to be... and from. I came over here from Vernon (2005) and Toronto (1995) before that.

 

I agree that the personal settings are important. I only have a Map60cx, no el compass and no altimeter there.

 

Almost all of my geocaching is done on the so called 'compass' screen. That large arrow points from where you are to the 'target' selected in your GoTo. I use data fields that show Accuracy, Distance and BEARING. That's most of what I use, the arrow is just for convenience when I need to glance. I also go with track up on the map display... and use the sat page for coordinates and other data if I'm having a problem, such as wondering what sats are where in relation to the mountains etc.

Be careful to differentiate between Bearing (you to target) and Heading (direction of travel). I also read that some GPS allow one to select between next waypoint on a track and the final destination... don't want to mix those up or you will be confused.

Something to be said for the KISS principle. Just keep getting the distance down to zero if possible.

 

Sometimes I use the map with the track showing, but mostly for getting a feel of where I'm wandering around. It isn't a lot of use when the Accuracy level (epe) is a bit higher since you could be anywhere in the zone.

 

I've read a lot about how the csx compass indicator can be misleading, but I can't comment first hand, I am going to read that manual. It does have to be held level to indicate properly and I also believe that the top of the GPS represents N. I get a funny feeling when I read that the el compass indicator points anywhere but North... it shouldn't have anything to do with where the cache is, that is the job of the big arrow in the bearing to target indicator.

 

BTW if you need more info on experimenting with the electrostatic stuff, go see Kevin at the Science Centre in Vernon... I volunteered there until 2001. He was still there when we last talked, but not always when times are slow.

 

Doug 7rxc