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mo pirate

75th Anniversary geocoin for the Hindenburg

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I have a design submitted at the mint for a new coin to commemorate the 75th Anniversary of the Hindenburg diaster on May 6, 1937. I should have them in April I think. It is a huge 3D 3" air ballon in Satin Silver with all the features of a mini derigible. It is trackable at geocaching.com. A p-tag will also be included in the set. Let me know what you think and any comments. Should I have some made without the German Marking (swastika)for our German geocachers? Or is it ok since it is not a promotion of it but a historically accurate reference only.

 

519aa6d6-067e-4ff3-8227-6dd6793b66ce.jpg?rnd=0.09853762

Edited by Eartha

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that is cool i like it i would possibly be interested in it

 

they were a little more expensive to make than my TITANIC coin w/pathtag but I am hoping to keep them at $18 also for the set. I will post when I have them. But remember I think it will be early April.

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I really like the idea of the Zeppelin Coin, but as a German I might be a tad too sensitive about the Swastika.

Fact is, any show of the Nazi Symbol is prohibited over here. I was totally shocked to see model airplanes and tanks with the Swastika on in an English shop for model trains.

 

I'd much prefer not having the Swastika on the coin, period. Did Groundspeak approve of this design?

 

 

Edit: silly typo

Edited by ElliPirelli

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I really like the idea of the Zeppelin Coin, but as a German I might be a tad too sensitive about the Swastika.

Fact is, any show of the Nazi Symbol is prohibited over here. I was totally shocked to see model airplanes and tanks with the Swastika on in an English shop for model trains.

 

I'd much prefer not having the Swastika on the coin, period. Did Groundspeak approve of this design?

 

 

Edit: silly typo

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I have the art submitted to the mint and they are making some adjustments. I have heard of the prohibition so that is my concern. I may have them mint some with and some without. It is not a promotion or vindication of the Nazi emblem or what it stood for but merely a historical representation of what the actual Hindenburg looked like. Again, I might have them do a run with and then do another run without. I believe in the models they are transfers you can opt to place on the model or leave off if you would rather. I think most people (over here anyway) would want it on there to depict the actual replication of the historical ship. In Germany I am sure it has a more strict interpretation. It is one reason I am posting it here to get feedback to see what I should do. AND I thank you for your input as I have sold many Titanic geocoins to Germany geocachers/collectors.

 

again thanks, anyone else?

MO Pirate

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Personally I would not produce any coins containing the Swastika. I understand the 'historic relevance', but please be aware that something like this may for example be abused for propaganda purposes by neonazis. I think you could very well replace this symbol with something else,using the same color scheme.

It's been asked already, but I also was wondering if this design has been approved already by Groundspeak.

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I like the coin WITH the Swastika!!!

I'd do some with and some without.

I fully understand how many people feel about the Swastika.

Originally, it was a good luck symbol and the image was the reverse of the German image.

 

I hope to be able to get one (prefer with Swastik)when they're done!!!

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I like the coin WITH the Swastika!!!

I'd do some with and some without.

I fully understand how many people feel about the Swastika.

Originally, it was a good luck symbol and the image was the reverse of the German image.

 

I hope to be able to get one (prefer with Swastik)when they're done!!!

 

agreed

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I'm still curious. Has Groundspeak approved of this design?

 

Geocoins are not about historical correctness of a Zeppelin, but for traveling the world in a family-friendly game. Not all coins end up in somebody's collection.

 

I don't consider the Swastika a suitable symbol on a geocoin, especially, as it is illegal at least in some parts.

 

Why not use the leatherman logo instead? You'd have a round symbol fitting for a geocoin.

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I'm still curious. Has Groundspeak approved of this design?

 

Geocoins are not about historical correctness of a Zeppelin, but for traveling the world in a family-friendly game. Not all coins end up in somebody's collection.

 

I don't consider the Swastika a suitable symbol on a geocoin, especially, as it is illegal at least in some parts.

 

Why not use the leatherman logo instead? You'd have a round symbol fitting for a geocoin.

 

+1

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I like the coin WITH the Swastika!!!

I'd do some with and some without.

I fully understand how many people feel about the Swastika.

Originally, it was a good luck symbol and the image was the reverse of the German image.

 

I hope to be able to get one (prefer with Swastik)when they're done!!!

 

agreed

I have not heard of any objections yet so maybe the mint is waiting on final art before going to Groundspeak. Personally I think it would be a bad move for them to start selecting things like this to reject and some other things that they may approve. I guess it is their decision tho. Since I am a Historian, I want it portrayed the way it was, My parents both fought in WWII so I sure as heck am not supporting any of the Nazi sentiments. This stuff could go on and on. American had a Revolutionary war so lets not do any symbols to make the British mad, or in the Civil war lets not do any Confederate flags to make anyone mad, etc etc. History is History. So what I am saying is I don't see how they can OK some but not others. and that is just my personal opinion.

 

I will wait til I get all the adjustments made with the mint and see if anything shakes out.

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Well I don't think (and don't hope) that Groundspeak will approve a design that WILL be illegal in their second biggest market (Germany). I'm not German, but Dutch, and feel very strongly against this too. As I suspect a lot of Europeans will.

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I like the coin WITH the Swastika!!!

I'd do some with and some without.

I fully understand how many people feel about the Swastika.

Originally, it was a good luck symbol and the image was the reverse of the German image.

 

I hope to be able to get one (prefer with Swastik)when they're done!!!

 

agreed

I have not heard of any objections yet so maybe the mint is waiting on final art before going to Groundspeak. Personally I think it would be a bad move for them to start selecting things like this to reject and some other things that they may approve. I guess it is their decision tho. Since I am a Historian, I want it portrayed the way it was, My parents both fought in WWII so I sure as heck am not supporting any of the Nazi sentiments. This stuff could go on and on. American had a Revolutionary war so lets not do any symbols to make the British mad, or in the Civil war lets not do any Confederate flags to make anyone mad, etc etc. History is History. So what I am saying is I don't see how they can OK some but not others. and that is just my personal opinion.

 

I will wait til I get all the adjustments made with the mint and see if anything shakes out.

i could not agree more with you historical importance of it and i think without the Swastika on it it could be any other dirigible airship

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Interesting, I was stationed at Lakehurst, NJ with the US Navy Sea Bees RNMCB21 and live and cache nearby and have been in Hanger 1 several times. Cool set.

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...snip for brevity......

 

This stuff could go on and on. American had a Revolutionary war so lets not do any symbols to make the British mad, or in the Civil war lets not do any Confederate flags to make anyone mad, etc etc. History is History. So what I am saying is I don't see how they can OK some but not others. and that is just my personal opinion.

 

 

From Wikipedia (heading Swastika)

 

"The German (and Austrian) postwar criminal code makes the public showing of the Hakenkreuz (the swastika) and other Nazi symbols illegal and punishable, except for scholarly reasons. It is even censored from the illustrations on boxes of model kits, and the decals that come in the box. Modellers seeking an accurate rendition often have to either stencil on the marking, or purchase separate decals. It is also censored from the reprints of 1930s railway timetables published by the Reichsbahn. The eagle remains, but appears to be holding a solid black circle between its talons. The swastikas on Hindu and Jain temples are exempt, as religious symbols cannot be banned in Germany."

 

Personal objections are of course personal but they also stated a legal objection as the use of the swastika would be illegal in Germany. Geocaching is quite popular in Germany as a public sport. Any geocoin with a swastika in Germany (or Austria) could theorectically cause problems for the cache owner/ cacher. This is not true of the Confederate flag or even any Anti-British stuff of the revolutionary war.

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I love the zeppelin shaped coin! Oh I wish I had to money to buy one... but ... no money no honey!

 

Ecen if Swastiga is an ancient and powerfull symbol in many civilizations... including India, Greece (meander is similar... but it turns on the opposite...), the fact that was uded from the nazi's... turned this symbol to a forbiten one!

 

this reminds me that phoenix symbol... it was one of the greatest symbols in greece! it was on our first coins and symbolized greece that rebirths from her ashes! we loved that symbol... until 1967! when we had the militay goverment... that we were calling hounta, they used this symbol as a symbol if their revolution... (the militarists)..... we had it until 1974 if I remember well... but after that period... this symbols was ruined for good! when we see a phoenix getting birth from its ashes... our mind goes directly to the hounta, and not to the real meaning of the symbol....

the same goes with swastiga! when someone sees it... his/her mind will directly go to the nazi period!

 

I fully understand that itis historicly correct to put the german flag of that period on the zeppelin... but I can also understand that many europeans and not only.... will not see it in a good way! Germans do not allow it at all! but even in other countries... you will face problems! In many countries... there are also familiew who lost members in the holocauft.. I am sure there are many who are geocachers too...

 

an other symbol that is in the black list.. is the SS... the 2 thunder like S....oh.. this brings even worse memories... in many countries.... huh!

 

If I am allowed... I would suggest a clever thing I have seen in some wwii models of tanks, aircrafts, etc...

instead of the swastiga.. but the cross! it is not a Nazi symbol but much older!!! it was used in the nazi period too... and one of their most famous medals was the iron cross! the medal is no longer in use I do not know why... but even this medal is not a nazi one! the ones of that period had the swastiga.. ut all the others not! in 1956 I think... the swastiga crasses were changed into a non swastiga crosses... for those who had earned them... (they gave the old back and received the new...)

so...Use this cross! everyone will know... and everyone will probably be happy! you can also use the 3 coloured flag or WWII german navy.. but..I do not know...

 

I hope our german friends here will tell us if that, the use of the cross I am talking aobut is ok! :)

 

If not... consider to use the other cross... that was in use then and even now in the german forces... the black cross with the white lines around... it is like a square.... I am sure you will find photos... but I am more in the use of the first cross...

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iron_cross_image_1283082903.jpg

 

Is this the image or cross you refer to? I put this on the forum to get feedback and that is what I am getting. I am told the mint usually sends it to Groundspeak at final art approval BUT has sent it over now after all the questions on this forum.

 

thanks to all for their comments. I am not arguing for or against. I would not like to go against Germanys prohibition of the swastika. Maybe it could be replaced by something but then it is not factual. Wew ill see after all the info is evaluated.

 

thanks again,

MO Pirate

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I love your designs, but I have to say that I would not buy this coin if it had a swastika on it. It evokes such negative feelings among so many people (for good reason, IMHO), and is still used today as a symbol among groups that promote hatred and bigotry. I understand your desire to keep it historically accurate, but really think you should reconsider how necessary that is considering the angst it is sure to cause.

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This discussion about the swastika may fall along American versus European lines. In the U.S., the first amendment (freedom of speech) is revered with almost religious fervor. Well, maybe it really does rise to the height of religion. When you start banning symbols, you start banning speech and ideas. My strong feeling is that if an idea is wrong, then it will fall on its lack of value. Evil things hide under rocks and cannot stand to see the light of day. If we ban a symbol, then we ban an idea and in the dark it just becomes stronger and stronger. All parents and teachers know that if you want a child to read a book, the best thing to do is to forbid it.

 

I also strongly believe that to find the truth, we need to openly discuss ideas and not throw people in jail because they express doubts or come to conclusions that are unpopular. If we ban the swastika, then it becomes easier to ban triangles (gay symbol), crosses, civil rights symbols, or perhaps the mention of Charles Darwin. Is Charles Darwin good or bad? Is homosexuality good or bad? Is Christianity good or bad? Is Islam good or bad? Is abortion good or bad? Is global warming good or bad? All of these ideas have been seen as evil or good at one time or another and the only way to discern the truth about them is to bring them into the light.

 

There was once an airship that had swastikas on it and that airship fell from the skies in flame. Was it good that the airship burned? Was it bad? Was the loss of human life good or bad? Were the people in it evil because they willingly boarded a craft that flew swastikas? If we do not look at the truth with open eyes, then we will become ignorant and we will be doomed to repeat the worst parts of history over and over again.

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If we do not look at the truth with open eyes, then we will become ignorant and we will be doomed to repeat the worst parts of history over and over again.

Excuse me, this might be true for a political or ethical discussion.

 

But we're discussing a GEOCOIN Design, something fun, light, family friendly.

 

To put Europeans or Germans in the corner of censor is ridiculus.

Geocoins are not about historical correctness. You still can commemorate the disaster of the burning Hindenburg without showing its flag. If this is just about remembering the accident, then the Nazi flag isn't necessary.

Especially as it is illegal. Maybe not in your part of the world, but in mine.

And we're playing an international game, so I guess, it wouldn't too much to ask to keep these things in mind.

 

Coins often have an agenda, I wonder what the agenda with the Swastika is...

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If we do not look at the truth with open eyes, then we will become ignorant and we will be doomed to repeat the worst parts of history over and over again.

Excuse me, this might be true for a political or ethical discussion.

 

But we're discussing a GEOCOIN Design, something fun, light, family friendly.

 

. . . (snip) . . .

 

Coins often have an agenda, I wonder what the agenda with the Swastika is...

 

Fair enough, I mostly agree that geocoins should be light and fun. I definitely agree that they should be family friendly.

 

My reaction is because the laws in Europe that forbid certain speech really bother me. They bother me on a personal level because I have worked for corporations that really did not like that I had ideas that were different than theirs. I understand that employees should not say things that are against company interests, but I was once told that I was fifteen minutes away from being fired from a well paying job, because I dared to publish that coal might run out some day. Free speech is always under threat and the desire to suppress it is always nearby.

 

Yes, as you pointed out, certain speech is illegal in some parts of Europe. In the U.S. printing a symbol is considered to be an act of "speech". However, showing a woman without a veil (hijab) is illegal in some parts of the world. Should we ban coins that show a woman with uncovered hair because that would be illegal in some parts of the world?

 

You ask if the coin with the swastikas has an agenda. I really don't know, maybe it does, maybe it does not. If anyone does not like it, just don't buy it. At eighteen U.S. dollars, I doubt that this coin will show up in many caches. SO I doubt that too many innocent children will find it by accident while caching.

 

The swastika was favored by a certain leader who rose to power in the first half of the 20th century. We should no longer be afraid of him because he is dead and buried. What we should be afraid of is that other leaders like him will try to rise again, but they will use new symbols and new language. Remember this leader only rose to power because the people allowed him to. Without followers, he would not have achieved much. He appealed to people because he claimed to know what was right and he would stop the dangerous people who thought the wrong way or believed the wrong way. He was very comfortable with laws that stopped people from saying certain unpopular things. Everyone should relax because he is long gone. All that remains today is the human desire to control our surroundings and the people who annoy us. However, when money or resources become scarce, the human desire is to exert more control on our surroundings and stop the people with "dangerous ideas". When people come along, who say they can make the world safe from "dangerous people" and ideas, is awakens in us very human desires to acquire safety at any cost.

 

There is a song that I like very much that talks about the desire we all have to find leaders who have simple answers that will get done what we feel needs to be done. It goes like this:

 

I'm impressed, I'm impressed

When that gorilla beats his chest

I fall to bits

I confess

I admit; I'm impressed

When the torpedo in the vest barks his orders

I'm impressed

 

We as humans say that we don't like totalitarian leaders, but we keep giving them power over and over again. We will not stop this tendency by stopping people from talking about one particular leader. Instead, I believe that we need to honestly look at why we as humans get a thrill when they start pounding the lectern (many people call it a podium).

 

This thread is probably raising up too many raw emotions and will probably be shut down soon enough, but I feel that I need to say something because the desire to kill unpopular ideas happens in the most innocent situations. When we start banning ideas, we are asserting that we know which ones are ultimately good and which ones are ultimately bad, but do we as humans have the truth figured out? Are we ready to say that we are done thinking about certain topics? So, why should be have a historically accurate portrayal of the Hindenburg when it might offend some people? It is because, the Hindenburg was part of a much larger history and some people want to believe that it was all evil. But, the people who built the Hindenburg were the same people who elected a most unfortunate leader. These people were capable of creating technological miracles, but they were also capable of allowing a monster to lead them. As humans, we are all capable of achieving the same greatness and making the same terrible mistakes. When we stop talking honestly about those people in the past, we begin to believe that they were very different from us and we start to believe that we are so different that we could not make the same mistakes. Those people who allowed a leader to gain so much power over them were also the people capable of making wonderful airships and dreadful wars, just like you and me.

 

I have hopefully made my position clear enough, so I will say no more about it. I'll do my best to get back to fun and light

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This discussion about the swastika may fall along American versus European lines. In the U.S., the first amendment (freedom of speech) is revered with almost religious fervor.

 

I am pretty sure there are thingsthat Americans wouldn't like to see on geocoins either. How about a geocoin shaped like the planes that dove into the Twin Towers, with a tiny Osama Bin Laden in the cockpit? Does freedom of speech still apply then?

 

Also, I don't think you can compare the nazi period to the Civil War, Napoleontic wars (or anything else for that matter). And not even because of its unparalleld scale (6 million jews exterminated alone, not to mention all other victims). I am pretty sure that 50 years after Napoleon a geocoin modeled after him would have been frowned upon (had they existed then of course). Maybe nazi/Hitler themed geocoins wil be no problem at all in say another 150 years. Right now the wounds are still too fresh for people to purely look at the historic aspects of subjects like this.

 

As has been mentioned before, geocoins are supposed to be fun, light and family-friendly. 'politically' loaded thems are not the only problematic ones. I remember a couple of years ago I believe Dorkfish made a geocoin with nude people on it, and could only make a non-trackable one. Everybody understood the logic behind that. Nobody raised the 'freedom of speech' point then. So maybe if you really MUST make a coin with the swastika on it (personally I'd much prefer if you didn't), you could make trackable ones without and non-trackables ones with this horrible symbol.

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This discussion about the swastika may fall along American versus European lines. In the U.S., the first amendment (freedom of speech) is revered with almost religious fervor.

 

I am pretty sure there are thingsthat Americans wouldn't like to see on geocoins either. How about a geocoin shaped like the planes that dove into the Twin Towers, with a tiny Osama Bin Laden in the cockpit? Does freedom of speech still apply then?

 

Yes. Yes it does. Our freedom of speech gives us the right to say almost anything (slander and things like yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater that isn't actually on fire are two examples of what we can't say), regardless of how dumb, insensitive, or offensive they may be.

People would be extremely dissapointed/offended/hurt/insulted/angered by such coins as you mention, but the creators would still be protected by their First Amendment rights and have the right to mint and try to sell such coins.

 

Also, I don't think you can compare the nazi period to the Civil War, Napoleontic wars (or anything else for that matter). And not even because of its unparalleld scale (6 million jews exterminated alone, not to mention all other victims). I am pretty sure that 50 years after Napoleon a geocoin modeled after him would have been frowned upon (had they existed then of course). Maybe nazi/Hitler themed geocoins wil be no problem at all in say another 150 years. Right now the wounds are still too fresh for people to purely look at the historic aspects of subjects like this.

 

As has been mentioned before, geocoins are supposed to be fun, light and family-friendly. 'politically' loaded thems are not the only problematic ones. I remember a couple of years ago I believe Dorkfish made a geocoin with nude people on it, and could only make a non-trackable one. Everybody understood the logic behind that. Nobody raised the 'freedom of speech' point then. So maybe if you really MUST make a coin with the swastika on it (personally I'd much prefer if you didn't), you could make trackable ones without and non-trackables ones with this horrible symbol.

 

Now to the other issue, Groundspeak has no obligation to sell or host a tracking number for ANY coin they don't want to. But they can't prevent someone from minting a coin. That is, as you mentioned, why people make some coins untrackable.

 

Now for my 2 cents: when I first read this topic I was on the side of historical accuracy for the zeppelin markings. Now I'm not so sure. My reason for changing my mind is not to avoid giving offense, but more because using the leatherman G ties it into geocaching.

 

I too am curious to see what side Groundspeak weighs in on. I think they will say no to the swastika.

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I am pretty sure there are thingsthat Americans wouldn't like to see on geocoins either. How about a geocoin shaped like the planes that dove into the Twin Towers, with a tiny Osama Bin Laden in the cockpit? Does freedom of speech still apply then?

 

Yes. Yes it does. Our freedom of speech gives us the right to say almost anything (slander and things like yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater that isn't actually on fire are two examples of what we can't say), regardless of how dumb, insensitive, or offensive they may be.

People would be extremely dissapointed/offended/hurt/insulted/angered by such coins as you mention, but the creators would still be protected by their First Amendment rights and have the right to mint and try to sell such coins.

 

 

I know Freedom of Speech would still apply. I didn't phrase my question very well. What I meant to ask was: would you still be in favor of such a coin being produced, fighting for it with the Freedom of Speech argument?

Of course Groundspeak has the last say on this, and I also think (and hope) they will not approve of the swastika (more than anything I hope it won't go unnoticed during the approval process and slip by that way). No-one can stop anyone from making a non-trackable version with the swastika on it, but I would strongly discourage the production of these too. If only for the practical reason that they may end up as swag in caches in countries where such items are against the law, creating problems for the CO and/or other involved geocachers. A geocoin is never going to be a realistic representation of anything. There are many reasons why one needs to deviate from the original item one is trying to base a geocoin on (material, size, colors, detail, etc. etc.). The reason discusses here seems like a valid one to me.

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iron_cross_image_1283082903.jpg

 

Is this the image or cross you refer to? I put this on the forum to get feedback and that is what I am getting. I am told the mint usually sends it to Groundspeak at final art approval BUT has sent it over now after all the questions on this forum.

 

thanks to all for their comments. I am not arguing for or against. I would not like to go against Germanys prohibition of the swastika. Maybe it could be replaced by something but then it is not factual. Wew ill see after all the info is evaluated.

 

thanks again,

MO Pirate

 

I can not see the cross... :( well.. the cross I am talking about was in some german flags even in WWII...so it will be closer to the real one... after all.. swastiga is a kind of a cross...

 

The tag is amazing! :)

 

Can I ask something? I saaw that you are puting the tracking number almost where the number of the zeppelin was right? will you also write in tiny letters the name of the zeppelin? I think it was close to the front and in calligraphic letters that were in use at that time in germany...... can this be done? I do not think it can be done with colour right?

Edited by GATOULIS

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I love the zeppelin shaped coin! Oh I wish I had to money to buy one... but ... no money no honey!

 

Ecen if Swastiga is an ancient and powerfull symbol in many civilizations... including India, Greece (meander is similar... but it turns on the opposite...), the fact that was uded from the nazi's... turned this symbol to a forbiten one!

 

this reminds me that phoenix symbol... it was one of the greatest symbols in greece! it was on our first coins and symbolized greece that rebirths from her ashes! we loved that symbol... until 1967! when we had the militay goverment... that we were calling hounta, they used this symbol as a symbol if their revolution... (the militarists)..... we had it until 1974 if I remember well... but after that period... this symbols was ruined for good! when we see a phoenix getting birth from its ashes... our mind goes directly to the hounta, and not to the real meaning of the symbol....

the same goes with swastiga! when someone sees it... his/her mind will directly go to the nazi period!

 

I fully understand that itis historicly correct to put the german flag of that period on the zeppelin... but I can also understand that many europeans and not only.... will not see it in a good way! Germans do not allow it at all! but even in other countries... you will face problems! In many countries... there are also familiew who lost members in the holocauft.. I am sure there are many who are geocachers too...

 

an other symbol that is in the black list.. is the SS... the 2 thunder like S....oh.. this brings even worse memories... in many countries.... huh!

 

If I am allowed... I would suggest a clever thing I have seen in some wwii models of tanks, aircrafts, etc...

instead of the swastiga.. but the cross! it is not a Nazi symbol but much older!!! it was used in the nazi period too... and one of their most famous medals was the iron cross! the medal is no longer in use I do not know why... but even this medal is not a nazi one! the ones of that period had the swastiga.. ut all the others not! in 1956 I think... the swastiga crasses were changed into a non swastiga crosses... for those who had earned them... (they gave the old back and received the new...)

so...Use this cross! everyone will know... and everyone will probably be happy! you can also use the 3 coloured flag or WWII german navy.. but..I do not know...

 

I hope our german friends here will tell us if that, the use of the cross I am talking aobut is ok! :)

 

If not... consider to use the other cross... that was in use then and even now in the german forces... the black cross with the white lines around... it is like a square.... I am sure you will find photos... but I am more in the use of the first cross...

 

I think we have decided to go with the leatherman symbol in place of the historically correct swastika so that Groundspeak and all countries will allow it. I am still mulling over whether or not to do a limited run in non trackable with a decal that can be placed so collectors can have an accurate coin here in the US. I will most likely wait and see what the costs involved are but for now the main run (which will be trackable) will have the other symbol in that spot.

 

Thanks

MO Pirate

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I love the zeppelin shaped coin! Oh I wish I had to money to buy one... but ... no money no honey!

 

Ecen if Swastiga is an ancient and powerfull symbol in many civilizations... including India, Greece (meander is similar... but it turns on the opposite...), the fact that was uded from the nazi's... turned this symbol to a forbiten one!

 

this reminds me that phoenix symbol... it was one of the greatest symbols in greece! it was on our first coins and symbolized greece that rebirths from her ashes! we loved that symbol... until 1967! when we had the militay goverment... that we were calling hounta, they used this symbol as a symbol if their revolution... (the militarists)..... we had it until 1974 if I remember well... but after that period... this symbols was ruined for good! when we see a phoenix getting birth from its ashes... our mind goes directly to the hounta, and not to the real meaning of the symbol....

the same goes with swastiga! when someone sees it... his/her mind will directly go to the nazi period!

 

I fully understand that itis historicly correct to put the german flag of that period on the zeppelin... but I can also understand that many europeans and not only.... will not see it in a good way! Germans do not allow it at all! but even in other countries... you will face problems! In many countries... there are also familiew who lost members in the holocauft.. I am sure there are many who are geocachers too...

 

an other symbol that is in the black list.. is the SS... the 2 thunder like S....oh.. this brings even worse memories... in many countries.... huh!

 

If I am allowed... I would suggest a clever thing I have seen in some wwii models of tanks, aircrafts, etc...

instead of the swastiga.. but the cross! it is not a Nazi symbol but much older!!! it was used in the nazi period too... and one of their most famous medals was the iron cross! the medal is no longer in use I do not know why... but even this medal is not a nazi one! the ones of that period had the swastiga.. ut all the others not! in 1956 I think... the swastiga crasses were changed into a non swastiga crosses... for those who had earned them... (they gave the old back and received the new...)

so...Use this cross! everyone will know... and everyone will probably be happy! you can also use the 3 coloured flag or WWII german navy.. but..I do not know...

 

I hope our german friends here will tell us if that, the use of the cross I am talking aobut is ok! :)

 

If not... consider to use the other cross... that was in use then and even now in the german forces... the black cross with the white lines around... it is like a square.... I am sure you will find photos... but I am more in the use of the first cross...

 

I think we have decided to go with the leatherman symbol in place of the historically correct swastika so that Groundspeak and all countries will allow it. I am still mulling over whether or not to do a limited run in non trackable with a decal that can be placed so collectors can have an accurate coin here in the US. I will most likely wait and see what the costs involved are but for now the main run (which will be trackable) will have the other symbol in that spot.

 

Thanks

MO Pirate

 

? what is the leatherman symbol? hmm... so you are thinking of making stickers of the flag?

 

can I suggest something? why not make the coin and leave the area there open (empty but to show where the flag goes..)... and with the coin to give a small set or stickers...on a paper.. with the original flags with the swastiga and the ones that is ok in all countries (letherman symbol0? Then.... the buyer can choose which ones will use! :)

 

so you will have all the coins trackable.. and it's up to the cacher how he/she wants the zeppelin to be! :D

 

can this be done? will that be ok with Groundspeak too?

 

edit to say.... Letherman symbol is the G symbol of geocaching? WOW! I didn't know that! Letherman was the one who made it?

Edited by GATOULIS

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In case I forgot to mention it Groundspeak did decline the use of the swastika on the trackable item. Therefore, I will go with the nice suggestion of the leatherman symbol in that section of the trackable coin. I too doubt many of these coins go into the wild but then again that is your choice. I have NOT decided yet to do a non trackable with a decal to replace the leatherman symbol or not. I will let you know on that later.

 

As far as the "track at geocaching.com" and the actual code, they are being moved to the top "spine" on the coin so when you see the coin fron either side you will see the actual Hindenburg name and the actual ship number on the sides. The bottom, of course, will hve the passenger area and engines on each side of the bottom.

 

So, speaking on the historical facts, How many survivors of the Hindenburg are still alive? I will let you do the research on that. I doubt if the kids on that fateful day knew anything about any symbol on the tail fins or cared about them then. And was the explosion ever deemed as intentional or an accident?

 

thanks,

MO Pirate

 

PS: FYI, this war was more than 50 years ago. and no mention of the vast number of "Native Americans" that disappeared from earth. But that can be a topic for another discussion as we all know this could go on and on.

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Well... I think that in 2007 in the 70 years of the disaster.... if I am right.. there were only 2 survivors left... Werner Franz who was a 14 year old cabin boy... when the disaster happent.. and he is the only who is still alive from the crue... and Werner Doehner who was a 8 year old child and he is the last living passenger... his whole family were traveling but only he, his brother and his mother survived! his father died in the disaster and his sister died in the hospital...

 

I do not know if they are still alive now! I hope they are! :)

 

about the theories of what happent... there are so many..... from accident and hydrogen leak, until a guy who had a pistol and commited suiside... it was even checked for sabotage! I saw a documentary in the TV a couple of years ago..... about it... scientsts were trying to find the reason... was it the bad weather and a lightening? was it a leak? was it an inside fire? was it a bullet from the pistol? was it a sabotage? if I remember well.. they had videow from that time plus what survivors sais or even eye witneses of the disaster! I think a survivor said that he smelled gas or petrol.. something like that in the passengers cabin... but they focused in something else... according to some eye witnesses.. there was probably a leak in the hidrogen.. and the inside the ballon areas were damaged or broken in a part....... the eye witnesses saw that a part of the outer ballon was waving... that meant that there was a leak and the inside holding stuff collapsed there... and the ballon was doin that.... if the hidrogen escaped and went in other areas too...

 

I do not remember a lot about the docuentary... but maybe this and the static electricity plus the bad weather (rain... so the ground was wet)... maybe were the reason... you see.. they had to throw ropes to the ground to tide the zeppelin... maybe this was a reason and this made an electric circuit... who knows....

 

I like zeppelins! :) unfortunatelly they are not used now.... they only have tiny ones for cameras in games... in basketball games for example....

Edited by GATOULIS

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Well... I think that in 2007 in the 70 years of the disaster.... if I am right.. there were only 2 survivors left... Werner Franz who was a 14 year old cabin boy... when the disaster happent.. and he is the only who is still alive from the crue... and Werner Doehner who was a 8 year old child and he is the last living passenger... his whole family were traveling but only he, his brother and his mother survived! his father died in the disaster and his sister died in the hospital...

 

I do not know if they are still alive now! I hope they are! :)

 

about the theories of what happent... there are so many..... from accident and hydrogen leak, until a guy who had a pistol and commited suiside... it was even checked for sabotage! I saw a documentary in the TV a couple of years ago..... about it... scientsts were trying to find the reason... was it the bad weather and a lightening? was it a leak? was it an inside fire? was it a bullet from the pistol? was it a sabotage? if I remember well.. they had videow from that time plus what survivors sais or even eye witneses of the disaster! I think a survivor said that he smelled gas or petrol.. something like that in the passengers cabin... but they focused in something else... according to some eye witnesses.. there was probably a leak in the hidrogen.. and the inside the ballon areas were damaged or broken in a part....... the eye witnesses saw that a part of the outer ballon was waving... that meant that there was a leak and the inside holding stuff collapsed there... and the ballon was doin that.... if the hidrogen escaped and went in other areas too...

 

I do not remember a lot about the docuentary... but maybe this and the static electricity plus the bad weather (rain... so the ground was wet)... maybe were the reason... you see.. they had to throw ropes to the ground to tide the zeppelin... maybe this was a reason and this made an electric circuit... who knows....

 

Yes, that is what my research shows also. only those two. I also remember seeing the documentary. I doubt if it will ever be known for sure. Kinda like the new mysterey of the Titanic turning the rudder in the wrong direction in the panic of the event.

I like zeppelins! :) unfortunatelly they are not used now.... they only have tiny ones for cameras in games... in basketball games for example....

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a2019524-a67b-4ef0-b4cc-bed793f96d0d.jpg?rnd=0.00866335664f0b968-a354-4d6a-b534-e6c017e6abe2.jpg?rnd=0.8744122

I hope these latest design proofs will be more appealing! I like them and should be good for the world. At 9 MM thick and 3" long it should come with helium!

These will be a set with pathtag included.

thanks,

MO Pirate

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In case I forgot to mention it Groundspeak did decline the use of the swastika on the trackable item. Therefore, I will go with the nice suggestion of the leatherman symbol in that section of the trackable coin. I too doubt many of these coins go into the wild but then again that is your choice. I have NOT decided yet to do a non trackable with a decal to replace the leatherman symbol or not. I will let you know on that later.

 

As far as the "track at geocaching.com" and the actual code, they are being moved to the top "spine" on the coin so when you see the coin fron either side you will see the actual Hindenburg name and the actual ship number on the sides. The bottom, of course, will hve the passenger area and engines on each side of the bottom.

 

So, speaking on the historical facts, How many survivors of the Hindenburg are still alive? I will let you do the research on that. I doubt if the kids on that fateful day knew anything about any symbol on the tail fins or cared about them then. And was the explosion ever deemed as intentional or an accident?

 

thanks,

MO Pirate

 

PS: FYI, this war was more than 50 years ago. and no mention of the vast number of "Native Americans" that disappeared from earth. But that can be a topic for another discussion as we all know this could go on and on.

 

I find it ironic that the Swastika drew such fervor and a rejection by GS, while one of the more sought after GC sets in the Civil War series of 10, most of which bear the rebel flag. I, for one would love one of the original design coins to go with my new Titanic coin. This GC is like any other, collect what you like, overlook the rest. As for legality, an owner could clearly state in the GC mission that it is not to travel to certain areas of the world if he/she so chooses. I appreciate your anniversary coins and would prefer the true replica. GS needs to quit trying to re-write history by refusing to acknowledge its existence. The coin was not to commemorate the old Nazi Germany, but rather to memorialize those who lost their lives aboard this "magnificent" airship.

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In case I forgot to mention it Groundspeak did decline the use of the swastika on the trackable item. Therefore, I will go with the nice suggestion of the leatherman symbol in that section of the trackable coin. I too doubt many of these coins go into the wild but then again that is your choice. I have NOT decided yet to do a non trackable with a decal to replace the leatherman symbol or not. I will let you know on that later.

 

As far as the "track at geocaching.com" and the actual code, they are being moved to the top "spine" on the coin so when you see the coin fron either side you will see the actual Hindenburg name and the actual ship number on the sides. The bottom, of course, will hve the passenger area and engines on each side of the bottom.

 

So, speaking on the historical facts, How many survivors of the Hindenburg are still alive? I will let you do the research on that. I doubt if the kids on that fateful day knew anything about any symbol on the tail fins or cared about them then. And was the explosion ever deemed as intentional or an accident?

 

thanks,

MO Pirate

 

PS: FYI, this war was more than 50 years ago. and no mention of the vast number of "Native Americans" that disappeared from earth. But that can be a topic for another discussion as we all know this could go on and on.

 

I find it ironic that the Swastika drew such fervor and a rejection by GS, while one of the more sought after GC sets in the Civil War series of 10, most of which bear the rebel flag. I, for one would love one of the original design coins to go with my new Titanic coin. This GC is like any other, collect what you like, overlook the rest. As for legality, an owner could clearly state in the GC mission that it is not to travel to certain areas of the world if he/she so chooses. I appreciate your anniversary coins and would prefer the true replica. GS needs to quit trying to re-write history by refusing to acknowledge its existence. The coin was not to commemorate the old Nazi Germany, but rather to memorialize those who lost their lives aboard this "magnificent" airship.

The fervor was created simply because the designer asked for people's opinions....and there are always going to be disagreements. If the coin had just been created and minted and nobody had known there was any controversy, even if GS had declined the original design, there wouldn't have been so much fervor. I totally agree that history is history, and some of that is really ugly. While I personally would not own anything that commemorates what the swastika stood for, my main objection to the coin (as originally suggested with the symbol) is that, for many members of our global geocaching community, owning one would be illegal. Why would we want other cachers to be in that position?

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I was stationed at Lakehurst, NJ, 1996 - 2000 when I retired. I taught inside Hangar 1, that was a cool experience, knowing the history of the Hindenburg, and learning other very cool things about the hanger and the base in general. The "Leatherman" symbol does look odd to me, but it is not mine to decide on the design. Personally I would have figured a way to obscure that section of the Zepplin.

 

On a side note, it is only a Zepplin if it came from that German company, the blimps at games and such are NOT Zepplins.....

 

I Do still like the pathtag though! I didn't know that type of design coould be done!!

 

IC1 L.R Hale USN(Ret)

Edited by IC1

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28a87b94-3be4-482d-b6a9-c6c91809161d.jpg?rnd=0.509071

I was stationed at Lakehurst, NJ, 1996 - 2000 when I retired. I taught inside Hangar 1, that was a cool experience, knowing the history of the Hindenburg, and learning other very cool things about the hanger and the base in general. The "Leatherman" symbol does look odd to me, but it is not mine to decide on the design. Personally I would have figured a way to obscure that section of the Zepplin.

 

On a side note, it is only a Zepplin if it came from that German company, the blimps at games and such are NOT Zepplins.....

 

I Do still like the pathtag though! I didn't know that type of design coould be done!!

 

IC1 L.R Hale USN(Ret)

I guess they have the coins ready and are waiting on the pathtags to join them so I can get them shipped to me all at once. So I hope it will be with 2 weeks that I have them in hand! Price looks like it will be $20 for the set or $18 for just the geocoin. Remember this geocoin is 3" long and 9MM thick so by far not an ordinary size! Pathtags are $5 with free shipping. Coin or sets will ship for $3.50 in US and $4.65 to Canada and $5.95 to Europe. I will be back on here when I have them in hand and available to ship. Thanks to all for your patience. Oh as the picture indicates- I have them in both antique silver and in satin silver. your choice same price.

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I would like to have one set of each color. How can I get it?

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Only slightly off-topic, but if you are at all interested in the evolution of the Lighter Than Air ships there's a very good book worth seeking out: Monsters of the Purple Twilight by Ernest Dudley

 

I've considered doing a cache themed on the subject -- too bad we don't have History Caches -- of the Zeppelins turned over to the Allies and taken over by the US Navy, USS Shenandoah crashed in Ohio and the USS Macon rests on the seabed off the California coast.

 

Amazing craft and with today's technology and weather prediction they would certainly be a fascinating way to travel.

 

Nice coins. I'll have think about getting one.

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I would like to have one set of each color. How can I get it?

 

I will let you know when they are here (should be within the next week) and then you can let me know and I will bill you on paypal for payment.

 

thanks,

Steve Allen aka MO Pirate

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Put me on the list for one of each, with the tag! These turned out nice!

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I would like to have a set in Antique Silver.

I'm from Friedrichshafen in Germany, the home of the Zeppelin!

So it's a must have!!!

 

Please contact me!

 

Greets

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I would like to have a set in Antique Silver.

I'm from Friedrichshafen in Germany, the home of the Zeppelin!

So it's a must have!!!

 

Please contact me!

 

Greets

 

The coins are in and look great! Nice details of the cabins and control basket and engines. I have them in Antique Silver and Satin Silver finishes. The pathtag comes with it as a set for $20. The coins are a huge 3" long and 9MM thick so they are quite impressive. email me please at packerbacker31@hotmail.com with your paypal email invoice address and quantity/finish desires. Thanks again, Steve Allen aka mo pirate

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Nice to see these being made. Well done.

 

The coins are in and look great! Nice details of the cabins and control basket and engines. I have them in Antique Silver and Satin Silver finishes. The pathtag comes with it as a set for $20. The coins are a huge 3" long and 9MM thick so they are quite impressive. email me please at packerbacker31@hotmail.com with your paypal email invoice address and quantity/finish desires. Thanks again, Steve Allen aka mo pirate

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Put me on the list for one of each, with the tag! These turned out nice!

 

The coins are in and look great! Nice details of the cabins and control basket and engines. I have them in Antique Silver and Satin Silver finishes. The pathtag comes with it as a set for $20. The coins are a huge 3" long and 9MM thick so they are quite impressive. email me please at packerbacker31@hotmail.com with your paypal email invoice address and quantity/finish desires. Thanks again, Steve Allen aka mo pirate

Share this post


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I would like to have one set of each color. How can I get it?

 

The coins are in and look great! Nice details of the cabins and control basket and engines. I have them in Antique Silver and Satin Silver finishes. The pathtag comes with it as a set for $20. The coins are a huge 3" long and 9MM thick so they are quite impressive. email me please at packerbacker31@hotmail.com with your paypal email invoice address and quantity/finish desires. Thanks again, Steve Allen aka mo pirate

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