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Owner wiped out all logs for geocoin


teamhaynes
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Also to add because someone will mention that moved logs were not deleted.

 

What Im saying is the game is evolving

A few years ago no cacher would have ever thought of deleting a discover log that HAD been discovered.

Now some cachers see it as fine. (right or wrong not the question)

What if in a year everyone thinks you can delete all logs

 

We have to look at the big picture as new players come in they will play their own way.

Just as everyone reading this has. So what's to stop them from doing it.....

This is a strawman argument, it does not make sense.

 

I'm not sure how it doesn't make sense.

I'm saying if gs will set some rules then it will cut down on arguments in the future

All of the rules we have come about because someone did something someone else didn't like

So why not stop it before it gets out of hand

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Also to add because someone will mention that moved logs were not deleted.

 

What Im saying is the game is evolving

A few years ago no cacher would have ever thought of deleting a discover log that HAD been discovered.

Now some cachers see it as fine. (right or wrong not the question)

What if in a year everyone thinks you can delete all logs

 

We have to look at the big picture as new players come in they will play their own way.

Just as everyone reading this has. So what's to stop them from doing it.....

This is a strawman argument, it does not make sense.

 

No, it makes perfect sense. A year or two ago you would not have seen any ebay auctions where the seller says: "activated, but has no logs". Now you do. Somehow people have gotten the perception that a coin with no logs is more "valuable" than a coin with logs. If this trend continues you will see coins stripped of every log when the owner decides to sell it.

 

I for one agree with what has been said previously in this thread. The coin owner may own the coin itself, but he does not own my logs, and unless they are mistakes or frauds, he should not be permitted to delete them.

 

I still can't fathom why someone would even care how many logs of any kind are on their coin. Do they regularly pull up their coins' pages and congratulate themselves on the "quality" or absence of logs?

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Also to add because someone will mention that moved logs were not deleted.

 

What Im saying is the game is evolving

A few years ago no cacher would have ever thought of deleting a discover log that HAD been discovered.

Now some cachers see it as fine. (right or wrong not the question)

What if in a year everyone thinks you can delete all logs

 

We have to look at the big picture as new players come in they will play their own way.

Just as everyone reading this has. So what's to stop them from doing it.....

This is a strawman argument, it does not make sense.

 

I'm not sure how it doesn't make sense.

I'm saying if gs will set some rules then it will cut down on arguments in the future

All of the rules we have come about because someone did something someone else didn't like

So why not stop it before it gets out of hand

 

Precisely!! It makes sense to me.

 

randomincoherencies - on one hand you say that it makes no sense (which, IMO, it makes perfect sense and sounds very logical), but on the other you don't want rules to clarify the situation. You can't have it both way - you either remain with confusion and differing views (and essentailly different ways of playing the gmae) OR have rules so that everyone plays the game the same game way.

Edited by keewee
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Also to add because someone will mention that moved logs were not deleted.

 

What Im saying is the game is evolving

A few years ago no cacher would have ever thought of deleting a discover log that HAD been discovered.

Now some cachers see it as fine. (right or wrong not the question)

What if in a year everyone thinks you can delete all logs

 

We have to look at the big picture as new players come in they will play their own way.

Just as everyone reading this has. So what's to stop them from doing it.....

This is a strawman argument, it does not make sense.

 

I'm not sure how it doesn't make sense.

I'm saying if gs will set some rules then it will cut down on arguments in the future

All of the rules we have come about because someone did something someone else didn't like

So why not stop it before it gets out of hand

 

Precisely!!

 

randomincoherencies - on one hand you say that it makes no sense (which, IMO, it makes perfect sense and sounds very logical), but on the other you don't want rules to clarify the situation. You can't have it both way - you either remain with confusion and differing views (and essentailly different ways of playing the gmae) OR have rules so that everyone plays the game the same game way.

What I mean is - this quote 'What if in a year everyone thinks you can delete all logs'

Why would anyone do this on a coin log. They send out the coin to follow it's travels, and the initial conversation regarding log deletions were in the case of an ownership transfer where only a few discover logs were removed. With the millions of coins currently in the system, traveling, being discovered. There doesn't appear to be this huge problem of log deletions. And I hate to have GS make more rules on a 'What if'

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What I mean is - this quote 'What if in a year everyone thinks you can delete all logs'

Why would anyone do this on a coin log. They send out the coin to follow it's travels, and the initial conversation regarding log deletions were in the case of an ownership transfer where only a few discover logs were removed. With the millions of coins currently in the system, traveling, being discovered. There doesn't appear to be this huge problem of log deletions. And I hate to have GS make more rules on a 'What if'

 

All rules get made on a "What if...".

 

The 6 pages (so far) of discussion indicate that a number of players would like clarification. I would prefer the logs to be locked after a time, but at the very least I'd like to see coin logs afforded the same protection as cache logs: Do not delete without cause.

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I have seen lots of geocoins at events I go to and in the caches I find. The geocoins I like I discover. I enjoy looking at where it has been and I have went back to look at my favorites and buy a few. I would not be happy if someone, for whatever reason, took that ability away from me. The archive option sounds like a very good compromise.

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Whether it should be Their Option to keep or remove these logs is the matter of discussion here and personally I'm hoping that GS will make a ruling one way or another based on the players opinions. Your opinion seems to be that they should. Mine is that they shouldn't. (Keep in mind that I also have a very strong feeling about the log itself...not JUST the icon.)

 

That being said, I'm not upset with anyone who is still playing by the rules. Currently the rules allow deleting. I want to see that changed to protect EVERYONE'S rights in this game.

Discovery on coins is a Privilege - not a right

Why would a new owner of a coin have the right to delete the log of a cacher who was given the Privilege to log the coin by the previous owner? Shouldn't that Privilege be honored by it's next owner? Shouldn't the next owner respect the (wishes of) the previous owner?

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And has been said often in here - It's a coin, not a kidney.

 

It's been a long time since I read this last. :lol:

 

Too bad more people in general never quite got this concept. :blink:

 

Yeah, apparently when they steal a kidney you wake up groggy in a bath tub full of ice... With a coin log you just get an email :rolleyes:

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And has been said often in here - It's a coin, not a kidney.

 

It's been a long time since I read this last. :lol:

 

Too bad more people in general never quite got this concept. :blink:

 

Yeah, apparently when they steal a kidney you wake up groggy in a bath tub full of ice... With a coin log you just get an email :rolleyes:

 

Tub of ice, bottle of rum, won't care about the kidney. B)

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This quote is pretty funny because I used your entire post #219 without deleting any of it. :laughing: :laughing:

 

I highly doubt that I or anyone else can give you what in your opinion is a "good argument" for allowing the current guidelines (not rules) to continue unchanged. No matter what is put forth you will find something wrong with it. You have your opinion and I have mine. I would like to continue to have the right to delete logs on the coins I own as I see fit. Whether I exercise that right or not is something different. I still want that right.

 

Maybe this is a more widespread problem than I think it is. My feeling is that the log deletions happen very rarely and the OP was venting because it happened to him. It also sounds like there are a very few cachers who do do it. I have moved probably close to 500 trackables and haven't had a log deleted. However, there has been one poster in this thread who has had several deleted all from one owner. If I had that happen to me I wouldn't bother with that owner's trackables either moving them or discovering them.

 

You're right, that first part came out all wrong. My apologies. You didn't cut any of the quote, but it does seem that you only paid mind to a portion of it. That's more how I should have said it.

 

Believe me LadyBee, I want you to have that freedom too. I do because I want that freedom as well. I hate new rules like I hate wet log sheets. But apparently, people can't handle the freedom responsibly. If COs were allowed to delete logs on caches for no apparent reason, I'd have stopped caching long ago. I'd lay a few bucks down that a lot of folks would have. The moving and discovering of coins is a big part of caching for me, and I'm not terribly fond of people deleting rightful discovered and moved logs (yep, I said moved logs, still waiting on randomincoherencies to get back to me on whether he wants the proof of "willy nilly" log deletions) just because they have the freedom to do so.

 

In the last couple of years, since I started caching and moving geocoins, I've had at least 10 discovery logs deleted on sold coins. I kept quiet, didn't want to rock the boat, figured I was just unlucky. But threads like these seem to be popping up from time to time, and in each, someone else with a similar story. As the selling of activated geocoins becomes more commonplace, the practice of deleting rightful moved/discovery logs does as well. It's not rampant, I'll agree with you there. But it's still not right.

 

How many more of my logs have to be deleted before you agree? How many of yours?

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Whether it should be Their Option to keep or remove these logs is the matter of discussion here and personally I'm hoping that GS will make a ruling one way or another based on the players opinions. Your opinion seems to be that they should. Mine is that they shouldn't. (Keep in mind that I also have a very strong feeling about the log itself...not JUST the icon.)

 

That being said, I'm not upset with anyone who is still playing by the rules. Currently the rules allow deleting. I want to see that changed to protect EVERYONE'S rights in this game.

Discovery on coins is a Privilege - not a right

Why would a new owner of a coin have the right to delete the log of a cacher who was given the Privilege to log the coin by the previous owner? Shouldn't that Privilege be honored by it's next owner? Shouldn't the next owner respect the (wishes of) the previous owner?

 

The previous owner's wishes can be taken into account but why should they HAVE to be followed? Unless there is a written agreement such as the terms of use that you previously mentioned, then those wishes are only a suggestion. It is the new owner's property to do with as they see fit. If the previous owner of a house gave a key to someone does the new owner have the right to change the locks to revoke the privilege given by the previous owner? I don't agree necessarily with overall log deletion but I do see why someone might want to do it and I also think they should have the right to do so.

 

This quote is pretty funny because I used your entire post #219 without deleting any of it. :laughing: :laughing:

 

I highly doubt that I or anyone else can give you what in your opinion is a "good argument" for allowing the current guidelines (not rules) to continue unchanged. No matter what is put forth you will find something wrong with it. You have your opinion and I have mine. I would like to continue to have the right to delete logs on the coins I own as I see fit. Whether I exercise that right or not is something different. I still want that right.

 

Maybe this is a more widespread problem than I think it is. My feeling is that the log deletions happen very rarely and the OP was venting because it happened to him. It also sounds like there are a very few cachers who do do it. I have moved probably close to 500 trackables and haven't had a log deleted. However, there has been one poster in this thread who has had several deleted all from one owner. If I had that happen to me I wouldn't bother with that owner's trackables either moving them or discovering them.

 

You're right, that first part came out all wrong. My apologies. You didn't cut any of the quote, but it does seem that you only paid mind to a portion of it. That's more how I should have said it.

 

Believe me LadyBee, I want you to have that freedom too. I do because I want that freedom as well. I hate new rules like I hate wet log sheets. But apparently, people can't handle the freedom responsibly. If COs were allowed to delete logs on caches for no apparent reason, I'd have stopped caching long ago. I'd lay a few bucks down that a lot of folks would have. The moving and discovering of coins is a big part of caching for me, and I'm not terribly fond of people deleting rightful discovered and moved logs (yep, I said moved logs, still waiting on randomincoherencies to get back to me on whether he wants the proof of "willy nilly" log deletions) just because they have the freedom to do so.

 

In the last couple of years, since I started caching and moving geocoins, I've had at least 10 discovery logs deleted on sold coins. I kept quiet, didn't want to rock the boat, figured I was just unlucky. But threads like these seem to be popping up from time to time, and in each, someone else with a similar story. As the selling of activated geocoins becomes more commonplace, the practice of deleting rightful moved/discovery logs does as well. It's not rampant, I'll agree with you there. But it's still not right.

 

How many more of my logs have to be deleted before you agree? How many of yours?

 

I don't like wet logs either but I now have a space pen to take care of that problem when I don't have a replacement log with me ;)

 

Earlier someone (and I don't remember who) stated he removed only discovered logs at events. To me they are all the same whether discovered at an event or in a cache or a move log, none are more or less important than the others.

 

With the two of us together we have about a 1% deletion rate (yours of 10 or so logs and none of mine) I'd say that overall that isn't too bad. If I got up in the am and all of my trackable logs had been deleted would I get upset? Maybe. Especially with the emails telling me clogging my inbox. :P But I almost never look at that part of my profile. I'm not an icon ho nor do I log travelers to get another number. Are all/most of your deletions from one cacher? I do understand why others get upset. I just believe that the owner has the right to so for their property. As someone else has stated the game/sport is evolving and I see more and more of the blank log or just a couple of letters. Those logs bother me a lot more on my caches and trackables than a log deletion of something I have logged.

 

What is it you want me to agree to though? I have already said that I think the proposal put forth by thebruce0 is intriguing.

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I posted in this thread previously, but perhaps some users did not see the post. A geocoin is owned by the owner, and that owner can set the mission as they see fit, and can manage the coin's page as they choose. If a coin changes hands, then the new owner makes these types of decisions.

 

This thread has derailed and now there are actions happening outside the forums which are affecting cachers who have posted in these forums.

 

A reminder that all behavior in these forums and on Geocaching.com is answerable to the conditions established in the Terms of Use. All content in these forums is overseen by the forum guidelines.

 

Any additional inappropriate content in this thread will mean that it is closed. We would like to keep the discussion open, and most users are honoring our ToU and the guidelines, so please be very mindful of what is posted here.

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I posted in this thread previously, but perhaps some users did not see the post. A geocoin is owned by the owner, and that owner can set the mission as they see fit, and can manage the coin's page as they choose. If a coin changes hands, then the new owner makes these types of decisions.

 

This thread has derailed and now there are actions happening outside the forums which are affecting cachers who have posted in these forums.

 

A reminder that all behavior in these forums and on Geocaching.com is answerable to the conditions established in the Terms of Use. All content in these forums is overseen by the forum guidelines.

 

Any additional inappropriate content in this thread will mean that it is closed. We would like to keep the discussion open, and most users are honoring our ToU and the guidelines, so please be very mindful of what is posted here.

So are you saying that having this discussion is useless, because GS is not willing to see that there may be an issue worth looking into here? We understand that the owner of a coin controls the coins mission and the coin page, but what is up for discussion is whether or not they should have the ability to delete accurate and honest logs of discovery "just because", whether they are the first owner of the coin or the 10th. I guess since we also control our cache pages, we should just start to delete true and honest logs "just because". We have had coin logs deleted as well, but never said anything about it.....but after reading this, it looks like it is becoming more commonplace than we originally thought.

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I posted in this thread previously, but perhaps some users did not see the post. A geocoin is owned by the owner, and that owner can set the mission as they see fit, and can manage the coin's page as they choose. If a coin changes hands, then the new owner makes these types of decisions.

 

This thread has derailed and now there are actions happening outside the forums which are affecting cachers who have posted in these forums.

 

A reminder that all behavior in these forums and on Geocaching.com is answerable to the conditions established in the Terms of Use. All content in these forums is overseen by the forum guidelines.

 

Any additional inappropriate content in this thread will mean that it is closed. We would like to keep the discussion open, and most users are honoring our ToU and the guidelines, so please be very mindful of what is posted here.

So are you saying that having this discussion is useless, because GS is not willing to see that there may be an issue worth looking into here? We understand that the owner of a coin controls the coins mission and the coin page, but what is up for discussion is whether or not they should have the ability to delete accurate and honest logs of discovery "just because", whether they are the first owner of the coin or the 10th. I guess since we also control our cache pages, we should just start to delete true and honest logs "just because". We have had coin logs deleted as well, but never said anything about it.....but after reading this, it looks like it is becoming more commonplace than we originally thought.

 

The current owner can delete previous logs, yes. It is not behavior that we encourage, but it is the coin owner's property. It is their decision. Groundspeak will not be forcing coin owners to retain previous logs if that is the coin owners choice.

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The current owner can delete previous logs, yes. It is not behavior that we encourage, but it is the coin owner's property. It is their decision. Groundspeak will not be forcing coin owners to retain previous logs if that is the coin owners choice.

 

So much for a geocoin being like a cache. This means a perfectly valid log on a coin can be deleted by the coin owner no questions asked. But when I as the owner of a mystery cache want to delete the log of someone that state in their log that they did not bother to solve the puzzle (and therefore got the final coords from someone else, often circulating lists of end coordinates) I can do nothing about it and Groundspeak WILL reinstate the log if I delete it. This really saddens me.

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The current owner can delete previous logs, yes. It is not behavior that we encourage, but it is the coin owner's property. It is their decision. Groundspeak will not be forcing coin owners to retain previous logs if that is the coin owners choice.

 

Are we to believe then that Groundspeak will not be making any changes or considerations to allow legitimate and important personal logs on coins and trackables to be protected as part of their own geocaching history, even if they can be 'deleted' from the item's listing page itself?

Your response is very Final and not encouraging towards discussing potential compromise or solutions that can appeal to more people.

 

What, exactly, are you saying?

 

"It is not behavior that we encourage" - does that mean people can dispute deleted logs? If so, who takes precedence in the resolution - the user who posted the log to the item, or the owner (new or old) who owns the item? By your next sentence, you imply you'd do nothing, because the owner takes precedence. So... what's the point of "it is not behavior that we encourage" if nothing can be done about it, and no mechanism exists to provide a compromise for both parties?

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I posted in this thread previously, but perhaps some users did not see the post. A geocoin is owned by the owner, and that owner can set the mission as they see fit, and can manage the coin's page as they choose. If a coin changes hands, then the new owner makes these types of decisions.

 

This thread has derailed and now there are actions happening outside the forums which are affecting cachers who have posted in these forums.

 

A reminder that all behavior in these forums and on Geocaching.com is answerable to the conditions established in the Terms of Use. All content in these forums is overseen by the forum guidelines.

 

Any additional inappropriate content in this thread will mean that it is closed. We would like to keep the discussion open, and most users are honoring our ToU and the guidelines, so please be very mindful of what is posted here.

So are you saying that having this discussion is useless, because GS is not willing to see that there may be an issue worth looking into here? We understand that the owner of a coin controls the coins mission and the coin page, but what is up for discussion is whether or not they should have the ability to delete accurate and honest logs of discovery "just because", whether they are the first owner of the coin or the 10th. I guess since we also control our cache pages, we should just start to delete true and honest logs "just because". We have had coin logs deleted as well, but never said anything about it.....but after reading this, it looks like it is becoming more commonplace than we originally thought.

 

The current owner can delete previous logs, yes. It is not behavior that we encourage, but it is the coin owner's property. It is their decision. Groundspeak will not be forcing coin owners to retain previous logs if that is the coin owners choice.

 

Hi Sandy,

 

Can you please clarify, as by what you have said above it sounds like Groundspeak have decided that the Status Quo is to remain and that the concerns being aired here are going to be ignored. I sincerely hope I am wrong. (That, by your wording, Groundspeak are not going to look at the guidelines/rulea around this)

 

ETA - as thebruce0 commented, your statement sounds like a final word on the matter. If this was not the intention of your post, can I suggest you very quickly edit it before it alone causes this thread to spiral out of control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by keewee
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It really, really saddens me, because on one hand we're told Groundspeak take our views seriously and have the feedback forum (and previously the UserVoice system) to get feedback and suggestions (and we were told that this thread, even though no in the feedback section, was being watch by Groundspeak personal for that purpose), and now on the other hand we are quickly being told that there won't be any consideration of a change to the rules or how geocoin logs work! Boo Groundspeak, Boo!

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It really, really saddens me, because on one hand we're told Groundspeak take our views seriously and have the feedback forum (and previously the UserVoice system) to get feedback and suggestions (and we were told that this thread, even though no in the feedback section, was being watch by Groundspeak personal for that purpose), and now on the other hand we are quickly being told that there won't be any consideration of a change to the rules or how geocoin logs work! Boo Groundspeak, Boo!

Same sentiment here........why have geocoins and trackables be a part of the game then since it looks like we are being told that the logs are essentially meaningless?

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I posted in this thread previously, but perhaps some users did not see the post. A geocoin is owned by the owner, and that owner can set the mission as they see fit, and can manage the coin's page as they choose. If a coin changes hands, then the new owner makes these types of decisions.

 

This thread has derailed and now there are actions happening outside the forums which are affecting cachers who have posted in these forums.

 

A reminder that all behavior in these forums and on Geocaching.com is answerable to the conditions established in the Terms of Use. All content in these forums is overseen by the forum guidelines.

 

Any additional inappropriate content in this thread will mean that it is closed. We would like to keep the discussion open, and most users are honoring our ToU and the guidelines, so please be very mindful of what is posted here.

So are you saying that having this discussion is useless, because GS is not willing to see that there may be an issue worth looking into here? We understand that the owner of a coin controls the coins mission and the coin page, but what is up for discussion is whether or not they should have the ability to delete accurate and honest logs of discovery "just because", whether they are the first owner of the coin or the 10th. I guess since we also control our cache pages, we should just start to delete true and honest logs "just because". We have had coin logs deleted as well, but never said anything about it.....but after reading this, it looks like it is becoming more commonplace than we originally thought.

 

The current owner can delete previous logs, yes. It is not behavior that we encourage, but it is the coin owner's property. It is their decision. Groundspeak will not be forcing coin owners to retain previous logs if that is the coin owners choice.

 

Hi Sandy,

 

Can you please clarify, as by what you have said above it sounds like Groundspeak have decided that the Status Quo is to remain and that the concerns being aired here are going to be ignored. I sincerely hope I am wrong. (That, by your wording, Groundspeak are not going to look at the guidelines/rulea around this)

 

ETA - as thebruce0 commented, your statement sounds like a final word on the matter. If this was not the intention of your post, can I suggest you very quickly edit it before it alone causes this thread to spiral out of control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't what you want clarified, the statement 'Groundspeak will not be forcing coin owners to retain previous logs if that is the coin owners choice' seems pretty clear to me. And I for one agree with it.

Link to comment

I posted in this thread previously, but perhaps some users did not see the post. A geocoin is owned by the owner, and that owner can set the mission as they see fit, and can manage the coin's page as they choose. If a coin changes hands, then the new owner makes these types of decisions.

 

This thread has derailed and now there are actions happening outside the forums which are affecting cachers who have posted in these forums.

 

A reminder that all behavior in these forums and on Geocaching.com is answerable to the conditions established in the Terms of Use. All content in these forums is overseen by the forum guidelines.

 

Any additional inappropriate content in this thread will mean that it is closed. We would like to keep the discussion open, and most users are honoring our ToU and the guidelines, so please be very mindful of what is posted here.

So are you saying that having this discussion is useless, because GS is not willing to see that there may be an issue worth looking into here? We understand that the owner of a coin controls the coins mission and the coin page, but what is up for discussion is whether or not they should have the ability to delete accurate and honest logs of discovery "just because", whether they are the first owner of the coin or the 10th. I guess since we also control our cache pages, we should just start to delete true and honest logs "just because". We have had coin logs deleted as well, but never said anything about it.....but after reading this, it looks like it is becoming more commonplace than we originally thought.

 

The current owner can delete previous logs, yes. It is not behavior that we encourage, but it is the coin owner's property. It is their decision. Groundspeak will not be forcing coin owners to retain previous logs if that is the coin owners choice.

 

Hi Sandy,

 

Can you please clarify, as by what you have said above it sounds like Groundspeak have decided that the Status Quo is to remain and that the concerns being aired here are going to be ignored. I sincerely hope I am wrong. (That, by your wording, Groundspeak are not going to look at the guidelines/rulea around this)

 

ETA - as thebruce0 commented, your statement sounds like a final word on the matter. If this was not the intention of your post, can I suggest you very quickly edit it before it alone causes this thread to spiral out of control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't what you want clarified, the statement 'Groundspeak will not be forcing coin owners to retain previous logs if that is the coin owners choice' seems pretty clear to me. And I for one agree with it.

It needs to be clarified because if that is the stance GS is going to take on coins and trackables, then it should be the same on caches. All items fall under the umbrella of the GEOCACHING game. GS should not have different sets of guidelines for items which can be logged through their website, be it a cache, TB or coin. We own our caches too and GS does not express the same "hands off" approach to those logs. So they are contradicting themselves. Sandy also needs to address her response which indicates that GS is basically going to ignore our inquiries, suggestions and questions regarding the matter at hand.

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I posted in this thread previously, but perhaps some users did not see the post. A geocoin is owned by the owner, and that owner can set the mission as they see fit, and can manage the coin's page as they choose. If a coin changes hands, then the new owner makes these types of decisions.

 

This thread has derailed and now there are actions happening outside the forums which are affecting cachers who have posted in these forums.

 

A reminder that all behavior in these forums and on Geocaching.com is answerable to the conditions established in the Terms of Use. All content in these forums is overseen by the forum guidelines.

 

Any additional inappropriate content in this thread will mean that it is closed. We would like to keep the discussion open, and most users are honoring our ToU and the guidelines, so please be very mindful of what is posted here.

So are you saying that having this discussion is useless, because GS is not willing to see that there may be an issue worth looking into here? We understand that the owner of a coin controls the coins mission and the coin page, but what is up for discussion is whether or not they should have the ability to delete accurate and honest logs of discovery "just because", whether they are the first owner of the coin or the 10th. I guess since we also control our cache pages, we should just start to delete true and honest logs "just because". We have had coin logs deleted as well, but never said anything about it.....but after reading this, it looks like it is becoming more commonplace than we originally thought.

 

The current owner can delete previous logs, yes. It is not behavior that we encourage, but it is the coin owner's property. It is their decision. Groundspeak will not be forcing coin owners to retain previous logs if that is the coin owners choice.

 

Hi Sandy,

 

Can you please clarify, as by what you have said above it sounds like Groundspeak have decided that the Status Quo is to remain and that the concerns being aired here are going to be ignored. I sincerely hope I am wrong. (That, by your wording, Groundspeak are not going to look at the guidelines/rulea around this)

 

ETA - as thebruce0 commented, your statement sounds like a final word on the matter. If this was not the intention of your post, can I suggest you very quickly edit it before it alone causes this thread to spiral out of control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't what you want clarified, the statement 'Groundspeak will not be forcing coin owners to retain previous logs if that is the coin owners choice' seems pretty clear to me. And I for one agree with it.

It needs to be clarified because if that is the stance GS is going to take on coins and trackables, then it should be the same on caches. All items fall under the umbrella of the GEOCACHING game. GS should not have different sets of guidelines for items which can be logged through their website, be it a cache, TB or coin. We own our caches too and GS does not express the same "hands off" approach to those logs. So they are contradicting themselves. Sandy also needs to address her response which indicates that GS is basically going to ignore our inquiries, suggestions and questions regarding the matter at hand.

With a Geocache you have to go to the site and write on a log in the cache. Then submit your log on-line. There is no such thing with a coin. They are NOT the same.... They are not ignoring your inquiries, it sounds to me that they made a decision..

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I posted in this thread previously, but perhaps some users did not see the post. A geocoin is owned by the owner, and that owner can set the mission as they see fit, and can manage the coin's page as they choose. If a coin changes hands, then the new owner makes these types of decisions.

 

This thread has derailed and now there are actions happening outside the forums which are affecting cachers who have posted in these forums.

 

A reminder that all behavior in these forums and on Geocaching.com is answerable to the conditions established in the Terms of Use. All content in these forums is overseen by the forum guidelines.

 

Any additional inappropriate content in this thread will mean that it is closed. We would like to keep the discussion open, and most users are honoring our ToU and the guidelines, so please be very mindful of what is posted here.

So are you saying that having this discussion is useless, because GS is not willing to see that there may be an issue worth looking into here? We understand that the owner of a coin controls the coins mission and the coin page, but what is up for discussion is whether or not they should have the ability to delete accurate and honest logs of discovery "just because", whether they are the first owner of the coin or the 10th. I guess since we also control our cache pages, we should just start to delete true and honest logs "just because". We have had coin logs deleted as well, but never said anything about it.....but after reading this, it looks like it is becoming more commonplace than we originally thought.

 

The current owner can delete previous logs, yes. It is not behavior that we encourage, but it is the coin owner's property. It is their decision. Groundspeak will not be forcing coin owners to retain previous logs if that is the coin owners choice.

 

Hi Sandy,

 

Can you please clarify, as by what you have said above it sounds like Groundspeak have decided that the Status Quo is to remain and that the concerns being aired here are going to be ignored. I sincerely hope I am wrong. (That, by your wording, Groundspeak are not going to look at the guidelines/rulea around this)

 

ETA - as thebruce0 commented, your statement sounds like a final word on the matter. If this was not the intention of your post, can I suggest you very quickly edit it before it alone causes this thread to spiral out of control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't what you want clarified, the statement 'Groundspeak will not be forcing coin owners to retain previous logs if that is the coin owners choice' seems pretty clear to me. And I for one agree with it.

It needs to be clarified because if that is the stance GS is going to take on coins and trackables, then it should be the same on caches. All items fall under the umbrella of the GEOCACHING game. GS should not have different sets of guidelines for items which can be logged through their website, be it a cache, TB or coin. We own our caches too and GS does not express the same "hands off" approach to those logs. So they are contradicting themselves. Sandy also needs to address her response which indicates that GS is basically going to ignore our inquiries, suggestions and questions regarding the matter at hand.

With a Geocache you have to go to the site and write on a log in the cache. Then submit your log on-line. There is no such thing with a coin. They are NOT the same.... They are not ignoring your inquiries, it sounds to me that they made a decision..

They are the same, with a coin or trackable you go to a cache, get the tracking #, go online and write a log on the Groundspeak website. Sandy did not express that this was a final decision and that NO opinions regarding the matter would be taken into consideration, this is what I am questioning.

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With a Geocache you have to go to the site and write on a log in the cache. Then submit your log on-line. There is no such thing with a coin. They are NOT the same.... They are not ignoring your inquiries, it sounds to me that they made a decision..

They are the same, with a coin or trackable you go to a cache, get the tracking #, go online and write a log on the Groundspeak website. Sandy did not express that this was a final decision and that NO opinions regarding the matter would be taken into consideration, this is what I am questioning.

Well apparently They ARE NOT THE SAME, Geocoins are personal property - and the rules regarding geocaches do not apply to trackables. Just cause this decision did not go your way, does not mean it isn't final. Seems final to me.

Link to comment

I posted in this thread previously, but perhaps some users did not see the post. A geocoin is owned by the owner, and that owner can set the mission as they see fit, and can manage the coin's page as they choose. If a coin changes hands, then the new owner makes these types of decisions.

 

This thread has derailed and now there are actions happening outside the forums which are affecting cachers who have posted in these forums.

 

A reminder that all behavior in these forums and on Geocaching.com is answerable to the conditions established in the Terms of Use. All content in these forums is overseen by the forum guidelines.

 

Any additional inappropriate content in this thread will mean that it is closed. We would like to keep the discussion open, and most users are honoring our ToU and the guidelines, so please be very mindful of what is posted here.

So are you saying that having this discussion is useless, because GS is not willing to see that there may be an issue worth looking into here? We understand that the owner of a coin controls the coins mission and the coin page, but what is up for discussion is whether or not they should have the ability to delete accurate and honest logs of discovery "just because", whether they are the first owner of the coin or the 10th. I guess since we also control our cache pages, we should just start to delete true and honest logs "just because". We have had coin logs deleted as well, but never said anything about it.....but after reading this, it looks like it is becoming more commonplace than we originally thought.

 

The current owner can delete previous logs, yes. It is not behavior that we encourage, but it is the coin owner's property. It is their decision. Groundspeak will not be forcing coin owners to retain previous logs if that is the coin owners choice.

 

Hi Sandy,

 

Can you please clarify, as by what you have said above it sounds like Groundspeak have decided that the Status Quo is to remain and that the concerns being aired here are going to be ignored. I sincerely hope I am wrong. (That, by your wording, Groundspeak are not going to look at the guidelines/rulea around this)

 

ETA - as thebruce0 commented, your statement sounds like a final word on the matter. If this was not the intention of your post, can I suggest you very quickly edit it before it alone causes this thread to spiral out of control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't what you want clarified, the statement 'Groundspeak will not be forcing coin owners to retain previous logs if that is the coin owners choice' seems pretty clear to me. And I for one agree with it.

It needs to be clarified because if that is the stance GS is going to take on coins and trackables, then it should be the same on caches. All items fall under the umbrella of the GEOCACHING game. GS should not have different sets of guidelines for items which can be logged through their website, be it a cache, TB or coin. We own our caches too and GS does not express the same "hands off" approach to those logs. So they are contradicting themselves. Sandy also needs to address her response which indicates that GS is basically going to ignore our inquiries, suggestions and questions regarding the matter at hand.

With a Geocache you have to go to the site and write on a log in the cache. Then submit your log on-line. There is no such thing with a coin. They are NOT the same.... They are not ignoring your inquiries, it sounds to me that they made a decision..

 

[NOTE - this is my opionion only, I don't know this as fact but am basing it on what I have seen in here other times when Groundspeak make a ruling, and this from Sandy is nothing like any of those other times]

 

No - it sounds to me like someone at Groundspeak has made a comment without thinking of the implications of the comment they have made. It sounds like a comment made out of frustration, or annoyance at what has been happening outside of the forums (what ever it was). I could be wrong.

 

If it was offical Groundspeak decision it would have worded and phrased very, very different to how Sandy worded it.

 

Well apparently They ARE NOT THE SAME, Geocoins are personal property - and the rules regarding geocaches do not apply to trackables. Just cause this decision did not go your way, does not mean it isn't final. Seems final to me.

 

I think you will find that the final decision has not been made - see my comments above.

Link to comment

I posted in this thread previously, but perhaps some users did not see the post. A geocoin is owned by the owner, and that owner can set the mission as they see fit, and can manage the coin's page as they choose. If a coin changes hands, then the new owner makes these types of decisions.

 

This thread has derailed and now there are actions happening outside the forums which are affecting cachers who have posted in these forums.

 

A reminder that all behavior in these forums and on Geocaching.com is answerable to the conditions established in the Terms of Use. All content in these forums is overseen by the forum guidelines.

 

Any additional inappropriate content in this thread will mean that it is closed. We would like to keep the discussion open, and most users are honoring our ToU and the guidelines, so please be very mindful of what is posted here.

So are you saying that having this discussion is useless, because GS is not willing to see that there may be an issue worth looking into here? We understand that the owner of a coin controls the coins mission and the coin page, but what is up for discussion is whether or not they should have the ability to delete accurate and honest logs of discovery "just because", whether they are the first owner of the coin or the 10th. I guess since we also control our cache pages, we should just start to delete true and honest logs "just because". We have had coin logs deleted as well, but never said anything about it.....but after reading this, it looks like it is becoming more commonplace than we originally thought.

 

The current owner can delete previous logs, yes. It is not behavior that we encourage, but it is the coin owner's property. It is their decision. Groundspeak will not be forcing coin owners to retain previous logs if that is the coin owners choice.

 

Hi Sandy,

 

Can you please clarify, as by what you have said above it sounds like Groundspeak have decided that the Status Quo is to remain and that the concerns being aired here are going to be ignored. I sincerely hope I am wrong. (That, by your wording, Groundspeak are not going to look at the guidelines/rulea around this)

 

ETA - as thebruce0 commented, your statement sounds like a final word on the matter. If this was not the intention of your post, can I suggest you very quickly edit it before it alone causes this thread to spiral out of control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't what you want clarified, the statement 'Groundspeak will not be forcing coin owners to retain previous logs if that is the coin owners choice' seems pretty clear to me. And I for one agree with it.

It needs to be clarified because if that is the stance GS is going to take on coins and trackables, then it should be the same on caches. All items fall under the umbrella of the GEOCACHING game. GS should not have different sets of guidelines for items which can be logged through their website, be it a cache, TB or coin. We own our caches too and GS does not express the same "hands off" approach to those logs. So they are contradicting themselves. Sandy also needs to address her response which indicates that GS is basically going to ignore our inquiries, suggestions and questions regarding the matter at hand.

With a Geocache you have to go to the site and write on a log in the cache. Then submit your log on-line. There is no such thing with a coin. They are NOT the same.... They are not ignoring your inquiries, it sounds to me that they made a decision..

 

[NOTE - this is my opionion only, I don't know this as fact but am basing it on what I have seen in here other times when Groundspeak make a ruling, and this from Sandy is nothing like any of those other times]

 

No - it sounds to me like someone at Groundspeak has made a comment without thinking of the implications of the comment they have made. It sounds like a comment made out of frustration, or annoyance at what has been happening outside of the forums (what ever it was). I could be wrong.

 

If it was offical Groundspeak decision it would have worded and phrased very, very different to how Sandy worded it.

 

Well apparently They ARE NOT THE SAME, Geocoins are personal property - and the rules regarding geocaches do not apply to trackables. Just cause this decision did not go your way, does not mean it isn't final. Seems final to me.

 

I think you will find that the final decision has not been made - see my comments above.

Go Ahead, believe what you want, but to me I believe it's been decided. No Change in the rules. Yay!

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I have been informed that some users have not understood our standpoint. Groundspeak will not be changing our view on this matter, despite our understanding that many people in this thread disagree. We do understand that some cachers will be highly disappointed to have a log deleted, but we will not force a coin owner who has purchased a coin from another player to honor the wishes of the former owner. As I said before, we do not encourage log deletion, but leave the decision to the coin owner.

 

We will be closing this thread as the topic has been well-debated, and the question answered by Groundspeak.

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