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Owner wiped out all logs for geocoin


teamhaynes
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I may be wrong but it seems to me that the one main issue that keeps coming up is that if the new owner of the coin wipes the history clean it erases the icon and personal log from peoples profile page. What if we suggest to GS that once a log has been made and the icon added to a personal profile page then it is locked on that page regardless of the status of the coins page. So then the list of found/discovered coin icons are seperate from what goes on with the coins page itself. Adding to that you could always have it so when a coin owner cleans the history of a coin then there could be an archived coin history page that accessable by those that have logged it and is not connected to the coin page at all and does not continue to add more to it after the wipe date.

I have not read all the pages of this tread, but here are my thoughts:

 

I don't like the idea of separating the icon and log from the coin page - I have several times deleted logs on my coins where the discovery of my coin has been done on an event somewhere in the world and I know I have the coin in a binder at home. I don't think the icon should remain on the cacher's profile then... (I always send a mail to the cacher explaining why I have deleted the log)

 

I like the idea of a "second tab" with old logs when the coin changes owner.

 

And for the record - I have not deleted and logs off any coins I have adopted.

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I may be wrong but it seems to me that the one main issue that keeps coming up is that if the new owner of the coin wipes the history clean it erases the icon and personal log from peoples profile page. What if we suggest to GS that once a log has been made and the icon added to a personal profile page then it is locked on that page regardless of the status of the coins page. So then the list of found/discovered coin icons are seperate from what goes on with the coins page itself. Adding to that you could always have it so when a coin owner cleans the history of a coin then there could be an archived coin history page that accessable by those that have logged it and is not connected to the coin page at all and does not continue to add more to it after the wipe date.

I have not read all the pages of this tread, but here are my thoughts:

 

I don't like the idea of separating the icon and log from the coin page - I have several times deleted logs on my coins where the discovery of my coin has been done on an event somewhere in the world and I know I have the coin in a binder at home. I don't think the icon should remain on the cacher's profile then... (I always send a mail to the cacher explaining why I have deleted the log)

 

I like the idea of a "second tab" with old logs when the coin changes owner.

 

And for the record - I have not deleted and logs off any coins I have adopted.

 

I agree you should be able to delete virtual logs.

Were trying to stop the deletion of legit logs that were deleted

For no reason except for the owner of the coin doesn't want to

See the logs on his/her coin page

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Wow... I guess I was always aware that it could happen, but I thought it would need a better reason than because someone simply decides to start over. Be that as it may...

 

Unless I'm misunderstanding the whole concept of caches and geocoins I thought the point in logging anything was to have a permanent record in MY PROFILE of what I've done while caching. I don't understand how someone wiping the slate clean on their coin should have any affect on MY DISCOVERY. For that matter I don't understand why someone can remove MY FIND from a cache either. It has no bearing on anyone but me what I've done. It occurs to me that the problem is in the system itself. My actions should be recorded to my profile, not to the items I run into while caching which appears to be how it's working currently. Why should anyone EVER lose a record on their profile of what they've done while caching? If this isn't resolved then it really begs the question of why bother ever logging any find or cache? If my log is only good until someone else decides to remove it then why bother?

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Wow... I guess I was always aware that it could happen, but I thought it would need a better reason than because someone simply decides to start over. Be that as it may...

 

Unless I'm misunderstanding the whole concept of caches and geocoins I thought the point in logging anything was to have a permanent record in MY PROFILE of what I've done while caching. I don't understand how someone wiping the slate clean on their coin should have any affect on MY DISCOVERY. For that matter I don't understand why someone can remove MY FIND from a cache either. It has no bearing on anyone but me what I've done. It occurs to me that the problem is in the system itself. My actions should be recorded to my profile, not to the items I run into while caching which appears to be how it's working currently. Why should anyone EVER lose a record on their profile of what they've done while caching? If this isn't resolved then it really begs the question of why bother ever logging any find or cache? If my log is only good until someone else decides to remove it then why bother?

Understand what you mean by this.

 

BUT... consider the fact that if something is changed, such as deletions, in essence (previous) action or device never existed. Long story made short, your action as a history of the device (be it a cache, TB or geocoin) is eradicated.

 

That is why caches are archived and not simply erased.

 

There are many terms that could be used to describe the actions of somebody who deletes logs, etc. en mass. For the most part, none of those terms would reflect favorably on the person who did that. Some just don't understand or "get it" -- you have to live with that fact.

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Wow... I guess I was always aware that it could happen, but I thought it would need a better reason than because someone simply decides to start over. Be that as it may...

 

Unless I'm misunderstanding the whole concept of caches and geocoins I thought the point in logging anything was to have a permanent record in MY PROFILE of what I've done while caching. I don't understand how someone wiping the slate clean on their coin should have any affect on MY DISCOVERY. For that matter I don't understand why someone can remove MY FIND from a cache either. It has no bearing on anyone but me what I've done. It occurs to me that the problem is in the system itself. My actions should be recorded to my profile, not to the items I run into while caching which appears to be how it's working currently. Why should anyone EVER lose a record on their profile of what they've done while caching? If this isn't resolved then it really begs the question of why bother ever logging any find or cache? If my log is only good until someone else decides to remove it then why bother?

Understand what you mean by this.

 

BUT... consider the fact that if something is changed, such as deletions, in essence (previous) action or device never existed. Long story made short, your action as a history of the device (be it a cache, TB or geocoin) is eradicated.

 

That is why caches are archived and not simply erased.

 

There are many terms that could be used to describe the actions of somebody who deletes logs, etc. en mass. For the most part, none of those terms would reflect favorably on the person who did that. Some just don't understand or "get it" -- you have to live with that fact.

 

Ummm... no? Just because a new action has occured, it doesn't mean I haven't taken part in some action in the past. I have had great memories including stories, photos, etc. all wrapped up in a log on a geocoin that I carried on a mission more than 2,000 miles. Just because a few years down the road someone sells that coin doesn't invalidate that I have a personal investment in the time and energy taken to record my experience. I recorded the experience for me, not just the coin owner. The log belongs to me as much as it belongs to the original owner (be it cache or coin).

 

Which brings me back to the original point. The logs are supposed to be personal recordings of your personal involvement in the world of geocaching. Giving anyone else the ability to eradicate those logs (for any reason) makes the whole point of creating the logs moot. It wasted effort if you can't guarantee they'll exist twelve months from now. ;)

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If a cache is adopted, it's very much a Bad Thing if the new owner decides to wipe out all the previous find logs. If a cache is archived, the logs remain for previous cachers (who can still delete them if they want). If a find log is deemed bogus by logging rules for the cache type, it can be deleted - by the geocacher, by the CO, or by a reviewer.

 

For a trackable, if it's adopted out, it shouldn't be allowed to be wiped clean, permanently, at the loss of geocachers' personal logs on that item. The new owner should have the ability to present the item's listing as they see fit, but they should not be able to delete logs. Archive, perhaps, so they remain in the geocacher's profile, and hide from public display at most. Deleting logs en masse is a Bad Thing, just like it is for a cache listing. Deleting logs for legitimate reasons (such as virtual discoveries, if the owner sees it an invalid discovery) then fine - just like cache listings depend on the requirements for logging a cache type.

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You know the answer to all of this is to just request to discover the coin again, Ask the new owner that since you discovered this coin in the past, if they would not mind you discovering it again with a current date. That would make everyone happy.

 

Not possible, unless of course the coin owner is willing to meet with all of the people who had their logs deleted. Otherwise, it's nothing more than a virtual log, likely to get the coin locked completely. Hopefully not a practice that you're using with any of your many geocoins.

No, They have already seen this coin, the owner is not handing out the tracking # to everybody, just those who logged it previously. And I resent your implication of me doing such a thing I am fully aware of the rules regarding virtual logging!

 

if they are willing to let them relog the coin then what was the point

of deleting them in the 1st place

why were they not just left on there

Because, The new owner has initiated a new activation date and and new starting point, so they don't want logs predating the activation. That's why. simple really

I say don't be so cheap and buy unactivatied coins and you wouldn't have any drama. :rolleyes::laughing:

Being Cheap has NOTHING to do with it. Some coins are no longer available to buy from a vendor, so you have to buy them from a private party. Don't be ignorant. I have many coins are activated and more so that are not.

Actually, the one being 'Cheap' here is not the one that purchases the coin, but the one that discovers it. The purchaser of the geocoin has purchased the right to that icon, but the discovery geocacher has done nothing but look at it.

I for one will not allow discovery logs on some of my trackables if it is done so at an event. I do not go to events to make discovery on geocoins because I don't believe that is an earned icon, and I will delete any logs on my coins where I have asked that the item not to be taken to events. I for one like the liberty of doing so and would not be in favor of the those logs being locked.

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<snip...snip...snip>

 

Actually, the one being 'Cheap' here is not the one that purchases the coin, but the one that discovers it. The purchaser of the geocoin has purchased the right to that icon, but the discovery geocacher has done nothing but look at it.

I for one will not allow discovery logs on some of my trackables if it is done so at an event. I do not go to events to make discovery on geocoins because I don't believe that is an earned icon, and I will delete any logs on my coins where I have asked that the item not to be taken to events. I for one like the liberty of doing so and would not be in favor of the those logs being locked.

 

I think the "cheap" comment was already discussed and apologized for, so I would hope we don't need to continue to address that. You make a very good point though. The one who purchases the coin, be it new or used, does "pay for" the icon. I also recognize your right to request that YOUR coins not be discovered at events. They're your coins and you have the right to request that. However, in the game of geocaching and in extension, geocoining...discovering IS allowed and a reward IS granted for doing so.

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<snip...snip...snip>

 

Actually, the one being 'Cheap' here is not the one that purchases the coin, but the one that discovers it. The purchaser of the geocoin has purchased the right to that icon, but the discovery geocacher has done nothing but look at it.

I for one will not allow discovery logs on some of my trackables if it is done so at an event. I do not go to events to make discovery on geocoins because I don't believe that is an earned icon, and I will delete any logs on my coins where I have asked that the item not to be taken to events. I for one like the liberty of doing so and would not be in favor of the those logs being locked.

 

I think the "cheap" comment was already discussed and apologized for, so I would hope we don't need to continue to address that. You make a very good point though. The one who purchases the coin, be it new or used, does "pay for" the icon. I also recognize your right to request that YOUR coins not be discovered at events. They're your coins and you have the right to request that. However, in the game of geocaching and in extension, geocoining...discovering IS allowed and a reward IS granted for doing so.

The 'Cheap' comment may have been addressed already, but I felt that my view point needed to be made.

Also, The tracking #'s were added to geocoins a few years back at the pleasure of the geocoin owner so they could benefit from watching it being moved by other geocachers. This original idea was strictly for the geocoin owner and not the person that moved it and the original icons for coins were all the same, generic. When the unique Icon was developed and introduced it pretty much created a monster with geocachers wanting to collect these tiny pics. But in reality, the geocoin is owned and so is that icon.

In The original content of this thread it was stated that the only logs removed were discovery logs at a single event. That coin never moved again. With discovery logging at events, alot times the loggers have never really seen the item, they just received a tracking # list to log, and never saw the coin and did not even know what they were logging. The owner of these coins should have the option to get rid of these logs when purchasing an activated coin.

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<snip...snip...snip>

 

Actually, the one being 'Cheap' here is not the one that purchases the coin, but the one that discovers it. The purchaser of the geocoin has purchased the right to that icon, but the discovery geocacher has done nothing but look at it.

I for one will not allow discovery logs on some of my trackables if it is done so at an event. I do not go to events to make discovery on geocoins because I don't believe that is an earned icon, and I will delete any logs on my coins where I have asked that the item not to be taken to events. I for one like the liberty of doing so and would not be in favor of the those logs being locked.

 

I think the "cheap" comment was already discussed and apologized for, so I would hope we don't need to continue to address that. You make a very good point though. The one who purchases the coin, be it new or used, does "pay for" the icon. I also recognize your right to request that YOUR coins not be discovered at events. They're your coins and you have the right to request that. However, in the game of geocaching and in extension, geocoining...discovering IS allowed and a reward IS granted for doing so.

The 'Cheap' comment may have been addressed already, but I felt that my view point needed to be made.

Also, The tracking #'s were added to geocoins a few years back at the pleasure of the geocoin owner so they could benefit from watching it being moved by other geocachers. This original idea was strictly for the geocoin owner and not the person that moved it and the original icons for coins were all the same, generic. When the unique Icon was developed and introduced it pretty much created a monster with geocachers wanting to collect these tiny pics. But in reality, the geocoin is owned and so is that icon.

In The original content of this thread it was stated that the only logs removed were discovery logs at a single event. That coin never moved again. With discovery logging at events, alot times the loggers have never really seen the item, they just received a tracking # list to log, and never saw the coin and did not even know what they were logging. The owner of these coins should have the option to get rid of these logs when purchasing an activated coin.

 

OK then, how do you differentiate between those who never saw the geocoin and those who picked it up and turned it over and over in their fingers for several minutes muttering "Wow" "Great geocoin"...?

 

ETA - the later certainly deserve the icon IMO!

Edited by keewee
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<snip...snip...snip>

 

Actually, the one being 'Cheap' here is not the one that purchases the coin, but the one that discovers it. The purchaser of the geocoin has purchased the right to that icon, but the discovery geocacher has done nothing but look at it.

I for one will not allow discovery logs on some of my trackables if it is done so at an event. I do not go to events to make discovery on geocoins because I don't believe that is an earned icon, and I will delete any logs on my coins where I have asked that the item not to be taken to events. I for one like the liberty of doing so and would not be in favor of the those logs being locked.

 

I think the "cheap" comment was already discussed and apologized for, so I would hope we don't need to continue to address that. You make a very good point though. The one who purchases the coin, be it new or used, does "pay for" the icon. I also recognize your right to request that YOUR coins not be discovered at events. They're your coins and you have the right to request that. However, in the game of geocaching and in extension, geocoining...discovering IS allowed and a reward IS granted for doing so.

The 'Cheap' comment may have been addressed already, but I felt that my view point needed to be made.

Also, The tracking #'s were added to geocoins a few years back at the pleasure of the geocoin owner so they could benefit from watching it being moved by other geocachers. This original idea was strictly for the geocoin owner and not the person that moved it and the original icons for coins were all the same, generic. When the unique Icon was developed and introduced it pretty much created a monster with geocachers wanting to collect these tiny pics. But in reality, the geocoin is owned and so is that icon.

In The original content of this thread it was stated that the only logs removed were discovery logs at a single event. That coin never moved again. With discovery logging at events, alot times the loggers have never really seen the item, they just received a tracking # list to log, and never saw the coin and did not even know what they were logging. The owner of these coins should have the option to get rid of these logs when purchasing an activated coin.

 

OK then, how do you differentiate between those who never saw the geocoin and those who picked it up and turned it over and over in their fingers for several minutes muttering "Wow" "Great geocoin"...?

 

ETA - the later certainly deserve the icon IMO!

Well, the NEW owner would not know this, but it should still be Their Option to keep or remove these logs. You are getting upset with the new owner but they are not the ones getting rid of these coins, maybe before logging a coin at an event you should ask the owner if they plan on keeping this coin forever.

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<snip...snip...snip>

 

Actually, the one being 'Cheap' here is not the one that purchases the coin, but the one that discovers it. The purchaser of the geocoin has purchased the right to that icon, but the discovery geocacher has done nothing but look at it.

I for one will not allow discovery logs on some of my trackables if it is done so at an event. I do not go to events to make discovery on geocoins because I don't believe that is an earned icon, and I will delete any logs on my coins where I have asked that the item not to be taken to events. I for one like the liberty of doing so and would not be in favor of the those logs being locked.

 

I think the "cheap" comment was already discussed and apologized for, so I would hope we don't need to continue to address that. You make a very good point though. The one who purchases the coin, be it new or used, does "pay for" the icon. I also recognize your right to request that YOUR coins not be discovered at events. They're your coins and you have the right to request that. However, in the game of geocaching and in extension, geocoining...discovering IS allowed and a reward IS granted for doing so.

The 'Cheap' comment may have been addressed already, but I felt that my view point needed to be made.

Also, The tracking #'s were added to geocoins a few years back at the pleasure of the geocoin owner so they could benefit from watching it being moved by other geocachers. This original idea was strictly for the geocoin owner and not the person that moved it and the original icons for coins were all the same, generic. When the unique Icon was developed and introduced it pretty much created a monster with geocachers wanting to collect these tiny pics. But in reality, the geocoin is owned and so is that icon.

In The original content of this thread it was stated that the only logs removed were discovery logs at a single event. That coin never moved again. With discovery logging at events, alot times the loggers have never really seen the item, they just received a tracking # list to log, and never saw the coin and did not even know what they were logging. The owner of these coins should have the option to get rid of these logs when purchasing an activated coin.

 

OK then, how do you differentiate between those who never saw the geocoin and those who picked it up and turned it over and over in their fingers for several minutes muttering "Wow" "Great geocoin"...?

 

ETA - the later certainly deserve the icon IMO!

Well, the NEW owner would not know this, but it should still be Their Option to keep or remove these logs. You are getting upset with the new owner but they are not the ones getting rid of these coins, maybe before logging a coin at an event you should ask the owner if they plan on keeping this coin forever.

 

That's not feasible. If you want to change peoples minds, you need to come up with something that's at the very least reasonable. Things happen. Folks lose jobs. Guys stop geocaching. People die.

 

I'm still wishing and waiting for one solid reason to come up for continuing to allow deleted logs of the regular variety. Not the mistake logs, not the editing of logs, but the deletion of rightful discovery logs for no apparent reason. It's fine if you want to argue your point, but what exactly is your point?

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<snip...snip...snip>

 

Actually, the one being 'Cheap' here is not the one that purchases the coin, but the one that discovers it. The purchaser of the geocoin has purchased the right to that icon, but the discovery geocacher has done nothing but look at it.

I for one will not allow discovery logs on some of my trackables if it is done so at an event. I do not go to events to make discovery on geocoins because I don't believe that is an earned icon, and I will delete any logs on my coins where I have asked that the item not to be taken to events. I for one like the liberty of doing so and would not be in favor of the those logs being locked.

 

I think the "cheap" comment was already discussed and apologized for, so I would hope we don't need to continue to address that. You make a very good point though. The one who purchases the coin, be it new or used, does "pay for" the icon. I also recognize your right to request that YOUR coins not be discovered at events. They're your coins and you have the right to request that. However, in the game of geocaching and in extension, geocoining...discovering IS allowed and a reward IS granted for doing so.

The 'Cheap' comment may have been addressed already, but I felt that my view point needed to be made.

Also, The tracking #'s were added to geocoins a few years back at the pleasure of the geocoin owner so they could benefit from watching it being moved by other geocachers. This original idea was strictly for the geocoin owner and not the person that moved it and the original icons for coins were all the same, generic. When the unique Icon was developed and introduced it pretty much created a monster with geocachers wanting to collect these tiny pics. But in reality, the geocoin is owned and so is that icon.

In The original content of this thread it was stated that the only logs removed were discovery logs at a single event. That coin never moved again. With discovery logging at events, alot times the loggers have never really seen the item, they just received a tracking # list to log, and never saw the coin and did not even know what they were logging. The owner of these coins should have the option to get rid of these logs when purchasing an activated coin.

 

OK then, how do you differentiate between those who never saw the geocoin and those who picked it up and turned it over and over in their fingers for several minutes muttering "Wow" "Great geocoin"...?

 

ETA - the later certainly deserve the icon IMO!

Well, the NEW owner would not know this, but it should still be Their Option to keep or remove these logs. You are getting upset with the new owner but they are not the ones getting rid of these coins, maybe before logging a coin at an event you should ask the owner if they plan on keeping this coin forever.

 

Whether it should be Their Option to keep or remove these logs is the matter of discussion here and personally I'm hoping that GS will make a ruling one way or another based on the players opinions. Your opinion seems to be that they should. Mine is that they shouldn't. (Keep in mind that I also have a very strong feeling about the log itself...not JUST the icon.)

 

That being said, I'm not upset with anyone who is still playing by the rules. Currently the rules allow deleting. I want to see that changed to protect EVERYONE'S rights in this game.

Link to comment

<snip...snip...snip>

 

Actually, the one being 'Cheap' here is not the one that purchases the coin, but the one that discovers it. The purchaser of the geocoin has purchased the right to that icon, but the discovery geocacher has done nothing but look at it.

I for one will not allow discovery logs on some of my trackables if it is done so at an event. I do not go to events to make discovery on geocoins because I don't believe that is an earned icon, and I will delete any logs on my coins where I have asked that the item not to be taken to events. I for one like the liberty of doing so and would not be in favor of the those logs being locked.

 

I think the "cheap" comment was already discussed and apologized for, so I would hope we don't need to continue to address that. You make a very good point though. The one who purchases the coin, be it new or used, does "pay for" the icon. I also recognize your right to request that YOUR coins not be discovered at events. They're your coins and you have the right to request that. However, in the game of geocaching and in extension, geocoining...discovering IS allowed and a reward IS granted for doing so.

The 'Cheap' comment may have been addressed already, but I felt that my view point needed to be made.

Also, The tracking #'s were added to geocoins a few years back at the pleasure of the geocoin owner so they could benefit from watching it being moved by other geocachers. This original idea was strictly for the geocoin owner and not the person that moved it and the original icons for coins were all the same, generic. When the unique Icon was developed and introduced it pretty much created a monster with geocachers wanting to collect these tiny pics. But in reality, the geocoin is owned and so is that icon.

In The original content of this thread it was stated that the only logs removed were discovery logs at a single event. That coin never moved again. With discovery logging at events, alot times the loggers have never really seen the item, they just received a tracking # list to log, and never saw the coin and did not even know what they were logging. The owner of these coins should have the option to get rid of these logs when purchasing an activated coin.

 

OK then, how do you differentiate between those who never saw the geocoin and those who picked it up and turned it over and over in their fingers for several minutes muttering "Wow" "Great geocoin"...?

 

ETA - the later certainly deserve the icon IMO!

Well, the NEW owner would not know this, but it should still be Their Option to keep or remove these logs. You are getting upset with the new owner but they are not the ones getting rid of these coins, maybe before logging a coin at an event you should ask the owner if they plan on keeping this coin forever.

 

That's not feasible. If you want to change peoples minds, you need to come up with something that's at the very least reasonable. Things happen. Folks lose jobs. Guys stop geocaching. People die.

 

I'm still wishing and waiting for one solid reason to come up for continuing to allow deleted logs of the regular variety. Not the mistake logs, not the editing of logs, but the deletion of rightful discovery logs for no apparent reason. It's fine if you want to argue your point, but what exactly is your point?

The point is - I do not have to convince you or anybody else as I am not asking for a rule change, you are. I prefer it to stay the way it is. and far as I am concerned you have not convinced me that it should change because the issue is not vast enough, not everyone removes logs only a very small few do this and from what I have read they are only discovery logs from events nothing more so this to me does not warrant a rule change.

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Whether it should be Their Option to keep or remove these logs is the matter of discussion here and personally I'm hoping that GS will make a ruling one way or another based on the players opinions. Your opinion seems to be that they should. Mine is that they shouldn't. (Keep in mind that I also have a very strong feeling about the log itself...not JUST the icon.)

 

That being said, I'm not upset with anyone who is still playing by the rules. Currently the rules allow deleting. I want to see that changed to protect EVERYONE'S rights in this game.

Discovery on coins is a Privilege - not a right

Edited by randomincoherencies
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Whether it should be Their Option to keep or remove these logs is the matter of discussion here and personally I'm hoping that GS will make a ruling one way or another based on the players opinions. Your opinion seems to be that they should. Mine is that they shouldn't. (Keep in mind that I also have a very strong feeling about the log itself...not JUST the icon.)

 

That being said, I'm not upset with anyone who is still playing by the rules. Currently the rules allow deleting. I want to see that changed to protect EVERYONE'S rights in this game.

Discovery on coins is a Privilege - not a right

 

I would strongly disagree with you there. Why? Because Discovered is an option on the geocoin page - therefore it is a right for anyone who see's that geocoin. Not a privilege. (IMO)

 

(Oh, and I corrected your missing quote marker - you should too in your previous post, otherwise it will cause problems for anyone using Reply on your post. (Your missing the start quote for imoutnabout))

Edited by keewee
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Whether it should be Their Option to keep or remove these logs is the matter of discussion here and personally I'm hoping that GS will make a ruling one way or another based on the players opinions. Your opinion seems to be that they should. Mine is that they shouldn't. (Keep in mind that I also have a very strong feeling about the log itself...not JUST the icon.)

 

That being said, I'm not upset with anyone who is still playing by the rules. Currently the rules allow deleting. I want to see that changed to protect EVERYONE'S rights in this game.

Discovery on coins is a Privilege - not a right

 

I would strongly disagree with you there. Why? Because Discovered is an option on the geocoin page - therefore it is a right for anyone who see's that geocoin. Not a privilege. (IMO)

 

(Oh, and I corrected your missing quote marker - you should too in your previous post, otherwise it will cause problems for anyone using Reply on your post. (Your missing the start quote for imoutnabout))

Oh I'm sorry - I was not aware there was 'Bill of Rights' for logging geocoins. Can you send me that link please.

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<snip...snip...snip>

 

Actually, the one being 'Cheap' here is not the one that purchases the coin, but the one that discovers it. The purchaser of the geocoin has purchased the right to that icon, but the discovery geocacher has done nothing but look at it.

I for one will not allow discovery logs on some of my trackables if it is done so at an event. I do not go to events to make discovery on geocoins because I don't believe that is an earned icon, and I will delete any logs on my coins where I have asked that the item not to be taken to events. I for one like the liberty of doing so and would not be in favor of the those logs being locked.

 

I think the "cheap" comment was already discussed and apologized for, so I would hope we don't need to continue to address that. You make a very good point though. The one who purchases the coin, be it new or used, does "pay for" the icon. I also recognize your right to request that YOUR coins not be discovered at events. They're your coins and you have the right to request that. However, in the game of geocaching and in extension, geocoining...discovering IS allowed and a reward IS granted for doing so.

The 'Cheap' comment may have been addressed already, but I felt that my view point needed to be made.

Also, The tracking #'s were added to geocoins a few years back at the pleasure of the geocoin owner so they could benefit from watching it being moved by other geocachers. This original idea was strictly for the geocoin owner and not the person that moved it and the original icons for coins were all the same, generic. When the unique Icon was developed and introduced it pretty much created a monster with geocachers wanting to collect these tiny pics. But in reality, the geocoin is owned and so is that icon.

In The original content of this thread it was stated that the only logs removed were discovery logs at a single event. That coin never moved again. With discovery logging at events, alot times the loggers have never really seen the item, they just received a tracking # list to log, and never saw the coin and did not even know what they were logging. The owner of these coins should have the option to get rid of these logs when purchasing an activated coin.

 

OK then, how do you differentiate between those who never saw the geocoin and those who picked it up and turned it over and over in their fingers for several minutes muttering "Wow" "Great geocoin"...?

 

ETA - the later certainly deserve the icon IMO!

Well, the NEW owner would not know this, but it should still be Their Option to keep or remove these logs. You are getting upset with the new owner but they are not the ones getting rid of these coins, maybe before logging a coin at an event you should ask the owner if they plan on keeping this coin forever.

 

That's not feasible. If you want to change peoples minds, you need to come up with something that's at the very least reasonable. Things happen. Folks lose jobs. Guys stop geocaching. People die.

 

I'm still wishing and waiting for one solid reason to come up for continuing to allow deleted logs of the regular variety. Not the mistake logs, not the editing of logs, but the deletion of rightful discovery logs for no apparent reason. It's fine if you want to argue your point, but what exactly is your point?

The point is - I do not have to convince you or anybody else as I am not asking for a rule change, you are. I prefer it to stay the way it is. and far as I am concerned you have not convinced me that it should change because the issue is not vast enough, not everyone removes logs only a very small few do this and from what I have read they are only discovery logs from events nothing more so this to me does not warrant a rule change.

 

Cool. Point taken. You don't want a rule change.

 

I'm not really sure why, if you have things the way you want them, that you continue to post here and stir the hornets nest. Don't get me wrong, it's fine by me. I appreciate you sounding the rally cry for the vast majority that agree with the need for a rule change on this issue. I'm just not sure how it's helping from your perspective.

 

From my side, I just like to debate. These issues are fun for me, IF there's an actual argument to the contrary. That's what I'm trying to find from you, or one of your Oregon counterparts randomly taking part in this thread, one at a time.

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<snip...snip...snip>

 

Actually, the one being 'Cheap' here is not the one that purchases the coin, but the one that discovers it. The purchaser of the geocoin has purchased the right to that icon, but the discovery geocacher has done nothing but look at it.

I for one will not allow discovery logs on some of my trackables if it is done so at an event. I do not go to events to make discovery on geocoins because I don't believe that is an earned icon, and I will delete any logs on my coins where I have asked that the item not to be taken to events. I for one like the liberty of doing so and would not be in favor of the those logs being locked.

 

I think the "cheap" comment was already discussed and apologized for, so I would hope we don't need to continue to address that. You make a very good point though. The one who purchases the coin, be it new or used, does "pay for" the icon. I also recognize your right to request that YOUR coins not be discovered at events. They're your coins and you have the right to request that. However, in the game of geocaching and in extension, geocoining...discovering IS allowed and a reward IS granted for doing so.

The 'Cheap' comment may have been addressed already, but I felt that my view point needed to be made.

Also, The tracking #'s were added to geocoins a few years back at the pleasure of the geocoin owner so they could benefit from watching it being moved by other geocachers. This original idea was strictly for the geocoin owner and not the person that moved it and the original icons for coins were all the same, generic. When the unique Icon was developed and introduced it pretty much created a monster with geocachers wanting to collect these tiny pics. But in reality, the geocoin is owned and so is that icon.

In The original content of this thread it was stated that the only logs removed were discovery logs at a single event. That coin never moved again. With discovery logging at events, alot times the loggers have never really seen the item, they just received a tracking # list to log, and never saw the coin and did not even know what they were logging. The owner of these coins should have the option to get rid of these logs when purchasing an activated coin.

 

OK then, how do you differentiate between those who never saw the geocoin and those who picked it up and turned it over and over in their fingers for several minutes muttering "Wow" "Great geocoin"...?

 

ETA - the later certainly deserve the icon IMO!

Well, the NEW owner would not know this, but it should still be Their Option to keep or remove these logs. You are getting upset with the new owner but they are not the ones getting rid of these coins, maybe before logging a coin at an event you should ask the owner if they plan on keeping this coin forever.

 

That's not feasible. If you want to change peoples minds, you need to come up with something that's at the very least reasonable. Things happen. Folks lose jobs. Guys stop geocaching. People die.

 

I'm still wishing and waiting for one solid reason to come up for continuing to allow deleted logs of the regular variety. Not the mistake logs, not the editing of logs, but the deletion of rightful discovery logs for no apparent reason. It's fine if you want to argue your point, but what exactly is your point?

The point is - I do not have to convince you or anybody else as I am not asking for a rule change, you are. I prefer it to stay the way it is. and far as I am concerned you have not convinced me that it should change because the issue is not vast enough, not everyone removes logs only a very small few do this and from what I have read they are only discovery logs from events nothing more so this to me does not warrant a rule change.

 

Cool. Point taken. You don't want a rule change.

 

I'm not really sure why, if you have things the way you want them, that you continue to post here and stir the hornets nest. Don't get me wrong, it's fine by me. I appreciate you sounding the rally cry for the vast majority that agree with the need for a rule change on this issue. I'm just not sure how it's helping from your perspective.

 

From my side, I just like to debate. These issues are fun for me, IF there's an actual argument to the contrary. That's what I'm trying to find from you, or one of your Oregon counterparts randomly taking part in this thread, one at a time.

well I have noticed that alot of the posters here, that share your point of view, are counterparts of yours. So just because we are from the same area, does not minimize our point of views.

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well I have noticed that alot of the posters here, that share your point of view, are counterparts of yours. So just because we are from the same area, does not minimize our point of views.

 

No you haven't. I've met one person who has posted in this thread. The rest I don't know from Adam.

 

The same can't be said for you, and you are correct that it does not minimize your point of view. It does seem to localize it, however, which was my only point to begin with.

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People, it's not just Keep logs or Delete logs.

Archive them. Players can keep their logs, and icons, and owners can visibly clear off their trackable listing page so it's effectively "new", if they want.

Everyone = happy.

 

eta: 'archive' being a suggested feature, not a current ability

Edited by thebruce0
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Whether it should be Their Option to keep or remove these logs is the matter of discussion here and personally I'm hoping that GS will make a ruling one way or another based on the players opinions. Your opinion seems to be that they should. Mine is that they shouldn't. (Keep in mind that I also have a very strong feeling about the log itself...not JUST the icon.)

 

That being said, I'm not upset with anyone who is still playing by the rules. Currently the rules allow deleting. I want to see that changed to protect EVERYONE'S rights in this game.

Discovery on coins is a Privilege - not a right

 

I would strongly disagree with you there. Why? Because Discovered is an option on the geocoin page - therefore it is a right for anyone who see's that geocoin. Not a privilege. (IMO)

 

(Oh, and I corrected your missing quote marker - you should too in your previous post, otherwise it will cause problems for anyone using Reply on your post. (Your missing the start quote for imoutnabout))

Oh I'm sorry - I was not aware there was 'Bill of Rights' for logging geocoins. Can you send me that link please.

 

Read carefully what people write. I didn't say anything on any 'Bill of Rights'.

 

I was commenting on your use of words - "privilege" and "right". If it were a "privilege" then I would not expect to find "Discover" as an option for logging geocoins - that's the point I was making. It is a privilege for people to share their geocoins. With geocaching when people move or discover a geocoin they have the right to log it as such. Just as the owner has the right to remove some logs from their geocoin, currently.

 

The Geocaching 101 FAQ says the following:

"Discover" the Trackable

When you have seen a Trackable in person, but have not moved it, you can log that you have "discovered" it. ...

 

It says you are allowed to log it as Discovered... sounds like people have the right to do it to me. Again, just my point of view, and you have yours. :)

 

Oh - and you still have not corrected the coding issue from the earlier post.

Edited by keewee
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Whether it should be Their Option to keep or remove these logs is the matter of discussion here and personally I'm hoping that GS will make a ruling one way or another based on the players opinions. Your opinion seems to be that they should. Mine is that they shouldn't. (Keep in mind that I also have a very strong feeling about the log itself...not JUST the icon.)

 

That being said, I'm not upset with anyone who is still playing by the rules. Currently the rules allow deleting. I want to see that changed to protect EVERYONE'S rights in this game.

Discovery on coins is a Privilege - not a right

 

I would strongly disagree with you there. Why? Because Discovered is an option on the geocoin page - therefore it is a right for anyone who see's that geocoin. Not a privilege. (IMO)

 

(Oh, and I corrected your missing quote marker - you should too in your previous post, otherwise it will cause problems for anyone using Reply on your post. (Your missing the start quote for imoutnabout))

Oh I'm sorry - I was not aware there was 'Bill of Rights' for logging geocoins. Can you send me that link please.

 

Read carefully what people write. I didn't say anything on any 'Bill of Rights'.

 

I was commenting on your use of words - "privilege" and "right". If it were a "privilege" then I would not expect to find "Discover" as an option for logging geocoins - that's the point I was making. It is a privilege for people to share their geocoins. With geocaching when people move or discover a geocoin they have the right to log it as such. Just as the owner has the right to remove some logs from their geocoin, currently.

 

The Geocaching 101 FAQ says the following:

"Discover" the Trackable

When you have seen a Trackable in person, but have not moved it, you can log that you have "discovered" it. ...

 

It says you are allowed to log it as Discovered... sounds like people have the right to do it to me. Again, just my point of view, and you have yours. :)

 

Oh - and you still have not corrected the coding issue from the earlier post.

 

I was going to post something similar to keewee's post, quoted from The Geocaching 101 FAQ.

Let me add this from Geocoin FAQ:

 

Geocoin FAQ

What is a Geocoin?

A Geocoin is a special coin created by individuals or groups of geocachers as a kind of signature item or calling card. Like Travel Bug® Trackables, each Geocoin is assigned a unique tracking ID which allows them to travel from geocache to geocache or to be passed amongst friends, picking up stories along the way.

 

The bold is mine. The color change to emphasize my feeling about the importance of the HISTORY of the coins told through the logs.

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People, it's not just Keep logs or Delete logs.

Archive them. Players can keep their logs, and icons, and owners can visibly clear off their trackable listing page so it's effectively "new", if they want.

Everyone = happy.

 

eta: 'archive' being a suggested feature, not a current ability

 

And again, I'll say that I agree. I see no harm and all benefit in your suggestion. Would you post that on the Feature forum? I wouldn't feel right about it since it wasn't my idea...but unless I hear a very good argument against it, I'll back you 100%!

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People, it's not just Keep logs or Delete logs.

Archive them. Players can keep their logs, and icons, and owners can visibly clear off their trackable listing page so it's effectively "new", if they want.

Everyone = happy.

 

eta: 'archive' being a suggested feature, not a current ability

 

And again, I'll say that I agree. I see no harm and all benefit in your suggestion. Would you post that on the Feature forum? I wouldn't feel right about it since it wasn't my idea...but unless I hear a very good argument against it, I'll back you 100%!

 

+1 from me

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.

 

Read carefully what people write. I didn't say anything on any 'Bill of Rights'.

 

I was commenting on your use of words - "privilege" and "right". If it were a "privilege" then I would not expect to find "Discover" as an option for logging geocoins - that's the point I was making. It is a privilege for people to share their geocoins. With geocaching when people move or discover a geocoin they have the right to log it as such. Just as the owner has the right to remove some logs from their geocoin, currently.

 

The Geocaching 101 FAQ says the following:

"Discover" the Trackable

When you have seen a Trackable in person, but have not moved it, you can log that you have "discovered" it. ...

 

It says you are allowed to log it as Discovered... sounds like people have the right to do it to me. Again, just my point of view, and you have yours. :)

 

Oh - and you still have not corrected the coding issue from the earlier post.

 

I was going to post something similar to keewee's post, quoted from The Geocaching 101 FAQ.

Let me add this from Geocoin FAQ:

 

Geocoin FAQ

What is a Geocoin?

A Geocoin is a special coin created by individuals or groups of geocachers as a kind of signature item or calling card. Like Travel Bug® Trackables, each Geocoin is assigned a unique tracking ID which allows them to travel from geocache to geocache or to be passed amongst friends, picking up stories along the way.

 

The bold is mine. The color change to emphasize my feeling about the importance of the HISTORY of the coins told through the logs.

Again - the only logs deleted were discovery logs made at one event, no real colorful history here, the coin was not moved, had no pics taken, no stories, just 'TFTD' logs.

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Not yet. Eventually perhaps. But I have no problem with anyone else passing on the suggestion either. To me it just seems a logical middle ground, though requires seemingly significant development time on GS's part compared to other things I'm sure they're working on or soon to be working on.

I'm just drawn to debate :P

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well I have noticed that alot of the posters here, that share your point of view, are counterparts of yours. So just because we are from the same area, does not minimize our point of views.

 

No you haven't. I've met one person who has posted in this thread. The rest I don't know from Adam.

 

The same can't be said for you, and you are correct that it does not minimize your point of view. It does seem to localize it, however, which was my only point to begin with.

Yes I can make the Same Assertion as you. And being I am from Oregon (BTW,the birthplace of geocaching) maybe my point should carry more weight. J/K of course. :laughing:

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Again - the only logs deleted were discovery logs made at one event, no real colorful history here, the coin was not moved, had no pics taken, no stories, just 'TFTD' logs.

 

The point here is that if *I* discovered a coin, who is anyone else to say that my discovery should not exist? What if it is a very good, important, personal memory I want in my history and stats? If anyone deletes that, I would be very upset. I don't necessarily care who the owner is - I saw that coin, I loved that coin, it's not mine, but I want to keep that log for my own history, really not caring specifically about that item's own history. The discovery here is my log, not the coin's, even though I become a part of the coin's history.

 

There are two perspectives in play here.

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well I have noticed that alot of the posters here, that share your point of view, are counterparts of yours. So just because we are from the same area, does not minimize our point of views.

 

No you haven't. I've met one person who has posted in this thread. The rest I don't know from Adam.

 

The same can't be said for you, and you are correct that it does not minimize your point of view. It does seem to localize it, however, which was my only point to begin with.

Yes I can make the Same Assertion as you. And being I am from Oregon (BTW,the birthplace of geocaching) maybe my point should carry more weight. J/K of course. :laughing:

 

I'm not sure I understand this. You can make what same assertion as I can?

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well I have noticed that alot of the posters here, that share your point of view, are counterparts of yours. So just because we are from the same area, does not minimize our point of views.

 

 

What evidence do you have that we are counterparts, and why would that matter anyway?

 

This statement seems designed to shut down a legitimate debatable discussion posted in a thread that is solely designed to discuss the nuances of geocoins.

 

I started this thread and the only person I have ever met that has also replied in this thread is the original coin owner who stated his preference about the entire issue.

 

The only other coiner who has posted that I have had any relationship with (due to playing geocoin fantasy football) has a counter opinion to mine (and she presented her views very well)

 

That said I don't think who knows who really matters in this discussion as long as it remains a discussion that is civil and debates the actual points presented. Feel free to support your friends and geo buddies, but please present a logical argument.

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well I have noticed that alot of the posters here, that share your point of view, are counterparts of yours. So just because we are from the same area, does not minimize our point of views.

 

 

What evidence do you have that we are counterparts, and why would that matter anyway?

 

This statement seems designed to shut down a legitimate debatable discussion posted in a thread that is solely designed to discuss the nuances of geocoins.

 

I started this thread and the only person I have ever met that has also replied in this thread is the original coin owner who stated his preference about the entire issue.

 

The only other coiner who has posted that I have had any relationship with (due to playing geocoin fantasy football) has a counter opinion to mine (and she presented her views very well)

 

That said I don't think who knows who really matters in this discussion as long as it remains a discussion that is civil and debates the actual points presented. Feel free to support your friends and geo buddies, but please present a logical argument.

Exactly, but I am not the one who is making these implications.

Edited by randomincoherencies
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well I have noticed that alot of the posters here, that share your point of view, are counterparts of yours. So just because we are from the same area, does not minimize our point of views.

 

 

What evidence do you have that we are counterparts, and why would that matter anyway?

 

This statement seems designed to shut down a legitimate debatable discussion posted in a thread that is solely designed to discuss the nuances of geocoins.

 

I started this thread and the only person I have ever met that has also replied in this thread is the original coin owner who stated his preference about the entire issue.

 

The only other coiner who has posted that I have had any relationship with (due to playing geocoin fantasy football) has a counter opinion to mine (and she presented her views very well)

 

That said I don't think who knows who really matters in this discussion as long as it remains a discussion that is civil and debates the actual points presented. Feel free to support your friends and geo buddies, but please present a logical argument.

 

In fairness, I am the one who made the original statement regarding counterparts. And the only reason I brought it up was to combine the fact with another that was pointed out earlier about another group of log deleters from (I believe) Ohio, and that the practice of deleting logs without reason seems to be localized in groups for some reason or another.

Edited by G & C
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People, it's not just Keep logs or Delete logs.

Archive them. Players can keep their logs, and icons, and owners can visibly clear off their trackable listing page so it's effectively "new", if they want.

Everyone = happy.

 

eta: 'archive' being a suggested feature, not a current ability

 

And again, I'll say that I agree. I see no harm and all benefit in your suggestion. Would you post that on the Feature forum? I wouldn't feel right about it since it wasn't my idea...but unless I hear a very good argument against it, I'll back you 100%!

 

+1 from me

+2 from me. Sounds like a very good idea. Everybody gets what they want (or at least it looks like it) and nobody gets hurt!

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<snipped this out since the quote markers were messed up and I don't know how to fix them>

 

Again - the only logs deleted were discovery logs made at one event, no real colorful history here, the coin was not moved, had no pics taken, no stories, just 'TFTD' logs.

 

I'm sorry. I wasn't clear about the history comment.

 

Yes, it's the history of the coins, but it's also the history of the coiner who posted it! I think they're BOTH important!

 

And I'm talking about coin logs IN GENERAL...not just this particular coin and those particular logs. They may have been boring to everyone including the loggers, I don't know. I didn't read them and I don't know the people involved.

 

I DO know that I have discovered many coins at events, out on the trails, in and at geocaches. I collect those little icons and I expect my logs to mark my days of geocaching/geocoining, and I'd be very upset if someone just deleted them. I play by the rules. Now that I'm aware that I can lose something important to the way I play this game simply because someone else plays differently (while still following the rules), I'd like to see a change in those rules. Period.

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<snipped this out since the quote markers were messed up and I don't know how to fix them>

 

Again - the only logs deleted were discovery logs made at one event, no real colorful history here, the coin was not moved, had no pics taken, no stories, just 'TFTD' logs.

 

I'm sorry. I wasn't clear about the history comment.

 

Yes, it's the history of the coins, but it's also the history of the coiner who posted it! I think they're BOTH important!

 

And I'm talking about coin logs IN GENERAL...not just this particular coin and those particular logs. They may have been boring to everyone including the loggers, I don't know. I didn't read them and I don't know the people involved.

 

I DO know that I have discovered many coins at events, out on the trails, in and at geocaches. I collect those little icons and I expect my logs to mark my days of geocaching/geocoining, and I'd be very upset if someone just deleted them. I play by the rules. Now that I'm aware that I can lose something important to the way I play this game simply because someone else plays differently (while still following the rules), I'd like to see a change in those rules. Period.

Still not Convinced that there is a real problem here that needs to be rectified with more rules. Logs are not being deleted willy nilly.

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I'm not sure if I am in the majority or minority of those who like to discover coins, but I could care less if there is an icon attached to my discovery. The fact that I personally discovered the coin is what matters to me and I would hate for that log to be deleted or in my opinion devalued by someone else. It's like being called a liar. I think it has been stated here before that as the new coin owner, you personally would have no idea behind the validity of the discoveries made on said coin, whether at an event, in the field or elsewhere. You would not know if the discoverey came from a list or if that person held that coin in their hand while admiring it. I am for leaving the logs and having an "archive" system as others have suggested.

Edited by the4dirtydogs
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That's not feasible. If you want to change peoples minds, you need to come up with something that's at the very least reasonable. Things happen. Folks lose jobs. Guys stop geocaching. People die.

 

I'm still wishing and waiting for one solid reason to come up for continuing to allow deleted logs of the regular variety. Not the mistake logs, not the editing of logs, but the deletion of rightful discovery logs for no apparent reason. It's fine if you want to argue your point, but what exactly is your point?

 

If you read the entire thread from start to finish there are several reasons to continue with the current policy of allowing deletion of logs. Just because they aren’t a solid reason in your opinion doesn’t mean that they aren’t a solid reason.

 

 

The point is - I do not have to convince you or anybody else as I am not asking for a rule change, you are. I prefer it to stay the way it is. and far as I am concerned you have not convinced me that it should change because the issue is not vast enough, not everyone removes logs only a very small few do this and from what I have read they are only discovery logs from events nothing more so this to me does not warrant a rule change.

 

Cool. Point taken. You don't want a rule change.

 

I'm not really sure why, if you have things the way you want them, that you continue to post here and stir the hornets nest. Don't get me wrong, it's fine by me. I appreciate you sounding the rally cry for the vast majority that agree with the need for a rule change on this issue. I'm just not sure how it's helping from your perspective.

 

From my side, I just like to debate. These issues are fun for me, IF there's an actual argument to the contrary. That's what I'm trying to find from you, or one of your Oregon counterparts randomly taking part in this thread, one at a time.

 

I agree with randomincherencies that I prefer the rule as it is. If any change is to be made then thebruce0 has made a very intriguing suggestion.

 

However, if you G&C are just here to debate because in general you like to debate then it would seem to me that you are the one stirring up the hornet’s nest. I also don’t see where you see the vast majority asking for a change. The “vast majority” of cachers don’t come to these forums…..

 

For the record I live in Michigan and have only met one of the posters in this thread in person. I have interacted with others through this forum, coin trading or fantasy football. I also don't believe I have ever deleted a log from a coin I have adopted.

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That's not feasible. If you want to change peoples minds, you need to come up with something that's at the very least reasonable. Things happen. Folks lose jobs. Guys stop geocaching. People die.

 

I'm still wishing and waiting for one solid reason to come up for continuing to allow deleted logs of the regular variety. Not the mistake logs, not the editing of logs, but the deletion of rightful discovery logs for no apparent reason. It's fine if you want to argue your point, but what exactly is your point?

 

If you read the entire thread from start to finish there are several reasons to continue with the current policy of allowing deletion of logs. Just because they aren’t a solid reason in your opinion doesn’t mean that they aren’t a solid reason.

 

 

The point is - I do not have to convince you or anybody else as I am not asking for a rule change, you are. I prefer it to stay the way it is. and far as I am concerned you have not convinced me that it should change because the issue is not vast enough, not everyone removes logs only a very small few do this and from what I have read they are only discovery logs from events nothing more so this to me does not warrant a rule change.

 

Cool. Point taken. You don't want a rule change.

 

I'm not really sure why, if you have things the way you want them, that you continue to post here and stir the hornets nest. Don't get me wrong, it's fine by me. I appreciate you sounding the rally cry for the vast majority that agree with the need for a rule change on this issue. I'm just not sure how it's helping from your perspective.

 

From my side, I just like to debate. These issues are fun for me, IF there's an actual argument to the contrary. That's what I'm trying to find from you, or one of your Oregon counterparts randomly taking part in this thread, one at a time.

 

I agree with randomincherencies that I prefer the rule as it is. If any change is to be made then thebruce0 has made a very intriguing suggestion.

 

However, if you G&C are just here to debate because in general you like to debate then it would seem to me that you are the one stirring up the hornet’s nest. I also don’t see where you see the vast majority asking for a change. The “vast majority” of cachers don’t come to these forums…..

 

For the record I live in Michigan and have only met one of the posters in this thread in person. I have interacted with others through this forum, coin trading or fantasy football. I also don't believe I have ever deleted a log from a coin I have adopted.

 

+1

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I agree with randomincherencies that I prefer the rule as it is. If any change is to be made then thebruce0 has made a very intriguing suggestion.

 

As the rule is, there is no rule. There needs to be some level of guidance for the people who like to take things to the extreme on both sides of the coin (no pun intended). No rules = anarchy = situations like these, where two sides get heated, angry, and wedges get driven between factions. I don't want that, and I doubt anyone here does. Yet, that seems to be where we are.

 

However, if you G&C are just here to debate because in general you like to debate then it would seem to me that you are the one stirring up the hornet’s nest. I also don’t see where you see the vast majority asking for a change. The “vast majority” of cachers don’t come to these forums…..

 

True, I said I like to debate, but try to read my entire post and not pick it apart to use the parts you like. I have presented the arguments for my side on numerous occasions. Now I'm here trying to figure out what the other side is exactly, and I'm having a hard time doing it. The good arguments have all regarded things like accidental logs, mistaken drops into wrong caches, virtual logs, things of that nature. Not once has there been a good argument given for allowing the continued deletions of rightful grabbed/discovery logs. At this point, that's my only desire in this thread, is to find out why you would want such a practice to continue unless it involves something that I mentioned above. Can YOU help me with that?

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I agree with randomincherencies that I prefer the rule as it is. If any change is to be made then thebruce0 has made a very intriguing suggestion.

 

As the rule is, there is no rule. There needs to be some level of guidance for the people who like to take things to the extreme on both sides of the coin (no pun intended). No rules = anarchy = situations like these, where two sides get heated, angry, and wedges get driven between factions. I don't want that, and I doubt anyone here does. Yet, that seems to be where we are.

 

However, if you G&C are just here to debate because in general you like to debate then it would seem to me that you are the one stirring up the hornet’s nest. I also don’t see where you see the vast majority asking for a change. The “vast majority” of cachers don’t come to these forums…..

 

True, I said I like to debate, but try to read my entire post and not pick it apart to use the parts you like. I have presented the arguments for my side on numerous occasions. Now I'm here trying to figure out what the other side is exactly, and I'm having a hard time doing it. The good arguments have all regarded things like accidental logs, mistaken drops into wrong caches, virtual logs, things of that nature. Not once has there been a good argument given for allowing the continued deletions of rightful grabbed/discovery logs. At this point, that's my only desire in this thread, is to find out why you would want such a practice to continue unless it involves something that I mentioned above. Can YOU help me with that?

 

This quote is pretty funny because I used your entire post #219 without deleting any of it. :laughing: :laughing:

 

I highly doubt that I or anyone else can give you what in your opinion is a "good argument" for allowing the current guidelines (not rules) to continue unchanged. No matter what is put forth you will find something wrong with it. You have your opinion and I have mine. I would like to continue to have the right to delete logs on the coins I own as I see fit. Whether I exercise that right or not is something different. I still want that right.

 

Maybe this is a more widespread problem than I think it is. My feeling is that the log deletions happen very rarely and the OP was venting because it happened to him. It also sounds like there are a very few cachers who do do it. I have moved probably close to 500 trackables and haven't had a log deleted. However, there has been one poster in this thread who has had several deleted all from one owner. If I had that happen to me I wouldn't bother with that owner's trackables either moving them or discovering them.

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I agree with randomincherencies that I prefer the rule as it is. If any change is to be made then thebruce0 has made a very intriguing suggestion.

 

As the rule is, there is no rule. There needs to be some level of guidance for the people who like to take things to the extreme on both sides of the coin (no pun intended). No rules = anarchy = situations like these, where two sides get heated, angry, and wedges get driven between factions. I don't want that, and I doubt anyone here does. Yet, that seems to be where we are.

 

However, if you G&C are just here to debate because in general you like to debate then it would seem to me that you are the one stirring up the hornet’s nest. I also don’t see where you see the vast majority asking for a change. The “vast majority” of cachers don’t come to these forums…..

 

True, I said I like to debate, but try to read my entire post and not pick it apart to use the parts you like. I have presented the arguments for my side on numerous occasions. Now I'm here trying to figure out what the other side is exactly, and I'm having a hard time doing it. The good arguments have all regarded things like accidental logs, mistaken drops into wrong caches, virtual logs, things of that nature. Not once has there been a good argument given for allowing the continued deletions of rightful grabbed/discovery logs. At this point, that's my only desire in this thread, is to find out why you would want such a practice to continue unless it involves something that I mentioned above. Can YOU help me with that?

 

This quote is pretty funny because I used your entire post #219 without deleting any of it. :laughing: :laughing:

 

I highly doubt that I or anyone else can give you what in your opinion is a "good argument" for allowing the current guidelines (not rules) to continue unchanged. No matter what is put forth you will find something wrong with it. You have your opinion and I have mine. I would like to continue to have the right to delete logs on the coins I own as I see fit. Whether I exercise that right or not is something different. I still want that right.

 

Maybe this is a more widespread problem than I think it is. My feeling is that the log deletions happen very rarely and the OP was venting because it happened to him. It also sounds like there are a very few cachers who do do it. I have moved probably close to 500 trackables and haven't had a log deleted. However, there has been one poster in this thread who has had several deleted all from one owner. If I had that happen to me I wouldn't bother with that owner's trackables either moving them or discovering them.

Very well put! You conveyed EXACTLY what I feel. Thanks for carrying the water for me. :lol:

Edited by randomincoherencies
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Ok guys were not suppose to be making anything personal

So that way this discussion can stay open.

 

I think the point is that if there isn't a rule put in what's to stop people from deleting all logs from all coins.

What if everyone woke up tomorrow and every coin you have logged had the logs deleted off of it.

And it showed you had no coins moved or discovered. By all rights as the rules are now that can happen

And there is nothing anyone can say.

 

All were saying is gs needs to lay down some ground rules so it can't happen.

So the best alternative I've heard is the archive button which would help both sides.

Then everyone gets what they want.

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Also to add because someone will mention that moved logs were not deleted.

 

What Im saying is the game is evolving

A few years ago no cacher would have ever thought of deleting a discover log that HAD been discovered.

Now some cachers see it as fine. (right or wrong not the question)

What if in a year everyone thinks you can delete all logs

 

We have to look at the big picture as new players come in they will play their own way.

Just as everyone reading this has. So what's to stop them from doing it.....

Edited by mlrs1996
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Also to add because someone will mention that moved logs were not deleted.

 

What Im saying is the game is evolving

A few years ago no cacher would have ever thought of deleting a discover log that HAD been discovered.

Now some cachers see it as fine. (right or wrong not the question)

What if in a year everyone thinks you can delete all logs

 

We have to look at the big picture as new players come in they will play their own way.

Just as everyone reading this has. So what's to stop them from doing it.....

 

Well put! :)

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Also to add because someone will mention that moved logs were not deleted.

 

What Im saying is the game is evolving

A few years ago no cacher would have ever thought of deleting a discover log that HAD been discovered.

Now some cachers see it as fine. (right or wrong not the question)

What if in a year everyone thinks you can delete all logs

 

We have to look at the big picture as new players come in they will play their own way.

Just as everyone reading this has. So what's to stop them from doing it.....

This is a strawman argument, it does not make sense.

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Also to add because someone will mention that moved logs were not deleted.

 

What Im saying is the game is evolving

A few years ago no cacher would have ever thought of deleting a discover log that HAD been discovered.

Now some cachers see it as fine. (right or wrong not the question)

What if in a year everyone thinks you can delete all logs

 

We have to look at the big picture as new players come in they will play their own way.

Just as everyone reading this has. So what's to stop them from doing it.....

 

Well put! :)

 

Here, here!

 

I have lost a few logs to random deleters. It is no fun. :sad:

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