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Owner wiped out all logs for geocoin


teamhaynes
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Apparently you have not read the previous posts, this coin had NO Mileage, it had not traveled it was only seen at one event and I as I have stated before those are the only type of logs I delete and the coin was never handled by anyone, so no vested interest. There is no mileage erased at all. as the new owner I like having this option and I believe I have the right to get rid of these 'boring' logs.

 

Yes, you do have that ability. Just be aware that not everybody is going to like it. People are discussing WHY they don't like it here and it is going to cause some angst.

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Apparently you have not read my reaction to the first post in which you made this statement. Mileage on coins in this analogy is not to be taken literally. The complete histry of the coin is part of its 'mileage, metaphorically speaking, not just the distances travelled, but also the discoveries.

 

 

Apparently you have not read the previous posts, this coin had NO Mileage, it had not traveled it was only seen at one event and I as I have stated before those are the only type of logs I delete and the coin was never handled by anyone, so no vested interest. There is no mileage erased at all. as the new owner I like having this option and I believe I have the right to get rid of these 'boring' logs.

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i do think this is a good thing for GS to look into

because if all that needs to be said is i thought it was boring so i deleted it

its going to cause more problems as more people join the game.

 

i saw nowhere in the "rules" for geocoins that said if you discover a coin at an event instead of finding it in a cache your log could be deleted in the future.

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i do think this is a good thing for GS to look into

because if all that needs to be said is i thought it was boring so i deleted it

its going to cause more problems as more people join the game.

 

i saw nowhere in the "rules" for geocoins that said if you discover a coin at an event instead of finding it in a cache your log could be deleted in the future.

 

There are No Rules for Geocoins, there is only etiquette and the main etiquette is to move the geocoin. Coins are property, they belong to the owner. no one else - For someone else To change the 'rules' for something that you own is not correct

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Apparently you have not read the previous posts, this coin had NO Mileage, it had not traveled it was only seen at one event and I as I have stated before those are the only type of logs I delete and the coin was never handled by anyone, so no vested interest. There is no mileage erased at all. as the new owner I like having this option and I believe I have the right to get rid of these 'boring' logs.

 

Yes, you do have that ability. Just be aware that not everybody is going to like it. People are discussing WHY they don't like it here and it is going to cause some angst.

 

Like it was stated above, it's a coin, not a kidney

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i do think this is a good thing for GS to look into

because if all that needs to be said is i thought it was boring so i deleted it

its going to cause more problems as more people join the game.

 

i saw nowhere in the "rules" for geocoins that said if you discover a coin at an event instead of finding it in a cache your log could be deleted in the future.

 

There are No Rules for Geocoins, there is only etiquette and the main etiquette is to move the geocoin. Coins are property, they belong to the owner. no one else - For someone else To change the 'rules' for something that you own is not correct

 

i agree some what

 

but what about a tattoo tb, or car tb, or name tag tb or the tb's on shirts

they are not moved by people but discovered so why would i go in and delete all of the logs

of people that discovered my tattoo... because then everyone would loose that icon.

because even when its a tattoo its still just a regular tb that i had that number put on to my arm so technically i could sell that number if i decided too (not sure what good it would do )lol but i could

 

also you stated that there are no rules for this i think thats what alot of us are saying.

there needs to be a rule to cover this

Edited by mlrs1996
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i do think this is a good thing for GS to look into

because if all that needs to be said is i thought it was boring so i deleted it

its going to cause more problems as more people join the game.

 

i saw nowhere in the "rules" for geocoins that said if you discover a coin at an event instead of finding it in a cache your log could be deleted in the future.

 

There are No Rules for Geocoins, there is only etiquette and the main etiquette is to move the geocoin. Coins are property, they belong to the owner. no one else - For someone else To change the 'rules' for something that you own is not correct

 

i agree some what

 

but what about a tattoo tb, or car tb, or name tag tb or the tb's on shirts

they are not moved by people but discovered so why would i go in and delete all of the logs

of people that discovered my tattoo... because then everyone would loose that icon.

because even when its a tattoo its still just a regular tb that i had that number put on to my arm so technically i could sell that number if i decided too (not sure what good it would do )lol but i could

 

also you stated that there are no rules for this i think thats what alot of us are saying.

there needs to be a rule to cover this

Well for one, TB's Have no real value once activated. they are not the same as a geocoin. but if you sell yours then yes, the new owner should have the ability to delete any logs they want to.

 

oh and I disagree about rules for geocoins. They are property and no rules should be set down on something you own, and remember there are no guarantees in life. just cause you write something, does not mean it will be there forever.

Edited by GeoMinions
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again this is why i think GS should set "rules" to stop or at least govern this from being done

thats how i see it

 

before rules come down something has to happen to provoke a rule change thats why there are rules to change something thats unfair or not done the right way. this is a good example of something that needs to be looked at

 

you also own all of the caches you put out but there are rules to follow why not with the coins.

as you stated earlier you own that cache not anyone else.

 

even when you own something there are always rules.

 

i own a car and i have to follow the rules or they will take my car

i own my home but i still have to follow the rules.

 

just because its owned by someone shouldnt mean they shouldnt have any rules because of it

Edited by mlrs1996
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again this is why i think GS should set "rules" to stop or at least govern this from being done

thats how i see it

 

before rules come down something has to happen to provoke a rule change thats why there are rules to change something thats unfair or not done the right way. this is a good example of something that needs to be looked at

 

I am 100% opposed to any rules, I like it the way it is. And in case you weren't aware. Life can be unfair at times.

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again this is why i think GS should set "rules" to stop or at least govern this from being done

thats how i see it

 

before rules come down something has to happen to provoke a rule change thats why there are rules to change something thats unfair or not done the right way. this is a good example of something that needs to be looked at

 

I am 100% opposed to any rules, I like it the way it is. And in case you weren't aware. Life can be unfair at times.

 

first i do understand that life is not always fair im a grown man and i know that for a fact.

but same thing can be said to you if they set rules for coins you need to understand that same quote.

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Let's not talk about "fair" or "unfair". Really, this is a matter of opinion, not rights or entitlement.

 

There are obviously strong feelings about this on both sides, so I encourage further, polite debate on the topic.

 

Just be aware that if you really want it changed, it needs to be a feature request and people need to post in favor of that change.

 

Carry on.

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So let me ask: Has anybody suggested this as a feature request yet or is it just going to be discussed and debated by a few in this thread?

 

I haven't...but only because I'm not quite sure HOW I'd like to see this issue "ruled upon". I'm not a big fan of rules and I'm not sure how detailed or strict GS should be on the geocoin page issue. So other than "I can't believe some people feel it's ok to take away my honestly earned icon", I don't know what to say. Quite frankly I'm surprised that someone would do that. Maybe further debate is necessary?

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RULES AND REGUALTIONS ERODE FREEDOM - I will be definitely voting NO on this if it comes to that!

 

Finally something that I agree with you about.

 

However, unfortunately, the time comes for rules and regulations when free people start doing things that degrade the lives of others. In this case, you exercising your freedom is causing other people to lose something that they clearly care a great deal about. If you were to use your freedom more responsibly, perhaps the need for rules and regulations wouldn't be coming to fruition at this point.

 

You gain nothing by deleting logs. Absolutely nothing. Your coin is worth nothing more, nothing less. It is still worth what it was worth when you bought it with the logs. Others, however, lose icons, discoveries, miles, etc. when you delete logs. This is one of the many, many reasons that have been brought to light in this very thread as to why what you and your friends are doing is wrong and irresponsible.

Edited by G & C
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And you are welcome to debate - that's what this thread is for.

 

I think people latch on to terms.

 

For example, I could pick apart the use of the word "earned" when you said "...honestly earned icon".

What did you do to EARN it? You saw it in a book or in somebody's hand.

That person paid for it and has "earned" the right to do what they want with the logs.

(I'm playing Devil's Advocate here...)

 

As long as the discussion remains civil, there's no reason that this thread cannot/will not continue as an exchange of ideas and opinions.

 

In my personal opinion, gains are only achieved through (civil) disagreement and debate.

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You know the answer to all of this is to just request to discover the coin again, Ask the new owner that since you discovered this coin in the past, if they would not mind you discovering it again with a current date. That would make everyone happy.

 

Not possible, unless of course the coin owner is willing to meet with all of the people who had their logs deleted. Otherwise, it's nothing more than a virtual log, likely to get the coin locked completely. Hopefully not a practice that you're using with any of your many geocoins.

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RULES AND REGUALTIONS ERODE FREEDOM - I will be definitely voting NO on this if it comes to that!

 

Finally something that I agree with you about.

 

However, unfortunately, the time comes for rules and regulations when free people start doing things that degrade the lives of others. In this case, you exercising your freedom is causing other people to lose something that they clearly care a great deal about. If you were to use your freedom more responsibly, perhaps the need for rules and regulations wouldn't be coming to fruition at this point.

 

You gain nothing by deleting logs. Absolutely nothing. Your coin is worth nothing more, nothing less. It is still worth what it was worth when you bought it with the logs. Others, however, lose icons, discoveries, miles, etc. when you delete logs. This is one of the many, many reasons that have been brought to light in this very thread as to why what you and your friends are doing is wrong and irresponsible.

You'd think I caused the world to crash from being in favor of allowing a new coin owner to delete a simple TFT discovery log. Give me a break. Let's get this back into prospective, it is only an Icon, it does not affect your life in any way.

I am not the reason for a rule change it's the complainers of losing a simple icon that want rule changed.

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You know the answer to all of this is to just request to discover the coin again, Ask the new owner that since you discovered this coin in the past, if they would not mind you discovering it again with a current date. That would make everyone happy.

 

Not possible, unless of course the coin owner is willing to meet with all of the people who had their logs deleted. Otherwise, it's nothing more than a virtual log, likely to get the coin locked completely. Hopefully not a practice that you're using with any of your many geocoins.

No, They have already seen this coin, the owner is not handing out the tracking # to everybody, just those who logged it previously. And I resent your implication of me doing such a thing I am fully aware of the rules regarding virtual logging!

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You know the answer to all of this is to just request to discover the coin again, Ask the new owner that since you discovered this coin in the past, if they would not mind you discovering it again with a current date. That would make everyone happy.

 

Not possible, unless of course the coin owner is willing to meet with all of the people who had their logs deleted. Otherwise, it's nothing more than a virtual log, likely to get the coin locked completely. Hopefully not a practice that you're using with any of your many geocoins.

No, They have already seen this coin, the owner is not handing out the tracking # to everybody, just those who logged it previously. And I resent your implication of me doing such a thing I am fully aware of the rules regarding virtual logging!

 

if they are willing to let them relog the coin then what was the point

of deleting them in the 1st place

why were they not just left on there

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No, They have already seen this coin, the owner is not handing out the tracking # to everybody, just those who logged it previously. And I resent your implication of me doing such a thing I am fully aware of the rules regarding virtual logging!

 

You suggested they log a discovery with a "current date", i.e. not the actual date they saw the coin. This would make it a virtual log.

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You know the answer to all of this is to just request to discover the coin again, Ask the new owner that since you discovered this coin in the past, if they would not mind you discovering it again with a current date. That would make everyone happy.

 

Not possible, unless of course the coin owner is willing to meet with all of the people who had their logs deleted. Otherwise, it's nothing more than a virtual log, likely to get the coin locked completely. Hopefully not a practice that you're using with any of your many geocoins.

No, They have already seen this coin, the owner is not handing out the tracking # to everybody, just those who logged it previously. And I resent your implication of me doing such a thing I am fully aware of the rules regarding virtual logging!

 

if they are willing to let them relog the coin then what was the point

of deleting them in the 1st place

why were they not just left on there

Because, The new owner has initiated a new activation date and and new starting point, so they don't want logs predating the activation. That's why. simple really

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RULES AND REGUALTIONS ERODE FREEDOM - I will be definitely voting NO on this if it comes to that!

 

Finally something that I agree with you about.

 

However, unfortunately, the time comes for rules and regulations when free people start doing things that degrade the lives of others. In this case, you exercising your freedom is causing other people to lose something that they clearly care a great deal about. If you were to use your freedom more responsibly, perhaps the need for rules and regulations wouldn't be coming to fruition at this point.

 

You gain nothing by deleting logs. Absolutely nothing. Your coin is worth nothing more, nothing less. It is still worth what it was worth when you bought it with the logs. Others, however, lose icons, discoveries, miles, etc. when you delete logs. This is one of the many, many reasons that have been brought to light in this very thread as to why what you and your friends are doing is wrong and irresponsible.

You'd think I caused the world to crash from being in favor of allowing a new coin owner to delete a simple TFT discovery log. Give me a break. Let's get this back into prospective, it is only an Icon, it does not affect your life in any way.

 

 

Weird, I was thinking the same thing. Only, rather than an icon, I was thinking that it was only a couple of discoveries, it does not affect your life in any way. So yes, let's please do get this back into perspective. What is the big deal about a few meaningless discoveries that do not affect your life in any way?

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No, They have already seen this coin, the owner is not handing out the tracking # to everybody, just those who logged it previously. And I resent your implication of me doing such a thing I am fully aware of the rules regarding virtual logging!

 

You suggested they log a discovery with a "current date", i.e. not the actual date they saw the coin. This would make it a virtual log.

Not in my opinion - they saw the coin, does not matter that they log it now.

 

If it is only the icon they are worried about, would not matter the date of their log of discovery.

 

The new owner is happy because the discover log is a current date and the previous discoverer is happy cause he has his icon back. every body wins!

Edited by GeoMinions
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No, They have already seen this coin, the owner is not handing out the tracking # to everybody, just those who logged it previously. And I resent your implication of me doing such a thing I am fully aware of the rules regarding virtual logging!

 

You suggested they log a discovery with a "current date", i.e. not the actual date they saw the coin. This would make it a virtual log.

Not in my opinion - they saw the coin, does not matter that they log it now.

 

If it is only the icon they are worried about, would not matter the date of their log of discovery.

 

The new owner is happy because the discover log is a current date and the previous discoverer is happy cause he has his icon back. every body wins!

 

Nah. That's still a virtual log. I think we ought to go ahead and give getting a rule instated a shot instead.

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RULES AND REGUALTIONS ERODE FREEDOM - I will be definitely voting NO on this if it comes to that!

 

Finally something that I agree with you about.

 

However, unfortunately, the time comes for rules and regulations when free people start doing things that degrade the lives of others. In this case, you exercising your freedom is causing other people to lose something that they clearly care a great deal about. If you were to use your freedom more responsibly, perhaps the need for rules and regulations wouldn't be coming to fruition at this point.

 

You gain nothing by deleting logs. Absolutely nothing. Your coin is worth nothing more, nothing less. It is still worth what it was worth when you bought it with the logs. Others, however, lose icons, discoveries, miles, etc. when you delete logs. This is one of the many, many reasons that have been brought to light in this very thread as to why what you and your friends are doing is wrong and irresponsible.

You'd think I caused the world to crash from being in favor of allowing a new coin owner to delete a simple TFT discovery log. Give me a break. Let's get this back into prospective, it is only an Icon, it does not affect your life in any way.

 

 

Weird, I was thinking the same thing. Only, rather than an icon, I was thinking that it was only a couple of discoveries, it does not affect your life in any way. So yes, let's please do get this back into perspective. What is the big deal about a few meaningless discoveries that do not affect your life in any way?

 

the thing is unless your the actual coin owner and your the one that deleted the logs you dont know

if the logs that were deleted just said TFT discovery log.

 

but i belive this isnt just about a simple TFT log this is about deleting a log that someone else had discovered the coin either in a cache or at an event.

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RULES AND REGUALTIONS ERODE FREEDOM - I will be definitely voting NO on this if it comes to that!

 

Finally something that I agree with you about.

 

However, unfortunately, the time comes for rules and regulations when free people start doing things that degrade the lives of others. In this case, you exercising your freedom is causing other people to lose something that they clearly care a great deal about. If you were to use your freedom more responsibly, perhaps the need for rules and regulations wouldn't be coming to fruition at this point.

 

You gain nothing by deleting logs. Absolutely nothing. Your coin is worth nothing more, nothing less. It is still worth what it was worth when you bought it with the logs. Others, however, lose icons, discoveries, miles, etc. when you delete logs. This is one of the many, many reasons that have been brought to light in this very thread as to why what you and your friends are doing is wrong and irresponsible.

You'd think I caused the world to crash from being in favor of allowing a new coin owner to delete a simple TFT discovery log. Give me a break. Let's get this back into prospective, it is only an Icon, it does not affect your life in any way.

 

 

Weird, I was thinking the same thing. Only, rather than an icon, I was thinking that it was only a couple of discoveries, it does not affect your life in any way. So yes, let's please do get this back into perspective. What is the big deal about a few meaningless discoveries that do not affect your life in any way?

See post above, logs would predate the activation -

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RULES AND REGUALTIONS ERODE FREEDOM - I will be definitely voting NO on this if it comes to that!

 

Finally something that I agree with you about.

 

However, unfortunately, the time comes for rules and regulations when free people start doing things that degrade the lives of others. In this case, you exercising your freedom is causing other people to lose something that they clearly care a great deal about. If you were to use your freedom more responsibly, perhaps the need for rules and regulations wouldn't be coming to fruition at this point.

 

You gain nothing by deleting logs. Absolutely nothing. Your coin is worth nothing more, nothing less. It is still worth what it was worth when you bought it with the logs. Others, however, lose icons, discoveries, miles, etc. when you delete logs. This is one of the many, many reasons that have been brought to light in this very thread as to why what you and your friends are doing is wrong and irresponsible.

You'd think I caused the world to crash from being in favor of allowing a new coin owner to delete a simple TFT discovery log. Give me a break. Let's get this back into prospective, it is only an Icon, it does not affect your life in any way.

 

 

Weird, I was thinking the same thing. Only, rather than an icon, I was thinking that it was only a couple of discoveries, it does not affect your life in any way. So yes, let's please do get this back into perspective. What is the big deal about a few meaningless discoveries that do not affect your life in any way?

 

the thing is unless your the actual coin owner and your the one that deleted the logs you dont know

if the logs that were deleted just said TFT discovery log.

 

but i belive this isnt just about a simple TFT log this is about deleting a log that someone else had discovered the coin either in a cache or at an event.

well you are incorrect. the logs were discovery logs from an event only. the coin NEVER moved to a cache.

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And you are welcome to debate - that's what this thread is for.

 

I think people latch on to terms.

 

For example, I could pick apart the use of the word "earned" when you said "...honestly earned icon".

What did you do to EARN it? You saw it in a book or in somebody's hand.

That person paid for it and has "earned" the right to do what they want with the logs.

(I'm playing Devil's Advocate here...)

 

As long as the discussion remains civil, there's no reason that this thread cannot/will not continue as an exchange of ideas and opinions.

 

In my personal opinion, gains are only achieved through (civil) disagreement and debate.

 

I "earned" it by honestly seeing, handling (although physically touching isn't always done) and discussing the coin and noting the tracking number down...then posting a log, per the rules of discovering a trackable. Granted, no money exchanges hands and no taxing physical work is involved, but it is earned none the less. Seeing it in a book or in somebody's hand is currently all that is required to "earn" an icon. Does that make my claim on that icon any less than the new owner's claim to have a clean webpage? Because after all, I'm not saying the new owner isn't entitled to the coin that he/she purchased. I'm questioning whether they have the right to a clean webpage that they do not own...and I am still questioning it...

 

And I agree with your personal opinion :)

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i agree its a opinion and noone will change the way they see it.

no reason to get all tore up about it.

 

The part of your statement I bolded is not true. I don't delete logs, but currently hold the opinion that owners should be able to. That isn't a firm opinion, though, and I am reading the various thoughts expressed here with interest because there may be a middle ground that I may ultimately choose to support.

 

Even with issues I have firm opinions about, I listen to other points of view. Sometimes a point is made that was not considered previously, and an adjustment to my stand, whether it be slight or major, is warranted.

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GeoMinions, seriously now, do you have anything to say for reasoning that the practice of deleting logs from coins should be allowed other than what you've said already? I've read through your posts, and what I come away with is pretty much something along the lines of "because I don't want them", or "because I can". Are there any other compelling reasons that we should hear about?

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RULES AND REGUALTIONS ERODE FREEDOM - I will be definitely voting NO on this if it comes to that!

 

Finally something that I agree with you about.

 

However, unfortunately, the time comes for rules and regulations when free people start doing things that degrade the lives of others. In this case, you exercising your freedom is causing other people to lose something that they clearly care a great deal about. If you were to use your freedom more responsibly, perhaps the need for rules and regulations wouldn't be coming to fruition at this point.

 

You gain nothing by deleting logs. Absolutely nothing. Your coin is worth nothing more, nothing less. It is still worth what it was worth when you bought it with the logs. Others, however, lose icons, discoveries, miles, etc. when you delete logs. This is one of the many, many reasons that have been brought to light in this very thread as to why what you and your friends are doing is wrong and irresponsible.

You'd think I caused the world to crash from being in favor of allowing a new coin owner to delete a simple TFT discovery log. Give me a break. Let's get this back into prospective, it is only an Icon, it does not affect your life in any way.

 

 

Weird, I was thinking the same thing. Only, rather than an icon, I was thinking that it was only a couple of discoveries, it does not affect your life in any way. So yes, let's please do get this back into perspective. What is the big deal about a few meaningless discoveries that do not affect your life in any way?

 

the thing is unless your the actual coin owner and your the one that deleted the logs you dont know

if the logs that were deleted just said TFT discovery log.

 

but i belive this isnt just about a simple TFT log this is about deleting a log that someone else had discovered the coin either in a cache or at an event.

well you are incorrect. the logs were discovery logs from an event only. the coin NEVER moved to a cache.

 

my point was unless YOU actually deleted them your self then YOU dont know that the logs that were deleted were discovery only. (talking about the logs thats this thread was started for)

because the logs were deleted before this thread started

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i agree its a opinion and noone will change the way they see it.

no reason to get all tore up about it.

 

The part of your statement I bolded is not true. I don't delete logs, but currently hold the opinion that owners should be able to. That isn't a firm opinion, though, and I am reading the various thoughts expressed here with interest because there may be a middle ground that I may ultimately choose to support.

 

Even with issues I have firm opinions about, I listen to other points of view. Sometimes a point is made that was not considered previously, and an adjustment to my stand, whether it be slight or major, is warranted.

 

i do agree but i was talking about when 2 people have 2 opinions most of the time neither one will change there point of view.

but you are correct and i stand corrected

thanks

Edited by mlrs1996
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RULES AND REGUALTIONS ERODE FREEDOM - I will be definitely voting NO on this if it comes to that!

 

Finally something that I agree with you about.

 

However, unfortunately, the time comes for rules and regulations when free people start doing things that degrade the lives of others. In this case, you exercising your freedom is causing other people to lose something that they clearly care a great deal about. If you were to use your freedom more responsibly, perhaps the need for rules and regulations wouldn't be coming to fruition at this point.

 

You gain nothing by deleting logs. Absolutely nothing. Your coin is worth nothing more, nothing less. It is still worth what it was worth when you bought it with the logs. Others, however, lose icons, discoveries, miles, etc. when you delete logs. This is one of the many, many reasons that have been brought to light in this very thread as to why what you and your friends are doing is wrong and irresponsible.

You'd think I caused the world to crash from being in favor of allowing a new coin owner to delete a simple TFT discovery log. Give me a break. Let's get this back into prospective, it is only an Icon, it does not affect your life in any way.

 

 

Weird, I was thinking the same thing. Only, rather than an icon, I was thinking that it was only a couple of discoveries, it does not affect your life in any way. So yes, let's please do get this back into perspective. What is the big deal about a few meaningless discoveries that do not affect your life in any way?

 

the thing is unless your the actual coin owner and your the one that deleted the logs you dont know

if the logs that were deleted just said TFT discovery log.

 

but i belive this isnt just about a simple TFT log this is about deleting a log that someone else had discovered the coin either in a cache or at an event.

well you are incorrect. the logs were discovery logs from an event only. the coin NEVER moved to a cache.

 

my point was unless YOU actually deleted them your self then YOU dont know that the logs that were deleted were discovery only. (talking about the logs thats this thread was started for)

because the logs were deleted before this thread started

According to Eartha Above, they were only discovery logs

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GeoMinions, seriously now, do you have anything to say for reasoning that the practice of deleting logs from coins should be allowed other than what you've said already? I've read through your posts, and what I come away with is pretty much something along the lines of "because I don't want them", or "because I can". Are there any other compelling reasons that we should hear about?

 

I have tried to explain it to you and everybody else.

If I buy or trade for a pre-activated coin I first check to see how many logs are on it, I will ask the previous owner what kind of logs are on it. If there are none, which is what I prefer, I am more interested and if there only a few discovery logs then I will consider purchasing it. I like coins that I can start out anew, no logs so if I can delete a few discovery logs to make the coin mine then I will do it. I set a new start date on the coin and a new place of origin and erase it's history. I then hold onto the coin for awhile before releasing a proxy.

I do have a few coins that I have purchased that already have proxies and are traveling, I knew this when I bought them and would not erase their history because they have a real history, not just one single event with a few discoveries.

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You know the answer to all of this is to just request to discover the coin again, Ask the new owner that since you discovered this coin in the past, if they would not mind you discovering it again with a current date. That would make everyone happy.

 

Not possible, unless of course the coin owner is willing to meet with all of the people who had their logs deleted. Otherwise, it's nothing more than a virtual log, likely to get the coin locked completely. Hopefully not a practice that you're using with any of your many geocoins.

No, They have already seen this coin, the owner is not handing out the tracking # to everybody, just those who logged it previously. And I resent your implication of me doing such a thing I am fully aware of the rules regarding virtual logging!

 

if they are willing to let them relog the coin then what was the point

of deleting them in the 1st place

why were they not just left on there

Because, The new owner has initiated a new activation date and and new starting point, so they don't want logs predating the activation. That's why. simple really

I say don't be so cheap and buy unactivatied coins and you wouldn't have any drama. :rolleyes::laughing:

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GeoMinions, seriously now, do you have anything to say for reasoning that the practice of deleting logs from coins should be allowed other than what you've said already? I've read through your posts, and what I come away with is pretty much something along the lines of "because I don't want them", or "because I can". Are there any other compelling reasons that we should hear about?

 

I have tried to explain it to you and everybody else.

If I buy or trade for a pre-activated coin I first check to see how many logs are on it, I will ask the previous owner what kind of logs are on it. If there are none, which is what I prefer, I am more interested and if there only a few discovery logs then I will consider purchasing it. I like coins that I can start out anew, no logs so if I can delete a few discovery logs to make the coin mine then I will do it. I set a new start date on the coin and a new place of origin and erase it's history. I then hold onto the coin for awhile before releasing a proxy.

I do have a few coins that I have purchased that already have proxies and are traveling, I knew this when I bought them and would not erase their history because they have a real history, not just one single event with a few discoveries.

 

Ok, I have read this three times now, to make sure I understand it.

 

Now, please answer this: what is the problem with the coin having prior discover logs? How does that affect the way the geocoin is perceived, the way it travels, or the way that it is discovered? Why do you want them gone so badly that you are willing to anger and/or upset those whose logs get deleted, prompting a discussion the magnitude of one that this has become?

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GeoMinions, seriously now, do you have anything to say for reasoning that the practice of deleting logs from coins should be allowed other than what you've said already? I've read through your posts, and what I come away with is pretty much something along the lines of "because I don't want them", or "because I can". Are there any other compelling reasons that we should hear about?

 

I don't know if it is compelling enough, but here is one reason that you may not have thought about. Geocoin TBWZGB

 

9Key originally owned and activated this coin. He stored it in an archived geocache, Poker Face. Avroair aquired the coin and sold it to me. I dropped it at an event and now it is happily exploring Germany. The history shows over 8,000 miles with movement beginning with drop #1 in Texas.

 

However, this coin did not arrive in California from Texas via geocaching. Those 1000 miles were actually earned through the US Postal Service. And this coin began its geocaching journey in California.

 

Now, I love the coin's history and would not delete the logs. But because I did not, its history is not accurate. I can understand if a different owner in my place may have chosen to delete those logs to have the miles and travel reflect accurately in the geocoin's history.

Edited by aka Momster
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<snip>

I set a new start date on the coin and a new place of origin and erase it's history. I then hold onto the coin for awhile before releasing a proxy.

I do have a few coins that I have purchased that already have proxies and are traveling, I knew this when I bought them and would not erase their history because they have a real history, not just one single event with a few discoveries.

 

If I am not badly mistaken, releasing a proxy without having ever released the original coin first, IS actually against Groundspeak rules.

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GeoMinions, seriously now, do you have anything to say for reasoning that the practice of deleting logs from coins should be allowed other than what you've said already? I've read through your posts, and what I come away with is pretty much something along the lines of "because I don't want them", or "because I can". Are there any other compelling reasons that we should hear about?

 

I have tried to explain it to you and everybody else.

If I buy or trade for a pre-activated coin I first check to see how many logs are on it, I will ask the previous owner what kind of logs are on it. If there are none, which is what I prefer, I am more interested and if there only a few discovery logs then I will consider purchasing it. I like coins that I can start out anew, no logs so if I can delete a few discovery logs to make the coin mine then I will do it. I set a new start date on the coin and a new place of origin and erase it's history. I then hold onto the coin for awhile before releasing a proxy.

I do have a few coins that I have purchased that already have proxies and are traveling, I knew this when I bought them and would not erase their history because they have a real history, not just one single event with a few discoveries.

A proxy with real history... Now that's funny. It's not even the real coin. I still do not see a reason to delete previous discoveries. A discovery is a discovery either in a cache or an event. Your're cheating cachers on a ligetimate discovery and their icon thingy. Makes no sense at all.

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Yup I started this thread and yup it was just a discovery of a coin that was brought to a cache event by a friend of mine.

 

DJ. Rock created a very nice wooden display case for his collection. Funny thing is I was a new cacher at the time and this was my first event where there were really any coins. I attended the event and logged discoveries on quite a few coins that day. After that I became quite addicted to collecting and have purchased many coins and sent out a few on missions. I no longer have the finances to buy a lot of coins, but I do stay active in the hobby and will admit to collecting discoveries and icons as I appreciate the artwork put into coin icons just as much as the coins,

 

Now one concern I have is that my thread began with my stating i was annoyed with a log deletion and quickly progressed into a discussion of whether it was appropriate for a log to be deleted. I don't think so and I have presented my thoughts on this several times in the thread. What I find amusing is the number of times the brevity of my log or the fact that it had no miles is discounted and used as an argument against my position.

 

I believe these responses lie in the logical falicy category of character assasination in that if you don't like my argument attack me for a boring log or just an icon collector and setup a way to avoid the debate by disregarding the person who made the argument

 

I would be much more prone to listening to some of the counter arguments if they were well thought out responses rather than simple dismissals and as FSM mentioned earlier, this discussion is not about a single coin or log but the practice in general

 

So I vote for continuing the discussion but let's make it about the entire practice

Edited by teamhaynes
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GeoMinions, seriously now, do you have anything to say for reasoning that the practice of deleting logs from coins should be allowed other than what you've said already? I've read through your posts, and what I come away with is pretty much something along the lines of "because I don't want them", or "because I can". Are there any other compelling reasons that we should hear about?

 

I don't know if it is compelling enough, but here is one reason that you may not have thought about. Geocoin TBWZGB

 

9Key originally owned and activated this coin. He stored it in an archived geocache, Poker Face. Avroair aquired the coin and sold it to me. I dropped it at an event and now it is happily exploring Germany. The history shows over 8,000 miles with movement beginning with drop #1 in Texas.

 

However, this coin did not arrive in California from Texas via geocaching. Those 1000 miles were actually earned through the US Postal Service. And this coin began its geocaching journey in California.

 

Now, I love the coin's history and would not delete the logs. But because I did not, its history is not accurate. I can understand if a different owner in my place may have chosen to delete those logs to have the miles and travel reflect accurately in the geocoin's history.

I didn't realize there were ways to actually earn miles. Once the coin is active and moving the miles should be calculated no matter how the coin is moved. The coin went to one cacher and then to another, thus collecting the miles along the way. So the history is correct. Are you saying if I gave my father-in-law(not a cacher) one of my coins to drop in NC that the miles would be incorrect. Or are you saying that a "cacher" has to move the coin?

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And if the log owner did not receive a log deletion notice they would not even be aware of it being archived.

 

While I do not have a dog in this fight, I have enjoyed those post that are well though-out and clearly conveyed. I do take issue with the above statement because I do keep my stats using GSAK among other tools and would certianly notice if one of my unique trackable "finds" were to suddenly vanish. While I do have several "discovers", I take more joy in actually moving GCs and TBs along their way; The icons are a pleasant bonus.

 

As for the used car analogy, I agree New vs Used = Unactivated vs Activated. Therefore, deleting the previous logs = rolling back the mileage on the used car to presumably increase its worth.

 

However, that's a false "worth". The car/coin still has the mileage/history...it's just been hidden.

 

Exactly my point (and why I used the term presumably). Anyone who pays a little more for an activated "no logs" coin is obviously not thinking clearly, since logs are so easily "rolled-back".

Apparently you have not read the previous posts, this coin had NO Mileage, it had not traveled it was only seen at one event and I as I have stated before those are the only type of logs I delete and the coin was never handled by anyone, so no vested interest. There is no mileage erased at all. as the new owner I like having this option and I believe I have the right to get rid of these 'boring' logs.

 

"No Mileage does not equal No History. What you call a "boring log" may be an important milestone to somebody.

 

Just because you have the "right" to do something does not mean it is the right thing to do.

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GeoMinions, seriously now, do you have anything to say for reasoning that the practice of deleting logs from coins should be allowed other than what you've said already? I've read through your posts, and what I come away with is pretty much something along the lines of "because I don't want them", or "because I can". Are there any other compelling reasons that we should hear about?

 

I don't know if it is compelling enough, but here is one reason that you may not have thought about. Geocoin TBWZGB

 

9Key originally owned and activated this coin. He stored it in an archived geocache, Poker Face. Avroair aquired the coin and sold it to me. I dropped it at an event and now it is happily exploring Germany. The history shows over 8,000 miles with movement beginning with drop #1 in Texas.

 

However, this coin did not arrive in California from Texas via geocaching. Those 1000 miles were actually earned through the US Postal Service. And this coin began its geocaching journey in California.

 

Now, I love the coin's history and would not delete the logs. But because I did not, its history is not accurate. I can understand if a different owner in my place may have chosen to delete those logs to have the miles and travel reflect accurately in the geocoin's history.

I didn't realize there were ways to actually earn miles. Once the coin is active and moving the miles should be calculated no matter how the coin is moved. The coin went to one cacher and then to another, thus collecting the miles along the way. So the history is correct. Are you saying if I gave my father-in-law(not a cacher) one of my coins to drop in NC that the miles would be incorrect. Or are you saying that a "cacher" has to move the coin?

 

If I activate a coin, dip it into a cache here, then mail it to someone in Europe, no. I do not consider those miles to be a legitimate part of the journey mileage.

 

If I activate a coin, dip it into a cache here, then hand it to another geocacher or carry it on a plane myself, to Europe, then yes. I consider it to be a part of the coin's journey.

 

To me, a trackable's travels should be from cache/geocacher to cache/geocacher. Otherwise, we may as well just mail them all to complete their missions. It certainly would be easier! :D

 

Edit: To remove confusing bit. Exceptions would be some forum missions etc. have different types of mission goals that I would, in some cases, consider legitimate miles to the intended travels for individual coins.

Edited by aka Momster
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