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Owner wiped out all logs for geocoin


teamhaynes
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It is probably because of the fact that geocoins are collectible that people want to delete logs on geocoins they purchase used. Some people think that activating a coin lessens its value. Others probably feel that having logs may lessen the value.

We encourage people NOT to delete the logs on TBs and coins when a copy is released, in place of the lost original. But geocoins, being collectible, are often sold, and resold, and you can't then control what the next owner will do with their purchase. They have no connection, or ties, to you, the previous logger. They bought something and like a used car, they want to shine it up, make it look new again.

I'm sorry to say, it's one of those Catch 22 situations. Someone is going to be unhappy. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

 

+1

I have purchased MANY pre activated geocoins, If the coin has logs on it showing it has been moved by other Geocachers and has gained miles, then I will leave the logs, but if the coin was only taken to events and discovered, well those logs get deleted so that I can start the coin on a whole new journey with a new activation date and a new starting point. As the Coin owner, I like having that option and if this option is taken away, well I would not seek buying older coins anymore, to me that would devalue them even more then they already are.

 

The adoption should lock all previous logs.

By not allowing the new coin owner to make the coin their own by getting rid of the old logs, would kill the incentive for buying preactivated coins. I know I would not buy anymore.

I think that when a coin is adopted over to a new owner, the new owner should have the option to remove All Previous Logs if they wish.

 

I am in the opposite camp. I have bought several activated coins and wouldn't dream of deleting the logs. They are the fingerprint that makes each coin unique

I have purchased MANY pre activated geocoins, If the coin has logs on it showing it has been moved by other Geocachers and has gained miles, then I will leave the logs, but if the coin was only taken to events and discovered, well those logs get deleted so that I can start the coin on a whole new journey with a new activation date and a new starting point. As the Coin owner, I like having that option and if this option is taken away, well I would not seek buying older coins anymore, to me that would devalue them even more then they already are.

 

Your logic doesn't make any sense. If someone moves it, the log stays. If someone sees the coin at an event, the log goes. Why?

 

It's not going to hurt my feelings if you don't buy activated geocoins anymore, so your using that as a point in favor of allowing deletions of logs on previously owned coins is not going to work over here.

Well Got to say "Your Feelings" don't mean squat to me. When a coin is just 'discovered' the person logging the discovery has not vested any time with it, they just looked at if for a few seconds. When a coin is placed into a cache and then picked up and moved, well that geocacher has a history with it, so those logs will stay, a discovery at an event does not warrant the same consideration.

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So my question then becomes who owns the log.....I mentioned this above, but again, in a system that promotes logging, defines achiements by how many caches, gives put badges for various challenges...the log is the essential method of acknowledging many parts of the experience. Allowing for such an easy removal of legitimate logs seems troublesome

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So my question then becomes who owns the log.....I mentioned this above, but again, in a system that promotes logging, defines achiements by how many caches, gives put badges for various challenges...the log is the essential method of acknowledging many parts of the experience. Allowing for such an easy removal of legitimate logs seems troublesome

This is why Cache logs can not be deleted. Coins are different.

That is why this activity is called Geocaching, and not Geocoining.

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Well Got to say "Your Feelings" don't mean squat to me. When a coin is just 'discovered' the person logging the discovery has not vested any time with it, they just looked at if for a few seconds. When a coin is placed into a cache and then picked up and moved, well that geocacher has a history with it, so those logs will stay, a discovery at an event does not warrant the same consideration.

 

I am not a mod, but I will ask please don't start the attacks..it takes away from the validity of your reasoning.

Edited by teamhaynes
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So my question then becomes who owns the log.....I mentioned this above, but again, in a system that promotes logging, defines achiements by how many caches, gives put badges for various challenges...the log is the essential method of acknowledging many parts of the experience. Allowing for such an easy removal of legitimate logs seems troublesome

This is why Cache logs can not be deleted. Coins are different.

That is why this activity is called Geocaching, and not Geocoining.

I would agree with you if there was a separate and distinct site for geocoins, but they are a merged experience

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well...for those of us who live in America...It's a free Country and so we are free to do what we want with our OWN geocoins! As long as the guidelines allow for deleting old logs on a geocoin then I see no problem with it. It's only an Icon FGS!

 

Your perspective is noted, but as you can see from the many replies from the above thread there are valid arguments for differing perspectives. I disagree with many but will continue a positive productive discussion of this policy or lack thereof

 

Many people have concluded that the guidelines are lacking clarification and even Eartha has referenced that this is a developing Hobby that needs "ironing out". I disagree that the guidelines allow deletion. The system might allow it but the guidelines are unclear or absent with regards to trackables

 

Oh, and geocaching isn't just an American hobby so I think the opinions of a larger community are valuable

Edited by teamhaynes
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So far no one has managed to present a convincing arguement for deleting logs. Like G & C said, deleting the logs doesn't change who has seen or moved the coin. All it does is disappoint someone who may have had to look far and wide and attended many events to add that icon to their list.

 

And why on earth would you think a coin with no logs on it is more valuable than one with logs? Does anyone one really read coin logs? Does anyone write interesting coin logs? I try to write interesting logs for interesting caches, but trackables just get something like, "Picked up, will move it along soon."

 

Update the Mission, rewrite the Description, change the Name, all this makes sense.

But deleting logs? I don't get it.

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So far no one has managed to present a convincing arguement for deleting logs. Like G & C said, deleting the logs doesn't change who has seen or moved the coin. All it does is disappoint someone who may have had to look far and wide and attended many events to add that icon to their list.

 

And why on earth would you think a coin with no logs on it is more valuable than one with logs? Does anyone one really read coin logs? Does anyone write interesting coin logs? I try to write interesting logs for interesting caches, but trackables just get something like, "Picked up, will move it along soon."

 

Update the Mission, rewrite the Description, change the Name, all this makes sense.

But deleting logs? I don't get it.

 

Well, if you don't get it, then it can't be explained to you.

Check Ebay, non-activated coins sell for more.

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My solution: Lock the logs after 2 weeks. If you don't care to do something about a log in that time period then it ought to stand. If Groundspeak did this the whole issue would be forgotten in a matter of months.

 

It's rather silly to me to delete logs and pretend you have a new coin. Even more so to pretend a coin with no logs is somehow better than one that has been discovered.

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My solution: Lock the logs after 2 weeks. If you don't care to do something about a log in that time period then it ought to stand. If Groundspeak did this the whole issue would be forgotten in a matter of months.

 

It's rather silly to me to delete logs and pretend you have a new coin. Even more so to pretend a coin with no logs is somehow better than one that has been discovered.

 

It may seem silly to you, but I think it's silly to think deleting a coin log is such a big deal, it is just an icon, Who Cares!!!

 

Circulated - Uncirculated

Brand new vehicle - Used Vehicle

'

Tell me, which has more value, which is sought after more

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So far no one has managed to present a convincing arguement for deleting logs. Like G & C said, deleting the logs doesn't change who has seen or moved the coin. All it does is disappoint someone who may have had to look far and wide and attended many events to add that icon to their list.

 

And why on earth would you think a coin with no logs on it is more valuable than one with logs? Does anyone one really read coin logs? Does anyone write interesting coin logs? I try to write interesting logs for interesting caches, but trackables just get something like, "Picked up, will move it along soon."

 

Update the Mission, rewrite the Description, change the Name, all this makes sense.

But deleting logs? I don't get it.

 

Well, if you don't get it, then it can't be explained to you.

Check Ebay, non-activated coins sell for more.

 

Ah yes, two old favorites! The old "It can't be explained to you" and "It's more valuable!" canards.

Maybe the reason it can't be explained is because it makes no sense! Your second line explains the difference in desireability between activated and unactivated coins. I don't put much stock in it, but I understand it.

 

But we aren't discussing activated vs unactivated coins, and you still have not explained why an activated coin with no logs is more valuable than an activated coin with logs. I contend that it isn't. I have seen those listings on ebay stating that a coin is activated but has no logs and I seriously doubt that buyers care about that. It is meaningless. It tells the prospective buyer nothing about the coin. Especially since logs can be deleted at will.

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My solution: Lock the logs after 2 weeks. If you don't care to do something about a log in that time period then it ought to stand. If Groundspeak did this the whole issue would be forgotten in a matter of months.

 

It's rather silly to me to delete logs and pretend you have a new coin. Even more so to pretend a coin with no logs is somehow better than one that has been discovered.

 

It may seem silly to you, but I think it's silly to think deleting a coin log is such a big deal, it is just an icon, Who Cares!!!

 

Circulated - Uncirculated

Brand new vehicle - Used Vehicle

'

Tell me, which has more value, which is sought after more

 

Two things here:

 

1)Discovered logs do not mean the coin has "circulated". Quite the contrary. Coins in collections tend to be very well taken care of. That's kind of the point of collections. There's no reason for a coin with a hundred discoveries to be valued any less than an activated coin with no discoveries.

 

2) The new car vs. used car analogy applies in activated vs. unactivated coins. Once a coin is activated you've driven it off the lot and -Bam!- there's your depreciation. The presence or lack of logs has nothing to do with it.

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It is probably because of the fact that geocoins are collectible that people want to delete logs on geocoins they purchase used. Some people think that activating a coin lessens its value. Others probably feel that having logs may lessen the value.

We encourage people NOT to delete the logs on TBs and coins when a copy is released, in place of the lost original. But geocoins, being collectible, are often sold, and resold, and you can't then control what the next owner will do with their purchase. They have no connection, or ties, to you, the previous logger. They bought something and like a used car, they want to shine it up, make it look new again.

I'm sorry to say, it's one of those Catch 22 situations. Someone is going to be unhappy. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

 

+1

 

The adoption should lock all previous logs.

By not allowing the new coin owner to make the coin their own by getting rid of the old logs, would kill the incentive for buying preactivated coins. I know I would not buy anymore.

I think that when a coin is adopted over to a new owner, the new owner should have the option to remove All Previous Logs if they wish.

 

If you don't want the log don't by actavated coins! Not a problem.

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My solution: Lock the logs after 2 weeks. If you don't care to do something about a log in that time period then it ought to stand. If Groundspeak did this the whole issue would be forgotten in a matter of months.

 

It's rather silly to me to delete logs and pretend you have a new coin. Even more so to pretend a coin with no logs is somehow better than one that has been discovered.

 

It may seem silly to you, but I think it's silly to think deleting a coin log is such a big deal, it is just an icon, Who Cares!!!

 

Circulated - Uncirculated

Brand new vehicle - Used Vehicle

'

Tell me, which has more value, which is sought after more

 

They are just a log Who Cares!!! And there will be a log of when you took over ownership of the coin.

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I own 2 caches in which I put a few coins that should stay in those caches. They were to be discovered, not to be moved.

The thought behind it was that those coins were a bonus for those who finished the caches. They were a 37 and 25 kilometre walk.

Mind you, this was about 6 years ago when coins and their icons were kind of rare.

I put pieces of paper in the cache to make it easier for them because after a long hike, you might not want to note these small letters.

There were of course people who didn't want to log the coins because they didn't move them. And some never logged any trackables.

But by many it was appreciated.

What if I would sell these coins? Would you as the next owner get rid of the logs?

Not me. Not even if the log consisted of only a dot. Because they sometimes did refer to the coins in their cache logs.

So the logs are part of the history of the coin AND the caches. And discover logs could be part of an event log.

I strongly feel that coinlogs should be looked at the same as cachelogs. And I hope GS feels the same.

When you want to buy an older coin without history, look for an unactivated coin.

By the way, I don't think activated are worth less then unactivated ones.

The value of a coin is determined by what someone pays for it.

Part of that value is the tracking number. Coins with tracking numbers are (most of the times) more expensive then those without.

But the trackingnumber is a service provided by GS. So it may have Terms of Use. Maybe those ToU should be brought to attention when activating a coin and one should agree to them. Just like submitting a cache to the reviewers.

That way logs may be protected. Also when being adopted. And perhaps they should automaticaly be locked after a period of time.

So let's request this feature...

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So far no one has managed to present a convincing arguement for deleting logs. Like G & C said, deleting the logs doesn't change who has seen or moved the coin. All it does is disappoint someone who may have had to look far and wide and attended many events to add that icon to their list.

 

And why on earth would you think a coin with no logs on it is more valuable than one with logs? Does anyone one really read coin logs? Does anyone write interesting coin logs? I try to write interesting logs for interesting caches, but trackables just get something like, "Picked up, will move it along soon."

 

Update the Mission, rewrite the Description, change the Name, all this makes sense.

But deleting logs? I don't get it.

 

Well, if you don't get it, then it can't be explained to you.

Check Ebay, non-activated coins sell for more.

 

Ah yes, two old favorites! The old "It can't be explained to you" and "It's more valuable!" canards.

Maybe the reason it can't be explained is because it makes no sense! Your second line explains the difference in desireability between activated and unactivated coins. I don't put much stock in it, but I understand it.

 

But we aren't discussing activated vs unactivated coins, and you still have not explained why an activated coin with no logs is more valuable than an activated coin with logs. I contend that it isn't. I have seen those listings on ebay stating that a coin is activated but has no logs and I seriously doubt that buyers care about that. It is meaningless. It tells the prospective buyer nothing about the coin. Especially since logs can be deleted at will.

An Activated coin has a history to it, and unactivated has a clean slate. I know when I seek out coins on Ebay or cointracking I prefer coins with NO LOGS activated or not. And I know I can't be the only one.

Coins that you purchase that have logs on them have a history that you were not a part of. I prefer starting a coin over with a clean record because I reactivate with the date I receive the coin so I don't want logs on it that predate the activation. So if I find a geocoin for sale that is preactivated but has no logs, thats a bonus.

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My solution: Lock the logs after 2 weeks. If you don't care to do something about a log in that time period then it ought to stand. If Groundspeak did this the whole issue would be forgotten in a matter of months.

 

It's rather silly to me to delete logs and pretend you have a new coin. Even more so to pretend a coin with no logs is somehow better than one that has been discovered.

 

It may seem silly to you, but I think it's silly to think deleting a coin log is such a big deal, it is just an icon, Who Cares!!!

 

Circulated - Uncirculated

Brand new vehicle - Used Vehicle

'

Tell me, which has more value, which is sought after more

 

They are just a log Who Cares!!! And there will be a log of when you took over ownership of the coin.

I delete ALL LOGS, including the ownership transfer.

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I own 2 caches in which I put a few coins that should stay in those caches. They were to be discovered, not to be moved.

The thought behind it was that those coins were a bonus for those who finished the caches. They were a 37 and 25 kilometre walk.

Mind you, this was about 6 years ago when coins and their icons were kind of rare.

I put pieces of paper in the cache to make it easier for them because after a long hike, you might not want to note these small letters.

There were of course people who didn't want to log the coins because they didn't move them. And some never logged any trackables.

But by many it was appreciated.

What if I would sell these coins? Would you as the next owner get rid of the logs?

Not me. Not even if the log consisted of only a dot. Because they sometimes did refer to the coins in their cache logs.

So the logs are part of the history of the coin AND the caches. And discover logs could be part of an event log.

I strongly feel that coinlogs should be looked at the same as cachelogs. And I hope GS feels the same.

When you want to buy an older coin without history, look for an unactivated coin.

By the way, I don't think activated are worth less then unactivated ones.

The value of a coin is determined by what someone pays for it.

Part of that value is the tracking number. Coins with tracking numbers are (most of the times) more expensive then those without.

But the trackingnumber is a service provided by GS. So it may have Terms of Use. Maybe those ToU should be brought to attention when activating a coin and one should agree to them. Just like submitting a cache to the reviewers.

That way logs may be protected. Also when being adopted. And perhaps they should automaticaly be locked after a period of time.

So let's request this feature...

TOTALLY in disagreement. If I purchase an activated coin I want the CHOICE to delete previous logs and I do not think that anyone should be able to take that choice away. I am the owner, it is my property I should be able to do with it what I want - including cleaning it's history.

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So far no one has managed to present a convincing arguement for deleting logs. Like G & C said, deleting the logs doesn't change who has seen or moved the coin. All it does is disappoint someone who may have had to look far and wide and attended many events to add that icon to their list.

 

And why on earth would you think a coin with no logs on it is more valuable than one with logs? Does anyone one really read coin logs? Does anyone write interesting coin logs? I try to write interesting logs for interesting caches, but trackables just get something like, "Picked up, will move it along soon."

 

Update the Mission, rewrite the Description, change the Name, all this makes sense.

But deleting logs? I don't get it.

 

Well, if you don't get it, then it can't be explained to you.

Check Ebay, non-activated coins sell for more.

 

Ah yes, two old favorites! The old "It can't be explained to you" and "It's more valuable!" canards.

Maybe the reason it can't be explained is because it makes no sense! Your second line explains the difference in desireability between activated and unactivated coins. I don't put much stock in it, but I understand it.

 

But we aren't discussing activated vs unactivated coins, and you still have not explained why an activated coin with no logs is more valuable than an activated coin with logs. I contend that it isn't. I have seen those listings on ebay stating that a coin is activated but has no logs and I seriously doubt that buyers care about that. It is meaningless. It tells the prospective buyer nothing about the coin. Especially since logs can be deleted at will.

An Activated coin has a history to it, and unactivated has a clean slate. I know when I seek out coins on Ebay or cointracking I prefer coins with NO LOGS activated or not. And I know I can't be the only one.

Coins that you purchase that have logs on them have a history that you were not a part of. I prefer starting a coin over with a clean record because I reactivate with the date I receive the coin so I don't want logs on it that predate the activation. So if I find a geocoin for sale that is preactivated but has no logs, thats a bonus.

 

And that's the beauty of it all.

 

How sad to want to rewrite history to just include oneself. But in the end, it doesn't change the history. Those people who discovered the coin still saw it, maybe handled it, maybe enjoyed, it maybe didn't. Maybe they thought it plain or perhaps they thought it wonderously beautiful. Why erase them?

 

We can't own every coin out there. But through our discoveries we can (and do) keep a record of them.

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So far no one has managed to present a convincing arguement for deleting logs. Like G & C said, deleting the logs doesn't change who has seen or moved the coin. All it does is disappoint someone who may have had to look far and wide and attended many events to add that icon to their list.

 

And why on earth would you think a coin with no logs on it is more valuable than one with logs? Does anyone one really read coin logs? Does anyone write interesting coin logs? I try to write interesting logs for interesting caches, but trackables just get something like, "Picked up, will move it along soon."

 

Update the Mission, rewrite the Description, change the Name, all this makes sense.

But deleting logs? I don't get it.

 

Well, if you don't get it, then it can't be explained to you.

Check Ebay, non-activated coins sell for more.

 

Ah yes, two old favorites! The old "It can't be explained to you" and "It's more valuable!" canards.

Maybe the reason it can't be explained is because it makes no sense! Your second line explains the difference in desireability between activated and unactivated coins. I don't put much stock in it, but I understand it.

 

But we aren't discussing activated vs unactivated coins, and you still have not explained why an activated coin with no logs is more valuable than an activated coin with logs. I contend that it isn't. I have seen those listings on ebay stating that a coin is activated but has no logs and I seriously doubt that buyers care about that. It is meaningless. It tells the prospective buyer nothing about the coin. Especially since logs can be deleted at will.

An Activated coin has a history to it, and unactivated has a clean slate. I know when I seek out coins on Ebay or cointracking I prefer coins with NO LOGS activated or not. And I know I can't be the only one.

Coins that you purchase that have logs on them have a history that you were not a part of. I prefer starting a coin over with a clean record because I reactivate with the date I receive the coin so I don't want logs on it that predate the activation. So if I find a geocoin for sale that is preactivated but has no logs, thats a bonus.

 

what does it matter if you are going to delete the logs anyhow? it shouldn't matter if you have no logs or a thousand on it...

 

having said that, I have deleted some logs on coins I have purchased that were pre-activated, however I only do it to clean up the coins page... I never delete "discovered" logs or logs where it has been "dropped" into an event to add milage... I only delete "retrieved from" logs and unnecessary notes... to delete anything else only deletes the coins history... you never know, I would hate to delete a discovery log from someone that ends up famous 20 years from now....

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My solution: Lock the logs after 2 weeks. If you don't care to do something about a log in that time period then it ought to stand. If Groundspeak did this the whole issue would be forgotten in a matter of months.

 

It's rather silly to me to delete logs and pretend you have a new coin. Even more so to pretend a coin with no logs is somehow better than one that has been discovered.

 

It may seem silly to you, but I think it's silly to think deleting a coin log is such a big deal, it is just an icon, Who Cares!!!

 

Circulated - Uncirculated

Brand new vehicle - Used Vehicle

'

Tell me, which has more value, which is sought after more

 

They are just a log Who Cares!!! And there will be a log of when you took over ownership of the coin.

I delete ALL LOGS, including the ownership transfer.

 

You prove the point, a coin that is unactivated or with no logs is worth more. That is the cost the should be paid by the activation or allowing the coin to be discovered.

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My solution: Lock the logs after 2 weeks. If you don't care to do something about a log in that time period then it ought to stand. If Groundspeak did this the whole issue would be forgotten in a matter of months.

 

It's rather silly to me to delete logs and pretend you have a new coin. Even more so to pretend a coin with no logs is somehow better than one that has been discovered.

 

It may seem silly to you, but I think it's silly to think deleting a coin log is such a big deal, it is just an icon, Who Cares!!!

 

Circulated - Uncirculated

Brand new vehicle - Used Vehicle

'

Tell me, which has more value, which is sought after more

 

They are just a log Who Cares!!! And there will be a log of when you took over ownership of the coin.

I delete ALL LOGS, including the ownership transfer.

But yet you send out proxies (which I support BTW), so that others can collect the icons of coins in your collection.

Icons are important to many people, and by your actions you recognize that. So why then is it so important that your coins start with a "clean" slate? Why take the icon away from those who discovered the coins under their previous owners?

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what does it matter if you are going to delete the logs anyhow? it shouldn't matter if you have no logs or a thousand on it...

 

having said that, I have deleted some logs on coins I have purchased that were pre-activated, however I only do it to clean up the coins page... I never delete "discovered" logs or logs where it has been "dropped" into an event to add milage... I only delete "retrieved from" logs and unnecessary notes... to delete anything else only deletes the coins history... you never know, I would hate to delete a discovery log from someone that ends up famous 20 years from now....

 

I had that thought too, JB! :lol:

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what does it matter if you are going to delete the logs anyhow? it shouldn't matter if you have no logs or a thousand on it...

 

having said that, I have deleted some logs on coins I have purchased that were pre-activated, however I only do it to clean up the coins page... I never delete "discovered" logs or logs where it has been "dropped" into an event to add milage... I only delete "retrieved from" logs and unnecessary notes... to delete anything else only deletes the coins history... you never know, I would hate to delete a discovery log from someone that ends up famous 20 years from now....

 

I had that thought too, JB! :lol:

Ya, how would you know, no one uses their real names.

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what does it matter if you are going to delete the logs anyhow? it shouldn't matter if you have no logs or a thousand on it...

 

having said that, I have deleted some logs on coins I have purchased that were pre-activated, however I only do it to clean up the coins page... I never delete "discovered" logs or logs where it has been "dropped" into an event to add milage... I only delete "retrieved from" logs and unnecessary notes... to delete anything else only deletes the coins history... you never know, I would hate to delete a discovery log from someone that ends up famous 20 years from now....

 

I had that thought too, JB! :lol:

Ya, how would you know, no one uses their real names.

 

Most we will never know, but somehow we manage to find out some of them. B)

 

Besides, maybe they will be famous under their caching name!

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what does it matter if you are going to delete the logs anyhow? it shouldn't matter if you have no logs or a thousand on it...

 

having said that, I have deleted some logs on coins I have purchased that were pre-activated, however I only do it to clean up the coins page... I never delete "discovered" logs or logs where it has been "dropped" into an event to add milage... I only delete "retrieved from" logs and unnecessary notes... to delete anything else only deletes the coins history... you never know, I would hate to delete a discovery log from someone that ends up famous 20 years from now....

 

I had that thought too, JB! :lol:

Ya, how would you know, no one uses their real names.

 

Most we will never know, but somehow we manage to find out some of them. B)

 

Besides, maybe they will be famous under their caching name!

 

OMG! :blink: Get Real!

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Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I will write an e-mail to the new owner of the coin explaining why he can't just delete logs for a trackable or cache.

It appears this too, is Wrong?!?! <_<

 

Dominos I believe is a volunteer cache reviewer and as such has prerogative to contact members regarding logs caches etc. when he believes there is a problem.

 

Based on his status as a trusted member of the geocaching community it speaks volumes to me that the current policiies are extremely unclear so I would hesitate to label his actions as "wrong".

 

 

well then He overstepped his boundaries.

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OMG! :blink: Get Real!

 

Do you have an actual dog in this fight? And by that I mean, do you really actually care? I see that you do own a trackable, but is your underlying interest simply backing up your buddy GeoMinion, or do you have an actual compelling reason for wanting the ability to attempt to change coins history to your liking?

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I own 2 caches in which I put a few coins that should stay in those caches. They were to be discovered, not to be moved.

The thought behind it was that those coins were a bonus for those who finished the caches. They were a 37 and 25 kilometre walk.

Mind you, this was about 6 years ago when coins and their icons were kind of rare.

I put pieces of paper in the cache to make it easier for them because after a long hike, you might not want to note these small letters.

There were of course people who didn't want to log the coins because they didn't move them. And some never logged any trackables.

But by many it was appreciated.

What if I would sell these coins? Would you as the next owner get rid of the logs?

Not me. Not even if the log consisted of only a dot. Because they sometimes did refer to the coins in their cache logs.

So the logs are part of the history of the coin AND the caches. And discover logs could be part of an event log.

I strongly feel that coinlogs should be looked at the same as cachelogs. And I hope GS feels the same.

When you want to buy an older coin without history, look for an unactivated coin.

By the way, I don't think activated are worth less then unactivated ones.

The value of a coin is determined by what someone pays for it.

Part of that value is the tracking number. Coins with tracking numbers are (most of the times) more expensive then those without.

But the trackingnumber is a service provided by GS. So it may have Terms of Use. Maybe those ToU should be brought to attention when activating a coin and one should agree to them. Just like submitting a cache to the reviewers.

That way logs may be protected. Also when being adopted. And perhaps they should automaticaly be locked after a period of time.

So let's request this feature...

TOTALLY in disagreement. If I purchase an activated coin I want the CHOICE to delete previous logs and I do not think that anyone should be able to take that choice away. I am the owner, it is my property I should be able to do with it what I want - including cleaning it's history.

And I disagree with you. You are the new owner of the coin, but you are not the owner of the log. IMHO, it's just selfish to change everybody's log history and icons by deleting the logs.

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It has been said before and I will say it again, being activated or unactivated does not set the value of these coins. It is down to how much someone, or more to the point, some two people want that coin. I have seen activated coins on ebay go higher than new ones because 2 people really wanted that coin. And the whole idea of erasing its history is stupid. I restore antique furniture and when refinishing an old piece, by law, we have to leave a small section at the back or underneath original and with no change to prove it's age. An antique with some kind of history, weather it has been owned by a famous person or that it has a good family story to go with it makes it more interesting and desirable. Take that away and you might as well get all your furniture from Ikea. The day Ikea starts producing Geocoins will be the day I accept logs can be deleted. Keep their history it's part of them.

Ok well that's my pennies worth and I think it's a shame there are people in this thread who can't have a discussion without being rude!

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My solution: Lock the logs after 2 weeks. If you don't care to do something about a log in that time period then it ought to stand. If Groundspeak did this the whole issue would be forgotten in a matter of months.

 

It's rather silly to me to delete logs and pretend you have a new coin. Even more so to pretend a coin with no logs is somehow better than one that has been discovered.

 

I enjoy seeing the history on activated coins I have purchased, and don't delete them. But I also can't support locking logs. There are problems to consider if that were to be implemented. Owners don't necessarily follow their trackable logs as closely as a cache's entries. Consider too, that logs can be edited without owner notification. What a headache it would be to discover after that two week window that the log or photo has the tracking number included! Let's not add pleas to have problem trackable logs deleted to the volunteers' work load.

 

Besides, if my logs are deleted from a coin's history, I want to retain the ability to self-delete any of my logs, movement or photo entries from any other coin belonging to that owner. <_<

 

Cloroxed geocoins. Bleck.

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My solution: Lock the logs after 2 weeks. If you don't care to do something about a log in that time period then it ought to stand. If Groundspeak did this the whole issue would be forgotten in a matter of months.

 

It's rather silly to me to delete logs and pretend you have a new coin. Even more so to pretend a coin with no logs is somehow better than one that has been discovered.

 

I enjoy seeing the history on activated coins I have purchased, and don't delete them. But I also can't support locking logs. There are problems to consider if that were to be implemented. Owners don't necessarily follow their trackable logs as closely as a cache's entries. Consider too, that logs can be edited without owner notification. What a headache it would be to discover after that two week window that the log or photo has the tracking number included! Let's not add pleas to have problem trackable logs deleted to the volunteers' work load.

 

Besides, if my logs are deleted from a coin's history, I want to retain the ability to self-delete any of my logs, movement or photo entries from any other coin belonging to that owner. <_<

 

Cloroxed geocoins. Bleck.

 

These are really good points, which is why I think it's best that GS simply adopt a policy that is similar to the one that they've taken with their caches: Movements/Discoveries made within the rules should not be deleted without cause. That way, there's no problem with being able to edit logs, delete photos, etc.

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<snipped in the interest of brevity>

It may seem silly to you, but I think it's silly to think deleting a coin log is such a big deal, it is just an icon, Who Cares!!!

 

Circulated - Uncirculated

Brand new vehicle - Used Vehicle'

 

Tell me, which has more value, which is sought after more

 

The people who design the icons and the people who collect the icons. That's who. Do you acknowledge that there is a huge part of this community who do collect those icons?

 

<snipped all the quotes again...>

An Activated coin has a history to it, and unactivated has a clean slate. I know when I seek out coins on Ebay or cointracking I prefer coins with NO LOGS activated or not. And I know I can't be the only one.

Coins that you purchase that have logs on them have a history that you were not a part of. I prefer starting a coin over with a clean record because I reactivate with the date I receive the coin so I don't want logs on it that predate the activation. So if I find a geocoin for sale that is preactivated but has no logs, thats a bonus.

 

"or not" wouldn't have logs. Activated, well-cared-for coins are no different than unactivated, well-cared-for coins other than having a webpage/community linked to them...whether they have logs or not. I've never understood why we pay more for those activation codes/icons and yet so many people don't activate them. I'm obviously in the camp of liking the activation/icons/history of these collectibles.

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what does it matter if you are going to delete the logs anyhow? it shouldn't matter if you have no logs or a thousand on it...

 

having said that, I have deleted some logs on coins I have purchased that were pre-activated, however I only do it to clean up the coins page... I never delete "discovered" logs or logs where it has been "dropped" into an event to add milage... I only delete "retrieved from" logs and unnecessary notes... to delete anything else only deletes the coins history... you never know, I would hate to delete a discovery log from someone that ends up famous 20 years from now....

 

I had that thought too, JB! :lol:

Ya, how would you know, no one uses their real names.

 

Most we will never know, but somehow we manage to find out some of them. B)

 

Besides, maybe they will be famous under their caching name!

 

OMG! :blink: Get Real!

 

Yes, let's get real. I don't mean that one day the President is going announce in the State of the Union "By the way, my geonick is 'Secret Service Headache', and everybody whose coins I discovered in the past 20 years is invited to a meet n greet event at the White House!".

 

Rather, geocaching has its celebrities, after a fashion. There're a lot of names that I would get a kick out of seeing in my logs: Tsunrisebey, Avroair, Jackelgirl, The Moop Along, drneal, AtlantaGal, Dorkfish, CCCooperAgency, Castleman, Moun10Bike, E&Cplus3, and many, many others. Has the coin been on one of MaxBontheRiver's tours? Has it been to any landmark caches, like Mission 9: Tunnel of Light, The Original Stash, or Groundspeak Headquarters? These things might not add monetary value to a coin, but they sure make its history more interesting.

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Well, now I've had to go and delete some of the history in this thread.

Please do not make this thread about any one person, or geocoin, so we can continue to discuss the pros and cons of log deletion.

So, please, do not make it personal, and I won't have to start awarding vacations.

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awarding vacations thats great....

 

well i guess ill chime in after reading all of the post but not that it matters much.

 

when i hide a cache that means i bought a container, i supplied the log, i supplied swag for the container.

i found a spot to place it, i talked to the land owner to have permission, i made the page for the cache and the name. also if something goes wrong with it such as missing or destroyed i am the one that must fix it.

 

so i have caches that i have more money tied up in than a coin (which i do love my coins)

i cant delete logs from my cache page unless there is a really good reason. so why can you delete them from a coin page. either way actually GS ownes all of the coins and the caches. we just find them and hold them for awhile.

 

same thing if i adopt a older cache thats been there for years before i even started playing this game i cant go in and delete the logs on that cache page just because i want it to start over.

 

and really there is no diff. in the two because even if i own the coin or the cache GS has the right to take them off of the site at any time.

 

and if GS takes the coins or caches off the site it doesnt really matter if they have good or bad logs because at that time they are really useless because they can only be tracked on this site.

 

as far as the "deleting logs to start the coin over part"

once the coin is active if it has 1 log or 1000 logs the coin is still active

so im not really understanding that part of it. its either active or unactive. the number of logs dont really matter its still active. i have bought hundreds of activated coins from sellers on here and also on ebay.

and never one time was i worried about how many logs it had on it. because if i was i would have bought an unactive coin.

 

but like i said at the begining its just the way i see it.

thanks

Edited by mlrs1996
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Say I purchase a Parking Facility, and there are a handful of vehicles parked there. I have new plans for this facility - I want to resurface it or use it in a different manner so I am going to have these cars removed off my Property. Same thing with a coin I have purchased with my own money it belongs to me, it is my property, and if your log is parked there, and the log is in the past before I owned the coin then I will consider having them removed, of course as I reiterated before, they would only be discover logs from events where the coin has not traveled and the discoverers have not spent anytime with the coin but only viewed for a few seconds then I will probably delete the logs.

And if the log owner did not receive a log deletion notice they would not even be aware of it being archived.

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'either way actually GS ownes all of the coins and the caches. we just find them and hold them for awhile.'

 

Ground Speak Does Not Own Coins you purchase or Caches you maintain - You are the Cache Owner, GS does not fix your cache, or supply it with swag or cache log or find the spot to place it, you are the Cache Owner and when submitting you agree to certain terms and one term is that you can not delete legitimate logs. There is no such agreement when it comes to coins. They are property of the coin owner.

Edited by GeoMinions
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i do agree and i also said that you own the cache and coin what i was saying is and i guess i should have been more specific when i said it.

was that without the GS web site the coins and caches are no good because they are tracked on this site.

so actually they have all control over the coins and caches.

 

if thats the case then why can a coin be locked over getting virtual logs. even if you agreed to let people log it that way. so even when you own the coin there are rules to having the coin.

they should just make it a rule that you cant delete logs for no reason.

 

and if you bought the parking lot and its not zoned for what ever your wanting to build on that lot then even with you owning it you cant make them changes without permission. and you couldnt just come in buy the property and start towing off cars. there are rules you have to follow

you would have to post a sign and follow the rules before you could just start towing them off. so that people knew it was going to happen.

Edited by mlrs1996
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Say I purchase a Parking Facility, and there are a handful of vehicles parked there. I have new plans for this facility - I want to resurface it or use it in a different manner so I am going to have these cars removed off my Property. Same thing with a coin I have purchased with my own money it belongs to me, it is my property, and if your log is parked there, and the log is in the past before I owned the coin then I will consider having them removed, of course as I reiterated before, they would only be discover logs from events where the coin has not traveled and the discoverers have not spent anytime with the coin but only viewed for a few seconds then I will probably delete the logs.

And if the log owner did not receive a log deletion notice they would not even be aware of it being archived.

 

We are talking about GEOcaches and GEOcoins. Not GEOparking lots. But I will use your example. When you buy a parking lot and you have new plans for that facility, you must first ask permission with your local authorities if you may change it. Otherwise your parking lot stays a parking lot. The only thing that changed, is the owner.

 

'either way actually GS ownes all of the coins and the caches. we just find them and hold them for awhile.'

 

Ground Speak Does Not Own Coins you purchase or Caches you maintain - You are the Cache Owner, GS does not fix your cache, or supply it with swag or cache log or find the spot to place it, you are the Cache Owner and when submitting you agree to certain terms and one term is that you can not delete legitimate logs. There is no such agreement when it comes to coins. They are property of the coin owner.

 

GS owns the tracking number on the coin (wrote this earlier) and facilitates the website. That way that number is only useful on that site. When GS goes broke, the website is gone. Your GEOcoin then turns into just a coin. Just a piece of metal.

Let's ask GS to have Terms of Use on coins.

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So my question then becomes who owns the log.....I mentioned this above, but again, in a system that promotes logging, defines achiements by how many caches, gives put badges for various challenges...the log is the essential method of acknowledging many parts of the experience. Allowing for such an easy removal of legitimate logs seems troublesome

I own my own logs legally just as I own the pictures I post. Neither can be used without my permission anywhere. I was told this by Bryan Groundspeak's lawyer when I asked about using some logs in a book. Groundspeak owns the server they are hosted on. If that server goes down and is corrupted then my logs are gone unless I have copies. Can someone delete them? Sure they can but they can't post them elsewhere ie I own those words I wrote myself but not the place where they are hosted.

 

You are the owner of your own medical records. However, the doctor owns the paper they are written on. You can ask the office for copies of those records and pay for the copies but not the original copies themselves. Also the doctor has the right to destroy those records after a period of time

 

The value of a coin is determined by what someone pays for it.

Part of that value is the tracking number. Coins with tracking numbers are (most of the times) more expensive then those without.

But the trackingnumber is a service provided by GS. So it may have Terms of Use. Maybe those ToU should be brought to attention when activating a coin and one should agree to them. Just like submitting a cache to the reviewers.

That way logs may be protected. Also when being adopted. And perhaps they should automaticaly be locked after a period of time.

So let's request this feature...

TOTALLY in disagreement. If I purchase an activated coin I want the CHOICE to delete previous logs and I do not think that anyone should be able to take that choice away. I am the owner, it is my property I should be able to do with it what I want - including cleaning it's history.

 

I agree that the coin is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I personally pay less for activated coins. I have given away many coins as gifts and wouldn't think of giving them an activated coin.

 

Even though I sincerely doubt that I would delete logs I strongly believe that as an owner I should have that right. I definitely would not be in favor of locking logs after any period of time.

 

 

 

I enjoy seeing the history on activated coins I have purchased, and don't delete them. But I also can't support locking logs. There are problems to consider if that were to be implemented. Owners don't necessarily follow their trackable logs as closely as a cache's entries. Consider too, that logs can be edited without owner notification. What a headache it would be to discover after that two week window that the log or photo has the tracking number included! Let's not add pleas to have problem trackable logs deleted to the volunteers' work load.

 

Besides, if my logs are deleted from a coin's history, I want to retain the ability to self-delete any of my logs, movement or photo entries from any other coin belonging to that owner. <_<

 

Agreed

 

well i guess ill chime in after reading all of the post but not that it matters much.

 

 

so i have caches that i have more money tied up in than a coin (which i do love my coins)

i cant delete logs from my cache page unless there is a really good reason. so why can you delete them from a coin page. either way actually GS ownes all of the coins and the caches. we just find them and hold them for awhile.

same thing if i adopt a older cache thats been there for years before i even started playing this game i cant go in and delete the logs on that cache page just because i want it to start over.

 

and really there is no diff. in the two because even if i own the coin or the cache GS has the right to take them off of the site at any time.

 

and if GS takes the coins or caches off the site it doesnt really matter if they have good or bad logs because at that time they are really useless because they can only be tracked on this site.

 

 

It does matter what you chime in to say! All (or maybe I should say most) opinions are important.!!! :)

 

 

But I do have to say that Groundspeak in no shape or form owns my coins. They also sold the tracking codes so how can it be said that they still own what they previously sold? What they do own is the server (unless that is leased) and the database. If they freeze my coins they aren't useless to me because I collect them and the traveling coins that I own are a small percentage of the coins in my collection. They are my "precious" as Kealia would say.

 

I should say here too that I really like s lot of nontracksble coins. They are a big part of the history of geocoins and their evolution. If anyone is into the history of coins a lot of them should really be in geocoin collections.

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@LadyBee4Tee.

If GS would clearly have Term of Use on which you should agree when activating a coin, would you still be activating coins?

And one of the rules of those ToU would be that you respect logs on coins and can't delete them without good reason.

And adopting a coin is like adopting a cache. You automaticaly agree to those ToU.

 

The trackingnumber is sold to the manufacturer of the coin. There actualy are ToU to these tracking numbers. So when they are on a coin, the coin is made with permission of GS.

For the money you paid, GS promisses to maintain a site where you can activate the tracking number and do all things we do with coins (trackingnumbers). So you buy a service of GS. But there are conditions on using it.

But those are not clear to someone who bought a coin. So when you activate a coin, you should agree on honorring the ToU.

I hope I'm clear.

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Say I purchase a Parking Facility, and there are a handful of vehicles parked there. I have new plans for this facility - I want to resurface it or use it in a different manner so I am going to have these cars removed off my Property. Same thing with a coin I have purchased with my own money it belongs to me, it is my property, and if your log is parked there, and the log is in the past before I owned the coin then I will consider having them removed, of course as I reiterated before, they would only be discover logs from events where the coin has not traveled and the discoverers have not spent anytime with the coin but only viewed for a few seconds then I will probably delete the logs.

And if the log owner did not receive a log deletion notice they would not even be aware of it being archived.

 

This analogy doesn't fit. With the cars...we as the owners would have the option to move those cars to a different place. With coin logs, once you delete them they're gone. Maybe that's why this is such an emotional issue. Maybe deleting logs is like stealing/destroying property?

 

Oh, yes I WOULD be aware if I lost an icon for a coin I've moved/discovered! I'm a collector...that's what I do...and I enjoy collecting those silly little pieces of art!

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And if the log owner did not receive a log deletion notice they would not even be aware of it being archived.

 

While I do not have a dog in this fight, I have enjoyed those post that are well though-out and clearly conveyed. I do take issue with the above statement because I do keep my stats using GSAK among other tools and would certianly notice if one of my unique trackable "finds" were to suddenly vanish. While I do have several "discovers", I take more joy in actually moving GCs and TBs along their way; The icons are a pleasant bonus.

 

As for the used car analogy, I agree New vs Used = Unactivated vs Activated. Therefore, deleting the previous logs = rolling back the mileage on the used car to presumably increase its worth.

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And if the log owner did not receive a log deletion notice they would not even be aware of it being archived.

 

While I do not have a dog in this fight, I have enjoyed those post that are well though-out and clearly conveyed. I do take issue with the above statement because I do keep my stats using GSAK among other tools and would certianly notice if one of my unique trackable "finds" were to suddenly vanish. While I do have several "discovers", I take more joy in actually moving GCs and TBs along their way; The icons are a pleasant bonus.

 

As for the used car analogy, I agree New vs Used = Unactivated vs Activated. Therefore, deleting the previous logs = rolling back the mileage on the used car to presumably increase its worth.

 

However, that's a false "worth". The car/coin still has the mileage/history...it's just been hidden.

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And if the log owner did not receive a log deletion notice they would not even be aware of it being archived.

 

While I do not have a dog in this fight, I have enjoyed those post that are well though-out and clearly conveyed. I do take issue with the above statement because I do keep my stats using GSAK among other tools and would certianly notice if one of my unique trackable "finds" were to suddenly vanish. While I do have several "discovers", I take more joy in actually moving GCs and TBs along their way; The icons are a pleasant bonus.

 

As for the used car analogy, I agree New vs Used = Unactivated vs Activated. Therefore, deleting the previous logs = rolling back the mileage on the used car to presumably increase its worth.

 

However, that's a false "worth". The car/coin still has the mileage/history...it's just been hidden.

 

Exactly my point (and why I used the term presumably). Anyone who pays a little more for an activated "no logs" coin is obviously not thinking clearly, since logs are so easily "rolled-back".

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And if the log owner did not receive a log deletion notice they would not even be aware of it being archived.

 

While I do not have a dog in this fight, I have enjoyed those post that are well though-out and clearly conveyed. I do take issue with the above statement because I do keep my stats using GSAK among other tools and would certianly notice if one of my unique trackable "finds" were to suddenly vanish. While I do have several "discovers", I take more joy in actually moving GCs and TBs along their way; The icons are a pleasant bonus.

 

As for the used car analogy, I agree New vs Used = Unactivated vs Activated. Therefore, deleting the previous logs = rolling back the mileage on the used car to presumably increase its worth.

 

However, that's a false "worth". The car/coin still has the mileage/history...it's just been hidden.

 

Exactly my point (and why I used the term presumably). Anyone who pays a little more for an activated "no logs" coin is obviously not thinking clearly, since logs are so easily "rolled-back".

Apparently you have not read the previous posts, this coin had NO Mileage, it had not traveled it was only seen at one event and I as I have stated before those are the only type of logs I delete and the coin was never handled by anyone, so no vested interest. There is no mileage erased at all. as the new owner I like having this option and I believe I have the right to get rid of these 'boring' logs.

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