blasting caps & dynamite

[+singscience]

I was geocaching in a place where people used to quarry. When I picked up something that looked like the bottom of a plastic bottle, but turned out to be a plastic something I coudn't identify, I suddenly became afraid that I could accidentally pick up something dangerous.

I looked on the internet and found pictures of some blasting caps and dynamite. I think I would recognise dynamite - and I guess you'd have to actually light dynamite for it to be a hazard - but does anyone know just how dangerous and how common truly dangerous explosives are out there? Is it something that geocachers should know about? Should I be careful in and around these old quarries, or is there nothing to worry about if I disturb old explosives unwittingly?

Any good primer sites on explosives? I didn't find much.

Thanks!

[+mpilchfamily]

If you run across anything your unsure of stay clear of it and contact the authorities to come investigate it!

 

How old is the site? Anything dangerous should be clearly marked and would have been removed from the site when the area was abandoned. Though things could have been left behind.

 

Blasting caps are usually small metal cylinders. Any printed marking may have come off but they would need an ignition source to be set off. Any item that looks like a container or bottle cap would be embossed and only be the lid to a container that held the blasting caps. When in doubt stay away.

[+Totem Clan]

If you run across anything your unsure of stay clear of it and contact the authorities to come investigate it!

 

How old is the site? Anything dangerous should be clearly marked and would have been removed from the site when the area was abandoned. Though things could have been left behind.

 

Blasting caps are usually small metal cylinders. Any printed marking may have come off but they would need an ignition source to be set off. Any item that looks like a container or bottle cap would be embossed and only be the lid to a container that held the blasting caps. When in doubt stay away.

+100

 

If you're not sure don't mess with it. I was trained in demolition in the military and I still wouldn't go near something I wasn't sure of.

 

Also det cord and ANFO have been used for many years now instead of dynamite, so chance are that what you found was not dangerous. Also site like that are required to be cleared before the public is allowed to even accidently get near them.

 

Still don't take any chance if you're not sure.

[+CanadianRockies]

I think I would recognise dynamite - and I guess you'd have to actually light dynamite for it to be a hazard - but does anyone know just how dangerous and how common truly dangerous explosives are out there?

Dynamite contains nitroglycerin that is mixed with absorbent substances to make the nitroglycerin less shock sensitive. Old dynamite that hasn't been stored and maintained properly can "sweat," causing nitroglycerin to crystallize on the outside of the dynamite stick and make everything more shock sensitive. You don't want to be messing with the stuff.

[+Totem Clan]

I think I would recognise dynamite - and I guess you'd have to actually light dynamite for it to be a hazard - but does anyone know just how dangerous and how common truly dangerous explosives are out there?

Dynamite contains nitroglycerin that is mixed with absorbent substances to make the nitroglycerin less shock sensitive. Old dynamite that hasn't been stored and maintained properly can "sweat," causing nitroglycerin to crystallize on the outside of the dynamite stick and make everything more shock sensitive. You don't want to be messing with the stuff.

very true. Then all it take is bump or a short fall/drop and.... Well that wouldn't be how I would want to end a caching trip.

[+hzoi]

I think I would recognise dynamite - and I guess you'd have to actually light dynamite for it to be a hazard - but does anyone know just how dangerous and how common truly dangerous explosives are out there?

Dynamite contains nitroglycerin that is mixed with absorbent substances to make the nitroglycerin less shock sensitive. Old dynamite that hasn't been stored and maintained properly can "sweat," causing nitroglycerin to crystallize on the outside of the dynamite stick and make everything more shock sensitive. You don't want to be messing with the stuff.

Hey, I remember that episode of MacGuyver, too. Classic.

[+singscience]

Well, these sites are in a section of the San Francisco Bay Ridge Trail, so I guess they would have been looked over for safety. Still, it's always a good idea to know a thing or two just in case.

Dynamite sweats nitro??? And here I thought it was the least of my worries! Thanks!

What do blasting caps need to be able to go off?

I have no idea what det cord and ANFO are (maybe I'd better look up), but since these are old sites, I'm guessing there'd be no modern explosives there.

[+Totem Clan]

Well, these sites are in a section of the San Francisco Bay Ridge Trail, so I guess they would have been looked over for safety. Still, it's always a good idea to know a thing or two just in case.

Dynamite sweats nitro??? And here I thought it was the least of my worries! Thanks!

What do blasting caps need to be able to go off?

I have no idea what det cord and ANFO are (maybe I'd better look up), but since these are old sites, I'm guessing there'd be no modern explosives there.

I depend on the cap/primer. It can be heat (like a fuze) or a spark or pressure/shock.

 

det cord

 

ANFO

[+CanadianRockies]

What do blasting caps need to be able to go off?

Here's a web page on blasting caps from the Oregon State Police's Arson and Explosives Units. And here's an excerpt:

 

[Fuse-style blasting caps] can detonate when exposed to heat, shock or static electricity. Old fuse caps that show signs of deterioration, such as crystallization, are extremely dangerous.

[+Totem Clan]

If I had to pick one to mess with, I would take the main charge (the explosives) any day over the detonators. They are built to take less to set them off. They in turn set off the charge. They may be small and don't do as damage as the explosives would, but it's still enough to severely injure you.

[7rxc]

Well, these sites are in a section of the San Francisco Bay Ridge Trail, so I guess they would have been looked over for safety. Still, it's always a good idea to know a thing or two just in case.

Dynamite sweats nitro??? And here I thought it was the least of my worries! Thanks!

What do blasting caps need to be able to go off?

I have no idea what det cord and ANFO are (maybe I'd better look up), but since these are old sites, I'm guessing there'd be no modern explosives there.

 

Interesting topic. First off, as in blue above. Why not contact whoever is responsible for that Trail and ask them about what might have been done/not done in that regard? Then let us know what they say or intend to do about it. Assumptions of safety often lead to accidents.

 

As stated Dynamite can sweat, it also can simply leach out or drain to the bottom side if stored too long without turning. You might never see beads of sweat on top... you can often see it underneath. Aside from being sensitive 'bang' wise, you do not want to handle it bare handed even when new... or breath fumes from it. Research nitro headache... you don't want to take an aspirin for that either...

 

Blasting caps come in two types: crimp on for fuse and electric. Both are similar in size and appearance, small cylinders a couple of inches long and 1/4 to 3/8 inch or so (depending on use and manufacturer etc.)in diameter. Fuse types have one end open to accept a fuse to be inserted and then crimped on, the electric ones have two wires already sealed in place... it doesn't take much electricity to activate either. Most have a simple explosive material (fulminate) that is set off by heat provided by the fuse or and electric heater element inside. So excessive heat will do the trick, don't throw caps in a fire etc. Also the explosive material is sensitive to pressure. Many crimp on types have been tripped by the crimping tool, or even dropping. One doesn't crimp one on after placing anywhere near the explosive charge either... Fuse in itself is altered by age, slow burning fuse can do anything from burn fast to be a total dud. Det(onation) cord is simply explosive in a long cord form resembling fuse, and can be used as a timing device (fuse) for linking timed charges, or as explosive in it's own right. It would be a fairly new form compared to some forms. New thing is shock tubing, but that's new to me as well.

 

ANFO = Ammonium Nitrate + Fuel Oil which is basically common fertilizer with a sensitizing agent... research Oklahoma Bombing I believe. Around here it's used for big wall mining in the coal pits.

 

As for the age of anything found, I'd agree that anything found would be either very old or someones homemade stash. I don't think that nitro dynamite has been around much in the US for years... Much of it was replaced by Tovex (spelling?) which is much safer to make and store. Needless to say obtaining such things has tightened up a lot in the last few years, with lots of paperwork and regulation, qualification etc. Besides which it was easier to use it all up than try returning unused amounts.

 

On a closing note, don't underate black powder explosives... especially old stuff, again it can range from dud to extremely sensitive.

 

IF you do find something, move away (further than you might think) and notify the local authorities with your observations.

Look what they do to Geocaches that are questionably placed. The love to find the REAL thing even more.

 

Doug 7rxc

[+SwineFlew]

If I had to pick one to mess with, I would take the main charge (the explosives) any day over the detonators. They are built to take less to set them off. They in turn set off the charge. They may be small and don't do as damage as the explosives would, but it's still enough to severely injure you.

 

Same here.

[+Glenn]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Death by accidental explosion doesn't even make the top 10 list of Causes of Accidental Death. Just make sure you buckle up!

 

 

Top 10 Causes of Accidental Death

 

Life is full of accidents. From spilling your milk to elbowing your loved one in the night. These particular accidents however result is something much worse than a black eye. These are the top 10 accidents that could land you 6 feet under.

 

10. Electrocution

~500 Deaths / Year

 

There is about a 1 in 10,000 chance you'll inadvertently join the some 4,500 inmates who have died by electrocution. Better be careful next time you're changing the light bulb.

 

9. Getting Hit by a Car

~1,100 Deaths / Year

 

Didn't your mama teach you to look both ways before crossing the street? Think twice next time you step off the curb and expect someone jabbering on their cell phone to give a dadgum.

 

8. Firearm Discharge

~1,150 Deaths / Year

 

Yah, you have the right to bear arms. Just put a lock on it! The odds of your kid getting whacked by a loaded firearm are about 1 in 5000.

 

7. Complications with Medical Procedure

~3,000 Deaths / Year

 

Going under the knife? Better make sure Doc is on his game before you let him rub on your innards.

 

6. Choking

~3,200 Deaths / Year

 

Know the Heimlich maneuver? You might consider learning since 3,200 people died from choking on a gobstopper or a piece of fillet mignon. Who knows you might just be a hero.

 

5. Drowning

~3,500 Deaths / Year

 

Swimming, bathing, boating, or any other activity to do with water results in thousands of people accidentally drowning to death. Maybe Steve Jobs should market iGills.

 

4. Fire

~3,700 Deaths / Year

 

Dying in a fire would really have to suck. Being burned to death has always been one of my worst fears. The odds of dying from smoke inhalation, a falling beam, a back draft, or just plain burning to death are about 1 in 1000.

 

3. Poisoning

~9,500 Deaths / Year

 

People just love to overdose on their drugs. This also includes accidental poisonings like swigging some Windex or Clorox. My wife and I called Poison Control a couple years ago when our 2 year old downed half a bottle of KY Jelly. Thankfully all that did was give her "the runs" for about a week.

 

2. Falling

~15,000 Deaths / Year

 

Bob Saget cashed in on the #2 accidental death with America's Funniest Home Video. I guess it really is surprising how many people fall off a ladder and through a plate glass window to meet there demise. Your odds of doing the same are 1 in 218!

 

1. Car Crash

~44,000 Deaths / Year

 

No real surprise here. If you've been driving for 5 years or so you've probably been in an accident. Thankfully for you it wasn't fatal.

[+CanadianRockies]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Death by accidental explosion doesn't even make the top 10 list of Causes of Accidental Death. Just make sure you buckle up!

I wouldn't conclude that something isn't dangerous just because it isn't among the top ten causes of accidental death.

 

Lots of people die in car accidents because lots of people often drive around in cars. But deaths per ride isn't very high. Not many people inhale nicin, but deaths per nicin inhalation is very high. If I was near nicin, then I'd worry about it quite a bit.

Edited January 30, 2012 by CanadianRockies

[+larryc43230]

I think I would recognise dynamite - and I guess you'd have to actually light dynamite for it to be a hazard - but does anyone know just how dangerous and how common truly dangerous explosives are out there?

Dynamite contains nitroglycerin that is mixed with absorbent substances to make the nitroglycerin less shock sensitive. Old dynamite that hasn't been stored and maintained properly can "sweat," causing nitroglycerin to crystallize on the outside of the dynamite stick and make everything more shock sensitive. You don't want to be messing with the stuff.

Watch the movie The Wages of Sin, or its remake, Sorcerer (with Roy Scheider) for a hair-raising saga based on the risks that old dynamite can entail.

 

--Larry

[+Moose Mob]

I saw a cool hiding spot and hiked up the hill to hide a cache, saw a pile of about 6 sticks of explosives in some desert grasses. (not dynamite, but had a different name). I took pictures, marked the coordiantes and handed it off to the authorities. Needless to say, I didn't place a cache there.

[+A & J Tooling]

I've been to places where we have found explosives from 60 years ago. These areas have been gone over with every year, looking for explosives. Yet we would contionue to find them. Year after year. Always be on the safe side. Take a picture of it and forward to the proper authorities. Better safe then dead.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

I was geocaching in a place where people used to quarry. When I picked up something that looked like the bottom of a plastic bottle, but turned out to be a plastic something I coudn't identify, I suddenly became afraid that I could accidentally pick up something dangerous.

I looked on the internet and found pictures of some blasting caps and dynamite.

It is good that you thought of explosives however, you should be aware that you could stumble across explosives anywhere, not just in an area where they had been used.

 

I think I would recognise dynamite...

While it may be true that you could recognize dynamite, your chances of running across are becoming more and more limited all the time. More likely, you could come across other types of explosives not immediately recognizable as such.

Dynamite itself is becoming a scarce commodity. Not many quarries or other blasting concerns use it anymore.

That said... IF you do come across what appears to be dynamite never, ever touch it -- period. It probably is quite old and one of the problems with dynamite is as it ages it becomes unstable, ultimately to a point of self-detonation. Others have mentioned "sweating". That is part of the aging process. The "sweat" is nitroglycerin that has soaked out and through the outer covering. It is extremely dangerous at this point, except for the most experienced handler (even then, things can go wrong).

 

Dynamite has fallen by the wayside as other materials (better stability, uniformity/control of blast, etc.) now exist. These are the explosives that you probably would not recognize as such. Their appearance range includes liquids; gels; plastic [plastique] (looks like silly-putty or clay -- varying colors); and lastly powders. So... you see that if you aren't familiar with explosives, it is best just to back away, altogether. True, the newer ones are far less sensitive to rough handling, but it is always best to err on the side of caution.

 

- and I guess you'd have to actually light dynamite for it to be a hazard - but does anyone know just how dangerous and how common truly dangerous explosives are out there?

Lighting it aflame generally will not cause an explosion with most explosives. As far as old dynamite goes -- I wouldn't try it (goes back to the nitroglycerin it is made of). Old dynamite is completely untrustworthy. You just never know what will set it off!

 

Is it something that geocachers should know about?

Not necessarily. But it is certainly something one should be aware of, geocaching or not. More-so, knowing to back away and report your finding is the best thing to do.

 

Should I be careful in and around these old quarries,...

I am going to say YES! Not because of explosives though. Quarries and gravel pits can be some of the most dangerous places one can stumble and bumble about in. This is one reason why (active) operations have such stringent rules, regulations and laws governing them (in most locations). When you take into account that an unused quarry has not been attended to for some time, it could certainly make matters worse. For the unknowing person, they are one of the most dangerous places to be (old mines are even worse).

 

...or is there nothing to worry about if I disturb old explosives unwittingly?

Best response to that questions is (sadly)... ask the children of old war zones, those with missing arms and legs.

Nothing good comes of disturbing something that could be an explosive, unwittingly or otherwise.

 

Any good primer sites on explosives? I didn't find much.

Thanks!

Simply put, probably the most dangerous item that you would come across one of these sites is blasting caps. One probably wouldn't kill you, but it certainly can remove a hand. Worse, they could even look like a micro cache. Cylindrical, about as big around as a pencil, with a hollowed end (fuse insertion); electrical caps will have wire leads trailing from one end (not hollowed).

ALL blasting caps, by their nature are very easy to set off.

 

There are plenty of websites but, (paranoia enters the picture, here) spend much time searching those sites and you will come under scrutiny of someone, somewhere, somehow.

[+A & J Tooling]

As to how dangerous this stuff can be, I once found something that the paintings and markings on it suggested that it was inert and non-explosive. I tossed it toward the truck that was full of inert/non-explosive stuff. I missed and it went over the truck and exploded. I nearly had an accident. It was an eye opening experience.

[+Dgwphotos]

(old mines are even worse).

 

Very true, particularly Coal Mines. NEVER EVER enter an old coal mine, without th proper training and equipment. The hazards range from Methane and pockets of Carbon Dioxide, to old props giving way, resulting in a collapse. They can be very complicated, and easy to get lost in.

[BlueRajah]

We had an event here with a local bomb squad, it was really interesting.

 

They brought out a lot of old (inactive) blasting caps, and mock dynamite for us to see. In the west there are a fair number laying around at old mines/blasting sites.

 

They mentioned a blasting cap can take a finger off. So never handle it, call someone in. A spark (static) could set it off.

 

Dynamite is more dangerous with age. Here locally someone found some, and the nitro had leaked into a table the boxes were sitting on. The table was nearly as explosive as the dynamite. A least they treated it that way.

 

A very interesting event, and we learned a lot, if you can swing one with a bomb squad it is worth it.

[+singscience]

Wow! These are great tips and bits of information. Thank you all!

What really got to me and made me decide ask here about it was that I picked something up thinking it was something else - when I saw what the whole thing looked like - putty was what came to mind. But I didn't know whether explosive putty was used in mining. I set it down as carefully as I possibly could!

Still, this is what caused me to consider the possiblity that I might need to be aware of explosives at these sites (some are just a hole in the ground where somebody was looking to find a vein and nothing more).

I feel I have a better idea now, and thanks for the links to help me learn more. Explosives that could be confused with a micro is a little scary!!! So how about if we all agree, no micros in mine @ quarry areas!

On the up side, there's some really cool rocks and crystals in the area!

Singscience

[+RoadRunner]

In Nevada, and most other places, it illegal to enter an abandonded mine. The State tries to seal them off, but it is not cheap, so they try to get the most unstable or higher risk ones first. (Higher risk = in popular off road enthusiest areas).

 

I believe what A & J Tooling is refering to is the minefields in war zones. I doubt you will find any geocaches inside the marked areas, but I have found some geocaches just outside the minefield fence along the access road.

[BlueRajah]

One cool thing about being a geocacher, is we have a great device to get coords. Our bomb squad guy said to take a picture, if you can. Then take the coords. They are more than happy to get paid for a hike to dispose of something. If it is not dangerous, they still don't mind getting paid to hike.

[+Manville Possum]

I live in Coal Country where strip mining and mountain top removal is common. The powder wagon has the right of way, even if you are a Coal hauler. Dyno Nobel has a plant near by and their delivery trucks are common site. Many years ago there was a huge noise that rumbled for over 30 seconds and shook my house, it was quite scary. I knew it was not thunder, and no chatter on the police scanner. When I got to my job site about an hour away a co worked told me that the Space Shuttle had rentered the atmospere somewhere over SW Virginia and caused a sonic boom.

[+SwineFlew]

This is one of the most educating thread I see for a long time. I knew most of the info and was happy to have a refresh.

 

I wonder if bomb squads will like to teach us about safely around dynamites and blasting caps at geocaching events. At the same time, they might learn more about geocaching. I do understand that we geocachers have a higher risk of finding explosives. Will be nice if cachers are updated about what to do when they see it.

[+Moose Mob]

This is one of the most educating thread I see for a long time. I knew most of the info and was happy to have a refresh.

 

I wonder if bomb squads will like to teach us about safely around dynamites and blasting caps at geocaching events. At the same time, they might learn more about geocaching. I do understand that we geocachers have a higher risk of finding explosives. Will be nice if cachers are updated about what to do when they see it.

As a whole, I bet we find more dead bodies than explosives. It would be tough to do an accurate survey to validate that premise.

[+Manville Possum]

This is one of the most educating thread I see for a long time. I knew most of the info and was happy to have a refresh.

 

I wonder if bomb squads will like to teach us about safely around dynamites and blasting caps at geocaching events. At the same time, they might learn more about geocaching. I do understand that we geocachers have a higher risk of finding explosives. Will be nice if cachers are updated about what to do when they see it.

As a whole, I bet we find more dead bodies than explosives. It would be tough to do an accurate survey to validate that premise.

Not to derail or side track this thread, but as geocachers we have another explosive danger that we need to be educated about because we are much more likely to encounter. Shake and Bake Meth Labs.

http://www.newser.com/story/138059/new-meth-recipe-really-explosive.html

[+Totem Clan]

This is one of the most educating thread I see for a long time. I knew most of the info and was happy to have a refresh.

 

I wonder if bomb squads will like to teach us about safely around dynamites and blasting caps at geocaching events. At the same time, they might learn more about geocaching. I do understand that we geocachers have a higher risk of finding explosives. Will be nice if cachers are updated about what to do when they see it.

As a whole, I bet we find more dead bodies than explosives. It would be tough to do an accurate survey to validate that premise.

Not to derail or side track this thread, but as geocachers we have another explosive danger that we need to be educated about because we are much more likely to encounter. Shake and Bake Meth Labs.

http://www.newser.com/story/138059/new-meth-recipe-really-explosive.html

I've never come across one while caching YET, but one of the most booby-trapped places I've ever seen was a cocaine lab in the jungles of South America. It made some of the place in Bosnia look like a kiddie park. The labs and weed patches in the states can be just as bad. Be careful out there. (But don't worry so much it ruins you hobby.)

[+A & J Tooling]

This is one of the most educating thread I see for a long time. I knew most of the info and was happy to have a refresh.

 

I wonder if bomb squads will like to teach us about safely around dynamites and blasting caps at geocaching events. At the same time, they might learn more about geocaching. I do understand that we geocachers have a higher risk of finding explosives. Will be nice if cachers are updated about what to do when they see it.

 

Mark the location and alert the authorities. That is all you can do.

[+bflentje]

I've had a similar experience..

 

2009 - A Potentially Explosive Situation

[+A & J Tooling]

In Nevada, and most other places, it illegal to enter an abandonded mine. The State tries to seal them off, but it is not cheap, so they try to get the most unstable or higher risk ones first. (Higher risk = in popular off road enthusiest areas).

 

I believe what A & J Tooling is refering to is the minefields in war zones. I doubt you will find any geocaches inside the marked areas, but I have found some geocaches just outside the minefield fence along the access road.

 

Actually I'm referring to old shooting ranges from WW1 and WW2 right here in the States. A lot of those old places have been turned over to other people or government bodies over time and made into parks or get-aways. Places we go to.

[+Totem Clan]

In Nevada, and most other places, it illegal to enter an abandonded mine. The State tries to seal them off, but it is not cheap, so they try to get the most unstable or higher risk ones first. (Higher risk = in popular off road enthusiest areas).

 

I believe what A & J Tooling is refering to is the minefields in war zones. I doubt you will find any geocaches inside the marked areas, but I have found some geocaches just outside the minefield fence along the access road.

 

Actually I'm referring to old shooting ranges from WW1 and WW2 right here in the States. A lot of those old places have been turned over to other people or government bodies over time and made into parks or get-aways. Places we go to.

Yep. There's an old impact range out here from WWII bomber training days. About once every year or two somebody finds an old bomb that didn't detonate back in the day. In fact my brother and I found one while hunting years ago. Turned out it was an inert practice bomb but still there are places that they are still there.

I'm not going to worry about them nor are they going to stop me from caching at all, but it's good to be aware of the what 'could' be on the trail.

[+CanadianRockies]

Actually I'm referring to old shooting ranges from WW1 and WW2 right here in the States. A lot of those old places have been turned over to other people or government bodies over time and made into parks or get-aways. Places we go to.

Yep. A geocacher found an unexploded WWII rocket in a well-used park near our home.

[+JohnnyVegas]

I was geocaching in a place where people used to quarry. When I picked up something that looked like the bottom of a plastic bottle, but turned out to be a plastic something I coudn't identify, I suddenly became afraid that I could accidentally pick up something dangerous.

I looked on the internet and found pictures of some blasting caps and dynamite. I think I would recognise dynamite - and I guess you'd have to actually light dynamite for it to be a hazard - but does anyone know just how dangerous and how common truly dangerous explosives are out there? Is it something that geocachers should know about? Should I be careful in and around these old quarries, or is there nothing to worry about if I disturb old explosives unwittingly?

Any good primer sites on explosives? I didn't find much.

Thanks!

I doubt you would be able to find dynamite laying sround in an old quarry.

very old Dynamite was made with Nitroglycerin that was mixed with dimataios earth in order to stabulized. When it got old the Nitro with work it's way throught the paper casing. This is when I became very dangerous because nitro is very senstive to being droped etc. Dyanamite was phased out of the blasting industry many years ago. A falme will not detonate dynamite that is what the blasting cap is for. Now modern day fireworks which I am licensed to use can be more dangerous to handle than todays modern explosives, firework do not require a detonator.