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Allowable format for information within Event pages


Moote

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Hello Reviewers, Moderators, and the all round general Good guys of Groundspeak.

 

Could you please give some general guidance on how to point out the location of various amenities, in and around event locations, on a Event page . Usually this information is very useful for people who might be travelling 100's of miles to an event.

 

These might include, but not limited to, Camping shops, Supermarkets, Newsagents, Petrol Stations (Just in case one of our American cousins see this, that's a Gas Station)

 

Kindest of regards

 

Moote

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Hello Reviewers, Moderators, and the all round general Good guys of Groundspeak.

 

Could you please give some general guidance on how to point out the location of various amenities, in and around event locations, on a Event page . Usually this information is very useful for people who might be travelling 100's of miles to an event.

 

These might include, but not limited to, Camping shops, Supermarkets, Newsagents, Petrol Stations (Just in case one of our American cousins see this, that's a Gas Station)

 

Kindest of regards

 

Moote

 

I have always understood the best way is to host the information elsewhere, say a website for the event, and simply say on the event page "useful information on the nearest supermarket etc can be found by clicking on this link"

 

If you didn't want to use a web page, I'm sure a Groundspeak approved alternative would be to point caches to listings on Waymarking.com, I believe such amenities can be listed there?

 

I am unclear, however, whether using additional waypoints would be acceptable?

Edited by Jaz666
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I have always understood the best way is to host the information elsewhere, say a website for the event, and simply say on the event page "useful information on the nearest supermarket etc can be found by clicking on this link"

 

If you didn't want to use a web page, I'm sure a Groundspeak approved alternative would be to point caches to listings on Waymarking.com, I believe such amenities can be listed there?

 

I am unclear, however, whether using additional waypoints would be acceptable?

What I was thinking was maybe a generic

 

Supermarkets can be found Here, Here, and Here, a Farm shop Here, and Petrol stations Here

 

And each here was just a link to a Google Bing or other mapping page for general location / directions and no use of Trademarked names.

 

But I really need Groundspeak's input on the matter, I think they need to set the standard straight, to help prevent any upset.

 

 

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I don't see why this sort of information needs to be included on the cache page for an event.

 

When I go camping (or just head into a unfamiliar area for the day/weekend/week) I either

 

1, Research the area before I leave home.

2, Ask the camp site wardens (or other campers) on arrival (a lot of sites will include this info in their "welcome pack")

3, Look it up on my phone when i get there.

4, Have a drive round and use my eyes.

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I don't see why this sort of information needs to be included on the cache page for an event.

 

When I go camping (or just head into a unfamiliar area for the day/weekend/week) I either

 

1, Research the area before I leave home.

2, Ask the camp site wardens (or other campers) on arrival (a lot of sites will include this info in their "welcome pack")

3, Look it up on my phone when i get there.

4, Have a drive round and use my eyes.

In response

 

1. Research sometimes does not give the best results, and why not be helpful, at least giving a starting point for people?

2. I'm sure the warden would be grateful for the Event setter to ask, and disseminate the answer, rather than have a string of long calls or letters / emails to answer.

Many sites do not have a welcome pack, and again asking other campers is not always the best thing, as many will be looking also.

3. It's foolish to assume you will get a decent signal on any mobile device, especially the further you travel from a large populated area, recent BBC results showed many country areas only had 2G reception if any.

4. If I have driven a couple of hundred miles, I want to be able to relax, not go on a reconnaissance mission, but knowing where I can just do a quick stop is useful, and helps to a quick end to the journey.

Edited by Moote
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I don't see why this sort of information needs to be included on the cache page for an event.

 

When I go camping (or just head into a unfamiliar area for the day/weekend/week) I either

 

1, Research the area before I leave home.

2, Ask the camp site wardens (or other campers) on arrival (a lot of sites will include this info in their "welcome pack")

3, Look it up on my phone when i get there.

4, Have a drive round and use my eyes.

In response

 

1. Research sometimes does not give the best results, and why not be helpful, at least giving a starting point for people?

2. I'm sure the warden would be grateful for the Event setter to ask, and disseminate the answer, rather than have a string of long calls or letters / emails to answer.

3. It's foolish to assume you will get a decent signal on any mobile device, especially the further you travel from a large populated area, recent BBC results showed many country areas only had 2G reception if any.

4. If I have driven a couple of hundred miles, I want to be able to relax, not go on a reconnaissance mission, but knowing where I can just do a quick stop is useful, and helps to a quick end to the journey.

 

Simples: I just ask my sat nav in the van to list nearest retail outlets; however, my local Asda is 24 hour so I can call in and stock up with everything I'm likely to need prior to setting out for an event. I always have a check list of the items I have to take with me to ensure that nowt gets left behind.

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Simples: I just ask my sat nav in the van to list nearest retail outlets; however, my local Asda is 24 hour so I can call in and stock up with everything I'm likely to need prior to setting out for an event. I always have a check list of the items I have to take with me to ensure that nowt gets left behind.

 

Well that is an assumption that people have a Sat Nav, and that their POI's are up to date for that area. Also travelling long distances you do not want to be carrying things like eggs, milk, cheese, meat etc It's far better to get then when nearer, Fresh is Best

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Events in pubs, restaurants or camp-sites by their nature have to have commercial information so people know where it is and to give them basic information they may need to plan their visit. What isn't allowed is giving the pub, camp-site or any other business free advertising. For pubs the name and address and phone number is fine as is information such as whether it has disabled access, children are welcome, guide dogs only and that sort of thing. Telling people the pub does food is OK but don't provide a list of the beer they sell and what meal specials are available. A link to the menu is acceptable if the pub asks that people pre-order their meals. Otherwise there should be no commercial content about the place. If people want to know more they can Google the pub and visit the website. The same guidance would apply to restaurants or similar locations.

 

With events at a camp-site again the basic information people need to know about the location is acceptable. How to book a pitch, any restrictions about vehicles or campers and so on. If the camp-site has on-site shops then a basic mention that local facilities for shopping are available would be acceptable but going into detail what they sell in the shop, that the site has a hairdresser, swimming pool, bar etc or that there is a Tesco and Asda nearby isn't. Once again people planning to go can find this out themselves from the camp-site. I don't tkink anyone would find it difficult to use Google to find a nearby supermarket during their planning for the trip.

 

If you have more information you can provide it on a webpage and link to that page from the event. But again, don't put the link on the event page with a description of what they'll find when the go there. Just something simple like, "Click here for more information".

 

At the end of the day the page is about the event, not an advert for a pub or camp-site.

 

Now, before anyone starts reading through all the past and currently active event pages looking for things that don't conform to what I have said please be aware we do sometimes miss bits of text in cache pages when reviewing them and we are aware some pages get edited after publication to add additional information to them that would otherwise not have been allowed. Please don't start emailing long lists of such event pages to your local reviewer or listing them here. Just accept that sometimes things are not perfect :D

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

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Simples: I just ask my sat nav in the van to list nearest retail outlets; however, my local Asda is 24 hour so I can call in and stock up with everything I'm likely to need prior to setting out for an event. I always have a check list of the items I have to take with me to ensure that nowt gets left behind.

 

Well that is an assumption that people have a Sat Nav, and that their POI's are up to date for that area. Also travelling long distances you do not want to be carrying things like eggs, milk, cheese, meat etc It's far better to get then when nearer, Fresh is Best

 

I never assume that I can quickly obtain supplies at the place I'm going to. Eggs, milk, bacon, cheese etc aren't going to go "off" after drive of a couple of hundred of miles, at least I've never had these items go off and I don't use a cool box. I even carry bottles of water with me, saves having to hunt around for the water supply and I can get the kettle on as soon as I reach my destination.

 

As Chris states anyone going camping in a certain area can visit the website of their favourite supermarket to find out where the nearest store is to the camp site. If necessary check out the lat/long and use their GPSr to get there.

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I really appreciate any cache page that gives me the benefit of local knowledge.

I've found a couple of caches where the cache owner has said along the lines of "If you're thinking about lunch the Dog and Duck does food and is close to the cache but the Barge just along the road is much better as it has real ales and a friendlier atmosphere".

Or, "there is a small Co-op nearby but only a quarter of a mile away is a big Tesco". That's really helpful when it's not your local area and I'd hope that cachers include such details wherever it might seem useful, for events in particular but caches in general.

It might look like advertising to the bitter cynic, but in reality it's simply helping your fellow cacher. I'm sure reviewers aren't so stupid that they can't tell the difference between helpful advice and blatant advertising.

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So for the events would it be acceptable to say:

 

"There's a small supermarket at xxx and a large one at yyy."

 

but not acceptable to say:

 

"There's a Tesco Express at xxx and an Asda at yyy."

 

 

Alternatively, do what the Ripon Mega camping event did and put:

 

"We've placed a Supermarket Sweep cache at the local supermarkets"

Edited by MartyBartfast
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Hello Reviewers, Moderators, and the all round general Good guys of Groundspeak.

 

Could you please give some general guidance on how to point out the location of various amenities, in and around event locations, on a Event page . Usually this information is very useful for people who might be travelling 100's of miles to an event.

 

These might include, but not limited to, Camping shops, Supermarkets, Newsagents, Petrol Stations (Just in case one of our American cousins see this, that's a Gas Station)

 

Kindest of regards

 

Moote

 

What we have done for the past few years with our annually recurring event is to have a webpage with additional accommodation details / shops /petrol stations. This was done after asking reviewers what they thought was the best way to do it and we worked with them to make sure everything on the web page was OK for them to publish. It's not rocket science and having that sort of information on a separate page for those who want to know it keeps the cache page a lot less cluttered making more relevant information easier to see.

 

That said - if I'm going away for a weekend camping (without going to an event), I'm going to be checking out the area to see what caches interest me - it's not that difficult to check the same area for supermarkets and petrol stations. It shouldn't really be up to the camping event cache owner (who probably isn't local to the area either) to feed me every bit of information I should have found out myself. We are adults aren't we - not nursery children?

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Thanks Graculus

 

I understand the use of linking to an event webpage, such as Pirate Mania has done in the past, and see the benefits of that, but to many it is hard enough setting up a perfect page on Geocaching.com

 

Would this kind of link and description be OK.

 

A local supermarket can be found by clicking Here (Oh by the way that just a totally random place just provided for this example)

 

It was suggested that just going to your favourite Local supermarket website you could do your own search, but there are places up here in the North which do not have one of the Big 4, in fact Lancashire has a lot of a particular shop which is not found much outside the boundary of Lancashire and Cumbria, In fact it does tend to be the main Supermarket for many Lake District towns, so you might struggle if you are unaware of its name, so that in itself is a mountain to climb.

 

ferreter38,

Some people like fresh, you like to travel with your goods, that's your choice, other people prefer doing some if not all of their shopping local to the event, this is particularly important to tea drinkers, who prefer the tea blended for the water area, Yes that right, BG Tips, in London, is different to BG Tips in Manchester, to account for the differences in water. Also if you are travelling by Bus, Train, Plane or walking, you would probably want to not carry too much, not all Cachers have a car.

 

Team Clova

As mentioned in an earlier post of mine, it would not be unusual for the event organiser to gain local knowledge before, or soon after setting the event, this is the kind of thing which they usually (If a good event organiser) ask the camp site owner, and to make it easier on the site owner, disseminating this information would certainly make it far easier for all concerned, and help people who might be considering attending, but would require this kind of info before committing.

 

Marty and Bongtwashes, this is along the lines I'm thinking

HH

Thanks for the input, it's nice to hear your thoughts, they always make total sense, and I can't argue with your thoughts on this, I just wonder if Groundspeak would agree with them.

 

Thanks all for your input

Moote

Edited by Moote
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a) (ED: Mine) "If you're thinking about lunch the Dog and Duck does food and is close to the cache but the Barge just along the road is much better as it has real ales and a friendlier atmosphere". .........

 

letter after a) (ED: Mine)............ I'm sure reviewers aren't so stupid that they can't tell the difference between helpful advice and blatant advertising.

 

 

a) There was a time when such a phrase was not considered to be anything other than useful information.

 

letter after a) Unfortunately our stalwart reviewers often have their hands tied by GSP strict guidelines

 

 

edited for misleading and inadvertant smiley!

Edited by dodgydaved
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I'm with Happy Humphrey on this, we may all be able to find out information before hand, or when we reach our destination, for ourselves, but if someone has already done the research or has the local knowledge its always nice if they can share it, which is obviously all Moote wants to do, I know I would appreciate it.

 

I have never attended an event, camping or otherwise, but its always good when cache pages mention nearby refreshment options and especially parking.

 

I know when I set out a nice country series in my favourite place to walk ;) (as so many series setters seem to say) I will make sure I give info on local amenities and in particular parking details even if it seems blatently obvious. If it where I walk often and I know the place I want other people to enjoy it too, I don't want them wasting half and hour, annoying the local farmer or spending the walk worrying about whether they will have a mirror swiped off by passing tractors.

 

So many times I have driven round in circles trying to find a safe place to leave the car for a couple of hours and end up squeezing it onto a verge only to find when we leave there is a good spot down the road, yes I could have tried harder but if the CO already knows a good spot, let people know, if there isn't one let us know that too, then we can work around it.

 

Sorry that ended up being a rant about 'expecting' certain details didn't it, which wasn't what I intended, I don't expect my hand held at all, but all the same - If you have it, share your knowledge, its free and much appreciated especially by those who aren't local.

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HH

Thanks for the input, it's nice to hear your thoughts, they always make total sense, and I can't argue with your thoughts on this, I just wonder if Groundspeak would agree with them.

I seriously didn't think my thoughts in this case were very constructive, just a little bit of humour.

 

For what it is worth, you have so far got my support on what you are trying to get a proper understanding of.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hang on did I just say I agreed with Moote? Flippin Eck!! :rolleyes:

 

As long as you stay on the lines you are at the moment that support shall remain.

 

eedit fir speeling

Edited by Haggis Hunter
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HH

Thanks for the input, it's nice to hear your thoughts, they always make total sense, and I can't argue with your thoughts on this, I just wonder if Groundspeak would agree with them.

I seriously didn't think my thoughts in this case were very constructive, just a little bit of humour.

 

For what it is worth, you have so far got my support on what you are trying to get a proper understanding of.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hang on did I just say I agreed with Moote? Flippin Eck!! :rolleyes:

 

As long as you stay on the lines you are at the moment that support shall remain.

 

eedit fir speeling

HH > Haggis Hunter Ah you posted whilst I was in full construct, I meant the other HH > Happy Humphrey, but thank you for the support :)

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I'm with Happy Humphrey on this, we may all be able to find out information before hand, or when we reach our destination, for ourselves, but if someone has already done the research or has the local knowledge its always nice if they can share it, which is obviously all Moote wants to do, I know I would appreciate it.

 

I have never attended an event, camping or otherwise, but its always good when cache pages mention nearby refreshment options and especially parking.

 

I know when I set out a nice country series in my favourite place to walk ;) (as so many series setters seem to say) I will make sure I give info on local amenities and in particular parking details even if it seems blatently obvious. If it where I walk often and I know the place I want other people to enjoy it too, I don't want them wasting half and hour, annoying the local farmer or spending the walk worrying about whether they will have a mirror swiped off by passing tractors.

 

So many times I have driven round in circles trying to find a safe place to leave the car for a couple of hours and end up squeezing it onto a verge only to find when we leave there is a good spot down the road, yes I could have tried harder but if the CO already knows a good spot, let people know, if there isn't one let us know that too, then we can work around it.

 

Sorry that ended up being a rant about 'expecting' certain details didn't it, which wasn't what I intended, I don't expect my hand held at all, but all the same - If you have it, share your knowledge, its free and much appreciated especially by those who aren't local.

Oh this is far from a rant, it's well augmented :)

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I have never attended an event, camping or otherwise, but its always good when cache pages mention nearby refreshment options and especially parking.

 

I know when I set out a nice country series in my favourite place to walk ;) (as so many series setters seem to say) I will make sure I give info on local amenities and in particular parking details even if it seems blatently obvious. If it where I walk often and I know the place I want other people to enjoy it too, I don't want them wasting half and hour, annoying the local farmer or spending the walk worrying about whether they will have a mirror swiped off by passing tractors.

 

So many times I have driven round in circles trying to find a safe place to leave the car for a couple of hours and end up squeezing it onto a verge only to find when we leave there is a good spot down the road, yes I could have tried harder but if the CO already knows a good spot, let people know, if there isn't one let us know that too, then we can work around it.

 

Sorry that ended up being a rant about 'expecting' certain details didn't it, which wasn't what I intended, I don't expect my hand held at all, but all the same - If you have it, share your knowledge, its free and much appreciated especially by those who aren't local.

 

I agree regarding parking places, in my case far more useful than where the supermarket is as I drive a LWB Transit and finding somewhere to park that can be tricky.

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I agree regarding parking places, in my case far more useful than where the supermarket is as I drive a LWB Transit and finding somewhere to park that can be tricky.

Please can I pull this back on topic, the original question was pitted to the Moderators, Reviewers, and Groundspeak, whilst I'm happy for opinions of others on the matter, you have pointed out yours and I wholly respect your point of view, but that does not get to the bottom of what would be allowable in terms of information that can be supplied, without upsetting the powers that be.

 

There is already a valid method of placing parking information, it's up to cachers to use that.

Edited by Moote
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Simples: I just ask my sat nav in the van to list nearest retail outlets; however, my local Asda is 24 hour so I can call in and stock up with everything I'm likely to need prior to setting out for an event. I always have a check list of the items I have to take with me to ensure that nowt gets left behind.

 

Well that is an assumption that people have a Sat Nav, and that their POI's are up to date for that area. Also travelling long distances you do not want to be carrying things like eggs, milk, cheese, meat etc It's far better to get then when nearer, Fresh is Best

 

If people are going to a geocaching event it's not unreasonable to assume they have a GPS of some form.

 

Aside from that you make good points, I'd rather buy things like milk and eggs locally than travel any great distance with them.

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Simples: I just ask my sat nav in the van to list nearest retail outlets; however, my local Asda is 24 hour so I can call in and stock up with everything I'm likely to need prior to setting out for an event. I always have a check list of the items I have to take with me to ensure that nowt gets left behind.

 

Well that is an assumption that people have a Sat Nav, and that their POI's are up to date for that area. Also travelling long distances you do not want to be carrying things like eggs, milk, cheese, meat etc It's far better to get then when nearer, Fresh is Best

 

If people are going to a geocaching event it's not unreasonable to assume they have a GPS of some form.

 

Aside from that you make good points, I'd rather buy things like milk and eggs locally than travel any great distance with them.

Oh I agree they'll more than likely have a GPS, but they don't usually come with every POI you might require, and popping a set of Co-ords on the cache page to the local Tesda or Morrisbury's supermarket would aid its pre-event population.

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Ouch! I find myself agreeing with Moote again :o While I can understand the reason to want to stop geocaches being created purely as a marketing tool I believe, as I have always done, that reviewers should be allowed to use common sense to read a cache page and make a decision as to whether the setter is trying to actively promote something for commercial purposes or whether they are trying to help other cachers.

 

Yes, that would inevitably lead to some inconsistencies but in my mind, better that than the ludicrous situation being described in this thread. Reviewers are chosen among other things for their intelligence and integrity (yes really!) so they should be trusted to use those attributes.

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It really does seam obvious that the UK Geocache Reviewers and Groundspeak, are not in the least bit interested in this, and as such should "put up or shut up" when making comments about links to supermarkets or other useful amenities, on Event pages, the only reviewer to post on this thread washed around the question and did not actually answer it, so this issue can't be that much of a show stopper on Event pages.

 

Moote

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