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Electrical Box Hides


AneMae

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I have sent the CO of the caches I am concerned about a message expressing my reservations, and a link to the blog post.

I hope they do not take offence, but I feel being proactive on this is important.

 

what exactly is your concern with this caches? i don't see anything remotely making them look real :unsure:

 

They look real enough! Besides read what I posted from Johnny-Geo's blog. That explains it all.

 

if those look real i'm the Queen of England :lol:

 

you can spot them a mile away as fakes, if they were in the middle of real electrical boxes i would understand your concern

 

i wish i had a dollar for every thread on this subject and that blog being mentioned

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People got very sick and even die from Lymes disease. You should avoid all caches that are near and vegation or where you must cross vegation to get to the cache.
Don't forget the thousands and thousands of traffic deaths every year. We'd better stop driving to trailheads, or (gasp!) finding P&G caches.

This is not a nanny sport. You are responsible for your own safety. It odd run by republicans not democrats

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People got very sick and even die from Lymes disease. You should avoid all caches that are near and vegation or where you must cross vegation to get to the cache.
Don't forget the thousands and thousands of traffic deaths every year. We'd better stop driving to trailheads, or (gasp!) finding P&G caches.

This is not a nanny sport. You are responsible for your own safety. It odd run by republicans not democrats

 

The above written by a republican and not a democrat.

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I have sent the CO of the caches I am concerned about a message expressing my reservations, and a link to the blog post.

I hope they do not take offence, but I feel being proactive on this is important.

 

what exactly is your concern with this caches? i don't see anything remotely making them look real :unsure:

 

That picture looks exactly like what I was reaching for before it started sparking.

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I have sent the CO of the caches I am concerned about a message expressing my reservations, and a link to the blog post.

I hope they do not take offence, but I feel being proactive on this is important.

 

what exactly is your concern with this caches? i don't see anything remotely making them look real :unsure:

 

They look real enough! Besides read what I posted from Johnny-Geo's blog. That explains it all.

One more stick to the dead horse...

If you are so concerned about is it real or not - WHY did you open them? :huh:

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Common sense where is it now days.

Electricity is going to follow the easiest course to ground, for instance the mentioned transmission tower,built from metal beams bolted to to cement usually, that are buried in the ground, or the green transformer boxes bolted to cement again buried in the ground. Nothing's impossible but it's highly improbable that you'd get hurt from 1 of the above.

Now digging around inside a light pole with the wires that could be different, I can see the possibility of getting shocked.

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I am one who has posted the link to that electrical blog many times myself.

 

But as others have alluded to, your stance on these is a bit extreme.

 

Electrical safety is important, but you can get overboard on anything.

 

You asked us for opinions, 80% thought there was no problem with these caches; 20% were up in arms over them, so you went with the 20%. Why did you ask?

 

The fact is that there is a cache at the bottom of an abandoned nuclear reactor. There is one at the bottom of the Atlantic ocean. There are scuba caches that can be very dangerous. There are caches you can only get with ropes and climbing gear.

 

If you are going to get up-in-arms over the ones you mention, you might want to stop caching now.

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That's the way extremists operate. Try to get a mob to get their way and if they can't they'll move on and try to get their way using other means. An open mind and listening to others isn't in the play book.

Sad really.

Even if most people who posted on this topic appear to find many electrical box hides to be acceptable, that doesn't mean the OP has to follow suit. She might well have read many viewpoints and reached her own conclusion. An open mind is even better when it's also an independent mind.

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Even if most people who posted on this topic appear to find many electrical box hides to be acceptable, that doesn't mean the OP has to follow suit. She might well have read many viewpoints and reached her own conclusion. An open mind is even better when it's also an independent mind.

True, however they stated they read the other threads so they had plenty of previous opinions to read though. This thread really seemed like a failed attempt to rally more people to their (the OP) already formed opinion on the subject.

I'm just glad it wasn't in all caps like the last one.

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I still question why if the OP was afraid of these caches, not only for themselves, but for others, Why did they touch or tamper with something they thought was dangerous. :unsure:

I can't explain why the little :) was so important the OP risked death to get it. Maybe she'll pop back in and answer that for you.

 

As far as the concern for others... IMO it's basically a Nanny State mentality. I realize others will disagree. It's a polarizing topic. (See how I made that electrical joke back there a little ways?)

 

I freely admit there are SOME concerns associated with this type of hide. I just don't think they are grave enough to warrant a ban.

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OK to address a few things here. I am a He not a she- but it really doesn't matter. I have training in electrical systems- so I was cautious but informed when I checked these out these caches. This is not about me- it is about keeping a "family friendly" activity safe for everyone. Just because 80% of the respondents think these are OK does not mean they are- and they are not. Not according to electrical safety authorities, or anyone that employs a basic level of common sense.

Our hobby does not need this added risk.

 

Furthermore, Groundspeak may not have any rules about these types of hides, but they do have rules about placing caches on private property- and caches placed on electrical infrastructure are on private property - and I bet 99% of the time without permission. Electrical authorities understand the risks and are smart enough to tell people NO they cannot place devices on their equipment. So these caches simply should not be there.

So what to do about them?

1. Don't place them- for the benefit and safety of all Geocachers. Don't risk someones life because you want to hide a cache. Don't cache on private property.

2. Educate the CO's of these caches when they are found. I did that- but have not yet received a response

3. If they are clearly in violation or pose a possible danger, remove (or have a qualified person do it) the cache. I have not resorted to this yet, but don't think for a second I wouldn't do it if I felt the circumstances warranted it.

 

I am a cop. A type A personality. I believe in and follow the rules. I believe in and promote safety. Nanny state? Maybe, but we have seatbelt laws, helmet laws and other common sense rules that benefit us as a whole. Geocaching should be no different.

 

To the poster who suggested I stop Geocaching- why would I do that? I have great fun doing it, solo and with my family. But don't think I will accept inappropriate or dangerous cache hides when I find them. I do cache with my wife and two small children.

 

Yes I pretty much had my mind made up before I made the OP- but I felt the issue warranted a discussion. An issue that needs to be brought to peoples attention. Weather they agree or not. At least it gets them thinking and maybe they will consider this when planning a hide.

It is as simple as this: Do the right thing, use common sense, and be responsible, period.

 

Guess this may come off as a bit of a rant, but that is how I feel about this. And yes, I am having fun!

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I have training in electrical systems- so I was cautious but informed when I checked these out these caches. This is not about me- it is about keeping a "family friendly" activity safe for everyone. Just because 80% of the respondents think these are OK does not mean they are- and they are not. Not according to electrical safety authorities, or anyone that employs a basic level of common sense.

First let me just say a big thank you for deciding that while you may be 'informed' enough to check out those catches obviously the rest of us are incapable of also doing the same. Its always nice when the 'better' folks toss us poor misguided folks a helping hand.

 

Second let me apologize for my lack of a basic level of common sense since I didn't immediately fall on my knees and sing your praises for the wonderful mission you are undertaking on my behalf. I guess I'm just to silly to know I didn't have that basic level. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm sure everyone who also didn't agree with you has surely changed their tune now.

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Nanny state? Maybe, but we have seatbelt laws, helmet laws and other common sense rules that benefit us as a whole. Geocaching should be no different.

 

For the record, I believe seatbelt laws and helmet laws are an unnecessary intrusion on my personal freedoms. Also for the record I was wearing both long before anyone told me I had to.

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Nanny state? Maybe, but we have seatbelt laws, helmet laws and other common sense rules that benefit us as a whole. Geocaching should be no different.

 

For the record, I believe seatbelt laws and helmet laws are an unnecessary intrusion on my personal freedoms. Also for the record I was wearing both long before anyone told me I had to.

From what I understand, seatbelt and helmet laws are there because the more injuries and deaths there are, the more our local services are taxed. The more the police, fire, and aid workers have to scoop up and care for people after accidents, the more we have to pay out and use services that could help others. If this is the case, then I don't have as much of a problem with it.

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Nanny state? Maybe, but we have seatbelt laws, helmet laws and other common sense rules that benefit us as a whole. Geocaching should be no different.

 

For the record, I believe seatbelt laws and helmet laws are an unnecessary intrusion on my personal freedoms. Also for the record I was wearing both long before anyone told me I had to.

From what I understand, seatbelt and helmet laws are there because the more injuries and deaths there are, the more our local services are taxed. The more the police, fire, and aid workers have to scoop up and care for people after accidents, the more we have to pay out and use services that could help others. If this is the case, then I don't have as much of a problem with it.

 

Just rate the cache appropriately. If it is obvious that it can't be powered and it isn't placed near anything that is powered then it gets a terrain rating appropriate for the terrain. If it can be easily mistaken for a powered box or if it is located near a powered box that can be easily mistaken for a geocache then give it a terrain rating of 5 because special tools like these are needed to keep you from potentially getting shocked.

Edited by Glenn
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Nanny state? Maybe, but we have seatbelt laws, helmet laws and other common sense rules that benefit us as a whole. Geocaching should be no different.

 

For the record, I believe seatbelt laws and helmet laws are an unnecessary intrusion on my personal freedoms. Also for the record I was wearing both long before anyone told me I had to.

From what I understand, seatbelt and helmet laws are there because the more injuries and deaths there are, the more our local services are taxed. The more the police, fire, and aid workers have to scoop up and care for people after accidents, the more we have to pay out and use services that could help others. If this is the case, then I don't have as much of a problem with it.

 

Just rate the cache appropriately. If it is obvious that it can't be powered and it isn't placed near anything that is powered then it gets a terrain rating appropriate for the terrain. If it can be easily mistaken for a powered box or if it is located near a powered box that can be easily mistaken for a geocache then give it a terrain rating of 5 because special tools like these are needed to keep you from potentially getting shocked.

 

A terrain rating of 5 is no excuse for exposing someone to this type of danger.

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Agreed. And being a cop is no excuse for not using common sense in these matters.

 

No tools no problem. A magnet on a pole isn't dangerous and if someone sees that and thinks, "now I can open electrical equipment" then I say it's time to thin the heard.

 

And stop with the kids argument. I cache with kids and take their safety as my responsibility.

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And stop with the kids argument. I cache with kids and take their safety as my responsibility.

Thank you for this post. Seriously. I get so tired of the 'can't do X because kids might Y' straw man argument often given as an excuse for banning something. I wish all parents considered themselves as the one responsible to watch over their children.

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Yes I pretty much had my mind made up before I made the OP- but I felt the issue warranted a discussion. An issue that needs to be brought to peoples attention. Weather they agree or not.
I'm confused. Does it warrant a discussion, or is it an issue that needs to brought to everyone's attention whether or not they agree? I'm not sure how it can be both.

 

Anyway, from your initial post, you seem to think that utility boxes and blank outlet cover plates should never be used as geocaches. How about some other cache types, such as:

  • fake outlet wall safes? fake surge protector safes? fake light fixture safes? Are they okay for non-geocaching use, but not as geocaches?
  • fake fire alarms? fake security cameras? Does it matter if they're in remote locations, miles from electrical service?
  • a "micro in the woods" cache that uses an old microwave oven as the cache container?
  • caches that use low-voltage solar path lights?
  • caches that use electric motors to unlock (or to provide access to) the container?
  • caches that use electronic systems to provide information needed to determine the location of the next stage?
  • caches that require the use of electronic devices that receive electromagnetic signals from satellites?

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Common Sense: The Cambridge Dictionary defines it as, "the basic level of practical knowledge and judgment that we all need to help us live in a reasonable and safe way".

 

I can tell by the last few posts that "common sense" is not as common as I thought. It is clear some people are just trying to push buttons.

Like I said before my points have been made clearly enough here and I am done. It is in your hands to be on the right side or the wrong side of this issue. Yes I think it is pretty black and white, for obvious reasons.

See you on the trails.

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I can tell by the last few posts that "common sense" is not as common as I thought.

 

Not quite, it's the other way around. If something isn't "commonly" in most people's minds, then it's not common sense. Those things might just be your opinions. :rolleyes:

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This is not about me- it is about keeping a "family friendly" activity safe for everyone.

 

so you think "family" automatically involves having children...well let me break this to you...it doesn't...a husband and a wife are still a "family" even in the absence of children, the so called D.I.N.K.s, and our notion of "family friendly" is very different than yours

 

so according to your theory about "family friendly" those caches should not exist because they are dangerous thus not "family friendly"

 

so basically according to you, because i don't have kids my life should be restricted to doing activities that someone with kids can do?

 

thus depriving me of having fun

 

The Northern Light -Technical Scuba Cache-

 

The Queen of Nassau -Technical Scuba Cache-

 

as a parent you have a responsibility to protect your children from harm...please do not extend it beyond that scope

Edited by t4e
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Common Sense: The Cambridge Dictionary defines it as, "the basic level of practical knowledge and judgment that we all need to help us live in a reasonable and safe way".

I can tell by the last few posts that "common sense" is not as common as I thought. It is clear some people are just trying to push buttons.

Like I said before my points have been made clearly enough here and I am done. It is in your hands to be on the right side or the wrong side of this issue. Yes I think it is pretty black and white, for obvious reasons.

See you on the trails.

And that's what I use every time I cache and exactly why I think there is nothing wrong with caches you showed us.

 

Are you try to cliam that we are not smart enough to take care of ourselves and need you to hold our hands to and from the caches?

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Not looking for a "Flame War" here as somebody else has mentioned. Just want thoughts and opinions from some more experienced cachers.

From what I read on the cache page there was permission to place the one on the building. The lamp post I am not sure.

I am not too concerned about the permission aspect though, more so for the danger aspect when it comes to the "electrical" nature of the hide and what it could lead to. Encouraging people to take apart electrical apparatus is somewhat troubling to me, (my personal opinion)

I just wanted to see what others thought of what I found here today. Clearly there will be a wide range of opinions- I am interested in hearing them all.

Any electricians or electrical safety authority persons out there? Would especially like to hear what they have to say about these.

 

I spent 35 years as an electrician, and I have no problem with this sort of hide.

 

The first rule of electricity (IMO) is, "if you don't like it, then there's something wrong". This can be paraphrased to "if you don't like it, then you shouldn't hunt it".

 

I carry what we call a tic tracer in my bag. If I'm zeroing out near a box like what's in the first two pics, I'll get it out, and see what it tells me. If I see one like the other two pics, I'll see if it moves. However, with or without the tracer, if I don't like something about what I'm seeing, or if I get a "feeling", I'll walk away.

 

The blog is about what I would expect from a professional safety advocate. I know that he has everyone's best interest at heart, and I applaud his devotion to safety. But I don't need to be baby-sat by anyone. And, I noticed that nowhere does he mention ever being a working electrician. This leads me to believe that he is only speaking from the Government's Safety Department's POV. Which is usually alarmist. We only had two official safety people that were really electricians where I worked. Their function was to go to meetings (really). The folks that did the safety inspections and investigations had NO practical knowledge at all. All they knew was what the book said...which was usually way more worrisome than real life.

 

Sadly, you are taking the opinion of one, and only one person as the be-all and end-all. That being the case, you will most likely not listen to anyone else, no matter how long they were in the industry.

 

I know you're "informed", and evidently more knowledgeable about this sort of thing than most. BTW, how informed is a cop about electricity, anyway? After 35 years, I still don't know everything about it.

 

This subject comes up every 2-3 months. And it stirs up emotions right and left.

 

Don't try to get Groundspeak or anyone else to legislate safety. It doesn't work. If you (I mean the generic "you", not the OP in particular) have kids, teach them. Don't wait for them to get hurt.

 

If you don't like these sort of hides, then walk away. It's that simple. They don't all have to be found. And we don't need to be watched over.

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Not this thread again!!

 

I have to teach my children about outlets before they get big enough to remove the little safety plugs themselves.

 

And I have to show them about all manner of fun and dangers associated with hiking and camping and caching and driving.

 

It would be sad for caching if we couldn't use ammo cans(warning stencils), pipes, electric stuff, lock-n-locks(broke a fingernail once opening one).

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Common Sense: The Cambridge Dictionary defines it as, "the basic level of practical knowledge and judgment that we all need to help us live in a reasonable and safe way".

 

I can tell by the last few posts that "common sense" is not as common as I thought. It is clear some people are just trying to push buttons.

Like I said before my points have been made clearly enough here and I am done. It is in your hands to be on the right side or the wrong side of this issue. Yes I think it is pretty black and white, for obvious reasons.

See you on the trails.

 

I should have taken the opportunity to apologize for assuming you were a woman in my last post. I should have looked at your profile. I'm sorry I called you a girl. (Not that there's anything wrong with that. :P )

 

I'm glad you posted the definition of common sense. I think that's the crux of this discussion. Common sense is enough to keep us safe in this instance. It should carry the day. We don't need bans or restrictions.

 

You brought up seat belt and helmet laws. Many or even most people are "okay" with these laws. As time passes we have more and more restrictions placed upon us "for our own good" by an increasingly oppressive government. Now we have legislators banning trans-fats and attempting to ban salt. Where do you draw the line?

 

I was being a little sarcastic about you risking your life to find these caches but really, why did you play with these if you think they are unsafe? My guess is your common sense told you that they weren't real. Let the rest of us use ours.

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I would think it's OK if they are magnetic. If you have to use a screwdriver to access the logbook (that looks real), then the cacher will start unscrewing real electric boxes to look for the cache. This is like sprinkler caches, there needs to be a (nearly obvious) way to look and tell that it isn't real.

 

The problem with both of these ideas is that once you get it in your head to check these places, you are tempted to look for this type of location when the actual cache, hidden differently, doesn't turn up. I think disassembling a sprinkler could end up being mildly destructive in some circumstances.

 

True. I was searching for what was a fairly difficult cache. Coords put it at the edge of a museum parking lot. Every single legit electrical box in the parking lot was damaged from people trying to force them open. The thing is the actual cache was not in a fake electrical box, it wasn't even in the parking lot.

 

If someone suspects that a cache is in a fake electrical box, a little tug to see if its magnetically sealed is fine but people should never be unscrewing them or worse yet, trying to force them open.

Edited by briansnat
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Just rate the cache appropriately. If it is obvious that it can't be powered and it isn't placed near anything that is powered then it gets a terrain rating appropriate for the terrain. If it can be easily mistaken for a powered box or if it is located near a powered box that can be easily mistaken for a geocache then give it a terrain rating of 5 because special tools like these are needed to keep you from potentially getting shocked.

 

A terrain rating of 5 is no excuse for exposing someone to this type of danger.

 

As Geocachers we are potentially exposed to all kinds of dangers outside of our experience and expertise. When that situation occurs our expectation is that the CO gives the cache a high terrain rating to alert geocachers of the unusual danger associated with finding the cache. Typically we as a community do well when the danger involves the possibility of falling, like caches where climbing equipment is needed, or the possibility of drowning, like caches where a boat is needed. As a community we typically fail to rate caches appropriately when the potential danger is death by electric shock. Fortunately that danger can be mitigated with the use of proper PPE and attention can be brought to the situation with an appropriate terrain rating.

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I have sent the CO of the caches I am concerned about a message expressing my reservations, and a link to the blog post.

I hope they do not take offence, but I feel being proactive on this is important.

 

what exactly is your concern with this caches? i don't see anything remotely making them look real :unsure:

 

They look real enough! Besides read what I posted from Johnny-Geo's blog. That explains it all.

One more stick to the dead horse...

If you are so concerned about is it real or not - WHY did you open them? :huh:

And why did you claim the smilies, thus encouraging others to do the same?

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I would think it's OK if they are magnetic. If you have to use a screwdriver to access the logbook (that looks real), then the cacher will start unscrewing real electric boxes to look for the cache. This is like sprinkler caches, there needs to be a (nearly obvious) way to look and tell that it isn't real.

 

The problem with both of these ideas is that once you get it in your head to check these places, you are tempted to look for this type of location when the actual cache, hidden differently, doesn't turn up. I think disassembling a sprinkler could end up being mildly destructive in some circumstances.

True. I was searching for what was a fairly difficult cache. Coords put it at the edge of a museum parking lot. Every single legit electrical box in the parking lot was damaged from people trying to force them open. The thing is the actual cache was not in a fake electrical box, it wasn't even in the parking lot.

 

If someone suspects that a cache is in a fake electrical box, a little tug to see if its magnetically sealed is fine but people should never be unscrewing them or worse yet, trying to force them open.

I understand your concern about collateral damage when people make incorrect assumptions but that phenomenon isn't exclusive to fake electrical box or sprinkler head caches. Unfortunately, whenever a cache is hard to find, some people invariably tear up the surrounding area looking for it.

 

Edit: Clarity

Edited by Trinity's Crew
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I can tell by the last few posts that "common sense" is not as common as I thought. It is clear some people are just trying to push buttons.
No pun intended? ;)

 

Anyway, mine was one of the last few posts, so maybe you think I'm just trying to push your buttons. But I am genuinely curious where you might draw the line. Clearly, you draw the line in a very different place than I do, because I don't see a problem with the two caches described in your initial post, while you see an "inherent danger" that "needs to be brought to peoples attention".

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Some people sure have strong feelings about this. I'm not sure, but I suspect it is growing up with parents and teachers who taught us that electricity is dangerous. And of course it is. People are electrocuted all the time. However electrocution from electrical equipment that the public might come into casual contact with (e.g., lightpoles and green pad-mounted transformers) are rare. Certainly there have been cases of stray voltages on lightpoles, and clearly if you reach into some box with live electrical wires you can get a jolt.

 

The overwhelming majority of geocaching hides are probably no riskier that if you leaned against a lightpole or a green box to rest. This equipment is designed to be safe for people and especially for children to be around. (Note: the power companies do post warnings on these transformers to keep people away and there does seem to be a particular concern with children playing with the equipment. Sometimes the locks on the access doors have been damaged by vandalism or other occurrence and and the concern is that a curious child will look to see what is inside.)

 

In addition there are some camouflage techniques where the cache is an electrical junction box or a plate, generally attached by magnets. Often these items are attached to something with no electrical connection to begin with.

 

The objection to these safe hides seems to be that they will encourage either unsafe hides or give a mixed message about electrical safety (especially to children). While I don't see strong evidence of this, I am willing to accept there may be some reason for concern. I have seen occasional hides where I've questioned why the cache was put where there was a danger of coming in contact with wires. In some cases, I've chosen not to hunt that cache. While I've not noticed it with electrical hides, I have seen sprinklers disassembled by cachers looking for a fake sprinkler. So I suppose that someone may try to open a real junction box thinking it is a cache.

 

My personal opinion is that the use of sprinklers and electrical boxes as camouflage can add something to the game, so long as there is a easy way to determine the fake cache from the real thing. This can be as simple as being attached magnetically so the cache can be removed with a gentle tug. On the other hand, hiding a cache on electrical equipment seems somewhat unnecessary. There are plenty of urban locations where a cache can be hidden other than on something electrical. As has been pointed out, this equipment is generally the property of the power company; and no matter whose property it is, it seems unlikely that permission would be given to hide on these boxes. Lightpole skirts might conceivably have permission, since the poles are probably owned by the property owner and there is no real safety issue in lifting the skirt.

 

(Edit added note because I indicated that a pad mounted transformer is designed to be safe; yet the power company website do tell people to stay away and give particular concern to keeping children away).

Edited by tozainamboku
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1327634757[/url]' post='4957712']

Common Sense: The Cambridge Dictionary defines it as, "the basic level of practical knowledge and judgment that we all need to help us live in a reasonable and safe way".

 

I can tell by the last few posts that "common sense" is not as common as I thought. It is clear some people are just trying to push buttons.

Like I said before my points have been made clearly enough here and I am done. It is in your hands to be on the right side or the wrong side of this issue. Yes I think it is pretty black and white, for obvious reasons.

See you on the trails.

 

This post is insulting. Who are you to determine that the clear majority are less capable than you to identify a danger? Do you think you alone have a monopoly on 'common sense'?

 

Here's an article I found that would suggest otherwise. Maybe you should focus your efforts on enforcing existing rules and not try to branch out to developing new ones.

 

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Common Sense: The Cambridge Dictionary defines it as, "the basic level of practical knowledge and judgment that we all need to help us live in a reasonable and safe way".

 

I can tell by the last few posts that "common sense" is not as common as I thought. It is clear some people are just trying to push buttons.

Like I said before my points have been made clearly enough here and I am done. It is in your hands to be on the right side or the wrong side of this issue. Yes I think it is pretty black and white, for obvious reasons.

See you on the trails.

 

Common sense would tell you to not alienate a group of people that share a hobby with you because you disagree w/ them. You are not one to talk about common sense.

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I would think it's OK if they are magnetic. If you have to use a screwdriver to access the logbook (that looks real), then the cacher will start unscrewing real electric boxes to look for the cache. This is like sprinkler caches, there needs to be a (nearly obvious) way to look and tell that it isn't real.

 

The problem with both of these ideas is that once you get it in your head to check these places, you are tempted to look for this type of location when the actual cache, hidden differently, doesn't turn up. I think disassembling a sprinkler could end up being mildly destructive in some circumstances.

 

True. I was searching for what was a fairly difficult cache. Coords put it at the edge of a museum parking lot. Every single legit electrical box in the parking lot was damaged from people trying to force them open. The thing is the actual cache was not in a fake electrical box, it wasn't even in the parking lot.

 

If someone suspects that a cache is in a fake electrical box, a little tug to see if its magnetically sealed is fine but people should never be unscrewing them or worse yet, trying to force them open.

 

I agree. On general principles I think these hides should be identifiable on close visual inspection, and preferably far enough from live equipment that there is no risk.

 

However, for all the OP's experience with electricity, it doesn't apparently carry over to the statistics of electrocution. Hundreds of people are electrocuted in the US every year. This is undeniable, and a terrible thing. So there is no argument that damaged electrical equipment can be EXCEEDINGLY dangerous. On the other hand, thousands upon thousands die in automobile accidents. Therefore, you would likely be safer walking next door to "Reddy Kilowatt's Horrible Micro Amongst The Electrical Boxes", than you would be driving across town to "Mr. Happy's Super Safe 1/1 along the paved bike path in the park". (BTW, I would still assert that a micro hidden amongst live electrical gear is a terrible idea.) For that matter, you are more likely to get mugged while caching than electrocuted.

 

The only thing I really take away from this discussion is that caches hidden around or especially IN damaged or vandalized but live electrical gear should just be disabled or archived when discovered, pretty much without question, because while electrocution may be rare, damaged equipment is PRECISELY what is responsible for most of them. (BTW, I believe most of the deaths from electrocution happen in the home, from faulty appliances.)

 

I just can't see how this is a huge problem.

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I see the biggest issue is that we all try to apply the "common sense" term to situations that it does not apply. For those that have electricity, it is common sense to flip the light switch to turn it on. Fora person raised in an part of the work without electricity, it is not common. In the West, you flip the switch up. In other parts, the swich goes down to go on.

 

So... the application of "common sense" to this because the general community doesn't know the difference between these and live boxes is probably not a good premise.

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Top 10 Causes of Accidental Death

 

Life is full of accidents. From spilling your milk to elbowing your loved one in the night. These particular accidents however result is something much worse than a black eye. These are the top 10 accidents that could land you 6 feet under. 10. Electrocution

~500 Deaths / Year

 

There is about a 1 in 10,000 chance you'll inadvertently join the some 4,500 inmates who have died by electrocution. Better be careful next time you're changing the light bulb.

 

9. Getting Hit by a Car

~1,100 Deaths / Year

 

Didn't your mama teach you to look both ways before crossing the street? Think twice next time you step off the curb and expect someone jabbering on their cell phone to give a dadgum.

 

8. Firearm Discharge

~1,150 Deaths / Year

 

Yah, you have the right to bear arms. Just put a lock on it! The odds of your kid getting whacked by a loaded firearm are about 1 in 5000.

 

7. Complications with Medical Procedure

~3,000 Deaths / Year

 

Going under the knife? Better make sure Doc is on his game before you let him rub on your innards.

 

6. Choking

~3,200 Deaths / Year

 

Know the Heimlich maneuver? You might consider learning since 3,200 people died from choking on a gobstopper or a piece of fillet mignon. Who knows you might just be a hero.

 

5. Drowning

~3,500 Deaths / Year

 

Swimming, bathing, boating, or any other activity to do with water results in thousands of people accidentally drowning to death. Maybe Steve Jobs should market iGills.

 

4. Fire

~3,700 Deaths / Year

 

Dying in a fire would really have to suck. Being burned to death has always been one of my worst fears. The odds of dying from smoke inhalation, a falling beam, a back draft, or just plain burning to death are about 1 in 1000.

 

3. Poisoning

~9,500 Deaths / Year

 

People just love to overdose on their drugs. This also includes accidental poisonings like swigging some Windex or Clorox. My wife and I called Poison Control a couple years ago when our 2 year old downed half a bottle of KY Jelly. Thankfully all that did was give her "the runs" for about a week.

 

2. Falling

~15,000 Deaths / Year

 

Bob Saget cashed in on the #2 accidental death with America's Funniest Home Video. I guess it really is surprising how many people fall off a ladder and through a plate glass window to meet there demise. Your odds of doing the same are 1 in 218!

 

1. Car Crash

~44,000 Deaths / Year

 

No real surprise here. If you've been driving for 5 years or so you've probably been in an accident. Thankfully for you it wasn't fatal.

 

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