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Buyer Beware!?


Totem Clan

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Just to see what side of issue people fall on this issue. Also to see how think on this matches the community, I'll ask you this.

 

All of these assume that the cache is present and in good repair.

 

If you go out and try to find a cache and you don't like the cache because of where it brought you, who's to blame?

If you go to a cache and find that you can't complete the cache because it requires extra work or puzzle or so on, who's to blame.

If you go to a cache and it note your style so you don't like it, who's to blame?

If you go to a cache without reading the cache page and don't like the cache, who's to blame?

 

Also

 

How much does the CO need to tell you about the cache?

How much does the cacher need to do before going after caches?

Does the CO owe the cacher anything or is it 'cacher' beware?

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Just to see what side of issue people fall on this issue. Also to see how think on this matches the community, I'll ask you this.

 

All of these assume that the cache is present and in good repair.

 

If you go out and try to find a cache and you don't like the cache because of where it brought you, who's to blame?

I research all caches I hunt, if the cache takes me to an unpleasant spot, I blame myself.

 

If you go to a cache and find that you can't complete the cache because it requires extra work or puzzle or so on, who's to blame.
The owner if he fails to mention this on the cache page. Some degree of mystery should be expected when hunting multis and mystery caches.

 

If you go to a cache and it note your style so you don't like it, who's to blame?
Myself if I failed to research the cache first.

 

If you go to a cache without reading the cache page and don't like the cache, who's to blame?
Myself.

 

 

How much does the CO need to tell you about the cache? Some information is appreciated, however I don't need my hand held to find caches.

 

How much does the cacher need to do before going after caches?
To satisfy my own caching ethics, I do lots of research.

 

Does the CO owe the cacher anything or is it 'cacher' beware?

Depends on the cacher.
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If you go out and try to find a cache and you don't like the cache because of where it brought you, who's to blame?

It depends on how descriptive of the location the cache page was. If it was a bare-bones cache page, then I place some blame on the owner for choosing to place it there and I had no way of knowing what it would be like. If the page described the location, then it's on me for going after it anyway.

If you go to a cache and find that you can't complete the cache because it requires extra work or puzzle or so on, who's to blame.

Again, it depends whether the cache page noted the need for additional tools or homework. If the page warned me, then I'm to blame.

If you go to a cache and it note your style so you don't like it, who's to blame?

Everyone likes different things. No one to blame.

If you go to a cache without reading the cache page and don't like the cache, who's to blame?

Absolutely me.

Also

 

How much does the CO need to tell you about the cache?

Need? Any necessary information to avoid illegal actions (such as access info to prevent trespassing), as well as permission information. Anything else is gravy. I've actually found a few caches with purely blank descriptions and hint.

How much does the cacher need to do before going after caches?

Read the description. I always do and I write my descriptions with the expectation that everyone searching for my caches will do the same. If you don't read the description, you have no idea whether you're doing something illegal, dangerous, or just contrary to what the owner intended.

Does the CO owe the cacher anything or is it 'cacher' beware?

The CO has given their time and resources to provide something for others to search for, so finders should be grateful. It's definitely "cacher beware" whether you'll like it or not.

Edited by The A-Team
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When I first started geocaching most cache owners hid their caches in places that were special to them, or that they thought others would enjoy visiting. You weren't guaranteed to be taken to someplace unique, interesting or scenic, but it happened far more often than not.

 

Especially when away from home, I loved to load up my unit and see all of the cool places geocaching would take me.

 

That changed sometime in the mid 2000s and in many areas I started encountering more and more caches in mundane and sometimes outright disgusting areas. For this, the owners need to take some of the blame for their lack of imagination.

 

I've learned that the days when I can blindly head out the door are over. I miss those days because the sense of discovery was one of the things I enjoyed the most about geocaching. Once I started "discovering" far too many gas stations, dumpsters behind strip malls, litter strewn lots and Home Depot parking lots I learned I needed to make more of an effort to concentrate on the caches I enjoy. It's not an easy thing to do so I often wind up driving away when my GPS points someplace that I have no interest in visiting. A waste of my gas and time, but that is the way it is.

 

Ultimately it's the cache seeker who has to take charge of his experience, but it's also a shame that cache hunting has become a research project if you want more out of it than just numbers.

Edited by briansnat
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I take full responsibility for my caching experiences. My habits are my own fault, so I am to blame for any good or bad times that I have.

 

I am a cacher of convenience. Rarely will I read a cache description before showing up near GZ. I am more likely to get to an area, find myself with some spare time, pull out my cell phone and get a short list of the nearest caches. I'll randomly pick one from the list and point my compass at it. I don't like to see the map, leaving getting there with nothing but distance / heading information as a big part of the adventure.

 

If I don't like something about the cache, it's my own fault for the way I like to play the game.

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This is just my personal opinion, and it's not directed at any one person or group... either out on the geo trails or here in the forum.

 

I don't think blame needs to be assigned to anyone. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Some people love parking lots, some don't. Some love a 10 mile hike, some don't. Some love puzzles, others despise them. Some love nanos, others demand ammo cans. And some are even willing to tie themselves to a rope and throw themselves off the side of a cliff for a smiley. Not me.

 

When I cache, I try to pre-search caches I might like before heading out, but if it turns out to be less than I expected, it's no big deal. My expectations may or may not change with or without notice. I either try to find the thing and sign the log, or I move on down the road.

 

For me, speaking only for myself, life is to short to get all angsty about lame caches or cache pages.

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Does the CO owe the cacher anything or is it 'cacher' beware?

 

The CO only "owes" me some assurance that the cache is at the stated coordinates, and that the stated coordinates don't take me into any unusual and not obvious hazards that aren't stated on the cache page. (For example, you shouldn't risk prosecution for trespassing because the CO placed the cache on private property without permission, or because there is only one, very unobvious legal route to the cache.) I'm not saying their can't be any hazards - just that the surprise "wow" factor of the cache shouldn't be "surprise! you're in trouble!"

 

As long as stuff is reasonably well disclosed, the rest is up to me. If I get there and don't like it - move on.

 

It is "nice" when the CO hides something in an interesting or fun place, or is otherwise creative with their cache, at least a little.

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I don't think blame needs to be assigned to anyone. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Some people love parking lots, some don't. Some love a 10 mile hike, some don't. Some love puzzles, others despise them. Some love nanos, others demand ammo cans. And some are even willing to tie themselves to a rope and throw themselves off the side of a cliff for a smiley. Not me.

 

I couldn't agree with this more, although, I would go off a side of a cliff with rope to find a cache, and I will find nano's in parking lots, or ammo cans on 10 mile hikes. I like to see the smiley on the map. =P

 

I really prefer the fun hikes or 4wd drives or any out-doorsie, but I have this uncontrollable urge to find every cache around me, first was 5 mile radius, then 10 mile radius, now Im in a 20 mile radius...although there is some I still haven't found in my shorter radius's lol

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> If you go out and try to find a cache and you don't like the cache because of where it brought you, who's to blame?

 

Either no one or me. I can see on the map where it is at and with all the views such as satellite, street view, etc there is no excuse for driving any real distance without knowing. When I get there I don't like the location I can drive on by.

 

> If you go to a cache and find that you can't complete the cache because it requires extra work or puzzle or so on, who's to blame.

 

Two separate questions here;

1 Work - If I have to crawl under something, climb something, wade, etc and the D/T was set properly according to the area, I am to "blame" or again no one.

 

2. Puzzle - If it is listed as a mystery/puzzle; Me or no one. If it is not; The CO.

 

> If you go to a cache and it note your style so you don't like it, who's to blame?

 

No one.

 

> If you go to a cache without reading the cache page and don't like the cache, who's to blame?

 

No one really however if anyone, me for not reading the description.

 

> How much does the CO need to tell you about the cache?

 

Coords, D/T, type, Size and hours if needed.

 

> How much does the cacher need to do before going after caches?

 

Have coords, d/t, type, Size, pencil or pen and hours if needed.

 

> Does the CO owe the cacher anything or is it 'cacher' beware?

 

Coords, D/T, type, Size and hours if needed. Beyond that, nothing.

 

havng said all this, really there is no "blame" and for most, simple personal responsibility that falls on the seeker. As always; not every cache needs to be found.

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The cache owner needs to provide me with relatively accurate coordinates that leads me to a container and logbook that is in reasonably good shape(EC's, virtuals and the like excluded from the container portion of course). The rest is up to me.

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!

If I am not having fun it is up to me to correct the situation or my attitude.

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The cache owner needs to provide me with relatively accurate coordinates that leads me to a container and logbook that is in reasonably good shape(EC's, virtuals and the like excluded from the container portion of course). The rest is up to me.

That pretty much says it all.

+1

 

I agree and will add that the CO owes finders the truth. Don't deliberately plant a micro and list it as a small so that I won't filter it out. Don't deliberately under-rate the terrain rating as a 2 because you're worried that fewer people will attempt it if you accurately list it as a 4.

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When I first started geocaching most cache owners hid their caches in places that were special to them, or that they thought others would enjoy visiting. You weren't guaranteed to be taken to someplace unique, interesting or scenic, but it happened far more often than not.

 

Especially when away from home, I loved to load up my unit and see all of the cool places geocaching would take me.

 

That changed sometime in the mid 2000s and in many areas I started encountering more and more caches in mundane and sometimes outright disgusting areas. For this, the owners need to take some of the blame for their lack of imagination.

 

I've learned that the days when I can blindly head out the door are over. I miss those days because the sense of discovery was one of the things I enjoyed the most about geocaching. Once I started "discovering" far too many gas station, dumpsters behind strip malls, litter strewn lots and Home Depot parking lots I learned I needed to make more of an effort to concentrate on the caches I enjoy. It's not an easy thing to do so I often wind up driving away when my GPS points someplace that I have no interest in visiting. A waste of my gas and time, but that is the way it is.

 

Ultimately it's the cache seeker who has to take charge of his experience, but it's also a shame that cache hunting has become a research project if you want more out of it than just numbers.

 

Joined in 2003 and still can't top it.

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When I first started geocaching most cache owners hid their caches in places that were special to them, or that they thought others would enjoy visiting. You weren't guaranteed to be taken to someplace unique, interesting or scenic, but it happened far more often than not.

 

Especially when away from home, I loved to load up my unit and see all of the cool places geocaching would take me.

Sigh! I miss the good ole days of caching. I started caching in 2004. If I first found out about caching today, I might try a few and then abandon the game. The only 2 things keep me going: 1)knowing that there are a handful of "gem" caches still being placed, and 2)myself striving to be one of those "gem" placers.

 

medoug.

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Why do you feel the need for someone to "blame"?

 

Noone is making you go looking for caches. Even if the information is wrong, just stop looking, log a note or a NM, and move on. No need for any blame.

 

Sheesh, you Americans... you'll be asking who you can sue next :P

 

(dons asbestos jacket, holds out marshmallow on stick and waits...)

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Great post!

 

While these might seem like easy questions, for me at least, I have to remind myself that I live in the Land of the Entitled, where many of my fellow citizens reside either in the "Blame Everybody Else Except The Responsible Person" camp, or the "Don't Hold Anyone Accountable For Anything, Ever, Because That's Mean" camp. The Clan Riffster of days gone by would have railed for hours against such silly sentiments, but the more seasoned me has realized that it just isn't worth it.

 

With that in mind, I can approach these questions and offer my opinions on them.

 

If you go out and try to find a cache and you don't like the cache because of where it brought you, who's to blame?

Me. Groundspeak and Garmin provide me with the tools I need to determine if a ground zero is likely to be some place where I want to play. If I choose to not utilize those tools, and end up behind a Wally World, digging around a transient camp, it's on me.

If you go to a cache and find that you can't complete the cache because it requires extra work or puzzle or so on, who's to blame.

For me, this answer is not clear. There are too many variables. If a cache is going to require some complex manipulation to earn a smiley, (combo lock, significant climb, follow reflectors, etc), I like to at least have some clue what I'm getting myself in for. I love reading cache pages and researching caches I plan to hunt, so very few catch me unawares. If I go to what I believe is a traditional, and find that the CO neglected to tell me it was not, I'm gonna be grumbling about them.

If you go to a cache and it note your style so you don't like it, who's to blame?

Me. I am usually very picky about what I hunt, and my caching aesthetics start with the location. As I mentioned in the first question, location is not something that is going to surprise me. My next assessment is the container. I expect a container that will protect its contents from Momma Nature. The opening post made the assumption that the cache was in good shape, so for the purpose of this question, I will operate under the assumption that the container is adequate for the location. Obviously this is not always the case. Even a Gladware or a black & grey film can can usually work for a little while. My favorite haunts are swamps. If I find a crappy container in a swamp, even if it's OK inside, I know from experience that this is just a temporary condition, and those who come behind me are probably going to experience the wonders of wet, moldy logs. Using a container that will not protect its contents is something I am rather intolerant about, so I have no problem blaming the CO for that one.

If you go to a cache without reading the cache page and don't like the cache, who's to blame?

Me. Not even subject to debate.

How much does the CO need to tell you about the cache?

As much as they wish. From there, the decision to hunt or not is mine. I've learned that, locally at least, if I see less words on the cache page than are tattooed on Rosie O'Donnell's backside, the lack of creativity usually doesn't stop at the written word. The exception for me are caches like multis and Wherigos. I like for a CO to tell me how many stages I'm going to visit and how far I'll be going.

How much does the cacher need to do before going after caches?

I like to be prepared, so I tend to do a lot of studying before a hunt. But that's certainly not required. If someone wants to head out the door with naught but coordinates, that's kewl, so long as they don't whine about what they find at ground zero.

Does the CO owe the cacher anything or is it 'cacher' beware?

As a cache owner, I feel an obligation to let seekers know what to expect, though I guess I should qualify that by saying the obligation is strictly self imposed. I would be hard pressed to say a cache owner "owes" me anything other than accurate coords, and a properly maintained cache which is guideline compliant.

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Why do you feel the need for someone to "blame"?

 

Noone is making you go looking for caches. Even if the information is wrong, just stop looking, log a note or a NM, and move on. No need for any blame.

 

Sheesh, you Americans... you'll be asking who you can sue next :P

 

(dons asbestos jacket, holds out marshmallow on stick and waits...)

No flames from me.

 

I would tend to agree.

Like some of the others have said. I feel that, as long as the CO is not being decietful, I'm the one in charge my caching. If I don't like it, that's my problem not theirs.

 

On the other side of it, I feel I owe the cacher the best cache I can give them. That means everything from the site, to the container, to the cache page. If they don't like it, that's not my problem. They can just go on past it.

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When I first started geocaching most cache owners hid their caches in places that were special to them, or that they thought others would enjoy visiting. You weren't guaranteed to be taken to someplace unique, interesting or scenic, but it happened far more often than not.

 

Especially when away from home, I loved to load up my unit and see all of the cool places geocaching would take me.

 

That changed sometime in the mid 2000s and in many areas I started encountering more and more caches in mundane and sometimes outright disgusting areas. For this, the owners need to take some of the blame for their lack of imagination.

 

I've learned that the days when I can blindly head out the door are over. I miss those days because the sense of discovery was one of the things I enjoyed the most about geocaching. Once I started "discovering" far too many gas station, dumpsters behind strip malls, litter strewn lots and Home Depot parking lots I learned I needed to make more of an effort to concentrate on the caches I enjoy. It's not an easy thing to do so I often wind up driving away when my GPS points someplace that I have no interest in visiting. A waste of my gas and time, but that is the way it is.

 

Ultimately it's the cache seeker who has to take charge of his experience, but it's also a shame that cache hunting has become a research project if you want more out of it than just numbers.

 

I don't see anything I could add to this.

Thanks Brian, you hit the nail right on the head.

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Great post!

 

While these might seem like easy questions, for me at least, I have to remind myself that I live in the Land of the Entitled, where many of my fellow citizens reside either in the "Blame Everybody Else Except The Responsible Person" camp, or the "Don't Hold Anyone Accountable For Anything, Ever, Because That's Mean" camp. The Clan Riffster of days gone by would have railed for hours against such silly sentiments, but the more seasoned me has realized that it just isn't worth it.

 

With that in mind, I can approach these questions and offer my opinions on them.

 

***snipped for brevity***

+1 and then some.

 

I might have to have that tattooed on my backside. :laughing:

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The cache owner needs to provide me with relatively accurate coordinates that leads me to a container and logbook that is in reasonably good shape(EC's, virtuals and the like excluded from the container portion of course). The rest is up to me.

+1, especially to the "up to me" part. All I can hope for is a dry log and good coords.

Hey...where's fizzymagic?

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When I first started geocaching most cache owners hid their caches in places that were special to them, or that they thought others would enjoy visiting. You weren't guaranteed to be taken to someplace unique, interesting or scenic, but it happened far more often than not.

 

Especially when away from home, I loved to load up my unit and see all of the cool places geocaching would take me.

 

That changed sometime in the mid 2000s and in many areas I started encountering more and more caches in mundane and sometimes outright disgusting areas. For this, the owners need to take some of the blame for their lack of imagination.

 

I've learned that the days when I can blindly head out the door are over. I miss those days because the sense of discovery was one of the things I enjoyed the most about geocaching. Once I started "discovering" far too many gas station, dumpsters behind strip malls, litter strewn lots and Home Depot parking lots I learned I needed to make more of an effort to concentrate on the caches I enjoy. It's not an easy thing to do so I often wind up driving away when my GPS points someplace that I have no interest in visiting. A waste of my gas and time, but that is the way it is.

 

Ultimately it's the cache seeker who has to take charge of his experience, but it's also a shame that cache hunting has become a research project if you want more out of it than just numbers.

 

I don't see anything I could add to this.

Thanks Brian, you hit the nail right on the head.

I was going to reply to Brian but now I'll reply to you both

 

You guys are welcome to come down here and cache with me anytime. There are still plenty of those down here. I fact I'm putting one out here soon that is a 5+ mile hike arcoss the peaks of the Wichita Mountains. Plus I still have 36 more 4+ terrain caches left to find within an hour or so drive of me. Until I moved back here I almost forgot how great caching can be. It has relit my fire for the caching. Even most of micros here take you someplace nice. :D

Out of the 60 cache I've found in the past 2 months only 2 have made me go, 'Why.' They were both Wally World LPCs. I was going in to get caching supplies so I grab 'em just to clear of the map. :ph34r:

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The cache owner needs to provide me with relatively accurate coordinates that leads me to a container and logbook that is in reasonably good shape(EC's, virtuals and the like excluded from the container portion of course). The rest is up to me.

That pretty much says it all.

+1

Nailed it. :laughing:

 

Well said! We are just enjoying having a reason to get out and have fun with each other. Anything we find or don't find is just icing on the cake. The one thing that is disappointing to me is the whole trackable situation. We are all the holders of blame on this one. It has been frustrating to try and find caches with travelers in them, find the cache, but no traveller to be found. I was trying to find several caches last week with trackables in order to take them with me when I travel from Texas to NYC this week. I went to 5 different caches where travel bugs were listed but not actually in the cache. I went to one cache where a traveller wasn't listed, but there was one in there. I wish that this part of the game would work well because we think it is super fun to think of helping things to travel the world. My what stories they could tell...

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When I first started geocaching most cache owners hid their caches in places that were special to them, or that they thought others would enjoy visiting. You weren't guaranteed to be taken to someplace unique, interesting or scenic, but it happened far more often than not.

 

Especially when away from home, I loved to load up my unit and see all of the cool places geocaching would take me.

 

That changed sometime in the mid 2000s and in many areas I started encountering more and more caches in mundane and sometimes outright disgusting areas. For this, the owners need to take some of the blame for their lack of imagination.

 

I've learned that the days when I can blindly head out the door are over. I miss those days because the sense of discovery was one of the things I enjoyed the most about geocaching. Once I started "discovering" far too many gas station, dumpsters behind strip malls, litter strewn lots and Home Depot parking lots I learned I needed to make more of an effort to concentrate on the caches I enjoy. It's not an easy thing to do so I often wind up driving away when my GPS points someplace that I have no interest in visiting. A waste of my gas and time, but that is the way it is.

 

Ultimately it's the cache seeker who has to take charge of his experience, but it's also a shame that cache hunting has become a research project if you want more out of it than just numbers.

 

I don't see anything I could add to this.

Thanks Brian, you hit the nail right on the head.

I was going to reply to Brian but now I'll reply to you both

 

You guys are welcome to come down here and cache with me anytime. There are still plenty of those down here. I fact I'm putting one out here soon that is a 5+ mile hike arcoss the peaks of the Wichita Mountains. Plus I still have 36 more 4+ terrain caches left to find within an hour or so drive of me. Until I moved back here I almost forgot how great caching can be. It has relit my fire for the caching. Even most of micros here take you someplace nice. :D

Out of the 60 cache I've found in the past 2 months only 2 have made me go, 'Why.' They were both Wally World LPCs. I was going in to get caching supplies so I grab 'em just to clear of the map. :ph34r:

 

Until recently I could brag that northern NJ was different from most areas. We have a great bunch of cache hiders who hide fantastic caches. In the past two years however some new cachers seem to think that parking lots are what geocaching is about.

 

I can think of three relatively new cachers who have been spewing their traches in the parking lots of every business along local highways (I'm fairly certain without permission).

 

Some here insist that people hide what they like to find, but interestingly enough, these same people are out there snapping up my (and other) caches that are longish hikes in the woods, yet when they go to hide their own they stick micros in strip malls and gas stations.

 

One CO writes stuff on his cache pages like "Route 23 needs another cache". Really? What is it about film canisters in strip malls that excites your sense of adventure and discovery? I know...rhetorical question, it's about numbers.

Edited by briansnat
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Just to see what side of issue people fall on this issue. Also to see how think on this matches the community, I'll ask you this.

 

All of these assume that the cache is present and in good repair.

 

If you go out and try to find a cache and you don't like the cache because of where it brought you, who's to blame?

Nobody. The CO thought it was good. Why should I have to agree?

I traipsed across a plowed field to find the cache area buried in trash. It's still a memory with no find and no fault.

 

If you go to a cache and find that you can't complete the cache because it requires extra work or puzzle or so on, who's to blame.

Me. I try to read multis and puzzles ahead of time.

 

If you go to a cache and it note your style so you don't like it, who's to blame?

I use PQ and don't read the traditionals ahead of time. I like the 'potluck' aspect. If I don't like it I just go on.

 

If you go to a cache without reading the cache page and don't like the cache, who's to blame?

Like the last question, it's an added mystery. I am new and have embraced the current state of caching. I will wade thru a hundred mundane finds and still appreciate the gem I find among them.

Also

 

How much does the CO need to tell you about the cache?

Up to the CO.

How much does the cacher need to do before going after caches?

Up to the cacher.

Does the CO owe the cacher anything or is it 'cacher' beware?

 

Success is not guaranteed!!!

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Just to see what side of issue people fall on this issue. Also to see how think on this matches the community, I'll ask you this.

 

All of these assume that the cache is present and in good repair.

 

If you go out and try to find a cache and you don't like the cache because of where it brought you, who's to blame?

If you go to a cache and find that you can't complete the cache because it requires extra work or puzzle or so on, who's to blame.

If you go to a cache and it note your style so you don't like it, who's to blame?

If you go to a cache without reading the cache page and don't like the cache, who's to blame?

 

Also

 

How much does the CO need to tell you about the cache?

How much does the cacher need to do before going after caches?

Does the CO owe the cacher anything or is it 'cacher' beware?

1. you because you didn't use graphics view on the maps.

2. you because you don't want to put effort into a puzzle[owner fault if he didn't at least give you a field puzzle attribute]

3. you. see #1

4. you. no effort

----------

1. if its a trad, all he needs to give is good coords

2. you. read the entire listing

3. depends on the owner. like one of mine bees moved in after i hid it[i added this to the page but not all do. read the logs of previous visitors of the cache]

-

if you load up a cacherich area via pq then i guess its up to you.

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Any hobby that makes me think about the word "blame" isn't a hobby I care to participate in. I just shrug it off and enjoy the good ones if I'm disappointed. If I think something is actually dangerous, I will send an email or post a NM log. That is all. It's all about having fun.

Edited by Dame Deco
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If you go out and try to find a cache and you don't like the cache because of where it brought you, who's to blame?

If you go to a cache and find that you can't complete the cache because it requires extra work or puzzle or so on, who's to blame.

If you go to a cache and it note your style so you don't like it, who's to blame?

If you go to a cache without reading the cache page and don't like the cache, who's to blame?

 

I do not understand why there needs to be anyone around to blame at all.

 

I happen to visit caches that I do not like even when I am aware of this before because the ones I like better are not reachable for me on that day and I prefer to visit a cache I do not like that much to staying at home (which I would end up in most cases as alternative). I'm neither blaming the hider for hiding a cache that is not up to my preferences nor do I blame myself as had to take into account my situation.

 

Sometimes it appears to me that some cache owners interpret simple comments in logs as complaints. When I write that my shoes got terribly dirty and that it took longer to clean them than to visit the cache, I am not blaming the hider for my dirty shoes.

 

How much does the CO need to tell you about the cache?

How much does the cacher need to do before going after caches?

Does the CO owe the cacher anything or is it 'cacher' beware?

 

Reasonable coordinates and reasonable D/T-ratings are relevant I think.

 

I do not think that the hiders need to provide any further information. I am however very thankful to them if they provide further information in particular on the terrain difficulty, the length of the walk, suggested parking locations etc as it helps me to select the caches I could try without ending up very frustrated about myself (not the cache hider) and my limited abilities.

I try to be very well prepared to the caches I am attempting, but to that end I am often dependent on information provided by the hider (preferred) or other cachers that know the cache in question.

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne
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Reasonable coordinates and reasonable D/T-ratings are relevant I think.

 

I do not think that the hiders need to provide any further information. I am however very thankful to them if they provide further information in particular on the terrain difficulty, the length of the walk, suggested parking locations etc as it helps me to select the caches I could try without ending up very frustrated about myself (not the cache hider) and my limited abilities.

I try to be very well prepared to the caches I am attempting, but to that end I am often dependent on information provided by the hider (preferred) or other cachers that know the cache in question.

 

Cezanne

 

I agree with the "accurate coords" and "dry signable log" statement. Where my comment came from about properly ratting D/T stems for a local cacher in my area who hides what many consider to be dangerous caches, deliberately underrates them, and provides very little to no details on the dangers of their cache. Most others rate their cahces accordingly and others will let you know if a cache happens to require special equipmnent or will be considered out of the ordinary (i.e. tunnel caches, climbing trees, etc.)

Sadly, it will take someone either getting hurt or even killed on this particular cacher's hides that will get this cacher's to start rating their cachers accordingly.

 

Subsequently, I dont mind this cachers hides as much as others do, the hides are rather enjoyable to me, I just wish they would provide a bit more info so I know to bring the right equipment.

Edited by nthacker66
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One CO writes stuff on his cache pages like "Route 23 needs another cache". Really? What is it about film canisters in strip malls that excites your sense of adventure and discovery?

 

BINGO! This is the type of carp we have noticed. Placement of a cache simply because there is no cache within 1/10 mile.

 

Not saying that the original concept is dead, just that some (many? most?) have never grasped the concept of "take us to someplace special".

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Well, for one of the first times ever, I agree with baloo&db. It is really all about personal responsibility. Stop blaming others, and start taking responsibility for your own successes and failures.

 

> If you go out and try to find a cache and you don't like the cache because of where it brought you, who's to blame?

 

Either no one or me. I can see on the map where it is at and with all the views such as satellite, street view, etc there is no excuse for driving any real distance without knowing. When I get there I don't like the location I can drive on by.

 

> If you go to a cache and find that you can't complete the cache because it requires extra work or puzzle or so on, who's to blame.

 

Two separate questions here;

1 Work - If I have to crawl under something, climb something, wade, etc and the D/T was set properly according to the area, I am to "blame" or again no one.

 

2. Puzzle - If it is listed as a mystery/puzzle; Me or no one. If it is not; The CO.

 

> If you go to a cache and it note your style so you don't like it, who's to blame?

 

No one.

 

> If you go to a cache without reading the cache page and don't like the cache, who's to blame?

 

No one really however if anyone, me for not reading the description.

 

> How much does the CO need to tell you about the cache?

 

Coords, D/T, type, Size and hours if needed.

 

> How much does the cacher need to do before going after caches?

 

Have coords, d/t, type, Size, pencil or pen and hours if needed.

 

> Does the CO owe the cacher anything or is it 'cacher' beware?

 

Coords, D/T, type, Size and hours if needed. Beyond that, nothing.

 

havng said all this, really there is no "blame" and for most, simple personal responsibility that falls on the seeker. As always; not every cache needs to be found.

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"take us to someplace special".

 

Give me a break!!

1,600,000 or so caches hidden. If we only had them in someplace special, there would be a whole lot less.

I don't see a place that I would like to put a hide very often. I have one hide like I have one challenge, just to try it out.

One day I would maybe try placing a special hide in any old place.

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"take us to someplace special".

 

Give me a break!!

1,600,000 or so caches hidden. If we only had them in someplace special, there would be a whole lot less.

I don't see a place that I would like to put a hide very often. I have one hide like I have one challenge, just to try it out.

One day I would maybe try placing a special hide in any old place.

 

I don't necessarily see 1.6 million caches hidden as a good thing. I'd rather have 600,000 caches that bring me to places that I would enjoy visiting if the cache wasn't there than a million caches located in feces strewn lots, next to strip mall dumpsters, in big box store parking lots or along highway guardrails.

 

Imagine 600,000 interesting geocaches with few clunkers. I think that would be enough to keep most of us busy for the rest of our lives.

 

Heaven forbid, people might not be able to rack up 600 finds in a day but does that clicker on their profile really mean that much to them?

Edited by briansnat
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I don't necessarily see 1.6 million caches hidden as a good thing. I'd rather have 600,000 caches that bring me to places that I would enjoy visiting if the cache wasn't there than a million caches located in feces strewn lots, next to strip mall dumpsters, in big box store parking lots or along highway guardrails.

 

Imagine 600,000 interesting geocaches with few clunkers. I think that would be enough to keep most of us busy for the rest of our lives.

That...

If my insurance company is right, I can expect to be around another 30 years, tops. Since I would much rather spend all day hunting one really nice cache, then spend a day hunting several hundred ho-hum caches, I figure at the most, I only need about 11,000 caches. Cut that number by 75%, as I only cache about 1 day out of four, and there need be only roughly 3,000 caches on the planet. :ph34r:

 

The remaining 1,597,000 caches are just noise... :lol::P

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If you go out and try to find a cache and you don't like the cache because of where it brought you, who's to blame?

 

I don't know if anyone's really to blame. Maybe they liked a location and it's just not suited for you. However, if the location is too difficult for you... then it's your fault. I mean, if the cache is located at the top of a giant sand dune that's almost vertical then yeah, it's not a piece of cake. If you get to the hill, look at it, then start climbing and then *continue* to climb, you don't really have a right to complain :/ After going up part way you can easily decide if you really want to struggle upwards for a container of random stuff. No one promised it would spectacular.

 

I think as long as you can access the Google map of the cache and look at the satellite image and still pursue it, you only have yourself to blame :(

 

If you go to a cache and find that you can't complete the cache because it requires extra work or puzzle or so on, who's to blame.

 

If no one mentioned it was a puzzle cache or required extra effort or whatever, then I guess that could be the CO's fault but why place blame? Does it matter at the end of the day? I really hope I don't get bent out of shape at a surprise puzzle cache :unsure: If you decide to complete the puzzle I don't think you can really whine too much. No one put a gun to your head and forced you to complete the puzzle.

 

If you go to a cache and it note your style so you don't like it, who's to blame?

 

Hey, it happens. I don't think there's a good way to make sure something meets your expectations and what you like, but why get bent? If everything else about the cache is okay (log book and so forth), then does it matter? It may not be your cup of tea, but it just might be someone else's. Again, I hope I don't reach the point where I get super bent about a cache because it wasn't up to my specific standards :unsure:

 

If you go to a cache without reading the cache page and don't like the cache, who's to blame?

 

If whatever you didn't like was mentioned on the cache page, then it's your fault. Kind of "look before you leap".

 

How much does the CO need to tell you about the cache?

 

I think it should be enough to give a good idea of what's going on. You have the difficulty rating... if it's a certain difficulty (I don't know, maybe a 2.5 or a 3 or higher) perhaps state why? "Oh, there's this hill you have to climb" or "needs rapelling equipment to access". There are a few cemetery caches around here and in neighboring counties. I like knowing if I have to go in or if the cache is accessible from the outside. I also really like knowing what I'm looking for, even if "micro" ends up meaning a 10-20 dram pill bottle. At least I know it's small. I also like to know about certains dangers. Exposed cliff faces? Poison ivy? Killer bees?! :o I mean, if I wander over and there's something I don't like that I wasn't informed of, I'll just go. Whatever. If I can deal with it, great. Little adventure.

 

How much does the cacher need to do before going after caches?

 

I guess that depends on the individual. If you have certain standards that have be met, then you should do some research until your requirements of "yes" or "no" are met. If you're willing to wing it, then fine.

 

Right now, I'm just going through the D/T rating, the container type (regular, micro, etc), the cache description, probably the gallery if one is available, some logs, and then a Google map satellite image so I have a general idea of where it is. Some people may want more, some people may want less. To each their own :)

 

Does the CO owe the cacher anything or is it 'cacher' beware?

 

I think there are a few things that cachers must beware. Things happen. Not everything is perfect. Not everything is clever. I think there are certain things a CO does owe a cacher, such as the most accurate coords possible. There are a lot of things that can be out of a CO's hands.

 

I think a few of these scenarios don't really require "blame". Why blame someone? Just take it as it is and move on :) A few of these scenarios require you to blame yourself. If you hate it, why keep doing it? Masochistic much? :laughing:

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"take us to someplace special".

 

Give me a break!!

1,600,000 or so caches hidden. If we only had them in someplace special, there would be a whole lot less.

I don't see a place that I would like to put a hide very often. I have one hide like I have one challenge, just to try it out.

One day I would maybe try placing a special hide in any old place.

 

I don't necessarily see 1.6 million caches hidden as a good thing. I'd rather have 600,000 caches that bring me to places that I would enjoy visiting if the cache wasn't there than a million caches located in feces strewn lots, next to strip mall dumpsters, in big box store parking lots or along highway guardrails.

 

Imagine 600,000 interesting geocaches with few clunkers. I think that would be enough to keep most of us busy for the rest of our lives.

 

Heaven forbid, people might not be able to rack up 600 finds in a day but does that clicker on their profile really mean that much to them?

I'm with you and not.

We got what we got today. I choose to sort 'em out in the field instead of from the computer like most do. Isn't part of the idea to get out?

I feel free to pass some by.

 

I do about 3 per hour of search, so we have way more than I'll ever need!!

I'm really happy when I get to log a good one. But I appreciate all the COs and try to give more than TFTC. Sometimes I stumble into the area of an especially good hider and bunches of fun hides(just as good as the special places). Sometimes the adventure I make by going in the wrong way is what makes the find or DNF good. Unprepared (but not careless) sometimes adds to the potential for an adventure.

 

The 'pure' game is gone. We are free to play it the way we like.

 

Sorry for rambling on. It's still kind of on-topic isn't it?

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I appreciate all the COs and try to give more than TFTC.

At the risk of going off topic, allow me to say "Thank You". As a cache owner, with my particular caching bias, my poor aging gray matter automatically translates "TFTC", or other such acronyms, into, "Your cache totally sucked". I almost feel like archiving a hide when I see such pathetic logs. (I actually did archive one for just that reason, in a fit of peevishness) Knowing that there are folks like you out there who still recognize the value of expressing ones self through the written word means a lot. B)

Edited by Clan Riffster
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I appreciate all the COs and try to give more than TFTC.

At the risk of going off topic, allow me to say "Thank You". As a cache owner, with my particular caching bias, my poor aging gray matter automatically translates "TFTC", or other such acronyms, into, "Your cache totally sucked". I almost feel like archiving a hide when I see such pathetic logs. (I actually did archive one for just that reason, in a fit of peevishness) Knowing that there are folks like you out there who still recognize the value of expressing ones self through the written word means a lot. B)

TFTP I agree.

 

 

:anitongue:

 

;)

 

:D

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I actually like the ones near trash, if it is easy to get to. I think I have about 80 lbs of metal in my trunk right now and all that just from park and grabs I've been nabbing during the winter months.

 

And yes, TFTC is kind of like saying, "You didn't put in any effort to hide it so why should I put any effort into signing it?"

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And yes, TFTC is kind of like saying, "You didn't put in any effort to hide it so why should I put any effort into signing it?"

 

+1

I have thought and used the same rationale when finding a film can along the side of the highway. I guess I could say something like:

 

"Parked the car on a perfectly average day, stepped out, and found the cache after a lengthy search that occupied almost 45 seconds! Imagine my surprise when I figured what the container was in its past life.

Thank you so much for placing this cache in a location that no one would ever expect to visit for any reason other than to drive by on their way to somewhere else."

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And yes, TFTC is kind of like saying, "You didn't put in any effort to hide it so why should I put any effort into signing it?"

 

+1

I have thought and used the same rationale when finding a film can along the side of the highway. I guess I could say something like:

 

"Parked the car on a perfectly average day, stepped out, and found the cache after a lengthy search that occupied almost 45 seconds! Imagine my surprise when I figured what the container was in its past life.

Thank you so much for placing this cache in a location that no one would ever expect to visit for any reason other than to drive by on their way to somewhere else."

:laughing:

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