Premium Member Only Caches

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

I understand the need for PMO caches and thank you for those hints in my friends logging these caches. What I am objecting to are whole series where there is nothing special about the caches, not really at much risk, quiet paths. I like the PMO for a little while then opened up to all idea, that would be a nice sentiment.

PMO reduces the traffic in an area, and is the probable reason for PMO earthcaches.

No, seems that "Because we can!" was the number 1 answer. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=286808

I'll keep my caches open to all members and pay for the service I get from being a PM.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

On another note, can you not just email your friends your gpx files? :unsure:

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

there seems to be a rise in the number of people putting out caches which are premium member only, now I am a premium member but some of my caching friends aren't. Now I understand if it's a special well cammoflaged one off cache in a high traffic area, but when it's a series of 15 - 20 35mm film canister micros I honestly don't see the need to have these as premium member only. It means I cannot go and find these caches with my friends and I feel this sort of behavoiur by certain geocachers discriminating against those who cannot afford to be a premium member, shouldn't the sport of geocaching be "for all"

Uummm...no, it shouldn't be "free and for all". Geocaching is a fun hobby that people who choose to may participate in(and for free to a certain degree)...it's not a privilage that everyone "deserves". Jeez...sorry, just hits a nerve with me when someone whines because they can't get everything they want for free. Don't tell me there are members here who participate in a hobby that requires electronic hardware and transportation to take part it and can't afford $30 bucks a year if they so choose, bacause I believe that is BS. Pay it and get the perks, or don't and move on with your life.

Edited January 20, 2012 by timothy585

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

On another note, can you not just email your friends your gpx files?

And back door logging...........? :rolleyes:

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

Someone wondered why an Earthcache was PMO. Maybe to reduce the foot traffic in an ecologically senstive area?

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

Someone wondered why an Earthcache was PMO. Maybe to reduce the foot traffic in an ecologically senstive area?

What about ones that aren't? Like this one listed in a National Park that has a nice viewing deck where you can explore the site? http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC1rnr7&Submit6=Go

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

On another note, can you not just email your friends your gpx files?

not really, that's against the TOU

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

Someone wondered why an Earthcache was PMO. Maybe to reduce the foot traffic in an ecologically sensitive area?

Just for the record, I can understand why in certain circumstances a PM cache can be beneficial, such as purposefully and legitimately limiting access but otherwise I don't see the point. There is rarely a difference between the two.

If you need to list as such, fine.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

Someone wondered why an Earthcache was PMO. Maybe to reduce the foot traffic in an ecologically senstive area?

I do not care for PMO caches and I can't imagine a PMO Earthcache to reduce traffic. Bad, bad, bad idea in my opinion. The whole idea of Earthcaches is to promote visitors to the area.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

Someone wondered why an Earthcache was PMO. Maybe to reduce the foot traffic in an ecologically senstive area?

I do not care for PMO caches and I can't imagine a PMO Earthcache to reduce traffic. Bad, bad, bad idea in my opinion. The whole idea of Earthcaches is to promote visitors to the area.

This is a topic that comes up often in the EarthCach forums, and was just locked last month. PMO EarthCaches are here to stay because Groundspeak allowes them. :anitongue:

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

Someone wondered why an Earthcache was PMO. Maybe to reduce the foot traffic in an ecologically senstive area?

Actually it is to keep the riff-raff from stealing the erratic.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

Someone wondered why an Earthcache was PMO. Maybe to reduce the foot traffic in an ecologically senstive area?

Actually it is to keep the riff-raff from stealing the erratic.

Are those still accepted? Lots of things like natural springs and waterfall got weeded out unless there is a strong geology lesson. Seems you guys should visit the EC forums sometime? :laughing:

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

Someone wondered why an Earthcache was PMO. Maybe to reduce the foot traffic in an ecologically senstive area?

Actually it is to keep the riff-raff from stealing the erratic.

Are those still accepted? Lots of things like natural springs and waterfall got weeded out unless there is a strong geology lesson. Seems you guys should visit the EC forums sometime?

I do occasionally for my drama fill and a few laughs.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

Someone wondered why an Earthcache was PMO. Maybe to reduce the foot traffic in an ecologically senstive area?

That was me wondering about that. The last PMO Earthcache I did while standing on a paved bicycle path.

I was also wondering about the privacy policy of the PMO audit log? Could I post as notes to the PMO cache its daily audit log?

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

Someone wondered why an Earthcache was PMO. Maybe to reduce the foot traffic in an ecologically senstive area?

I do not care for PMO caches and I can't imagine a PMO Earthcache to reduce traffic. Bad, bad, bad idea in my opinion. The whole idea of Earthcaches is to promote visitors to the area.

it's not promotion, but education.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

Someone wondered why an Earthcache was PMO. Maybe to reduce the foot traffic in an ecologically senstive area?

I do not care for PMO caches and I can't imagine a PMO Earthcache to reduce traffic. Bad, bad, bad idea in my opinion. The whole idea of Earthcaches is to promote visitors to the area.

it's not promotion, but education.

Okay, so how does that apply to premium members only caches?

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

I understand the need for PMO caches and thank you for those hints in my friends logging these caches. What I am objecting to are whole series where there is nothing special about the caches, not really at much risk, quiet paths. I like the PMO for a little while then opened up to all idea, that would be a nice sentiment.

PMO reduces the traffic in an area, and is the probable reason for PMO earthcaches.

No, seems that "Because we can!" was the number 1 answer. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=286808

I'll keep my caches open to all members and pay for the service I get from being a PM.

Your assumptive sampling of the 5 million geocachers, based on the responses of a dozen people in the forums is incomplete and inaccurate. $30 does not make one a rich elitist. I spend that much in one night drinking Magic Hat beer and eating boneless Carribean Rum wings at TGIFridays. :rolleyes:

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

Someone wondered why an Earthcache was PMO. Maybe to reduce the foot traffic in an ecologically senstive area?

I do not care for PMO caches and I can't imagine a PMO Earthcache to reduce traffic. Bad, bad, bad idea in my opinion. The whole idea of Earthcaches is to promote visitors to the area.

it's not promotion, but education.

Okay, so how does that apply to premium members only caches?

Education about economics and entitlement beliefs is included.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

Disclaimer: I am NOT responsible in the event that the above post is taken too seriously.

Yer darn lucky you posted that earlier. :anibad:

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

On another note, can you not just email your friends your gpx files?

not really, that's against the TOU

Not sure if that is true. Any Mods around here?

Edited January 20, 2012 by jellis

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

On another note, can you not just email your friends your gpx files?

not really, that's against the TOU

Not sure if that is true. Any Mods around here?

It's not a TOU violation. It's a violation of the Waypoint License Agreement:

Permitted Uses:

• Licensee may install the Data or portions of the Data onto a global positioning system unit ["GPS"] for Licensee's own internal use.

• Licensee may make only one (1) copy of the original Data for archival purposes unless the right to make additional copies is granted to Licensee in writing by Groundspeak.

• Licensee may modify the Data and merge other data sets with the Data for Licensee's own internal use. The portions of the Data merged with other data sets will continue to be subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement.

• Licensee may use, copy, alter, modify, merge, reproduce, and/or create derivative works of the on-line textual content [including the about geocaching content, links content and cache hiding tutorial] for Licensee's own internal use. The portions of the on-line documentation merged with other software, data, hard copy, and/or digital materials shall continue to be subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement and shall provide the following copyright attribution notice acknowledging Groundspeak's proprietary rights in the on-line documentation: "Portions of this document include intellectual property of Groundspeak and are used herein by permission. Copyright © 2006 Groundspeak, Inc. All Rights Reserved."

Uses Not Permitted:

• Licensee shall not sell, rent, lease, sublicense, lend, assign, time-share, or transfer, in whole or in part, or provide access to the Data, Related Materials, any updates, or Licensee's rights under this Agreement to any third party whatsoever.

• Licensee shall not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Groundspeak-compatible data format(s) in an attempt to duplicate the proprietary and copyright-protected Groundspeak data model(s) and/or export format(s).

• Licensee shall not remarket, resell, and/or redistribute the Data or any derived portion(s) of the Data in its digital form to any third party whatsoever.

• Licensee shall not remove or obscure any Groundspeak and/or licensor(s) copyright, proprietary, or trademark notices.

Redistribution Rights for Derived Digital Data Sets: At Groundspeak's sole option, Groundspeak may grant a separate sublicense agreement, on a royalty fee basis, with Licensees who wish to obtain redistribution rights for derived or other value-added digital data sets in Groundspeak-compatible data format(s). Please address your written proposals to Attn.: Groundspeak Data Manager, Groundspeak, Inc., 501 N. 34th Street, Suite 300 Seattle, WA 98103, USA.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

On another note, can you not just email your friends your gpx files?

not really, that's against the TOU

Not sure if that is true. Any Mods around here?

It is true, from the Waypoint license agreement,

• Licensee shall not sell, rent, lease, sublicense, lend, assign, time-share, or transfer, in whole or in part, or provide access to the Data, Related Materials, any updates, or Licensee's rights under this Agreement to any third party whatsoever.

You can make a bookmark and share the url of the bookmark and then the recipient can make their own gpx file from a PQ.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

I understand the need for PMO caches and thank you for those hints in my friends logging these caches. What I am objecting to are whole series where there is nothing special about the caches, not really at much risk, quiet paths. I like the PMO for a little while then opened up to all idea, that would be a nice sentiment.

PMO reduces the traffic in an area, and is the probable reason for PMO earthcaches.

No, seems that "Because we can!" was the number 1 answer. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=286808

I'll keep my caches open to all members and pay for the service I get from being a PM.

Your assumptive sampling of the 5 million geocachers, based on the responses of a dozen people in the forums is incomplete and inaccurate. $30 does not make one a rich elitist. I spend that much in one night drinking Magic Hat beer and eating boneless Carribean Rum wings at TGIFridays.

Good for you, maybe some morning you can pull a hot flying rabbit out of your butt. :lol: My only statement is that I choose to keep my listings open to basic members, because I can.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

Someone wondered why an Earthcache was PMO. Maybe to reduce the foot traffic in an ecologically senstive area?

I do not care for PMO caches and I can't imagine a PMO Earthcache to reduce traffic. Bad, bad, bad idea in my opinion. The whole idea of Earthcaches is to promote visitors to the area.

Here is one and the only one in Oregon.... http://coord.info/GC123H6 No tear and wear to do this cache. :laughing:

There is one guideline thats broken, the picture requirement. <_<

Edited January 20, 2012 by SwineFlew

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

I feel this sort of behavoiur by certain geocachers discriminating against those who cannot afford to be a premium member, shouldn't the sport of geocaching be "for all"

The sport of geocaching is for all. PMO caches are for those who pay a little more to get a little more. It's exceedingly rare that the free version of something is better than the version you pay money for. Off the top of my head, only Linux comes to mind.

Let's say you are a member of a Sam's Club. One of the perks of your membership is that on June 21st of every year, Sam's Club throws a huge steak fry for all their paid members. On that same day, they also hold a "free membership day" so that anyone who isn't a Sam's Club member can come in and shop but not attend the party unless they pay for a membership. Now, in this example, would you feel as though you should get a steak without paying for a membership? Isn't that the same as saying that those who don't become premium members should still get access to premium members perks?

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

shouldn't the sport of geocaching be "for all"

You know there are at least 3 or 4 other geocache listing sites, at least a couple of which are 100% free, right?

geocaching.com is a business. Don't forget this. They can run their business any way they like; if you don't like it, you're free to use another.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

Geocaching IS for all, that's why anyone can join and play for free. Not all of geocaching is free, but that doesn't mean everyone can't play, and to be fair non premium members get a lot for free.

I do agree however that you'd think premium members would place premium member only caches for a reason, eg: reduce traffic / make them a little special etc.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

I owned one PMO cache. It was not listed as a PMO because I wanted to be an elitist snob. Nor, was it listed as a PMO as a perk for those who paid $30. (Though I don't really have an issue with either of those reasons) I listed it as a PMO because it was an overly complex puzzle that required a reset every few finds, and I wanted to reduce traffic to it. I eventually figured out a way to correct that maintenance nightmare and removed the PMO status.

If you want to list your caches as PMO, go for it. I really don't understand why doing so should generate any angst, with the possible exception of those members of our society who believe everything should be free for everyone. Since those folks tend to whine about everything, I take their PMO grumbling with a grain of salt and a rolling of eyes.

I will say the recent whining about PMO Earthcaches surprised me...

I can't think of any reason ECs should be exempt.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

On another note, can you not just email your friends your gpx files?

not really, that's against the TOU

Not sure if that is true. Any Mods around here?

your question has been answered by others i just wanted to point out where it is located

every time you run a PQ you agree to the terms of the license agreement

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

there seems to be a rise in the number of people putting out caches which are premium member only, now I am a premium member but some of my caching friends aren't. Now I understand if it's a special well cammoflaged one off cache in a high traffic area, but when it's a series of 15 - 20 35mm film canister micros I honestly don't see the need to have these as premium member only. It means I cannot go and find these caches with my friends and I feel this sort of behavoiur by certain geocachers discriminating against those who cannot afford to be a premium member, shouldn't the sport of geocaching be "for all"

This may be relevant to your location.

In this locked thread (http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=278086), The Blorenges posted the following on 15 July 2011:

A couple of years ago, and again last summer, the UK midlands suffered quite a lot of deliberately trashed caches. There's no point in going into all the details here but, in response to the actions of this so called "environmental protection group", many geocachers decided to make their caches PM only.

MrsB

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

As certain of my caches become multiple-muggled I make them PMO....it helps.

One cache I made PMO only to reduce traffic.

I have no prtoblem at all with PMO caches.....if you want to seek them become a PM.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

there seems to be a rise in the number of people putting out caches which are premium member only, now I am a premium member but some of my caching friends aren't. Now I understand if it's a special well cammoflaged one off cache in a high traffic area, but when it's a series of 15 - 20 35mm film canister micros I honestly don't see the need to have these as premium member only. It means I cannot go and find these caches with my friends and I feel this sort of behavoiur by certain geocachers discriminating against those who cannot afford to be a premium member, shouldn't the sport of geocaching be "for all"

This may be relevant to your location.

In this locked thread (http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=278086), The Blorenges posted the following on 15 July 2011:

A couple of years ago, and again last summer, the UK midlands suffered quite a lot of deliberately trashed caches. There's no point in going into all the details here but, in response to the actions of this so called "environmental protection group", many geocachers decided to make their caches PM only.

MrsB

We had something similar in our area. Though the Land Management doesn't mind caches the environmentalists don't. They think we destroy the area. What I was finding was more like evidence of muggles having parties.

But on the flip side I was understanding that they did have issues of caches near animal dens. But instead of just removing the caches without contacting the COs these people should work together. Some of our cachers were not only making them PMO caches to deter they would create difficult puzzles too.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

I had a blackout challenge that I had to make PMO because I needed a pocket query to prove the requirements were met. It was only approved if I made it PMO in order to get the PQ. Folks sent me the GPX file, in fact, it was a requirement and it got approved. I have archived that challenge due to low traffic anyway, so either there are exceptions to the rule or really GS does not care if you have a legitimate reason to send the GPX file to another member. Rules are always written "more honored in the breach than the observed" anyways as Shakespeare once said.

I rarely make my caches PMO anyway, but that is me.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

As a premium member I'm against premium member caches. I've only hidden 16 caches, and all of them were open to all who wished to search for them. That was until one of them went missing twice within a few days. Its in a particularly vunerable position and my thoughts were that it was being 'hit' by passing geo-muggles using iphones to find & destroy caches. Hence I decided to make this particular cache premium only....since I did this the cache has remained intact. So maybe I was right??

My other caches are still 'open'.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

I feel this sort of behavoiur by certain geocachers discriminating against those who cannot afford to be a premium member, shouldn't the sport of geocaching be "for all"

The sport of geocaching is for all. PMO caches are for those who pay a little more to get a little more. It's exceedingly rare that the free version of something is better than the version you pay money for. Off the top of my head, only Linux comes to mind.

Let's say you are a member of a Sam's Club. One of the perks of your membership is that on June 21st of every year, Sam's Club throws a huge steak fry for all their paid members. On that same day, they also hold a "free membership day" so that anyone who isn't a Sam's Club member can come in and shop but not attend the party unless they pay for a membership. Now, in this example, would you feel as though you should get a steak without paying for a membership? Isn't that the same as saying that those who don't become premium members should still get access to premium members perks?

Then this brings up the age old question that most of the "pony up $30, and stop whining, cheapskate" posters in these threads never think about. So PMO's are one of the perks. Do they have to be? What if they never were one of them? What if they were eliminated tomorrow?

Because I'll tell you what, the next time I see someone starting a thread about why basic members can't have Pocket Queries, or why basic members can't make bookmark lists, will be the first time.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

... Now I understand if it's a special well cammoflaged one off cache in a high traffic area, but when it's a series of 15 - 20 35mm film canister micros I honestly don't see the need to have these as premium member only...

As a Premium Member with no PMO caches, the simple answer to this seems to me to be that each PMO cache owner values their cache for different reasons and ours is not to judge why. As most of us have experienced, some people in our lives can't comprehend WHY ON EARTH we would spend our time searching for tupperware in the woods. True value is personal.

I, too, find it odd that this is always a discussion about PMO caches and never a discussion about pocket queries or caches along a route - the top two reasons I pay for a premium membership.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

I, too, find it odd that this is always a discussion about PMO caches and never a discussion about pocket queries or caches along a route - the top two reasons I pay for a premium membership.

Because those items have a clear value. If you want/need PQs then you need to pay for the upgraded service. There is not an efficient 'free' way to accomplish the same task.

PMO caches don't really seem to offer that distinct of a benefit. You can find and hide caches without it. They are often not of any higher quality then the non-premium caches. So it's value to a user is not as clear cut. So that leads to debate of why even have that particular item for paying members. Plus it is always right there in the open. Non-premiums don't see the PQs I get when I run them or how caches along a route makes my trip planning easier. But they do run into that little PMO icon on cache pages quite often. Which also contributes to it being a point of contention.

I would wager if they eliminated PMO caches that the paying membership would not drop a significant amount. But if they dropped PQs I would anticipate a huge drop. I know they would stop getting my $30 a year.

I look at the PMO caches benefit sort of like the free calendar I get from my Credit Union. I didn't pick them because of it and I wouldn't leave them if they dropped it.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

I, too, find it odd that this is always a discussion about PMO caches and never a discussion about pocket queries or caches along a route - the top two reasons I pay for a premium membership.

Because those items have a clear value. If you want/need PQs then you need to pay for the upgraded service. There is not an efficient 'free' way to accomplish the same task.

PMO caches don't really seem to offer that distinct of a benefit. You can find and hide caches without it. They are often not of any higher quality then the non-premium caches. So it's value to a user is not as clear cut. So that leads to debate of why even have that particular item for paying members. Plus it is always right there in the open. Non-premiums don't see the PQs I get when I run them or how caches along a route makes my trip planning easier. But they do run into that little PMO icon on cache pages quite often. Which also contributes to it being a point of contention.

I would wager if they eliminated PMO caches that the paying membership would not drop a significant amount. But if they dropped PQs I would anticipate a huge drop. I know they would stop getting my $30 a year.

I look at the PMO caches benefit sort of like the free calendar I get from my Credit Union. I didn't pick them because of it and I wouldn't leave them if they dropped it.

Thats how I view PMO caches when it come to PQ. I joined and in two days, I was a paying member because I want that PQ that bad. Its powerful. The part that bothered me about PMO caches is how people use the Audit Logs. Take that away from CO and you will see a drop in PMO caches.

Posted January 20, 2012 · January 20, 2012

So PMO's are one of the perks. Do they have to be? What if they never were one of them? What if they were eliminated tomorrow?

Because I'll tell you what, the next time I see someone starting a thread about why basic members can't have Pocket Queries, or why basic members can't make bookmark lists, will be the first time.

Are things like PQ's, bookmarks and caches along a route even visible to non-premium members? Honestly, I don't know. When I joined the site, I just became a premium member straight away so I can't say that I recall what a general membership page looks like. There might be some promotion on there that says "Become a premium member and enjoy the use of pocket queries, bookmarks, CAAR, etc..." I don't know. I do know that PMO caches are visible on a map and on a list of nearby caches and since they are "visible", they would generate more complaints than something a general member didn't know existed.

As for the should they be a perk question...I would be ok if they went away. If someone is lured into paying for a premium membership because they believe PMO caches are somehow going to be a level up in their caching experience, then they're going to feel cheated when they realize those premium caches are the same type of caches they could find without paying. We've seen the same complaints for awhile...those non-premium members believe they are being excluded from a "premium" cache, ie a cache that is worlds better than what they've been finding. We know that's rarely true but it seems like the word premium promises something the caches are not.

Posted January 21, 2012 · January 21, 2012

Ah dadgum, I'm only gonna be the second basic member to comment! :laughing:

Here's my view as someone who's doing this for free:

I have ZERO problem with there being caches I can't access because I haven't paid money. If I want to access them, I'll pay money. So far, it seems as far caches go I might not be missing out on much. However, if I paid money to find a cache, I would have certain expectations of it.

I understand there are some awesome benefits to being a premium member. When you get right down to it, I haven't upgraded because I don't want to throw $30 at something that I'll flake out on later. I've flaked out once. I'm trying to not flake out again. Perhaps if I don't flake out then I'll consider upgrading more strongly.

I think geocaching is something that everyone should be able to do. No, I don't believe everyone should be able to access every single cache that exists. There are caches that are wheel chair friendly. There are caches that are dog friendly. There are caches that kids can access. There are caches that wheel chairs, dogs, or kids can't access. That's fine. There are a lot of caches that I don't have the stamina to access. Fine. No problem with that. If premium caches want to stay premium caches forever and ever amen, fine. I have no problem with that either (actually, that's I thought it worked, but apparently you can "downgrade" later. If you don't ever downgrade, fine).

I feel that you should have caches that you can find for free, the way it is now. If you want to get more serious about geocaching, then you can upgrade but it shouldn't be forced. You can dangle the carrot and tell me how much better it is and entice me. That's fine. But please don't make it that I *have* to shell out or just not play. I'm not whining about not being to find premium caches. I DON'T want people to send me the coordinates for them. I DON'T want people to take me to a premium only cache. If I want it, I'll pay for it

Most hobbies you have to shell out some bucks for. I get that. I've shelled out plenty of money for plenty of hobbies (not whining, just saying). But, there's a choice with how much money. Most, if not all, of us have spent money to aquire a GPS unit. I didn't buy a smart phone just for geocaching, but if it does that then that's just a bonus after the fact. I think those of us that are feeling this out and getting by with our basic accounts should be able to choose when and if we upgrade. When I decide that I just cannot live without being able to have pocket queries, I will gladly fork out some cash.

I agree that people using this for free have no right to complain about not having certain perks. That's why they're perks. I'm not entitled to them. What I get for free is the bare basics, the absolute essentials. You get what you (don't) pay for.

Maybe I'm wrong in feeling that I am really entitled to enjoy some of this for free, but I personally feel that when you start excluding a lot of people then it becomes elitist. And not just geocaching, anything. I would like to keep this friendly, like my initial impression was and like I think it is

Then again, I might flake out next week so what does any of what I say matter? :rolleyes: :anibad:

Posted January 21, 2012 · January 21, 2012

I, too, find it odd that this is always a discussion about PMO caches and never a discussion about pocket queries or caches along a route - the top two reasons I pay for a premium membership.

That's because you pay your membership fees to Groundspeak, and CAAR is a feature provided by Groundspeak. PMO caches are not a feature provided by Groundspeak, and those who do provide it don't get any money from your membership fees. I can perfectly understand the controversy behind giving somebody access to something only when they pay somebody else for something else.

Edited January 21, 2012 by dfx

Posted January 21, 2012 · January 21, 2012

I, too, find it odd that this is always a discussion about PMO caches and never a discussion about pocket queries or caches along a route - the top two reasons I pay for a premium membership.

That's because you pay your membership fees to Groundspeak, and CAAR is a feature provided by Groundspeak. PMO caches are not a feature provided by Groundspeak, and those who do provide it don't get any money from your membership fees. I can perfectly understand the controversy behind giving somebody access to something only when they pay somebody else for something else.

I'm fairly simple-minded. All I know is that I go to Geocaching.com, where I can get a free basic membership and hunt caches one by one, or I can get a premium membership and have access to a list of perks. I don't think about who provides what - it's all under the same umbrella for me.

Perhaps it would be helpful if PMO caches were completely invisible to basic members. That might solve the "hey, there is a cache just down the road .. WHAT? what do you mean I can't have the coordinates! :mad: "

Posted January 21, 2012 · January 21, 2012

I, too, find it odd that this is always a discussion about PMO caches and never a discussion about pocket queries or caches along a route - the top two reasons I pay for a premium membership.

That's because you pay your membership fees to Groundspeak, and CAAR is a feature provided by Groundspeak. PMO caches are not a feature provided by Groundspeak, and those who do provide it don't get any money from your membership fees. I can perfectly understand the controversy behind giving somebody access to something only when they pay somebody else for something else.

I'm fairly simple-minded. All I know is that I go to Geocaching.com, where I can get a free basic membership and hunt caches one by one, or I can get a premium membership and have access to a list of perks. I don't think about who provides what - it's all under the same umbrella for me.

Perhaps it would be helpful if PMO caches were completely invisible to basic members. That might solve the "hey, there is a cache just down the road .. WHAT? what do you mean I can't have the coordinates! "

That sounds good in some ways, but it's really best that basic members can see how far away a PMO cache is when they're placing caches, so they can work with the saturation guideline.

Posted January 21, 2012 · January 21, 2012

Funny how no one complains that you have to be a PM to develop Challanges. What if it were this way with geocaches? :unsure:

Posted January 21, 2012 · January 21, 2012

PMO caches are not a feature provided by Groundspeak, and those who do provide it don't get any money from your membership fees. I can perfectly understand the controversy behind giving somebody access to something only when they pay somebody else for something else.

PMO caches are indeed a feature provided by Groundspeak. PMs can choose to have their caches only available to other PMs. Groundspeak implements the logic for that feature; thus, it is provided by Groundspeak.

The most common reason for caches to be made PMO in my area is to avoid swag rot and cache thievery. The ability to shield one's caches somewhat from the depredations of the general public is quite useful, albeit very limited for non-mystery caches.

Posted January 21, 2012 · January 21, 2012

albeit very limited for non-mystery caches.

Multi-caches are pretty well protected by PMO (the final anyway, if not the first stage). Edited January 21, 2012 by I!

Posted January 21, 2012 · January 21, 2012

albeit very limited for non-mystery caches.
Multi-caches are pretty well protected by PMO (the final anyway, if not the first stage).

Not really. The coords can be figured out by trial and error guessing as the site will say how far, and which direction the PMO cache is. Only PMO puzzle caches are really protected.

Posted January 21, 2012 · January 21, 2012

It means I cannot go and find these caches with my friends and I feel this sort of behavoiur by certain geocachers discriminating against those who cannot afford to be a premium member, shouldn't the sport of geocaching be "for all"

(bolding mine)

The "excuse" that a person can't afford it is pure bull. An inexpensive GPS can be found starting at $100 and a smart phone isn't cheap either. So if a person can afford either of those items then stretching to another $30 a year isn't all that far.

OK... so much for that. Nothing is stopping you and your friends from finding all kinds of caches, when I first started I wasn't a premium member but my partner was. It meant that I had to work a bit more to log them online. Also as someone has mentioned, I like the audit log. I can see who is looking at my listing and how many "hits" it is getting.

i cant afford a gps or smart fone so it would be pointless getting a premium membership. i have to ask my boss very nicely if i can borrow his gps devise each time i want to go caching. so the "excuse" is not "bull" at all. it is unfortunately the modern society dictating that the lower class have to miss out on the "premium" options and make do with what they've got

Posted January 21, 2012 · January 21, 2012

It means I cannot go and find these caches with my friends and I feel this sort of behavoiur by certain geocachers discriminating against those who cannot afford to be a premium member, shouldn't the sport of geocaching be "for all"

(bolding mine)

The "excuse" that a person can't afford it is pure bull. An inexpensive GPS can be found starting at $100 and a smart phone isn't cheap either. So if a person can afford either of those items then stretching to another $30 a year isn't all that far.

OK... so much for that. Nothing is stopping you and your friends from finding all kinds of caches, when I first started I wasn't a premium member but my partner was. It meant that I had to work a bit more to log them online. Also as someone has mentioned, I like the audit log. I can see who is looking at my listing and how many "hits" it is getting.

i cant afford a gps or smart fone so it would be pointless getting a premium membership. i have to ask my boss very nicely if i can borrow his gps devise each time i want to go caching. so the "excuse" is not "bull" at all. it is unfortunately the modern society dictating that the lower class have to miss out on the "premium" options and make do with what they've got

You can get a used one one Ebay for $20. Add the $30 for the membership and that is still less than a $1 a week. You can't even buy a coffee for a dollar.

Posted January 21, 2012 · January 21, 2012

To the person that said my iPhone increased the percentage of premium member caches .... Why do you feel that way?

Premium member caches around my area are usually unique containers; or more expensive ones.

One local cacher was continually having his caches trashed. He made them premium and they are still getting trashed. Suspects a fellow Geocachers.

Premium Member Only Caches

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment