Premium Member Only Caches

[+PokerLuck]

I just love it when people who get something for free complain that it's not as good as what you can get if you pay for it. The best part is that they don't seem to understand the principle at all.

 

Actually all the people who have posted here are Premium Members. No one that has posted here (or complained for that matter ) is getting something for free!!

 

While the OP is a premium member, he was complaining that his non-premium friends could not see some caches that he could see, and he complained that this was discrimination against non-premium members. His complaint was that non-premium membership was not as good as premium membership. Well, duh.

[+DcCow]

there seems to be a rise in the number of people putting out caches which are premium member only, now I am a premium member but some of my caching friends aren't. Now I understand if it's a special well cammoflaged one off cache in a high traffic area, but when it's a series of 15 - 20 35mm film canister micros I honestly don't see the need to have these as premium member only. It means I cannot go and find these caches with my friends and I feel this sort of behavoiur by certain geocachers discriminating against those who cannot afford to be a premium member, shouldn't the sport of geocaching be "for all"

 

Most hobbies or sports have an inherent cost to them, some even have different levels where you get more for paying more. I recently made all my caches PMO because of an increase in swag disappearance. I recently filled one cache up with Swag and the following day returned to drop off a TB to find the cache completely empty with no new signatures in the logbook! I think that with smart phones becoming more available to people (including children), making the ability to search for caches easier, is increasing the instances of caches being trashed. Making them PMO probably won't completely solve the problem, but I feel it will at least decrease the occurrences of this happening.

[+Croesgadwr]

there seems to be a rise in the number of people putting out caches which are premium member only, now I am a premium member but some of my caching friends aren't. Now I understand if it's a special well cammoflaged one off cache in a high traffic area, but when it's a series of 15 - 20 35mm film canister micros I honestly don't see the need to have these as premium member only. It means I cannot go and find these caches with my friends and I feel this sort of behavoiur by certain geocachers discriminating against those who cannot afford to be a premium member, shouldn't the sport of geocaching be "for all"

 

Most hobbies or sports have an inherent cost to them, some even have different levels where you get more for paying more. I recently made all my caches PMO because of an increase in swag disappearance. I recently filled one cache up with Swag and the following day returned to drop off a TB to find the cache completely empty with no new signatures in the logbook! I think that with smart phones becoming more available to people (including children), making the ability to search for caches easier, is increasing the instances of caches being trashed. Making them PMO probably won't completely solve the problem, but I feel it will at least decrease the occurrences of this happening.

 

DcCow's comments are basically the same as made by me earlier. I have no doubt that some, but not all "iphone owning non-geocaching 'geocachers'", are hell bent on spoiling the enjoyment of mainstream geocachers by using their devices to search out and tamper with available caches. I don't mean to offend anyone in making this statement because the vast majority of iphone-cachers will be genuine cachers.

Premium membership, in my opinion, is a facility that genuine cachers can use to enhance the geocaching experience. No doubt there will be those who disagree with what I say....but after all its just my opinion, and I'm entitled to it.

Premium membership.... the decision is yours, either take it or leave it. End of!!

[I!]

Not really. The coords can be figured out by trial and error guessing as the site will say how far, and which direction the PMO cache is. Only PMO puzzle caches are really protected.

I fail to see how that contradicts my assertion that Multi-caches are pretty well protected by PMO (the final anyway, if not the first stage).

[+power69]

there seems to be a rise in the number of people putting out caches which are premium member only, now I am a premium member but some of my caching friends aren't. Now I understand if it's a special well cammoflaged one off cache in a high traffic area, but when it's a series of 15 - 20 35mm film canister micros I honestly don't see the need to have these as premium member only. It means I cannot go and find these caches with my friends and I feel this sort of behavoiur by certain geocachers discriminating against those who cannot afford to be a premium member, shouldn't the sport of geocaching be "for all"

I made all my trads and easy puzzles PMO to stave off stickerboy[geomaggot]

[+latanzi]

I've never even considered making any of mine PMO but we have a fairly small Geocommunity up our way. I don't pay the fee to be part of an exclusive club I pay it because for 30 bucks a year lots of people put a great deal of effort in to publish my finds, hides and laments, and it is just a small way to show my appreciation. If I made them PMO there would be less work to do and I would get less gratification in seeing posts.

Seems like your damned if you do or........

[+TheLoneGrangers]

If they were to get rid of PMO only caches, I would stop hiding caches, the majority of my hides have unique containers, I have a LPC with 4 favorites...not bad for a LPC...lol. and there is no way I would make my multi a non PMO cache. I do not want my caches muggled by someone who has nothing better to do but go around taking caches. Just like I will try my best to put coins I find into PMO caches (not sure if it helps) but i do that to lessen the chance of a muggle.

Edited January 23, 2012 by TheLoneGrangers

[+musta9]

Caches that are avalebal for every one the swaps goodness usually goes down

[+nthacker66]

One thing I have noticed in my return to cahcing (after a nearly 2 year break) is the numbers game has gotten ridculous and those with large numbers have seemed to make "elite circles" not only with PMO caches, but now creating cahces that require items from other cahces in order to complete them, such as travel bug keys - this type of practice further shuts out other cachers when a cahce relies on a trade item in order to complete a cache. It allows a small group of cachers to "keep a cache within a certain circle." It is their perogative I guess.

 

As far as PMO cachers, I think there should be additonal guidelines in order for a cahce to be listed as such - that it has to be of higher quality and a cacher owner should only be allowed to hide a small number of PMO caches (maybe 2 or 3 per year).

[+Touchstone]

...it has to be of higher quality...

 

Like some kind of Wow Factor?

[+nthacker66]

...it has to be of higher quality...

 

Like some kind of Wow Factor?

 

I dont know that it has to be a "wow factor" but certainly not something that isn't an LPC or a "power trail" of PMO caches.

[+nthacker66]

...it has to be of higher quality...

 

Like some kind of Wow Factor?

 

I dont know that it has to be a "wow factor" but certainly not something that isn't an LPC or a "power trail" of PMO caches.

 

Although I am sure gc.com LOVES more PMO caches because then it sort of forces regular members to buy a membership. What I dread would be "invite only" caches - you see how well that worked out for terracaching. ;-)

[+Touchstone]

While I can certainly sympathize with the sentiment, I'm not sure I like the idea of a single person, or even Groundspeak for that matter, to make any judgement concerning quality.

 

That's not to say I don't see a certain logic in the argument, where say, the PM feature would be enabled after a certain number of Favorite points, or percentage basis, in which the CO would have the option of making their Listing PM. That would certainly give more people in the Community a voice in the decision.

 

However, like everything on this site, it seems like whenever a feature is removed or restricted, it causes some degree of angst or anger with some segment of the Community. I just don't see this happening anytime soon.

[4wheelin_fool]

Not really. The coords can be figured out by trial and error guessing as the site will say how far, and which direction the PMO cache is. Only PMO puzzle caches are really protected.

I fail to see how that contradicts my assertion that Multi-caches are pretty well protected by PMO (the final anyway, if not the first stage).

 

If a regular member wants to figure out the location of a PMO cache, they can. They can also log it using the backdoor method. The only way it protects it, is to make it a little more difficult. If it is a multi, all they need to do is to locate the first stage, no?

 

A puzzle cache is completely protected, as viewing the page is necessary to find it. A simple PMO puzzle would be impossible to figure out otherwise. However, a multi would only deny access to the hints.

[+L0ne.R]

Not really. The coords can be figured out by trial and error guessing as the site will say how far, and which direction the PMO cache is. Only PMO puzzle caches are really protected.

I fail to see how that contradicts my assertion that Multi-caches are pretty well protected by PMO (the final anyway, if not the first stage).

 

If a regular member wants to figure out the location of a PMO cache, they can. They can also log it using the backdoor method. The only way it protects it, is to make it a little more difficult. If it is a multi, all they need to do is to locate the first stage, no?

 

A puzzle cache is completely protected, as viewing the page is necessary to find it. A simple PMO puzzle would be impossible to figure out otherwise. However, a multi would only deny access to the hints.

 

Interesting. I did not know this. I'm a PM so I don't see what a non-member would see. So, a PMO puzzle cache description is not visible to regular members but a PMO multi cache description is (except for the hint)? Is that true for traditionals as well i.e. the hint is not visible to regular members?

 

On another note, I would think that making your cache a multi or a puzzle whether or not it's a PMO cache, would protect it from phone app newbies or even eco-warriors who really don't want to make the effort to seek out anything but traditional caches.

[4wheelin_fool]

Not really. The coords can be figured out by trial and error guessing as the site will say how far, and which direction the PMO cache is. Only PMO puzzle caches are really protected.

I fail to see how that contradicts my assertion that Multi-caches are pretty well protected by PMO (the final anyway, if not the first stage).

 

If a regular member wants to figure out the location of a PMO cache, they can. They can also log it using the backdoor method. The only way it protects it, is to make it a little more difficult. If it is a multi, all they need to do is to locate the first stage, no?

 

A puzzle cache is completely protected, as viewing the page is necessary to find it. A simple PMO puzzle would be impossible to figure out otherwise. However, a multi would only deny access to the hints.

 

Interesting. I did not know this. I'm a PM so I don't see what a non-member would see. So, a PMO puzzle cache description is not visible to regular members but a PMO multi cache description is (except for the hint)? Is that true for traditionals as well i.e. the hint is not visible to regular members?

 

No. The PMO caches come up in searches. Although regular members cannot see the page or the hints, they can figure out the coords by using trial and error guessing, since the site gives the distance and direction to where the PMO cache is located. On a puzzle cache, this only will allow them to see where the question mark icon is located on the map.

 

On another note, I would think that making your cache a multi or a puzzle whether or not it's a PMO cache, would protect it from phone app newbies or even eco-warriors who really don't want to make the effort to seek out anything but traditional caches.

 

Just make it a simple puzzle without the PMO and that is usually enough to discourage them.

Edited January 26, 2012 by 4wheelin_fool

[+A & J Tooling]

It means I cannot go and find these caches with my friends and I feel this sort of behavoiur by certain geocachers discriminating against those who cannot afford to be a premium member, shouldn't the sport of geocaching be "for all"

(bolding mine)

 

The "excuse" that a person can't afford it is pure bull. An inexpensive GPS can be found starting at $100 and a smart phone isn't cheap either. So if a person can afford either of those items then stretching to another $30 a year isn't all that far.

 

OK... so much for that. Nothing is stopping you and your friends from finding all kinds of caches, when I first started I wasn't a premium member but my partner was. It meant that I had to work a bit more to log them online. Also as someone has mentioned, I like the audit log. I can see who is looking at my listing and how many "hits" it is getting.

 

i cant afford a gps or smart fone so it would be pointless getting a premium membership. i have to ask my boss very nicely if i can borrow his gps devise each time i want to go caching. so the "excuse" is not "bull" at all. it is unfortunately the modern society dictating that the lower class have to miss out on the "premium" options and make do with what they've got

 

You have a job. Why can't you buy one? You know what I did when I was young and wanted something I couldn't afford? I got a job. If I didn't make enough, I got another job.

[+niraD]

If it is a multi, all they need to do is to locate the first stage, no?

That depends on the style of multi-cache. If the first stage is a physical ("Stage of a Multicache") stage with the coordinates for the next stage written out, then yes, all they need to do is find the first stage.

 

If the first stage is a virtual ("Question to Answer") stage, or if the first stage is a physical stage that needs information from the cache description to be interpreted correctly, then no, finding the first stage isn't going to get them to the second stage.

[+StudioZ3]

As a premium member I'm against premium member caches. I've only hidden 16 caches, and all of them were open to all who wished to search for them. That was until one of them went missing twice within a few days. Its in a particularly vunerable position and my thoughts were that it was being 'hit' by passing geo-muggles using iphones to find & destroy caches. Hence I decided to make this particular cache premium only....since I did this the cache has remained intact. So maybe I was right??

My other caches are still 'open'.

 

I would have thought so too. But I found out different when I placed my first premium member cach and made it a travel bug hotel. Wow........Most travel bugs that stayed there were stolen, taken or probably collected by "premium" members. The TB I put in there was to travel to Scotland. Never even made it one night before it was gone. I think premium membership should be like $100 or maybe even more. So those that have it, it would mean something. Or mabye a combination of other requirements. Like 100 finds.

[+Mick McPhee]

I live in a low local population but high tourist area. I have about 50 caches. I leave all caches that are larger than micro including ammo box size as open caches to all members. We have lots of foreign visitors as well as those from other states coming to the area to visit a National Monument. I want them when staying in town to have access to my caches.

 

Then when I put out a micro cache, well hidden, no TB's, and just a log, then I make it a PM cache. No use to have all the higher population of potential mugglers trashing my caches.

 

Most of my caches are visitors from outside the area. Most are snowbirds or vacationers. Those tend to be very respectful, leave good SWAG when they can, and write a nice log thanking me for the caches.

 

As for the numbers people, the only real joy I get is placing some so unique or skillfully placed that half of them can't find the cache.