Epic Multi

[+Sven.]

Why does it seem to me that most multi's are question and answer local knowledge 10 mile hike flavour caches....?

 

I'd love to see more caches like this:

 

 

with a puzzle to solve at each stage....

 

Wonder if I can go for a hat-trick on closed threads today....

[+dakboy]

Posting spoilers is not appreciated on these forums.

 

Most multis I encounter are of the hiking variety. Maybe not 10 miles, but not basic Q&A either.

[+Mr. 0]

Bored today, Sven?

 

Assuming you're asking a genuine question, and not just trying to get yourself banned again... I can't see the video, but I believe I understand what you're getting at. It's just a matter of different opinions. I personally have had more than my fill of puzzle caches, and don't have much interest in them. If there was a multi with a puzzle at every stage, I would likely never find it. However a 10 mile hike would interest me, and would be a cache I would seek.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Mr. 0

[+Touchstone]

A bit too heavily "engineered" for my tastes. I suspect getting Land Owner/Manager permission for something of that flavor is the major obstacle.

[+Sven.]

Bored today, Sven?

 

Assuming you're asking a genuine question, and not just trying to get yourself banned again...

 

 

Actually no, it was also a genuine question. I need to clone myself, I place caches that I myself would enjoy finding....But I've yet to find any caches like my own

 

Why can't you see the video?

 

Briefly:

 

Stage 1) you find a bottle with co-ordinates

Stage 2) You find a stream and a pipe....fill the pipe with water and you find a plug with co-ordinates

Stage 3) Use the plug to block a hole, then fill another pipe to retrieve a magnet with co-ordinates

Stage 4) Use the magnet to move something along plumbing pipe...once revealed it's....a key with co-ordinates.

Stage 5) Use the key to open a container to reveal further co-ordinates

Stage 6) Final.

 

Which is similar to

along a similar "tool/co-ordinates" theme.

 

But I've never seen anything even close to this, perhaps I'm on my own in this...

[Mr.Yuck]

I like it. And for the record, I liked the Prostitute cache, that was locked while I was trying to reply. See, I'm not a troll. Oh, and IBTL.

[cezanne]

But I've never seen anything even close to this, perhaps I'm on my own in this...

 

I do know quite a number of multi caches with technically involved and or creative stages in both Austria and Germany. Some of them have even much more involved stages than your example (but are are quite hard to maintain).

 

Personally, I do not like at all such caches. I like to go for a walk or hike and enjoy the nature. I am not at all fond of playing a game or searching around for a longer time. I prefer to spend my time on the physical activity and not on standing around and spend my time with searching or solving puzzles in the outdoors (if I want to solve a puzzle, I do it at home). Caches of the type you seem to like are a real burden for me.

I still vividly recall my negative experience with this cache

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=c9cab5d0-d501-43b8-8bc9-0605e50583ca

which has several involved stages. The walk from stage to stage is short and we spent almost all of the time with searching, solving puzzles, performing experiments etc. In the same time I could have walked 15 miles and would have enjoyed it.

 

 

Cezanne

Edited January 16, 2012 by cezanne

[+TeamPennyFinder]

I thought this cache was really great. I cannot believe how much detail went into planning this one. However for my personal taste it might be just a wee to much. I am short and do not have a "third" arm sometimes as my "third" arm will sit in the car at times.

 

But taken this one leg by leg. Wow.

 

I am glad that this is one of your own. I do not see how you come up with such intricate ones. Kudos!

[+Sven.]

I like it. And for the record, I liked the Prostitute cache, that was locked while I was trying to reply. See, I'm not a troll. Oh, and IBTL.

 

Turns out the post isn't in keeping with the "you're not welcome around here Sven." policy...Shame they didn't give me the opportunity to rename the post (or perhaps rename it for me....) but then they wouldn't be able to hide behind these excuses now would they. *shrug*

[+CatchyCacherton]

I really like the puzzlers like this, but I think the time/effort required to maintain them is to their detriment. For example, here in my lovely city, there was a 7 stage multi called "The Case of Inspector Vector's Missing Cache," which was very epic indeed. The CO spent many hours researching and placing the caches, only to have them all go missing one at a time. Read back through the logs and you'll see that no one ever finished it and in the 3 years it was posted the CO had to go back and replace stages multiple times due to poor choice of placement and other "muggle" interactions.

 

To celebrate my 200th find, my kids and I placed a 4 stage multi which is also fairly tricky--stage one is a fake rock, stage two is a dead-drop bolt, stage 3 needs a 9v battery to display the final coordinates, etc. It hasn't been found yet and its been published for a few months now. We just recently went to check, all stages are still there, but after the fake-rock cache I left in Salmon got 5 DNF's before I had to give someone a hint, the first stage of my multi may be rated too low. I gave the mutli a 4 overall rating, which may also dissuade folks out for a light jaunt from trying to locate it.

 

I guess it comes down to how much you want to maintain complex caches, and how many times you feel like replacing or explaining stages. I haven't had a single ask on my 4 stage yet, but its winter time in Idaho, so perhaps when things begin to thaw out more will be out searching. If you can't/don't/won't maintain a complicated cache, no matter how epic it is, people will skip it.

[+Touchstone]

...but then they wouldn't be able to hide behind these excuses now would they.

 

Yes, your display of self entitlement is coming through loud and clear now

 

There was one Multi that I did with a group that was probably a bit more involved than the one depicted in the video in IL (or maybe it was WI...I can't recall), and was a bit more to my taste. Some very clever field puzzles, the last of which put us nearly in a panic as sunset was approaching.

 

Another one, closer to home, is more along the traditional Multi model, but when all was said and done, ended up being more than 70 miles on bike and foot to finish, but did offer a COMPLETE tour of the State Park that it is located in

[Mr.Yuck]

I like it. And for the record, I liked the Prostitute cache, that was locked while I was trying to reply. See, I'm not a troll. Oh, and IBTL.

 

Turns out the post isn't in keeping with the "you're not welcome around here Sven." policy...Shame they didn't give me the opportunity to rename the post (or perhaps rename it for me....) but then they wouldn't be able to hide behind these excuses now would they. *shrug*

 

Am I crazy, or was THIS thread actually "erased", and then re-instated? I was worried about my post count.

[+Touchstone]

 

All right, Beatrice, there was no alien. The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

[+The A-Team]

Am I crazy, or was THIS thread actually "erased", and then re-instated?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was.

Anyway, IBT2L (In before the 2nd lock).

[Clan Riffster]

Why aren't there more multi's like this?

"This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius the lazy cache."

Setting up a cache like the one you posted takes a lot of effort, both physically and mentally.

There is also often a significant cost associated with building creative caches.

[+Mr. 0]

 

Why can't you see the video?

 

Briefly:

 

Stage 1) you find a bottle with co-ordinates

Stage 2) You find a stream and a pipe....fill the pipe with water and you find a plug with co-ordinates

Stage 3) Use the plug to block a hole, then fill another pipe to retrieve a magnet with co-ordinates

Stage 4) Use the magnet to move something along plumbing pipe...once revealed it's....a key with co-ordinates.

Stage 5) Use the key to open a container to reveal further co-ordinates

Stage 6) Final.

 

Which is similar to

along a similar "tool/co-ordinates" theme.

 

But I've never seen anything even close to this, perhaps I'm on my own in this...

 

I can't see it because my work blocks YouTube, and we're forced to use IE7 so it would probably choke even if I was allowed to see it. I could look it up on my phone, but from your first post you mentioned doing puzzles, so I got the jist of what you were getting at. I'll check it out when I get home if I think about it.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with puzzles, or anything like that, I just personally prefer a walk in the woods over puzzles. Around here there are lots of puzzles in the sense of "do math to get coords" or "figure out this cryptogram." All stuff you do before going to find the cache, and they seem to be pretty popular. There isn't anything that I know of like you've described, but I think it would be popular among many...as long as there is at least some indication that there are going to be some physical puzzles.

 

As for why you haven't seen anything like that, I wonder if it's a matter of people not wanting to take on the task of maintaining them. When you have to take something from one stage to the next, there's a possibility of the magnet or whatever getting lost, or more likely just not returned to the cache from which it came. To that end it's a lot "easier" to toss down a bunch of 35mm film cans with coords, or have people get info from a sign than to put in the kind of effort to make a puzzle multi like you describe...basically people, myself include, are just lazy like that.

 

Edit: I see others have mentioned pretty much the same thing.

 

Also I wanted to add, I think there's an element of doing the same as everyone else. When a new cacher comes along they find a bunch of micros, LPCs, and a few ammo cans. So when they go to hide a cache they think that's how it's supposed to be done, and just do more of the same. So, while it stinks that you can't find your own caches, keep placing them. Hopefully over time the cachers in your area will see that it doesn't have to be the same thing over and over.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Mr. 0

[+niraD]

Why aren't there more epic puzzle multi-caches? I haven't created any myself, but I know someone who has created epic puzzle multi-caches, including some of the caches on my Favorites list. Based on his experience:

 

They're hard to create. You need to design and construct all the stages, which is a lot more work than camouflaging a single container.

 

They're hard to maintain. There are more stages where something can break or go missing. The stages tend to be more complicated/fragile than a single container hidden somewhere. If the same stage keeps breaking or going missing, then you may need to redesign the stage and construct a new one. All this is a lot more work than maintaining a single camouflaged container.

 

Life gets in the way. It doesn't matter how much of an epic puzzle multi-cache you've finished designing and constructing. If there's one piece that's incomplete, then the entire thing is just a project, and no one can enjoy it yet. Likewise, if there's one piece that's broken or missing, then the entire listing is disabled and no one can complete the cache. And then the local volunteer reviewer posts a reviewer note to your disabled cache...

 

Not everyone likes creating this kind of cache. Many don't enjoy such complex caches, so they aren't interested in placing one. Others may enjoy them, but still aren't interested in constructing and owning one. If you find someone who does enjoy creating this kind of cache, then be sure to encourage them. The logs on their caches may be great, but they'll get far fewer logs than other cache owners. And they can easily get discouraged by the work required (especially the maintenance, like building yet another copy of a piece that keeps breaking or going missing).

[+A & J Tooling]

That hole looks freshly dug! And why do they use sheetmetal screws to screw the pipe clamps into the tree? Wouldn't wood screws work better? And isn't that final container glass? Off with their heads!!!

[+The_Incredibles_]

Please don't feed the Sven.

[+skraeling]

I, for one, would enjoy a multi like that. However, with that being said, there are far too many people who will not put in the effort needed for a multi... even if there really is no effort needed. I have a 2 stage multi - stage 1 with coords to final. From stage 1 to the final is about maybe 300 feet... and its not hard. Short of me just giving you the coords, its super easy - yet it has a very low find rate when compared to traditionals (even difficult ones). Why? Because its a multi.

 

And now that I have seen that video - it has given me some ideas.

[+The A-Team]

Please don't feed the Sven.

+1

[+TeamPennyFinder]

Never mind.

Edited January 16, 2012 by TeamPennyFinder

[Sandy]

I like it. And for the record, I liked the Prostitute cache, that was locked while I was trying to reply. See, I'm not a troll. Oh, and IBTL.

 

Turns out the post isn't in keeping with the "you're not welcome around here Sven." policy...Shame they didn't give me the opportunity to rename the post (or perhaps rename it for me....) but then they wouldn't be able to hide behind these excuses now would they. *shrug*

 

The entire thread - content and topic were inappropriate so it will not be reinstated.

 

And this, "you're not welcome around here Sven,"is not the stance that the Moderators - or Groundspeak - is taking. You are to adhere to the forum guidelines like everyone else. If your behavior is sanctioned, or posts removed, it is for that reason.

[+Sven.]

The entire thread - content and topic were inappropriate so it will not be reinstated.

 

And this, "you're not welcome around here Sven,"is not the stance that the Moderators - or Groundspeak - is taking. You are to adhere to the forum guidelines like everyone else. If your behavior is sanctioned, or posts removed, it is for that reason.

 

Oh hi again Sandy,

 

My 7 day ban was lifted and my posts re-instated after Moun10bike received my complaint. This has already been explained to me by him, therefore one might excuse my prior indignation when my posts are being moderated without proper cause.

[+GeoBain]

The entire thread - content and topic were inappropriate so it will not be reinstated.

 

And this, "you're not welcome around here Sven,"is not the stance that the Moderators - or Groundspeak - is taking. You are to adhere to the forum guidelines like everyone else. If your behavior is sanctioned, or posts removed, it is for that reason.

 

Oh hi again Sandy,

 

My 7 day ban was lifted and my posts re-instated after Moun10bike received my complaint. This has already been explained to me by him, therefore one might excuse my prior indignation when my posts are being moderated without proper cause.

 

Don't take it personally. Family friendly seems to be very narrowly defined these days. Stangly enough, even thought Groundspeak is apparently entering into some kind of partnership with the promoters of the Tomb Raider game series, Lara Croft is not considered family friendly either.

[+Sven.]

Don't take it personally.

 

I wont, the moderation team might be excused of making the odd mistake, especially when they're buried in frivolous reports on every single one of my posts apparently .

[cezanne]

I, for one, would enjoy a multi like that. However, with that being said, there are far too many people who will not put in the effort needed for a multi... even if there really is no effort needed. I have a 2 stage multi - stage 1 with coords to final. From stage 1 to the final is about maybe 300 feet... and its not hard. Short of me just giving you the coords, its super easy - yet it has a very low find rate when compared to traditionals (even difficult ones). Why? Because its a multi.

 

I do not think that the only issue involved is traditional versus multi. I am very fond of multi caches and e.g. walked more than 150km (split up in eight days) for a single multi cache. Also none of my caches is a single stage cache and I am willing to invest quite some time into my caches, but certainly not at the technical level. While I find it already tiresome to spend a lot of searching time in creatively hidden traditionals, it gets much worse for every additional tricky stage. I guess it mainly depends on one's motivation for going for a cache whether or not one is interested in caches with involved constructions.

 

Cezanne

[Mr.Yuck]

The entire thread - content and topic were inappropriate so it will not be reinstated.

 

And this, "you're not welcome around here Sven,"is not the stance that the Moderators - or Groundspeak - is taking. You are to adhere to the forum guidelines like everyone else. If your behavior is sanctioned, or posts removed, it is for that reason.

 

Oh hi again Sandy,

 

My 7 day ban was lifted and my posts re-instated after Moun10bike received my complaint. This has already been explained to me by him, therefore one might excuse my prior indignation when my posts are being moderated without proper cause.

 

For the record, I believed (and still do) that this thread here was erased and reappeared. Then again, I just had a conversation with The Fresh Prince of Belair.

[+Turtle_Sask]

Sven, you should make sure to make it a premium member cache only because I can see newbies not putting the stuff back! looks cool other wise

[+CanDMan47]

Don't know or care about the OT parts of this thread, but on topic, I think part of the problem with very cool puzzles like this is this: as a general rule, you can't count on cachers to go back to all the stages and replace the tools they retrieved. I don't know how far apart each stage is, but if we are talking a mile or more, I imagine most people wouldn't take the time, unless they had to go past each stage again to get to their vehicle. Then you can't count on them doing it right. That is my thought, though I loved the idea.

[+slukster]

Interesting that you posted this thread 13 minutes after your other thread, which was dormant for almost 2 months and was recently revived, was archived at 6:43am.

 

I would like to see more multi's like yours as well.

 

I have to admit that I have enjoyed watching most of your videos. Although I haven't subscribed to your channel, I do check back to it every couple of weeks. Very well made and high quality videos. I have gotten some great ideas for my future creative caches. I think knowing that all of these caches are ones I will never find makes me not be upset about them being spoiler videos. If they were local caches, I think I would not watch the videos. And if they were my caches, I would definately want you to ask permission before posting the videos of them. Just common courtesy. Regardless of whether you give the GC# or not And if it is requested to take down the video, it should be a simple "no problem" and be done with it. Simple common courtesy. I have to agree that your videos are not much different than the CCC thread. I actually came across one of the caches that had been posted to that thread but did not realize it until after I had completed the final task. It didn't spoil the cache for me. I think that you need to stop linking to your videos from these forums. It appears to me that you are only out for getting new subscribers and tooting your own horn. If you want people to enjoy your geocaches, why not just post them to the CCC thread?

 

The reason I said I enjoyed most of your videos is because your recent one ranting about reviewers in your area really turned me off to you. The way you have handled this whole ordeal with GS and other cachers caches definately put you in a negative light in my eyes. Some of the issues you complained about are ones I have dealt with in my area and they seem to have been handled in the same matter they were handled with me. And giving cachers "tips on sumitting a geocache listing" that show them ways to get around the guidelines or showing the reviewer exactly what your cache is sounds like sour grapes to me. It is a shame that a creative guy like yourself has taken a negative attitude towards the sport and your fellow cachers.

[AZcachemeister]

Looks like a fun one!

Not many hiders would be up for the maintenance headaches.

Too many ways for the table to get bumped and all the dominoes fall...

[+Sol seaker]

That one looks fun, but this one is even better:

 

Tubulaire Extrodinaire

 

It's in Seattle an an incredibly beautiful park overlooking the Puget Sound.

You can see the snow covered Olympic Mountains from there. You can watch the Ferries and the sailboats. You can see downtown Seattle across the bay there, and see the space needle. The place alone is enough,

but NO, not for this cache owner.

 

This is the best multi I've ever seen (yes, including the one linked to in this thread).

 

With this multi you get a bag of tools from the first stage, which includes a bag of rubber bands, a bag of balloons, string, nuts, a mirror, a calculator, a statue of signumd Freud, etc. etc. etc. Lots of stuff. This makes it easy, because you travel around to all the waypoints, and then the final is close enough to the beginning that it's easy to put the bag back when you're done.

 

Then you go to each waypoint and have to figure out what to use and how to use it.

Each one is TOTALLY different. 6 stops I think.

 

This guy used the water trick on an earlier cache. None here are that mundane. They are incredibly creative and tricky.

 

But I'm NOT giving any of them away. You're going to just have to go and figure it out for yourself.

 

You will NOT be disappointed!!!

[+power69]

not crazy about multis. one fail along the way = no smilie

[4wheelin_fool]

That multi is ok, but the ones in the other videos are good cheeky little numbers.

 

As long as nobody can figure out which caches they are, I dont see a problem. Just watching the videos should serve to inspire others to create more creative caches like them.

[+Sven.]

I have to admit that I have enjoyed watching most of your videos. Although I haven't subscribed to your channel, I do check back to it every couple of weeks. Very well made and high quality videos. I have gotten some great ideas for my future creative caches.

 

So what reason would you have for not subscribing?

 

I think knowing that all of these caches are ones I will never find makes me not be upset about them being spoiler videos. If they were local caches, I think I would not watch the videos. And if they were my caches, I would definately want you to ask permission before posting the videos of them. Just common courtesy. Regardless of whether you give the GC# or not And if it is requested to take down the video, it should be a simple "no problem" and be done with it. Simple common courtesy. I have to agree that your videos are not much different than the CCC thread. I actually came across one of the caches that had been posted to that thread but did not realize it until after I had completed the final task. It didn't spoil the cache for me. I think that you need to stop linking to your videos from these forums. It appears to me that you are only out for getting new subscribers and tooting your own horn. If you want people to enjoy your geocaches, why not just post them to the CCC thread?

 

Crikey what an odd contradictory paragraph.

 

It's ok but NIMBY, and god forbid them being your own....They must absolutely be removed without a hint of justification...

 

Whilst you've seen a cache spoilt before, it didn't actually spoil it, but regardless I shouldn't be posting videos here, even if they're my own caches.

 

WAT.

 

And giving cachers "tips on sumitting a geocache listing" that show them ways to get around the guidelines or showing the reviewer exactly what your cache is sounds like sour grapes to me. It is a shame that a creative guy like yourself has taken a negative attitude towards the sport and your fellow cachers.

 

I haven't given anyone tips on how to get around any guidelines. But it is indeed sour grapes. I enjoy caching, I really enjoy placing my own caches but it has been made to be impossible for me being on the reviewer blacklist, and someone who takes exception to my videos has been stealing or damaging every single one of my caches.

 

So yes, I might be excused for feeling a little sour.

 

Anyway you'll want to be careful letting this thread run offtopic, whilst TPTB will happily sit back and let the likes of Sandy post OT stuff I got $10 says the mods will be here in a flash if me or you do it.

[+Sven.]

as a general rule, you can't count on cachers to go back to all the stages and replace the tools they retrieved.

 

A clever cache creator will create the cache in such a way that the user must pass back by stages to replace contents on their caching hunt. At least, that's how I did it. Not had a problem so far...