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What happened to Geocaching.com?


gbrandon

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I've been a premium member since 2002. I am not a geocaching fanatic like some on here. In fact, I bet I have gone geocoding less than 10 times in 10 years. But now that I have kids, my son is interested in it so we have become more involved but I am quickly losing my patience with it.

 

The questions I have and the problem's I see are a few things;

 

1) Why is it so complicated to submit a new cache? I went on a hike with my family and we placed the cache, I came back and listed it on geocaching.com but it kept saying the cache listing needed to be submitted and it was not listed for public view. The problem is there was no (visible) option that I saw to do this.

I went to the FAQ and did not see any reference to this either. Finally after a week went by I received a email saying my cache was too far away from my home location (i hadn't updated my geocaching.com address form my home in Las Vegas to my home in California where I had placed the cache) so it would not be listed. OK, fair enough, I understand the need to screen new cache submissions but if you really want to get new people involved and make it a more user friendly experience , you might want to make show a message like "your cache has been submitted for review and you will be notified by email within x amount of days if it is approved." Seems pretty simple to do this, but the current method of a screen refresh with a ambiguous message to the submitter about leaving a note is horrible.

 

2) Even after I replied to the email about my address, I was informed that since it was in a wilderness area I couldn't place the cache, but other caches in the area were grandfathered in and If I would like to submit my cache again I would need permission from the forest service to place the cache. So tell me, where are acceptable places outside city and urban areas to place a cache if I can't place it in a wilderness area? In my case, I'm surrounded by either private timber land or national forests and state parks. I have no interest in placing a cache in the middle of the city, so why the crackdown on PUBLIC lands? It seems odd that it's okay to hike or mountain bike there but it's not ok to leave a geocache there. I'ts incredulous to me that my small container is causing a bigger footprint than my mountain bike.

 

3) After generating a query and then going out and searching and then realizing that it's no longer there just plain sucks. What methods are in place to prevent this? I would think that maybe after 60 days of no activity the cache owner would get a email saying "60 days have passed, please check your cache to make sure it's still there and if we don't hear back from you in x amount of days we are disabling the cache". As it is now, if I don't see a log entry for the cache in the last 30 days, I don't bother looking because I've wasted time in the past and it takes the fun out of it. There have been times I have contacted the CO and they were helpful in letting me know that yes, it was in fact still there and I just didn't find it, but for the other times, its not very inspiring for children to search and then find nothing.

 

4) As a new geocacher, the most frustrating thing seems to be generating cache lists. it just me or does this site seem convoluted to navigate and generate queries? As a computer network engineer, I hope I have a good grasp of navigating website's correctly, but I will be honest and say thats its probably faster to configure a cisco switch than it is to generate a query for geocaches in my area. Maybe you've upgraded the query generator since the last time I used it a year or so ago but if not, Is this really the best you can do? I don't expect much out of a free service or site but when Im paying a premium I do.

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Point #1: great idea. I agree a simpler system is needed.

 

Point #2: The, so called, "crackdown", is a result of Land Manager concerns, submitted to Groundspeak. Land Managers, in most cases, are either hired or appointed by public officials that you, hopefully, vote for. In the case of Designated Wilderness Areas, this is a Policy of the National Forest Service, not Groundspeak. Non Wilderness Areas, such as National Forest land in CA, is generally OK.

 

Point #3: I am not in favor of such a punative policy.

 

Point #4: I've never had much difficulty with the PQ generator, but there is a dizzying array of filter options that make it look more confusing than it actually is.

 

Welcome back and good luck with any future hunts.

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I was under the impression that Groundspeak always had a review process.

 

At the bottom of the cache submission form are two boxes that you had to check before submitting the cache for review.

 

Did you read those boxes and click on the links or did you just check them off without paying any attention to what they said?

 

Yes. I have read and understand the guidelines for listing a cache.

 

Yes. I have read and agree to the terms of use agreement.

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What happened to Geocaching.com? Geocaching became more active and progressed to how we know it today, while you set out and did not keep up with the progress. You must have money to throw around if you are a PM and very seldom ever use the site. :laughing: I'm sure your $'s have helped support this site to become what it is today. :anibad: All the problems you state are things that many of us are aware of and have no issues with. Rules changed on many Public lands because geocaching has became a National hobby and land managers have to deal with the added work that we created for them by hiding geocaches, so fees were applyed. Hopefully mine stay grandfathered. :laughing:

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I've been a premium member since 2002. I am not a geocaching fanatic like some on here. In fact, I bet I have gone geocoding less than 10 times in 10 years. But now that I have kids, my son is interested in it so we have become more involved but I am quickly losing my patience with it.

 

The questions I have and the problem's I see are a few things;

 

2) Even after I replied to the email about my address, I was informed that since it was in a wilderness area I couldn't place the cache, but other caches in the area were grandfathered in and If I would like to submit my cache again I would need permission from the forest service to place the cache. So tell me, where are acceptable places outside city and urban areas to place a cache if I can't place it in a wilderness area? In my case, I'm surrounded by either private timber land or national forests and state parks. I have no interest in placing a cache in the middle of the city, so why the crackdown on PUBLIC lands? It seems odd that it's okay to hike or mountain bike there but it's not ok to leave a geocache there. I'ts incredulous to me that my small container is causing a bigger footprint than my mountain bike.

 

That decision was not made by the Geocaching community or Groundspeak, nor do I think it's a blanket policy of the whole parks service. It's up to the individual land manager to allow Geocaches to be placed on public land. Some people see it as litter...carefully hidden and maintained litter but litter nonetheless. They wouldn't let you leave your tent up for months at a time unattended, they don't want you leaving ammo cans out there either.

 

Face it, there are some wilderness areas, belonging to the PUBLIC, where they won't even allow the PUBLIC to go. Much less plant caches out there.

 

It may well be that the particular park you have in mind DOES allow geocaches, either approved individually or as a policy. Reviewers just need to confirm that you DO have permission to place a cache there.

 

 

3) After generating a query and then going out and searching and then realizing that it's no longer there just plain sucks. What methods are in place to prevent this? I would think that maybe after 60 days of no activity the cache owner would get a email saying "60 days have passed, please check your cache to make sure it's still there and if we don't hear back from you in x amount of days we are disabling the cache". As it is now, if I don't see a log entry for the cache in the last 30 days, I don't bother looking because I've wasted time in the past and it takes the fun out of it. There have been times I have contacted the CO and they were helpful in letting me know that yes, it was in fact still there and I just didn't find it, but for the other times, its not very inspiring for children to search and then find nothing.

 

It's wise to read over the Recent Logs on any cache to see if there is a possibility that it is missing, especially before dragging the kids on a two-mile hike for nothing. That's just a part of preparation, just like checking the weather forecast before you head out on a hike. Just because the cache hasn't been found in 30 or 60 days does not automatically mean it's missing...maybe it's just in a very remote location and doesn't get visited often, or is very tricky to find and some folks just miss it. You have to consider all these factors. (A cache in Canada named "4.5 Lb Walleye" was placed over 10 years ago and has not been found yet. It's just WAY out in the wilderness and no one has been able to get at it.)

 

What you really should look for in the logs is a long history of successful finds followed by a sudden string of DNF's (Did Not Find). That is usually an indication that something happened to the cache.

 

If you have a real legitimate reason to suspect that the cache is missing (besides that you couldn't find it) then posting a Needs Maintenance log to alert the owner would be appropriate. If you've taken that step and time passes and the owner doesn't address the problem, then a Needs Archived log would be posted to alert the reviewer that maintenance has been requested and the owner does not appear to be inclined to maintain his cache.

 

 

4) As a new geocacher, the most frustrating thing seems to be generating cache lists. it just me or does this site seem convoluted to navigate and generate queries? As a computer network engineer, I hope I have a good grasp of navigating website's correctly, but I will be honest and say thats its probably faster to configure a cisco switch than it is to generate a query for geocaches in my area. Maybe you've upgraded the query generator since the last time I used it a year or so ago but if not, Is this really the best you can do? I don't expect much out of a free service or site but when Im paying a premium I do.

 

Pocket Queries seem a little daunting at first, but once you get the hang of it they're really easy. I find the easiest way is to search for caches with the Google Maps feature, and zoom in or out to frame the area you're interested in. Then click "Generate Pocket Query" on the left side of the screen. Done.

 

Now, getting the PQ into your GPS can be tricky or easy depending on your computer and the model of GPS you are using.

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I'm puzzled by your complaints because it seems as if most of them could be answered by reading the information on the website and looking at "Geocaching 101" listed under the "Learn" pulldown on the home page.

 

My guess is that you are remembering how it used to be when you were active back in 2002. We've been geocaching since 2006, and boy, have things changed! There are many many more cachers now, and so the space available for caches, especially in urban areas, has been shrinking. The VOLUNTEER reviewers (I emphasize that they are Volunteers, not staff of the geocaching.com website) do a great job, for the most part.

 

Like everyone else wanting to place a cache, you have to know and observe the rules for submitting your cache. If you don't understand how to do it, or have a problem with getting permission, you should contact your local reviewer. Just find a cache in your locale that was published not too long ago; go down to the very first log, showing that the cache was approved. Click on the reviewer name and send him or her an e-mail asking for guidelines for the local area.

 

Most parks and recreation areas have had to implement geocaching policies to protect their land from overuse. Geocachers have worked hard to convince land managers that geocaching is a positive activity to bring people into nature, but that has caused the need for more regulation, since some cachers are not as careful as they should be about leaving the environment undisturbed.

 

As far as going to seek a cache and then learning that it's missing or has been archived, just go on the website and pull up the caches you want to visit to make sure they have been found recently, or check the cache description page before you go. It is too bad that not all cachers maintain their hides, but that's just a fact of life. You'll find out that some of your local cachers are more careful about cache maintenance than others, and you'll want to find their caches rather than waste time on caches placed and forgotten by someone who didn't stay active in the hobby.

 

I'm not qualified to address your problems with using the search functions of the website, but I'm sure someone will give you that information.

 

I will just say that improving how geocaching works is the responsibility of everyone who plays the game. Most of us enjoy it a great deal and feel that the geocaching website is a great value for the small fee charged to be a premium member. For less per year than my husband and I spent eating breakfast out this morning, we get 12 months of enjoyment!

Edited by The VanDucks
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#2

What is really odd is how a cache can be grandfathered in. Before geocaching ever started it was illegal to leave anything lying around in designated wilderness land. Anything placed out there before groundspeaks current guideline should have been removed. You many get approval on some public lands but I don’t believe you can get one on designated wilderness land.

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#1 Maybe it's because I've done it 200+ times, but submitting a new cache is easy, If you read every line!

 

#2 It's not up to Groundspeak where we can place caches legally, you should read the guidelines first.

 

#3 There's nothing that can be done. I have a cache that hasn't been found in two years, but is still sitting waiting to be found. I've had a cache go missing between two groups of cachers that were there the same day.

 

#4 PQ's are like programing. Start easy, just put in a ZIP code, then start adding AND / OR logic later.

 

If you want to complain about changes over the last few years, here's a list:

 

1 CHALLENGES

2 Souvenirs

3 Benchmark database never updated

4 Powertrails

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It is unclear if anyone from Groundspeak uses the main forum for anything other than as a source of entertainment. If you really want to help make improvements, consider moving to one of the topics Groundspeak has provided for discussing the site:

 

For general discussions about the website: Community Q&A and Discussions: Geocaching.com Website

 

For website bugs and feature requests: Discussions With Grounspeak: Geocaching.com Website

 

There is a post pinned at the top of each of the above topics explaining their intended use. You also have the option of emailing Groundspeak at contact@geocaching.com.

 

You've touched on several of the most common usability problems, so it would be best not to just dump the whole topic as a single feature request or bug report, but I hope you will consider rerouting your concerns into the channels that Groundspeak has provided. Thanks for posting.

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1) Why is it so complicated to submit a new cache?

There have been many request to simplify the cache submission process. In particular make the check box that the cache is active and ready to be review stand out a little better. Grounspeak has made some progess in this area but not nearly enough, IMO.

 

There are some FAQs on the site that make it clear that reviewers will look at your home coordinates/address to make sure you are not leaving a vacation cache that you cannot maintain. It shouldn't be hard to find these, but certainly as the guidelines have developed over the years things are no longer going to be as simple as they once were.

2)So tell me, where are acceptable places outside city and urban areas to place a cache if I can't place it in a wilderness area?

The guidelines for hiding caches say you as the hider must get adequate permission to hide a cache. That means its your responsibility to find out from the land manager if you can hide a cache there or not. When you submit your hide you check a box saying that you read and understood this and other guidelines for cache placement. In general, it's easier to hide a cache on public land than in the city. But if you don't check on permission you may get caught as you did.

 

In dealing with caches placed in national forest over the years the reviewer have discovered that the Forest Service is generally friendly to geocaching, however there are certain area they do not want to have caches. Designated wilderness areas are almost always mentioned when a unit of the National Forest sets up a geocaching policy. One place to look is to search the websit of the National Forest unit where you want to hike and see if they have a policy. (Since the reviewer denied your cache I suspect the do). If they don't then call or email the Forest Service to ask.

 

The California State Parks has a geocaching policy here.

 

Of course many cachers just place caches without getting permission or assume that if a cache already exists in an area its okay to place caches there. The old "Frisbee rule" doesn't work in as many places as it once did.

 

3) After generating a query and then going out and searching and then realizing that it's no longer there just plain sucks. What methods are in place to prevent this?

This problem probably existed back in 2002 as well. Though it is certainly much worse today. People hide geocaches then quit the game after a few months. Eventually these caches go missing and there is no cache owner to check on them or do maintenance. The method in place to control this is the Needs Archive log (and the DNF log). If you don't find a cache log a DNF. Unless you log a DNF the owner doesn't know the cache may be missing and they will not go out and check. If after several DNFs, an onwer appears to be ignoring the cache, you can post a Needs Archive. That is often enough to get the owner to finally take action. But if they don't the reviewer will likely disable the cache so it can be excluded from a query, and then archive the cache to remove the listing altogether.

 

If you find a cache that appears to be in conflict with the guidelines for placement you can also post a Needs Archive to draw the attention of the reviewer.

 

4) As a new geocacher, the most frustrating thing seems to be generating cache lists. it just me or does this site seem convoluted to navigate and generate queries?

It's very difficult to create a UI for querying a database that is both flexible and intuitive to use. As a network engineer, you probably could do better with some sort of query language to write what you want. But the site has work for people with little or no programming skills as well. Groundspeak has chosen a form where you select the caches you want to include or exclude from your query. They are aware that this causes problems because people tend to choose combination that result in no caches being returned. (E.g. cache that I have found AND that I haven't found). There are some third party sites - like this one - that provide some better instruction on creating pocket queries. Groundspeak can certainly us some better tutorials to help people setup pocket queries.

 

One important hint that many people miss is that you can preview the results of a pocket query before you schedule it to run. This lets yo verify that it is returning the caches you want so you can tweek the PQ until it is right. The preview is not subject to the limits of 5 per day that you have with the full PQ. What happens is that people don't catch this and use up all five PQ trying to get the right results and then get frustrated.

 

#2

What is really odd is how a cache can be grandfathered in. Before geocaching ever started it was illegal to leave anything lying around in designated wilderness land. Anything placed out there before groundspeaks current guideline should have been removed. You many get approval on some public lands but I don’t believe you can get one on designated wilderness land.

The Wilderness laws are not so clear as this. While wilderness area supposed to be pristine and have no man-made structure, the supervisors are given a bit of leeway in granting exceptions. For example a bridge or other improvement on a trail, picnic tables, primitive campground facilities, etc. all get built in certain wilderness areas. There are even wilderness areas where the supervisors have given permission for geocaches.

 

Groundspeak reviewers tend to allow the cache since the cache owner has checked a box saying they got permission. However, when they are aware of a particular geocaching policy of no caches in a wilderness area, the reviewers will ask what permission was received when someone attempts to hide a cache in one.

 

It probably would make sense when they become aware of a geocaching policy that bans caches that Groundspeak archive existing caches unless the cache owner can show they got permission. However they have chosen not to do this unless the managing agency asks them to. If an agency were to ask Groundspeak to archive the existing caches in a wilderness area, I don't doubt that all the grandfathered caches would be archived by the next day.

 

Another example occurs when lands are designated wilderness that previously weren't wilderness. Agencies generally don't go and remove improvements from these areas right away. Instead they stop maintaining them and let nature reclaim the land over time. In the same way, caches in these area will slowly die of attrition and new caches won't be placed.

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1) Why is it so complicated to submit a new cache?

There have been many request to simplify the cache submission process. In particular make the check box that the cache is active and ready to be review stand out a little better. Grounspeak has made some progess in this area but not nearly enough, IMO.

There have been a few mentions by Groundspeak in some threads around here that the revised submission process will be unveiled in this Tuesday's site update. I expect some long-standing issues will be resolved, such as the hidden "Enable" checkbox. Maybe they'll make the attributes more visible so new cachers actually apply them. I also sincerely hope that they re-word the "Enable" box to say that the container MUST be in place and the cache ready to be found before ticking it.

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What happened to Geocaching.com? It has evolved over the years. I've been here since 2004, and have kept up with the changes. (As best I can...)

Yeah. You used to be able to hide a cache almost anywhere. Guidelines have emerged to control them. Many places permit/control or ban caches... Vacation caches no longer permitted. No maintenance on them. Oh, you're also complaining about caches without maintenence.

Welcome back. Now get up to speed with what geocaching has evolved into. (Not that I'm a nerd, but I'm doing pretty good...)

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The thing that confuses me is that it wouldn't let you place a cache somewhere you do not live. I know there are caches here that are owned by people that don't even live my town, let alone in the county. I don't know if there is a pass for people who are here part time or what, but there's a few caches owned by people that I don't recognize at all. Seems alright so far.

 

As far as checking the cache every 60 days goes... I don't know if I buy it. I think it's a good idea, but I don't think someone is going to check just because 60 days have gone by without anyone bothering to log it. People don't always log things the same day they found they found. There's one I haven't found and when you look at the log book on the website, it's kind of jacked up. There's a no find (this is a 1/1 regular sized cache), then a found but that find was a week ago right around the did not find, then mine (did not find). And this cache is owned by a scout troop from a county that doesn't neighbor mine. While it would be nice for someone to confirm that yes, it's gone, I'm pretty positive that it's gone.

 

People have a hard enough time checking to make sure log books are okay or that there is enough decent swag that they're not going to check every 60 days just because.

 

With the wilderness area thing.... Placing a cache outside the city is fine. However, most wilderness areas are special areas set aside to keep wild. Some of these places allow traffic and some suspend all forms of travel (including hiking). While I don't agree with every single wilderness area out there, I do understand the need for such places. If yours was in such an area and the reviewer decided not to approve it, then pick it up and move it. Check online and see what all this area includes. When you fall off the horse....

 

I hope your son enjoys geocaching :) Hopefully you and he can find a good place to hide one.

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As a computer network engineer, I hope I have a good grasp of navigating website's correctly, but I will be honest and say thats its probably faster to configure a cisco switch than it is to generate a query for geocaches in my area. Maybe you've upgraded the query generator since the last time I used it a year or so ago but if not, Is this really the best you can do? I don't expect much out of a free service or site but when Im paying a premium I do.

 

i am an accountant, i have no problem navigating the site, in fact i find it very intuitive

 

what kind of query? since i signed up 4 years ago i don't remember any fundamental changes, still all the same

 

you acknowledge you have been out 10 times in last 10 years...what do you mean by "What happened to Geocaching.com?"...what are you comparing it with?

Edited by t4e
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I was under the impression that Groundspeak always had a review process.

 

At the bottom of the cache submission form are two boxes that you had to check before submitting the cache for review.

 

Did you read those boxes and click on the links or did you just check them off without paying any attention to what they said?

 

Yes. I have read and understand the guidelines for listing a cache.

 

Yes. I have read and agree to the terms of use agreement.

 

I quickly read through the guidelines for listing a cache. I never read the TOS of ANY site, as they are worthless, and the end result is always the same, either agree or don't come to the website. Not much to read once you understand that.

 

What happened to Geocaching.com? Geocaching became more active and progressed to how we know it today, while you set out and did not keep up with the progress. You must have money to throw around if you are a PM and very seldom ever use the site. :laughing: I'm sure your $'s have helped support this site to become what it is today. :anibad: All the problems you state are things that many of us are aware of and have no issues with. Rules changed on many Public lands because geocaching has became a National hobby and land managers have to deal with the added work that we created for them by hiding geocaches, so fees were applyed. Hopefully mine stay grandfathered. :laughing:

 

Money to throw around? Umm.. geocaching as a hobby in general is cheap, and unless your on a fixed income by the state or government I don't consider $20 or whatever it is to be a hardship for me. I can't think of any other hobby as cheap as geocaching.

 

#1.

You should receive an email once the cache has been submitted saying around the same thing you said: "your cache has been submitted for review and you will be notified by email if it is approved"

 

I did the hike on Jan 6th, I submitted Jan 7th or 8th, and received a response on Jan 12. That's 4 days for a email confirmation. Not very timely if you ask me.

 

 

It's wise to read over the Recent Logs on any cache to see if there is a possibility that it is missing, especially before dragging the kids on a two-mile hike for nothing. That's just a part of preparation, just like checking the weather forecast before you head out on a hike. Just because the cache hasn't been found in 30 or 60 days does not automatically mean it's missing...maybe it's just in a very remote location and doesn't get visited often, or is very tricky to find and some folks just miss it. You have to consider all these factors. (A cache in Canada named "4.5 Lb Walleye" was placed over 10 years ago and has not been found yet. It's just WAY out in the wilderness and no one has been able to get at it.)

 

Pocket Queries seem a little daunting at first, but once you get the hang of it they're really easy. I find the easiest way is to search for caches with the Google Maps feature, and zoom in or out to frame the area you're interested in. Then click "Generate Pocket Query" on the left side of the screen. Done.

 

Now, getting the PQ into your GPS can be tricky or easy depending on your computer and the model of GPS you are using.

 

The hike is actually 8 miles round trip, and on that occasion my son just wanted to place a cache. We have done the hike in the past so it's not like it was a special trip just for the geocache. And transferring PQ's into my Delorme or my Garmin is extremely simple.

 

In the end, I doubt I will do much geocaching in the future, it's just too much of a pain in the a** for what its worth, and I sure won't be renewing my membership here. I will go back and replace that cache somewhere that's in line with groundspeaks guidelines, but It's not groundspeaks job to say where a cache can be, just like a site owner can't be liable for what someone else posts on your website. (i.e., Facebook, etc) you should be able to list a site ANYWHERE and Groundspeak can list the disclaimer that the cache *may be somewhere not permitted by local law* and leave it up to the cache finder if he wants to pursue it or not. (47 USC 230) This nitpicking micromanagement by Groundspeak is one of the reasons why other geocaching sites are appearing on the web.

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It's not groundspeaks job to say where a cache can be, just like a site owner can't be liable for what someone else posts on your website. (i.e., Facebook, etc) you should be able to list a site ANYWHERE and Groundspeak can list the disclaimer that the cache *may be somewhere not permitted by local law* and leave it up to the cache finder if he wants to pursue it or not. (47 USC 230) This nitpicking micromanagement by Groundspeak is one of the reasons why other geocaching sites are appearing on the web.

Groundspeak made a decision early on to represent geocaching as a fun, family-friendly, legal activity. In doing so they adopted a review process and guidelines that included getting permission. Just as they refuse to publish caches where the cache page promotes and agenda or serves a commercial purpose, they can refuse to publish caches that were placed without proper permission or that are in locations where it is know that permission is unlikely.

 

There are some guidelines where I agree with you that Groundspeak is making arbitrary decisions. For example, the saturation guideline is arbitrary. Sure there may be a reason to keep two caches from being right on top of one another, but the .1 rule is totally arbitrary. And then they've created more rules regarding logging of cache finds online. Originally, cache owners were free to delete any logs on their cache they felt were bogus, counterfeit, off-topic, or not withing stated requirements. When cache owners began stating their own requirements, and cachers began to complain about deleted logs, Groundspeak changed the guidelines to forbid cache owners from having additional requirements to log caches.

 

Groundspeak and active geocaching communities around the world have worked with land managers to develop support for geocaching in many parks where they were first banned (or at least treated with suspicion). By not publishing caches where they know a land manager restricts their placement, the volunteer reviewers promote a feeling among land managers that caches won't become problems and any restrictions that the land manager may wish to have will have some degree of enforcement. Once complaint about some alternative geocaching sites has been that they undermine this trust that has been fostered with land managers

 

BTW you can't put whatever you want on your Facebook page. But since you never read the TOUs of a website you wouldn't know this.

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I was under the impression that Groundspeak always had a review process.

 

At the bottom of the cache submission form are two boxes that you had to check before submitting the cache for review.

 

Did you read those boxes and click on the links or did you just check them off without paying any attention to what they said?

 

Yes. I have read and understand the guidelines for listing a cache.

 

Yes. I have read and agree to the terms of use agreement.

 

I quickly read through the guidelines for listing a cache. I never read the TOS of ANY site, as they are worthless, and the end result is always the same, either agree or don't come to the website. Not much to read once you understand that.

 

What happened to Geocaching.com? Geocaching became more active and progressed to how we know it today, while you set out and did not keep up with the progress. You must have money to throw around if you are a PM and very seldom ever use the site. :laughing: I'm sure your $'s have helped support this site to become what it is today. :anibad: All the problems you state are things that many of us are aware of and have no issues with. Rules changed on many Public lands because geocaching has became a National hobby and land managers have to deal with the added work that we created for them by hiding geocaches, so fees were applyed. Hopefully mine stay grandfathered. :laughing:

 

Money to throw around? Umm.. geocaching as a hobby in general is cheap, and unless your on a fixed income by the state or government I don't consider $20 or whatever it is to be a hardship for me. I can't think of any other hobby as cheap as geocaching.

 

#1.

You should receive an email once the cache has been submitted saying around the same thing you said: "your cache has been submitted for review and you will be notified by email if it is approved"

 

I did the hike on Jan 6th, I submitted Jan 7th or 8th, and received a response on Jan 12. That's 4 days for a email confirmation. Not very timely if you ask me.

 

 

It's wise to read over the Recent Logs on any cache to see if there is a possibility that it is missing, especially before dragging the kids on a two-mile hike for nothing. That's just a part of preparation, just like checking the weather forecast before you head out on a hike. Just because the cache hasn't been found in 30 or 60 days does not automatically mean it's missing...maybe it's just in a very remote location and doesn't get visited often, or is very tricky to find and some folks just miss it. You have to consider all these factors. (A cache in Canada named "4.5 Lb Walleye" was placed over 10 years ago and has not been found yet. It's just WAY out in the wilderness and no one has been able to get at it.)

 

Pocket Queries seem a little daunting at first, but once you get the hang of it they're really easy. I find the easiest way is to search for caches with the Google Maps feature, and zoom in or out to frame the area you're interested in. Then click "Generate Pocket Query" on the left side of the screen. Done.

 

Now, getting the PQ into your GPS can be tricky or easy depending on your computer and the model of GPS you are using.

 

The hike is actually 8 miles round trip, and on that occasion my son just wanted to place a cache. We have done the hike in the past so it's not like it was a special trip just for the geocache. And transferring PQ's into my Delorme or my Garmin is extremely simple.

 

In the end, I doubt I will do much geocaching in the future, it's just too much of a pain in the a** for what its worth, and I sure won't be renewing my membership here. I will go back and replace that cache somewhere that's in line with groundspeaks guidelines, but It's not groundspeaks job to say where a cache can be, just like a site owner can't be liable for what someone else posts on your website. (i.e., Facebook, etc) you should be able to list a site ANYWHERE and Groundspeak can list the disclaimer that the cache *may be somewhere not permitted by local law* and leave it up to the cache finder if he wants to pursue it or not. (47 USC 230) This nitpicking micromanagement by Groundspeak is one of the reasons why other geocaching sites are appearing on the web.

I live on a fixed income from the govenerment and I don't find $30 a year a hardship to be a preimum member here or I would just use the site as a basic member when I don't have the funds. But I'm glad Groundspeak keeps an eye out on where new listings are allowed. I don't like things no better than you do, but things happened and we geocachers lost free access to some public lands. You can still place geocaches in approved areas if you pay the $59 per cache placement for one year permit. I'm sure plenty of people can pick up the tab and place some new geocaches to find. I'm not playing the money game, and it's not Groundspeak. Anyone in this hobby knows that folks that founded this site have worked to keep public areas open.

Edited by Manville Possum Hunters
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... but It's not groundspeaks job to say where a cache can be, just like a site owner can't be liable for what someone else posts on your website. (i.e., Facebook, etc) you should be able to list a site ANYWHERE and Groundspeak can list the disclaimer that the cache *may be somewhere not permitted by local law* and leave it up to the cache finder if he wants to pursue it or not. (47 USC 230) This nitpicking micromanagement by Groundspeak is one of the reasons why other geocaching sites are appearing on the web.

 

While a part of me generally agrees with this sentiment, you have to understand that US law is only a fraction of the equation and can't be used as an excuse. We're talking international here.

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I was under the impression that Groundspeak always had a review process.

 

At the bottom of the cache submission form are two boxes that you had to check before submitting the cache for review.

 

Did you read those boxes and click on the links or did you just check them off without paying any attention to what they said?

 

Yes. I have read and understand the guidelines for listing a cache.

 

Yes. I have read and agree to the terms of use agreement.

 

I quickly read through the guidelines for listing a cache. I never read the TOS of ANY site, as they are worthless, and the end result is always the same, either agree or don't come to the website. Not much to read once you understand that.

Since you "quickly" read through the guidelines, you doubtless missed some of the finer points. Stuff like you need to have someone local to the cache lined up to maintain it for you, and tell GS who that is.

 

#1.

You should receive an email once the cache has been submitted saying around the same thing you said: "your cache has been submitted for review and you will be notified by email if it is approved"

I did the hike on Jan 6th, I submitted Jan 7th or 8th, and received a response on Jan 12. That's 4 days for a email confirmation. Not very timely if you ask me.

You submitted on Saturday or Sunday, and got an answer on Thursday. That's a pretty good return rate. The Reviewer (volunteers remember, with their own lives) may have seen it Monday or maybe Tuesday. This is pretty close to a normal time-frame.

 

 

It's wise to read over the Recent Logs on any cache to see if there is a possibility that it is missing, especially before dragging the kids on a two-mile hike for nothing. That's just a part of preparation, just like checking the weather forecast before you head out on a hike. Just because the cache hasn't been found in 30 or 60 days does not automatically mean it's missing...maybe it's just in a very remote location and doesn't get visited often, or is very tricky to find and some folks just miss it. You have to consider all these factors. (A cache in Canada named "4.5 Lb Walleye" was placed over 10 years ago and has not been found yet. It's just WAY out in the wilderness and no one has been able to get at it.)

 

 

In the end, I doubt I will do much geocaching in the future, it's just too much of a pain in the a** for what its worth, and I sure won't be renewing my membership here. I will go back and replace that cache somewhere that's in line with groundspeaks guidelines, but It's not groundspeaks job to say where a cache can be, just like a site owner can't be liable for what someone else posts on your website. (i.e., Facebook, etc) you should be able to list a site ANYWHERE and Groundspeak can list the disclaimer that the cache *may be somewhere not permitted by local law* and leave it up to the cache finder if he wants to pursue it or not. (47 USC 230) This nitpicking micromanagement by Groundspeak is one of the reasons why other geocaching sites are appearing on the web.

 

In fact, it is Groundspeak's job to say where we can put caches that we list on THEIR site.

 

If you don't like their rules, go play in someone else's sandbox...if they last long enough. Most of the other sites are dead or might as well be.

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And then they've created more rules regarding logging of cache finds online. Originally, cache owners were free to delete any logs on their cache they felt were bogus, counterfeit, off-topic, or not withing stated requirements. When cache owners began stating their own requirements, and cachers began to complain about deleted logs, Groundspeak changed the guidelines to forbid cache owners from having additional requirements to log caches.

The latter does not, IMO, negate the former. A cache owner is still supposed to police his caches for cache they felt are bogus, counterfeit, off-topic. The stated requirements part is all they were objecting to, and those stated requirements were arbitrary requirements that were quickly getting way out of hand.

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In response to #3. I went out last week to a fairly remote area and found a cache that was last found in May (7 months ago). It had one DNF in July but no other logs since. Loved the rush of finding it. I even got a note from the CO saying that I saved them a maintenance run since I found it and it was in good condition.

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#1 and #2 Cache ownership can be full of frustration. Since you are very new to geocaching, I would suggest staying away from it for the time being.

 

#3 50% of the time before I go out, I check recent logs on caches I'll be looking for. I also update my GPS frequently so can check the logs when I'm out there. Geocaching is not just about finding the cache, it's about enjoying the location too.

 

#4 It took a while for me to figure out pocket queries, but I don't remember it being terribly frustrating. Once you get it set up, you don't need to do it each time, just have it automactially run once/week.

Edited by The_Incredibles_
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#1.

You should receive an email once the cache has been submitted saying around the same thing you said: "your cache has been submitted for review and you will be notified by email if it is approved"

 

I did the hike on Jan 6th, I submitted Jan 7th or 8th, and received a response on Jan 12. That's 4 days for a email confirmation. Not very timely if you ask me.

 

 

Although 72hrs is the average time it takes, 4 days is not at all unusual. Like said above by Shop99er, these are volunteer reviewers who can't always be at their desk reviewing caches.

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I did the hike on Jan 6th, I submitted Jan 7th or 8th, and received a response on Jan 12. That's 4 days for a email confirmation. Not very timely if you ask me.

 

Just to clarify one slightly misleading point. It appears that you submitted your Listing on the 7th (when the page was generated), but you did not Enable your Listing for Review until the 12th. Krypton posted a Note regarding the issue with the Wilderness Area on the same day. I know there's some confusion with that pesky Enable box on the Listings, and hopefully that will get cleared up with the next Update or two.

 

It's pretty unusual for a Listing to go stale in the CA Review Queue :)

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I did the hike on Jan 6th, I submitted Jan 7th or 8th, and received a response on Jan 12. That's 4 days for a email confirmation. Not very timely if you ask me.

 

Just to clarify one slightly misleading point. It appears that you submitted your Listing on the 7th (when the page was generated), but you did not Enable your Listing for Review until the 12th. Krypton posted a Note regarding the issue with the Wilderness Area on the same day. I know there's some confusion with that pesky Enable box on the Listings, and hopefully that will get cleared up with the next Update or two.

 

It's pretty unusual for a Listing to go stale in the CA Review Queue :)

 

And especially confusing since both the position on the submission form, and the default value, was changed, and to the best of my knowledge, not mentioned in the release notes. I do prefer the unchecked default, but the text should be in red until the box has been checked. And perhaps a messagebox displayed when the Submit button is hit and the checkbox is unchecked.

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I did the hike on Jan 6th, I submitted Jan 7th or 8th, and received a response on Jan 12. That's 4 days for a email confirmation. Not very timely if you ask me.

To clarify, the OP's cache was reviewed on a same-day basis once it was enabled for review.

In the end, I doubt I will do much geocaching in the future, it's just too much of a pain ... for what its worth, and I sure won't be renewing my membership here. I will go back and replace that cache somewhere that's in line with groundspeaks guidelines, but It's not groundspeaks job to say where a cache can be, just like a site owner can't be liable for what someone else posts on your website. (i.e., Facebook, etc) you should be able to list a site ANYWHERE and Groundspeak can list the disclaimer that the cache *may be somewhere not permitted by local law* and leave it up to the cache finder if he wants to pursue it or not. (47 USC 230) This nitpicking micromanagement by Groundspeak is one of the reasons why other geocaching sites are appearing on the web.

The activity may have started out as the Wild West "anything goes" atmosphere that you pine for, but had it stayed that way, the website and the sport would have died years ago (or at best, gone "underground"). Land manager pressure caused that. Either be sure that published land manager policies are honored, or see geocaching banned in that park system.

 

I worked on the Pennsylvania State Parks and State Forests policy in the Fall 2002/ Spring 2003 era, which led directly to my selection as Pennsylvania's first volunteer cache reviewer. We now keep track of literally dozens of land manager policies across the state. Most other states are the same way, as is Canada and England. Mainland Europe, take note.

 

If you don't want to follow published land manager policies, well, sorry to see you go.

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In the end, I doubt I will do much geocaching in the future, it's just too much of a pain in the a** for what its worth, and I sure won't be renewing my membership here. I will go back and replace that cache somewhere that's in line with groundspeaks guidelines...

 

If you plan to maintain the cache, great! But, if you are getting out of geocaching and don't plan on keeping up with it, please don't place it.

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I will go back and replace that cache somewhere that's in line with groundspeaks guidelines, but It's not groundspeaks job to say where a cache can be

You're absolutely correct. You can place a geocache anywhere you want. Publishing the coordinates to a vast audience is the tricky part. You can hide your cache and post "Wanna find a geocache? Go to (coordinates) and see what I hid!" on a community bulletin board if you so desire. Or post the coordinates on Facebook. Or hire a plane to fly across the sky with the coordinates on a banner. Or spray paint them on your car. Or a hundred other ways.

 

Geocaching.com is the biggest fish in the pond, with a huge membership and Groundspeak set up guidelines to have your geocache published on their website. If your cache doesn't meet those guidelines, it won't be published. But, they're not standing over you with a newspaper, ready to swat if you place a cache in a spot they don't allow. It simply won't be listed on their site.

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