Garmin Montana 650

January 9, 2012

Everyone:

I am a user of the Garmin Montana 650 and feel like I know my way around a GPS pretty well. I am running the latest software version 3.70, and have discovered a very annoying issue with the odometers and track log, which I will describe as briefly as possible:

I will power up the unit to do a short hike. Everything works fine. Sometime later, I will return to my car, power down the unit, and drive to a new location. At my new location, I power up the unit again to start another short hike, and this is where things head south. The unit will often draw a straight line track from my original ending point to my new starting point. Seconds later, all odometers will instantaneously add that mileage to the counter.

So let's say for instance, I reset everything, clear track log, then set out to hike 2.0 miles. I return to my car, power down, drive a distance of 8 miles as the crow flies, and power up again. My trip odometer and track distance will instantly jump to 10.0 miles before I have moved an inch, and an 8-mile straight track line will appear on the map, connecting my two locations.

To put it in another context, if you were to power on at LaGuardia Airport, walk around a bit. Power off, fly to LA, and power on again. You'd have a 3000 mile straight track line across the US and all odometers will instantly increase by 3000 miles.

None of my other Garmins behave this way, and it's a pain to keep accurate track of my distance if, for example, I hike in the morning and jog in the evening. To reproduce the problem is simple. Power up, get a good fix, power down, drive to a new location, and power up again. While it may not happen every time, it will happen a good majority of the time. I plan to report the problem to garmin immediatley, and hope you will do the same if you can reproduce the issue.

I'm going to fiddle with settings over the next few days, including pressure trending when power on vs. power off, etc. It just seems very bizzare behavior. If anyone has any experience, fixes, or advice, please share. Thanks.

2.1k · January 10, 2012

Two of the default (included) shortcuts are "Tracklog Off" and "Tracklog On". As far as the recorded tracklog goes they're a workaround for the moment.

I'm not sure if there even is a true issue here persay. From what I recall that's how it's always been. I may be wrong. I fully agree with you though, wouldn't it make sense to ONLY log track/odometer data only under a sat-lock condition?

One wierd thing is that even when you hit the "Tracklog Off" button, i.e. are NOT recording a track, the "Track Distance" odometer field keeps on counting regardless. How hard would it be to disable the "Track Distance" counter while the tracklog is off? -- Answer, not very hard, it's simply an oversight on Garmins end.

Edited January 10, 2012 by yogazoo

January 10, 2012

Two of the default (included) shortcuts are "Tracklog Off" and "Tracklog On". As far as the recorded tracklog goes they're a workaround for the moment.

I'm not sure if there even is a true issue here persay. From what I recall that's how it's always been. I may be wrong. I fully agree with you though, wouldn't it make sense to ONLY log track/odometer data only under a sat-lock condition?

One wierd thing is that even when you hit the "Tracklog Off" button, i.e. are NOT recording a track, the "Track Distance" odometer field keeps on counting regardless. How hard would it be to disable the "Track Distance" counter while the tracklog is off? -- Answer, not very hard, it's simply an oversight on Garmins end.

Thanks yogazoo. I've never seen it log this way, on the eTrex Vista HCX or the Oregon 450, and I've been a frequent user for years. I can echo what you said about the "Tracklog Off" feature. Yes, it indeed still counts on the track distance field even with "Tracklog Off", which is a red flag that it's not performing its intended function.

From what I remember, I still had the odometer / track issue by toggling off/on the tracklog as I ended one hike and later began another. I will try again tomorrow and see what happens.

The other thing that doesn't make sense is that, on mine, the track distance and trip odometer readings are always excatly identical, which makes me yet more suspicious. It's been known for a long time that these two readings will always differ, sometimes by a little, occasionally by a lot, and there are various reasons for that, including satelite reception quality.

It's nice that they've included the new data fields, and I can make use of them when I head out to play, that is if they work. For now I have very little faith in any of the odometer readings.

Edited January 10, 2012 by gpsnavigator2012

1.1k · January 10, 2012

Yes, it is a legitimate problem ....

At one time or another, nearly every previous Garmin model has had the problem on some ver of software/firmware and Garmin has fixed it.

Normally,(most units) when you turn the unit off and then back on, it starts a new track or portion in the "current" file.

Notify Garmin of the action and they can fix it like they have others.

Work around.....clear before you start, then manually save at the end,.... clear before you start #2 and save at the end of #2....etc.

Kinda a PITA for now but they CAN fix it with a future update.

2.1k · January 10, 2012

The "Track Distance" field is designed to be the same as the "Trip Odometer". The only difference is when they reset. "Track Distance" resets to zero when you clear the tracklog. "Trip Odometer", on the other hand, resets when you reset the trip data. They both log distance traveled at 1 second intervals which gives you a more accurate record of distance associated with any particular tracklog since most people truncate tracks by setting the resolution to something less than 1 second intervals ("Auto" mode will still truncate regardless of whether or not it's set to "Most Often"). Garmin needs to make the "Track Distance" field respond to turning your tracklog on or off (like I referred to in the previous post).

Edited January 10, 2012 by yogazoo

2.1k · January 10, 2012

Yes, it is a legitimate problem ....

At one time or another, nearly every previous Garmin model has had the problem on some ver of software/firmware and Garmin has fixed it.

All I remember are those cross country straight line tracklog segments from power off to power on. My old 60csx, whichever firmware it was running at the time, always seemed to behave like this but it's been a while. I do think I remember seeing the tracklog only recording during a satellite lock on my Montana at one point but thought that it made too much sense and that I may have dreamt it. Put this one on the list of stuff to fix eh. I've been sending Garmin beta teams links to specific threads in these forums and they seem to respond nicely to it. It gives them some background and discussion on the issue at hand.

Edited January 10, 2012 by yogazoo

3.3k · January 10, 2012

Everyone:

I am a user of the Garmin Montana 650 and feel like I know my way around a GPS pretty well. I am running the latest software version 3.70, and have discovered a very annoying issue with the odometers and track log, which I will describe as briefly as possible:

I will power up the unit to do a short hike. Everything works fine. Sometime later, I will return to my car, power down the unit, and drive to a new location. At my new location, I power up the unit again to start another short hike, and this is where things head south. The unit will often draw a straight line track from my original ending point to my new starting point. Seconds later, all odometers will instantaneously add that mileage to the counter.

So let's say for instance, I reset everything, clear track log, then set out to hike 2.0 miles. I return to my car, power down, drive a distance of 8 miles as the crow flies, and power up again. My trip odometer and track distance will instantly jump to 10.0 miles before I have moved an inch, and an 8-mile straight track line will appear on the map, connecting my two locations.

To put it in another context, if you were to power on at LaGuardia Airport, walk around a bit. Power off, fly to LA, and power on again. You'd have a 3000 mile straight track line across the US and all odometers will instantly increase by 3000 miles.

None of my other Garmins behave this way, and it's a pain to keep accurate track of my distance if, for example, I hike in the morning and jog in the evening. To reproduce the problem is simple. Power up, get a good fix, power down, drive to a new location, and power up again. While it may not happen every time, it will happen a good majority of the time. I plan to report the problem to garmin immediatley, and hope you will do the same if you can reproduce the issue.

I'm going to fiddle with settings over the next few days, including pressure trending when power on vs. power off, etc. It just seems very bizzare behavior. If anyone has any experience, fixes, or advice, please share. Thanks.

My old 60CSx did similar things, I'd turn it off and drive to another cache only to find straight lines across the map where it filled in the gap on the track log. I don't recall it affecting the trip odometer, although it may have done. I do have some recollection of having to break a track log into sections to figure out how far I walked over multiple loops but forget whether that was because I left it switched on while driving frome one layby to another.

January 10, 2012

Thanks to all, very useful feedback. Grasscatcher, I will try your work around this week, as I just found the menu items for saving tracks.

Follow up - I tried the save/clear track work around before power off and it failed to stop the excess mileage upon the next power on. It does appear, for the moment, that I can avoid the long straight line tracks by toggling off/on track logging upon power down and power up. But, no matter what, the "as the crow flies" mileage between your last end point and next start point is still added, even with a completely clear track log and the track log off. I wonder if it is related to the fact that the track distance data field continues counting up, even with the tracklog off.

I'm glad they thoroughly tested it's functionality before it was released. I have sent the Montana Beta team two separate e-mails, one describing the tracklog / odometer behavior from power up to power up, and the other documenting the track distance continuing to count even with tracklog switched off.

We'll see how they respond. Hopefully quick because it shouldn't operate this way.

Edited January 10, 2012 by gpsnavigator2012

January 13, 2012

Everyone:

I am a user of the Garmin Montana 650 and feel like I know my way around a GPS pretty well. I am running the latest software version 3.70, and have discovered a very annoying issue with the odometers and track log, which I will describe as briefly as possible:

I will power up the unit to do a short hike. Everything works fine. Sometime later, I will return to my car, power down the unit, and drive to a new location. At my new location, I power up the unit again to start another short hike, and this is where things head south. The unit will often draw a straight line track from my original ending point to my new starting point. Seconds later, all odometers will instantaneously add that mileage to the counter.

So let's say for instance, I reset everything, clear track log, then set out to hike 2.0 miles. I return to my car, power down, drive a distance of 8 miles as the crow flies, and power up again. My trip odometer and track distance will instantly jump to 10.0 miles before I have moved an inch, and an 8-mile straight track line will appear on the map, connecting my two locations.

To put it in another context, if you were to power on at LaGuardia Airport, walk around a bit. Power off, fly to LA, and power on again. You'd have a 3000 mile straight track line across the US and all odometers will instantly increase by 3000 miles.

None of my other Garmins behave this way, and it's a pain to keep accurate track of my distance if, for example, I hike in the morning and jog in the evening. To reproduce the problem is simple. Power up, get a good fix, power down, drive to a new location, and power up again. While it may not happen every time, it will happen a good majority of the time. I plan to report the problem to garmin immediatley, and hope you will do the same if you can reproduce the issue.

I'm going to fiddle with settings over the next few days, including pressure trending when power on vs. power off, etc. It just seems very bizzare behavior. If anyone has any experience, fixes, or advice, please share. Thanks.

I have a new Montana and am having the exact same problem. I couldn't figure our for a while why it was adding so many kms to my trip odometer, but then I noticed that it was adding the distance to the ofrom the place I last switched it off, to the current position. I had an oregon until I lost it a few months ago and it definitely did not do this. I would say it's definitely a bug and have just reported it to Garmin. It's a shame as I like to set myself distance goals and can forget about that until this is resolved.

On a separate note, it's a real shame they didn't put the Wherigo app on there.

January 15, 2012

At Kathiella & others who may find this helpful:

After a week of experimenting with it under different settings, I think I may have found a simple work around to avoid excess tracks and mileage for those interested. It seems all you need to do is begin moving BEFORE you power it on after arriving your new location. I've had three successful trials at this where no excess tracks or mileage appeared. But again, it's very important to be moving, walking pace seems enough, before turing it on.

For some reason, the immediate movement it detects upon powering up correctly creates a new track portion at your new location. A handy work around for now, but something Garmin must soon fix.

Hopefully this in fact works all the time. Keep me posted, and keep bugging Garmin too.

January 16, 2012

I found the auto Track line drawing useful when measuring property acres, and sqr ft for a garden or lawn, when using any 60 series.

Starting with a clear track log, and tracking off, then go over to the first corner, keeping the 60 above my head level, to keep the best Sat lock, then holding the unit above the corner about 3 to 5 sec, then tracks on for about 3 to 5 sec, then off. Now over to the next corner any way I please, avoiding the barbed wire fence, mud hole etc. Repeat the other corners, as above for the first one. I end up getting the acres, or sqr ft, without having to "walk the line".

I hope that one can do that with the newer models.

2.1k · January 17, 2012

My alarm failed to wake me up three times this past weekend. Don't trust it, you'll eventually get burned like I did.

When it fails to go off I press the power button and immediately get a white screen. That tells me the unit tried to wake up but got flummoxed before it booted up.

1.1k · January 17, 2012

At Kathiella & others who may find this helpful:

After a week of experimenting with it under different settings, I think I may have found a simple work around to avoid excess tracks and mileage for those interested. It seems all you need to do is begin moving BEFORE you power it on after arriving your new location. I've had three successful trials at this where no excess tracks or mileage appeared. But again, it's very important to be moving, walking pace seems enough, before turing it on.

For some reason, the immediate movement it detects upon powering up correctly creates a new track portion at your new location. A handy work around for now, but something Garmin must soon fix.

Hopefully this in fact works all the time. Keep me posted, and keep bugging Garmin too.

GPSN,

Here's what I was referring to above... it's a timing issue.

Turn unit on and let it get a lock.

At your starting point, Clear track log then start your ride/hike/etc

At the end of that portion Save track. (can either leave unit on or off between portions)

Now, at the beginning of the next portion,clear track and start again. At the end, save.

On your trial you described, you saved the first portion, then cleared track log, then turned unit off. In the (seconds) before you turned it off, it logged that current position. When you turned it back on, it logged your new current position (and added the distance between the two) That's where the straight line came from.....and it would think that you moved REALLY FAST between those two consecutive data points.

Clearing the track log (at your starting point, instead of at your previous ending point)clears any logged data points (back to the last time you "saved")....which in this case would mean the points logged where you turned it off and the points logged where you turned it on......and the connecting line.

Hope this helps.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Grasscatcher

January 18, 2012

Thanks Grasscatcher.

Tried your sequence of events, as described though, and it doesn't work

Even with the tracklogging completely de-activated, I'm still getting excess mileage.

Only way I can prevent it is by starting to move and then powering up.

1.1k · January 19, 2012

OK, sorry it didn't help......I never even use the odometer.

But it did get rid of the straight connecting lines didn't it?

I have other software that I edit any/all track data with , so If I do ever get the straight line(s)I just clip/break them and do any other editing/cleanup necessary, and end up with separate individual tracks. I only/always use the distance logged by the individual tracks and pay no attention to the odometer.

March 5, 2012

I reported the above problem to Garmin and it took like a week to get them to finally accept that it is indeed a bug. I had to send them tracks by e-mail and finally they stopped telling me to reinstall the software and actually tested it.

on 19 Jan I got an e-mail telling me that they have reproduced the problem and will fix it but they wrote that they can't tell me when. Then they closed my ticket!

I had to log it on the german garmin site because I bought the device in Germany.

I installed 3.9 this weekend all excited that the problem might be fixed but sadly no. Additionally I now have a bunch of new bugs where it freezes when i call up geocaches.

So I'm not happy with Garmin right now.

I just wrote to ask for an update.

March 5, 2012

Hi!

I'm new here and also new to using "real" gps units.

One function I really miss from my smartphone's different gps apps is "start record now" and stop and pause as well. To me it's one of the most important functions of the gps. When I read about your problem that it never stops recording even if turned on/off I thought that would be a function that resolves that problem. It can't be that hard to include a function like that?

I did do like a few of you and put shortcuts of tracklog on/off, but it seemed to only show or not show the track because it recorded all the time even if turned on/off. Hopefully Garmin will fix this.

I found a setting in settings/tracks/tracklog that lets me choose to record (hidden or not) or not record. Is that the same as tracklog on/off? I haven't tried it yet. I have made shortcuts for those settings so I will try them later.

I will also report the problem to Garmin.

March 9, 2012

Just to let you know that Garmin replied and sent me a link to the new beta firmware 3.94

so here it is in case you want to try it. I just installed it so didn't have time to check whether the problem has been solved.

http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=5679

December 11, 2013

I have a Montana 600, seeing this same issue. This is an older thread and I thought I'd check and see what people have been doing, or was this ever solved for them. I'm on software version 5.40, which seems to be much newer than the versions discussed in this thread. Any new updates? Any success with working with Garmin?

My use case is that we want to track a hike or a ride. The workflow we need to use to track individual routes is to get to the beginning of our hike/ride, turn on the Garmin and clear any active track. Then start the hike/ride and at the end save the active track. That will give us just that track.

The clearing of the active track at the beginning seems to be an extra step, not sure if there is a better workflow for this. If we leave it alone, you get these long straight line jumps between different hikes when we turn off the Garmin and go to the next location which could be on a totally different day of course.

December 12, 2013

I have a Montana 600, seeing this same issue. This is an older thread and I thought I'd check and see what people have been doing, or was this ever solved for them. I'm on software version 5.40, which seems to be much newer than the versions discussed in this thread. Any new updates? Any success with working with Garmin?

My use case is that we want to track a hike or a ride. The workflow we need to use to track individual routes is to get to the beginning of our hike/ride, turn on the Garmin and clear any active track. Then start the hike/ride and at the end save the active track. That will give us just that track.

The clearing of the active track at the beginning seems to be an extra step, not sure if there is a better workflow for this. If we leave it alone, you get these long straight line jumps between different hikes when we turn off the Garmin and go to the next location which could be on a totally different day of course.

I made the original post. Honestly, I have given up on this issue, since many don't even view it as an issue. I still disagree with that position, as this seems to me to be very odd behavior, especially since it also screws up all of your odometers. The "solution" is, as you point out to continually save, clear, and reset. That doesn't really work for me as I like the ability to track monthly mileages for multiple hiking trips (like the older Garmin units were capable of). Oh well, I don't even use the thing that much anymore, and it really isn't worth what I originally paid, with this, and all of the other glitches we've encountered over the years. Mostly using the android phone now, it gets me 6-8 hours on a single full charge running GPS in the wilderness. I just make sure I keep it watertight at all times.

Garmin Montana 650

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