Electronic Compass

[+Scorpio49]

Considering purchase of Etrex 20 or 30. I know the 20 does not have an electronic compass - so does it have a compass at all and what is the difference? I've used my son's Garmin 62ST and like that compass, but too rich for my blood.

 

Also the Magellan 310 - does that have a compass to guide me to the geocche?

 

Thanks as you can teell new to this.

[jholly]

Considering purchase of Etrex 20 or 30. I know the 20 does not have an electronic compass - so does it have a compass at all and what is the difference? I've used my son's Garmin 62ST and like that compass, but too rich for my blood.

 

Also the Magellan 310 - does that have a compass to guide me to the geocche?

 

Thanks as you can teell new to this.

Just about all gps have a "compass". Some can only use the gps calculations to show the direction of travel. And when you stop you can turn it any which way and the compass will not respond. Also at low speed it gets very inaccurate and jumpy, but it is a compass. The eTrex 30 has an electronic compass which is used at lower speeds and when standing still. This compass senses the earths magnetic field. At some speed it also switches to the GPS calculation compass. The GPS compass works by if I was there a second ago and I am now here I must be moving in this direction.

[+Cardinal Red]

Considering purchase of Etrex 20 or 30. I know the 20 does not have an electronic compass - so does it have a compass at all and what is the difference? I've used my son's Garmin 62ST and like that compass, but too rich for my blood.

 

Also the Magellan 310 - does that have a compass to guide me to the geocche?

 

Thanks as you can teell new to this.

 

To designate that their GPS product does have the ability to sense the earths magnetic field, most manufacturers use the term "Electronic Compass". Quite a few GPS manufactures use the term "Pointer Screen" to indicate you will have an arrow to follow, without actually mentioning that it does not in any way sense the earths magnetic field. To suggest (even with follow up explanation) that a "Pointer Screen" GPS has a Compass is a disservice. I can use a Butter Knife as a Screwdriver, but I would never say that just about all silverware comes with a screwdriver.

 

The ONLY model you asked about in your post that has an "Electronic Compass" is the Etrex 30. The other two can only point the way to caches by way of moving position updates from the GPS satellite constellation. And quite frankly for most users that is enough. Note that if you accidentally turn on an uncalibrated "Electronic Compass", you will think your GPS has lost it's mind till you figure out the problem. In very rough terrain where your movements are slow and restricted, an "Electronic Compass" can be your friend. An "Electronic Compass" is just a tool, and like any tool it is only useful if you learn how to use it properly.

[+Chief301]

Considering purchase of Etrex 20 or 30. I know the 20 does not have an electronic compass - so does it have a compass at all and what is the difference? I've used my son's Garmin 62ST and like that compass, but too rich for my blood.

 

Also the Magellan 310 - does that have a compass to guide me to the geocche?

 

Thanks as you can teell new to this.

 

To designate that their GPS product does have the ability to sense the earths magnetic field, most manufacturers use the term "Electronic Compass". Quite a few GPS manufactures use the term "Pointer Screen" to indicate you will have an arrow to follow, without actually mentioning that it does not in any way sense the earths magnetic field. To suggest (even with follow up explanation) that a "Pointer Screen" GPS has a Compass is a disservice. I can use a Butter Knife as a Screwdriver, but I would never say that just about all silverware comes with a screwdriver.

 

The ONLY model you asked about in your post that has an "Electronic Compass" is the Etrex 30. The other two can only point the way to caches by way of moving position updates from the GPS satellite constellation. And quite frankly for most users that is enough. Note that if you accidentally turn on an uncalibrated "Electronic Compass", you will think your GPS has lost it's mind till you figure out the problem. In very rough terrain where your movements are slow and restricted, an "Electronic Compass" can be your friend. An "Electronic Compass" is just a tool, and like any tool it is only useful if you learn how to use it properly.

 

Well stated

[+eusty]

Some people love them others think the are a waste of time.

 

I'm in the 'love them' camp as they can be really useful to find a cache.

[+dfx]

I can't see the point myself, so guess I'm in the other camp

 

That's probably because you don't have one

 

Once you got used to having one, you don't wanna miss it again!

[+dfx]

Hmmmm ... you may be right ... but I think in all the years I've been walking, geocaching and using a GPS the times I've had to pull out a compass to tell me which way is up is two. Think I can live with that, maybe my sense of direction is better than yours

 

No, not at all. I've been the same, I didn't have a device with an integrated compass and I tried to substitute with a separate regular compass. I ended up never using it, I did just fine without it. But now I do have an integrated compass, and like I said, I wouldn't wanna miss it again. Not because I couldn't do without it, but simply because it's so incredibly convenient to have it.

[+dfx]

Interesting comment ... can you say why it's so incredibly convenient when you clearly, as you also say, 'did just fine without it'? I'm always willing to be persuaded ...

 

It's just one less thing you have to think about. The compass will always point the right way. the map will always be rotated the right way. You don't have to think about where you came from to figure out which way the arrow is pointing. You don't have to remind yourself to keep moving to get an updated direction reading, in case you're not sure. You don't have to pay attention to the directional readings all the time while you're approaching GZ to keep track of where "this way" is.

[+dfx]

Fair comment. Understand though that they need calibrating quite a lot?

 

Depends. Older style 2-axis electronic compasses (as found in the 60csx) apparently do. More modern 3-axis ones (as found in the new Oregons, eTrexes, Dakotas...) only do with certain batteries. I've been using many different NiMH batteries over 1.5 years I've had it and never had to recalibrate.

[+JohnnyVegas]

I own three GPS'rs with Digital triaxeial compasses and I have never found a need for the compass function. IMO it is a marketing tool for GPS companies. Now keep in mind the directional arrow and the compass are not the same. I think I hve found 2 or 3 caches that were puzzles that rerquired a compass to find the cache, but I use a base plate compass, easier to use and not batteries required.

For those of you that are into Ham Radio, it is like buying a hand held radio with 40 functions when you only need about 4. It is just marketing.

Edited January 7, 2012 by JohnnyVegas

[Grasscatcher]

Go back and read Post # 3......about 10 times...

Then read Post #4

[+twistyipper]

Here is the question----with the non electronic compass will I get direction to the cache without movement?--this is what the argument seems to boil down to in my opinion.

[+twistyipper]

double post--sorry

Edited January 7, 2012 by twistyipper

[+coggins]

Here is the question----with the non electronic compass will I get direction to the cache without movement?--this is what the argument seems to boil down to in my opinion.

Unless the GPS has an Electronic Compass, you will need to be moving. I have and use both. For Geocaching, I prefer the one with an electronic compass. Edited January 7, 2012 by coggins

[+JohnnyVegas]

Here is the question----with the non electronic compass will I get direction to the cache without movement?--this is what the argument seems to boil down to in my opinion.

In the early years of geocaching there was no such thing as a magenetic compass in a GPS and gachers were finding caches just fine.

Garmin added a biaxial compass which was a joke because they had to be level to work. Magellan introduce the Triaxial compass that will work better. But for less than $10.00 you can get a real compass.

[+Cardinal Red]

In the early years of geocaching there was no such thing as a magenetic compass in a GPS and gachers were finding caches just fine.

Garmin added a biaxial compass which was a joke because they had to be level to work. Magellan introduce the Triaxial compass that will work better. But for less than $10.00 you can get a real compass.

 

I still on occasion make use of that Garmin "joke" biaxial compass. While I agree it is not optimal, it is functional. I see your finds are confined to a small number of western states. My range is a small number of eastern states, mostly Pennsylvania. Perhaps we have totally different GPS experiences. More than a few of my finds were on steep, vegetation covered slopes. And that vegetation was obscuring lots of rocks and fallen trees. Throw in a frequently bouncing GPS fix to complete the script (we get a lot of that in rocky areas of Pennsylvania). A Pointer Screen (non magnetic) is nearly worthless in such movement restricting terrain, and my INTEGRATED "electronic compass" is worth more to me than your "real compass" would be. That's not theoretical speculation. That's real world experience. When I am on flat clear terrain (like a Vegas street or desert?) I turn the compass off. When I encounter the conditions I described above, I turn it on and calibrate it. It often gets me where I need to be.

 

How many of your finds were made in tough conditions similar to what I described above? If the answer is very few or none, I totally dismiss your opinion about the value of an "electronic compass" and a so called "real compass". If you have found a lot of those hide types with your "real compass", I applaud your tenacity.

[+ecanderson]

I can't see the point myself, so guess I'm in the other camp

As so appropriately noted above ...

In very rough terrain where your movements are slow and restricted, an "Electronic Compass" can be your friend.

Try dense brush or any number of other circumstances.

 

It's advantage that a lot of 'flatlanders' never come to appreciate. Join us in the western half of Colorado some time.

[+ecanderson]

Fair comment. Understand though that they need calibrating quite a lot?

With regard to Garmin, they don't need recalibration if you keep cells in them of something near the voltage that existed when you ran the calibration. There are several threads on that particular topic around here from the last couple of years.

 

I haven't recalibrated my Oregon 450 in many months - and only then, it was because I didn't have any backup cells with me.

Edited January 8, 2012 by ecanderson

[+ecanderson]

Here is the question----with the non electronic compass will I get direction to the cache without movement?--this is what the argument seems to boil down to in my opinion.

In the early years of geocaching there was no such thing as a magenetic compass in a GPS and gachers were finding caches just fine.

Garmin added a biaxial compass which was a joke because they had to be level to work. Magellan introduce the Triaxial compass that will work better. But for less than $10.00 you can get a real compass.

First, before I owned a handheld, I was using a clunky TomTom automotive GPS to find caches, and I was finding caches. "Fine" would definitely be in the eye of the beholder.

 

Twisty's comment is EXACTLY spot on. It's not always possible or desirable or even safe to keep moving in order to get a bearing to the cache from where you're standing, or when having to move very slowly due to terrain issues. That's where an electronic compass becomes exceptionally handy.

 

Those who like their caches in parking lots have no need for an electronic compass. Those who chase them in somewhat more 'challenging' terrain will truly appreciate them.

[+ecanderson]

But for less than $10.00 you can get a real compass.

In the middle of a rock scramble, what is it that you do you to get that ordinary compass to give you a bearing to proceed towards the cache? Yes, it can be done. No, it's not very convenient.

 

I'll take an instantaneous reading any day to having to sort that out.

[+EScout]

I own three GPS'rs with Digital triaxeial compasses and I have never found a need for the compass function. IMO it is a marketing tool for GPS companies. Now keep in mind the directional arrow and the compass are not the same. I think I hve found 2 or 3 caches that were puzzles that rerquired a compass to find the cache, but I use a base plate compass, easier to use and not batteries required.

For those of you that are into Ham Radio, it is like buying a hand held radio with 40 functions when you only need about 4. It is just marketing.

I agree.

The build in electronic function uses battery life, and you have to calibrate it or worry that it is not calibrated, and trust that the calibration is accurate, and you cannot sight with it like a regular compass. I always configure my GPSrs "compass" screen to show distance and direction to the waypoint/cache. When hiking and come to a fork, or terrain decision, look at the direction and set my compass and sight it, and make decision forward. Stopping and siting the compass takes a few seconds and gives time to consider next move. Plus, when in an unfamiliar area, you are taking out your real compass regularly and noting direction and taking bearings to landmarks.....

Edited January 8, 2012 by EScout

[+JohnnyVegas]

In the early years of geocaching there was no such thing as a magenetic compass in a GPS and gachers were finding caches just fine.

Garmin added a biaxial compass which was a joke because they had to be level to work. Magellan introduce the Triaxial compass that will work better. But for less than $10.00 you can get a real compass.

 

I still on occasion make use of that Garmin "joke" biaxial compass. While I agree it is not optimal, it is functional. I see your finds are confined to a small number of western states. My range is a small number of eastern states, mostly Pennsylvania. Perhaps we have totally different GPS experiences. More than a few of my finds were on steep, vegetation covered slopes. And that vegetation was obscuring lots of rocks and fallen trees. Throw in a frequently bouncing GPS fix to complete the script (we get a lot of that in rocky areas of Pennsylvania). A Pointer Screen (non magnetic) is nearly worthless in such movement restricting terrain, and my INTEGRATED "electronic compass" is worth more to me than your "real compass" would be. That's not theoretical speculation. That's real world experience. When I am on flat clear terrain (like a Vegas street or desert?) I turn the compass off. When I encounter the conditions I described above, I turn it on and calibrate it. It often gets me where I need to be.

 

How many of your finds were made in tough conditions similar to what I described above? If the answer is very few or none, I totally dismiss your opinion about the value of an "electronic compass" and a so called "real compass". If you have found a lot of those hide types with your "real compass", I applaud your tenacity.

people have been navigating in all types of terrian for hundreds of years using magnetic compasses. To say a magnetic compass us usless in tough contiditions is a rather silly statement. Like I have said, I think of only two caches in which I used a magmetic compass. Once again in the early years of geocaching there was not such thing as a GPS with a built in compass. Geocachers were finding caches for many years all over the U.S. with GPS units that did not have magnetic compass.

[+The Frosties!]

Johnnyvegas.

I suspect you missed cardinal's point. As I read it he's not suggesting that a magnetic compass can't be used, only that it's less convenient that having that function built into the device? Perhaps analogous we found our first 40 or so caches without any hiking boots or decent gear, now we have most of the stuff we want we wouldn't be without it. It was certainly possible before we had the boots, but we wouldn't be without them now.

[WrongwayUK]

You can use just a magnetic handheld compass. However as stated, its convenience. I like how my GPSr automatically reverts to an electronic compass when I drop below a certain walking pace. This keeps my reading more steady and consistent. But if your on a tight budget then fair enough. There are ways around not having an electronic compass just the same as there are ways around not having a paperless GPSr. Theres even ways around not having a GPSr! For me. I am one for all the bells and whistles, bring em on. Always was a sucker for new things and gadgets.

[+Cacheoholic]

Yeah and I love heated side view mirrors on my car too. I don’t have to have them but they sure are convenient!

[+BAMBOOZLE]

This discussion comes up time and again and it baffles me. When I first started geocaching our units did not have electronic compasses. After almost a year we bought new ones that had 3-axis electronic compasses and I can tell you as far as geocaching is concerned there is no comparison. With a cache set as a go-to the compass pointer will always point at the cache regardless if walking very slowly or you're standing still. No walking around in circles like a drunk trying to go fast enough so your " satellite compass " will point at the cache.

Sort of like a standard transmission versus an automatic.....both may get you there but I'll take the automatic ( I can almost see the replies that the standard is " better".)

Take it from a GPS collector that has used probably a dozen GPS in the field finding caches.....DON'T BUY A UNIT WITHOUT AN ELECTRONIC 3-AXIS COMPASS.

[39_Steps]

. . . I've only had to resort to my compass twice since using my GPS. Once in near whiteout conditions when on the top of a mountain when I needed to know which way to go without taking a few steps in the wrong direction!

 

The other was when caching when tree cover had my GPS position very erratic, an electronic compass wouldn't have helped as my GPS didn't even know where it was!

 

So for me, it's pointless spending more cash just to get an electronic compass. . .

The mention of tree cover reminded me that the built in GPS "magnetic/electronic" compass can still be used when a buit in GPS "track log based/electronic" compass cannot get a gps signal fix.

 

I have routinely used (and calibrated) the Delorme PN-40/60 GPS devices' "magnetic/electronic" compass in such a manner indoors with poor and/or deliberately disabled signal without really thinking of the potential in dense forest or other similar location where gps signal interference is present. But then, I don't get out to dense forest situations much these days.

[+dfx]

The build in electronic function uses battery life, and you have to calibrate it or worry that it is not calibrated, and trust that the calibration is accurate, and you cannot sight with it like a regular compass.

All of this is incorrect. The impact on battery life is minimal to non-existent. I tried to measure how many mA the compass uses and couldn't, because the difference was so small. As already explained, with a modern compass you only need to calibrate it once. There's no need to worry about whether it's calibrated or not, because it's immediately obvious when it isn't. And yeah, you can sight with the GPS. It won't be as accurate as with a real compass (i.e. not down to within a degree), but honestly I haven't run into a situation where I needed that.

 

I always configure my GPSrs "compass" screen to show distance and direction to the waypoint/cache. When hiking and come to a fork, or terrain decision, look at the direction and set my compass and sight it, and make decision forward. Stopping and siting the compass takes a few seconds and gives time to consider next move. Plus, when in an unfamiliar area, you are taking out your real compass regularly and noting direction and taking bearings to landmarks.....

Right. The point here is that if your GPS has an integrated compass, you don't need to do all that! Because the GPS already does it all for you. You take a peek at the screen and know where to go. It's the same reason why your GPS is able to load and display maps. Sure, you can achieve the same results by hauling around a paper map everywhere you go, but the GPS has this function so you don't have to.

[+dfx]

Sort of like a standard transmission versus an automatic.....both may get you there but I'll take the automatic ( I can almost see the replies that the standard is " better".)

 

oh oh oh, good thing you said that

 

I won't say that standard is better... It used to be, because it used to give you better gas mileage and it's more durable. But with our newest car, the automatic actually provides (marginally) better gas mileage. Standard still isn't as error prone though... Unless you drive like a pig, the transmission will last for the life time of the car.

 

In any case, I still prefer standard, simply because I don't like how automatic handles (this is especially true for regular, non "sports" automatics). That's got nothing to do with "better" though.

 

Anyway, back to topic...

[+Cardinal Red]

In the early years of geocaching there was no such thing as a magenetic compass in a GPS and gachers were finding caches just fine.

Garmin added a biaxial compass which was a joke because they had to be level to work. Magellan introduce the Triaxial compass that will work better. But for less than $10.00 you can get a real compass.

 

I still on occasion make use of that Garmin "joke" biaxial compass. While I agree it is not optimal, it is functional. I see your finds are confined to a small number of western states. My range is a small number of eastern states, mostly Pennsylvania. Perhaps we have totally different GPS experiences. More than a few of my finds were on steep, vegetation covered slopes. And that vegetation was obscuring lots of rocks and fallen trees. Throw in a frequently bouncing GPS fix to complete the script (we get a lot of that in rocky areas of Pennsylvania). A Pointer Screen (non magnetic) is nearly worthless in such movement restricting terrain, and my INTEGRATED "electronic compass" is worth more to me than your "real compass" would be. That's not theoretical speculation. That's real world experience. When I am on flat clear terrain (like a Vegas street or desert?) I turn the compass off. When I encounter the conditions I described above, I turn it on and calibrate it. It often gets me where I need to be.

 

How many of your finds were made in tough conditions similar to what I described above? If the answer is very few or none, I totally dismiss your opinion about the value of an "electronic compass" and a so called "real compass". If you have found a lot of those hide types with your "real compass", I applaud your tenacity.

people have been navigating in all types of terrian for hundreds of years using magnetic compasses. To say a magnetic compass us usless in tough contiditions is a rather silly statement. Like I have said, I think of only two caches in which I used a magmetic compass. Once again in the early years of geocaching there was not such thing as a GPS with a built in compass. Geocachers were finding caches for many years all over the U.S. with GPS units that did not have magnetic compass.

 

I'm glad you included my entire post in your reply. I know reading and comprehending every word in a long post can be tricky. Let me break it down into digestible snippets. You replied: To say a magnetic compass us usless in tough contiditions is a rather silly statement.

 

What I actually wrote: A Pointer Screen (non magnetic) is nearly worthless in such movement restricting terrain ... Please point out where I said the silly part.

 

You also did not address the specific point I made of the types of terrain you routinely encounter. A scuba diver wouldn't like the compass types either one of us uses, and if they explained why, I would understand. I have explained why an "electronic compass" works for me. We both have firmly held beliefs on this subject. We are just going to have to agree that we have the right to disagree.

[+Team Hildy]

Scorpio, the Magellan 310 does not have an electronic compass, but it does have something almost as good. Like most other entry level units it has the "simulated compass" that calculates your direction of travel but gets confused when you stop. However, the "simulated compass" screen on the Explorist also displays the positions of the sun and moon based on your location and the time of day. You just turn the gps unit in your hand so that the sun and/or moon symbol is pointing toward the real sun and/or moon, and then the "finder arrow" will be pointed in the direction of your cache. After a short time, I found myself not even bothering to turn the unit in my hand. I'd just glance at it and see that the pointer arrow was, say, a little to the left of the sun, and I'd take off walking just a little bit to the left of straight toward the sun.

 

Even in heavy cover you should be able to tell where the sun or moon are. Same on a rock scramble.

 

Given a choice, with all other things being equal, I'm sure I would pick the electronic compass. However, all other things aren't equal. It seems companies reserve the 3 axis compass for only their higher end units, so the compass could end up costing you hundreds of extra dollars (though you'd likely get other nifty features included as well).

 

I liked the analogy of the heated mirrors. They're nice, and I'd rather have them than not have them. If I'd had them in the past, I'm sure I would miss them on a new car that lacked them. However, I would NOT consider the lack of heated mirrors to be a deal breaker when advising someone on the purchase of his first car.

 

BTW, I'm not sure if the Garmin units that lack the electronic compass have those handy sun and moon symbols to help you orient the GPS pointer. I've never used a Garmin.

[John E Cache]

Norrington: No additional shot nor powder, a compass that doesn't point north,

[looks at Jack's sword]

 

Norrington: And I half expected it to be made of wood. You are without doubt the worst pirate I've ever heard of.

 

Jack Sparrow: But you have heard of me.

The engineers put a magnetic sensor in in a GPS so the GPS softare knows which way you are facing . A marketeer says lets call the feature an "Electronic Compass" so people will think they can save money by not having to buy a "Magnetic Compass". Now the problem is that customers miss the brilliance of the engineer's idea(over stated because yes, I am an engineer ] and they compare a crude magnetic compass to a GPS with a magnetic sensor.

 

I question the that a geogacher needs to know where North is at all and do not need a magnetic compass even without an "Electronic Compass". In the odd clue that says walk at a bearing, you can project the point. "Go North 50' and East 50'" you just switch coordinate type to an X-Y or Northing/Easting like UTM.

 

Also, there is no need to know which way or how fast you are traveling with a magnetic sensor in your GPS.

 

The frustrating thing for me is that just like Commodore Norrington, some people do not know that they have a magical instrument that always points to the treasure no matter which way you point the instrument. IMHO It is not just convenience, it is magic.