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Night Cache "Type" Sorta....


texasgrillchef
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Night caches are a fun great way to cache at night. There are some fantastic night caches out there to find, and I enjoy creating night caches as well.

 

Locally at least here in the Great State of Texas. There is somewhat a debate going on regarding Night caches. Should they be "Multi's"? or "Mysteries"? Or "Traditionals"? Can Virtuals, Earthcaches & be night caches as well?

 

Definition of a night cache: A cache which has been specifically designed to be found at night, that uses some form of clues that make use of flashlights, &/or UV lights, or some other night time specific way of finding that cache in the dark. WHich is totally different than a cache which CAN be found at night, but wasn't specifically designed to be a night time cache.

 

Some have suggested a true "Night Cache" type. The problem with that is. We here at least locally in Texas have agreed that Event caches CAN be Night caches, when the event is held at night. So can the rest of the cache types. Although some say that Traditionals can't really truly be a night cache.

 

Mysuggestion is this though.....

 

Premium caches are in a way a type. However, there are Premium Traditionals, Premium Multi's, & Premium Mysteries.

 

So why don't we create a "NIGHT Cache" type similar to the "Premium" type. Just as we can specify our Trad/Multi/Mystery cache as being a "Premium" cache or not. We can also choose to mark our Trad/Multi/Mystery cache as being a night cache as well. DIFFERENT than using the NIGHT cache attribute. Which some cachers fail to use, or use on caches that aren't really night caches either.

 

As far as the icons go. We could use a little transparent gray "N" as an overlay to the existing cache type icons when they are night caches.

 

TGC

 

ooops sorry... I meant to put [suggestion] in the title. Sorry.

Edited by texasgrillchef
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I can't see a "nightcache traditional" working, since the traditional means the cache is at the posted coordinates. I'm not sure how you could hide it in such a way to make sure it couldn't be found by day.

 

Caches that involve reflective tacks or similar require the seeker to go to the posted coordinates and then travel from there. As such they aren't traditionals but it seems they could be described as either a multi or an unknown.

 

It's hard to see how an earthcache could be a night cache unless there was some aspect of it that was only visible at night. Short of making the cache such that it could only be claimed on a clear night in order to observe some aspect of the moonlight it's hard to see how that would work.

 

I'm not sure I'd want another collection of cache types. The combination of "not available 24/7" and "recommended at night" would seem to work. Throw in "flashlight required" and it's clear that a cache is a night cache.

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I can't see a "nightcache traditional" working, since the traditional means the cache is at the posted coordinates. I'm not sure how you could hide it in such a way to make sure it couldn't be found by day.

 

Caches that involve reflective tacks or similar require the seeker to go to the posted coordinates and then travel from there. As such they aren't traditionals but it seems they could be described as either a multi or an unknown.

 

It's hard to see how an earthcache could be a night cache unless there was some aspect of it that was only visible at night. Short of making the cache such that it could only be claimed on a clear night in order to observe some aspect of the moonlight it's hard to see how that would work.

 

I'm not sure I'd want another collection of cache types. The combination of "not available 24/7" and "recommended at night" would seem to work. Throw in "flashlight required" and it's clear that a cache is a night cache.

Or how about even the "night cache" attribute? nightcache-yes.gif

 

As far as which cache type to use for a night cache, it must be listed as either a Multi or Mystery/Puzzle/Unknown (or possibly a Letterbox-hybrid if it contains the required stamp), because the container is not at the posted coordinates. Traditional requires the container to be at the posted coordinates, so they can't be listed as a Traditional. I can't for the life of me figure out how an Event could be a night cache? It's an Event held at night, not a "night cache".

 

In my opinion, just use the attribute and/or read the description/title to determine if a cache is a night cache.

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even with my limited existence in the caching community i wouldn't ever mistake a "traditional night cache" for a "traditional cache" because that just doesn't make sense for reasons already stated. ... but then again ... you don't have to use the word "traditional" at all for a "night cache". i tend to believe that a "real" night cache is one that someone wouldn't be able to find during the daylight.

 

however this topic does bring up another thought of mine about mystery caches in general ... any ("legal") cache could qualify as a mystery cache as far as i can tell, in fact i just did one yesterday that would've fit better as a "mystery" cache, just because of the context. i personally feel that while the "mystery cache" category is described as a "catch all", you should be able to figure out what it is by the attributes and category... and thus be properly prepared for the hunt before you leave the house. this is just courtesy. under the current "mystery" category, the entire cache is based on only the description, with the attributes being only added clues.

 

for instance, with either a multi or a night cache, all you might need in a description is "start here". or for a puzzle cache you may need a bit more, like a password, a formula or additional coordinates... these are like 5 different things in themselves, but they all get jammed into one category.

 

maybe that's part of the charm of the "mystery" category ... or maybe it's a real paradox that just doesn't have any easy answer ... either way, i think that while it would be nice to be able to search for a specific kind of mystery cache, refining the original system may change the sport into something different than what it was meant to be.

 

ok ... so after all that, i think i just wasted my breath.

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it would come up in a search as a night only .. so you wouldn't waste your time trying to find it in the daylight, or could eliminate it from a search for other types.

 

matter of fact ... there's somewhat of a "commercial" (i say this because it has some exact wording in it that i was warned about on a cache i was placing) cache in the neighborhood here that is a puzzle listed as a "traditional" ... so there's 3 conflicts right there.

Edited by kantear
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it would come up in a search as a night only .. so you wouldn't waste your time trying to find it in the daylight, or could eliminate it from a search for other types.
You can already use pocket queries to search for caches with (or without) the Night Cache attribute. Edited by niraD
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I can't see a "nightcache traditional" working, since the traditional means the cache is at the posted coordinates. I'm not sure how you could hide it in such a way to make sure it couldn't be found by day.

 

I fully agree with you here. As well as most of the cachers I know that are creating night caches in Texas. Minus a few exceptions.

 

Caches that involve reflective tacks or similar require the seeker to go to the posted coordinates and then travel from there. As such they aren't traditionals but it seems they could be described as either a multi or an unknown.

 

Here is what I have done... I have night caches that are multi's and some that are mysteries. My multis with the refelctors will take you on a path & having you travel at least 250' or more away from your starting coordinates.

My mystery night caches, you go to the coordinates, your starting location. There you will look around for various different colour reflective dots, or items that ONLY show up when using a UV/black light. You basically don't do any traveling, as the cache is within 100' or less of your starting coordinates. You just need to use your flashlight or UV/Black flashlight.

 

It's hard to see how an earthcache could be a night cache unless there was some aspect of it that was only visible at night. Short of making the cache such that it could only be claimed on a clear night in order to observe some aspect of the moonlight it's hard to see how that would work.

 

I could see an earthcache being a night cache under certain circumstances. Noone has created it yet, but here in Texas there is a spot alot of people love to go see. They are called the BAT caves. You go at NIGHT, or pretty close to night fall, and you can watch literly thousands upon thousands of bats leaving for the night to feed. It has been in National Geographic magazine as well as on a few of the Nat Geo shows. Been on the discovery channel etc.. One could create a earthcache in regards to these bat caves & the bats, This one would be a night cache.

 

Another spot on the earth, has naturally glowing rocks. These rocks can only be noticed at night, & only when you have a good UV flashlight with you. The UV light from a flashlight is overpowered by the sun during the day. This place deffinately could be a night cache.

 

In general though I do agree... Earth caches that are night caches too would be rare.

 

I'm not sure I'd want another collection of cache types. The combination of "not available 24/7" and "recommended at night" would seem to work. Throw in "flashlight required" and it's clear that a cache is a night cache.

 

Not always.... There are two attributes currently available. "Night Cache" and recomended at night. Just cause a cache is recomended at night doesn't mean it is a night cache. Same goes with a flashlight. I say that because I have a cache thats alot more fun at night, easier to do at night because of less muggles. However it still needs a flashlight during the day so you can see where the cache is hidden. Yet this cache doesn't have anything that really makes it a night cache.

 

Attributes are nice... but the problem is you have CO's that abuse attributes by either not using them, or incorrectly using them. Either on purpose to intentionally mislead you, or accidently use one.

 

Im NOT requesting/suggesting a new cache typer per se' as in additional to Trad/multi/mustery/virtual/earthcache/letterbox etc... But more a cache "Type" like premiums. In that your using the current cache type but it's a premium. Or in this cache it's a night cache. Premiums are limited to Trad/multi & mystery. I haven't ever seen a premium earthcache or letterbox yet. The Night cache could be limited to Mystery/Multi/Event/Letterbox & Earthcache (even though it would be rare)

 

TGC

Edited by texasgrillchef
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As far as which cache type to use for a night cache, it must be listed as either a Multi or Mystery/Puzzle/Unknown (or possibly a Letterbox-hybrid if it contains the required stamp), because the container is not at the posted coordinates. Traditional requires the container to be at the posted coordinates, so they can't be listed as a Traditional. I can't for the life of me figure out how an Event could be a night cache? It's an Event held at night, not a "night cache".

 

In my opinion, just use the attribute and/or read the description/title to determine if a cache is a night cache.

 

In terms of numbers Events are counted like caches. They count in your total number, fill in calender squares etc...

So there are some of us who believe an event cache held at night is in fact a night cache. Because you do have to find it at night. You go to the event cache at night. It isn't something you can do in the day. Which is the basic idea behind a night cache. While yes, alot of night caches can be found in the day. The general idea behind a night cache is that it's suppose to be found at night. Same applies to a event cache held at night. Suppose to be "Found" attended at night. Thus a night cache.

 

In regards to attributes... like I have always said. Attributes are nice... Problems with attributes are this. CO's abuse them. Either by NOT using them, or in some cases CO's who INTENTIONALY use attributes inapropriately. If we were in perfect world, where every CO used them, & there werent' CO's who abused the purpose of attributes. Then maybe that would be ok. But they don't and it isn't. The other problem with attributes. You can't view a caches attributes on a map, and easily tell when the map has 1000+ caches showing which caches are night caches & which caches aren't. You CAN however view a 1000 caches on a map & easily tell if its a Premium or not, or Trad, multi, Mystery etc....

 

TGC

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How would this "sorta" cache type differ from the current attribute?

 

1. It would be viewable on maps. Just like premiums are. Except with the night cache. Maybe it would have a "N" overlay over the existing icon of Trad/Multi/Event/Mytery etc...

 

2. Unlike attributes which aren't always used, & even sometimes abused. The Night cache "type" just like the premium to some degree wouldn't be abused to the same level as attributes are. CO's who create Night Caches are usually proud of them & want everyone to know they are night caches. So they would use it. I have talked with several cachers here in Texas who have created Night caches & they were NOT even aware there even WAS a Night cache attribute till I told them about it. Having this as type, would also prevent to a certain degree (nothing is ever 100%) misuse of night caches. If a CO tried to call his cache a night cache & the reviewer who is reviewing it notices that it ISN'T a night cache prior to publishing. Then the reviewer wouldn't publish the cache unless the CO removed the night cache type option. Like I said nothign is 100% and I am sure there would be some cachers who could get a non-night cache through the system as marked as a night cache when it really wasn't.

 

But those are why...

 

TGC

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I can't see a "nightcache traditional" working, since the traditional means the cache is at the posted coordinates. I'm not sure how you could hide it in such a way to make sure it couldn't be found by day.
I haven't seen any night traditional caches, but I've read discussions about possible designs. One approach is to make it a needle-in-a-haystack hide, with something that makes the cache much easier to find at night. Another approach is to use a timer, so the cache can only be accessed/opened at night (or at certain hours of the night). A related approach is to use a solar-powered mechanism to make the cache inaccessible, but in a way that it becomes accessible again once the solar cells are no longer providing power.
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I can't see a "nightcache traditional" working, since the traditional means the cache is at the posted coordinates. I'm not sure how you could hide it in such a way to make sure it couldn't be found by day.
I haven't seen any night traditional caches, but I've read discussions about possible designs. One approach is to make it a needle-in-a-haystack hide, with something that makes the cache much easier to find at night. Another approach is to use a timer, so the cache can only be accessed/opened at night (or at certain hours of the night). A related approach is to use a solar-powered mechanism to make the cache inaccessible, but in a way that it becomes accessible again once the solar cells are no longer providing power.

 

All good idea, & in fact I have been working on several of those ideas for future night caches that I am going to place.

 

But from my viewpoint... Those caches would then become puzzle caches with the attribute of "Field Puzzle" because the puzzle is in the field. It just so happens that the solution to the puzzle, is to come back at night to obtain the log to sign.

 

I had thought of the Solar Powered idea, the problem with that, a cacher could easily cover the solar cells, making it believe it was at night & thus defeat the idea. Unless of course you put the solar cells somewhere that makes it almost impossible for a cacher to either find &/or cover.

 

I do currently have a cache out this is a needle in the haystack kind of hide. Sort of.... In a location I placed 50+ 100% identical containers. All within easy view. However, each container isn't easy to "Grab", see yes, Grab no.

To reduce ones effort in having to retrieve 50+ containers, one simply uses a UV flashlight (black light) and shines on the containers. The appropriate containers you need will glow. The rest of them do not. Using the UV light during the day time doesn't work so well unless you have a very very strong powerfull UV light. This cache though, I have marked as a puzzle cache. Even though all 50+ containers are all within 20' of the centeral posted coordinates. The containers can be found during the day. Retrieving the log to sign from the correct container during the day would be a strenuous task. (Although some did find it that way! LOL).

 

TGC

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But from my viewpoint... Those caches would then become puzzle caches with the attribute of "Field Puzzle" because the puzzle is in the field. It just so happens that the solution to the puzzle, is to come back at night to obtain the log to sign.
While there's nothing wrong with listing caches like that as mystery/puzzle caches (since that's the "catch-all" type), I don't think they're necessarily mystery/puzzle caches. Lots of traditional caches are accessible only during certain hours. Does it matter whether they are inaccessible because of a locked gate or because of a time-sensitive or light-sensitive mechanism that blocks access during the day? Lots of traditional caches are easier to find during certain hours. Does it matter whether they are easier to find because daylight helps or hinders spotting the cache?
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I can't see a "nightcache traditional" working, since the traditional means the cache is at the posted coordinates. I'm not sure how you could hide it in such a way to make sure it couldn't be found by day.

 

Caches that involve reflective tacks or similar require the seeker to go to the posted coordinates and then travel from there. As such they aren't traditionals but it seems they could be described as either a multi or an unknown.

 

It's hard to see how an earthcache could be a night cache unless there was some aspect of it that was only visible at night. Short of making the cache such that it could only be claimed on a clear night in order to observe some aspect of the moonlight it's hard to see how that would work.

 

I'm not sure I'd want another collection of cache types. The combination of "not available 24/7" and "recommended at night" would seem to work. Throw in "flashlight required" and it's clear that a cache is a night cache.

Or how about even the "night cache" attribute? nightcache-yes.gif

 

As far as which cache type to use for a night cache, it must be listed as either a Multi or Mystery/Puzzle/Unknown (or possibly a Letterbox-hybrid if it contains the required stamp), because the container is not at the posted coordinates. Traditional requires the container to be at the posted coordinates, so they can't be listed as a Traditional. I can't for the life of me figure out how an Event could be a night cache? It's an Event held at night, not a "night cache".

 

In my opinion, just use the attribute and/or read the description/title to determine if a cache is a night cache.

 

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that attribute.

 

I suppose in theory you could have a traditional night cache but I have no idea how you'd hide it to prevent people finding during daylight hours, especially if they were willing to conduct a thorough search. I guess you could have a well designed fake rock in a bed of similar rocks where the one you're looking for has a little reflective mark on it or similar?

 

Not sure about the night time event cache. If it's a cache you can only do at night I suppose it's technically a "night cache" but this time of year that means just about every event cache is technically a night cache, in the northern hemisphere at least.

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But from my viewpoint... Those caches would then become puzzle caches with the attribute of "Field Puzzle" because the puzzle is in the field. It just so happens that the solution to the puzzle, is to come back at night to obtain the log to sign.
While there's nothing wrong with listing caches like that as mystery/puzzle caches (since that's the "catch-all" type), I don't think they're necessarily mystery/puzzle caches. Lots of traditional caches are accessible only during certain hours. Does it matter whether they are inaccessible because of a locked gate or because of a time-sensitive or light-sensitive mechanism that blocks access during the day? Lots of traditional caches are easier to find during certain hours. Does it matter whether they are easier to find because daylight helps or hinders spotting the cache?

 

You do make a very good point there. I can't argue that. I personally though have never been of the belief though that traditional caches should be night caches. That they are in some form or another a type of "puzzle". Even if they are at the posted coordinates, it would still be possible to find them during the day, it just might take longer to find.

 

My personal opinion though, is that the only caches that can be "TRUE" night caches, are Mulit's, Mystery/P/U, Earthcaches, Event Caches, Virtual Caches, Letterbox's & Wherigo.

 

I don't know of any Wherigo Night caches, although I see it as possible, Same goes for Letterbox's. Virtuals could be a night cache, I don't know of any Virtual Night Caches, but since NEW virtuals are no longer it's really a moot point. Earthcaches yes, depending on whats involved, it's possible. Event caches most deffinately if the Event is held during the night, it is a cache after all.

 

TGC

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Not sure about the night time event cache. If it's a cache you can only do at night I suppose it's technically a "night cache" but this time of year that means just about every event cache is technically a night cache, in the northern hemisphere at least.

 

Not always... On 11-11-11 this year. I went to a 11-11-11 Flash Mob event at 11:11am. It was during the day, no night cache there.

 

However on 11-11-11 at 11:11pm I held a Flash Mob event as well. That was deffinately a night cache! You should see the video on You Tube. Search for 11-11-11 Flash Mob Event, Geocaching in The Colony, TX

 

True this time of the year, most events held after normal work hours (in the northern hemisphere) would be night time events and thus night caches. But why not? It is at night, you have to find the event at night, An event IS counted like a cache in your total cache finds count. Since you do have to find the event at night, why can't it be called a night cache?

 

Truthfylly, any night cache can be found during the day. It just might take more effort during the day. Also... It might not be as much "Fun" to find it during the day, depending on how the night cache was designed. Finding it during the day may "ruin" some aspect of finding it at night.

 

I have just placed (not published yet) a new night cache.

 

Its a 2 stage, with a dummy. Stage 1, has a wireless remote. The coordinates posted will be for the remote. To find the remote takes a UV Black light. When a UV black light hits the remote, it will flash. THEN... You have to push the button on the remote. This will cause 2 other containers to flash an LED for 5 seconds. One container is the decoy. No log. Just a box with the LED, The other is the container that has the LED, as well as the log. Once you push the button on the remote you have 5 seconds to look for the flashing lights. And give you an idea where to search. Can't find it. Go back and push the button on the remote and give you another 5 seconds. Haveing a cacheing buddy on this would help too!

 

TGC

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