Geocacher being abusive to other cachers

[crshnbn79]

We have a geocacher that's pretty well known who has left a bad taste about geocaching in alot of people's mouths.

 

What can be done about this? He thinks he runs the entire state of kansas and is just trying to make a buck instead of loving the game.

 

In the end he's hurting the game more than he is helping but he has a huge presence in our area.

[jholly]

Well, given the details you have provided, it seems very little can be done or suggested. For the bad taste in the mouth you might try some mouthwash, as for making a buck, do you have to pay? If not, just don't give him money.

[+SwineFlew]

This thread might go downhill, Dont tell me you been warned.

[crshnbn79]

Ok examples: He has deleted logs of people who he doesn't like.

He is verbally abusive to people who don't share his ideas of how geocaches should be placed

If you suggest another site that helps users but would take traffic away from his group website he bans you and tells everyone that you were spamming his site.

[+SwineFlew]

Ok examples: He has deleted logs of people who he doesn't like.

 

Thats against the guideline, just email GS and they will take care of the matter. That simple.

[+Touchstone]

Ok examples: He has deleted logs of people who he doesn't like.

He is verbally abusive to people who don't share his ideas of how geocaches should be placed

If you suggest another site that helps users but would take traffic away from his group website he bans you and tells everyone that you were spamming his site.

 

What you describe would be considered a violation of the Guidelines and the Terms of Use of the site. Only Groundspeak can moderate a situation like this (contact@geocaching.com).

 

If that answers your question, you can always have one of the Moderators close the thread by hitting the "Report" button.

 

Sorry to hear of the difficulties and best of luck.

 

Edit to add:

 

...his group website...

 

If this abuse is occurring on a website he owns/operates, then Groundspeak would probably not be able to help you much. I'd vote with my feet and not return to a site that has that sort of Moderation/Administration.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Touchstone

[jholly]

Ok examples: He has deleted logs of people who he doesn't like.

He is verbally abusive to people who don't share his ideas of how geocaches should be placed

If you suggest another site that helps users but would take traffic away from his group website he bans you and tells everyone that you were spamming his site.

 

Deleting logs - logs were signed and they were not obscene, a personal attack, or direct spoiler for the site, i.e., they were a innocent Found it log then the person that had the log deleted should raise the issue with contact@Groundspeak.com. Note, do not write a reviewer, they are not the log cops. If Groundspeak decides the deletion was not correct then then the log can be re-instated and a warning issued to the cache owner.

 

If he is verbally abusive in person about the only thing that can be done is to turn around and walk away. If he is abusive in email, try to get him to use the Groundspeak.com website mail system. Then you can again raise the issue with contact@Groundspeak.com. There are caches that are placed the I don't necessarily agree on how they are placed.

 

Sounds like being banned from his site is a blessing in disguise. Does this guy really have any friends? Sounds like the more people ignore him the better the situation will become.

[crshnbn79]

Thanks for your help...I am going to have everyone he has offended e-mail support about him...

[+Walts Hunting]

He is the reason the Ignore button exists. Put his there for you and go on about your business without worrying about what everyone else is doing.

 

Emailing support won't do any good unless he used the froggie's email system and then they need to report the specific email not a general statment.

 

Offending people using another email system is outside the control of the froggie.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Walts Hunting

[knowschad]

Boy, am I dying to hear the backstory to this one!

[crshnbn79]

I am just scared because he's heading up the GPS Adventures traveling thing that is coming to our city that represents what geocaching is. What fine introduction that will be when new cachers get him

[+JesandTodd]

Boy, am I dying to hear the backstory to this one!

[jholly]

Boy, am I dying to hear the backstory to this one!

Quite likely we are not at page 4 yet.

[knowschad]

Boy, am I dying to hear the backstory to this one!

 

Yup. I'm munching, too.

[+HHD]

Boy, am I dying to hear the backstory to this one!

+1

[knowschad]

I am just scared because he's heading up the GPS Adventures traveling thing that is coming to our city that represents what geocaching is. What fine introduction that will be when new cachers get him

 

How did this cacher manage to get into the position to head up something so big, if he is so disrespectful of other cachers in your area? Isn't that rather unusual?

[crshnbn79]

Removed due to being to open with my problems... I suggest anyone who is calling people out please remove that information.

Edited December 18, 2011 by crshnbn79

[crshnbn79]

I am just scared because he's heading up the GPS Adventures traveling thing that is coming to our city that represents what geocaching is. What fine introduction that will be when new cachers get him

 

How did this cacher manage to get into the position to head up something so big, if he is so disrespectful of other cachers in your area? Isn't that rather unusual?

 

He's been geocaching since it started...just like me, but I was just starting my life at the time so I wasn't as involved. Guess he took it full throttle and hasn't backed off, and now with geocaching becoming more mainstream and him having the best page rank due to age of the site he made...you now get the cluster we are in now.

[knowschad]

Ok this is my backstory. About 1 year ago I approached members of our 1 and only geocaching group in Wichita, KS with an idea to make it better, for everyone...for FREE!

A few members expressed interest and I had a few ideas and others had a few. Well one of the ideas was that data in the current yahoo groups was valuable, so I thought...hey why not copy it into a user form, after about 8 hours of figuring out the logistics and injecting it into a Mysql database I got it done. Then posted a "ta-da there you go" to everyone...

One day later I got a phone call...from the owner of the group....insta-ban for copying his precious data. I apologized over and over again to him, told him I would take it all down no questions asked...nope still banned...he removed all references to my site, and told everyone that I was a idiot, and mean and didn't know what I was doing. Now mind you I am a webdeveloper for a company who is ranked as high as google as far as best places to work...I think I know what I am doing.

Anyways so a year goes by and I decide to roll the dice to get back in the group...using a different e-mail of course...bam I am back in...told everyone I was sorry for past deeds, but he removed the post, but left me in. So then I find out he's in charge of the GPS adventures coming to Wichita. Well he posts a screen show of the banner he is making which referenced his personal site that looks like something made in notepad. I again offered to help update his site or let them utilize my site with any new info they wanted on it. Banned again...this time he e-mailed me and said I was spamming and that if I would attend his meetings I would know that he already planned to update his site. WTH!?

 

So I start poking around...turns out that 90% of the people in wichita who either geocache or used to quit because they either were harassed by him, either putting out to many geocaches in a series, calling people out saying they don't do enough for the game, oh and he even went so far to put what he called "challenge geocaches" out there which required people to place a geocache 30 days after the cache was logged or their log would be deleted. Beyond that he's always pushing people to buy his stickers, shirts, and coins...like a panhandler on the street corner. Almost every event there is he makes sure he's in charge of, and controls every detail to his liking, not allowing others to help or provide input for fear of him banning you from the group.

 

Hope your popcorn was good!

The popcorn is indeed getting better. Since it probably won't take a rocket surgeon to figure out just who you are referring to, wouldn't the right thing be to notify him of this thread and let him post his own side of the story? I am 110% certain that your explanation is incomplete and one-sided. If you are going to talk about someone else, should you really do it behind their back?

[crshnbn79]

I am not here to name names, nor to throw anyone under the bus. I have already talked to a few others about handling this within our group.

[russnbunny]

Start Ur own group!

[+GeoBain]

I am not here to name names, nor to throw anyone under the bus. I have already talked to a few others about handling this within our group.

 

You called him out when you said he was heading up the GPS Adventure coming to Kansas.

[+GeoBain]

And starting a thread in the international forums is not handling it within the group.

[+SwineFlew]

Where is my popcorn. With light butter on it. I will be here for a while.

[+Chrysalides]

Ok this is my backstory.

You just ruined a bit of your credibility here. I don't see anything about him deleting logs of people he doesn't like, which is the most serious accusation you made earlier.

 

The only log deletion you mentioned is that he deleted logs of people who didn't complete the challenge. Whether that particular challenge should be allowed is a different matter, and should be handled by Groundspeak.

[+The Frosties!]

//Frosty pulls up a chair by the fire, and looks at the bowl of popcorn with a glint in his eye.....Maybe the next visitor will bring more logs for the fire?

[+Fianccetto]

here Frosty, share mine.

 

crshnbn79 you have thrown yourself under the bus here, my friend.

 

Yahoo has had a lot of problems with spam and in the past I've been a moderator for various yahoo groups, some large, some small. having the emails harvested by bots was a regular complaint, especially from new joiners. In each of the groups there was a rule to not send unsolicited mail to other people in the group (rather like this site). So, if anyone had copied people's data and put it all in a file and told people they could contact each other that way, it would have been an insta-ban. Doing that might be forgiveable if you knew very little about the internet and were thinking of it like a village of like-minded people in a small community, but if you have an IT related job and said that gave you more right to do something like that, I too would think you didn't know what you were talking about. People's data is valuable because criminals want to use it, so it's not good to make it any easier for spammers and hackers.

 

So it sounds as though this guy does a lot. It sounds as though you both burnt some bridges and it will take a lot of work and compromising to rebuild them. That's not going to happen by posting about it on here.

[+power69]

Ok examples: He has deleted logs of people who he doesn't like.

He is verbally abusive to people who don't share his ideas of how geocaches should be placed

If you suggest another site that helps users but would take traffic away from his group website he bans you and tells everyone that you were spamming his site.

Are his quality caches or lame lpc, grc carp?

[Mr.Yuck]

I am not here to name names, nor to throw anyone under the bus. I have already talked to a few others about handling this within our group.

 

You called him out when you said he was heading up the GPS Adventure coming to Kansas.

 

Jeremy Irish?

 

 

here Frosty, share mine.

 

crshnbn79 you have thrown yourself under the bus here, my friend.

 

Yahoo has had a lot of problems with spam and in the past I've been a moderator for various yahoo groups, some large, some small. having the emails harvested by bots was a regular complaint, especially from new joiners. In each of the groups there was a rule to not send unsolicited mail to other people in the group (rather like this site). So, if anyone had copied people's data and put it all in a file and told people they could contact each other that way, it would have been an insta-ban. Doing that might be forgiveable if you knew very little about the internet and were thinking of it like a village of like-minded people in a small community, but if you have an IT related job and said that gave you more right to do something like that, I too would think you didn't know what you were talking about. People's data is valuable because criminals want to use it, so it's not good to make it any easier for spammers and hackers.

 

So it sounds as though this guy does a lot. It sounds as though you both burnt some bridges and it will take a lot of work and compromising to rebuild them. That's not going to happen by posting about it on here.

 

This makes sense, and I agree. I don't get the "told people they could contact each other that way" part though.

[+GeoBain]

I am not here to name names, nor to throw anyone under the bus. I have already talked to a few others about handling this within our group.

 

You called him out when you said he was heading up the GPS Adventure coming to Kansas.

 

Jeremy Irish?

 

I'm guessing 4America

[Keystone]

I am not here to name names, nor to throw anyone under the bus.

Based on the depth of information you provided, it took me five mouse clicks to find out who you were talking about.

 

This would be a different thread if questions had been asked in the abstract about how to handle disputes between users. The answer, already given, is to write to the contact address.

 

I also need to note that it is Groundspeak who owns and operates the GPS Adventures Maze. The cacher in question is hosting an event. One can attend the maze itself at any time while the exhibit is installed at a particular location. I encourage everyone to visit if the maze is ever within driving distance of them.

[crshnbn79]

Fine sorry I even bothered. I will removed my posts that were talking about anything relating to this.

 

I will not be so open to give anyone details of what happened again and keep it to myself.

 

Yes I would also encourage anyone to goto the GPS Adventures.

Edited December 18, 2011 by crshnbn79

[+Touchstone]

I might also suggest that you look over your website carefully before contacting Groundspeak. There appeared to be a couple of items directly lifted from the GC site,and I didn't see, or possibly missed, any attribution of permission. Things of that sort might bolster the claims of this "troublesome" individual.

 

Good luck !

[crshnbn79]

In reply to everyone who has responded. I didn't mean to put information out there where people could guess at who this is. If you post someone's name I would appreciate it be removed as this is not how we should act.

 

Secondly I only posted my experience as I did list some issues other geocachers in my area had with this individual.

 

Third this person does a great job and does have alot to offer the community in our area. I just wish he would work better with others who are trying to help.

I believe, remember this is my opinion, he thinks that he owns the rights to tell everyone how to do everything and is overprotective of his "geocaching" in general.

 

Sorry if I offended anyone here. I really just wanted to see what can be done when dealing with individuals in our hobby choice who have become a problem.

I would rather talk to him and try to find a way to make everything work, but information from other very active cachers in our area leads me to believe this may not happen.

Especially since as most who have crossed his path have come away with a lack of desire to deal with this person.

 

I wish I had time to build up a community but I am a father of 4 kids under the age of 6 and I am going back to college, after 10 years away, fulltime w/ a fulltime job.

[+Chrysalides]

It is sometimes hard to resolve things over email or forum posts. If you really want to work with him, a face to face meeting would be the time to talk about it, especially since it seems like there's a lot of past history between the two of you. With some personalities, that may not be possible. If that's the case, just move along. Like you pointed out, it's not like you have nothing else to do anyway. Good luck.

[+Fianccetto]

I would say dealing with someone you have a problem with is the same whoever they are. Sure, if they really are bullying people it should be reported and stopped, and another group of cachers should try to run events and web groups to welcome people properly. But, he is doing so much and it sounds as though there are people who will work with him and who go to his events. As he has invested a lot of his time in promoting geocaching, it would be a shame to make a mistake and hurt such a person (or their reputation) if you could find a way to smooth things over. Assume that 90% of the problem is your misunderstandings, lack of knowledge about situations, or negative attitude (whether it is or not). It might be that it's his 10% you want to change but all you can do is change yourself and see if it has an influence. (It probably will, lets hope it does). it is the same for anyone you don't get on with. You have no control over what they do or say, so don't fret over it. Aim to spend more time in their company just having fun at events and less time listening to what anyone else has to say about them. Try to change your attitude to them and pay them a simple compliment when you see them for something that's done well & thank them for what they do. Minimise communicating by email/on the net to avoid misunderstandings which tend to make the problem worse still. If anyone asks your opinion about them, say one good thing about them and leave it at that. Don't think about the bad things they do, or don't do. If you want to offer help, leave it until things have improved and you want to spend some time with him. Then, setting the boundaries of what you can offer in such terms as time, location and frequency and ask him what help he would like and if there is anything you can do (and how he would like it to be done).

 

This is not meant to be any criticism of you, and maybe there is a lot else that's happened that you can't say on here, but I felt this needed to be said. These are things I need to remind myself to do a lot or it can become easy to not appreciate or even criticise people who do a lot for us for no reward. Even if it is appropriate to report the person you are talking about, it is not always the most helpful thing to do in every case. I do hope the situation improves.

[+wandering4cache]

I am so glad that New England geocachers don't form groups. There might be one or two out there, but they are small. Mainly, we just prefer not to play that way here. We have tons of friends. We do lots of dinner events. We have some groups on Facebook if you want to ask a question or form a get together about a great cache. But we don't take it all so seriously. No group membership fees. No selling of stuff. Just plain old fun. Sure there must be some personality clashes between some people here & there, but just go play the game & stay away from the other people who can't get along.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

I am so glad that New England geocachers don't form groups. There might be one or two out there, but they are small. Mainly, we just prefer not to play that way here. We have tons of friends. We do lots of dinner events. We have some groups on Facebook if you want to ask a question or form a get together about a great cache. But we don't take it all so seriously. No group membership fees. No selling of stuff. Just plain old fun. Sure there must be some personality clashes between some people here & there, but just go play the game & stay away from the other people who can't get along.

 

+1.

[jshepherd1102]

Our Geocaching community here in Pike County Kentucky seems to get along pretty well. They usually have organized events where everybody gets together and has a good time. I guess a bad apple can spoil things for everyone else though. I guess we're lucky though, because it'd be difficult to moderate the cache locations in our area, because a lot of them are out in the scenic areas.

 

 

----------------

 

Pike County Tourism CVB : Geocaching

Edited December 19, 2011 by jshepherd1102

[+SwineFlew]

In reply to everyone who has responded. I didn't mean to put information out there where people could guess at who this is. If you post someone's name I would appreciate it be removed as this is not how we should act.

Secondly I only posted my experience as I did list some issues other geocachers in my area had with this individual.

 

Third this person does a great job and does have alot to offer the community in our area. I just wish he would work better with others who are trying to help.

I believe, remember this is my opinion, he thinks that he owns the rights to tell everyone how to do everything and is overprotective of his "geocaching" in general.

 

Sorry if I offended anyone here. I really just wanted to see what can be done when dealing with individuals in our hobby choice who have become a problem.

I would rather talk to him and try to find a way to make everything work, but information from other very active cachers in our area leads me to believe this may not happen.

Especially since as most who have crossed his path have come away with a lack of desire to deal with this person.

 

I wish I had time to build up a community but I am a father of 4 kids under the age of 6 and I am going back to college, after 10 years away, fulltime w/ a fulltime job.

 

Thats why I said it will go down hill. I knew what will happen...someone is going to figure it out of who you are talking about. Just the nature of forums. If you got nothing nice to say about someone, dont talk about it on the forum, even without names because someone is going to rooted it out.

[+HHD]

Leave it to the pig to "root" out that truffle of information.