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0 Finds placing caches


jellis

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The NM, NA process can take years before it is finally archived by the reviewer.

 

We are lucky here in Arizona in that this process rarely takes more than three months.

Of course that does little to remedy the low-quality containers full of soggy paper that get left behind. :(

 

NOW... all we need to do is agree on the difference between a good cache and a bad cache?

 

I can tolerate nearly any cache with a dry log having space for me to sign and I didn't have to dodge the property owner to make the find.

 

Naturally, there is a whole lot of room for improvement beyond those minimums. ;)

 

But surely that is where the geocaching community starts to see problems eg where we start to 'TOLERATE' the layby cache, the guardrail cache, the roadside hedge cache just because it has a dry log. Maybe we should be a little more vociferous about pointing out some failings to educate future finders who will subsequently become future placers.

 

We will continue to see poor hides if finders do not record their true experiences when finding a cache.

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I'm still proud of my first geocache hide which I made 6 days after my first find.

I placed my first cache after one find. It's still out there over 10 years later and I can't think of anything I'd change about it.

I placed my first cache, within hours after learning about geocaching and the website. Stll there, too. I didn't find a cache until the next day.

 

If you had to wait 2 months to list your cache would you have waited?

Probably, I can't say. I think I would have still tried to find geocaches and stayed in the game after two months, but I was more interested in the hider dynamics, initially, and that's what drew me to the website.

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I waited over a year to place my first cache. Not that everyone should but I wanted to put it somewhere that held some meaning to me and kind of figure out the local customs with placing caches before I went out and did it

 

LIKEY LIKEY!!

 

At first I was like to each their own, now I'm more of the just because you can doesn't mean you should opinion.

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I waited over a year to place my first cache. Not that everyone should but I wanted to put it somewhere that held some meaning to me and kind of figure out the local customs with placing caches before I went out and did it

 

LIKEY LIKEY!!

 

At first I was like to each their own, now I'm more of the just because you can doesn't mean you should opinion.

 

I rather contribute something of some worth to the community than to throw out something just to have something there.

 

I've been planning another cache since I started and I haven't placed it yet because i want to do it right and not just do it to do it. And last summer I started planning another cache. Just need to find the right spot for it.

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I don't see an issue with the number of finds a person has before they place their first cache. As mentioned, there could be any number of reasons a member shows no finds and then places a cache. Personally, I'm not much in to the numbers game. I cache for the enjoyment of being out and sometimes seeing areas I haven't seen before. I also enjoy the search and the find.

 

If I try one or two of these "0 finds" placements and they turn out to be lame, I'll probably just ignore any future caches by this person.

 

There is no reason to make this hobby, or game, or whatever you wish to call it any more complicated than it has to be. It's supposed to provide you with some entertainment and if it doesn't, then don't do it.

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I created my account here several years ago when I had first heard about it but never actually went out and found a cache. At the time, GPS equipment was prohibitively expensive and my phone didn't have one. I desperately wanted a GPS and managed to cobble a solution together using an old PDA, a compact flash GPS receiver, an external magnetic antenna, and a copy of TomTom - all for around $100 (used). This was about 5 or 6 years ago.

 

I actually reacquainted myself with GeoCaching a few weeks ago after doing some research on the internet about interesting historical sites in CT. One of the sites is a protected spot that the town does not want to publish the location to for fear that it will be defaced, etc. I was so curious that after digging around on the 'net for a while, I found that someone had placed a geocache at the site. The cache was premium-only and hence my premium membership was born...

 

I still haven't found that particular cache - haven't even looked for it.

 

Long story short - I revisited geocaching after never really having started after 5 years. I got my paid membership and I downloaded the app. I quickly set out with a "find nearby caches" attitude and settled on the TTMTD series. "Time To Make The Donuts" which, as you can imagine is a series of film canisters hidden near Dunkin Donuts shops across CT. My first find was with one of my kids one day. My car's GPS brought us within 50' or so and we hopped out and began searching with the iPhone app. Within about 5-10 minutes we found the cache hanging in a tree.

 

Despite the fact that our first cache was a - now I have learned, dreaded - film canister, roadside, park and grab, we were both extremely excited. My daughter was curious about it and I told her everything I knew. A few days later, while shopping somewhere else, I found another TTMTD cache with a couple of my other kids (I have a lot of kids). These guys were out there with headlamps, scrabbling over stone walls, searching nooks and crannies for a FILM CANISTER. The horror!

 

I know I am getting into this late - like 10 or 11 years late. But I have to say, if it weren't for these two film canister, park and grab, stealth required, coffee shop parking lot geocaches, I might not have ever gotten back into it. Sure, I may have eventually trekked through the woods to find that old historic site and maybe THAT would have started the fever, but who knows, and who knows WHEN I would have been able to do that.

 

What does this have to do with "0 finds" placing caches? After finding a handful of caches - all micros and nanos that were easily accessible, I wanted to place one of my own. My kids are DYING to place them. I have now at LEAST 4 new geocachers ready to go as soon as I say the word. I went out last weekend, after reading up on how to average coordinates, and the pitfalls of using an iPhone to place caches, etc. and decided to go for it anyway. I placed my cache. I used my phone to get some coordinates, I used the GPS in the car as I was able to literally park next to my hiding spot, and I used Google Earth to all ensure that my original coordinates were good. I listed it and it was approved within 48 hours. FTF was 5:00am the next day by someone who had found thousands of caches before. An hour later, another person had found it. My enthusiasm for this game has just tripled. I am getting my kids geocache starter kits for Christmas.

 

I actually reached out to the two people who had found the cache and asked them politely if the coordinates were OK as this was my first hide. They both came back and said they were spot on or within 10'.

 

So - I've written a book here...

 

If it weren't for the so-called lame park and grab film canister caches that are all over the world, this 9-find cacher wouldn't have been able to place his first cache. I think I did OK for myself.

 

People should stop being hung up on the numbers. The caches are only as good as the cachers. I'm guessing that a lot of the folks out there who are complaining about this phenomenon are people who have been doing it for a long time and who may have forgotten how exciting it is to find your first cache. If we do our research, read the logs, etc. then we can make our own decisions about what caches to go for or not. Caches dropped by fly-by-nighters that are unmaintained will weed themselves out eventually. Perhaps a better idea than to restrict people from hiding caches until X finds or Y days/months/years would be to have a window of time in which a cache owner must respond to a NM or NA log entry. If that window is exceeded then the reviewer could be notified and the cache archived administratively. This way, people who actually care, despite the number of caches they have or the length of time they have been in the game, can respond and take care of the problem. People who don't care, drop crappy caches, are out of the game, etc. will never miss their archived caches and the problem would resolve itself.

 

And once I go after a "real" cache, hidden deep in the woods, with a giant container full of goodies to trade, I'm sure my enthusiasm will triple again! And don't fear, I will not let my kids place any caches without complete supervision - I want them to do it right. I want them to feel the excitement of knowing that someone found THEIR cache. I want to keep it fun for them so that those who choose to stick with it are able to cache responsibly and have a great time. I hope Santa brings me a GPSr for Christmas...if he doesn't I'm going to have to go buy one myself. I already know the limitations of my phone - and the stigma attached to using it thanks to these forums. I WANT to do it right. That's the difference. 0 finds. 10,000 finds. Whatever.

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I do see a distinct difference between one find and zero finds.

 

I'm been preaching this for some time: yes, there should be a minimum number of finds to hide, but the minimum number should be one. Someone who has found even one cache is a lot more likely to have figured out what a geocache is. (And per examples given in this thread, there should be a way to appeal to the reviewer for a zero-find hide, in cases such as experienced cachers hiding under/behind a group account. If someone knows the process well enough to appeal to the reviewer, let them hide.)

 

One find, to me, would indicate a newbie. Zero finds makes me suspect some alterior motive

 

I don't know that it needs to be ascribed to ulterior motives. It's just that someone who hasn't found a cache sometimes doesn't understand what a cache is. They have an idea for hiding something and they bend their understand of a geocache to their preconceived notion instead of the other way around. I've seen a three-part cache listed as a multi by a no-find hider. (On NPS land, but a one-find rule would not stop that.) Coordinates in the middle of a beach or in thick chaparral -- a one-find rule would not eliminate that but would cut way down on the ones I've seen. Hiders who never check back with gc.com and apparently gave spurious or one-time-use email addresses -- far more common with zero-find hiders than with single-digit-find hiders.

 

It's not perfect but it would cut down on a certain type of problem. I agree that there's no good reason to believe that a minimum larger than one would help on the average.

 

Edward

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But surely that is where the geocaching community starts to see problems eg where we start to 'TOLERATE' the layby cache, the guardrail cache, the roadside hedge cache just because it has a dry log. Maybe we should be a little more vociferous about pointing out some failings to educate future finders who will subsequently become future placers.

 

We will continue to see poor hides if finders do not record their true experiences when finding a cache.

 

Aye, but there is a difference between 'toleration' and 'enjoyment'.

 

When I would really like to say, 'Why did you place this pointless piece of excrement?', I will merely post 'Found, log signed. Thanks for the :) !'...since indeed a smilie is all it means to me.

 

One must at least respect the effort to stuff a scrap of paper in a film canister and record reasonably accurate co-ordinates for it.

 

EDIT: To fix the difference between a log smiley emoticon and a forum smilie emoticon.

Edited by AZcachemeister
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