+m3hxe Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Hi all, Im lookin at placeing a new cache next year.I would be a multi cache where at one or more of the locations the finder would have to use a mobile phone to ring a voice mail.The co-ordinates would be given in the recorded message in the voice mail. It this allowed? Cheers! Quote Link to comment
+thehoomer Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Hi all, Im lookin at placeing a new cache next year.I would be a multi cache where at one or more of the locations the finder would have to use a mobile phone to ring a voice mail.The co-ordinates would be given in the recorded message in the voice mail. It this allowed? Cheers! I seem to recall that this kind of thing has been used before. As to whether it is allowed, I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment
+MartyBartfast Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Don't know whether it would be allowed but I probably wouldn't want to do it, after all how can I be sure the number you're using isn't a premium rate line charging be £££££ a minute? (BTW I'm not suggesting that's your intention but there's no way of knowing when I'm making the call whether the number is legit or not.) Quote Link to comment
patdhill Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Hi all, Im lookin at placeing a new cache next year.I would be a multi cache where at one or more of the locations the finder would have to use a mobile phone to ring a voice mail.The co-ordinates would be given in the recorded message in the voice mail. It this allowed? Cheers! I've seen it done on a puzzle cache before. As long as it's not a premium rate number you are using to make money you should be ok. Spending money to make a phone call is no different to spending money on fuel to find a cache, I'd keep the message relatively short though. Quote Link to comment
+Croesgadwr Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) I'm totally in favour of new caching ideas, but personally I wouldn't bother searching for a cache of the type you've got in mind. Then again, who am I to suggest that you shouldn't place it? Croesgadwr Edited December 13, 2011 by Croesgadwr Quote Link to comment
+Unobtainium Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The concern I would have is that you would be able to compile a directory of mobile phone numbers of the finders. Quote Link to comment
+Happy Humphrey Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I've seen a similar idea on a couple of caches I've found. On one of them the phone is actually provided. So I guess that it's allowed. Quote Link to comment
+Unobtainium Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Terms of use 4(k): You agree not to: ......... (k) Collect or store personal data about other Site users. http://tinyurl.com/2624mo Quote Link to comment
patdhill Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The concern I would have is that you would be able to compile a directory of mobile phone numbers of the finders. You could easily set your phone to withhold your number so it's number couldn't be seen by the person at the other end. Quote Link to comment
patdhill Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The concern I would have is that you would be able to compile a directory of mobile phone numbers of the finders. You could easily set your phone to withhold your number so it's number couldn't be seen by the person at the other end. Actually this is a great idea, might set one up myself then I'd never be short of phone numbers in case I needed to PAF. Quote Link to comment
+Unobtainium Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I've seen a similar idea on a couple of caches I've found. On one of them the phone is actually provided. So I guess that it's allowed. I guess that owner was very trusting. Quote Link to comment
+EvilTree Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) A google voice number that is decoded after you solve a puzzle may be a cool thing to do, if some one wants to dial a number thats not in his caching area so be.... it`s on them I like the idea Edited December 13, 2011 by EvilTree Quote Link to comment
+Red Duster Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 This thread has got me thinking as I've not had one of these before, so I've done a bit of digging. Although my initial feeling was no, provided the response is automated (which it would be) it would be allowable. Andy Red Duster Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk Geocaching.com Knowledge Books Quote Link to comment
+Gushoneybun Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I've seen a similar idea on a couple of caches I've found. On one of them the phone is actually provided. So I guess that it's allowed. I guess that owner was very trusting. The cache is still in place and I see it has just had its 7th birthday, not sure if its the same phone though:blink: Quote Link to comment
+mellers Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Well you'd need a particular bit of equipment to find the cache - but I think it's no different to those QR code on-the-hoof puzzle caches, which can't be solved unless you have a specialist item of kit. And you'd incur a cost to find the cache - so I think it's only fair that you say VERY CLEARLY on the cache page that this call will need to be made and that a cost will be incurred. You also need to say on the page how long the message will be to give people the choice whether or not they want to spend the money (on their own tarrif). A bit like they do on the telly - but of course you couldn't possibly estimate the base cost as all tarrifs are different. Quote Link to comment
+pixeltash Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I have done a cache like this GC2RKMD You have to find the waypoints and get numbers to make a phone number, ring the number and then hang up before the answerphone part kicks in, so not costing anything. I didn't know what to expect and was going to give up when I got a text with the final co-ords in. So there must be a way of automating it. Quote Link to comment
+FantasyRaider Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I've seen a similar idea on a couple of caches I've found. On one of them the phone is actually provided. So I guess that it's allowed. I guess that owner was very trusting. I've seen one like that here in Wales too. But it's archived now! (I reckon the CO was sick of having to revisit the cache to recharge the battery) Quote Link to comment
+Stuey Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I've found three or four which use mobile phones which you need to call for questions and/or co-ords. Race the Clock in Bath was probably the best one of those as it used fully automated texting of questions and answers based on geographic locations which you had to get to within a certain time span. Lots of people used it for landmarks, and it is still in my Top 10 caches list. There is at least one of the ones that I found still active, but as it is a mystery, I'll not give the GC code out. I say "Go for it". Quote Link to comment
+Alfiegeorge Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I have done a cache like this GC2RKMD You have to find the waypoints and get numbers to make a phone number, ring the number and then hang up before the answerphone part kicks in, so not costing anything. I didn't know what to expect and was going to give up when I got a text with the final co-ords in. So there must be a way of automating it. ... and presumably any muggle that dials a wrong number onto that mobile line similarly gets a text message shortly followed by the uncomfortable feeling that they are getting involved in a John le Carre novel. Quote Link to comment
team tisri Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I've seen a similar idea on a couple of caches I've found. On one of them the phone is actually provided. So I guess that it's allowed. I guess that owner was very trusting. Not necessarily, you can buy a burner PAYG phone for £7.99 at a well known mobile phone shop. It might take a lot of maintenance visits to make sure the battery stayed charged though. Quote Link to comment
+HouseOfDragons Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Not if you provide one of those "emergency" chargers that takes a normal battery and suggest on the cache page that cachers might like to take one. Quote Link to comment
+pixeltash Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I have done a cache like this GC2RKMD You have to find the waypoints and get numbers to make a phone number, ring the number and then hang up before the answerphone part kicks in, so not costing anything. I didn't know what to expect and was going to give up when I got a text with the final co-ords in. So there must be a way of automating it. ... and presumably any muggle that dials a wrong number onto that mobile line similarly gets a text message shortly followed by the uncomfortable feeling that they are getting involved in a John le Carre novel. ROFL Quote Link to comment
+Happy Humphrey Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Not if you provide one of those "emergency" chargers that takes a normal battery and suggest on the cache page that cachers might like to take one. The technique is to put a charged spare battery in the cache and request that a finder mentions that they had to use it. That gives some time for the cache owner to visit with another charged battery to replace the original. So it's not the cheapest cache in the world, but many caches cost quite a bit to set up. Quote Link to comment
+Shiggaddi Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 This thread has got me thinking as I've not had one of these before, so I've done a bit of digging. Although my initial feeling was no, provided the response is automated (which it would be) it would be allowable. Andy Red Duster Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk Geocaching.com Knowledge Books It's a pity you didn't review my cache which I tried to set with exactly the same idea a couple of months back. I had it reviewed by Lindinus, but he said that requiring cachers to call a phone number, or visit a website to solve a cache puzzle was not allowed. I had put out 4 caches, 2 of which contained half the phone number needed, plus another traditional without any clues on, and the bonus cache (which I had named "phone a friend" but had to revert back to bonus) would be obtained by a voicemail message giving the final co-ords. In the end, I had to create a puzzle out of the 2 sets of digits left, to find the co-ords for the bonus, and although I chose a lovely area for a short walk, working out the bonus doesn't have the same edge as phoning for the bonus. The phone (or rather sim) used for this would only be used for the cache, and wouldn't be in everyday use. Quote Link to comment
+Delta68 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 (edited) It's a pity you didn't review my cache which I tried to set with exactly the same idea a couple of months back. I had it reviewed by Lindinus... There is very little consistency amongst the reviewers. Our local reviewer is refusing to publish a series which is virtually identical to one which allowed by Lindinus just a few months ago. Edited December 24, 2011 by Delta68 Quote Link to comment
+Mad H@ter Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 It's a pity you didn't review my cache which I tried to set with exactly the same idea a couple of months back. I had it reviewed by Lindinus... There is very little constancy amongst the reviewers. Our local reviewer is refusing to publish a series which is virtually identical to one which allowed by Lindinus just a few months ago. This does seem to be a bit of an ongoing problem, but I belive that this is more of an issue with Groundspeak. If the reviewers have difficulty in applying the "Guidelines" consistently, what chance do we have? Quote Link to comment
+Happy Humphrey Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 (edited) This thread has got me thinking as I've not had one of these before, so I've done a bit of digging. Although my initial feeling was no, provided the response is automated (which it would be) it would be allowable. Andy Red Duster Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk Geocaching.com Knowledge Books It's a pity you didn't review my cache which I tried to set with exactly the same idea a couple of months back. I had it reviewed by Lindinus, but he said that requiring cachers to call a phone number, or visit a website to solve a cache puzzle was not allowed. I had put out 4 caches, 2 of which contained half the phone number needed, plus another traditional without any clues on, and the bonus cache (which I had named "phone a friend" but had to revert back to bonus) would be obtained by a voicemail message giving the final co-ords. In the end, I had to create a puzzle out of the 2 sets of digits left, to find the co-ords for the bonus, and although I chose a lovely area for a short walk, working out the bonus doesn't have the same edge as phoning for the bonus. The phone (or rather sim) used for this would only be used for the cache, and wouldn't be in everyday use. I'm sure that Groundspeak rules allow you to use an external website as part of a puzzle. What they don't allow is for you to have to register before being able to access the website, and the reviewer will probably want you to demonstrate that he/she can actually get to the relevant web page without any sort of registration. I guess it's to prevent any sort of data gathering or storage, masquerading as a puzzle cache. Edited December 24, 2011 by Happy Humphrey Quote Link to comment
+chillypenguin Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Don't know whether it would be allowed but I probably wouldn't want to do it, after all how can I be sure the number you're using isn't a premium rate line charging be £££££ a minute? (BTW I'm not suggesting that's your intention but there's no way of knowing when I'm making the call whether the number is legit or not.) Because all mobile phones use an "07" prefix. Premium rate is "09" prefix. I had a similar idea for a help line. A Pay as You Go SIM card is about £1, and you don't need to keep in in a phone. You just need to make a call once every 6 months to keep the number active. Quote Link to comment
+geohatter Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 There is very little constancy amongst the reviewers. Our local reviewer is refusing to publish a series which is virtually identical to one which allowed by Lindinus just a few months ago. You will notice that I have now published the series after Groundspeak reversed my decision on Thursday. Sorry it took me til this morning to publish it but as Deci informed you I have had trouble with my internet connection so I didn't get the email until today. You appear to be citing precedent but since there is no precedent for cache setting, the decision had to be made by Groundspeak. Thank you for following the proper procedure and going to Groundspeak to make your case. Not a lot of people do that. Regards Paul Geohatter Volunteer UK Reviewer & Forum Mod - geocaching.com UK Geocaching Information & Resources http://www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk Geocaching.com Knowledge Books http://support.Groundspeak.com//index.php Quote Link to comment
+MartyBartfast Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Because all mobile phones use an "07" prefix. Premium rate is "09" prefix. I had a similar idea for a help line. A Pay as You Go SIM card is about £1, and you don't need to keep in in a phone. You just need to make a call once every 6 months to keep the number active. But the OP says the finder would have to use a mobile phone to ring a voice mail. So that's MY mobile phone but it doesn't say what service the voice mail may be on and it might not be a mobile, so anyone finding it has to be in the field with a knowlege of the charging scales for the different phone number prefixes? Getting people to ring dodgy numbers is a well tried and tested mechanism used by scammers for years, both to land them with large bills and to harvest numbers for other nefarious purposes. Having said all that I was playing devils advocate somewhat in my original response, as I would happily phone for the numbers if it was a cacher I recognised, but I doubt I would do it for someone I've not heard of. On balance I don't think it's a particularly good idea. Quote Link to comment
+Pieman Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I have a couple of caches where you need to phone a mobile number. The messages are relatively short and the cost likely to be small compared with the cost of driving to the cost. For the cache where you need to have a phone in the field, this is stated on the cache page. I did it because at the time I set them, I thought it was something a bit different. I have since done a couple of excellent caches that use a similar technique. I have so far resisted the temptation to harvest the numbers of the calls. Quote Link to comment
team tisri Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Anyone who doesn't want their number harvested can simply prefix the number they dial with 141 to withhold their own number. Quote Link to comment
+maxkim Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 It's a pity you didn't review my cache which I tried to set with exactly the same idea a couple of months back. I had it reviewed by Lindinus... There is very little constancy amongst the reviewers. Our local reviewer is refusing to publish a series which is virtually identical to one which allowed by Lindinus just a few months ago. This does seem to be a bit of an ongoing problem, but I belive that this is more of an issue with Groundspeak. If the reviewers have difficulty in applying the "Guidelines" consistently, what chance do we have? On the few times this has happened with me the reviewers have used their private comms to discuss the issue between themselves which does / did give a level of constancy... Quote Link to comment
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