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too much hand-holding expected?


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This came up in the other thread. Wondering if cache owners feel too much is expected of them. Somebody said they felt like they had to practically stand there and hand people the cache. Giving parking and trailhead waypoints, describing the terrain, adding attributes, describing what trail to take, exactly what to expect at GZ.

 

In my area, many caches have give-away hints, there is flagging in abundance, lots of hides in stumps, lots of easy ones where you don't even have to leave the main trail. Cache owners here are more than happy to help if you have trouble. When I started hiding caches myself, I copied this pattern. I hid one recently in a small patch of ivy and you wouldn't believe the amount of complaining about ivy on the cache page. Other caches of mine, I'm surprised when people complain about racoon poop or a dead bird nearby, I almost felt like they were expecting me to run out there with a shovel to take care of it so that other cachers won't be traumatized.

 

A few months ago, I went on holiday to another town where the cachers are hard-core. A pile of bear scat at the start of every trail and ammo cans in abundance. 90% no hints and if there was a hint, it was something like 'no hint needed' or 'why in the world would you need one'. I emailed one CO after looking for his cache 3 times and he was not helpful, he basically told me to look harder. I was in a bit of a shock looking for one cache in the forest there, I actually had to look <gasp> for it. There was no pile of sticks, no stump, no flagging, no hint, and I had to search a 50 foot radius in dense brush. I was quite annoyed, but I have to say, after it was found, I got alot more satisfaction out of that hunt than many of the easy ones I've found in my home town.

 

After this vacation, it got me thinking, and I've started making my caches a bit harder to find.

 

So here's the question: do you feel there's too much hand-holding expected of COs?

Edited by The_Incredibles_
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As a cache owner - no, I don't. If someone contacts me asking for help, I am happy to do so. I generally want my caches to be found (but also well hidden from muggles).

 

As a finder; it is rare that I contact an owner for help. But in cases where I have given a good effort and tried multiple times (and really want to find it), I'll ask for help. Almost always the owner has been helpful. If the owner doesn't want to help, that's their prerogative; but I appreciate it when they do.

 

I very much enjoy the challenge of a difficult cache - if that difficulty is due to factors such as a clever hide, cunning puzzle, multiple stages, difficult terrain, etc. I don't particularly like a "needle in a haystack" hide, so I wouldn't get extra pleasure out of spending an hour searching a 50 foot radius in dense brush with no hint. That doesn't mean I expect anyone to hold my hand; I just wouldn't enjoy it.

 

I don't do very well with micros in ivy covered trees in the woods. I have lots of DNFs on those. I usually say in my log something like "I don't do very well with this type of hide". To me that's not complaining about the ivy, it's my being honest that it's not something I enjoy.

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When I search for a cache, I expect nothing from the owner except that they did hide a cache and the coordinates given are as accurate as possible.

 

I do hope that it will be a good container and in a nice location, it will be creative, or entertain or challenge me.

 

That said, I appreciate it when the owner does little things that make the experience more enjoyable. Attributes are helpful, as are parking coordinates, especially when I'm in an unfamiliar area.

 

I always appreciate a solid hint, because I never check hints until I have to. Which means that I get rather peevish when I'm stuck on a cache and check the hint to find "no hint needed" or something of the sort.

 

But that's just me. I enjoy a challenge and I don't mind getting dirty or doing a long hike for a few finds. I know a few numbers-oriented cachers who get grumpy when anything about a cache hinders their ability to make a find as rapidly as possible (which means they need a lot of what you could call 'hand-holding' from the owner).

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You post makes this log I got on one of my caches yesterday very apropos.

We had a thread a while back in our local forums about lame caches popping up more and more:

 

Do you realize, Planet, that I had to walk to get to this one? I even got my shoes dirty. And I actually had to look to find the cache!

 

Whatever in the world is wrong, may I ask, with all those acres of beautifully paved parking lots? Where you can drive right up to the cache and not get dirty or bestir yourself from the comfort of the seat? Why, there are lamp-posts everywhere! Don't they make wonderful hiding spots?

 

And the cache itself, horror of horrors! An ammo can! Couldn't you have used a film can, or maybe even one of those nice fingernail-sized nano ones?

 

I, of course, don't mean a word I just said. I did find myself thinking of a certain memorable thread in the old CT Caching forum while doing this one, though, and it brought a smile to my face.

 

In truth, it was nice to be out in the fresh air, in forest and field, in hunt of a proper cache. Plus, if I don't get dirty, I don't feel as if I've accomplished anything of worth.

 

Thanks for giving me the chance to do all that.

 

SL, TNLN, and TFTC!

 

I have been known for hard hints, hard hides, good camo, and hardly anybody has my number to call for help. "cache" comes from the French word "cacher" which means "to hide". It doesn't mean "to place in plain view". We are playing hide and seek, after all. If we gave away all the hides, it would be like playing with the three year old that hides behind the sheer curtain, giggling and waving "Here I am!".

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I agree with you regarding descriptions and hints, but disagree with you regarding terrain, attributes, and parking.

 

IMO, if a cache is going to involve a steep ground, cachers should be aware of it ahead of time. If your cache involves a long hike, cachers should be aware of where they can legally park without getting ticketed or towed. Naturally this is what Groundspeak intended. Had this not been their intention, there would be no terrain scores or attributes.

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I don't expect hand holding. I do expect terrain to be accurately rated and not low balked to get more visitors. I also expect cache owners to maintain what they put out. There's a multi here which the cache owner had told people was missing a step since 2009. Do you think it's been fixed yet? Nope. Not disabled either. And that's status quo for the cacher. So I expect hiders to be more responsive than that.

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When I look for a cache I only expect a few things from the CO. A cache page that was thought out, it doesn't have to be extravegant but it sure is nice to have an accurate terrain and difficulty rating as well as an idea of what the area is like. A few attributes to describe anything out of the ordinary is much appreciated as well. I often use pocket queries to find caches that are winter friendly for instance so I may pass over alot of caches just because there aren't proper attributes. Beyond that, I expect accurate coordinates and a maintained cache. If you'd like to provide a hint, great. If not, that just makes the hunt that much more challenging. I don't think parking and trailhead waypoints are a must but if it's not obvious it may be a good idea to include them.

 

Now as a CO I tend to put some effort into my cache pages, I even like to include a picture of the area or a view if I can do so without giving away the location of the cache. I will include as many attributes as I can and when I take my coordinates I take 4 or 5 points and average them to be as accurate as I can be. I also fully expect to do cache maintenance as needed to make sure my container is in good shape and my logs are dry. I don't usually put a waypoint for trail heads or parking, but if I feel I need to I will. Most importantly whether seeking or hiding....HAVE FUN!!!!!! If you're busy complaining about the cache, skip it...easy as that.

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Do you realize, Planet, that I had to walk to get to this one? I even got my shoes dirty. And I actually had to look to find the cache!

 

Whatever in the world is wrong, may I ask, with all those acres of beautifully paved parking lots? Where you can drive right up to the cache and not get dirty or bestir yourself from the comfort of the seat? Why, there are lamp-posts everywhere! Don't they make wonderful hiding spots?

 

And the cache itself, horror of horrors! An ammo can! Couldn't you have used a film can, or maybe even one of those nice fingernail-sized nano ones?

 

I, of course, don't mean a word I just said. I did find myself thinking of a certain memorable thread in the old CT Caching forum while doing this one, though, and it brought a smile to my face.

 

In truth, it was nice to be out in the fresh air, in forest and field, in hunt of a proper cache. Plus, if I don't get dirty, I don't feel as if I've accomplished anything of worth.

 

Thanks for giving me the chance to do all that.

 

SL, TNLN, and TFTC!

 

7516d94b-a49b-4cfd-9947-9761cb0f9706.jpg

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i want parking coordinates, and that in the form of a waypoint or coordinates in the cache description, not "you can park safely at the screaming bridge" which is not the official name but rather one used by locals, and any pertinent information in regards to safety so that it would help me decide whether to go or it or not

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What do I expect:

Accurate coordinates

Accurate D/T ratings (a 1/1 should not be a difficult find)

If there is no parking readily available then I need parking coordinates and or the trail head. This mainly comes from my experience caching in other areas. It is frustrating driving around a neighborhood for 30 minutes trying to find a legal way to access a greenway/trail.

 

As a CO what do I provide:

All of that, plus attributes, and a good description of what container to look for (I don't have any CCCs yet). I try to give a good hint on medium caches.

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Well put, T4e. I don't expect to find every cache I look for, but easy to find/follow parking directions on cache pages for people who don't know the area (and who cache alone, without a local map reader in the car) should be a given. I don't expect the parking spot to be anywhere near the cache either. It can be miles away - I'd far rather park in a decent car park and then walk a way rather than be driving around trying to work out the best place to stop. I wish COs wouldn't assume everyone wants to drive up to the nearest road and park on the verge or in a farmer's gate for a quick cache & dash.

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As one who transitions through many areas in my wide ranging travels.

 

I appreciate co-ords. to critical intersections and to trail heads.

 

While they are not typically needed in the "flatlands", they are rather important in some of the foothill and mountain communities I visit..

 

Back in the day road builders in the Sierra Foothills must have followed snakes because they twist and turn up, down and around mountainsides. And we who transit an area sometimes wind up in awkward places and situations.

 

In the Emerald Triangle of Sonoma / Humboldt / Mendocino counties transient cachers have inadvertantly gotten into marijuana grows soooooooo parking and trailhead co-ords are in some instances vital information.

 

Having the CO hand me the cache along with a cup of warm cocoa on a frosty Sierra Morning. Yeessssssssssssss!!!!

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I want my caches to be hidden from muggles, not from other cachers. I want people who get to ground zero of my caches to have a very high probability of success and I want them to enjoy the experiences.

 

My caches tend to be about the location and not the cache itself. My intention is to show you something interesting and let you get your smiley. I want my cache to highlight the location, not distract from it.

 

I even treat my puzzles as an added bonus for those who enjoy that sort of thing and not an obstacle to those who don't. That means if someone asks me for help with one of them I'll provide assistance to whatever level they want from obscure gentle nudges right through walking them through the solution step by step.

 

Some caches are hidden in very creative ways and I don't mind spending more time hunting for those, but if people expect me to spend a lot of time looking for a LnL thrown into the middle of a large juniper then forget it, I'll DNF and walk away.

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I want my caches to be hidden from muggles, not from other cachers. I want people who get to ground zero of my caches to have a very high probability of success and I want them to enjoy the experiences.

 

My caches tend to be about the location and not the cache itself. My intention is to show you something interesting and let you get your smiley. I want my cache to highlight the location, not distract from it.

 

I even treat my puzzles as an added bonus for those who enjoy that sort of thing and not an obstacle to those who don't. That means if someone asks me for help with one of them I'll provide assistance to whatever level they want from obscure gentle nudges right through walking them through the solution step by step.

 

Some caches are hidden in very creative ways and I don't mind spending more time hunting for those, but if people expect me to spend a lot of time looking for a LnL thrown into the middle of a large juniper then forget it, I'll DNF and walk away.

 

Well stated:

 

( Geo-Misery / Geo-Torture not all that much fun )

( In an Eco sensitive area nothing wrong with a meaningful and direct hint ... keeps the playing field from getting thrashed and the land owners / managers in a good mood )

( Don't thrash the playing field )

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In general, I think people tend to hide the kinds of caches that they like to find. I also think they tend to write listing pages that are similar to the ones they appreciate reading.

 

For me, driving around in circles in search of legal parking usually isn't an enjoyable part of the geocaching experience. So I provide parking coordinates and am grateful to COs who return the favor. People who feel that discovering a good parking spot is an integral part of the search probably will ignore the Additional Waypoints on my listings and are less likely to include them on their own listings.

 

I enjoy challenging finds, so I'll often create challenging hides...at least for my easily accessible caches. For my caches along mountain trails, however, I want people to enjoy their surroundings (like I do). The cache is merely icing on the cake, and I'll make these ones easy to find -- going so far as to include spoiler photos for some.

 

If my hide is in a location that could be damaged by too much geocacher activity, then I'll provide a strong hint and maybe some flagging.

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Apparently there is a cacher near here who's idea of making a cache harder to find is to not actually hide it at the coordinates, but within a 10m radius.

 

As far as I'm aware noone has yet been able to convince him to change his tactic. I haven't come across any of his caches yet, but when I do I'll be reading the logs first!

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This hobby is for EVERYWHERE from young children to elderly folks. For the super physically capable to those in wheel chairs.

 

This hobby is different things to different people. Not everyone enjoys it the same way.

 

Rate your caches appropriately....and give any/all attributes that you believe will help people prepare for the journey.

 

When I'm traveling out of the area, I tend to pick caches that have as much information in them as possible - so I know I'm prepared for them. If caches are lacking information - I won't visit them. Depending on my mood for the day or how I'm feeling (I'm getting older), will determine what types of caches I visit.

 

Some days I can't find s***....and other days I'm on fire. So be it.

 

The community we have where I'm am, is a great group of poeple. A network of people/friends who have monthly meetings. We share phone numbers, hints, tips, and go on group outtings. It's GREAT!!

 

I don't mind holding hands or helping people. It's all part of the enjoyable geocaching experience!!! If it weren't for the people in this hobby, the hand holding, the hints, the parking coordinates, and all the attributes...... a lot of us might just lose interest in the hobby.

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Apparently there is a cacher near here who's idea of making a cache harder to find is to not actually hide it at the coordinates, but within a 10m radius.

 

As far as I'm aware noone has yet been able to convince him to change his tactic. I haven't come across any of his caches yet, but when I do I'll be reading the logs first!

 

Offset co-ords. = bad practice could lead to thrashing the playing field. Offset co-ords. for traditionals are at variance with the guidelines.

 

Offset co-ords. acceptable for puzzle caches ... and cache page should indicate offset co-ords.

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I am new at this game, just over a month now. I do like to find the cache at the co-ordinates posted. However, sometimes due to the quality of the sat lock at the time, and at the time the CO hid the cache, there are differances. I normaly get locks that are +- 3 metres, which is already a 10 foot circle in which to look. Sometimes its obvious where it is hidden, other times not so much. A small LnL in a pile of rocks 3 metres away from GZ in a grassy field is not so hard. A little nano hidden under a pine branch in a forest can be very hard to find!

 

I also just download the waypoints to the GPS and out I go. That makes it harder as I really don't know what I am looking for. That alone makes it more challenging.

 

I don't always read the write-up in detail or even print it out. For some I should at least print it out, for some of the virtuals for instance, so I know what it is I am looking for to answer the question in order to log the find. There are some virtuals in this area that I know what they are, and where they are, but can't answer the question as I don't know exactly how many metres long the erratic is.

 

No, I don't want to be handed the cache. But I don't want to have to tear everything apart to find it either. I will move on if I don't find it after a few minutes of looking.

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The first new person I ever met through caching has this philosophy: "Caches exist to be found." I mostly agree with that.

 

I expect at minimum accurate coordinates, D/T rating, and honesty with whatever further info is provided.

 

I'm an advocate for use of Attributes because they provide useful info at a glance and are useful for PQs. I like parking coords. Trailhead coords don't usually seem necessary to me. I don't expect (or usually want) to be told exactly where the cache is or GZ described exactly, but I really like people who provide some info about the area - who the park is named after and what facilities it has, why you're bringing me to this spot, etc.

 

Giving no info on the cache itself and placing a really hard hide: there are people who love those and there is a place for them, so long as it is clear that's what you're dealing with.

 

I expect to go outdoors, hike, sweat, may get dirty, may encounter wild animals, leave the trail - anything I would possibly encounter if I was hiking without geocaching. I don't expect to go diving into poison ivy or thorns or otherwise be intentionally agonized; those are things I feel should be clearly alerted on the cache page because most people would avoid them and would not normally encounter them if they came to the same location. To put it another way: a guardrail or the backside of a tree is often overlooked; a briar patch or field of poison ivy is usually avoided.

 

It's also important to remember that for any hobby (and I've dealt with this alot via gaming) those of us discussing things on a message board are in the minority. The majority of cachers will never read these boards, never attend an event, and probably never even meet another cacher. Even if they do, it probably wont be when they first start caching. I started caching with a friend and his iPhone and knowing zero other geocachers. From families who cache together to tourists to the elderly to people who have very limited outdoors experience before they start geocaching to simple newbies: not everyone is looking for a challenge and some simply aren't ready for one yet. If the learning curve is too steep, it discourages too many people. I have a very smart and tech savvy friend who has found some caches with myself and other friends, but found dealing with the website and logging her finds for the first time frustrating and difficult with the unfamiliar layout and terminology. Everyone has to start somewhere and everyone gets to play this game at their own pace and in their own way (within the guidelines).

Edited by Joshism
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So here's the question: do you feel there's too much hand-holding expected of COs?

 

I expect this varies regionally. I'm not aware of any particular trends on this near me. Locally, I don't see much complaining about this.

 

I do more "hand holding" myself on my lower terrain rated caches, more description, parking coords, trail head info, etc.

And less on some with higher terrain ratings.

 

I own a cache with a couple of attributes, no parking coords, no hint and this write up, "for more information, see coords"; the antithesis of "hand holding". No one is complaining; it's not aimed at families with kids, or novice cachers. The higher terrain rating is enough to point it at the people for whom it was hidden.

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If people complain in their logs, then they obviously didn't like some aspect of the cache. I don't see a problem with that. You can't please everybody, and there's no point in even trying.

 

I hide the kind of caches I like to find. That includes easy-to-find caches, a hike involved, give-away hints, parking coords, etc. I'm not catering to the people who don't like em the way I like em. They can go ahead and complain that my cache was too easy, the hint was too explicit, etc. I'm catering to people like me (hopefully I'm not the only one who likes em the way I like em).

:)

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Yes. The modern world expects to have evrything handed to it. On a silver platter, if available.

Yes. Parking coords, or directions to the parking would be nice. But it is not required. Gupy brings me to the nearest street. It's up to me to decide the real way to get there. As mentioned on the previous thread, we made good use of my high school French trying to find the parking for an EarthCache in Quebec. "A droit"! Gotcha.

That being said, parking coords can sometimes be as tough. The parking for the EarthCache was 1/2 mile off the road.

Am I entitled to explicit directions to get to the cache? Nope. To expect is entitlement (as nice as it would be.) Do I put in parking coords? Sometimes. Expecially when your GPS is going to lead you astray. I have a cache in Weehawken, NJ, for example. Your GPS will tell you to park in the Lincoln Tunnel. That is not a wise idea! So I did give parking coords.

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not everyone is looking for a challenge and some simply aren't ready for one yet. If the learning curve is too steep, it discourages too many people. I have a very smart and tech savvy friend who has found some caches with myself and other friends, but found dealing with the website and logging her finds for the first time frustrating and difficult with the unfamiliar layout and terminology. Everyone has to start somewhere and everyone gets to play this game at their own pace and in their own way (within the guidelines).

 

I agree with this. My mother, father and sister live in the town I described. They all tried caching, but found it too hard and consequently don't go out anymore. It's a shame because if the caches there had good hints, flagging etc. I"m sure they would have enjoyed it more and probably would have continued and hid many caches of their own. The first day I went caching there I had 3 DNFs and no finds. Very discouraging if I had been a newbie.

Edited by The_Incredibles_
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This came up in the other thread. Wondering if cache owners feel too much is expected of them. Somebody said they felt like they had to practically stand there and hand people the cache. Giving parking and trailhead waypoints, describing the terrain, adding attributes, describing what trail to take, exactly what to expect at GZ.

 

In my area, many caches have give-away hints, there is flagging in abundance, lots of hides in stumps, lots of easy ones where you don't even have to leave the main trail. Cache owners here are more than happy to help if you have trouble. When I started hiding caches myself, I copied this pattern. I hid one recently in a small patch of ivy and you wouldn't believe the amount of complaining about ivy on the cache page. Other caches of mine, I'm surprised when people complain about racoon poop or a dead bird nearby, I almost felt like they were expecting me to run out there with a shovel to take care of it so that other cachers won't be traumatized.

 

A few months ago, I went on holiday to another town where the cachers are hard-core. A pile of bear scat at the start of every trail and ammo cans in abundance. 90% no hints and if there was a hint, it was something like 'no hint needed' or 'why in the world would you need one'. I emailed one CO after looking for his cache 3 times and he was not helpful, he basically told me to look harder. I was in a bit of a shock looking for one cache in the forest there, I actually had to look <gasp> for it. There was no pile of sticks, no stump, no flagging, no hint, and I had to search a 50 foot radius in dense brush. I was quite annoyed, but I have to say, after it was found, I got alot more satisfaction out of that hunt than many of the easy ones I've found in my home town.

 

After this vacation, it got me thinking, and I've started making my caches a bit harder to find.

 

So here's the question: do you feel there's too much hand-holding expected of COs?

 

Since I live near you, I might as well address your post! :D

 

As far as the caches around here having give-away hints and not being far from the trail, a lot of the time that's done to protect nature. If you tell cachers it's in a stump next to the trail, it's unlikely you'll have cachers tromping through a sensitive area. If your coordinates are 100m from the trail, and there's no obvious hiding spot and no hint, you'll get a lot of damage to vegetation. The parks around here are mostly urban or suburban style parks, so they're heavily used and often carefully protected. The "other town" you referred to is much more rural than here, so the hides probably tend toward being more "woodsy" (I couldn't come up with a better term), allowing them to use larger containers and not having to be as careful about being caught off the trail by a parks official. I've never cached there, so I may be wrong, but that's how I imagine it.

 

The flagging is mostly on the old TEAM KFWB GPS caches. They tended to take you to out-of-the-way places, but didn't intend for the cache to be hard to find, just hard to get to. You may have to bushwack for hundreds of meters, but they'll let you know exactly what you're looking for once you get there. That was just their style.

 

I assume the recent ivy hide you're referring to is "G"? I think the complaints about the ivy are just because locals are frustrated with searching in ivy. There are lots of caches around here hidden in ivy, and some are pretty evil. I wouldn't take the complaints personally.

 

My opinion is that if you hide a cache in a difficult area (ie. ivy, rock wall, etc.), make sure you carefully consider the difficulty rating. Also, not providing a hint or expecting multiple visits should also be considered when choosing the difficulty rating. There's a cache around here that's a film canister in an evil mesh-enclosed rock wall (photo), with what I understand are fairly loose coordinates, a useless hint, but only difficulty 2! Cachers rarely find it on their first visit. I've been there at least 4 times now (I'm losing count), and still haven't found it. Asking previous finders doesn't really help, because unless you take a wide-angle photo with someone pointing to it, they can't describe where they found it. Unsurprisingly, it also seems to migrate. Considering all this, if this was my cache, I'd rate it at least 3.5, if not higher. Correspondingly, if I was searching for this cache as a difficulty 4, I wouldn't be anywhere near as frustrated at DNFing it as I am now. At difficulty 2, I would expect at least a slightly helpful hint. It wouldn't have to give away the hide (otherwise it would be a 1 or 1.5), but it should allow cachers to have a higher probability of finding it on their first visit. Personally, if I see a cache rated about 2 or under, I very much expect to find it on my first attempt. If you hide a cache difficult enough to take multiple attempts, rate it higher.</rant>

 

As far as cachers expecting to have their hand held, yes, there are some of those around here. You'll probably find, though, that they tend to be newer cachers. We have a lot of experienced cachers around here, and I can't see them complaining like you're describing.

 

Parking and trailhead coordinates are not necessarily expected, but in some cases very much appreciated. If parking or the trail are difficult to find, it's a very good idea to provide the coordinates. There have been many a cache where I've had a very hard time finding where to park or where to access the cache from. If it will help with legal (avoiding private property) or safety (avoiding dangerous parking area or dangerous access) reasons, you should most definitely provide coordinates.

 

I've only DNFed one of your caches, and that was only because of muggles. I've never seen any reason to complain about any of your hides. They're far more creative than the ones I can come up with, and the amount of information you provide seems to fit perfectly with the types of hides. I'd say you should keep doing what you're doing, and just ignore the complainers.

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Yes, way too many people in the world expect to achieve their goal the first time they try and with a minimum of effort. It is not surprising that this attitude spills over into geocaching. I like caches that get me away from the road for awhile and do similar hides. I've noticed the traffic to my caches is steadily decreasing as many of the old timers have already found them, and most of the the newer cachers tend to be looking for the easy numbers.

 

examples:

Rocks & Hills

Choose Your Own Adventure

Cliff Notes Red

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I am 2 months into this activity and I will say what keeps my attention. Admittedly, I like thwe simple cache and dash when I am on errands or need to fill some time. This not only helps with possibily seeing a unique way of approaching how I might hide mine, but also to see the creativity in the simple. But, when it comes down to taking the time out of a day to go out and hunt, I want to be challenged. I like creative caches that blow my mind...make me have to come back and try again...using the terrain to be unique. The more of these I find then I have an idea of what to look for in similar terrains.

 

This should be about the hunt and in a few days my oldest boy is coming home for Christmas from college. I want to take him out and share what his old man has been doing as a new activity. I want him to see the fun...and the challenge.

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Apparently there is a cacher near here who's idea of making a cache harder to find is to not actually hide it at the coordinates, but within a 10m radius.

 

As far as I'm aware noone has yet been able to convince him to change his tactic. I haven't come across any of his caches yet, but when I do I'll be reading the logs first!

 

I'm pretty sure that's against the guidelines. Has the local Reviewer been made aware of the issues?

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I'm not a fan of ivy caches myself. I don't like needle-in-a-haystack caches.

I suppose someone must, but I don't know who.

 

I used to cache with someone who got really mad when there weren't coords, or when he couldn't find it, so I know what you mean.

 

What I expect:

1. decent coords. At least try to get them right, okay?

2. Correct terrain/ difficulty rating

3. waterproof container - this is WA state, okay? I hate opening a moldy mess.

4. owner maintenance. If you don't want to do maintenance, don't hide caches.

 

If half the people looking for it can't find it then it's not a 1.5 terrain, okay?

Part of the (unofficial) definition of a 1.5 is that if a few people can't find it then it's gone.

 

If it's a tough puzzle cache, it's really nice when the owner wants to work with you on it. It happens a lot around here, because people want their caches found (well most of them anyway) but if it's a fair puzzle and they won't help, then I'll just move on.

 

The puzzles that bug me where the owners don't help is the puzzles that aren't fair puzzles. Those usually are puzzles that have many possible solutions, such as the new sudoku cache that had 6 solutions and counting when it was new. The owner had created the puzzle themselves and hadn't tried to work it. He should have beta tested it, but he didn't and just got really irate when finders asked about it. I just put it on my ignore list.

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I'm not a fan of ivy caches myself. I don't like needle-in-a-haystack caches.

I suppose someone must, but I don't know who.

 

 

I don't really think of ivy hides as needle in a hatstack type of hide, depending on what the container is. And I agree that most people don't like looking for needle in a haystack type of hides but it's not about the searchers, it's all about the owners. People that hide caches like that, do so because they prefer getting DNF's, it makes them feel like they've won. There is no other explanation. Why else would someone take a bison tube, paint it brown and attach it to some fishing line, then tie it to a branch and throw it randomly back into a patch of scotch broom in a mosquito infested wetland? Or why would someone take a similar bison tube to a wooded area, stick it in a moss covered stump in a sea of mossy stumps and logs and then post a hint that says "moss"?

 

The answer is because they get joy out of others not finding it. They think they are being clever...

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Apparently there is a cacher near here who's idea of making a cache harder to find is to not actually hide it at the coordinates, but within a 10m radius.

 

As far as I'm aware noone has yet been able to convince him to change his tactic. I haven't come across any of his caches yet, but when I do I'll be reading the logs first!

 

I'm pretty sure that's against the guidelines. Has the local Reviewer been made aware of the issues?

 

The local reviewer is a National reviewer, not always aware of whats happening around the country. I haven't actually done any of the guy's caches yet. Just going by what I've been told at events!

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I'm not a fan of ivy caches myself. I don't like needle-in-a-haystack caches.

I suppose someone must, but I don't know who.

 

 

I don't really think of ivy hides as needle in a hatstack type of hide, depending on what the container is. And I agree that most people don't like looking for needle in a haystack type of hides but it's not about the searchers, it's all about the owners. People that hide caches like that, do so because they prefer getting DNF's, it makes them feel like they've won. There is no other explanation. Why else would someone take a bison tube, paint it brown and attach it to some fishing line, then tie it to a branch and throw it randomly back into a patch of scotch broom in a mosquito infested wetland? Or why would someone take a similar bison tube to a wooded area, stick it in a moss covered stump in a sea of mossy stumps and logs and then post a hint that says "moss"?

 

The answer is because they get joy out of others not finding it. They think they are being clever...

 

What we need is a needle-in-the-haystack attribute. :D None of my hides are like this, fortunately, my ivy cache mentioned is a red apple in a small patch of ivy at a local park.

 

There's a team here which likes to hide nanos in forested areas. I don't know why, but I"m going to go looking for one of theirs again tomorrow. :P

Edited by The_Incredibles_
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I don't believe in entitlements and certainly don't expect to have my hand held AT ALL. But what I do expect is that any information that is voluntarily provided on the cache listing be as accurate as possible. That includes coordinates, ratings and any hints (not referring to subtle hints, just wrong hints).

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Adding information about parking and trails is very useful; it only takes a minute or two when writing a cache description, so it isn't really hand holding. In the forums people have complained that woods caches don't get nearly as many visits as urban caches. One reason that urban caches may be more popular is that online services can easily provide maps and driving directions. Increasingly, the descriptions for woods caches have very little information about parking and trails; these caches seem to be intended for geocachers that are already familiar with the parks the caches are in. Many people don't even know these parks and trails exist, let alone how to get to them. Map information from the online services is often incomplete or inaccurate for some of the rural parks.

 

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

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I don't believe in entitlements and certainly don't expect to have my hand held AT ALL. But what I do expect is that any information that is voluntarily provided on the cache listing be as accurate as possible. That includes coordinates, ratings and any hints (not referring to subtle hints, just wrong hints).

 

+1

 

A cache owner can put as little or as much information on the cache page as he/she wants. I just expect any info there to be accurate.

 

This too, (i edited one little thing):

 

What I expect:

1. decent coords. At least try to get them right, okay?

2. Correct terrain/ difficulty rating

3. waterproof container - this is WA ANY state, okay? I hate opening a moldy mess.

4. owner maintenance. If you don't want to do maintenance, don't hide caches.

 

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