Is using advanced GPS features cheating?

[+W4G_SOTAGoat]

I came across a multi I want to try. Stage one gives you a heading and distance to the final, but the CO highly recommends you don't just follow the compass due to terrain.

 

Normally, this would take a map and simple plotting/projection. However, my Montana allows you to project a waypoint based on heading and distance from your current location. Would using this function be considered "cheating"?

 

Thanks!

[knowschad]

I came across a multi I want to try. Stage one gives you a heading and distance to the final, but the CO highly recommends you don't just follow the compass due to terrain.

 

Normally, this would take a map and simple plotting/projection. However, my Montana allows you to project a waypoint based on heading and distance from your current location. Would using this function be considered "cheating"?

 

Thanks!

 

Many/most GPS units have waypoint projection features. Using that feature is most definitely NOT cheating.

[+W4G_SOTAGoat]

I came across a multi I want to try. Stage one gives you a heading and distance to the final, but the CO highly recommends you don't just follow the compass due to terrain.

 

Normally, this would take a map and simple plotting/projection. However, my Montana allows you to project a waypoint based on heading and distance from your current location. Would using this function be considered "cheating"?

 

Thanks!

 

Many/most GPS units have waypoint projection features. Using that feature is most definitely NOT cheating.

 

Great. I saw in the logs where a couple of people mentioned having to go home, project it on a map, and return. Just wanted to make sure I was following the spirit of the hunt.

[+zodiac73]

A good multi will be one rather than a traditional to provide a scenic walk or take you to landmarks or other features. Depends why you went really, for that or just for a quick point!

 

It might be cheating yourself, but there aren't really any rules to break by doing it.

 

The sarcastic side of me wants to say "why not just use a helicopter" but I fought it and won so I won't

 

lol

[knowschad]

A good multi will be one rather than a traditional to provide a scenic walk or take you to landmarks or other features. Depends why you went really, for that or just for a quick point!

 

It might be cheating yourself, but there aren't really any rules to break by doing it.

 

The sarcastic side of me wants to say "why not just use a helicopter" but I fought it and won so I won't

 

lol

I think you misunderstood the question. It is not cheating to use the GPS to project a waypoint. In fact, that is generally the expected method by the cache owner.

[+luvvinbird]

I came across a multi I want to try. Stage one gives you a heading and distance to the final, but the CO highly recommends you don't just follow the compass due to terrain.

 

Normally, this would take a map and simple plotting/projection. However, my Montana allows you to project a waypoint based on heading and distance from your current location. Would using this function be considered "cheating"?

 

Thanks!

nope

[+addisonbr]

I came across a multi I want to try. Stage one gives you a heading and distance to the final, but the CO highly recommends you don't just follow the compass due to terrain.

 

Normally, this would take a map and simple plotting/projection. However, my Montana allows you to project a waypoint based on heading and distance from your current location. Would using this function be considered "cheating"?

 

Thanks!

I actually would have assumed that the CO intended for us to use the waypoint projection function on our GPSr's. So I definitely don't think you'd be "cheating".

[ao318]

I'm thinking those other logs were from people that may not have had good mapping software on their GPSr's and didn't want to wander around looking for the correct trail or path to the next stage. They may have figured it would be easier to plot it out on google earth and then come back and finish the multi at a later time.

 

I myself have run into this situation on my older units. You see a line and follow it tramping up and down hills and working your way around obstacles when just a few hundred feet away there was a trail that meandered its way to the next stage. This is one of the reasons I got the delormes extra mapping software, it was like having google maps on my unit and I could see the trails on the imagery better. Another option, if you have a smart phone and are in cell phone coverage, is to open your mapping software on your phone and look for nearby trails.

[+Ambient_Skater]

The sarcastic side of me wants to say "why not just use a helicopter" but I fought it and won so I won't

 

lol

I'm not sure why you'd even think of saying that. The point of geocaching is to use a GPS, so the CO probably expected seekers to use waypoint projection since it's a function on the GPS.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Ambient_Skater

[+JL_HSTRE]

I came across a multi I want to try. Stage one gives you a heading and distance to the final, but the CO highly recommends you don't just follow the compass due to terrain.

 

Normally, this would take a map and simple plotting/projection. However, my Montana allows you to project a waypoint based on heading and distance from your current location. Would using this function be considered "cheating"?

 

Seems fine to me. For some - especially new cachers - figuring out how to project a waypoint is part of the challenge!

 

One of the earliest multis I ever did required me to project a waypoint. S1 was along a canal; when correctly projected, S2 was on the other side of the canal. There was not a way to cross the canal at that location. (You had use a nearby highway.)

[Pup Patrol]

I came across a multi I want to try. Stage one gives you a heading and distance to the final, but the CO highly recommends you don't just follow the compass due to terrain.

 

Normally, this would take a map and simple plotting/projection. However, my Montana allows you to project a waypoint based on heading and distance from your current location. Would using this function be considered "cheating"?

 

Thanks!

 

Many/most GPS units have waypoint projection features. Using that feature is most definitely NOT cheating.

 

Great. I saw in the logs where a couple of people mentioned having to go home, project it on a map, and return. Just wanted to make sure I was following the spirit of the hunt.

 

Maybe they didn't have a gps...do smartphones have the ability to project a waypoint?

[knowschad]

I came across a multi I want to try. Stage one gives you a heading and distance to the final, but the CO highly recommends you don't just follow the compass due to terrain.

 

Normally, this would take a map and simple plotting/projection. However, my Montana allows you to project a waypoint based on heading and distance from your current location. Would using this function be considered "cheating"?

 

Thanks!

 

Many/most GPS units have waypoint projection features. Using that feature is most definitely NOT cheating.

 

Great. I saw in the logs where a couple of people mentioned having to go home, project it on a map, and return. Just wanted to make sure I was following the spirit of the hunt.

 

Maybe they didn't have a gps...do smartphones have the ability to project a waypoint?

 

More to the point, do smartphones users have the ability to project a waypoint?

[+zodiac73]

I certainly didn't misunderstand the question! Somebody goes to the time and trouble to set up a multi for a reason, the question says can I use technology to bypass the stages and get straight to the cache. yes?

 

Sure, that would make it a traditional / save time and effort. If that's what you want to do then go for it. I'm assuming its a multi for a reason though, to take finders to certain interesting features or landmarks or just to be a bit more fun than a traditional.

 

The helicopter line I did say was a sarcastic thought, as in why not make it super-quick and completely change the way the cache was intended which I think you'll find was "go for a nice walk" rather than sign the log and get another cache off the map as quickly and easily as possible.

 

I did actually say do it however you want to

[+thebruce0]

Maybe they didn't have a gps...do smartphones have the ability to project a waypoint?

Generally, there's an app for that, yeah. If not, there's always the calculator (I don't know a smartphone that doesn't have one; you'd just need to know the right formula). But for projection calculation, it would depend on your smartphone at least. iPhone - definitely. I'm positive there's an android app to help with that, and most likely blackberry.

As for knowschad, ignore him

[Pup Patrol]

As for knowschad, ignore him

 

No worries there.

[+germanybert]

One word - NO

[AZcachemeister]

I have a couple of ways to project a waypoint using my ANDROID phone.

 

Making use of the available knowledge and equipment is never 'cheating'...including the helicopter if you have one handy. (IF ONLY!)

 

There are no field observers to make sure you do it a certain way, and nobody will know unless you blab it in your log.

 

Others may cry FOUL! because they didn't know how to use their GPSr, or because they didn't have a helicopter...but that is their problem, not yours.

[+bflentje]

I came across a multi I want to try. Stage one gives you a heading and distance to the final, but the CO highly recommends you don't just follow the compass due to terrain.

 

Normally, this would take a map and simple plotting/projection. However, my Montana allows you to project a waypoint based on heading and distance from your current location. Would using this function be considered "cheating"?

 

Thanks!

 

Find the cache using any (legal) means necessary. The only cheating in geocaching is where you cheat yourself.

[knowschad]

As for knowschad, ignore him

 

Ditto.

[knowschad]

I certainly didn't misunderstand the question! Somebody goes to the time and trouble to set up a multi for a reason, the question says can I use technology to bypass the stages and get straight to the cache. yes?

 

Sure, that would make it a traditional / save time and effort. If that's what you want to do then go for it. I'm assuming its a multi for a reason though, to take finders to certain interesting features or landmarks or just to be a bit more fun than a traditional.

 

 

I still think you are misunderstanding. This is a multi-cache that requires you to project a waypoint from the first stage. The only question here is whether it is cheating to use your GPS to do the projection, or a map and a calculator to arrive at the coordinates for the next stage. That would not make this a traditional, any more than a multi that had a "questions to answer" stage that had to be solved to get to the next stage.

[+CanadianRockies]

I certainly didn't misunderstand the question! Somebody goes to the time and trouble to set up a multi for a reason, the question says can I use technology to bypass the stages and get straight to the cache. yes?

No. The OP didn't mention how many stages were in the multi. It just said information at Stage 1 provided a projection to the Final Stage. I (and, probably, most people here) took that to mean this multi-cache had two stages (Stage 1 and the Final). This seems like a reasonable assumption since very few multis provide information that allows you to skip intermediate steps.

 

The cache owner also recommends that you don't go directly from Stage 1 to the Final due to terrain issues. Perhaps there is a cliff or some other feature between the two stages.

[+zodiac73]

 

I still think you are misunderstanding. This is a multi-cache that requires you to project a waypoint from the first stage. The only question here is whether it is cheating to use your GPS to do the projection, or a map and a calculator to arrive at the coordinates for the next stage. That would not make this a traditional, any more than a multi that had a "questions to answer" stage that had to be solved to get to the next stage.

 

Ah, on reflection I didn't quite understand the question then. I've never seen a multi like this, I assumed a multi-stage cache as I described. I need to read more carefully!

[+zodiac73]

 

Ah, on reflection I didn't quite understand the question then. I've never seen a multi like this, I assumed a multi-stage cache as I described. I need to read more carefully!

 

Apologies!

[+thebruce0]

As for knowschad, ignore him

 

Ditto.

 

joke. haha. see: " "

[Pup Patrol]

I came across a multi I want to try. Stage one gives you a heading and distance to the final, but the CO highly recommends you don't just follow the compass due to terrain.

 

Normally, this would take a map and simple plotting/projection. However, my Montana allows you to project a waypoint based on heading and distance from your current location. Would using this function be considered "cheating"?

 

Thanks!

 

Could you give us the GC code for this cache? Thanks.

[Pup Patrol]

 

I still think you are misunderstanding. This is a multi-cache that requires you to project a waypoint from the first stage. The only question here is whether it is cheating to use your GPS to do the projection, or a map and a calculator to arrive at the coordinates for the next stage. That would not make this a traditional, any more than a multi that had a "questions to answer" stage that had to be solved to get to the next stage.

 

Ah, on reflection I didn't quite understand the question then. I've never seen a multi like this, I assumed a multi-stage cache as I described. I need to read more carefully!

 

Here's the cache page for the "project a waypoint" multi-cache we found years ago with our etrex Legend. Definitely not an "advanced" gps.

 

The cache was hidden in 2005:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=89fdb1dd-eb59-4f93-8abd-ce4246ee562b

[knowschad]

I need to read more carefully!

Happens to me way too often!

[knowschad]

As for knowschad, ignore him

 

Ditto.

 

joke. haha. see: " "

 

I know. I enjoyed it.

[+PJ²:]

My GPS will project a waypoint, but when I need it to be exactly on the money I goto http://www.fizzymagic.net/Geocaching/FizzyCalc/index.html

[+wimseyguy]

I came across a multi I want to try. Stage one gives you a heading and distance to the final, but the CO highly recommends you don't just follow the compass due to terrain.

 

Normally, this would take a map and simple plotting/projection. However, my Montana allows you to project a waypoint based on heading and distance from your current location. Would using this function be considered "cheating"?

 

Thanks!

I actually would have assumed that the CO intended for us to use the waypoint projection function on our GPSr's. So I definitely don't think you'd be "cheating".

 

I concur, but if you are also using the high-resolution topo maps to make for an easier trek between stages that is a different story.

[+Dgwphotos]

As an owner of a cache that uses projection, that is what I expect, but if someone does it manually, they deserve kudos.

[+jellis]

2.1. Listing Guidelines that Apply to All Geocaches

This page is an extension of our Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines.

 

Technical Requirements

Listings must contain accurate GPS coordinates. You must visit the geocache site and obtain all the coordinates with a GPS device. GPS usage is an integral and essential element of both hiding and finding geocaches and must be demonstrated for all cache submissions. Projecting waypoints from locations defined by coordinates is permissible. For geocaches that include Additional Waypoints, see the guidelines specific to those cache types.

[+redsox_mark]

The first cache of this type I found I did the projection manually. I simply walked in the direction indicated for the distance indicated... and tried to check I was roughly correct by monitoring the distance and bearing I was from the previous stage. I found it but with some difficulty.

 

The second of this type I found, the cache owner mentioned in the cache description that you might wish to use your GPSr to project a waypoint..... so I looked in the manual of my device and found out how to do that. I felt stupid for not knowing this the first time.

[+The Real Boudica.]

I am a bit in the dark about this. Is projecting a waypoint something like move 200m @ 230 degrees? How do you work that out? I could probably manage the degree correction but have no idea how degrees/minutes relate to distance, do I need to know? Its one of those conundrums that confuse my brain the more I think about it, and being reasonably intelligent and inquisitive I want to know and it annoys me. Can anyone help me out?

[+Bear and Ragged]

It's not cheating, it's part of caching.

However, as you say in the original post...

 

but the CO highly recommends you don't just follow the compass due to terrain.

 

Don't follow the arrow, you may find yourself over the edge of a steep drop !

[+palmetto]

Is projecting a waypoint something like move 200m @ 230 degrees? How do you work that out? I could probably manage the degree correction but have no idea how degrees/minutes relate to distance, do I need to know?

 

Yes, it's very like, "move 200m at 230°".

The degree/minutes doesn't "relate to distance". Those are 2 separate elements.

 

Assume you're at the first stage of a multi-cache. In the cache container the instructions state that the final is

650m away at 40°. You need to follow a line that's 40° away from where you're standing (this roughly NE) for 650m.

 

All below assumes you're using a hand held gps, for phones, buy an app ;-). Seriously, I don't know the phone screens look, and I'd guess there's a lot of variation.

 

You can probably use your gps to create (project) a waypoint that's 650m feet away, at 40°from where you're standing. Most hand helds will do this. "How?" is a question best answered by reading the owners manual.

 

Or you can leave your current "go to" alone - ie leave the gps navigating to stage one, and move away from it. Watch the compass screen (I'm assuming you have a compass screen). Move away at the bearing of 40°. Your gps will be telling you that the "go to" is behind you at the reverse bearing, ie, 40°+180° = 220°. When your gps is telling you that you are 650m from stage one at 220°, you're at the final.

 

For shorter compass bearing offsets, this is usually what I do, I don't bother to project a new waypoint. For longer distances, it's pleasant to be navigating forward, project a forward "go to", though this is just a function of what a person is accustomed to.

 

When the bearing to the new point is greater the 180°, you subtract 180° from it to get the reverse bearing. I think this is obvious if you're looking at a compass, and hard to understand as printed words.

 

Edited December 6, 2011 by palmetto

[+The Real Boudica.]

Ahh thank you. I think I was trying to make it more complicated. As you say the picture describes it much better than words.

 

I am a phone user and was trying to work out how to make a new waypoint but as you say for short distances there is no need. For longer I will try an app, there seems to be a couple that say they can do this!! GCC is one free one but has so many tools some of which I have no idea what they could possibly mean I suspect it might be a bit of overkill, another is GeoMT for 99p.

[+edscott]

I came across a multi I want to try. Stage one gives you a heading and distance to the final, but the CO highly recommends you don't just follow the compass due to terrain.

 

Normally, this would take a map and simple plotting/projection. However, my Montana allows you to project a waypoint based on heading and distance from your current location. Would using this function be considered "cheating"?

 

Thanks!

 

Many/most GPS units have waypoint projection features. Using that feature is most definitely NOT cheating.

 

Great. I saw in the logs where a couple of people mentioned having to go home, project it on a map, and return. Just wanted to make sure I was following the spirit of the hunt.

 

Maybe they are just using maps. Sometimes the next stage goes off the map or is in an area where a bit more detail is needed, so going home to prepare a new version of the exact spot is necessary.