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Cache identity theft


crouchcrew

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Recently I checked out Garmin's new cache site opencaching.com. To my surprise I saw a cache listed in the exact spot as a friend's with the exact cache description only it was listed under a different user name. Naturally, I contacted the friend to see if she had listed it on the site. She promptly replied no!

 

So, heads-up cache owners you might want to check the site to make sure your caching identity has not been stolen.

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Yes the Garmin site will archive stolen cache listings. This is an on going problem with that site since is mostly re-listed GC caches.

 

Probably happened during one of their two "hide X number of caches this month to enter a lottery for prizes" promotions. Those were a great idea. :blink: About as great an idea as a cache listing site that you still can't upload photos to after a year of existence. :ph34r:

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Probably happened during one of their two "hide X number of caches this month to enter a lottery for prizes" promotions.
Yeah, those promotions really made me appreciate Groundspeak's policy against things that pressure people to list caches they aren't prepared to maintain.
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Probably happened during one of their two "hide X number of caches this month to enter a lottery for prizes" promotions.
Yeah, those promotions really made me appreciate Groundspeak's policy against things that pressure people to list caches they aren't prepared to maintain.

That is an interesting viewpoint. Listing someone else's cache and your responsible for the maintenance?

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But since nobody actually looks at that site, it really doesn't matter in the long run.

 

how do you know that? :unsure:

 

Well, I guess "nobody" is techincally not correct....I did check to see how many caches are listed on that site for Louisiana...there are four. So, yeah.... :rolleyes:

 

However, I can rate my cache for "awesomeness" there... :laughing:

Edited by Chief301
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In an environment that has virtually no rules with no review process you have to expect this to happen. I have always described this hobby as mildly anarchistic. Over there it is complete anarchy.

 

As to no one viewing there is a good reason. A search of 100 mile radius produces 3 caches. A 1000 cache pq has a 5 mile radius.

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Recently I checked out Garmin's new cache site opencaching.com. To my surprise I saw a cache listed in the exact spot as a friend's with the exact cache description only it was listed under a different user name. Naturally, I contacted the friend to see if she had listed it on the site. She promptly replied no!

 

So, heads-up cache owners you might want to check the site to make sure your caching identity has not been stolen.

 

I belive you. Sounds like it slipped through the peer review. Many users that import their listings from this site to that site use a different user name, but some listings are simply stolen. I would like to know which one you are speaking of. I hope that I was not one of the peer reviewers that helped get it published. If my listing were stolen and listed without my permission on a competive geocache listing site, I would contact that site and demand that it be removed. I'm sure that they will side with the cache owner. The person that listed the cache on the other site may not have understood the rules and listed a cache that was not theirs?

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I have not asked her if I may disclose her name yet or not. The interesting thing was they used a different identity up my way then they did down her way, 100 miles away. Down there they used her name! She is so mad she is threatening to archive her caches. I'm trying to talk her out of it. Hopefully, she won't.

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I have not asked her if I may disclose her name yet or not. The interesting thing was they used a different identity up my way then they did down her way, 100 miles away. Down there they used her name! She is so mad she is threatening to archive her caches. I'm trying to talk her out of it. Hopefully, she won't.

 

Are people from that other site actually finding and logging these caches?

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I have not asked her if I may disclose her name yet or not. The interesting thing was they used a different identity up my way then they did down her way, 100 miles away. Down there they used her name! She is so mad she is threatening to archive her caches. I'm trying to talk her out of it. Hopefully, she won't.

 

Well, it's no secret that I'm a active member of that site. :ph34r: But there are many things I dislike about the site, and I do not support cache theft. :mad: It has happened before on that site and I am one of the complainers. Some stolen caches were archived when the owner requested. Many members that joined that site only secured their geocaching name, as I have done on other sites that I never intend to use.

I really would like to know your friends verision of what happened. Maybe they can join the conversation? :) Just so no one gets confused, I am in no way defending or supporting what takes place on the other site. I just have knowledge on the subject. Hope all works out for your friend.

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I had almost half of my Traditionals and 2 of my Chirps. But then my stalker found out I was there and logged them all as finds. Even one I archived and one disabled on GC, that I forgot to fix on OC site. Told her she can't log something that is not there. She said she can if she wanted to and proceeded to log ones I owned in other states on the same day. So after that I gave up and archived them all from that site. Now seeing this topic I will have watch it carefully.

Edited by jellis
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I am the friend crouchcrew has been writing about. Let me tell you my side of things.

 

She contacted me last night to let me know that two of my caches were published in the Mount Vernon area. Different cache user name; my cache name; my cache description; my granddaughter; my container and coordinates. To me this is theft as I never gave permission for that to happen.

 

Then out of curiosity, I looked at what was available in Olympia where I live and have placed most of my caches.

 

I found about 30 caches and all but one of them were listed as being owned by OhJoy! while on geocaching.com I am ohjoy! - without capital letters. Every one of them was a duplicate of the ones I own on geocaching.com.

 

I tried to look up OhJoy! to see what else what listed as being owned by that user. While it is possible to get a list of caches for other users to see what they have placed, it is impossible to pull up any information for OhJoy!

 

Now in addition to theft of my locations, caches and descriptions, there is what seems to me to be identity theft.

 

I feel helpless as I will explain in the next post.

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A few more things:

 

1. Why is there no way for me to see anything about the person who is using my geocaching.com user name? You can see things about others who have listed caches.

 

2. One of the caches that was stolen from me by copy and paste has since been archived by me on geocaching.com. Now an opencacher can go to that site, not find the cache, look at the cache owner's name and have no way of contacting whomever it is that is using my geocaching.com name. They will wonder why I didn't update the opencaching page. As this happens more and more frequently, or as caches are moved, disabled, and/or archived on geocaching.com, I have no control over the ones that have been posted under "my" user name. This will result in a bad reputation for me.

 

I don't know what to do. I makes me want to pull all of the caches they have listed and put notes on the pages stating that fact. I don't like people copying my material. I feel pride in my cache placements and write-ups. When someone else uses them without permission, I feel abused.

Edited by ohjoy!
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I am the friend crouchcrew has been writing about. Let me tell you my side of things.

 

She contacted me last night to let me know that two of my caches were published in the Mount Vernon area. Different cache user name; my cache name; my cache description; my granddaughter; my container and coordinates. To me this is theft as I never gave permission for that to happen.

 

Then out of curiosity, I looked at what was available in Olympia where I live and have placed most of my caches.

 

I found about 30 caches and all but one of them were listed as being owned by OhJoy! while on geocaching.com I am ohjoy! - without capital letters. Every one of them was a duplicate of the ones I own on geocaching.com.

 

I tried to look up OhJoy! to see what else what listed as being owned by that user. While it is possible to get a list of caches for other users to see what they have placed, it is impossible to pull up any information for OhJoy!

 

Now in addition to theft of my locations, caches and descriptions, there is what seems to me to be identity theft.

 

I feel helpless as I will explain in the next post.

Wow. That is absolutely unbelievable that someone would do this with your caches. I'm sorry you're going through this. I would be upset, too.

 

I don't have any advice other than to e-mail the other listing service and provide them all this information. Maybe they'll yank the account, or at least archive the caches on their site. I sure hope so.

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Doesn't really surprise me. That site itself is a rip-off. I hadn't looked at it for a while, so I just took a look. Tags? The tags are a total rip-off of geocaching's attributes. They have a new map. Looks a bit like geocaching.com's new map. I see that you can now "favorite" a cache. Their innovation is that you can do it from your field notes if you have a Garmin of the right model. Big whoop. I have had no respect for that site since it opened.

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A few more things:

 

1. Why is there no way for me to see anything about the person who is using my geocaching.com user name? You can see things about others who have listed caches.

 

2. One of the caches that was stolen from me by copy and paste has since been archived by me on geocaching.com. Now an opencacher can go to that site, not find the cache, look at the cache owner's name and have no way of contacting whomever it is that is using my geocaching.com name. They will wonder why I didn't update the opencaching page. As this happens more and more frequently, or as caches are moved, disabled, and/or archived on geocaching.com, I have no control over the ones that have been posted under "my" user name. This will result in a bad reputation for me.

 

I don't know what to do. I makes me want to pull all of the caches they have listed and put notes on the pages stating that fact. I don't like people copying my material. I feel pride in my cache placements and write-ups. When someone else uses them without permission, I feel abused.

 

i have to wonder why is all the complaining done here, what does this have to do with GC?

 

this thread should be started there, did you go to the site and open up a thread to bring it to their attention?

 

beyond informing people of what is going on, i don't see the point in asking any questions here about the running of the other site or complaining about it

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A few more things:

 

1. Why is there no way for me to see anything about the person who is using my geocaching.com user name? You can see things about others who have listed caches.

 

2. One of the caches that was stolen from me by copy and paste has since been archived by me on geocaching.com. Now an opencacher can go to that site, not find the cache, look at the cache owner's name and have no way of contacting whomever it is that is using my geocaching.com name. They will wonder why I didn't update the opencaching page. As this happens more and more frequently, or as caches are moved, disabled, and/or archived on geocaching.com, I have no control over the ones that have been posted under "my" user name. This will result in a bad reputation for me.

 

I don't know what to do. I makes me want to pull all of the caches they have listed and put notes on the pages stating that fact. I don't like people copying my material. I feel pride in my cache placements and write-ups. When someone else uses them without permission, I feel abused.

 

Sorry to see you going through this. You're a quality CO.

I hope you can get the OC people to take down the counterfeits.

 

Illegitimus non carborundum!

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A few more things:

 

1. Why is there no way for me to see anything about the person who is using my geocaching.com user name? You can see things about others who have listed caches.

 

2. One of the caches that was stolen from me by copy and paste has since been archived by me on geocaching.com. Now an opencacher can go to that site, not find the cache, look at the cache owner's name and have no way of contacting whomever it is that is using my geocaching.com name. They will wonder why I didn't update the opencaching page. As this happens more and more frequently, or as caches are moved, disabled, and/or archived on geocaching.com, I have no control over the ones that have been posted under "my" user name. This will result in a bad reputation for me.

 

I don't know what to do. I makes me want to pull all of the caches they have listed and put notes on the pages stating that fact. I don't like people copying my material. I feel pride in my cache placements and write-ups. When someone else uses them without permission, I feel abused.

 

i have to wonder why is all the complaining done here, what does this have to do with GC?

 

this thread should be started there, did you go to the site and open up a thread to bring it to their attention?

 

beyond informing people of what is going on, i don't see the point in asking any questions here about the running of the other site or complaining about it

I don't see a problem with discussing it here. After all the maggot stole the listing from this site to list on the [bleep] site. I will also to serve to notify other users of this site that there are maggots that will steal your listings to list on the [bleep] site. Starting a thread on the other site will probably be minimally effective, there are apparently few if any rules or controls on that site and most of the banned users from this site go over there. Sending a email to the web contact might be effective.

 

As for finding out information on the maggot on the other site, register a sock account and see if you can find the information.

 

Archiving the listings will at least nullify the listing on the other site. But since the caches get such a low visit rate it might literally be years before someone notices that the listings were archived on GC.com. I for one would be sorry to see you archive your listings, I haven't found them all yet :) But certainly understand your feelings, I would at least try getting the other site to archive the listings on their site first, and hopefully ban the user.

 

Let us know how it goes. And I also agree with Knowschad that there is very little to admire about the rip off site.

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I am the friend crouchcrew has been writing about. Let me tell you my side of things.

 

She contacted me last night to let me know that two of my caches were published in the Mount Vernon area. Different cache user name; my cache name; my cache description; my granddaughter; my container and coordinates. To me this is theft as I never gave permission for that to happen.

 

Then out of curiosity, I looked at what was available in Olympia where I live and have placed most of my caches.

 

I found about 30 caches and all but one of them were listed as being owned by OhJoy! while on geocaching.com I am ohjoy! - without capital letters. Every one of them was a duplicate of the ones I own on geocaching.com.

 

I tried to look up OhJoy! to see what else what listed as being owned by that user. While it is possible to get a list of caches for other users to see what they have placed, it is impossible to pull up any information for OhJoy!

 

Now in addition to theft of my locations, caches and descriptions, there is what seems to me to be identity theft.

 

I feel helpless as I will explain in the next post.

 

Looks like your account got hijacked back in the early days. That's a first for me too, not being able to access any info on the account, but the caches are there. I'm sorry that it happened, and hope it is corrected for you. :blink:

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A few more things:

 

1. Why is there no way for me to see anything about the person who is using my geocaching.com user name? You can see things about others who have listed caches.

 

2. One of the caches that was stolen from me by copy and paste has since been archived by me on geocaching.com. Now an opencacher can go to that site, not find the cache, look at the cache owner's name and have no way of contacting whomever it is that is using my geocaching.com name. They will wonder why I didn't update the opencaching page. As this happens more and more frequently, or as caches are moved, disabled, and/or archived on geocaching.com, I have no control over the ones that have been posted under "my" user name. This will result in a bad reputation for me.

 

I don't know what to do. I makes me want to pull all of the caches they have listed and put notes on the pages stating that fact. I don't like people copying my material. I feel pride in my cache placements and write-ups. When someone else uses them without permission, I feel abused.

 

i have to wonder why is all the complaining done here, what does this have to do with GC?

 

this thread should be started there, did you go to the site and open up a thread to bring it to their attention?

 

beyond informing people of what is going on, i don't see the point in asking any questions here about the running of the other site or complaining about it

 

To raise awareness of the worthlessness of that site? :ph34r:

 

Just kidding, but this is the only game in town for 99% of the world's Geocaching populace. The OP (and now the cache owner) probably don't even know there are 5 other Geocaching websites you can list caches on in North America. This is only the first one that ever had a problem with "identity theft", and of course the listings were stolen from this website. That, and I haven't had the opportunity to bash Garmin and their website in public for at least 2 weeks. :huh:

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Doesn't really surprise me. That site itself is a rip-off. I hadn't looked at it for a while, so I just took a look. Tags? The tags are a total rip-off of geocaching's attributes. They have a new map. Looks a bit like geocaching.com's new map. I see that you can now "favorite" a cache. Their innovation is that you can do it from your field notes if you have a Garmin of the right model. Big whoop. I have had no respect for that site since it opened.

 

looks a bit like geocaching.com map? heck i wish GC would implement that map here, its awesome with the list of caches on the side and just a hover on any cache in the list pops the balloon on the map, a balloon that is actually functional and stays there for me to read it, instead of having to play target shooting with my mouse to make it show up

it is exactly what we have been asking for over a year here and they keep dragging on the implementation for various reasons, apparently is not as hard to implement as they make it sound...but we have challenges here

 

i'm not sure what you mean by "tags are a ripoff" there are no icons, just text....how many ways can you say "scenic view" etc?

 

i really don't understand why people keep complaining about a site they never use and claim not to care about, what difference does it make to your geocaching life? :unsure:

Edited by t4e
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Well, I would certainly be upset, but I wouldn't archive my caches and quit.

 

I would probably do as much as possible to make the caches un-findable using information off that 'other site'.

I would also put a LARGE PRINT disclaimer on all my cache pages stating that the listing information had been pirated against my wishes and without my knowledge.

 

Let's hope someone at the 'other site' has enough sense to do the right thing and remove the unauthorized copy listings.

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Tags? The tags are a total rip-off of geocaching's attributes.

I think the free-form version of tags is an interesting idea and very different from an implementation standpoint. If you want a "nano" attribute, you don't have to petition a central authority to authorize it. You can just use it, and if it's useful to others, they may as well.

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i really don't understand why people keep complaining about a site they never use and claim not to care about, what difference does it make to your geocaching life? :unsure:

 

For myself? The rip-off of the already established Opencaching name. And Jake from Garmin going on GeocachingPodcast.com and blatantly lying about their "discussions" with the Opencaching Network about using the name. For the other 99% of people that complain about it? Probably nothing. :lol:

Edited by Mr.Yuck
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Let's hope someone at the 'other site' has enough sense to do the right thing and remove the unauthorized copy listings.

 

Once they are aware of it, they most certainly will remove the duplicate listing.

 

All listings on OpenCaching.com are copyrighted "Creative Commons" where as the listings over here are copyright to the cache owner - except for the Geocaching.com parts obviously. So, if this went in reverse the fuss would be rather different from that standpoint.

 

I have seen other silly things like 'stolen' user accounts mediated over there with minimal fuss. Of course like any other internet property if you miss the username land rush at the beginning, I don't see why you should expect to 'reclaim' your username a year later just because you used it on a different site.

 

What I have seen in the peer review process on OC.com is that many people are aware of cross-listed caches and they will get voted down dramatically when it's a copy and the username doesn't match. Sorry this one got through but crap happens. Contact the OC.com people and they'll work it out for you, I suggest mentioning the word "copyright" in your request as the listing copy is just that, a copyright issue.

 

As for someone listing your specific cache on the site two points:

 

1) Cross listed caches are supposed to be identified when you list them. Presumably by the actual owner. Again though it's pretty hard to tell right off the bat that the person posting on OC.com is not, in fact the GC.com CO, since the OC.com person may have missed the land rush and had to setup a new account of their own. Make it clear to the OC.com administrators that did not happen for the caches mentioned in this thread.

 

When listing a cache on the OC.com site, you have a check box at the bottom where you identify the cache is listed on another site

 

2) Contrary to the complaining in this thread, OC.com is not built up solely with the idea of stealing cache listings or cross posting all of them. In fact, it's a guideline violation to put your cache too close to one that's listed on a competing site. But, since it's a peer review system it is presumably easier to do this.

 

From the Guidelines at OC.com:

 

Don’t oversaturate an area

Caches should be placed at least 0.1 miles from other geocaches on OpenCaching.com. If there are geocaches in the area that aren’t listed on OpenCaching.com, keep your cache far enough away that people are unlikely to confuse the two.

In some sensitive ecosystems, caches might need to be further spread apart than these guidelines.

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Doesn't really surprise me. That site itself is a rip-off. I hadn't looked at it for a while, so I just took a look. Tags? The tags are a total rip-off of geocaching's attributes. They have a new map. Looks a bit like geocaching.com's new map. I see that you can now "favorite" a cache. Their innovation is that you can do it from your field notes if you have a Garmin of the right model. Big whoop. I have had no respect for that site since it opened.

i'm not sure what you mean by "tags are a ripoff" there are no icons, just text....how many ways can you say "scenic view" etc?

 

OK... you've got me there... I just looked and see that the tags are freeform. I made an assumption that they were selected from a canned list of choices. Nevertheless, you don't have to look very hard to see entire strings of text that were lifted right off of this site. Almost the entire cache submission form is lifted from geocaching.com. But this thread isn't about bashing the site, so I will drop this now.

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Separate entries for separate topics:

 

Topic 1. Contact with opencaching and the cacher who used my caches in Mount Vernon.

 

I have written three separate messages to opencaching and have not yet received a response. However, it is a holiday weekend, so I will wait until Monday before trying again.

 

I could find no way of directly contacting the Mount Vernon cacher, so posted a note on one of those caches in hopes that it would get to him/her.

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Topic 2: Use of the name OhJoy!

 

I don't own the name and didn't know there were other sites where I should go and list my name to prevent others from using it.

 

It is a bit different as on geocaching.com I have no capital letters in my name.

 

My problem with the use of my geocaching name on opencaching is that the person using it did so only to list my geocaching caches on the opencaching site. That seems a bit deliberate to me whatever their reason was for doing that.

 

Plus, I can find no way to get to additional information for OhJoy! like I can do for other opencachers.

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Topic 3: My reputation

 

A few months ago I archived one of my caches. Now the same cache, listed under an identical user name, is still active in opencaching. I know there is no cache there as I removed it.

 

While browsing to see some of my other caches listed on opencaching, I noticed that there was a message about one of them needing maintenance.

 

Does the opencaching OhJoy! even know that this needs maintenance? Will they perform the needed repairs? Will they contact me and let me know? Do they even know where the cache is and what it is?

 

Why haven't they archived the one that I archived? I can find no way to contact them.

 

Meanwhile, someone could easily assume we are the same person and believe I am careless.

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Topic #4: Forums

 

I did create an account on opencaching so that I could post messages on the pirated caches. It is my first account with them. I tried to get on their forums. However, I didn't succeed, so need to try again.

 

I added a message to this forum last night when asked to share my experience so far with opencaching. (I rarely go to the forums as I don't enjoy controversy.)

 

However - this link and my posts have served a good purpose in that someone else posted a link to this forum on the opencaching forum and I have received a response from the opencaching NW representative stating that he/she will work with me.

 

I will communitcate with that person and keep you posted as things develop.

 

My thanks to Manville Possum Hunters for linking this thread to their thread - it got results.

Edited by ohjoy!
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I am the OpenCaching Ambassador for the Pacific Northwest, and as soon as this issue was brought to my attention this morning, I started a process to resolve it. Being a holiday weekend, I do not expect any results before Monday, but I do think we will have this situation resolved by weeks end. Thank you for your patience.

 

atlas cached

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I am the OpenCaching Ambassador for the Pacific Northwest, and as soon as this issue was brought to my attention this morning, I started a process to resolve it. Being a holiday weekend, I do not expect any results before Monday, but I do think we will have this situation resolved by weeks end. Thank you for your patience.

 

atlas cached

 

In the future, how are people supposed to know who to contact in similar situations? It isn't so easy finding that information on their website.

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I am the OpenCaching Ambassador for the Pacific Northwest, and as soon as this issue was brought to my attention this morning, I started a process to resolve it. Being a holiday weekend, I do not expect any results before Monday, but I do think we will have this situation resolved by weeks end. Thank you for your patience.

 

atlas cached

Be sure and tell them it was me that snicthed. :ph34r: Many of us that use that site are geocachers that learned the hobby here and we just use more than one site. I enjoy Waymarking also. I feel it is wrong to steal another users work and post it on another site as the work of another. In Waymarking I learned how to use links as reference to information, but also some of the work is my words and my work. Just like with EarthCaches listed here and approved by GSA. I don't want my work stolen and listed on another site and protected by a law of commons as the work of another. It just ain't right.

 

~MPH:)>

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I am the OpenCaching Ambassador for the Pacific Northwest, and as soon as this issue was brought to my attention this morning, I started a process to resolve it. Being a holiday weekend, I do not expect any results before Monday, but I do think we will have this situation resolved by weeks end. Thank you for your patience.

 

atlas cached

 

In the future, how are people supposed to know who to contact in similar situations? It isn't so easy finding that information on their website.

 

Generally speaking, you can send any questions you have to geocaching@opencaching.com and they will see to it the proper people get the information.

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wth did my post go?

i thought posts never get deleted unless there's special circumstances

 

do i need to repeat it all again?

Half your post was off topic and ignored my prior warning. The other half violated the personal attack guideline. Moderating from a smartphone, it was easier to hide your post than to write up a suspension. PM me if you would prefer that I restore your hidden post and then suspend your posting rights for the violation. I will be happy to accommodate you.

Edited by Keystone
corrected smartphone typo
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