ARCHIVED CACHES

[+thehoomer]

We have walked considerable distances to retrieve caches which we have archived but so we should, we flippin put them there in the first place. We could no more leave a Tupperware box in a tree, than tip a whole bin bag of rubbish from the car window.

 

Not sure if anyone on here remembers but we used to have a series entitled, 'Route Canal'? We spent the whole of Boxing Day 2007, collecting the containers we had archived. We have recently spent valuable time, collecting containers (locally) of archived or dead caches belonging to now, inactive cachers. Geo litter being left in the countryside forever is not acceptable to us, as a bi-product of this game. We have stumbled upon loads of (allegedly) removed caches and it saddens us that caches aren't removed with the same gusto as they are placed. We aren't perfect cachers (is anyone?) but we would like to think that we do our bit for the whole of the game. Are we alone in our care for our Geocaching environment or do others take similar action?

[+pklong]

We have walked considerable distances to retrieve caches which we have archived but so we should, we flippin put them there in the first place. We could no more leave a Tupperware box in a tree, than tip a whole bin bag of rubbish from the car window.

 

Not sure if anyone on here remembers but we used to have a series entitled, 'Route Canal'? We spent the whole of Boxing Day 2007, collecting the containers we had archived. We have recently spent valuable time, collecting containers (locally) of archived or dead caches belonging to now, inactive cachers. Geo litter being left in the countryside forever is not acceptable to us, as a bi-product of this game. We have stumbled upon loads of (allegedly) removed caches and it saddens us that caches aren't removed with the same gusto as they are placed. We aren't perfect cachers (is anyone?) but we would like to think that we do our bit for the whole of the game. Are we alone in our care for our Geocaching environment or do others take similar action?

 

I have seen logs from Cachers where they have been out and removed others archived caches so you are not alone. An activity that should be encouraged unless of course the cache has been archived because searching for it has caused problems, or because searching for it would cause problems.

 

I suspect what happens is someone looses interest in caching and stops watching their caches, the caches get muggled or broken, end up being archived and because no one is looking after them any more end up as Geo-litter.

 

There is also the possibility that the cache has been moved so the cache owner couldn't find it anymore, or the area has become too overgrown at some point for the cache owner to reach the cache.

 

Philip

 

Philip

 

Philip

[team tisri]

I wonder if lot of the time people figure that by the time their cache has been archived for non-maintenance it's going to have been muggled anyway. Which is a shame, when a number of them get archived for non-maintenance because they are still there but just in a really unpleasant state.

[+Maple Leaf]

A while ago, I happen to look back at one of my previous finds, only to see that it had been archived a few months earlier as some of the micro stages of the long multi had gone missing and therefore people hadn't been able to find the final (the cache owner hadn't responded to the reviewer messages)

 

As I had left a geocoin in the cache, I decided to go and see if the final was still there and rescue it when I was next in that area. It was actually 11mths after I found it (and 4mths after it was archived) when I visited. The final cache itself was still in place (and had been for over 6 years) and in good condition with a dry log book. As it was a large ammo can, I hoped that the owner of the cache would either collect it or make it a traditional cache.

 

That was over 2 years ago and I often wonder if it is still there as nothing more has been written on the archived cache page - the owner is still a cacher. Maybe I should revisit again and rescue the ammo box

[+thehoomer]

I raised this because we came across a cache yesterday, which had been stated by the CO as removed/archived since May yet has continued to be found. This has got me thinking....

 

If another cacher tried to place another cache at the same location as an archived (but still very much active) one, what happens to the 0.10m distance rule? I understand why archived caches have to stay loggable for a certain length of time but is there, or should there be, a cut-off period for logging an archived cache?

[+Pharisee]

.............when a number of them get archived for non-maintenance because they are still there but just in a really unpleasant state.

 

Invariably that's because they've be 'forcibly' archived by a Reviewer, usually as a result of a 'Needs Archived' log from a previous finder. Once they've been archived, they are effectively 'off the grid' as far a future PQs or on-line searches are concerned so the box just stays where it was and becomes geolitter. I think it's unacceptable but what can be done? The reviewers aren't going to go out and collect it, the owner can't be bothered to maintain it so it's unlikely that they will remove it. That just leaves the cacher who posted the Needs Archived log... is it now his/her responsibility to go and remove it.... I suspect most will say 'No', so the geolitter builds up.

Maybe instead of just archiving a cache which is still in place but obviously not being maintained, the Reviewers should put a note on the cache page asking the next person/team that searches for it to actually remove the cache. Once that has been done, then archive it.

[+Unobtainium]

Whilst I wouldn't want to see one discarded cache left in the countryside, there is a word of caution to be said. Just because the cache is not listed on this site, there are (shock / horror) other sites which it may be listed on. Even if it is not listed elsewhere, the cache is still owned by the owner and anyone recycling the cache could be accused of theft.

[+Bear and Ragged]

It's the short attention span generation we live in.

 

Register and find your first cache yesterday, want to hide your first cache today, off on the next new 'interesting thing' tomorrow..

 

Maybe archived caches should be locked for logging after a month?

A month is a reasonable time for cachers to be able to log an archived cache, and after that time appeal it through Groundspeak with a reason for the late log?

[Neath Worthies]

Whilst I wouldn't want to see one discarded cache left in the countryside, there is a word of caution to be said. Just because the cache is not listed on this site, there are (shock / horror) other sites which it may be listed on. Even if it is not listed elsewhere, the cache is still owned by the owner and anyone recycling the cache could be accused of theft.

Absolutely! Just because it no longer is listed on Groundspeak doesn't mean it isn't active elsewhere. Be very careful before you take it upon yourselves to start removing someone else's property.

[+Amberel]

Whilst I wouldn't want to see one discarded cache left in the countryside, there is a word of caution to be said. Just because the cache is not listed on this site, there are (shock / horror) other sites which it may be listed on.

Thanks for making that extremely valid point. Quite a lot of mine fall into that category!

 

If anyone wants to check if a cache is listed elsewhere, feel free to check with me. I am very active on opencaching.org.uk, TerraCaching and NaviCaching, and rather less so on Garmin OpenCaching. That covers the great majority of publicly listed caches. There may also be a very small number listed privately or to closed groups, but these are unlikely ever to have been listed on geocaching.com.

 

Rgds, Andy

Edited November 20, 2011 by Amberel

[+thehoomer]

Whilst I wouldn't want to see one discarded cache left in the countryside, there is a word of caution to be said. Just because the cache is not listed on this site, there are (shock / horror) other sites which it may be listed on.

Thanks for making that extremely valid point. Quite a lot of mine fall into that category!

 

If anyone wants to check if a cache is listed elsewhere, feel free to check with me. I am very active on opencaching.org.uk, TerraCaching and NaviCaching, and rather less so on Garmin OpenCaching. That covers the great majority of publicly listed caches. There may also be a very small number listed privately or to closed groups, but these are unlikely ever to have been listed on geocaching.com.

 

Rgds, Andy

That hadn't even occurred to me so thanks for raising this. However, the caches we collected were very local to us and had been set by cachers who we had been in contact with at some point in their short period of interest. The 2 cachers in question have been contacted several times to see if they want their containers back but have never replied. A very good point though and one which I will certainly bear in mind in the future.

Edited to add...

I know it wouldn't make any difference in the eyes of the law but I am willing to take the chance of being accused of theft of 2 broken margarine/ice-cream tubs, full of mouldy wet calling cards & unidentifiable bits of broken plastic. My reasoning m'lud.....The Country Code .

Edited November 20, 2011 by thehoomer

[+keehotee]

There may also be a very small number listed privately or to closed groups, but these are unlikely ever to have been listed on geocaching.com.

 

 

There are, indeed, at least two "closed" caching sites that I know of that a GS archived cache might appear on.

But - in all honesty - neither of them are likely to host a cache you might stumble upon, or that has been previously listed on a public site.

[+martlakes]

If someone is still keeping the cache listed on another site, then they should have the courtesy to de-list it on GC.com especially if they have got emails/logs saying it needs maintenance and/or will be archived. All it takes is a simple note/response and then de-list it. If they don't they only have themselves to blame if someone goes and clears up what appears to be an abandoned cache.

As for the 'theft' idea, oh pleeeeease!

Go on, take me to court! I double dare you!

 

The reviewers do now include a note asking people to remove their cache or to contact the reviewers, who may be able to get it removed, esp if it has trackables in. This was a good move by the reviewers. I do wonder if it actually works since most caches which are reviewer archived are cos the owner has disappeared. I've said before that GC should develop some system so that local cachers can play a role in clearing abandoned and archived caches, as they are often in danger of just being forgotten and become litter.

[+Amberel]

If someone is still keeping the cache listed on another site, then they should have the courtesy to de-list it on GC.com especially if they have got emails/logs saying it needs maintenance and/or will be archived.

We were talking about caches that had already been archived on gc, weren't we?

 

Rgds, Andy

[Neath Worthies]

If someone is still keeping the cache listed on another site, then they should have the courtesy to de-list it on GC.com

A couple of problems come to mind with this. First off many people use GSAK as their offline database and when a cache is archived (I assume that's what you mean when you say "de-list") it stays in their database. Also the details are never updated. The alternative is to say in your description that the cache is now listed on xxxxcace.org.uk or xxxxxcache.com or whatever. But that is not allowed by Groundspeak who won't let any mention of an alternative listing site in your cache description.

 

So there is no way to let people know.

[+Happy Humphrey]

I think that the solution in the case of a cache being archived on gc.com but listed elsewhere does lie with the cache owner. He could at least post a note to say that the cache is being maintained but is listed on another site (it's unnecessary to mention which one).

Here's one that I found a couple of years ago. It was archived forcibly (in 2001, I think). You can see from the logs that it's still a popular cache ten years later and is still being maintained by the cache owner.

 

My opinion is that this is rare, and more likely is that a reviewer has not received a response after the time limit so has archived the listing. I'm not sure what the time limit is, but have a feeling that it's pretty short (can someone confirm?). I've even had one of mine threatened with archiving because of several consecutive DNF's (yes, it was in place and exactly where GPS indicated), so it's not uncommon.

 

It's likely in these circumstances that many will simply give up with the cache and find it hard to summon the enthusiasm to go out and collect the remnants. Particularly if geocaching is somewhere near the bottom of the list of priorities.

[+squirtchy]

We have walked considerable distances to retrieve caches which we have archived but so we should, we flippin put them there in the first place. We could no more leave a Tupperware box in a tree, than tip a whole bin bag of rubbish from the car window.

 

Not sure if anyone on here remembers but we used to have a series entitled, 'Route Canal'? We spent the whole of Boxing Day 2007, collecting the containers we had archived. We have recently spent valuable time, collecting containers (locally) of archived or dead caches belonging to now, inactive cachers. Geo litter being left in the countryside forever is not acceptable to us, as a bi-product of this game. We have stumbled upon loads of (allegedly) removed caches and it saddens us that caches aren't removed with the same gusto as they are placed. We aren't perfect cachers (is anyone?) but we would like to think that we do our bit for the whole of the game. Are we alone in our care for our Geocaching environment or do others take similar action?

 

I went out for a walk with the family once recapping my steps of an old small trail which had since been archived. The caches ad been disabled for some time and archived for a little while before I did the walk, Out of curiosity I looked in all the places i remember there being caches, and managed to grab myself 6 nice containers. I do think that when we archive a cache, it should be retrieved, but now you have brought this issue to light, I may start going out and seeing if archived caches are actually still in place. Unless of course there was 10 or so DNF's on it which was the cause of it being archived.

[+thehoomer]

We have walked considerable distances to retrieve caches which we have archived but so we should, we flippin put them there in the first place. We could no more leave a Tupperware box in a tree, than tip a whole bin bag of rubbish from the car window.

 

Not sure if anyone on here remembers but we used to have a series entitled, 'Route Canal'? We spent the whole of Boxing Day 2007, collecting the containers we had archived. We have recently spent valuable time, collecting containers (locally) of archived or dead caches belonging to now, inactive cachers. Geo litter being left in the countryside forever is not acceptable to us, as a bi-product of this game. We have stumbled upon loads of (allegedly) removed caches and it saddens us that caches aren't removed with the same gusto as they are placed. We aren't perfect cachers (is anyone?) but we would like to think that we do our bit for the whole of the game. Are we alone in our care for our Geocaching environment or do others take similar action?

 

I went out for a walk with the family once recapping my steps of an old small trail which had since been archived. The caches ad been disabled for some time and archived for a little while before I did the walk, Out of curiosity I looked in all the places i remember there being caches, and managed to grab myself 6 nice containers. I do think that when we archive a cache, it should be retrieved, but now you have brought this issue to light, I may start going out and seeing if archived caches are actually still in place. Unless of course there was 10 or so DNF's on it which was the cause of it being archived.

I think you may have misunderstood my reasoning squirtchy. My objective for collecting the containers was because they were littering the countryside and not in any way, to avail myself of some free Tupperware (if you saw them, you would know I didn't enroll in this activity for material gain). As others have pointed out, we need to do a little more research before we take it upon ourselves to remove (seemingly) inactive caches from the countryside. In fairness though, I think the chances of the caches I retrieve being listed on another site are svelte at best.

[+squirtchy]

We have walked considerable distances to retrieve caches which we have archived but so we should, we flippin put them there in the first place. We could no more leave a Tupperware box in a tree, than tip a whole bin bag of rubbish from the car window.

 

Not sure if anyone on here remembers but we used to have a series entitled, 'Route Canal'? We spent the whole of Boxing Day 2007, collecting the containers we had archived. We have recently spent valuable time, collecting containers (locally) of archived or dead caches belonging to now, inactive cachers. Geo litter being left in the countryside forever is not acceptable to us, as a bi-product of this game. We have stumbled upon loads of (allegedly) removed caches and it saddens us that caches aren't removed with the same gusto as they are placed. We aren't perfect cachers (is anyone?) but we would like to think that we do our bit for the whole of the game. Are we alone in our care for our Geocaching environment or do others take similar action?

 

I went out for a walk with the family once recapping my steps of an old small trail which had since been archived. The caches ad been disabled for some time and archived for a little while before I did the walk, Out of curiosity I looked in all the places i remember there being caches, and managed to grab myself 6 nice containers. I do think that when we archive a cache, it should be retrieved, but now you have brought this issue to light, I may start going out and seeing if archived caches are actually still in place. Unless of course there was 10 or so DNF's on it which was the cause of it being archived.

I think you may have misunderstood my reasoning squirtchy. My objective for collecting the containers was because they were littering the countryside and not in any way, to avail myself of some free Tupperware (if you saw them, you would know I didn't enroll in this activity for material gain). As others have pointed out, we need to do a little more research before we take it upon ourselves to remove (seemingly) inactive caches from the countryside. In fairness though, I think the chances of the caches I retrieve being listed on another site are svelte at best.

 

Oh i did know for a fact that the caches had been archived because the owner had given up on geocaching all together over abuse they/he/she were getting from other users, i could see form logs it hadn't been found since 09, so me taking the container did more good than harm!

[+Delta68]

In the early days it wasn't possible to temp disable a cache and caches used to get archived virtually on a whim by reviewers even after just one DNF!

 

I have a list caches which were archived in this manner and it would be great to find out if they are actually still there or not.

So far I have looked for one...

 

...and it wasn't!

 

 

Mark

[+Mad H@ter]

Sadly some caches that are almost certainly still in place still get archived by reviewers if they do not get a response to their warning as can be seen here

[+currykev]

I've archived many of my caches over time.

Most of the time I actually go and take the container away. Sometimes I leave the container exactly where it lay. I may in future resurrect said cache for new finds. I may in future collect it. I may in future hope some cache hound decides to see if it IS still there. It's not litter. An empty beer can is litter. An old fridge dumped is litter. Some one may muggle it. I'm A Cacheholic. But I know where ALL my caches, young and old are/were. I may spend Boxing Day spending time collecting my old archived containers. Or I may go find new ones.

But most probably I'll be working.

[+Happy Humphrey]

Sadly some caches that are almost certainly still in place still get archived by reviewers if they do not get a response to their warning as can be seen here

I've seen a few where the reviewer action appears to be rather hasty, and that looks like another example. Anyone know why that is? Is it a Groundspeak policy - if so, what are the guidelines?

I'd have thought that a "Needs archiving" log would have to be posted first, and then the reviewer should check recent logs and see how likely it is that the cache has gone missing. If this appears to be likely, then disable the cache for six weeks or so. If no action has been taken, and no contact from the cache owner in that time; then post a note that the cache is flagged for archiving in another week, before finally archiving the listing.

[+Amberel]

Sadly some caches that are almost certainly still in place still get archived by reviewers if they do not get a response to their warning as can be seen here

I've seen a few where the reviewer action appears to be rather hasty, and that looks like another example. Anyone know why that is? Is it a Groundspeak policy - if so, what are the guidelines?

I'd have thought that a "Needs archiving" log would have to be posted first, and then the reviewer should check recent logs and see how likely it is that the cache has gone missing. If this appears to be likely, then disable the cache for six weeks or so. If no action has been taken, and no contact from the cache owner in that time; then post a note that the cache is flagged for archiving in another week, before finally archiving the listing.

At first glance it seems a bit on the short side, but when you see that the cache owner hasn't logged on for well over a year it changes things and seems perfectly reasonable to me. But then I happen to believe every cache without an active and concientious owner should be archived.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+mellers]

Sadly some caches that are almost certainly still in place still get archived by reviewers if they do not get a response to their warning as can be seen here

I've seen a few where the reviewer action appears to be rather hasty, and that looks like another example. Anyone know why that is? Is it a Groundspeak policy - if so, what are the guidelines?

I'd have thought that a "Needs archiving" log would have to be posted first, and then the reviewer should check recent logs and see how likely it is that the cache has gone missing. If this appears to be likely, then disable the cache for six weeks or so. If no action has been taken, and no contact from the cache owner in that time; then post a note that the cache is flagged for archiving in another week, before finally archiving the listing.

At first glance it seems a bit on the short side, but when you see that the cache owner hasn't logged on for well over a year it changes things and seems perfectly reasonable to me. But then I happen to believe every cache without an active and concientious owner should be archived.

 

Rgds, Andy

Have to agree with Andy here. I found a cache which had been archived only 2 days before (but which was still active on my pocket query). When I wrote to the archiving reviewer to bring it to his attention (that it was still there), he explained that simply just being there wasn't enough. A cache has to have the capacity to be maintained by the CO to be an active cache and this CO hasn't responded to any of the previous DNFs or the gentle warning from Groundspeak. I can see now that if they're not going to watch the cache listing, how can they possibly maintain it? Maintaining the cache is part of the rules. Any unmaintained cache doesn't have much of a future anyway, so I think the decision to archive was fair.