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chenks

[FEATURE] v4.5.7 and Bing removal

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Thanks for making the iphone app a bit less useable!

The google maps integration is poor so with the removal of Bing it makes the app very frustrating.

 

You lose the "blue dot" and line to the cache if you happen to switch maps. The only way to get it back is to leave the maps completely and re-navigate to the cache.

 

I assume the removal of Bing is a money issue, however as you already get money from me via being a Premium member AND paying for the paid version of the app I sincerely hope you won't have the audacity to attempt to extract even more money to pay for the Bing integration or the improvement of Google support.

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As per the 4.5.7 update description: "Temporarily removed Bing maps from available mapping options due to a new licensing policy introduced by the map provider."

 

Chenks, I couldn't get mine to replicate what yours is doing. I switched from OpenStreetMaps to Google Street (while in map view) and still had the blue current location dot. The line to the cache was there, although with OpenStreet it's a series of small arrows in motion towards the cache and with Google it's a solid red line, but they were still visible without having to leave the maps & re-navigate.

 

I sure hope this doesn't last long. We can still use Google maps, but Google does not allow their maps to be saved to the Geocaching app's Saved List, which is a feature I use nearly every time I cache. I don't care for the OpenStreetMaps and they don't even offer a satellite view. Until this is resolved, I downgraded back to 4.5.6 and have Bing maps again.

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As per the 4.5.7 update description: "Temporarily removed Bing maps from available mapping options due to a new licensing policy introduced by the map provider."

 

Chenks, I couldn't get mine to replicate what yours is doing. I switched from OpenStreetMaps to Google Street (while in map view) and still had the blue current location dot. The line to the cache was there, although with OpenStreet it's a series of small arrows in motion towards the cache and with Google it's a solid red line, but they were still visible without having to leave the maps & re-navigate.

 

this had been discussed in the previous feedback system (most of the valuable discussion seemed to have been lost).

this is easily replicated - start in topographic map, blue dot and line showing all ok.

switch to street map (google street), blue dot and line disappear - only cache location pin shows.

switch back to topographic map - blue dot and line shows fine.

switch back to street map (google street), blue dot and line disappear - only cache location pin shows.

choose back to get to main cache page

hit navigate to cache

starts in google street map view - blue dot and line show up

switch to topographic map - blue dot and better arrowed line show up

switch back to google street map view - blue dot and line missing again

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OK, now I'm able to see it. It only happens when you switch back & forth between Topo and Google street. If you go from Topo to Bing street, it's fine. But obviously if you upgrade to 4.5.7, you won't have Bing street for the time being. Like I said, downgrading to 4.5.6 works as a workaround (for now). Let's hope this licensing issue is resolved quickly because this affects millions of cachers who only use smartphones to cache and doing something to the app that makes it a lesser experience isn't going to go over well.

Edited by TL&MinBHIL

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this had been discussed in the previous feedback system (most of the valuable discussion seemed to have been lost).

this is easily replicated - start in topographic map, blue dot and line showing all ok.

switch to street map (google street), blue dot and line disappear - only cache location pin shows.

switch back to topographic map - blue dot and line shows fine.

switch back to street map (google street), blue dot and line disappear - only cache location pin shows.

choose back to get to main cache page

hit navigate to cache

starts in google street map view - blue dot and line show up

switch to topographic map - blue dot and better arrowed line show up

switch back to google street map view - blue dot and line missing again

 

Yes. I complained about this on the feedback forums. Yes we have no idea what the kept from those forums. Nobody even responded to any of the threads for the past month that they were up...

 

This is 100% reproducible. And the only fix is to back out and re-navigate. It's a pain indeed.

 

Lots of issues between street and topo maps actually..

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this had been discussed in the previous feedback system (most of the valuable discussion seemed to have been lost).

this is easily replicated - start in topographic map, blue dot and line showing all ok.

switch to street map (google street), blue dot and line disappear - only cache location pin shows.

switch back to topographic map - blue dot and line shows fine.

switch back to street map (google street), blue dot and line disappear - only cache location pin shows.

choose back to get to main cache page

hit navigate to cache

starts in google street map view - blue dot and line show up

switch to topographic map - blue dot and better arrowed line show up

switch back to google street map view - blue dot and line missing again

 

Yes. I complained about this on the feedback forums. Yes we have no idea what the kept from those forums. Nobody even responded to any of the threads for the past month that they were up...

 

This is 100% reproducible. And the only fix is to back out and re-navigate. It's a pain indeed.

 

Lots of issues between street and topo maps actually..

 

Are there any issues with keeping the v4.5.6 at the moment? We were just heading on a trip and will not update, because Bing maps are much more valuable on the phone than the Google maps.

 

Also Bing maps has county lines...important while driving and trying to get counties!

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You have GOT to be kidding me... just when I was ready to chuck the app because of it's complete uselessness, they go and make it EVEN WORSE by removing MORE features!

 

First they broke Google Maps, then removed "My Finds" from the pocket queries download feature, then limited searches to 10 miles (corrected later to a not-much-better 30 miles), now they removed Bing maps.

 

What next? How about removing that overrated "touch screen" feature? Maybe it'd be much easier to navigate with just the volume buttons.

 

I have no use for this app now at all.

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Are there any issues with keeping the v4.5.6 at the moment? We were just heading on a trip and will not update, because Bing maps are much more valuable on the phone than the Google maps.

 

Also Bing maps has county lines...important while driving and trying to get counties!

Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but if you had read the entire thread, I said twice that Bing maps are still functional in version 4.5.6 (for now). Whether or not that changes, who knows. Maybe I was accidentally using the invisible font. :ph34r:

 

You have GOT to be kidding me... just when I was ready to chuck the app because of it's complete uselessness, they go and make it EVEN WORSE by removing MORE features!

 

First they broke Google Maps, then removed "My Finds" from the pocket queries download feature, then limited searches to 10 miles (corrected later to a not-much-better 30 miles), now they removed Bing maps.

 

What next? How about removing that overrated "touch screen" feature? Maybe it'd be much easier to navigate with just the volume buttons.

 

I have no use for this app now at all.

Like I said in my first post, the update description for 4.5.7 states Bing maps were temporarily removed...due to a new licensing policy introduced by the map provider. So for now we can't assume Groundspeak removed them just for the heck of it. Judging by their wording, Bing maps will return once the licensing issue is resolved...hopefully. If not, they should negotiate with Google to allow their maps to be saved to our Saved List. Either way, we can't be stuck with OpenStreetMaps as our only option to save.

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Like I said in my first post, the update description for 4.5.7 states Bing maps were temporarily removed...due to a new licensing policy introduced by the map provider. So for now we can't assume Groundspeak removed them just for the heck of it. Judging by their wording, Bing maps will return once the licensing issue is resolved...hopefully. If not, they should negotiate with Google to allow their maps to be saved to our Saved List. Either way, we can't be stuck with OpenStreetMaps as our only option to save.

 

we know it's temporary.... however temporary is open ended and could mean 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months, 2 years.

allowing google map tiles to be saved isn't the only thing that needs done, as currently the google maps integration is sub-standard compared to bing/openstreetmap.

 

for the record, google have also (or are about to) introduce new licensing policy also, so you may find that google also gets "temporarily" removed.

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I didn't notice this was an issue until I read this thread. I also noticed yesterday that I would periodically lose the blue dot and line to the cache. Just chalked it up as a fluke but I guess not.

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I tried using the new version of the app last night and had huge issues! When trying to use the maps to navigate is was so slow to respond. At one point is said we were 100 metres from GZ, yet we were a mere 5 metres away!! Even trying to zoom in or out with the touch screen was impossible.

I didn't realize that is was because I had always used Bing for my map.

I have reverted back to version 4.5.6 for now too, soooo much better!!

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Inadvertently updated to this version as part of a sync. How, exactly, does one roll it back to 4.5.6? Thanks!

 

--Matt

Edited by Team Van Dyk

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If I Downgrade iPhone app to 4.5.6 via iTunes, will I lose all my Saved Lists and other data/settings?

 

Also, is it just me, or does this app completely suck from a quality control standpoint? It seems to have MANY runaway CPU threads that eventually bring the app (and the phone) to its knees, not to mention draining battery furiously and causing the map not to respond. Has it always been this bad?

 

PS: TL&MinBHIL, due to the nonstandard character in your name (&), the bulletin board software bugs out when anyone tries to PM you, it says you have an invalid username. Obviously the software should never have allowed you to create a username with an & in it.

Edited by Syclone0044

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Inadvertently updated to this version as part of a sync. How, exactly, does one roll it back to 4.5.6? Thanks!

 

--Matt

Check your Recycle Bin. When you update an App, the old version usually gets dumped there. If it is, then you can continue. First, remove 4.5.7 from your phone and delete it from Apps in iTunes. Once you delete it, it will end up in the Recycle Bin along with 4.5.6, but they're labeled with their version number, so you can tell them apart.

Take the old version and move it to the Mobile Applications sub-folder within your iTunes folder. Found in Music (or My Music) - iTunes - Mobile Applications. Go back to iTunes, click File at the top, then Add File to Library. Locate 4.5.6 that you moved into the Mobile Applications folder and add it to iTunes. You'll then be able to load it onto your phone again. Hope that helps.

 

If I Downgrade iPhone app to 4.5.6 via iTunes, will I lose all my Saved Lists and other data/settings?

 

PS: TL&MinBHIL, due to the nonstandard character in your name (&), the bulletin board software bugs out when anyone tries to PM you, it says you have an invalid username. Obviously the software should never have allowed you to create a username with an & in it.

Syclone, I just tested whether or not we'd lose saved caches. I upgraded to 4.5.7, saved 5 of the nearest caches, then downgraded to 4.5.6 and yes, I did lose the 5 I saved. Results may vary between users (because it seems this app has different quirks for different people) but it's probably safe to say you would lose saved caches after downgrading.

 

In regards to my username, I was wondering why I never received PM's. Although, that just might be a good thing considering some of my opinions aren't always the most popular. B) I created our name on the fly after finding our very first cache and wanted something that included the 3 members of my family, hence the initials and "&" sign. I've been considering shortening it because it is a bit awkward. I realized that after the first time we ever met cachers in the field. They said their username and I said, We're TL&MinBHIL. I like our name, but saying it out loud got me thinking it may be time for a revision. Just never got around to it. I was always going to shorten it, but never thought about the "&" sign.

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Bing changed the way that they served up tiles and so we had a hard deadline on Friday to release a version that did not rely on Bing maps. That's why you saw a release that included nothing but that change.

 

We are in planning for 2012 and the return of Bing maps is one of the features being discussed, but there are reasons why we may not want to return them to the app. First, the new way of serving up tiles implemented by Bing means the addition of a new path for handling maps in the app and another potential source of failures in the future. Second, the new Bing licensing means no more saving of Bing map tiles for offline use.

 

If community demand is strong enough, we will discuss adding Bing back to the app.

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Bing changed the way that they served up tiles and so we had a hard deadline on Friday to release a version that did not rely on Bing maps. That's why you saw a release that included nothing but that change.

 

We are in planning for 2012 and the return of Bing maps is one of the features being discussed, but there are reasons why we may not want to return them to the app. First, the new way of serving up tiles implemented by Bing means the addition of a new path for handling maps in the app and another potential source of failures in the future. Second, the new Bing licensing means no more saving of Bing map tiles for offline use.

 

If community demand is strong enough, we will discuss adding Bing back to the app.

 

So what is the plan going forward then?

The google maps implementation as it stands right now is extremely poor with many bugs - also doesn't allow saving of tiles for offline mode.

 

When in 2012 should we expect an update? The app as it stands right now is sub-standard and is barely usable to a decent level.

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Bing changed the way that they served up tiles and so we had a hard deadline on Friday to release a version that did not rely on Bing maps. That's why you saw a release that included nothing but that change.

 

We are in planning for 2012 and the return of Bing maps is one of the features being discussed, but there are reasons why we may not want to return them to the app. First, the new way of serving up tiles implemented by Bing means the addition of a new path for handling maps in the app and another potential source of failures in the future. Second, the new Bing licensing means no more saving of Bing map tiles for offline use.

 

If community demand is strong enough, we will discuss adding Bing back to the app.

Wow, leaving us with OpenStreetMaps as the only map that can be saved...I'm dumbfounded. I don't care for OpenStreetMaps, not to mention it doesn't even have a Satellite view at all, let alone one that can be saved for offline use. I'm not going to be as harsh on the App as other users because I've found it to do quite well (up until now) but saving maps is a key function and to strip that down to next to nothing deserves the harsh criticism Groundspeak will probably get over this. Reintroducing Bing maps back to the App is one thing, but if they can't be saved, what's the use? I don't have any problems with Google maps in the App, but not being able to save them was what caused me to switch to Bing.

 

Not to sound too dramatic, but I kind of feel this is a slap in the face to smartphone cachers, especially those of us who paid $10 for your App that now has less functionality than when we paid the $10 for it. This is a big step backwards and is unacceptable. As far as I'm concerned, saving maps for offline use is vital for smartphone cachers, especially for ones (like me) who have limited data plans and use only a smartphone to cache. I'll continue to use 4.5.6 as long as it remains functional (but I have a bad feeling about that) and I'll do my best to ignore the annoying little red "1" Badge on my App Store App telling me I have an update waiting.

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Thanks for making the iphone app a bit less useable!

The google maps integration is poor so with the removal of Bing it makes the app very frustrating.

 

You lose the "blue dot" and line to the cache if you happen to switch maps. The only way to get it back is to leave the maps completely and re-navigate to the cache.

 

I assume the removal of Bing is a money issue, however as you already get money from me via being a Premium member AND paying for the paid version of the app I sincerely hope you won't have the audacity to attempt to extract even more money to pay for the Bing integration or the improvement of Google support.

 

I agree with this. Its very disappointing to upgrade an app and then end up with a very bad app. I must find out how to downgrade! Can anybody help?

Edited by aweng

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Not to sound too dramatic, but I kind of feel this is a slap in the face to smartphone cachers, especially those of us who paid $10 for your App that now has less functionality than when we paid the $10 for it. This is a big step backwards and is unacceptable.

 

You realize that that's a licensing restriction imposed by Microsoft (and Google) and outside of our ability to control, correct?

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You realize that that's a licensing restriction imposed by Microsoft (and Google) and outside of our ability to control, correct?

 

things happen outwith your control, which is acceptable.

how you deal with them is another thing, and this has been handled poorly.

 

you leave it until the last minute to push out an update that strips the functionality?

how long have you known about this required change? you could have forewarned the userbase and sought opinions on how to best handle it?

 

a company is judged on how it reacts to problems. Groundspeak always seem to chose the worst way to react to problems (specifically with the smartphone apps).

 

as i asked, what are the plans to bring functionality back to the app? and what are the timescales for this?

 

ps. I will also continue to use v.4.5.6 as this offers the functionality the i paid for. I assume this puts you in violation of the Microsofts new licensing terms.

Edited by chenks

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as i asked, what are the plans to bring functionality back to the app? and what are the timescales for this?

 

 

I had already answered with what information we have at this time in this post.

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I had already answered with what information we have at this time in this post.

 

yeah which tells us nothing really, other than at some point in 2012 we may or may not get Bing maps back, but still with the functionality that people use removed - whether that is your fault or not it is still the situation.

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ps. I will also continue to use v.4.5.6 as this offers the functionality the i paid for. I assume this puts you in violation of the Microsofts new licensing terms.

 

Nope. However, you will find that after some time (when specifically is up to Microsoft) that you will have no Bing map functionality at all in that version.

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I had already answered with what information we have at this time in this post.

 

Excuse me, but that is just as much as saying nothing at all...

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What do you want me to say? There is no information at this time. We are in the midst of planning for 2012 and so we have not laid out any plans yet on what to do with Bing.

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What do you want me to say? There is no information at this time. We are in the midst of planning for 2012 and so we have not laid out any plans yet on what to do with Bing.

 

i think what people want to know is, what ideas are there for bringing back offline maps (via any map solution).

"planning for 2012" is very open ended, and technically could mean November 2012!

 

you have to understand that users are going to be disgruntled when features are removed from an app that they paid for (no matter who's fault it is).

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Even if we bring back Bing, we are not going to be allowed to save the map tiles offline. We are simply at the mercy of the map provider's licensing agreements.

 

We do not have this restriction with OpenStreetMaps, so those will likely be the only offline option for the immediate future.

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Even if we bring back Bing, we are not going to be allowed to save the map tiles offline. We are simply at the mercy of the map provider's licensing agreements.

 

We do not have this restriction with OpenStreetMaps, so those will likely be the only offline option for the immediate future.

 

i would whole heartily suggest bring Bing back even without offline mode, as the user experience when using Bing seems much slicker compared to using Google (even though the maps on Google are betteer compared to Bing) - as has been discussed at the top of the thread.

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things happen outwith your control, which is acceptable.

how you deal with them is another thing, and this has been handled poorly.

 

you leave it until the last minute to push out an update that strips the functionality?

how long have you known about this required change? you could have forewarned the userbase and sought opinions on how to best handle it?

 

a company is judged on how it reacts to problems. Groundspeak always seem to chose the worst way to react to problems (specifically with the smartphone apps).

 

as i asked, what are the plans to bring functionality back to the app? and what are the timescales for this?

 

ps. I will also continue to use v.4.5.6 as this offers the functionality the i paid for. I assume this puts you in violation of the Microsofts new licensing terms.

 

Chenks, I couldn't agree with you more. We do tend to get screwed over the most as smartphone users. It seems like with every 'upgrade' our app gets worse and worse.

 

At this point, I NEVER update the app until I feel out the forums first.

 

And I'll be another user who doesn't upgrade until I have to...

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I must find out how to downgrade! Can anybody help?

Please refer to my earlier post (below). But beware, as Moun10Bike has already said, Bing maps will cease to function in the old version at some point. My guess is probably sooner rather than later. So enjoy it while we can.

Check your Recycle Bin. When you update an App, the old version usually gets dumped there. If it is, then you can continue. First, remove 4.5.7 from your phone and delete it from Apps in iTunes. Once you delete it, it will end up in the Recycle Bin along with 4.5.6, but they're labeled with their version number, so you can tell them apart.

Take the old version and move it to the Mobile Applications sub-folder within your iTunes folder. Found in Music (or My Music) - iTunes - Mobile Applications. Go back to iTunes, click File at the top, then Add File to Library. Locate 4.5.6 that you moved into the Mobile Applications folder and add it to iTunes. You'll then be able to load it onto your phone again. Hope that helps.

 

You realize that that's a licensing restriction imposed by Microsoft (and Google) and outside of our ability to control, correct?

I'm not a programmer or a developer so you'll have to pardon my lack of knowledge, but is it not possible to negotiate with any of these map providers to allow their maps to be saved in the Geocaching App? Can't anything be done to get that functionality back?

 

Chenks, I couldn't agree with you more. We do tend to get screwed over the most as smartphone users. It seems like with every 'upgrade' our app gets worse and worse.

 

At this point, I NEVER update the app until I feel out the forums first.

 

And I'll be another user who doesn't upgrade until I have to...

I think we (smartphone users) have become the step-children of the Geocaching world. :rolleyes:

More & more people are turning to their smartphones to cache with. Why? Because so many people already have a smartphone, but don't have a GPSr. So the phones give so many more people access to the game without having to buy additional equipment. There are millions of us who choose not to buy a dedicated GPS unit. Millions of us who either buy the $10 Geocaching App, pay for Premium Membership, or both. We have grown to contribute a lot to this game; therefore, should be taken seriously.

Bottom line, they've taken away a big portion of a key feature. I realize their hands are tied when it comes to these licensing issues, but they also have no real plan to build the App back to what it was, at least not anytime soon. I can't tell you how disheartening this is. Especially hearing that 4.5.6 will soon lose Bing too (saw that coming though). Honestly, I'm glad I haven't paid for Premium Membership because this will more than likely have a major effect on my desire to cache and membership would be wasted. I understand if I choose to stop, that's on me, but when my only means of caching becomes this much less functional, I don't have much choice. My family & I thoroughly enjoy this hobby so I'll keep 4.5.6 as long as I can, then probably give OpenStreetMaps a try, but I haven't liked what I've seen of it so far (especially with no offline satellite view). I guess in the end it'd be nice to see GS put forth a little more effort towards such a growing section of Geocachers...or at least let us know they're on it and aim to make it right again. Merely saying they're "planning for 2012" isn't very reassuring.

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i would whole heartily suggest bring Bing back even without offline mode, as the user experience when using Bing seems much slicker compared to using Google (even though the maps on Google are betteer compared to Bing) - as has been discussed at the top of the thread.

 

I agree! Please bring back Bing maps, even without offline mode. It works so much better than Google maps. To be honest, I've never used offline mode.

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I am as disappointed as many others with this backward step having used the app to find over a thousand caches, nearly all using the Bing satellite maps for navigation. I often cache in areas with poor or zero mobile coverage so have regularly used the ability to save the maps to my phone, and this functionality was significantly improved in recent versions of the app when the bulk map download was added.

 

Clearly Groundspeak did not see this coming, or they would have not spent valuable development time on adding a bulk map download and save feature, so it is really Microsoft we have to blame. However I agree the communication could have been better - I follow the Groundspeak Twitter account and no advance warning was given on that about this.

 

Going forward, the main thing I would like is the ability to save detailed maps temporarily to allow me to navigate when out of coverage. If neither Bing or Google can now provide this, what are the other options? I have other apps with 1:25k and 1:50k UK OS maps stored on my phone (eg Memory Map) but their navigation options are poor - can Groundspeak do a deal with these to give a similar experience to many dedicated GPS units? I realise these require different agreements for different countries but at least they allow offline storage. Failing that, are there any other sat map providers moving in to fill the 'free' gap that Bing have now created?

 

As for Bing vs Google, I do prefer the integration with Bing as it is faster to react and you see more cache info when tapping on an icon, but the downside is the maps are of lower quality than Google, so having the choice of both is useful once the licencing details are sorted out.

 

So let's all try to be constructive - this is clearly now a change forced on Groundspeak and I am sure they have their dev team busily trying to find a replacement for Bing offline storage. If anyone has better ideas about other options I am sure they will be gratefully received.

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I am as disappointed as many others with this backward step having used the app to find over a thousand caches, nearly all using the Bing satellite maps for navigation. I often cache in areas with poor or zero mobile coverage so have regularly used the ability to save the maps to my phone, and this functionality was significantly improved in recent versions of the app when the bulk map download was added.

 

[snip]

 

Going forward, the main thing I would like is the ability to save detailed maps temporarily to allow me to navigate when out of coverage. If neither Bing or Google can now provide this, what are the other options? I have other apps with 1:25k and 1:50k UK OS maps stored on my phone (eg Memory Map) but their navigation options are poor - can Groundspeak do a deal with these to give a similar experience to many dedicated GPS units? I realise these require different agreements for different countries but at least they allow offline storage. Failing that, are there any other sat map providers moving in to fill the 'free' gap that Bing have now created?

 

[snip]

 

So let's all try to be constructive - this is clearly now a change forced on Groundspeak and I am sure they have their dev team busily trying to find a replacement for Bing offline storage. If anyone has better ideas about other options I am sure they will be gratefully received.

 

I suggested the "bulk" upload of offline OSM maps in the format that makes this possible on Garmin GPSr in this thread.

 

Feel free to add your support there (though I realise most posters here are mainly bemoaning the loss of offline satellite maps, which is something OSM is not able to provide).

 

Also, maybe there would even be the possibility to support offline TopoMaps (I'm not too familiar with how those work, but assume that they use the same gmapsupp.img format). I'll add that idea to my feature request.

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Even if we bring back Bing, we are not going to be allowed to save the map tiles offline. We are simply at the mercy of the map provider's licensing agreements.

 

We do not have this restriction with OpenStreetMaps, so those will likely be the only offline option for the immediate future.

 

App deleted. Great while it lasted - I was a big fan when there was still hope that it might amount to something eventually, but that dream died a little more with each update.

Maybe someday the web site will be improved enough to make it usable on a smart phone... but I'm not holding my breath.

Looks like it's back to paper and pencil.

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I just didn't upgrade To 4.5.7( I sort of assumed nobody would!). In reading this thread I see if Bing comes back the tiles will not likely be able to be saved, indeed that is unfortunate but perhaps outside of Groundspeaks control. Having said so I would encourage Groundspeak that we continue to be able to use Bing maps while connected live at least. In some instances Google provides better satellite imagery but sometimes Bing does - it is useful to be able to switch back and forth. I suspect depending on where in the world a user is sometimes one or the other would be vastly superior but definitely relying on google for the entire geocaching world is going to leave some people lacking.

 

Thanks for the chance to provide my input!

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Even if we bring back Bing, we are not going to be allowed to save the map tiles offline. We are simply at the mercy of the map provider's licensing agreements.

 

We do not have this restriction with OpenStreetMaps, so those will likely be the only offline option for the immediate future.

 

So that's where it really is, isn't it? The app will no longer be able to save satellite views of any sort, and it'll probably be "licensing agreements" that end up leaving OSM as the only saveable street map. It's ironic: we're allowed to 'stream' these tiles directly to our iphones all day long, but we're not allowed to 'save' any of them on our devices. It's like these objects are being governed by 'live performance rights' like a concert or a show.

 

I realize that Groundspeak is at the mercy of the tile providers (are there any others out there besides Google and Bing?), but it just seems that this MAJOR downgrade sort of came out of nowhere (did Bing ~suddenly~ change (or start enforcing?) its licensing terms? does Groundspeak just not have the money to pay the licensing fees?). I wish Groundspeak would be a little more forthright and open about what just happened.

 

((For very many of us, MUCH our geocaching time is spent 'out in the boonies' where there is very sketchy cellphone coverage if any.))

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Not to sound too dramatic, but I kind of feel this is a slap in the face to smartphone cachers, especially those of us who paid $10 for your App that now has less functionality than when we paid the $10 for it. This is a big step backwards and is unacceptable.

 

You realize that that's a licensing restriction imposed by Microsoft (and Google) and outside of our ability to control, correct?

 

Issuing a $ credit to app owners is not though, correct? {grin}

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Issuing a $ credit to app owners is not though, correct? {grin}

Not that it would ever happen, but I don't think it's such a ridiculous request. After all, we paid $10 for an app that is no longer worth $10. Whether it's out of their control or not, it still no longer has as many features as it once did. That's the opposite of what "Updates" are supposed to do.

 

Yahoo offer a mapping service, but it is truly ghastly.

I was thinking about Yahoo too since it's the only major player left. Actually, I use Yahoo maps quite a bit. If Yahoo allowed their tiles to be saved in the Geocaching app, I would much rather have it over OpenStreetMaps.

Edited by TL&MinBHIL

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I have found after I updated to v.7 that my accuracy is now between 15 and 50 m. As in I can be standing right at the cache and it's saying it's that far away.

Never before have I found this.

Is it the new update? Is it the removal of bing? Do I need to change my satellite from bing? I am losing much of my fun in geocaching to frustration!

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I must admit that I don't use the offline maps on a regular basis as I use the app mostly just to search for nearby caches and to have all the information with me when I go out caching. For the real search I use a Garmin device.

But it's a fact that by this update GS removes functionality that was an argument for some users to buy this app!

Whoever is responsible for the need to remove the functionality is not the consern of the users who are victim of this action.

I find it hard to believe that GS can't find an agreement with the map providers to allow offline maps. If you ask me it all comes down to one thing: $$$

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Seriously folks,

 

Look at this from a more grown up point of view:

 

1) Groundspeak is a business. They are not going to trash a source of revenue. They are having issues with some vendors and appear to be working on it.

 

2) Wanting your $10 back is silly. Even if you only used it for 6 months, you got your money's worth. It saved you from buying a GPS.

 

3) I agree wholeheartedly that the BING maps need to come back even if you cannot save them locally. I personally do not save the maps locally because if I am going to get that involved, I'll get a GPS so I am not stuck out in the woods with a device that will run down in 3 hours. :) I like using my phone because the screen is much larger and the data is up to date.

 

4) Now if you want to complain, then complain about the beta online maps. Yegads! :)

 

Let's give Groundspeak the benefit of the doubt and see where they go with this. All of the screaming, wailing and gnashing of teeth is not going to get you the results you are looking for.

 

Thanks and Happy Hunting!

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Yahoo offer a mapping service, but it is truly ghastly.

 

Particularly in Canada. The satellite view looks like someone pulled a sock over the lens.

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Seriously folks,

 

Look at this from a more grown up point of view:

 

1) Groundspeak is a business. They are not going to trash a source of revenue. They are having issues with some vendors and appear to be working on it.

 

2) Wanting your $10 back is silly. Even if you only used it for 6 months, you got your money's worth. It saved you from buying a GPS.

 

3) I agree wholeheartedly that the BING maps need to come back even if you cannot save them locally. I personally do not save the maps locally because if I am going to get that involved, I'll get a GPS so I am not stuck out in the woods with a device that will run down in 3 hours. :) I like using my phone because the screen is much larger and the data is up to date.

 

4) Now if you want to complain, then complain about the beta online maps. Yegads! :)

 

Let's give Groundspeak the benefit of the doubt and see where they go with this. All of the screaming, wailing and gnashing of teeth is not going to get you the results you are looking for.

 

Thanks and Happy Hunting!

You're right about one thing...that is, I've used the $10 app for a little over a year now so yes, it has been worth the $10. But let's take into consideration those who come along now, after the reduced functionality. Should they have to pay the same $10 for an app that is less functional than it was when the rest of us bought it? In my opinion, no they shouldn't.

 

Moun10Bike already stated that GS has no real plan of action and that chances are good that OpenStreetMaps will be the only map available for offline use. So we can sit around and wait, as you suggest, but a GS rep has already stated what's more than likely to happen. We have every right to complain.

 

And no, buying the $10 app did not save me from buying a GPS because I had no intention to buy one to begin with. Believe it or not, some of us cache solely with our smartphones and actually enjoy it. Just because you may treat yours as a secondary device doesn't mean everyone else does. Sorry to hear yours runs down in 3 hours, mine doesn't. With a little effort & planning, we've cached all day with my iPhone, many times spending a majority of the day in wooded areas.

 

Bottom line, if we have a problem with something, especially something we paid money for, there's nothing wrong with letting GS know how we feel about it. Complaining about complainers...ironic, isn't it?

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Seriously folks,

 

Look at this from a more grown up point of view:

 

1) Groundspeak is a business. They are not going to trash a source of revenue. They are having issues with some vendors and appear to be working on it.

 

2) Wanting your $10 back is silly. Even if you only used it for 6 months, you got your money's worth. It saved you from buying a GPS.

 

3) I agree wholeheartedly that the BING maps need to come back even if you cannot save them locally. I personally do not save the maps locally because if I am going to get that involved, I'll get a GPS so I am not stuck out in the woods with a device that will run down in 3 hours. :) I like using my phone because the screen is much larger and the data is up to date.

 

4) Now if you want to complain, then complain about the beta online maps. Yegads! :)

 

Let's give Groundspeak the benefit of the doubt and see where they go with this. All of the screaming, wailing and gnashing of teeth is not going to get you the results you are looking for.

 

Thanks and Happy Hunting!

You're right about one thing...that is, I've used the $10 app for a little over a year now so yes, it has been worth the $10. But let's take into consideration those who come along now, after the reduced functionality. Should they have to pay the same $10 for an app that is less functional than it was when the rest of us bought it? In my opinion, no they shouldn't.

 

Moun10Bike already stated that GS has no real plan of action and that chances are good that OpenStreetMaps will be the only map available for offline use. So we can sit around and wait, as you suggest, but a GS rep has already stated what's more than likely to happen. We have every right to complain.

 

And no, buying the $10 app did not save me from buying a GPS because I had no intention to buy one to begin with. Believe it or not, some of us cache solely with our smartphones and actually enjoy it. Just because you may treat yours as a secondary device doesn't mean everyone else does. Sorry to hear yours runs down in 3 hours, mine doesn't. With a little effort & planning, we've cached all day with my iPhone, many times spending a majority of the day in wooded areas.

 

Bottom line, if we have a problem with something, especially something we paid money for, there's nothing wrong with letting GS know how we feel about it. Complaining about complainers...ironic, isn't it?

(bolded emphasis my own...)

 

I agree 100% with everything that you said, especially the bolded part!

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A gentle reminder that the thread is about Bing maps / mapping options - not about battery life or the merits of mobile phone caching. Please keep comments focused upon the feature request. Thank you.

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Groundspeak is... having issues with some vendors and appear to be working on it.

 

"appear to be working on it"? In what way?

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out of interest, does the Android and WP7 versions also have bing maps and the ability to save map tiles removed?

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