We can finally see Alien Head from space!

[+addisonbr]

If you all want to prevent trails/marks/other things from being "visible from space", the only way to accomplish that is to remove ALL life forms... move 'em all OFF the planet ASAP.

I totally agree - it's the inevitable logical conclusion of any discussion about the environment.

 

The part that really ticks me off is that land managers NEVER seem to understand that! I'll be tearing my way through an area, and they're all "We wish you wouldn't do that," and I'm all "Why don't you just shoot all human beings into outer space if that's how you feel!" but then they just stare at me like they can't think of a response.

[+Roman!]

Time to BAN Geocaching, everywhere we leave a mark.

 

Hello parking lot caches.

 

Wouldn't that just lead to the creation of more parking lots, some perhaps even in the Nevada desert, which would have an even bigger impact?

 

Sounds like it's time to ban life.

[+The_Incredibles_]

Time to BAN Geocaching, everywhere we leave a mark.

 

Hello parking lot caches.

 

While we're at it, we should ban all roads and hiking trails. Don't want to leave a mark, eh?

[+sbell111]

What I am legally permitted to do trumps the whims of the cache owner.

Absolutely true. Respecting the wishes of non-cops is for the birds.

You get that the 'No Trespassing' sign in my example wasn't hung up by cops, right?

[+Snoogans]

Dear OP,

 

I so love reading your replies to this thread. I have received my sarcasm quotient for the day and for that I thank you. Perhaps you would go the extra mile now...

 

Who owns/maintains the land?

 

Find out the land use permissions for that area:

 

#1 Are vehicles allowed off road?

#2 Are any vehicles specifically banned? (Usually motorcycles w/out spark arresters are banned is a common boilerplate for desert areas.)

#3 Is the area habitat to a protected species? (I.E. Desert Tortoise) If yes, who/what agency manages the protected species in that vacinity?

 

Just sayin', if you want to wring your hands and gnash your teeth, you should probably be the one who does the homework so your righteous indignation can be properly served.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Snoogans

[+addisonbr]

You get that the 'No Trespassing' sign in my example wasn't hung up by cops, right?

Totally. I hate getting arrested for trespassing. The question I always ask myself when someone politely asks me to be sensitive to an environmental area is, "Could I get arrested for this?" And if the answer is "No" I always go "YEAH!!!" and do whatever my lawyer says I can get away with. It is fun.

[+sbell111]

You get that the 'No Trespassing' sign in my example wasn't hung up by cops, right?

Totally. I hate getting arrested for trespassing. The question I always ask myself when someone politely asks me to be sensitive to an environmental area is, "Could I get arrested for this?" And if the answer is "No" I always go "YEAH!!!" and do whatever my lawyer says I can get away with. It is fun.

In that case, I accept your apology.

[knowschad]

That's an alien head? All this time, I thought it was a Snoogans head!!

 

[+Snoogans]

That's an alien head? All this time, I thought it was a Snoogans head!!

 

Nah. That one is too small to contain my HUGE ego.

[+addisonbr]

Dear OP,

#1-3 - Don't know. What I know is that the cache owner politely asked that people not drive to the caches, and that the advice has been happily (for me anyway) ignored by many, many cachers.

 

Because, you know. Cool Alien Head outline.

 

In all seriousness, I'll take off my bad-mood-sarcasm-hat for a bit. I have a passionate belief that whether or not something is legal is not the same as whether or not is is cool. It may be perfectly legal to tear up the desert trying to set geocaching records, just like it may be perfectly legal to trample on foliage and otherwise thrash an area looking for a geocache anywhere else. There may be no law on the books that convicts me. But that is in many ways independent of whether or not what I'm doing is awesome.

 

The cache owner has something like 1200 (?) caches out in this area. He has endorsed driving right up to all but about 50 of them. I think it would be cool if people would respect his wishes on those 50. This cache owner is not in the anti-power trail / numbers run camp FOR SURE. But even he has said, you know what? I think we as cachers should try to treat this area with care. Could you please not drive to just these?

 

I get that there is a camp of "If it's not explicitly illegal I will do whatever I want", in addition to a camp of "This is exactly the same as the Great Wall of China." I just happen to have a different take. I may stand alone, but that's okay. It's happened before in these forums, and will probably happen again.

[+the4dirtydogs]

Time to BAN Geocaching, everywhere we leave a mark.

 

Hello parking lot caches.

 

While we're at it, we should ban all roads and hiking trails. Don't want to leave a mark, eh?

Fine with me. I have a JEEP.

[+Snoogans]

Dear OP,

#1-3 - Don't know. What I know is that the cache owner politely asked that people not drive to the caches, and that the advice has been happily (for me anyway) ignored by many, many cachers.

 

Because, you know. Cool Alien Head outline.

 

In all seriousness, I'll take off my bad-mood-sarcasm-hat for a bit. I have a passionate belief that whether or not something is legal is not the same as whether or not is is cool. It may be perfectly legal to tear up the desert trying to set geocaching records, just like it may be perfectly legal to trample on foliage and otherwise thrash an area looking for a geocache anywhere else. There may be no law on the books that convicts me. But that is in many ways independent of whether or not what I'm doing is awesome.

 

The cache owner has something like 1200 (?) caches out in this area. He has endorsed driving right up to all but about 50 of them. I think it would be cool if people would respect his wishes on those 50. This cache owner is not in the anti-power trail / numbers run camp FOR SURE. But even he has said, you know what? I think we as cachers should try to treat this area with care. Could you please not drive to just these?

 

I get that there is a camp of "If it's not explicitly illegal I will do whatever I want", in addition to a camp of "This is exactly the same as the Great Wall of China." I just happen to have a different take. I may stand alone, but that's okay. It's happened before in these forums, and will probably happen again.

 

Finally. I can respect that point of view.

 

It's the other 1200 that don't interest me much. This series is the cool part of the trail IMO.

 

If the owner is as concerned as you are then maybe he should archive that series. My guess is that he won't.

 

See my thread, "Escorted to my cache at gunpoint."

 

I had a cache that was on private property. As the CO I asked cachers to enter from the river and respect the property lines of the surrounding neighbors.

 

I gave extensive detail on how to safely get my 5/5 cache.

 

It was that cache that helped me understand that controlling geocacher behavior as a CO was like herding cats. There's always someone that will try to get a cache without getting their feet wet.

 

My guess is that offroad use is probably okay in that area or there would be some rumors of trouble. (See Outdoor Nevada Geocache #3)

 

Sadly, it doesn't matter what the CO wants or how much the community owes him as a contributor to their find count... Unless they own/control the land they should practice their cat ropin' or do a mass archive.

[4wheelin_fool]

Big deal. The marijuana plants in my backyard are visible from space, and they don't hurt the environment.

[+dfx]

... to tear up the desert ...

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is it there that can be torn up?

[+NYPaddleCacher]

That's an alien head? All this time, I thought it was a Snoogans head!!

 

 

If you would have been able to see it before it was pixelated you'd be able to tell the difference.

[jholly]

... to tear up the desert ...

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is it there that can be torn up?

The sage brush and the cattle droppings.

[knowschad]

... to tear up the desert ...

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is it there that can be torn up?

If I thought for one second that you really wanted to know, I would suggest that you take a look at this document from the USGS: http://www.dmg.gov/documents/RPT_Eco_Effects_of_Veh_Routes_in_a_Desert_Ecosystem_USGS_011604.pdf , but I suspect that your question what rhetorical.

[+skraeling]

Hey look, its visible from space:

 

Visbile from space

 

the article even says "large enough to be seen from space. ". I guess China needs to be banned now.

[+addisonbr]

the article even says "large enough to be seen from space. ". I guess China needs to be banned now.

Thanks. I will add that to the list of things that are exactly the same as geocaching:

 

- The Great Wall of China

- Nazca lines

- Great Pyramids (of Egypt, and elsewhere)

- Cities

- Chinese Military Activity *New!

[+TheLoneGrangers]

"Off-highway vehicles are one of many ways to enjoy the Southern Nevada landscape. Due to public health and environmental concerns, off-highway vehicle closures are in place for BLM managed public lands within and designated areas surrounding the Las Vegas Valley. The BLM closure includes Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area, Sloan Canyon National Conservation Area and wilderness areas. The boundaries are:

 

North Apex on I-15 or Lee Canyon on US 95

 

South Sloan Exit on I-15 or mile marker 14.5 on State Route 604

 

East National Park Services Lake Mead National Recreation Area

 

West U.S. Forest Services Spring Mountains National Recreation Area

 

Outside of the closure area, off-highway vehicles can use existing roads, trails and washes within the BLM Las Vegas Field Office managed public lands."

 

I didn't do extensive research I just googled off-road driving on BLM land in Nevada. This is of course if it is BLM land. Apparently you can not drive anywhere you please unless you are on a existing road, trail, or wash. So is the alien head in a large wash? So the question is now, that since this trail is there now, is it legal, since its now a existing trail lol

 

I have cached in Nevada, i've lived there also, and the desert area around any road or highway is filthy it seems that alot of humans like to dump thier crap out in the endless desert.

Edited November 14, 2011 by TheLoneGrangers

[+skraeling]

the article even says "large enough to be seen from space. ". I guess China needs to be banned now.

Thanks. I will add that to the list of things that are exactly the same as geocaching:

 

- The Great Wall of China

- Nazca lines

- Great Pyramids (of Egypt, and elsewhere)

- Cities

- Chinese Military Activity *New!

 

Since you are building a list, here's some more:

 

Firebird Lake

 

Intersting things in the desert- play with the zoom on this one and move the map around a bit - interesting things to see.

[+Snoogans]

Hey look, its visible from space:

 

Visbile from space

 

the article even says "large enough to be seen from space. ". I guess China needs to be banned now.

 

No no no no NO! It wasn't the Chinese military. It was Chinese college students making the world's largest game of GO. Duh.

[knowschad]

Hey look, its visible from space:

 

Visbile from space

 

the article even says "large enough to be seen from space. ". I guess China needs to be banned now.

 

No no no no NO! It wasn't the Chinese military. It was Chinese college students making the world's largest game of GO. Duh.

 

I thought it was some sort of QRCode for use in a new type of location-based game.

[+Snoogans]

... to tear up the desert ...

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is it there that can be torn up?

The sage brush and the cattle droppings.

 

Add rocks and assorted litter and my inventory would be just about complete.

 

I've cached all points of the compass in Nevada except that specific area and that's about what you find anywhere within 2 miles of a major road.

 

Regardlees of what is at your feet, Nevada has some beautiful scenery. A common trail takes away from that not one tiny bit. Ummm, except from space aparently.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Snoogans

[+addisonbr]

...off-road driving on BLM land in Nevada....

Very interesting stuff. Thanks.

[+briansnat]

I get that there is a camp of "If it's not explicitly illegal I will do whatever I want", in addition to a camp of "This is exactly the same as the Great Wall of China." I just happen to have a different take. I may stand alone, but that's okay. It's happened before in these forums, and will probably happen again.

 

You aren't alone. There are two of us. There may be a third out there somewhere

 

Time to BAN Geocaching, everywhere we leave a mark.

 

Hello parking lot caches.

 

If we keep up this kind of nonsense then that will probably be the case. Thing is that I doubt most geocachers will be laughing about it when it happens.

Edited November 15, 2011 by briansnat

[+tozainamboku]

What I am legally permitted to do trumps the whims of the cache owner.

Absolutely true. Respecting the wishes of non-cops is for the birds.

Looks like the alien head is sticking his tongue out at the spirit of geocaching.

[AZcachemeister]

I know too much about geology and nature to be too worried about a few tire tracks across the Nevada desert.

Humans have only been around for about two ticks of the geologic clock, and almost everything we have ever constructed could be easily erased in another two ticks of that clock.

 

My concern is what the land managers worldwide might make of this development.

If asked, I don't think 'What about the Great Wall of China?'(or some goofy lines in central China) is going to be an effective defense.

[+AHOLLYS]

#1 Are vehicles allowed off road?

------------Yes they are. There are dirt roads, and new dirt trails made in the area all the time

#2 Are any vehicles specifically banned? (Usually motorcycles w/out spark arresters are banned is a common boilerplate for desert areas.)

------------Nope. There are all types of trucks, suv's, Atv (horses too) that run this area. It's one of the few things the locals have to do for fun.

#3 Is the area habitat to a protected species? (I.E. Desert Tortoise) If yes, who/what agency manages the protected species in that vacinity?

------------No this area is open range for cattle. Local ranchers pay a fee to the BLM to let there cattle range for about 150 miles in (almost)any direction from Rachel,NV. Cattle is regularly creamed on the hwy (Paved rd) totalling cars.

 

Just what I know from living in the Southern NV area, before moving to Ohio in Nov 2010. I did the Alien head the night it was published. Great night hiking.

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

Great night hiking.

 

Amen.

[+t4e]

Someone please call BLM and ask them how they feel about it.

 

I really dislike it when people say, its just a desert. That kind of attitude does give geocaching a black eye.

 

what is so special about a desert?

 

if there was something special there, minerals are one possibility, you would have mines all over them

 

 

If I thought for one second that you really wanted to know, I would suggest that you take a look at this document from the USGS: http://www.dmg.gov/documents/RPT_Eco_Effects_of_Veh_Routes_in_a_Desert_Ecosystem_USGS_011604.pdf , but I suspect that your question what rhetorical.

 

please tell me that research was not funded by taxpayer's money

Edited November 15, 2011 by t4e

[+slukster]

I wouldn't even have been able to make out the markings if the dots hadn't been superimposed. I'm not sure what the big deal is.

For reference here is a pic of the area without the reference dots

[knowschad]

Someone please call BLM and ask them how they feel about it.

 

I really dislike it when people say, its just a desert. That kind of attitude does give geocaching a black eye.

 

what is so special about a desert?

 

if there was something special there, minerals are one possibility, you would have mines all over them

 

If I thought for one second that you really wanted to know, I would suggest that you take a look at this document from the USGS: http://www.dmg.gov/d...USGS_011604.pdf , but I suspect that your question what rhetorical.

 

please tell me that research was not funded by taxpayer's money

 

USGS? No... they are a totally independent, self-supported group of whackos that for some odd reason seem to care about nature.

[GOF and Bacall]

Not every weed needs government protection. Some things should be left wild and have limited access. Others should be open for off road enjoyment. Most fall someplace in between. Is there something special about this location? Something that needs to be protected from a couple of cars full of geocachers? Or is it a matter of "people don't belong in nature"?

[+briansnat]

My concern is what the land managers worldwide might make of this development.

If asked, I don't think 'What about the Great Wall of China?'(or some goofy lines in central China) is going to be an effective defense.

 

OK there's the third who gets it. We've spent 10+ years trying to sell geocaching to land managers as a low impact activity, and it usually is. This kind of shoots the whole low impact thing out of the water.

Edited November 15, 2011 by briansnat

[+CatchyCacherton]

This is the US Geological SURVEY we're talking about here, not a Bureau. There's a lot of difference when it comes to wielding governmental power within the title of the group. The way I understand it, USGS research is the science behind the decisions made by various Bureaus (like the BLM or the BofR). The USGS research is most certainly bought and paid for with revenue--and the BLM has final say on policies (law) implemented.

[+addisonbr]

My concern is what the land managers worldwide might make of this development.

If asked, I don't think 'What about the Great Wall of China?'(or some goofy lines in central China) is going to be an effective defense.

Boom. QFT.

[Clan Riffster]

I get that there is a camp of "If it's not explicitly illegal I will do whatever I want", in addition to a camp of "This is exactly the same as the Great Wall of China." I just happen to have a different take. I may stand alone, but that's okay. It's happened before in these forums, and will probably happen again.

You are not alone. Putting aside snarkiness, (one of my favorite forms of communication), it does bother me a bit when cachers, so intent on increasing their find count, and/or too lazy to hike a little while, blatantly ignore the polite request of a cache owner. No, it's not a crime. No, it's not Armageddon. But to me, at least, it does seem a little rude. Add to that the fact that they are causing visible scars to an ecologically sensitive area, and it bothers me even more. After all that, to see so many long time cachers displaying such a cavalier attitude about habitat destruction just makes me shake my head.

 

"It's not illegal, (as far as we know), so let's tear it up!"

 

"Meh. It's just the desert. Who cares?"

 

"Since someone left a big ugly pyramid in a desert in Egypt, I refuse to care about folks tearing up a desert in Nevada."

 

(sigh...)

 

And I thought it was just the numbers oriented folks who didn't give a crap about the environment.

 

Reckon I was naive... again.

[+skraeling]

Please dont interpret my "pyramids in Egypt" or the "great wall of China" as excuses that its ok to just drive willy nilly all over the desert. That was not my intentions. My intentions were to poke fun at the "it can be seen from space" that seems to pop up ever so frequently. Just about everything humans do can be seen from space - its just not a valid argument... everything can be seem from someplace. ie With the proper radar/radio frequencies, we can see things long thought buried and gone.

 

As for the alien head - the cache owners asked (nicely) that you not drive it or the mother ship either. I was there for ET1 and for ET2. That request was honored - no reason not to. Walking both of those was a nice refreshing change. It doesnt take long and you might see some wildlife. Just because its a power trail doesnt mean you have to get the most amount of caches in the least amount of time. Take time to enjoy the environment around you - its amazing what you see if you just look.

[knowschad]

I get that there is a camp of "If it's not explicitly illegal I will do whatever I want", in addition to a camp of "This is exactly the same as the Great Wall of China." I just happen to have a different take. I may stand alone, but that's okay. It's happened before in these forums, and will probably happen again.

You are not alone. Putting aside snarkiness, (one of my favorite forms of communication), it does bother me a bit when cachers, so intent on increasing their find count, and/or too lazy to hike a little while, blatantly ignore the polite request of a cache owner. No, it's not a crime. No, it's not Armageddon. But to me, at least, it does seem a little rude. Add to that the fact that they are causing visible scars to an ecologically sensitive area, and it bothers me even more. After all that, to see so many long time cachers displaying such a cavalier attitude about habitat destruction just makes me shake my head.

 

"It's not illegal, (as far as we know), so let's tear it up!"

 

"Meh. It's just the desert. Who cares?"

 

"Since someone left a big ugly pyramid in a desert in Egypt, I refuse to care about folks tearing up a desert in Nevada."

 

(sigh...)

 

And I thought it was just the numbers oriented folks who didn't give a crap about the environment.

 

Reckon I was naive... again.

 

I stand pretty much where you stand, I think. I love and want to protect nature, but not to the extent where I ban myself from enjoying her.

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

My concern is what the land managers worldwide might make of this development.

If asked, I don't think 'What about the Great Wall of China?'(or some goofy lines in central China) is going to be an effective defense.

 

OK there's the third who gets it. We've spent 10+ years trying to sell geocaching to land managers as a low impact activity, and it usually is. This kind of shoots the whole low impact thing out of the water.

 

Do you actually think that the land managers there don't know about it? Seriously? After all the flap over the nearby powertrail?

 

I walked the thing, in the dark. Wasn't that freakin' easy to follow no tire tracks around the whole thing, and I've spent some time following tire tracks in my time.

[+t4e]

Someone please call BLM and ask them how they feel about it.

 

I really dislike it when people say, its just a desert. That kind of attitude does give geocaching a black eye.

 

what is so special about a desert?

 

if there was something special there, minerals are one possibility, you would have mines all over them

 

If I thought for one second that you really wanted to know, I would suggest that you take a look at this document from the USGS: http://www.dmg.gov/d...USGS_011604.pdf , but I suspect that your question what rhetorical.

 

please tell me that research was not funded by taxpayer's money

 

USGS? No... they are a totally independent, self-supported group of whackos that for some odd reason seem to care about nature.

 

i am all for protecting our environment but some organizations seriously blow it out of proportion

 

we came across an area that was taken over by such "whackos" that went as far as patrolling the paved trail chasing off people walking their dogs

 

what's next?...they going to tell us is bad for the environment to breath?

 

I get that there is a camp of "If it's not explicitly illegal I will do whatever I want", in addition to a camp of "This is exactly the same as the Great Wall of China." I just happen to have a different take. I may stand alone, but that's okay. It's happened before in these forums, and will probably happen again.

You are not alone. Putting aside snarkiness, (one of my favorite forms of communication), it does bother me a bit when cachers, so intent on increasing their find count, and/or too lazy to hike a little while, blatantly ignore the polite request of a cache owner. No, it's not a crime. No, it's not Armageddon. But to me, at least, it does seem a little rude. Add to that the fact that they are causing visible scars to an ecologically sensitive area, and it bothers me even more. After all that, to see so many long time cachers displaying such a cavalier attitude about habitat destruction just makes me shake my head.

 

"It's not illegal, (as far as we know), so let's tear it up!"

 

"Meh. It's just the desert. Who cares?"

 

"Since someone left a big ugly pyramid in a desert in Egypt, I refuse to care about folks tearing up a desert in Nevada."

 

(sigh...)

 

And I thought it was just the numbers oriented folks who didn't give a crap about the environment.

 

Reckon I was naive... again.

 

if an area is ecologically sensitive there should be appropriate signage and there shouldn't be caches there

[knowschad]

My concern is what the land managers worldwide might make of this development.

If asked, I don't think 'What about the Great Wall of China?'(or some goofy lines in central China) is going to be an effective defense.

 

OK there's the third who gets it. We've spent 10+ years trying to sell geocaching to land managers as a low impact activity, and it usually is. This kind of shoots the whole low impact thing out of the water.

 

Do you actually think that the land managers there don't know about it? Seriously? After all the flap over the nearby powertrail?

 

I walked the thing, in the dark. Wasn't that freakin' easy to follow no tire tracks around the whole thing, and I've spent some time following tire tracks in my time.

 

I guess Brian can speak quite well for himself, but I think that he was probably seeing a bigger picture than you, and referring to land managers in general, not these particular land managers. Yes, these population and tourist-income starved people will put up with a lot... they are hungry. But move the scenario to another place and it becomes a brand new game.

[knowschad]

Someone please call BLM and ask them how they feel about it.

 

I really dislike it when people say, its just a desert. That kind of attitude does give geocaching a black eye.

 

what is so special about a desert?

 

if there was something special there, minerals are one possibility, you would have mines all over them

 

If I thought for one second that you really wanted to know, I would suggest that you take a look at this document from the USGS: http://www.dmg.gov/d...USGS_011604.pdf , but I suspect that your question what rhetorical.

 

please tell me that research was not funded by taxpayer's money

 

USGS? No... they are a totally independent, self-supported group of whackos that for some odd reason seem to care about nature.

 

i am all for protecting our environment but some organizations seriously blow it out of proportion

 

we came across an area that was taken over by such "whackos" that went as far as patrolling the paved trail chasing off people walking their dogs

 

what's next?...they going to tell us is bad for the environment to breath?

 

Hyperbole like that is what makes people get discounted as "whackos". By the way, aren't you Canadian? The "US" part of "USGS" stands for "United States".

 

 

if an area is ecologically sensitive there should be appropriate signage and there shouldn't be caches there

Uh, no, not necessarily to the signage. Treat it as ecologically sensitive by default. If you see signage that says, "Pillaging welcome", then have at it.

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

My concern is what the land managers worldwide might make of this development.

If asked, I don't think 'What about the Great Wall of China?'(or some goofy lines in central China) is going to be an effective defense.

 

OK there's the third who gets it. We've spent 10+ years trying to sell geocaching to land managers as a low impact activity, and it usually is. This kind of shoots the whole low impact thing out of the water.

 

Do you actually think that the land managers there don't know about it? Seriously? After all the flap over the nearby powertrail?

 

I walked the thing, in the dark. Wasn't that freakin' easy to follow no tire tracks around the whole thing, and I've spent some time following tire tracks in my time.

 

I guess Brian can speak quite well for himself, but I think that he was probably seeing a bigger picture than you, and referring to land managers in general, not these particular land managers. Yes, these population and tourist-income starved people will put up with a lot... they are hungry. But move the scenario to another place and it becomes a brand new game.

 

Move the scenario to another place & it's a brand new place, now ain't it?

 

Have you or Brian been there? Have you seen more than vague GE screen captures with suggestive dots?

 

Ever seen a mountaintop removal job?

[knowschad]

My concern is what the land managers worldwide might make of this development.

If asked, I don't think 'What about the Great Wall of China?'(or some goofy lines in central China) is going to be an effective defense.

 

OK there's the third who gets it. We've spent 10+ years trying to sell geocaching to land managers as a low impact activity, and it usually is. This kind of shoots the whole low impact thing out of the water.

 

Do you actually think that the land managers there don't know about it? Seriously? After all the flap over the nearby powertrail?

 

I walked the thing, in the dark. Wasn't that freakin' easy to follow no tire tracks around the whole thing, and I've spent some time following tire tracks in my time.

 

I guess Brian can speak quite well for himself, but I think that he was probably seeing a bigger picture than you, and referring to land managers in general, not these particular land managers. Yes, these population and tourist-income starved people will put up with a lot... they are hungry. But move the scenario to another place and it becomes a brand new game.

 

Move the scenario to another place & it's a brand new place, now ain't it?

 

Have you or Brian been there? Have you seen more than vague GE screen captures with suggestive dots?

 

Ever seen a mountaintop removal job?

 

I have lived in, worked in, and loved the desert, if that is any qualification. And you?

 

I think that Briansnat was indeed referring to the bigger picture, and not just this one place.

 

No. What has that got to do with this?

[+t4e]

 

Hyperbole like that is what makes people get discounted as "whackos". By the way, aren't you Canadian? The "US" part of "USGS" stands for "United States".

 

yes, i know it is a US organization, they seem to act the same no matter where they are in the world

 

if an area is ecologically sensitive there should be appropriate signage and there shouldn't be caches there

Uh, no, not necessarily to the signage. Treat it as ecologically sensitive by default. If you see signage that says, "Pillaging welcome", then have at it.

 

maybe "by default" applied in the old days when people had common sense

 

in this day and age you need to spell it out and even when you do there will still be people doing stupid things contrary to the instructions and trying to blame someone else for their own stupidity

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

My concern is what the land managers worldwide might make of this development.

If asked, I don't think 'What about the Great Wall of China?'(or some goofy lines in central China) is going to be an effective defense.

 

OK there's the third who gets it. We've spent 10+ years trying to sell geocaching to land managers as a low impact activity, and it usually is. This kind of shoots the whole low impact thing out of the water.

 

Do you actually think that the land managers there don't know about it? Seriously? After all the flap over the nearby powertrail?

 

I walked the thing, in the dark. Wasn't that freakin' easy to follow no tire tracks around the whole thing, and I've spent some time following tire tracks in my time.

 

I guess Brian can speak quite well for himself, but I think that he was probably seeing a bigger picture than you, and referring to land managers in general, not these particular land managers. Yes, these population and tourist-income starved people will put up with a lot... they are hungry. But move the scenario to another place and it becomes a brand new game.

 

Move the scenario to another place & it's a brand new place, now ain't it?

 

Have you or Brian been there? Have you seen more than vague GE screen captures with suggestive dots?

 

Ever seen a mountaintop removal job?

 

I have lived in, worked in, and loved the desert, if that is any qualification. And you?

 

I think that Briansnat was indeed referring to the bigger picture, and not just this one place.

 

No. What has that got to do with this?

 

Not as much I guess, I just walked the cache series & a bit more.

 

Brian's point seemed to be that land managers would object. I suggested that these particular land managers might just be aware and not particularly worried. I'm pretty sure there are more cattle than humans making trails there, they just aren't so organized. Doesn't take much to leave a trail, though.

 

You can most definitely see a mountaintop removal job from space.

[+Snoogans]

#1 Are vehicles allowed off road?

------------Yes they are. There are dirt roads, and new dirt trails made in the area all the time

#2 Are any vehicles specifically banned? (Usually motorcycles w/out spark arresters are banned is a common boilerplate for desert areas.)

------------Nope. There are all types of trucks, suv's, Atv (horses too) that run this area. It's one of the few things the locals have to do for fun.

#3 Is the area habitat to a protected species? (I.E. Desert Tortoise) If yes, who/what agency manages the protected species in that vacinity?

------------No this area is open range for cattle. Local ranchers pay a fee to the BLM to let there cattle range for about 150 miles in (almost)any direction from Rachel,NV. Cattle is regularly creamed on the hwy (Paved rd) totalling cars.

 

Just what I know from living in the Southern NV area, before moving to Ohio in Nov 2010. I did the Alien head the night it was published. Great night hiking.

 

Thanks. You are confirming what I already pretty much knew. It would be interesting to me if someone could dig deeper and prove this information wrong.

 

It would also be more interesting if that person was local.

 

If I had the money, I'd cover long odds against that happening.

 

And then there's this...

I wouldn't even have been able to make out the markings if the dots hadn't been superimposed. I'm not sure what the big deal is.

For reference here is a pic of the area without the reference dots

 

Haaaaa! I love it. Somewhere there is a teapot brewing a tempest.

 

What I love best about this thread is that there is soooo freakin' much of this blessed desert, ummm not too many miles from this spot, that is used for regular munitions testing, radioactive nuclear test sites, WW2 era unstable munitions storage bunkers, etc. And a buncha geocachers are worried about trails forming. Lawd Lawd. This is sooo freakin' rich. You'd think geocachers were playing whack-a-mole with endangered PNW burrowing owls out there. LOL.

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

#1 Are vehicles allowed off road?

------------Yes they are. There are dirt roads, and new dirt trails made in the area all the time

#2 Are any vehicles specifically banned? (Usually motorcycles w/out spark arresters are banned is a common boilerplate for desert areas.)

------------Nope. There are all types of trucks, suv's, Atv (horses too) that run this area. It's one of the few things the locals have to do for fun.

#3 Is the area habitat to a protected species? (I.E. Desert Tortoise) If yes, who/what agency manages the protected species in that vacinity?

------------No this area is open range for cattle. Local ranchers pay a fee to the BLM to let there cattle range for about 150 miles in (almost)any direction from Rachel,NV. Cattle is regularly creamed on the hwy (Paved rd) totalling cars.

 

Just what I know from living in the Southern NV area, before moving to Ohio in Nov 2010. I did the Alien head the night it was published. Great night hiking.

 

Thanks. You are confirming what I already pretty much knew. It would be interesting to me if someone could dig deeper and prove this information wrong.

 

It would also be more interesting if that person was local.

 

If I had the money, I'd cover long odds against that happening.

 

And then there's this...

I wouldn't even have been able to make out the markings if the dots hadn't been superimposed. I'm not sure what the big deal is.

For reference here is a pic of the area without the reference dots

 

Haaaaa! I love it. Somewhere there is a teapot brewing a tempest.

 

What I love best about this thread is that there is soooo freakin' much of this blessed desert, ummm not too many miles from this spot, that is used for regular munitions testing, radioactive nuclear test sites, WW2 era unstable munitions storage bunkers, etc. And a buncha geocachers are worried about trails forming. Lawd Lawd. This is sooo freakin' rich. You'd think geocachers were playing whack-a-mole with endangered PNW burrowing owls out there. LOL.

 

I saw somebody step on a scorpion, does that count? (It was accidental & the scorpion move after the foot lifted).