Jump to content

The Mobipocket fiasco wrapup


teamwsmf

Recommended Posts

TeamWSMF,

 

Perhaps we should leave it at the point where you obviously have your opinions and I have mine. I offered my challenge to you to come up with something that wows us. Perhaps you'll take up that challenge.

 

Perhaps you can take this vitriolic energy and expend it on something more positive, like Geocaching! I see you haven't been out since October and the weather hasn't been too bad out here in the PNW.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

You know, I haven't seen much "I Hate Jeremy" sentiment in the alt.rec.geocaching newsgroup recently (yes, I subscribe to it


 

Huh. I haven't checked it in some time. I guess even we came out of the primordial ooze. Things online have a tendency to evolve in spite of itself.

 

Hilary Rosen recently resigned. Do you think they'll hire me?

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

TeamWSMF,

Perhaps you can take this vitriolic energy and expend it on something more positive, like Geocaching! I see you haven't been out since October and the weather hasn't been too bad out here in the PNW.


 

What, and give you a break from dealing with ireate customers? Nah.

 

As for not being out geocaching recently, there are many irons in the fire for Teamwsmf. I have a years old strategy game print zine I do up ( http://countermoves.sourceforge.net) in which you have gotten some ink (all good). I raise kids, one of whom is about to place her first cache in a months or so (which might start a whole new Barbie Cahe meme). I just got thrown into a project to seed public libraries with Public Domain text /print kiosks.

 

This naive idealist is actualy busy doing naive idealist stufficon_smile.gif At 38 I have dodged the virus that turns one into a crusty oppertunist.

 

Hopefully I wont come down with that malady anytime soon, though it does seems to spreading.

 

-tomwsmf

 

----------------------------

 

 

TeamWSMF@wsmf.org

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

.....Even if Jeremy wanted to, he couldn't give you permission to republish that data, because he doesn't own the copyright on it.

 

You can of course do whatever you like with your own cache descriptions, but that's not what you're asking, is it? You're asking for the rights to _everyone else's_ hard work


 

Which brings me to the next logical step.

 

Given that each user is the creator and author of thier cache entries, would it be permissable to tag or somehow mark the caches with a CCL type license.

 

This little byte would state wether the author allows anyone to use thier cache description anywhere, anywhere but they want attribution, anywhere but with atribution and only if its posted as is with no editing allowed (ie no derviative) or if its only allowed to be used on geocaching.com

 

This would almost mesh with the Members Only idea.

 

Rough idea, but it would help folks knwo implicitly what the status and intent of each cache is.

 

Does this need a new thread?

 

-tomwsmf

 

----------------------------

 

 

TeamWSMF@wsmf.org

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by TeamWSMF:

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

.....Even if Jeremy wanted to, he couldn't give you permission to republish that data, because he doesn't own the copyright on it.

 

You can of course do whatever you like with your own cache descriptions, but that's not what you're asking, is it? You're asking for the rights to _everyone else's_ hard work


 

Which brings me to the next logical step.

 

Given that each user is the creator and author of thier cache entries, would it be permissable to tag or somehow mark the caches with a CCL type license.

 

This little byte would state wether the author allows anyone to use thier cache description anywhere, anywhere but they want attribution, anywhere but with atribution and only if its posted as is with no editing allowed (ie no derviative) or if its only allowed to be used on geocaching.com


 

One problem with that, that I see: unless you get the text from the original cache creator (rather than from geocaching.com) you're getting text that geocaching.com has modified and applied their own restrictions to the use of, regardless of the intentions of the original owner. You'd have to get that wrinkle straightened out before you could do anything with it.

 

I'm not sure what the status of something like this in a cache description would be as far as geocaching.com is concerned:

 

<!-- %License "Public Domain" %URL "http://parkrrrr.com/caches/shortwave.gpx" -->

 

The idea is that you can see (programmatically) that the cache information is in the public domain and where you can download it from, and that doesn't show up in the cache page Joe Cacher sees. Then whatever you publish is what the cache owner provided rather than what Geocaching.com provided. This information would be in the Pocket Query GPX file as well, since it's part of the cache description.

 

Jeremy, any thoughts? Is it within the scope of the Pocket Query license we agreed to to extract comments like the above and use them to build our own database?

 

warm.gif

Link to comment

It might just be me, but I can't see what the problem is. Jeremy provides us with a series of services that allow us to access cache details for our own use, some of these you pay for some you don't. The stuff you pay for helps pay for the site and provides an incentive for more work to be done.

 

Clever people like clayjar, lildevil and loads of others have built on Jeremys work to provide access to the data in most of the ways you can imagine. You don't have to use Mobipocket anymore.

 

The pluckable indexes are no longer neccesary as you can get them in other ways. Jeremy and Elias have helped the UK site have an approved data feed to provide local services to UK cachers. The attitude seems to be that if you ask for the data Geocaching.com are quite happy to make it available to you. The problem seems to be when people take without asking.

 

I say GPX is the best thing that has ever happened to this game. We are where we are - I think it is a pretty good place and the past is not within the realms of managment. Move on, get over it, enjoy the game.

 

Chris

 

Bear rescues a speciality!

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

Link to comment

While I can think of minor tweaks here and there that could make geocaching.com more pleasant[1], I'm actually pretty happy with the current state of things. There are tools we can run on our computers to convert our GPX files to a variety of formats. This is good for power users and control freaks. There are tools we can run on other people's computer to convert our GPX files to a variety of formats. This is good for the folks that don't WANT to dork with the data. The license says you can't redistribute the data (technically something like spinner might be construed as redistributing it since you're putting a copy on another machine) but if I can peek through Jeremy's tin-foil hat, I'm guessing that's not the kind of redistribution he's going to direct counsel to get excited about.

 

I said before that Mobi solved no problems for me personally, but the combination of pocket queries and GPX sure did. I've got the tools I need to have a huge amount of fun with it all.

 

[1] Go ahead. Ask. :-)

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Chris n Maria:

It might just be me, but I can't see what the problem is.


 

Seems as though someone is unhappy with the fact that he can't do just anything he wants with something someone else has created. He complains--wrongly--that once you put your information in you can't get it out without paying. He cries if he can't freely use someone else's hard work. Take a peek at his website and see the reference about public domain. He'd rather people not have rights to their own work, it seems.

 

It's plainly apparent it's nothing but the rantings of someone who thinks of himself as an intellectual and who thinks he's got something to contribute.

 

Reminds me of the cries of "don't go commercial, you'll kill it!"

 

I was looking through some old posts about Jeremy's decision about charging for some services. Of course, there were the gloom and doom predictions which have been far from coming true. Also, I get a chuckle out all of the claims that going commercial would kill the sport.

 

Well, guess what, Jeremy's site is the only one that has taken off! I find it awful absurd to criticize how Jeremy is running the site. So far, he's the only one getting it right!

 

Basically, whenever you run across someone like this it's best to just to ignore them, because they're basically nothing but hot air. Run a site a like they would want you and you'll end up like one of those other sites.

 

'Nuff said.

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by SE7EN:

Run a site a like they would want you and you'll end up like one of those _other_ sites.

'Nuff said.


 

YEa running an open data project never works...not ever...not even these..

 

http://www.wikipedia.org/

http://www.openoffice.org/

http://www.winamp.com/

http://www.gutenberg.net/

http://gnuwin.org/index.html

http://sourceforge.net

http://countermoves.sourceforge.net

 

For those who still dont get it, thats ok, seems there are more who do such that the tide will turn.

 

-tomwsmf

 

----------------------------

 

 

TeamWSMF@wsmf.org

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by TeamWSMF:

quote:
Originally posted by SE7EN:

Run a site a like they would want you and you'll end up like one of those _other_ sites.

'Nuff said.


 

YEa running an open data project never works...not ever...not even these..

 

http://www.wikipedia.org/

http://www.openoffice.org/

http://www.winamp.com/

http://www.gutenberg.net/

http://gnuwin.org/index.html

http://sourceforge.net

http://countermoves.sourceforge.net

 

For those who still dont get it, thats ok, seems there are more who do such that the tide will turn.

 

-tomwsmf

 

----------------------------

 

 

TeamWSMF@wsmf.org


 

Care to explain how those above sites allow you behind the scenes? Allow you access to their raw data? I suspect they don't. Nor should they. They have every to deliver you the data as they see fit.

 

Everything about caches that you need to know you can get to. Your major complaint is you can't get to it and use it just like you like. We can get caches on our PDAs now, you don't need to be able to serve them up. We will soon be able to do pretty much what ever we please with the data. We don't need any third party as a warehouse doing what ever he wants with it.

 

But that's okay, show us how much more smart you are than those of us "who still don't get it."

 

BTW, you're not getting the keys to my house or car either.

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by SE7EN:

Allow you access to their raw data? I suspect they don't. Nor should they. They have _every_ to deliver you the data as they see fit.


 

Guttenberg allows you to grab every last file they offer, a few gigs worth. They will even allow you to become a mirror site so that folks can grab it easier.

 

Wikidepa allows you to grab daily and backup copies of thier entire database as well as the software that runs it.

 

Sourceforge allows downloading of anything and everything they offer. What is cool is what they host are open source projects, these are projects that give away the source code as well as the working binaries. Grab em all, in fact its encouraged you grab them often if your a developer.Each project gets to pick its own license to show use and distriution practices. gee, sounds like another idea I heard around here.

 

Openoffice, same del, grab the binaries and then if your a devleoper grab the source on a daily basis so you get the freshest builds to work with.

 

These are just a few projects that do this...

 

Still dont get it, oh well...

 

----------------------------

 

 

TeamWSMF@wsmf.org

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by TeamWSMF:

Actualy this has been a good thread for me. I thought the idea had some merit, and I still do. What I have realised though is the vocal audience here is of a differnt ilk. I have found a place where folks dig it, in fact are doing it, so we will see what comes of it.

 

Its not so much about bad ideas, just bad audiencesicon_smile.gif- Live and learn.

 

AS for the whole idea of sharing, might I suggest a quick look at the following places where "giving itaway" is the way things work, and work well.

 

http://www.wikipedia.org/

http://www.openoffice.org/

http://www.winamp.com/

http://www.gutenberg.net/

http://gnuwin.org/index.html

http://sourceforge.net

 

For those who still dont get it, thats ok, seems there are more who do such that the tide will turn.


You had be rolling on the floor laughing! THANKS! I'm sure Jeremy wishes he was making the BILLIONs of dollars the companies that host those sites do! HAHAHAHA!

FREE! You kill me! You TRY and use the copyrighted stuff from winamp.com for your personal site, and see how fast AOL/Time Warner shuts you down.

 

+ http://www.wikipedia.org - Owned by Bomis, Inc. A highly profitable web portal, search engine and web host. Mostly deals in "guy oriented" sites (soft porn)

+ http://www.openoffice.org - Owned by Sun. A little ol' computer company ya'll might have heard of....

+ http://www.winamp.com - Nullsoft, a division of AOL/Time Warner. 'Nuff said.

+ gutenberg.net - OK truly a non-profit labor of love. But wait, whats this?

_Q: Can I copy your site, or your site materials?

A: No.

Keeping the PG site updated with the latest e-text releases is an ongoing job, and our experience is that people, however well-intentioned, do not keep copies up to date. We want there to be one clear source for people seeking the latest Project Gutenberg information, and we think that having a lot of out-of-date copies and partial copies scattered around the net would be a bad thing. _ HMMMM. Sounds alot like the reasons I've heard used for geocaching.com not allowing it. Maybe not such good example. Let's try again.

+ http://gnuwin.org - I admit I know little about this project, and it seems pretty legit. There does appear to be some Swiss Corporate backing, but I'm really not sure, so I'll let you have this one.

+ http://sourceforge.net(including your countermoves subdomain) - Sourceforge is owned by VA Software. Besides owning many of the major tech websites, they also SELL software, services, and support. Sell. For money. Not give away for free. Oh, and lest you think for a second that VA hosts sites like sourceforge out of the kindness of their hearts, they made over $20mil profit last year just on selling all that advertising you see plastered all over their sites.

So, out of all your examples, there was ONE "where "giving itaway" is the way things work, and work well." Every other site you mentioned either does not share as freely as you would like, or is subsidizing thru other parts of billion dollar corporations.

Can you please explain how they relate to Geocaching.com?

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by TeamWSMF:

Still dont get it, oh well...


 

Nothing to "get." You want open source, go start your own site. If open source is so great, I'm sure your site will over shadow this in no time.

 

I doubt Jeremy and friends will even consider opening their site to people like you.

 

Don't like it? Do something about it.

Link to comment

A quick check of Google yielded these results:

 

"Searched the web for open source spell checker. Results 1 - 10 of about 34,400. Search took 0.19 seconds."

 

"Searched the web for free spell checker. Results 1 - 10 of about 147,000. Search took 0.21 seconds."

 

Often, how the message is presented has a lot to do with how the message is received!

 

John Esher, Jr

Team Guinness

 

John Esher, Jr & Guinness, GSD

Team Guinness

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by mariajohn:

A quick check of Google yielded these results:

 

"Searched the web for open source spell checker. Results 1 - 10 of about 34,400. Search took 0.19 seconds."

 

"Searched the web for free spell checker. Results 1 - 10 of about 147,000. Search took 0.21 seconds."

 

Often, how the message is presented has a lot to do with how the message is received!

 

John Esher, Jr

Team Guinness

 

John Esher, Jr & Guinness, GSD

Team Guinness


 

...but try to get a free copy of OED without any special circumstances or needs...

 

CR

 

72057_2000.gif

Link to comment

Hmmm... This got off topic quick. I was lookin for a way to get around Mobi, It keeps crashin my PDA. Instead I get a rant by someone who tries to get his point across in a somewhat articulate manner but obviously forgets to use a spell checker. icon_wink.gif

 

Anyway, I would love to use GPX & dump Mobi but I have one or two simple questions....

1.What the hell is GPX?

& 2. How do I use it???? icon_confused.gif

 

Not all of us are computer geeks.

Maybe someone could (please, please, please) put together a simple step-by-step set of instructions for working with this stuff.

Maybe link it off the main page Jeremy? icon_biggrin.gif

 

Wherever you go, there you are!

Link to comment

quote:

Anyway, I would love to use GPX & dump Mobi but I have one or two simple questions....

1.What the hell is GPX?

& 2. How do I use it???? icon_confused.gif

 


 

1) They like LOC-files, but better. They have much more information in them. Even the last five logs. You can change your existing pocket queries to GPX.

2) Which PDA? If you have a Windows based PDA you can simply use GpxView. Install it and transfer the GPX files to the PDA.

If you have a PalmOS based PDA, someone else will help.

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Crusso:

Anyway, I would love to use GPX & dump Mobi but I have one or two simple questions....

1.What the hell is GPX?

& 2. How do I use it???? icon_confused.gif

 

Not all of us are computer geeks.

Maybe someone could (please, please, please) put together a simple step-by-step set of instructions for working with this stuff.

Maybe link it off the main page Jeremy? icon_biggrin.gif

 

Wherever you go, there you are!


 

I am not a computer person either, but I have been using GPX Spinner. It has been discussed in This forum. The links are there to help you. I have been very happy with it, and was able to figure it out with no problems. icon_biggrin.gif

You just have to change your pocket queries from .loc to the GPX choice.

Hope this helps some.

 

My wife says put a coordinate on it and I'll find it.

Link to comment

quote:
It befuddles you folks would rather make there own options rather then have to wait like a humbly silent adept for the priest hood to poot out the True And Accepted versions of the Word?

 

Come on, please dont tell my you dont realize in this day and age folks would not want it open there own devices. Look around you, in the days of XML, open source, distributed projects and an ever increasing number of display types (cell phones, pdas, tablets, etc) to show thier data on its not just IF the data will be made available, its WHEN.

 

And with GPX WHEN is NOW.

 

Now, one preson in my area grabs the GPX file and put its up on thier web server. Everyone that wants can grab it from them. Thats them, not you or your bandwidth so the whole arguement of "Open data will KILL geocaching.com because the traffic will be massive" is a false one.

 

Image that, folks sharing data, offering it up in the raw gpx or sometimes formating them up in HTML

or other formats.


 

Insted of taring into TPTB maybea you shud take a speling lessens.

 

A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. -Barry Goldwater

Link to comment

Man I'm a spell-check kid as much as the next guy, but you don't need to win a spelling Bee(sp?) to get a point across.

 

I jumped on MOBI pocket when the site that did some wonderful palm-cache pages stopped when it was no longer possible to query Geocaching.com. The bandwidth hit is a reasonable enough explanation for me, and although Mobi pocket does some things better(last 5 logs), it does others worse(poor implimentation of hint section, searches that take forever).

 

At least it was a workable alternative that solved the situation and that's all I could ask for(perhaps it'll still do what I want if I just RTFM). I actually like the Modipocket PC version for perusing things offline, etc..

 

This other thing, GPX Spinner is something I'm gonna check out. It sounds promising..

Link to comment

quote:

There's also the alt.rec.geocaching newsgroup which is also a good Jeremy hater place to visit, if you want to join the club. It's a wonderful feeling to be the target of so much vitriol.


 

Aww. It's quieted down now. I think the real JI haters have moved on!

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...