IT"S AN EPIDEMIC.

[+EXMAN]

ABOUT 50% OF TBs LISTED IN CACHE INVENTORYS ARE NOT IN THE CACHE.

WHY ARE THEY NOT MARKED MISSING?

 

THE EXCUSE "OH, THEY'LL TURN UP EVENTUALLY" DOESN'T FLY WITH ME, BECAUSE THE ENTIRE TIME WE'RE WAITING, IT'S LISTED ON THE INVENTORY AND DECIEVING US INTO BELIEVING THE TB IS THERE.

IT'S VERY DISAPPOINTING TO EXPECT TO FIND THAT TB AND THEN COME UP EMPTY HANDED.

SHOULD WE HAVE TO DO A BACKGROUND CHECK ON THE CACHE BEFORE WE PUT IT ON OUR 'LIST FOR THE DAY'?

I DON'T THINK SO !

 

EITHER CACHE REVIEWERS NEED TO BE MORE AGRESSIVE WITH THIS OR IF THEY'RE OVERWORKED THEY NEED TO RECRUIT SOME MEMBERS WHO THINK THIS IS AN ISSUE WORTHY OF SOME VOLUNTARY EFFORT, THE ABILITY TO DELETE THESE TRACKABLES. YOU MIGHT THINK "OH,BUT THEY MIGHT DELETE TRACKABLES THAT SHOULDN'T BE DELETED". WELL OBVIOUSLY THIS COULD BE MONITORED.

 

50% IS WAYYYYYYY TO HIGH.

MANY OF THESE HAVE BEEN IN THEIR INVENTORYS FOR YEARS AFTER THEY WENT MISSING.

I'M YOUR 1ST VOLUNTEER.

LET'S DO THE RIGHT THING AND GET THIS DONE.

 

EXMAN

[+lamoracke]

tried to post in the main section, but now will just copy and paste my log here...

 

while here, you can get folk's opinions if a "needs maintenance" should be done if a TB is left in the cache which is what you are doing a lot in our area. You and I obviously disagree on that one. I say it should be handled via a message in your cache log, a note, or a private email to the CO or trackable owner.

 

What do others say?

 

Unfortunately some folks in our area take up to a year or more to log them out. Its not right that is happening, but sometimes that is why folks leave them in the cache. Whatever it is, I just come to realize that if a CO does not notice my mention in a cache log or whatever I do, I will just move on and wont go "ALL CAPS" on the world. Some COs are not going to respond no matter how you put it, so why make the cache page appear as if the cache itself is wet or broken or too full of a log, which is what the "needs maintenance" is for in my opinion, not about a TB being in it or not.

[+EXMAN]

I feel that 'maintaining' the 'trackables inventory' is part of a COs responsibility.

AND unlike other maintenance, which is often ignored, it can be handled by someone other than the CO. Only a simple computer entry is required.

[+NanCycle]

I hear you. No need to yell--yelling doesn't help.

[+EXMAN]

I hear you. No need to yell--yelling doesn't help.

 

My Bad !

it was just for emphasis.

didn't mean it as a yell.

[Keystone]

Policing trackable inventories is NOT A REQUIRED DUTY for cache reviewers. Did you see the caps? Yeah, I was shouting. Please focus your mission to assign blame in a different direction: trackable owners would be the best place to start.

[+EXMAN]

a what's the big deal about an NM anyway.

people seem to think of it as a slap in the face.

it's only an alert that there is an issue with the cache that needs to be dealt with.

 

many COs ignore them anyway, which is another issue that needs to be addressed.

hiding a cache is a privilege, not a right.

if the cache is not maintained, that privilge should be taken away, opening that space for a cache placed by someone who cares.

 

and what i'm attempting to do here is only to make the game more fun.

i enjoy the game.

i care.

[knowschad]

a what's the big deal about an NM anyway.

people seem to think of it as a slap in the face.

it's only an alert that there is an issue with the cache that needs to be dealt with.

 

many COs ignore them anyway, which is another issue that needs to be addressed.

hiding a cache is a privilege, not a right.

if the cache is not maintained, that privilge should be taken away, opening that space for a cache placed by someone who cares.

 

and what i'm attempting to do here is only to make the game more fun.

i enjoy the game.

i care.

Is this thread now going to be moved back to the Geocaching Topics forum?

[+mpilchfamily]

If i come across a cache that lists TB/Coins and they are not there i mention it in my cache log and post a note on the TB/Coin page mentioning it wasn't in the cache. From there its up to the owners to decide what they want to do.

[+Ambrosia]

tried to post in the main section, but now will just copy and paste my log here...

 

while here, you can get folk's opinions if a "needs maintenance" should be done if a TB is left in the cache which is what you are doing a lot in our area. You and I obviously disagree on that one. I say it should be handled via a message in your cache log, a note, or a private email to the CO or trackable owner.

 

What do others say?

 

Unfortunately some folks in our area take up to a year or more to log them out. Its not right that is happening, but sometimes that is why folks leave them in the cache. Whatever it is, I just come to realize that if a CO does not notice my mention in a cache log or whatever I do, I will just move on and wont go "ALL CAPS" on the world. Some COs are not going to respond no matter how you put it, so why make the cache page appear as if the cache itself is wet or broken or too full of a log, which is what the "needs maintenance" is for in my opinion, not about a TB being in it or not.

Yeah, I think that an EPIDEMIC is getting 13 NM logs for missing trackables in my inbox over the last week.

 

OP, I understand that it's frustrating to not find trackables in a cache when they're listed there. I basically ignore the inventory for caches, and if I find a trackable in a cache, it's a pleasant surprise, like Christmas.

 

It's not the job of a Reviewer to take care of trackables, although they could if they have extra time. I personally wish the trackable owners would be more proactive about their trackables, but a lot of times it's left up to the cache owner. After reading about these issues in the forums, I now try to do a trackable sweep every few months and update all of my caches.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Ambrosia

[+dfx]

SERISOULY AGIGTATED

[+niraD]

I saw the closed duplicate post in the other forum and came here to reply. I probably won't be back though; although I enjoy owning and moving trackables, I don't really follow this forum.

 

You're preaching to the choir. Active cache owners who care about their caches' trackable inventories already keep their caches' trackable inventories current. Inactive cache owners won't read your message. Cache owners who don't care about their caches' trackable inventories either won't read or won't pay attention to your message.

 

Look at it this way: You're a responsible cache owner. You use quality containers that protect the log and trade items from the elements. You replace full logs. You maintain the cache promptly when something happens to the cache or its camouflage. But you really don't care about trackables, and don't want to be involved in that side game.

 

Then people start hassling you because trackables are listed as being in your caches when they are no longer there. Are you more likely to (1) start caring about trackables, (2) start preemptively marking all trackables as missing, (3) start hiding smaller caches that people can't leave trackables in, or (4) something else? Will any of the likely responses actually help people who enjoy trackables?

[+EXMAN]

Policing trackable inventories is NOT A REQUIRED DUTY for cache reviewers. Did you see the caps? Yeah, I was shouting. Please focus your mission to assign blame in a different direction: trackable owners would be the best place to start.

 

that's fine.

but i know it is done.

 

i saw a post by someone saying they delete about 1000 trackables a year.

 

and in reguard to teackable owners.

i'm not sure why, but MANY don't care.

but the difference between the TOs and the COs is.... the COs are advertising/offering something special to us 'players of the game'. but they're not coming thru on their promise. it's like false advertising. and AFTER you're lured into coming to their store to shop, the game is changed. they don't have the product that's been advertised

[+EXMAN]

If i come across a cache that lists TB/Coins and they are not there i mention it in my cache log and post a note on the TB/Coin page mentioning it wasn't in the cache. From there its up to the owners to decide what they want to do.

 

and this doesn't seem to be working.

the TB owners don't seem to care.

and that log for the CO either isn't read or it just glossed over and missed or the CO thinks that because it wasn't a note or an NM that it can be disreguarded.

 

like you, most cachers that report it at all, make their report on the TBs page and /or a mention in their 'found it' log. RARELY is it a 'note'.

[Keystone]

There's a vast difference between thanking a reviewer who goes beyond their required duties and marks trackables missing, vs castigating reviewers for not doing this extra task.

 

I've quit doing it, though I used to do so. Same for cleaning up Needs Maintenance logs. There was simply too much unnecessary drama and angst thrown back at me.

[+EXMAN]

I saw the closed duplicate post in the other forum and came here to reply. I probably won't be back though; although I enjoy owning and moving trackables, I don't really follow this forum.

 

You're preaching to the choir. Active cache owners who care about their caches' trackable inventories already keep their caches' trackable inventories current. Inactive cache owners won't read your message. Cache owners who don't care about their caches' trackable inventories either won't read or won't pay attention to your message.

 

Look at it this way: You're a responsible cache owner. You use quality containers that protect the log and trade items from the elements. You replace full logs. You maintain the cache promptly when something happens to the cache or its camouflage. But you really don't care about trackables, and don't want to be involved in that side game.

 

Then people start hassling you because trackables are listed as being in your caches when they are no longer there. Are you more likely to (1) start caring about trackables, (2) start preemptively marking all trackables as missing, (3) start hiding smaller caches that people can't leave trackables in, or (4) something else? Will any of the likely responses actually help people who enjoy trackables?

 

i 'totally' see your point. everybody plays the game in their own way.

but 'this' issue is solveable without the CO being involved.

give volunteers the ability to log these trackabled as 'missing'.

[+EXMAN]

There's a vast difference between thanking a reviewer who goes beyond their required duties and marks trackables missing, vs castigating reviewers for not doing this extra task.

 

I've quit doing it, though I used to do so. Same for cleaning up Needs Maintenance logs. There was simply too much unnecessary drama and angst thrown back at me.

 

i apologize for the castigating of reviewers.

done deal.

[+addisonbr]

but the difference between the TOs and the COs is.... the COs are advertising/offering something special to us 'players of the game'. but they're not coming thru on their promise. it's like false advertising. and AFTER you're lured into coming to their store to shop, the game is changed. they don't have the product that's been advertised

As a CO, trackables are not a part of the game I particularly enjoy. They often cause me headaches. There are many times that I would not like my cache to be a part of someone else's side game, but by using this listing service, I realize that I don't have that ability. And that's okay.

 

But to claim that I'm advertising or offering something special to the rest of the world, or luring someone to my shop, is not really true. I am not advertising anything other than the fact that I have a fun cache, well-maintained and ready to find. People who put trackables in my cache create notifications for others, but as the CO I'd love to turn off the trackable inventory. I just can't.

 

There are probably better solutions than accusing COs of insidious behavior.

[+EXMAN]

SERISOULY AGIGTATED

 

you're a couple of the FEW that have responded at all.

 

most have totally ignored my posts.

no deletion of post.....nothing.

[+Gan Dalf]

you can get folk's opinions if a "needs maintenance" should be done if a TB is left in the cache which is what you are doing a lot in our area.

 

Not sure If I am hearing this correctly. Is the OP going to cache pages that have travel bugs listed in them and logging a NM if he percieves that the tracakbales are missing? Without ever having visited the cache himself?

 

If so, that is out of line. Needs Maintanance Logs should only be used by those individuals that have visited the cache and know first hand that there is a porblem with it.

 

I feel that 'maintaining' the 'trackables inventory' is part of a COs responsibility.

AND unlike other maintenance, which is often ignored, it can be handled by someone other than the CO. Only a simple computer entry is required.

 

I would agree that if a CO knows that a trackable that is listed as being in his/her cache is not there than marking it as missing is the courteous thing to do but the Trackable owner shares some of that resposibility. It is THEIR trackable after all and if they have been informed that it is not listed in a particular cache and some time has gone by since they were made aware of it then they should mark the item as missing as well. As far as others handling it go, only the CO and the trackable owner have the option of marking something missing...

 

I don't necessarily agree that a NM log is the appropriate action for a missing trackable. If nothing else is wrong with the cache then it doesn't need maintanance. A NM log is to indicate a problem with the cache itself and other than prohibited items in the cache, does not extend to it's contents, IMHO.

[+EXMAN]

if only a poll could be done.

 

the cachers that enjoy trackables would be behind me 100%.

if only they knew that discussion wass going on.

[+EXMAN]

and like i said, "it's a solvable problem".

i'd be willing to delete 1000s of these.

[+dfx]

You may be interested in this.

[knowschad]

Policing trackable inventories is NOT A REQUIRED DUTY for cache reviewers. Did you see the caps? Yeah, I was shouting. Please focus your mission to assign blame in a different direction: trackable owners would be the best place to start.

 

that's fine.

but i know it is done.

 

i saw a post by someone saying they delete about 1000 trackables a year.

 

and in reguard to teackable owners.

i'm not sure why, but MANY don't care.

but the difference between the TOs and the COs is.... the COs are advertising/offering something special to us 'players of the game'. but they're not coming thru on their promise. it's like false advertising. and AFTER you're lured into coming to their store to shop, the game is changed. they don't have the product that's been advertised

 

I have worked with three reviewers over seven years, and I personally have never once heard of a reviewer marking trackables as missing. That is an option for cache owners, but it often isn't done for several reasons.

 

For one thing, the TB/Coin may have been picked up, but not yet logged. How long should a cache owner wait before deciding to mark it missing?

 

For another thing, the cache owner may very well not know that the trackables are missing. Sometimes somebody will add that to their log, but again... that does not mean that it is missing. It only means that it hasn't been logged yet. I will sometimes mark them missing from my caches in those situations, but only if nobody else has logged the cache for some time.

 

Another reason is that cache owners frequently don't scan their cache pages to see what the current inventory is.

 

Cache owners are most certainly NOT "advertising/offering something special to us 'players of the game'"! The trackables inventory is a feature that Groundspeak added to the cache page, and it is controlled/maintained by those that drop and retrieve trackables. The cache page display is just that... a display. To call it "false advertising" is very, very wrong.

 

I would not normally bring this up, but since you are implying that cache owners are neglecting their maintenance responsibilities, I must point out that you have not yet experienced those responsibilities for yourself, so perhaps until you do, you should be a little careful of the fingers that you point.

[+Gan Dalf]

if only a poll could be done.

 

the cachers that enjoy trackables would be behind me 100%.

if only they knew that discussion wass going on.

 

You can lower your percentage by one. I enjoy trackables and I enjoy maintaining caches that encourage their placement. What I would not enjoy is someone from outside my area, percieving that I am being lax in my duties and coming to my cache and removing bugs from it's inventory becasue they think they know a particular bug is not there. Likewise, I wouldn't want my bug removed from a cache without first hand knowledge of someone that has been there.

 

this is most likely what Keystone was eluding to when he said he had stopped doing it. Too many CO's and TO's sending him angry e-mails for trying to "help".

[+ThePetersTrio]

if only a poll could be done.

 

the cachers that enjoy trackables would be behind me 100%.

if only they knew that discussion wass going on.

 

I enjoy travelers and have released dozens of them. I probably wouldn't say I'm behind you 100 percent in your rant though, and here is why.

 

I do try to mark my coins missing every few months or so. But I've noticed that sometimes, people are vacationing and are not caught up on their logging (travelers included). When I have pre-emptively marked a coin missing, I'll get a note from the vacationing cacher with an apology for being late with logging and they will get the coin moving again.

 

I don't like to mark my coins missing too quickly. That makes people who are leaning toward keeping them, but maybe just haven't gotten around to logging them, more likely to steal and keep them.

 

Also, winter months can make a huge difference too. Sometimes COs can't check their caches for months because the caches are covered in snow. If I mark a coin missing because it has been in a cache for the winter without movement, and then spring comes and sure enough the coin is there, then I've made an error (easily corrected sure, but an error nonetheless).

 

The person I think you are referring to who has marked 1000s of them missing is probably Eartha who is a moderator. He/she is nice enough to do this service as a volunteer whenever someone sends him/her a note that a coin or TB is missing from a cache. You could always send him/her a message if there are coins or bugs in particular that you think should be marked missing.

 

However, unless you actually have visited the cache to physically verify the traveler is missing, then don't bother.

 

Really, I think this issue is between the CO (who controls their cache) and the traveler's owner (who controls their coin/tb) and other people should stay out of it with the exception of posting a note to the traveler's page:

 

"Sorry to say I did not see your coin in XXX cache today. I hope it turns up soon."

 

and/or a note to the cache page:

 

"No coins/TBs seen in the cache today."

 

As a traveler owner, this step is very helpful. But much more than that really isn't welcome to this coin owner. My 2 cents anyway. Your results may vary.

[+EXMAN]

You may be interested in this.

 

oh my gosh !

yahooooooooooooo!

other people actually feel the same way i do.

even jeremy.

 

thank you VERY much for the link !

[+EXMAN]

Policing trackable inventories is NOT A REQUIRED DUTY for cache reviewers. Did you see the caps? Yeah, I was shouting. Please focus your mission to assign blame in a different direction: trackable owners would be the best place to start.

 

that's fine.

but i know it is done.

 

i saw a post by someone saying they delete about 1000 trackables a year.

 

and in reguard to teackable owners.

i'm not sure why, but MANY don't care.

but the difference between the TOs and the COs is.... the COs are advertising/offering something special to us 'players of the game'. but they're not coming thru on their promise. it's like false advertising. and AFTER you're lured into coming to their store to shop, the game is changed. they don't have the product that's been advertised

 

I have worked with three reviewers over seven years, and I personally have never once heard of a reviewer marking trackables as missing. That is an option for cache owners, but it often isn't done for several reasons.

 

For one thing, the TB/Coin may have been picked up, but not yet logged. How long should a cache owner wait before deciding to mark it missing?

 

For another thing, the cache owner may very well not know that the trackables are missing. Sometimes somebody will add that to their log, but again... that does not mean that it is missing. It only means that it hasn't been logged yet. I will sometimes mark them missing from my caches in those situations, but only if nobody else has logged the cache for some time.

 

Another reason is that cache owners frequently don't scan their cache pages to see what the current inventory is.

 

Cache owners are most certainly NOT "advertising/offering something special to us 'players of the game'"! The trackables inventory is a feature that Groundspeak added to the cache page, and it is controlled/maintained by those that drop and retrieve trackables. The cache page display is just that... a display. To call it "false advertising" is very, very wrong.

 

I would not normally bring this up, but since you are implying that cache owners are neglecting their maintenance responsibilities, I must point out that you have not yet experienced those responsibilities for yourself, so perhaps until you do, you should be a little careful of the fingers that you point.

 

let's not get our panties all up in a bunch here.

 

let's just take the COs out of the equation.

let other people ( volunteers like me ) handle it.

[+ThePetersTrio]

let's not get our panties all up in a bunch here.

 

let's just take the COs out of the equation.

let other people ( volunteers like me ) handle it.

 

Um, no thanks.

 

And I find it interesting that YOU are suggesting someone (anyone) has their panties in a bunch.

[knowschad]

Policing trackable inventories is NOT A REQUIRED DUTY for cache reviewers. Did you see the caps? Yeah, I was shouting. Please focus your mission to assign blame in a different direction: trackable owners would be the best place to start.

 

that's fine.

but i know it is done.

 

i saw a post by someone saying they delete about 1000 trackables a year.

 

and in reguard to teackable owners.

i'm not sure why, but MANY don't care.

but the difference between the TOs and the COs is.... the COs are advertising/offering something special to us 'players of the game'. but they're not coming thru on their promise. it's like false advertising. and AFTER you're lured into coming to their store to shop, the game is changed. they don't have the product that's been advertised

 

I have worked with three reviewers over seven years, and I personally have never once heard of a reviewer marking trackables as missing. That is an option for cache owners, but it often isn't done for several reasons.

 

For one thing, the TB/Coin may have been picked up, but not yet logged. How long should a cache owner wait before deciding to mark it missing?

 

For another thing, the cache owner may very well not know that the trackables are missing. Sometimes somebody will add that to their log, but again... that does not mean that it is missing. It only means that it hasn't been logged yet. I will sometimes mark them missing from my caches in those situations, but only if nobody else has logged the cache for some time.

 

Another reason is that cache owners frequently don't scan their cache pages to see what the current inventory is.

 

Cache owners are most certainly NOT "advertising/offering something special to us 'players of the game'"! The trackables inventory is a feature that Groundspeak added to the cache page, and it is controlled/maintained by those that drop and retrieve trackables. The cache page display is just that... a display. To call it "false advertising" is very, very wrong.

 

I would not normally bring this up, but since you are implying that cache owners are neglecting their maintenance responsibilities, I must point out that you have not yet experienced those responsibilities for yourself, so perhaps until you do, you should be a little careful of the fingers that you point.

 

let's not get our panties all up in a bunch here.

 

let's just take the COs out of the equation.

let other people ( volunteers like me ) handle it.

 

Huh? Panties??? Bunch??? I think I just gave you, who came on board here with his panties in a bunch caps-lock on, a very rational list of reasons why what you see as a pantie-bunching problem exists. I ended that rational list by rationally pointing out that you should walk a mile in someone's shoes before you get too critical of them.

 

I will not let a volunteer (you or other) handle my trackables, thank you. As a trackable owner, I can also mark my own trackables missing.

[+Five_Spikes]

You may be interested in this.

I gave it two votes...

I like moving trackables about as I travel. Fortunately, reading the logs where a trackable is located usually reveals if it is not actually there.

[+Five_Spikes]

and like i said, "it's a solvable problem".

i'd be willing to delete 1000s of these.

Can you become a reviewer and then do this?

[+EXMAN]

Policing trackable inventories is NOT A REQUIRED DUTY for cache reviewers. Did you see the caps? Yeah, I was shouting. Please focus your mission to assign blame in a different direction: trackable owners would be the best place to start.

 

that's fine.

but i know it is done.

 

i saw a post by someone saying they delete about 1000 trackables a year.

 

and in reguard to teackable owners.

i'm not sure why, but MANY don't care.

but the difference between the TOs and the COs is.... the COs are advertising/offering something special to us 'players of the game'. but they're not coming thru on their promise. it's like false advertising. and AFTER you're lured into coming to their store to shop, the game is changed. they don't have the product that's been advertised

 

I have worked with three reviewers over seven years, and I personally have never once heard of a reviewer marking trackables as missing. That is an option for cache owners, but it often isn't done for several reasons.

 

For one thing, the TB/Coin may have been picked up, but not yet logged. How long should a cache owner wait before deciding to mark it missing?

 

For another thing, the cache owner may very well not know that the trackables are missing. Sometimes somebody will add that to their log, but again... that does not mean that it is missing. It only means that it hasn't been logged yet. I will sometimes mark them missing from my caches in those situations, but only if nobody else has logged the cache for some time.

 

Another reason is that cache owners frequently don't scan their cache pages to see what the current inventory is.

 

Cache owners are most certainly NOT "advertising/offering something special to us 'players of the game'"! The trackables inventory is a feature that Groundspeak added to the cache page, and it is controlled/maintained by those that drop and retrieve trackables. The cache page display is just that... a display. To call it "false advertising" is very, very wrong.

 

I would not normally bring this up, but since you are implying that cache owners are neglecting their maintenance responsibilities, I must point out that you have not yet experienced those responsibilities for yourself, so perhaps until you do, you should be a little careful of the fingers that you point.

 

let's not get our panties all up in a bunch here.

 

let's just take the COs out of the equation.

let other people ( volunteers like me ) handle it.

 

Huh? Panties??? Bunch??? I think I just gave you, who came on board here with his panties in a bunch caps-lock on, a very rational list of reasons why what you see as a pantie-bunching problem exists. I ended that rational list by rationally pointing out that you should walk a mile in someone's shoes before you get too critical of them.

 

I will not let a volunteer (you or other) handle my trackables, thank you. As a trackable owner, I can also mark my own trackables missing.

 

my respone was due to the aggressive nature of your post.

 

and you seem to be contradicting yourself.

you makes lots of excuses for not logging trackables as missing.

including........

"The trackables inventory is a feature that Groundspeak added to the cache page, and it is controlled/maintained by those that drop and retrieve trackables."

and then you turn around and say.............

"I will not let a volunteer (you or other) handle my trackables, thank you."

 

i don't want to walk a mile in your shoes.

if you or anyone else has too many hides out there to properly maintain them, maybe it's time to put them up for adoption or archive them

[+NanCycle]

Stop refering to marking trackables missing as "deleting" them; it gives a totally wrong impression.

 

Marking a trackable as missing simply says "It is not in this cache and we don't know where it is."

It is still somewhere; it is not "Deleted."

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

<snip>

 

like you, most cachers that report it at all, make their report on the TBs page and /or a mention in their 'found it' log. RARELY is it a 'note'.

There are posts regarding "what to do" monthly, if not weekly about this here in the forums.

Here is one of the latest threads: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=284236

 

1) Those who do care ask -- and get the answers.

 

2) Those who don't care, don't bother asking.

 

3) <snipped>

 

I believe that those who fit into category 1) learn and eventually teach others;

I believe there is little that ANYONE can do about those in category 2);

I believe that category 3) speaks for itself (because it was snipped)

 

Just which category do you fit into?

 

As geocaching and trackable movements/logs is dictated by guidelines and not "rules" or "laws", it is basically left up to the geocachers to police themselves. As anyone and everyone can geocache, own caches and trackables, there is a great disparity (oftentimes disagreement) about what to do/what not to do.

It seems as though you wish to change the world. Well... you can. But practice has shown that you can only change one-at-a-time. Practice has also shown that not everyone is going to heed, learn or, for that matter, even care.

 

Rather than a rant, most of those here in the forums, probably even the Frog itself, would certainly entertain thoughts of a solution to the problem (yes, the matter at hand is a problem -- most would agree to that). Suggest some type of a solution, propose it and get the proper backing from those that do care. Please.

[knowschad]

Policing trackable inventories is NOT A REQUIRED DUTY for cache reviewers. Did you see the caps? Yeah, I was shouting. Please focus your mission to assign blame in a different direction: trackable owners would be the best place to start.

 

that's fine.

but i know it is done.

 

i saw a post by someone saying they delete about 1000 trackables a year.

 

and in reguard to teackable owners.

i'm not sure why, but MANY don't care.

but the difference between the TOs and the COs is.... the COs are advertising/offering something special to us 'players of the game'. but they're not coming thru on their promise. it's like false advertising. and AFTER you're lured into coming to their store to shop, the game is changed. they don't have the product that's been advertised

 

I have worked with three reviewers over seven years, and I personally have never once heard of a reviewer marking trackables as missing. That is an option for cache owners, but it often isn't done for several reasons.

 

For one thing, the TB/Coin may have been picked up, but not yet logged. How long should a cache owner wait before deciding to mark it missing?

 

For another thing, the cache owner may very well not know that the trackables are missing. Sometimes somebody will add that to their log, but again... that does not mean that it is missing. It only means that it hasn't been logged yet. I will sometimes mark them missing from my caches in those situations, but only if nobody else has logged the cache for some time.

 

Another reason is that cache owners frequently don't scan their cache pages to see what the current inventory is.

 

Cache owners are most certainly NOT "advertising/offering something special to us 'players of the game'"! The trackables inventory is a feature that Groundspeak added to the cache page, and it is controlled/maintained by those that drop and retrieve trackables. The cache page display is just that... a display. To call it "false advertising" is very, very wrong.

 

I would not normally bring this up, but since you are implying that cache owners are neglecting their maintenance responsibilities, I must point out that you have not yet experienced those responsibilities for yourself, so perhaps until you do, you should be a little careful of the fingers that you point.

 

let's not get our panties all up in a bunch here.

 

let's just take the COs out of the equation.

let other people ( volunteers like me ) handle it.

 

Huh? Panties??? Bunch??? I think I just gave you, who came on board here with his panties in a bunch caps-lock on, a very rational list of reasons why what you see as a pantie-bunching problem exists. I ended that rational list by rationally pointing out that you should walk a mile in someone's shoes before you get too critical of them.

 

I will not let a volunteer (you or other) handle my trackables, thank you. As a trackable owner, I can also mark my own trackables missing.

 

my respone was due to the aggressive nature of your post.

 

and you seem to be contradicting yourself.

you makes lots of excuses for not logging trackables as missing.

including........

"The trackables inventory is a feature that Groundspeak added to the cache page, and it is controlled/maintained by those that drop and retrieve trackables."

and then you turn around and say.............

"I will not let a volunteer (you or other) handle my trackables, thank you."

 

i don't want to walk a mile in your shoes.

if you or anyone else has too many hides out there to properly maintain them, maybe it's time to put them up for adoption or archive them

 

My post was not aggressive in the least.

[+Bamilbis]

There it is again. You're equating a COs not marking trackballs as missing to not maintaining their cache.

 

See? Not marking TBs as missing = not maintaining caches.

 

A mod even came in here and shouted at you (his words) that it is NOT the COs duty to maintain the inventory. I see two problems with your argument here: 1, you started off with the ALL CAPS and that sorta set the tone, and 2. You're not hearing what others are saying.

 

By the buy, I agree it's a problem. (TBs not being where they are listed) I'm sure there is a process that could be developed to help with the issue. But I'm positive that process doesn't involve CO's.

 

Edited to clean up minor grammar issues.

Edited November 1, 2011 by GeotaggedBloger

[+EXMAN]

Policing trackable inventories is NOT A REQUIRED DUTY for cache reviewers. Did you see the caps? Yeah, I was shouting. Please focus your mission to assign blame in a different direction: trackable owners would be the best place to start.

 

that's fine.

but i know it is done.

 

i saw a post by someone saying they delete about 1000 trackables a year.

 

and in reguard to teackable owners.

i'm not sure why, but MANY don't care.

but the difference between the TOs and the COs is.... the COs are advertising/offering something special to us 'players of the game'. but they're not coming thru on their promise. it's like false advertising. and AFTER you're lured into coming to their store to shop, the game is changed. they don't have the product that's been advertised

 

I have worked with three reviewers over seven years, and I personally have never once heard of a reviewer marking trackables as missing. That is an option for cache owners, but it often isn't done for several reasons.

 

For one thing, the TB/Coin may have been picked up, but not yet logged. How long should a cache owner wait before deciding to mark it missing?

 

For another thing, the cache owner may very well not know that the trackables are missing. Sometimes somebody will add that to their log, but again... that does not mean that it is missing. It only means that it hasn't been logged yet. I will sometimes mark them missing from my caches in those situations, but only if nobody else has logged the cache for some time.

 

Another reason is that cache owners frequently don't scan their cache pages to see what the current inventory is.

 

Cache owners are most certainly NOT "advertising/offering something special to us 'players of the game'"! The trackables inventory is a feature that Groundspeak added to the cache page, and it is controlled/maintained by those that drop and retrieve trackables. The cache page display is just that... a display. To call it "false advertising" is very, very wrong.

 

I would not normally bring this up, but since you are implying that cache owners are neglecting their maintenance responsibilities, I must point out that you have not yet experienced those responsibilities for yourself, so perhaps until you do, you should be a little careful of the fingers that you point.

 

let's not get our panties all up in a bunch here.

 

let's just take the COs out of the equation.

let other people ( volunteers like me ) handle it.

 

Huh? Panties??? Bunch??? I think I just gave you, who came on board here with his panties in a bunch caps-lock on, a very rational list of reasons why what you see as a pantie-bunching problem exists. I ended that rational list by rationally pointing out that you should walk a mile in someone's shoes before you get too critical of them.

 

I will not let a volunteer (you or other) handle my trackables, thank you. As a trackable owner, I can also mark my own trackables missing.

 

my respone was due to the aggressive nature of your post.

 

and you seem to be contradicting yourself.

you makes lots of excuses for not logging trackables as missing.

including........

"The trackables inventory is a feature that Groundspeak added to the cache page, and it is controlled/maintained by those that drop and retrieve trackables."

and then you turn around and say.............

"I will not let a volunteer (you or other) handle my trackables, thank you."

 

i don't want to walk a mile in your shoes.

if you or anyone else has too many hides out there to properly maintain them, maybe it's time to put them up for adoption or archive them

 

My post was not aggressive in the least.

 

by the way......

 

there's a TB inthe inventory of 'B2K: Bobcam's 2000th find'.

it's not in the cache.

[+EXMAN]

There it is again. You're equating a COs not marking trackballs as missing to not maintaining their cache.

 

See? Not marking TBs as missing = not maintaining caches.

 

A mod even came in here and shouted at you (his words) that it is NOT the COs duty to maintain the inventory. I see two problems with your argument here: 1, you started off with the ALL CAPS and that sorta set the tone, and 2. You're not hearing what others are saying.

 

By the buy, I agree it's a problem. (TBs not being where they are listed) I'm sure there is a process that could be developed to help with the issue. But I'm positive that process doesn't involve CO's.

 

Edited to clean up minor grammar issues.

 

i've said, let's take COs out of the equation.

let volunteers like me handle it.

[+ThePetersTrio]

let volunteers like me handle it.

 

Volunteers like you? When did you become a volunteer?

[+dfx]

let volunteers like me handle it.

 

Volunteers like you? When did you become a volunteer?

 

¹vol·un·teer

noun \ˌvä-lən-ˈtir\

Definition of VOLUNTEER

1 : a person who voluntarily undertakes or expresses a willingness to undertake a service

[+The Blorenges]

 

A mod even came in here and shouted at you (his words) that it is NOT the COs duty to maintain the inventory.

 

 

*Polite cough*

 

No - The Mod (The Man, The 'Stone) posted (loudly) to say that "Policing trackable inventories is NOT A REQUIRED DUTY for cache reviewers."

 

He was very careful not to state his opinion on whether or not it is part of a CO's duty to maintain an accurate cache inventory.

 

Personally, I feel it is something that I'm happy to do as a courtesy to other cachers who may want to visit our cache especially to retrieve a trackable but, no, I don't think it is a requirement under the heading of "cache maintenance".

 

MrsB

[+coggins]

by the way......

 

there's a TB inthe inventory of 'B2K: Bobcam's 2000th find'.

it's not in the cache.

 

i've said, let's take COs out of the equation.

The owner of the TB tag can do this any time they wish, it's their tag after all.

[+EXMAN]

<snip>

 

like you, most cachers that report it at all, make their report on the TBs page and /or a mention in their 'found it' log. RARELY is it a 'note'.

There are posts regarding "what to do" monthly, if not weekly about this here in the forums.

Here is one of the latest threads: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=284236

 

1) Those who do care ask -- and get the answers.

 

2) Those who don't care, don't bother asking.

 

3) <snipped>

 

I believe that those who fit into category 1) learn and eventually teach others;

I believe there is little that ANYONE can do about those in category 2);

I believe that category 3) speaks for itself (because it was snipped)

 

Just which category do you fit into?

 

As geocaching and trackable movements/logs is dictated by guidelines and not "rules" or "laws", it is basically left up to the geocachers to police themselves. As anyone and everyone can geocache, own caches and trackables, there is a great disparity (oftentimes disagreement) about what to do/what not to do.

It seems as though you wish to change the world. Well... you can. But practice has shown that you can only change one-at-a-time. Practice has also shown that not everyone is going to heed, learn or, for that matter, even care.

 

Rather than a rant, most of those here in the forums, probably even the Frog itself, would certainly entertain thoughts of a solution to the problem (yes, the matter at hand is a problem -- most would agree to that). Suggest some type of a solution, propose it and get the proper backing from those that do care. Please.

 

There are posts regarding "what to do" monthly, if not weekly about this here in the forums.

Here is one of the latest threads: http://forums.Ground...howtopic=284236

 

1) Those who do care ask -- and get the answers.

 

2) Those who don't care, don't bother asking.

 

3) <snipped>

 

I believe that those who fit into category 1) learn and eventually teach others;

I believe there is little that ANYONE can do about those in category 2);

I believe that category 3) speaks for itself (because it was snipped)

 

Just which category do you fit into?

 

i have no idea what you're talking about here.

but if the question was.......do i care about the geocaching game and the issue of inventory maintainance......of course i do.

 

COs have the ability to log as missing those trackables that are in their inventorys, so Groundspeak obviously thinks you have some responsibility to 'maintain' that inventory.

if you don't want to.... then agree with me that volunteers like me should be given the privilege to do it.

if you don't want to do it

[knowschad]

Policing trackable inventories is NOT A REQUIRED DUTY for cache reviewers. Did you see the caps? Yeah, I was shouting. Please focus your mission to assign blame in a different direction: trackable owners would be the best place to start.

 

that's fine.

but i know it is done.

 

i saw a post by someone saying they delete about 1000 trackables a year.

 

and in reguard to teackable owners.

i'm not sure why, but MANY don't care.

but the difference between the TOs and the COs is.... the COs are advertising/offering something special to us 'players of the game'. but they're not coming thru on their promise. it's like false advertising. and AFTER you're lured into coming to their store to shop, the game is changed. they don't have the product that's been advertised

 

I have worked with three reviewers over seven years, and I personally have never once heard of a reviewer marking trackables as missing. That is an option for cache owners, but it often isn't done for several reasons.

 

For one thing, the TB/Coin may have been picked up, but not yet logged. How long should a cache owner wait before deciding to mark it missing?

 

For another thing, the cache owner may very well not know that the trackables are missing. Sometimes somebody will add that to their log, but again... that does not mean that it is missing. It only means that it hasn't been logged yet. I will sometimes mark them missing from my caches in those situations, but only if nobody else has logged the cache for some time.

 

Another reason is that cache owners frequently don't scan their cache pages to see what the current inventory is.

 

Cache owners are most certainly NOT "advertising/offering something special to us 'players of the game'"! The trackables inventory is a feature that Groundspeak added to the cache page, and it is controlled/maintained by those that drop and retrieve trackables. The cache page display is just that... a display. To call it "false advertising" is very, very wrong.

 

I would not normally bring this up, but since you are implying that cache owners are neglecting their maintenance responsibilities, I must point out that you have not yet experienced those responsibilities for yourself, so perhaps until you do, you should be a little careful of the fingers that you point.

 

let's not get our panties all up in a bunch here.

 

let's just take the COs out of the equation.

let other people ( volunteers like me ) handle it.

 

Huh? Panties??? Bunch??? I think I just gave you, who came on board here with his panties in a bunch caps-lock on, a very rational list of reasons why what you see as a pantie-bunching problem exists. I ended that rational list by rationally pointing out that you should walk a mile in someone's shoes before you get too critical of them.

 

I will not let a volunteer (you or other) handle my trackables, thank you. As a trackable owner, I can also mark my own trackables missing.

 

my respone was due to the aggressive nature of your post.

 

and you seem to be contradicting yourself.

you makes lots of excuses for not logging trackables as missing.

including........

"The trackables inventory is a feature that Groundspeak added to the cache page, and it is controlled/maintained by those that drop and retrieve trackables."

and then you turn around and say.............

"I will not let a volunteer (you or other) handle my trackables, thank you."

 

i don't want to walk a mile in your shoes.

if you or anyone else has too many hides out there to properly maintain them, maybe it's time to put them up for adoption or archive them

 

My post was not aggressive in the least.

 

by the way......

 

there's a TB inthe inventory of 'B2K: Bobcam's 2000th find'.

it's not in the cache.

Yes, I recieved the note that you posted on my cache. It is none of your business to be policing my caches from a distance and posting notes on them. That is how I define aggression.

 

EXMAN: Travel Bug Dog Tag

 

this is not in your cache

it needs tobe logged as

'MISSING

 

Please do not do that again.

[+Bamilbis]

Yes, you did say, "Let's take the CO out of the equation and let volunteers do it". (paraphrase)

 

But then you said this:

 

i don't want to walk a mile in your shoes.

if you or anyone else has too many hides out there to properly maintain them, maybe it's time to put them up for adoption or archive them

[+TheLoneGrangers]

Enjoy finding caches, enjoy finding trackables, if they aren't there, BIG DEAL, go find another of the 1.5 million caches and move on, have fun, don't let little crap like this bother you.

[+EXMAN]

You may be interested in this.

I gave it two votes...

I like moving trackables about as I travel. Fortunately, reading the logs where a trackable is located usually reveals if it is not actually there.

 

like i said......

we shouldn't have to do a background check of a cache to see if it has TBs in it.

MANY of these TBs haven't been in the cache for YEARS.

[+BMndFul]

I will throw a few thoughts out.... I see travelers as the property of their owner/creator, hence their responsibility to maintain their status. However, that can only be done with CO and other player's help. Once they start traveling, it totally unreasonable to think a traveler owner can visit a specific cache, if it is out of their area. The solution is pretty easy actually. If someone notices that a traveler is not in a cache send the owner a note. Done. It's the owner's responsibility to start a little detective work to find out if it is in deed missing. The owner could contact the last few loggers to find out if the TB was noticed when they visited the cache, they could speak to the CO for a quick visit. etc etc. Through a little work, via email you should be able fairly quickly to figure out it's story, then develop a plan of action. I really enjoy travelers. I have worked hard to make mine unique, funny, and or thought provoking. I am vested in their survival. They are my virtual little kids traveling the world. If you don't want to make the effort to maintain your travelers then you probably shouldn't play. They can be a lot of work, but a lot of enjoyment. Of course, it always like a death when one is missing, lost or stolen. If we all just work together we can stop this epidemic of CAPSLOCK proportions.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Russ!

[+EXMAN]

Yes, you did say, "Let's take the CO out of the equation and let volunteers do it". (paraphrase)

 

But then you said this:

 

i don't want to walk a mile in your shoes.

if you or anyone else has too many hides out there to properly maintain them, maybe it's time to put them up for adoption or archive them

 

both of my comments are saying the same thing, and that is........

stop making excuses for not maintaining your trackables inventory.

if you don't want to do it, let someone who cares do it for you.