Questionable cache titles

[+Sol seaker]

Well, the consensus here seems to be that it is definitely okay to be sexist

I reread this thread. I don't get that impression at all.

 

It isn't a question about whether it's okay to be sexist (or racist, but most of the discussion has been about sexism). There seems to be agreement that real sexism is bad.

 

It's a question about whether certain cache names, jokes, etc. are sexist. That's where the disagreement lies.

 

And for some reason, I am reminded of a certain motivational poster with the following caption below a photo of a woman volleyball player:

You run like a girl.

You hit like a girl.

You throw like a girl.

YOU SERVE 60 MPH

IN THEIR FACE

LIKE A

GIRL

But that was probably a sexist poster, right?

 

I don't see one remark on this thread from anyone but the OP that sexism in any form is a problem. Everyone else is saying "get tough". I'm sure that's what they used to tell Black people in the south about being slaves.

 

"Even a girl can find it" is much different than that poster above. If you can't see the difference perhaps you ought to try a class in women's studies. I certainly can't begin to educate you here.

[+Manville Possum]

I guess this one is sexist, but everybody seems to enjoy the joke http://coord.info/GC2YT1D

 

Are you sure about "everyone"?

Everyone who has found it. Does it offend you?

 

Yes

 

Sorry, but I think you need a winter coat of fur or thicker skin.

 

This is exactly the answer I would expect, but that sidesteps the issue. If you were caching with your young daughter would you like to explain this to her? Would you tell her to get thicker skin? Would you want her to get the idea that she is substandard?

 

 

Have you read the logs?

 

I would suggest there is a bit more to this cache than its title. Reading between the lines there is some joke between the title and the hide itself.

You would not know this, but blue & grey gives me a hint. Blue & Grey are geocacher friends of JJC. Sure it's done with humor. All geocaches are not boring.

[knowschad]

There's a recently published cache that I saw called little blue pill. It's hilarious to me, derogatory towards men with a specific issue and absolutely meaningless anyone who doesn't know the societal context of the cache title. For all a kid knows it's talking about a candy or something. Though it notes on the page it is not a child friendly cache.

Here's another one by that name: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=23a2885e-adae-4e20-a1a9-901dfe6b81e8

[+BigChiefS4]

Brooklyn,

I think you did a fantastic job in responding to remarks up above.

I'm actually surprised that there is not more intelligence here around this issue. Perhaps that just says who cachers are.

 

For those who don't get it, and say things like, "women say things about men too" have no idea what it's like to be a woman in this society. That's like saying, "Black people in the south, during the slavery years had just as many bad things to say about the people who owned them." There is a basic difference in the two groups. There is also a basic difference in the two groups of men and women.

 

People are no longer socially aware. This is just the way it seems to be anymore. People don't matter anymore in our society. I think it comes from the top and works it's way down. The politicians don't care about people anymore (unless you make over 6 mil a year), and everyone is getting the idea that people and therefore people's feelings really don't matter.

 

People really don't care about other people's feelings.

That's the bottom line here to me.

 

They also are really clueless about women in this society.

Women are not equal here, and so jokes about it are in as bad taste as jokes about black slaves in the south.

Women still make less money for the same job. It's gone up from 50 cents to every man's dollar up to, the last I heard was 60 cents.

Every year there are millions of young girls, including in the US, who have their genitalia mutilated rendering them unable to obtain orgasm. Read that sentence again. Women have equal rights here?

 

There are still many fields that are next to impossible for women to break into. I know a woman who was denied training as an auto mechanic. She was told to go ask 10 shops who would be willing to hire her. Do the men get this treatment when they ask to work in their area of interest?

Another woman I know got training and worked as an airline mechanic. She was very good at what she did, but was bullied by the other mechanics who did not want a woman working there, so badly, that she ended up having to quit.

Women these days not only hold the burden of childbearing, but also of holding a full-time job while being the main person to raise these children.

And then we can talk about battered women. Many women stay with the man because they aren't able to support themselves in this society. Sure you'll argue there are battered men, but it's something like 98% women.And instead of getting help from oppressive men, they are ridiculed like you are likely to do in response to this.

 

This list goes on and on, and I'm not even touching upon a small percentage of what goes on that shows that women are not granted equal treatment.

 

Anyone with any education knows that women are not equal in our society, and therefore, it's inappropriate to joke about these things.

I guess the majority of cachers here are just not educated.

 

Wow, you went way off topic. I read your whole post, and, quite frankly, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. I'm not going to reply to your individual statements because they do not belong in this thread.

 

Brooklyn51, if the beaver cache that was mentioned bothers you, I suggest going to visit it yourself and make your own conclusion. I'll even go with you, seeing as how it's only a couple miles from my house. There's still a few caches in that park I want to find.

[knowschad]

Brooklyn,

I think you did a fantastic job in responding to remarks up above.

I'm actually surprised that there is not more intelligence here around this issue. Perhaps that just says who cachers are.

 

For those who don't get it, and say things like, "women say things about men too" have no idea what it's like to be a woman in this society. That's like saying, "Black people in the south, during the slavery years had just as many bad things to say about the people who owned them." There is a basic difference in the two groups. There is also a basic difference in the two groups of men and women.

 

People are no longer socially aware. This is just the way it seems to be anymore. People don't matter anymore in our society. I think it comes from the top and works it's way down. The politicians don't care about people anymore (unless you make over 6 mil a year), and everyone is getting the idea that people and therefore people's feelings really don't matter.

 

People really don't care about other people's feelings.

That's the bottom line here to me.

 

They also are really clueless about women in this society.

Women are not equal here, and so jokes about it are in as bad taste as jokes about black slaves in the south.

Women still make less money for the same job. It's gone up from 50 cents to every man's dollar up to, the last I heard was 60 cents.

Every year there are millions of young girls, including in the US, who have their genitalia mutilated rendering them unable to obtain orgasm. Read that sentence again. Women have equal rights here?

 

There are still many fields that are next to impossible for women to break into. I know a woman who was denied training as an auto mechanic. She was told to go ask 10 shops who would be willing to hire her. Do the men get this treatment when they ask to work in their area of interest?

Another woman I know got training and worked as an airline mechanic. She was very good at what she did, but was bullied by the other mechanics who did not want a woman working there, so badly, that she ended up having to quit.

Women these days not only hold the burden of childbearing, but also of holding a full-time job while being the main person to raise these children.

And then we can talk about battered women. Many women stay with the man because they aren't able to support themselves in this society. Sure you'll argue there are battered men, but it's something like 98% women.And instead of getting help from oppressive men, they are ridiculed like you are likely to do in response to this.

 

This list goes on and on, and I'm not even touching upon a small percentage of what goes on that shows that women are not granted equal treatment.

 

Anyone with any education knows that women are not equal in our society, and therefore, it's inappropriate to joke about these things.

I guess the majority of cachers here are just not educated.

 

It's a cache, for crying out loud! Chokecherry, as you well know, is a woman, and she said "women say things about men too". She also, wisely, said, "pick your battles". (Post # 47)

Edited October 31, 2011 by knowschad

[+Gan Dalf]

 

i don't understand why its always the female side that always seems to be offended

the truth is we are physically and mentally designed different and to serve different purposes...there is one amazing book out there written by a two psychologists, husband and wife, it offers a great insight into why we are different

Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps: How We're Different and What to Do About It

 

there are naturally things that a man can do and a women can't and vice-verse...why is it so hard for some to get their head around it?

why does it have to be seen as being substandard?

 

I'm a man and I love reading maps, I always do so before a trip so I don't have to pull them out when I get there. I also love to cook, hate clutter and don't like being late, does that mean I'm effeminate?

[+DsrtMtnRox]

I never understand the, "I didn't get the answer I was looking for when I posed my question so now I'm just going to take my ball and go home" response.

 

My question to the OP - what is it that you would like to see done about these caches that are offending your sensibilities?

 

I'm not taking my ball and going home. I think my question should have better been asked directly to Groundspeak in that they make the rules and in their other rulings seem to be concerned about objectionable content associated with caches--all caches, not just a few. Again, the question is: Is it okay to use questionable wording when naming a cache? I can assume you and most of the other posters think that it is okay. So be it for you. I still think it's a legitimate question.

 

I agree that going through Groundspeak would probably get you closer to finding out what their policy on this subject is. Have you voiced your concerns to the owners of the caches in question?

 

As for your assumption about me, it is really irrelevant. I don't make the rules here. If a cache upset me or I didn't think it was appropriate for my kids then I just wouldn't hunt for it.

 

That being said, I think my parenting philosophy seems to be different than yours. I believe in teaching my children about the reality of the world so that when they go out into it, they are fully prepared (age-appropriately of course). They will come across many people in their lives who have different beliefs about subjects than they do. Some beliefs they will share and some they definitely won't.

 

But I'll say this, I'd rather people are honest about who they are so I can make decisions about whether or not I wish to interact with them. I'm not making a judgment about the caches you are upset with - I don't even know which ones they are, frankly. But even if the COs of those caches had titled them with the intent to offend all women, I'd rather they have free speech to announce that they have those beliefs than to have it hidden. My hunch is that if you spoke directly with the COs you'd get a lot more information about their intent and they'd get a lot more information about how their cache titles may be coming across to the public.

 

My thoughts exactly Peterstrio...exactly. (I am a woman and mother)

[+the4dirtydogs]

Brooklyn,

I think you did a fantastic job in responding to remarks up above.

I'm actually surprised that there is not more intelligence here around this issue. Perhaps that just says who cachers are.

 

For those who don't get it, and say things like, "women say things about men too" have no idea what it's like to be a woman in this society. That's like saying, "Black people in the south, during the slavery years had just as many bad things to say about the people who owned them." There is a basic difference in the two groups. There is also a basic difference in the two groups of men and women.

 

People are no longer socially aware. This is just the way it seems to be anymore. People don't matter anymore in our society. I think it comes from the top and works it's way down. The politicians don't care about people anymore (unless you make over 6 mil a year), and everyone is getting the idea that people and therefore people's feelings really don't matter.

 

People really don't care about other people's feelings.

That's the bottom line here to me.

 

They also are really clueless about women in this society.

Women are not equal here, and so jokes about it are in as bad taste as jokes about black slaves in the south.

Women still make less money for the same job. It's gone up from 50 cents to every man's dollar up to, the last I heard was 60 cents.

Every year there are millions of young girls, including in the US, who have their genitalia mutilated rendering them unable to obtain orgasm. Read that sentence again. Women have equal rights here?

 

There are still many fields that are next to impossible for women to break into. I know a woman who was denied training as an auto mechanic. She was told to go ask 10 shops who would be willing to hire her. Do the men get this treatment when they ask to work in their area of interest?

Another woman I know got training and worked as an airline mechanic. She was very good at what she did, but was bullied by the other mechanics who did not want a woman working there, so badly, that she ended up having to quit.

Women these days not only hold the burden of childbearing, but also of holding a full-time job while being the main person to raise these children.

And then we can talk about battered women. Many women stay with the man because they aren't able to support themselves in this society. Sure you'll argue there are battered men, but it's something like 98% women.And instead of getting help from oppressive men, they are ridiculed like you are likely to do in response to this.

 

This list goes on and on, and I'm not even touching upon a small percentage of what goes on that shows that women are not granted equal treatment.

 

Anyone with any education knows that women are not equal in our society, and therefore, it's inappropriate to joke about these things.

I guess the majority of cachers here are just not educated.

WOW. Just WOW

[+rosebud55112]

Brooklyn51,

 

I'm kinda with you on this one. When I saw the name of this one show up I thought "Well, that's kind of tacky."

 

I was at the Halloween Hoopla with my 11yo son. I thought the only explanation of female anatomy I might have to give him there was to explain that no, there wasn't really a three-headed woman living nearby.

 

When we were there, we didn't go for B or B. I did overhear what the cache surprise is like, though. I agree that the name was probably chosen because it had some degree of "ooh, so naughty" to it. I'm guessing that the CO didn't intend to offend anyone-I've run into him enough to build my impression of him as not someone to intentionally do that.

 

The biggest disappointment I had from the name of this cache is that there was a group of four guys who were just laughing it up at the table near us and adding plenty more off-color words. "Guys," I said to them, "there are kids here." One of them looked over at us, kind of sheepishly acknowledged us and got the others to change the subject.

 

So on the way home we had a teachable moment in the car. Not really what I wanted, but as a parent I had to take it when he asked about what he'd overheard. I was a little frustrated that this had been pushed on me by a cache name and a bunch of inappropriate guys.

 

Now, I'll await the anonymous parenting advice to come my way.

[+Gan Dalf]

Brooklyn51,

 

I'm kinda with you on this one. When I saw the name of this one show up I thought "Well, that's kind of tacky."

 

I was at the Halloween Hoopla with my 11yo son. I thought the only explanation of female anatomy I might have to give him there was to explain that no, there wasn't really a three-headed woman living nearby.

 

When we were there, we didn't go for B or B. I did overhear what the cache surprise is like, though. I agree that the name was probably chosen because it had some degree of "ooh, so naughty" to it. I'm guessing that the CO didn't intend to offend anyone-I've run into him enough to build my impression of him as not someone to intentionally do that.

 

The biggest disappointment I had from the name of this cache is that there was a group of four guys who were just laughing it up at the table near us and adding plenty more off-color words. "Guys," I said to them, "there are kids here." One of them looked over at us, kind of sheepishly acknowledged us and got the others to change the subject.

 

So on the way home we had a teachable moment in the car. Not really what I wanted, but as a parent I had to take it when he asked about what he'd overheard. I was a little frustrated that this had been pushed on me by a cache name and a bunch of inappropriate guys.

 

Now, I'll await the anonymous parenting advice to come my way.

 

the question I have is whether or not your son would have wondered about it if you had not brought attention to it by saying something to the 4 guys having a personal conversation, albeit in a public setting.

 

Same thing goes for the name of the cache. I don't think that my 9 or even my 11 year old would question the name at all if we went to look for this particular cache and the only thing that they would remember about it is that there were Beavers near by, which they would think is very cool. I'm not trying to give parenting advice but I think it's important that childrens perceptions are much different than ours and often times we protect from things that they really don't need protection from.

[cezanne]

Anyone with any education knows that women are not equal in our society, and therefore, it's inappropriate to joke about these things.

 

I agree that there are still many areas where women

do not have the same chances than men (BTW there are other areas as well where men suffer from measures introduced to increase the

number of women in some fields). I cannot see any connection, however, to a cache name like "Even a girl can find it". If I would

find such a cache, I might write 1-2 sentences in my log (I would do the same if instead of girl there would be boy, American or whatever), but never would feel inclined to complain about the cache title.

 

Do you really put that much value on a cache title? If a teacher made a comment about girls/boys not being able to some type of thing, I would get angry, but if a cache is titled that way, I either would think that the cache owner wanted to be funny and did not manage to make me laugh or that he has a lot of wrong prejudices.

 

Moreover, it appears to me that you mix up equal chances with being equal. While I think that being offered equal chances than men is something achievable for women, I do not think that it is achievable for them to be equal to men.

 

I guess the majority of cachers here are just not educated.

 

If you refer to those who have chosen to write in this thread, I do know that quite a number of them owns university degrees.

 

 

Cezanne

Edited October 31, 2011 by cezanne

[knowschad]

Same thing goes for the name of the cache. I don't think that my 9 or even my 11 year old would question the name at all

You apparently had a much different childhood than I did. There wasn't much we didn't know by that age, and that was during the "Leave It To Beaver" era (connection to the cache name is purely coincidental).

[+Gan Dalf]

Same thing goes for the name of the cache. I don't think that my 9 or even my 11 year old would question the name at all

You apparently had a much different childhood than I did. There wasn't much we didn't know by that age, and that was during the "Leave It To Beaver" era (connection to the cache name is purely coincidental).

I wasn't speaking about myself at 9 or 11 but my children now. Perhaps my wording is what caused the confusion and could have been stated better...

[+Don_J]

 

"Generic Cache Name #1,096,582", gets a bit boring after a while.” (Interpret: Once again, so in an attempt to be creative, sexism and racism is okay?—oh, that’s right, as long as it’s a joke.)

 

 

Wrong!

My point is that by the time you removed everything that could possibly offend someone, that is what you are left with.

 

Your response to "So easy a girl can find it" shows just how silly those Geico commercials were.

[+rosebud55112]

 

the question I have is whether or not your son would have wondered about it if you had not brought attention to it by saying something to the 4 guys having a personal conversation, albeit in a public setting.

 

 

Yeah, I'll grant you that's possible. Sometimes the best way to handle things is by ignoring them.

[knowschad]

Same thing goes for the name of the cache. I don't think that my 9 or even my 11 year old would question the name at all

You apparently had a much different childhood than I did. There wasn't much we didn't know by that age, and that was during the "Leave It To Beaver" era (connection to the cache name is purely coincidental).

I wasn't speaking about myself at 9 or 11 but my children now. Perhaps my wording is what caused the confusion and could have been stated better...

I think I know what you meant. My parents had no idea I knew what I knew at that age, either. Kids are great secret keepers when it comes to older people.

[+BMndFul]

 

<snip>

 

This list goes on and on, and I'm not even touching upon a small percentage of what goes on that shows that women are not granted equal treatment.

 

Anyone with any education knows that women are not equal in our society, and therefore, it's inappropriate to joke about these things.

I guess the majority of cachers here are just not educated.

 

I totally disagree. It is permissible to "joke" about inequalities etc. in our free speech society. Social commentary which includes comedic material can bring issues to the forefront of thought. What is not permissible is discrimination. Two different issues. When you talk about jokes (humor), you are talking about taste which is a meaningless standard, according to the US Supreme Court. I always find it interesting when a person disagrees with a specific view, they are suddenly labeled uneducated. hmm......

Edited October 31, 2011 by Russ!

[+Gan Dalf]

Same thing goes for the name of the cache. I don't think that my 9 or even my 11 year old would question the name at all

You apparently had a much different childhood than I did. There wasn't much we didn't know by that age, and that was during the "Leave It To Beaver" era (connection to the cache name is purely coincidental).

I wasn't speaking about myself at 9 or 11 but my children now. Perhaps my wording is what caused the confusion and could have been stated better...

I think I know what you meant. My parents had no idea I knew what I knew at that age, either. Kids are great secret keepers when it comes to older people.

Maybe, and at the risk of being reprimanded...

 

the other day my wife was looking at her Spam folder and if you are familiar with Gmail you know that wehn you empty out your Spam folder you know you get a message that states "Hooray! No spam here! My son (the 9 year old) was looking over her shoulder and when he saw the message he said to her, Hey, wait a minute, isn't spam that stuff that makes babies?

[+GeoBain]

People are no longer socially aware. This is just the way it seems to be anymore. People don't matter anymore in our society. I think it comes from the top and works it's way down. The politicians don't care about people anymore (unless you make over 6 mil a year), and everyone is getting the idea that people and therefore people's feelings really don't matter.

 

People really don't care about other people's feelings.

That's the bottom line here to me.

 

I gotta disagree with this. The PC movement has pushed us to the point that it's hard to know what is or is not appropriate to say any longer.

 

You have to choose your words ever so carefully these days for fear of offending. I would argue that if anything we are too overly concerned about other people's feelings.

 

I'll give you an example. When I am out and about I see children looking at me and asking their parents what's wrong with that man? Most parents' response is to scold their child for being so rude. However, when I hear this and I have the time, I will approach them and let the parent know that I don't mind the question. I let them know that it is perfectly natural for anyone, including adults, to be curious why someone is in a wheelchair and then I explain briefly my affliction. I would much rather someone ask the question that is on their mind and receive knowledge than to walk away in ignorance because they were too afraid to ask.

[+ThePetersTrio]

Anyone with any education knows that women are not equal in our society, and therefore, it's inappropriate to joke about these things.

I guess the majority of cachers here are just not educated.

 

I honestly cannot believe you are saying this. Educated people realize that without all the information (do we even know what caches the OP is talking about yet?) a conclusion about appropriateness cannot be reached.

 

Educated people realize that when you have a problem with someone a) you speak directly to them about it and/or b ) report the problem to those with the proper authority to do something about it (if some rule or law has been violated).

 

Asking for opinions on a message board? Other than allowing people to jump to conclusions about that which they do not know (again where are those pesky facts?), what purpose does it solve? There won't be a consensus here. What offends me may not offend you and vice versa. Who says any of us are the arbiter of cache page etiquette? Other than Groundspeak and the reviewers...who gets to decide? You? Me? The OP?

Edited October 31, 2011 by ThePetersTrio

[+ThePetersTrio]

So on the way home we had a teachable moment in the car. Not really what I wanted, but as a parent I had to take it when he asked about what he'd overheard.

 

I love teachable moments. Granted I'm only 14 years into this parenting thing, but from what I've experienced so far, teachable moments stick with kids better than lecture #26. And I'm pretty sure my 14 year old would agree.

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

"Generic Cache Name #1,096,582", gets a bit boring after a while.

 

Actually, I think I'll use that. It'll be funny now

[+t4e]

 

I find it interesting that you quote and counterpoint(not very well I might add) the admitted males or unknown gender posts and leave alone the point/counterpoint with the opposing female posters.

 

i noticed that, is it perhaps that more support was expected from the female side?

 

i don't understand why its always the female side that always seems to be offended

the truth is we are physically and mentally designed different and to serve different purposes...there is one amazing book out there written by a two psychologists, husband and wife, it offers a great insight into why we are different

Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps: How We're Different and What to Do About It

 

there are naturally things that a man can do and a women can't and vice-verse...why is it so hard for some to get their head around it?

why does it have to be seen as being substandard?

 

I do not agree with the "substandard point of view", but the book mentioned above contains many simplifications (maybe because it is written to be bought by a large audience).

I know many women who can read maps much better than men. What plays the essential role is the individual and not its gender.

 

Cezanne

 

have you actually read the book or just speculating of the contents?

 

we are not talking exceptions...the majority of women prefer to turn the map upside down to read it, and it all has to do with how our brains are wired for visualization

 

 

i don't understand why its always the female side that always seems to be offended

the truth is we are physically and mentally designed different and to serve different purposes...there is one amazing book out there written by a two psychologists, husband and wife, it offers a great insight into why we are different

Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps: How We're Different and What to Do About It

 

there are naturally things that a man can do and a women can't and vice-verse...why is it so hard for some to get their head around it?

why does it have to be seen as being substandard?

 

I'm a man and I love reading maps, I always do so before a trip so I don't have to pull them out when I get there. I also love to cook, hate clutter and don't like being late, does that mean I'm effeminate?

 

nah, you're a Seinfeld

[Clan Riffster]

Is it okay to use questionable wording when naming a cache?

Haven't you already answered that question for yourself some time ago?

You have a cache called Norwegian Wood, a famous John Lennon song based on a premarital affair. You have another cache called Hilde Peep Show, which is bristling with sexual innuendo. Personally, I find both to be offensive, and I think you should edit the titles or archive them.

[cezanne]

have you actually read the book or just speculating of the contents?

 

I read parts, not all of it - I got tired of it as it is often the case with books targeted at a larger audience.

Certainly, the book contains correct facts as well, but it is oversimplifying and written in a very popular kind of language, not even close to

the language in scientific publications.

 

 

Cezanne

[+GeoBain]

Anyone with any education knows that women are not equal in our society, and therefore, it's inappropriate to joke about these things.

I guess the majority of cachers here are just not educated.

 

I guess it's out of ignorance that my friends call me gimpy. Everyone knows that cripples are not equal in our society.

 

I'm probably going to hell for having the "Stutter Rap" as my friend's ringtone. But he t-t-t-t-t-thinks it's h-h-h-h-hilarious!

 

Joke about it all you want. Just don't deny me access because of it.

[+GeoBain]

So on the way home we had a teachable moment in the car. Not really what I wanted, but as a parent I had to take it when he asked about what he'd overheard.

 

I love teachable moments. Granted I'm only 14 years into this parenting thing, but from what I've experienced so far, teachable moments stick with kids better than lecture #26. And I'm pretty sure my 14 year old would agree.

 

+1

[+Harry Dolphin]

And so, Brooklyn, by now you have realized that the Internet is geared to prepubescent boys. (And that includes many well into their senior years.) And that seems to include Geocaching. The polite society that many of us grew up in has given way to the Least Common Denominator: Prepubescent boys. A discussion of beer soon turns into a photo contest of the St Pauli Girl with her (endowments) showing. Hee hee. Snort. That's what sells beer to that crowd. Oh, well.

Good luck with a protest of making fun of blonde girls. This crowd, obviously, thinks it's funny. A bunch of twelve-year-old mentalities. Least common denominator.

While I have heard of some caches being archived for being off-color (A cache in a piece of wood near Morning Avenue: Morning Wood.) That is very rare. I objected to one called Slow Poke ... Placed in the parking lot of a porn store, with the note: Adults who find it will understand the title. That was considered acceptable. Despite come cache finders having to avoid the people having (enjoyment) in the parking lot.

So, if you cannot deal with 12-year-old boys making crude jokes (despite their age), this is not a good place for you to hang out. Sad, but polite society is dead. Unfortunately that is the modern world.

[Clan Riffster]

If you were caching with your young daughter would you like to explain this to her?

Of course! I marvel at every opportunity Gaia gives me to converse with her. Being able to see the world through her eyes, while also being able to explain why I feel the way I do about Life, The Universe And Everything, are the moments I cherish more than any others. In my highly biased opinion, she really is a pretty amazing person.

 

Would you tell her to get thicker skin?

No. For the cache Lil Devil mentioned, she would not be offended, so the subject would never come up. If there were some other cache, whose title did offend, I would be happy to discuss her feelings on the matter, and share my thoughts on it. If after such a conversation she still was bothered by it, I would accept her viewpoint whether I agreed with it or not. She knows that her feelings are important to me, and she seldom hesitates to discuss how she feels about things. By teaching her that even grumpy ole dad can be tolerant of viewpoints he doesn't share, she learns that it's OK to feel however she feels, so long as she is honest with herself regarding why she feels that way.

 

Would you want her to get the idea that she is substandard?

Why would she feel substandard? My daughter is educated enough to recognise humor when she sees it. As such, she would know that such a cache title has no power to lessen who she is as a person. She is also empowered enough to decide what, if any, course of action would be appropriate for a cache title which offends her, but does not offend the vast majority of players. These are the values I've taught her. I would hope that any parent would teach their kid similar mores.

[+Sol seaker]

 

<snip>

 

This list goes on and on, and I'm not even touching upon a small percentage of what goes on that shows that women are not granted equal treatment.

 

Anyone with any education knows that women are not equal in our society, and therefore, it's inappropriate to joke about these things.

I guess the majority of cachers here are just not educated.

 

I totally disagree. It is permissible to "joke" about inequalities etc. in our free speech society. Social commentary which includes comedic material can bring issues to the forefront of thought. What is not permissible is discrimination. Two different issues. When you talk about jokes (humor), you are talking about taste which is a meaningless standard, according to the US Supreme Court. I always find it interesting when a person disagrees with a specific view, they are suddenly labeled uneducated. hmm......

 

If one is uneducated on social issues, then they are uneducated on social issues.

 

Of course in our free speech society you can joke about anything.

You can also eat with your mouth full and spit your food in people's face as you do so. It just won't endear you to a lot of people.

[+Sol seaker]

Same thing goes for the name of the cache. I don't think that my 9 or even my 11 year old would question the name at all

You apparently had a much different childhood than I did. There wasn't much we didn't know by that age, and that was during the "Leave It To Beaver" era (connection to the cache name is purely coincidental).

I wasn't speaking about myself at 9 or 11 but my children now. Perhaps my wording is what caused the confusion and could have been stated better...

I think I know what you meant. My parents had no idea I knew what I knew at that age, either. Kids are great secret keepers when it comes to older people.

Maybe, and at the risk of being reprimanded...

 

the other day my wife was looking at her Spam folder and if you are familiar with Gmail you know that wehn you empty out your Spam folder you know you get a message that states "Hooray! No spam here! My son (the 9 year old) was looking over her shoulder and when he saw the message he said to her, Hey, wait a minute, isn't spam that stuff that makes babies?

 

The thing is that kids pick things up whether they speak them or not.

 

Girls get the message from a young age, from many places that they are not to do a lot of things that boys can do.

Kids pick up these things. You won't know it at the time, but they are often a lot more observant than you think. And some of it is subliminal, that they won't be aware of, but will form the opinions of society and themselves that last a lifetime.

[+Sol seaker]

People are no longer socially aware. This is just the way it seems to be anymore. People don't matter anymore in our society. I think it comes from the top and works it's way down. The politicians don't care about people anymore (unless you make over 6 mil a year), and everyone is getting the idea that people and therefore people's feelings really don't matter.

 

People really don't care about other people's feelings.

That's the bottom line here to me.

 

I gotta disagree with this. The PC movement has pushed us to the point that it's hard to know what is or is not appropriate to say any longer.

 

You have to choose your words ever so carefully these days for fear of offending. I would argue that if anything we are too overly concerned about other people's feelings.

 

I'll give you an example. When I am out and about I see children looking at me and asking their parents what's wrong with that man? Most parents' response is to scold their child for being so rude. However, when I hear this and I have the time, I will approach them and let the parent know that I don't mind the question. I let them know that it is perfectly natural for anyone, including adults, to be curious why someone is in a wheelchair and then I explain briefly my affliction. I would much rather someone ask the question that is on their mind and receive knowledge than to walk away in ignorance because they were too afraid to ask.

 

 

Miss Manners puts out a marvelous series of books on this issue.

Some are rather daunting at 700 pages plus, but I highly recommend them nonetheless.

 

It really isn't about being PC, but about how we treat one another.

 

When it's around kids, it's about how they're taught to view one another and themselves.

[+Walts Hunting]

Careful what you say here. If the OP doesn't like what you say instead of responding in an open forum to discuss it she reports you to GC and you get a nasty gram. So much for open and free communication and tongue in cheek humor.

[+GeoBain]

Careful what you say here. If the OP doesn't like what you say instead of responding in an open forum to discuss it she reports you to GC and you get a nasty gram. So much for open and free communication and tongue in cheek humor.

 

Seriously? All you said in this thread was:

 

Put them on your ignore list and move on.

[+DanOCan]

I'm confused. We were always taught "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me." Are today's kids so fragile that mere words are that upsetting?

 

I've never seen a cache title that offended me. Of course, being a white male I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to have an opinion.

[knowschad]

Careful what you say here. If the OP doesn't like what you say instead of responding in an open forum to discuss it she reports you to GC and you get a nasty gram. So much for open and free communication and tongue in cheek humor.

I think that comment was uncalled for. There is nothing in what Brooklyn51 said that would imply anything of the sort! That is the sort of post that gives this forum the bad name that it has.

[+GeoBain]

Careful what you say here. If the OP doesn't like what you say instead of responding in an open forum to discuss it she reports you to GC and you get a nasty gram. So much for open and free communication and tongue in cheek humor.

I think that comment was uncalled for. There is nothing in what Brooklyn51 said that would imply anything of the sort! That is the sort of post that gives this forum the bad name that it has.

 

Might want to wait for him to clarify what he's talking about. Seeing as nasty grams have not been mentioned before, I'm guessing he got one and therefore is speaking from experience. I'm just not sure why anything he said would trigger a nasty gram. I am curious what he's talking about.

[+Gan Dalf]

I'm confused. We were always taught "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me." Are today's kids so fragile that mere words are that upsetting?

 

 

That was what we were told, yes, and thankfully that particular bit of horse manure is being recognized for what it is. Words hurt, it's a fact, and anyone that doesn't recognize it is blind. I speak from experience and I'm in my upper 40's. I just had a discussion in the car with my 9 year old son while taking him over to a friends house for trick or treating tonight about this very subject. He's a good kid, nice, friendly well liked by most people and some little **** has taken it upon himself to make his life miserable everyday on the bus to and from school.

 

But that is beside the point. The question being asked here is if a particular cache name should be allowed or not because some people find it offensive and don't want to have to be a parent and explain it to their kids. I believe that we are on the same page as far as that goes. I still believe that most kids under 12 would not even recognize it as an "offensive" title unless the parent reacts to it. If you make a big deal about it, then they will percieve it as such.

[myfester]

I'm not taking my ball and going home. I think my question should have better been asked directly to Groundspeak in that they make the rules and in their other rulings seem to be concerned about objectionable content associated with caches--all caches, not just a few. Again, the question is: Is it okay to use questionable wording when naming a cache? I can assume you and most of the other posters think that it is okay. So be it for you. I still think it's a legitimate question.

 

there are so many people that use this site that it would be impossible to make everyone happy. you need to think that what is questionable to you might not be to someone else and there could be things that others find questionable that you don't. the only way to keep from publishing caches with names that others might find questionable is to stop letting cachers name their own cache and go with something generic like the GC#.

 

If you are worried about taking you family to a cache that you find questionable then the best thing you can do is filter out the caches that don't fit your perception of a good family oriented cache and put the others on ignore.

 

I was about to post something similar to roundnround. Some folks, depending where and how they grew up, may not find something "questionable" in wording as maybe someone raised in a city, socially saavy, etc. Heck, I was raised in a big city and some phrases or slang for body parts still fly a little over my head. Very saavy people (INTERPRET: slightly twisted minds...muahahahaha) might be able to find something offensive in almost any phrase. So, basically, all Groundspeak can do is (as someone already mentioned), is assign only a number to every cache and ditch the fun in naming.

[+GeoBain]

The question being asked here is if a particular cache name should be allowed or not

 

I'd have to see the name to make any worthwhile comment on whether or not "I" feel it should not be allowed. The 2 examples so far have been fine.

 

Beaver or Bush I am almost positive has some kind of plastic or wooden beaver holding the cache. Sexual innuendo? Sure. But nothing I would have a problem explaining to a 9 year old if s/he even was curious enough to ask.

 

JJC's cache might give me reason to pause if not for the fact that it is obvious from the listing and logs that it is a private joke between him and a female friend.

 

I had a cache called "What's Up Your Butt?" I'm sure some could find that offensive. But it was a cache stuck up a plastic chicken's butt. Who was it that started the thread about geocachers loving to put caches in the rear end of things?

 

I realize that words do hurt. Trust me, I've had to grow really thick skin over the years. But it's not so much what is said to you as much as how you react to what has been said. I believe TPT said it a while back. Words have as much power as you choose to give them.

[+GeoBain]

Very saavy people (INTERPRET: slightly twisted minds...muahahahaha) might be able to find something offensive in almost any phrase.

 

Some of us actively seek it out and then post it in a thread over in OT.

[+OldLog]

I started to read through this and then thought why bother. Seriously if the name of the cache is a problem for you then move on to another. It would seem no matter what in today's world you are going to offend someone or another. Be it religious political sexist you name it someone is on the look out for something they see as a personal affront. I do not give much thought to the name of the cache I only enjoy the search.

[knowschad]

Careful what you say here. If the OP doesn't like what you say instead of responding in an open forum to discuss it she reports you to GC and you get a nasty gram. So much for open and free communication and tongue in cheek humor.

I think that comment was uncalled for. There is nothing in what Brooklyn51 said that would imply anything of the sort! That is the sort of post that gives this forum the bad name that it has.

 

Might want to wait for him to clarify what he's talking about. Seeing as nasty grams have not been mentioned before, I'm guessing he got one and therefore is speaking from experience. I'm just not sure why anything he said would trigger a nasty gram. I am curious what he's talking about.

 

I won't wait for him to clarify anything. If I misunderstood it, there is a very good chance that the OP also misunderstood it. The OP was clearly not in favor of a certain cache name, and stated as much, but there was absolutely no suggestion of reporting anyone to GC. That was clearly uncalled for, IMO.

[+GeoBain]

Careful what you say here. If the OP doesn't like what you say instead of responding in an open forum to discuss it she reports you to GC and you get a nasty gram. So much for open and free communication and tongue in cheek humor.

I think that comment was uncalled for. There is nothing in what Brooklyn51 said that would imply anything of the sort! That is the sort of post that gives this forum the bad name that it has.

 

Might want to wait for him to clarify what he's talking about. Seeing as nasty grams have not been mentioned before, I'm guessing he got one and therefore is speaking from experience. I'm just not sure why anything he said would trigger a nasty gram. I am curious what he's talking about.

 

I won't wait for him to clarify anything. If I misunderstood it, there is a very good chance that the OP also misunderstood it. The OP was clearly not in favor of a certain cache name, and stated as much, but there was absolutely no suggestion of reporting anyone to GC. That was clearly uncalled for, IMO.

 

Exactly. Which is why I don't think he would pull it out of thin air. I could be wrong, but it seems like the OP may have emailed Walt's Hunting and thus prompted his post. So it might be a good idea to wait and see why Walt's said what he said.

[myfester]

Same thing goes for the name of the cache. I don't think that my 9 or even my 11 year old would question the name at all

You apparently had a much different childhood than I did. There wasn't much we didn't know by that age, and that was during the "Leave It To Beaver" era (connection to the cache name is purely coincidental).

I wasn't speaking about myself at 9 or 11 but my children now. Perhaps my wording is what caused the confusion and could have been stated better...

I think I know what you meant. My parents had no idea I knew what I knew at that age, either. Kids are great secret keepers when it comes to older people.

Ok...slightly off the subject matter, but it does sort of pertain to interpretation of adults vs. children content...do the easily offended watch any of the newer Pixar Movies? Shrek? Cars? There has been so many lines in those movies that the adults were hysterical over, yet the kids looks very confused. What do the easily offended do then? (BTW, I love the fun in names, love "in" jokes in movies. I guess I'm just not intelligent enough to be offended, because I hardly every am...and I am a woman)

[myfester]

I'm confused. We were always taught "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me." Are today's kids so fragile that mere words are that upsetting?

 

I've never seen a cache title that offended me. Of course, being a white male I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to have an opinion.

+1 on the first part (Can't speak for the second part...I'm a white woman ) But I'm not condoning calling people names...or saying it's ok to bully (a whole other subject matter). But sometimes it's better to repeat that phrase to ourselves to get past something we didn't want to see/hear.

Edited November 1, 2011 by myfester

[knowschad]

Careful what you say here. If the OP doesn't like what you say instead of responding in an open forum to discuss it she reports you to GC and you get a nasty gram. So much for open and free communication and tongue in cheek humor.

I think that comment was uncalled for. There is nothing in what Brooklyn51 said that would imply anything of the sort! That is the sort of post that gives this forum the bad name that it has.

 

Might want to wait for him to clarify what he's talking about. Seeing as nasty grams have not been mentioned before, I'm guessing he got one and therefore is speaking from experience. I'm just not sure why anything he said would trigger a nasty gram. I am curious what he's talking about.

 

I won't wait for him to clarify anything. If I misunderstood it, there is a very good chance that the OP also misunderstood it. The OP was clearly not in favor of a certain cache name, and stated as much, but there was absolutely no suggestion of reporting anyone to GC. That was clearly uncalled for, IMO.

 

Exactly. Which is why I don't think he would pull it out of thin air. I could be wrong, but it seems like the OP may have emailed Walt's Hunting and thus prompted his post. So it might be a good idea to wait and see why Walt's said what he said.

 

Considering that the only other post here by Walts Hunting was (unedited) "Put them on your ignore list and move on.", I don't think that would be the case.

[+Gan Dalf]

 

Girls get the message from a young age, from many places that they are not to do a lot of things that boys can do.

 

Precisely why the differences should be enjoyed and celebrated and not shunned and minimalized.

 

I agree that women are not given the same opportunities as men, there pay is less and in many things more is expected of them then should be. But to deny that men and women are different is just silly.

 

Kids pick up these things. You won't know it at the time, but they are often a lot more observant than you think. And some of it is subliminal, that they won't be aware of, but will form the opinions of society and themselves that last a lifetime.

 

Exactly! In other words, it makes them people, as everyone elses life experiences do. Again, This is no reason to "protect" them from our prejudices. I know that my kids are inteligent enough to understand that not everyone thinks the same way. I just hope that I am a good enough parent to teach them that they are smart enough to know that...

Edited November 1, 2011 by FobesMan

[+GeoBain]

Careful what you say here. If the OP doesn't like what you say instead of responding in an open forum to discuss it she reports you to GC and you get a nasty gram. So much for open and free communication and tongue in cheek humor.

I think that comment was uncalled for. There is nothing in what Brooklyn51 said that would imply anything of the sort! That is the sort of post that gives this forum the bad name that it has.

 

Might want to wait for him to clarify what he's talking about. Seeing as nasty grams have not been mentioned before, I'm guessing he got one and therefore is speaking from experience. I'm just not sure why anything he said would trigger a nasty gram. I am curious what he's talking about.

 

I won't wait for him to clarify anything. If I misunderstood it, there is a very good chance that the OP also misunderstood it. The OP was clearly not in favor of a certain cache name, and stated as much, but there was absolutely no suggestion of reporting anyone to GC. That was clearly uncalled for, IMO.

 

Exactly. Which is why I don't think he would pull it out of thin air. I could be wrong, but it seems like the OP may have emailed Walt's Hunting and thus prompted his post. So it might be a good idea to wait and see why Walt's said what he said.

 

Considering that the only other post here by Walts Hunting was (unedited) "Put them on your ignore list and move on.", I don't think that would be the case.

 

I'm aware of this fact and I am also aware that his second post makes no sense whatsoever unless he was emailed by the OP, so I will wait and hopefully he'll fill us in on why he posted that.

 

Seriously? All you said in this thread was:

 

Put them on your ignore list and move on.

[+Brooklyn51]

Just to clarify: this is the first post I have ever made to this forum. (My husband posts on occasion.)

 

I didn't know you could report someone on this forum nor would I. But especially Walt's Hunting who has contributed little to this discussion. And, if I would have emailed someone separately--which I would never do--again, he would be low on my list.

 

I asked what I thought was a legitimate question. The discussion ensued from there. I find it all very intersting.