Questionable cache titles

[+Brooklyn51]

Our team (husband and wife) has only been caching for two and a half years. We have caches in our area that have titles that might be considered sexist, but figured these were older caches and that maybe this sport started as a male dominated hobby so the sensitivity or empathy to titles that seemingly objectify females was never questioned. However, we don't have young children but in all honesty if we did, I would not like to be the one having to explain what the titles meant.

 

Regretfully, I never raised the issue because of our novice status and I hadn't noticed any other caches that fit the criteria.

 

Just recently, however, two more caches were published that I was surprised got past the reviewer due to their titles--one blantantly sexist and the other, a sexual induendo. Given the other rules that Groundspeak has about sexual content, logging, etc., and their effort to promote geocaching as a family friendly hobby, I wondered if these should have been questioned. The one cache title was part of an existing series, but definitely could have been modified to accomplish getting its connection to that series across.

 

I was just wondering if anyone else feels this way? Or is it just me? BTw - this is being written by the female half of the team.

[+lamoracke]

kinda hard to give an opinion without knowing the names. Personally, no cache title has ever offended me that I have seen, but am not easily offended by general stuff.

 

A little sexual innuendo that a kid would not understand would not bother me.

 

We have one cache in our area that was changed after publication (FTF gets to name) which implies a girl on girl on girl three some, but, its not explicit or anything.

[+FunnyNose]

I've always thought that name of this cache was questionable, it is however the name of the town. Last time I was in Europe I was thinking of getting that cache but it was to far out of the way.

[+CanadianRockies]

In the past, Groundspeak has requested changes to cache descriptions and titles they felt were inappropriate (and even archived those where modifications were not forthcoming). If you believe a title or content is inappropriate, then I would suggest that you email the local reviewer and/or a Groundspeak lackey. Just be aware that their definition of "inappropriate" might not match your own.

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

I guess this one is sexist, but everybody seems to enjoy the joke http://coord.info/GC2YT1D

[+Brooklyn51]

I guess this one is sexist, but everybody seems to enjoy the joke http://coord.info/GC2YT1D

 

Are you sure about "everybody"?

Edited October 31, 2011 by Brooklyn51

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

I guess this one is sexist, but everybody seems to enjoy the joke http://coord.info/GC2YT1D

 

Are you sure about "everyone"?

Everyone who has found it. Does it offend you?

Edit: The person the joke was on liked it.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Jumpin' Jack Cache

[+Brooklyn51]

I guess this one is sexist, but everybody seems to enjoy the joke http://coord.info/GC2YT1D

 

Are you sure about "everyone"?

Everyone who has found it. Does it offend you?

 

Yes

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

I guess this one is sexist, but everybody seems to enjoy the joke http://coord.info/GC2YT1D

 

Are you sure about "everyone"?

Everyone who has found it. Does it offend you?

 

Yes

 

Sorry, but I think you need a winter coat of fur or thicker skin.

[+Brooklyn51]

I guess this one is sexist, but everybody seems to enjoy the joke http://coord.info/GC2YT1D

 

Are you sure about "everyone"?

Everyone who has found it. Does it offend you?

 

Yes

 

Sorry, but I think you need a winter coat of fur or thicker skin.

 

This is exactly the answer I would expect, but that sidesteps the issue. If you were caching with your young daughter would you like to explain this to her? Would you tell her to get thicker skin? Would you want her to get the idea that she is substandard?

 

But the issue isn't these two caches it's the overall idea that it can send a bad message--one I'm sure any reasonable, tolerant person wouldn't want to send--especially those at Groundspeak and the caching community as a whole.

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

I guess this one is sexist, but everybody seems to enjoy the joke http://coord.info/GC2YT1D

 

Are you sure about "everyone"?

Everyone who has found it. Does it offend you?

 

Yes

 

Sorry, but I think you need a winter coat of fur or thicker skin.

 

This is exactly the answer I would expect, but that sidesteps the issue. If you were caching with your young daughter would you like to explain this to her? Would you tell her to get thicker skin? Would you want her to get the idea that she is substandard?

 

But the issue isn't these two caches it's the overall idea that it can send a bad message--one I'm sure any reasonable, tolerant person wouldn't want to send--especially those at Groundspeak and the caching community as a whole.

 

My young daughter would get the joke, she has a sense of humor (I do actually have one, if you count 14 as "young"). Sometimes a joke is just a joke.

 

I don't know which cache(s) set you off, but if that one offends you, you might need to relax your "getting upset" meter.

[+Shop99er]

 

I was just wondering if anyone else feels this way? Or is it just me? BTw - this is being written by the female half of the team.

 

After having read through the thread, and looked at the linked caches,I have to say...

 

It's just you.

 

You've been around long enought to know a joke when you see one. TIme to get of your moral high-horse, and enjoy the game for what it is. A game.

 

I have no doubt that this is just the answer you would expect from a 50+ Y/O male that doesn't believe in PC.

[+Walts Hunting]

Put them on your ignore list and move on.

[+Lil Devil]

Since the OP gave two examples, but not GC Codes, I did some digging. I looked at the area of her first hide, which is presumably close to home, and sorted the results by hide date, since she said these caches were recent. I'm pretty sure this is the "innuendo" caches she refers to. Being male, I'll admit I giggled, but would have no problem talking about it with my granddaughter. I couldn't figure out what the "blatantly sexist" one is, but maybe I'm searching in the wrong area.

[+Manville Possum]

I guess this one is sexist, but everybody seems to enjoy the joke http://coord.info/GC2YT1D

 

Are you sure about "everyone"?

Everyone who has found it. Does it offend you?

 

Yes

 

Sorry, but I think you need a winter coat of fur or thicker skin.

 

This is exactly the answer I would expect, but that sidesteps the issue. If you were caching with your young daughter would you like to explain this to her? Would you tell her to get thicker skin? Would you want her to get the idea that she is substandard?

 

But the issue isn't these two caches it's the overall idea that it can send a bad message--one I'm sure any reasonable, tolerant person wouldn't want to send--especially those at Groundspeak and the caching community as a whole.

 

My young daughter would get the joke, she has a sense of humor (I do actually have one, if you count 14 as "young"). Sometimes a joke is just a joke.

 

I don't know which cache(s) set you off, but if that one offends you, you might need to relax your "getting upset" meter.

I just showed my 10 YO daughter that listing and she thought it was funny. We think that her older brother could find that cache. Anyway, it's a listing that we would seek as a family.

[+Don_J]

I guess this one is sexist, but everybody seems to enjoy the joke http://coord.info/GC2YT1D

 

Are you sure about "everyone"?

Everyone who has found it. Does it offend you?

 

Yes

 

Sorry, but I think you need a winter coat of fur or thicker skin.

 

This is exactly the answer I would expect, but that sidesteps the issue. If you were caching with your young daughter would you like to explain this to her? Would you tell her to get thicker skin? Would you want her to get the idea that she is substandard?

 

But the issue isn't these two caches it's the overall idea that it can send a bad message--one I'm sure any reasonable, tolerant person wouldn't want to send--especially those at Groundspeak and the caching community as a whole.

 

"Generic Cache Name #1,096,582", gets a bit boring after a while.

[+Huntleigh]

I guess this one is sexist, but everybody seems to enjoy the joke http://coord.info/GC2YT1D

 

Are you sure about "everyone"?

Everyone who has found it. Does it offend you?

 

Yes

 

Sorry, but I think you need a winter coat of fur or thicker skin.

 

This is exactly the answer I would expect, but that sidesteps the issue. If you were caching with your young daughter would you like to explain this to her? Would you tell her to get thicker skin? Would you want her to get the idea that she is substandard?

 

 

Have you read the logs?

 

I would suggest there is a bit more to this cache than its title. Reading between the lines there is some joke between the title and the hide itself.

[+Roman!]

I guess this one is sexist, but everybody seems to enjoy the joke http://coord.info/GC2YT1D

 

Are you sure about "everyone"?

Everyone who has found it. Does it offend you?

 

Yes

 

Sorry, but I think you need a winter coat of fur or thicker skin.

 

This is exactly the answer I would expect, but that sidesteps the issue. If you were caching with your young daughter would you like to explain this to her? Would you tell her to get thicker skin? Would you want her to get the idea that she is substandard?

 

 

Have you read the logs?

 

I would suggest there is a bit more to this cache than its title. Reading between the lines there is some joke between the title and the hide itself.

 

Understanding someone else's view is a lot of work, it's easier to get offended, makes a great excuse for war too.

 

Just looking through some caches I found "Beaver Surprise" really grabs my attention, especially since tonight I get my birthday present from my wife.

[+fizzymagic]

Would you want her to get the idea that she is substandard?

It's sad that there are parents like you out there who would let such a title make their daughter feel "substandard."

 

I don't think geocaching is likely to be a very good activity for one with your delicate sensibilities.

[+The Real Boudica.]

Would you want her to get the idea that she is substandard?

It's sad that there are parents like you out there who would let such a title make their daughter feel "substandard."

 

I don't think geocaching is likely to be a very good activity for one with your delicate sensibilities.

 

I would want her to get the idea to rise above anything like this she comes across in life! Offensive comments are one thing, jokes are just that, even offensive ones!

 

I thought it was funny but then the mirror reminded me I'm not a young girl anymore

[+t4e]

 

I was just wondering if anyone else feels this way? ... BTw - this is being written by the female half of the team.

 

short answer, NO, i don't feel that way and this is written by a female

[+Chokecherry]

 

I was just wondering if anyone else feels this way? ... BTw - this is being written by the female half of the team.

 

short answer, NO, i don't feel that way and this is written by a female

 

As a feminist and female I don't feel that way either. About a couple of the caches listed on this site. I've purposely gone out to find at least one cache with a questionable title and plan on doing that again next year with another cache with a questionable title. I love the play on words some of these cachers use in their titles. "So easy a girl could find it" doesn't bother me in the least. Disney movies and pretty much any children's show has comparable issues with gender inequality. Most parents of female children find a way to parent around these issues.

[+t4e]

 

I was just wondering if anyone else feels this way? ... BTw - this is being written by the female half of the team.

 

short answer, NO, i don't feel that way and this is written by a female

 

As a feminist and female I don't feel that way either. About a couple of the caches listed on this site. I've purposely gone out to find at least one cache with a questionable title and plan on doing that again next year with another cache with a questionable title. I love the play on words some of these cachers use in their titles. "So easy a girl could find it" doesn't bother me in the least. Disney movies and pretty much any children's show has comparable issues with gender inequality. Most parents of female children find a way to parent around these issues.

 

i don't understand why its always the female side that always seems to be offended

the truth is we are physically and mentally designed different and to serve different purposes...there is one amazing book out there written by a two psychologists, husband and wife, it offers a great insight into why we are different

Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps: How We're Different and What to Do About It

 

there are naturally things that a man can do and a women can't and vice-verse...why is it so hard for some to get their head around it?

why does it have to be seen as being substandard?

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

i don't understand why its always the female side that always seems to be offended

the truth is we are physically and mentally designed different and to serve different purposes...there is one amazing book out there written by a two psychologists, husband and wife, it offers a great insight into why we are different

Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps: How We're Different and What to Do About It

 

there are naturally things that a man can do and a women can't and vice-verse...why is it so hard for some to get their head around it?

why does it have to be seen as being substandard?

Quite well put t4e....

 

Perhaps that last line is also part of the equation... the differences of thought patterns, male v. female. It just may be by design. Who knows for sure?

 

Now... back to caching....

I have noticed some cache names/titles that I thought to be questionable, but mostly I just passed it off as a personality issue of the hider. Not really that they had intended to make it objectionable, but more-so that they speak/think in those terms as a matter of habit, unaware (or not thinking) that many others do not. Then too, it is entirely possible they had meant it exactly as what others perceive it as.

Ya just never know for sure.

More than likely, there have been a goodly number of truly objectionable titles attempted, having been throttled by reviewers.

[Mr.Yuck]

Hmm. The OP is not from where I expected them to be from. Nor are they from the west coast, where in just the past month I remember a conversation about some guy who had dozens (maybe even 100) caches which all had sexual innuendo as cache names. I was one of the very few in the thread who found them to be inappropriate for a family friendly website. Then again, my opinion was probably swayed by the fact they were mostly parking lot micros.

 

So I'll offer you some moderate support, in a thread where you're likely to get very little.

[+Brooklyn51]

Thank you for your discussion. At the onset I was hoping for a more global approach to this questionnot about me or these particular two caches, but just in general, is it okay to name caches with racist/sexual/sexist overtones?

 

This thread has answered that it is okay, at least for a dozen of you (with the exception of CanadianRockies--who was trying to be helpful, thank you).

 

And although we will have to agree to disagree, in the end I won the bet because I predicted each of your answers:

 

Personally, no cache title has ever offended me that I have seen, but am not easily offended by general stuff. (Interpret: It doesnt bother me, why should it you?)

 

I guess this one is sexist, but everybody seems to enjoy the joke (Interpret: EVERYBODY else is okay with it, its just a joke.)

 

The person the joke was on liked it. (Interpret: Its okay as long as the joke is about someone else and they were okay with it.)

 

Sorry, but I think you need a winter coat of fur or thicker skin. (Interpret: I need to toughen up and grow a settake it like a man.)

 

My young daughter would get the joke, she has a sense of humor (I do actually have one, if you count 14 as "young"). Sometimes a joke is just a joke. (Interpret: You have no sense of humor, so its your problem. BTW, in this you could not be more wrong. I have a wonderful sense of humorread my logsbut again, this wasnt about me. It was about the greater question.)

 

Time to get off your moral high-horse, and enjoy the game for what it is. A game.I have no doubt that this is just the answer you would expect from a 50+ Y/O male that doesn't believe in PC. (Interpret: Leave your beliefs and morals at the door to play this game. Not sure how to interpret the rest, except to say that youre right about expecting that answer from you.)

 

Put them on your ignore list and move on. (Interpret: When you see something amiss, just ignore it so the rest of us dont have to think about it.)

 

Being male, I'll admit I giggled, but would have no problem talking about it with my granddaughter. (Interpret: Id like to be the mouse in the corner when you explain what a beaver is to your granddaughter. I wonder how that conversation will go.)

 

I just showed my 10 YO daughter that listing and she thought it was funny. (Interpret: on the question of sexism, I just seek the advice of a 10 year old. Really?)

 

"Generic Cache Name #1,096,582", gets a bit boring after a while. (Interpret: Once again, so in an attempt to be creative, sexism and racism is okay?oh, thats right, as long as its a joke.)

 

I would suggest there is a bit more to this cache than its title. Reading between the lines there is some joke between the title and the hide itself. (Interpret: Its an okay title as long as you read the rest of the description and the logs. Then it isnt sexist.)

 

Understanding someone else's view is a lot of work, it's easier to get offended, makes a great excuse for war too. (Interpret: Thanks for understanding my point of view.)

 

Just looking through some caches I found "Beaver Surprise" really grabs my attention, especially since tonight I get my birthday present from my wife. (Interpret: This speaks volumes…yikes!)

 

It's sad that there are parents like you out there who would let such a title make their daughter feel "substandard." I don't think geocaching is likely to be a very good activity for one with your delicate sensibilities. (Interpret: This is classic: Get personal and try a personal assaultthat will show her. Sorry, I do have thick skin. And you dont know me or of my skills as a parent, so your attack fails. What you have basically said, however, is put up or shut up or stay out of the mens club.)

 

I would want her to get the idea to rise above anything like this she comes across in life! Offensive comments are one thing, jokes are just that, even offensive ones! (Interpret: Again, dont say anything and hopefully it will go away. But sadly, it hasnt gone away. And in this I am 100% correct. Women and minorities have heard these same excuses/arguments for centuries. These answers are neither original nor surprising. I, myself, will continue to ask the question, and I will teach my children to do the same.)

 

----

I still have the question as it pertains to a hobby that I love and try to promote as a family activityview my hides. But perhaps this is not the right forum. Thank you for showing me the error in my ways.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Brooklyn51

[+ThePetersTrio]

I never understand the, "I didn't get the answer I was looking for when I posed my question so now I'm just going to take my ball and go home" response.

 

My question to the OP - what is it that you would like to see done about these caches that are offending your sensibilities?

[+BigChiefS4]

Since the OP gave two examples, but not GC Codes, I did some digging. I looked at the area of her first hide, which is presumably close to home, and sorted the results by hide date, since she said these caches were recent. I'm pretty sure this is the "innuendo" caches she refers to. Being male, I'll admit I giggled, but would have no problem talking about it with my granddaughter. I couldn't figure out what the "blatantly sexist" one is, but maybe I'm searching in the wrong area.

 

I have found this cache just this past weekend. There is a stuffed beaver in the cache. There is sexual innuendo there only if you want it to be there. It is located in a park where there are plenty of real beavers. I found numerous trees that were felled by them.

 

I was at the Halloween Hoopla when this was found with a large group of 20-30 people. Yes, jokes were flying. No, nobody got offended. If you were to find it by yourself, there would be no joke, per se. Nothing to see here, move along.

Edited October 31, 2011 by BigChiefS4

[+Brooklyn51]

I never understand the, "I didn't get the answer I was looking for when I posed my question so now I'm just going to take my ball and go home" response.

 

My question to the OP - what is it that you would like to see done about these caches that are offending your sensibilities?

 

I'm not taking my ball and going home. I think my question should have better been asked directly to Groundspeak in that they make the rules and in their other rulings seem to be concerned about objectionable content associated with caches--all caches, not just a few. Again, the question is: Is it okay to use questionable wording when naming a cache? I can assume you and most of the other posters think that it is okay. So be it for you. I still think it's a legitimate question.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Brooklyn51

[knowschad]

I guess this one is sexist, but everybody seems to enjoy the joke http://coord.info/GC2YT1D

 

Are you sure about "everybody"?

 

"Everybody" does not need to enjoy everything. In fact, not everybody will enjoy everything. For example, PETA seems to think the whales in Seaworld are slaves. Does that mean that we should release the whales?

[+dfx]

I think my question should have better been asked directly to Groundspeak in that they make the rules and in their other rulings seem to be concerned about objectionable content associated with caches

 

That's undoubtedly correct. But since you haven't even told us what you consider to be "questionable", I'm not sure what kind of answers you had expected here.

[+Brooklyn51]

I think my question should have better been asked directly to Groundspeak in that they make the rules and in their other rulings seem to be concerned about objectionable content associated with caches

 

That's undoubtedly correct. But since you haven't even told us what you consider to be "questionable", I'm not sure what kind of answers you had expected here.

 

Since I didn't want this to be a discussion about any specific wording of any particular cache, I intentionally didn't include the names of the recent ones. But for the record, I refer to caches that use female and male genitalia (or the slang for them) in their titles, ones that give gender superiority to one sex or another, ones that make jokes at the expense of a race, ones that could easily have been creatively named otherwise. I guess I didn't make myself clear, but again, I sense that you all feel it's okay. So is that the answer?

[+M 5]

Thank you for your discussion. At the onset I was hoping for a more global approach to this question—not about me or these particular two caches, but just in general, “is it okay to name caches with racist/sexual/sexist overtones?”

 

This thread has answered that it is okay, at least for a dozen of you (with the exception of CanadianRockies--who was trying to be helpful, thank you).

 

And although we will have to agree to disagree, in the end I won the bet because I predicted each of your answers:

 

“Personally, no cache title has ever offended me that I have seen, but am not easily offended by general stuff.” (Interpret: It doesn’t bother me, why should it you?)

 

“I guess this one is sexist, but everybody seems to enjoy the joke” (Interpret: EVERYBODY else is okay with it, it’s just a joke.)

 

“The person the joke was on liked it.” (Interpret: It’s okay as long as the joke is about someone else and they were okay with it.)

 

“Sorry, but I think you need a winter coat of fur or thicker skin.” (Interpret: I need to toughen up and grow a set—take it like a man.)

 

“My young daughter would get the joke, she has a sense of humor (I do actually have one, if you count 14 as "young"). Sometimes a joke is just a joke.” (Interpret: You have no sense of humor, so it’s your problem. BTW, in this you could not be more wrong. I have a wonderful sense of humor—read my logs—but again, this wasn’t about me. It was about the greater question.)

 

“Time to get off your moral high-horse, and enjoy the game for what it is. A game.—I have no doubt that this is just the answer you would expect from a 50+ Y/O male that doesn't believe in PC.” (Interpret: Leave your beliefs and morals at the door to play this game. Not sure how to interpret the rest, except to say that you’re right about expecting that answer from you.)

 

“Put them on your ignore list and move on.” (Interpret: When you see something amiss, just ignore it so the rest of us don’t have to think about it.)

 

“Being male, I'll admit I giggled, but would have no problem talking about it with my granddaughter.” (Interpret: I’d like to be the mouse in the corner when you explain what a beaver is to your granddaughter. I wonder how that conversation will go.)

 

“I just showed my 10 YO daughter that listing and she thought it was funny.” (Interpret: on the question of sexism, I just seek the advice of a 10 year old. Really?)

 

"Generic Cache Name #1,096,582", gets a bit boring after a while.” (Interpret: Once again, so in an attempt to be creative, sexism and racism is okay?—oh, that’s right, as long as it’s a joke.)

 

“I would suggest there is a bit more to this cache than its title. Reading between the lines there is some joke between the title and the hide itself.” (Interpret: It’s an okay title as long as you read the rest of the description and the logs. Then it isn’t sexist.)

 

“Understanding someone else's view is a lot of work, it's easier to get offended, makes a great excuse for war too.” (Interpret: Thanks for understanding my point of view.)

 

“Just looking through some caches I found "Beaver Surprise" really grabs my attention, especially since tonight I get my birthday present from my wife.” (Interpret: This speaks volumes…yikes!)

 

“It's sad that there are parents like you out there who would let such a title make their daughter feel "substandard." I don't think geocaching is likely to be a very good activity for one with your delicate sensibilities. (Interpret: This is classic: Get personal and try a personal assault—that will show her. Sorry, I do have thick skin. And you don’t know me or of my skills as a parent, so your attack fails. What you have basically said, however, is “put up or shut up or stay out of the men’s club.”)

 

“I would want her to get the idea to rise above anything like this she comes across in life! Offensive comments are one thing, jokes are just that, even offensive ones!” (Interpret: Again, don’t say anything and hopefully it will go away. But sadly, it hasn’t gone away. And in this I am 100% correct. Women and minorities have heard these same excuses/arguments for centuries. These answers are neither original nor surprising. I, myself, will continue to ask the question, and I will teach my children to do the same.)

 

----

I still have the question as it pertains to a hobby that I love and try to promote as a family activity—view my hides. But perhaps this is not the right forum. Thank you for showing me the error in my ways.

 

I find it interesting that you quote and counterpoint(not very well I might add) the admitted males or unknown gender posts and leave alone the point/counterpoint with the opposing female posters.

[+ThePetersTrio]

I never understand the, "I didn't get the answer I was looking for when I posed my question so now I'm just going to take my ball and go home" response.

 

My question to the OP - what is it that you would like to see done about these caches that are offending your sensibilities?

 

I'm not taking my ball and going home. I think my question should have better been asked directly to Groundspeak in that they make the rules and in their other rulings seem to be concerned about objectionable content associated with caches--all caches, not just a few. Again, the question is: Is it okay to use questionable wording when naming a cache? I can assume you and most of the other posters think that it is okay. So be it for you. I still think it's a legitimate question.

 

I agree that going through Groundspeak would probably get you closer to finding out what their policy on this subject is. Have you voiced your concerns to the owners of the caches in question?

 

As for your assumption about me, it is really irrelevant. I don't make the rules here. If a cache upset me or I didn't think it was appropriate for my kids then I just wouldn't hunt for it.

 

That being said, I think my parenting philosophy seems to be different than yours. I believe in teaching my children about the reality of the world so that when they go out into it, they are fully prepared (age-appropriately of course). They will come across many people in their lives who have different beliefs about subjects than they do. Some beliefs they will share and some they definitely won't.

 

But I'll say this, I'd rather people are honest about who they are so I can make decisions about whether or not I wish to interact with them. I'm not making a judgment about the caches you are upset with - I don't even know which ones they are, frankly. But even if the COs of those caches had titled them with the intent to offend all women, I'd rather they have free speech to announce that they have those beliefs than to have it hidden. My hunch is that if you spoke directly with the COs you'd get a lot more information about their intent and they'd get a lot more information about how their cache titles may be coming across to the public.

Edited October 31, 2011 by ThePetersTrio

[+dfx]

I think my question should have better been asked directly to Groundspeak in that they make the rules and in their other rulings seem to be concerned about objectionable content associated with caches

 

That's undoubtedly correct. But since you haven't even told us what you consider to be "questionable", I'm not sure what kind of answers you had expected here.

 

Since I didn't want this to be a discussion about any specific wording of any particular cache, I intentionally didn't include the names of the recent ones. But for the record, I refer to caches that use female and male genitalia (or the slang for them) in their titles, ones that give gender superiority to one sex or another, ones that make jokes at the expense of a race, ones that could easily have been creatively named otherwise. I guess I didn't make myself clear, but again, I sense that you all feel it's okay. So is that the answer?

 

I was more looking for specific examples. I can't tell you if I'm ok with something if you don't tell me what it is. Vague descriptions can only result in vague answers. Assuming Lil Devil above hit the nail on the head, I'd have to say that I don't see the problem. Any adult should be able to take a joke (even if they don't find it funny themselves), and an innocent kid wouldn't even suspect that there's any innuendo to it, unless they already know about it anyway. So what's the big deal?

[+roundnround we go]

I'm not taking my ball and going home. I think my question should have better been asked directly to Groundspeak in that they make the rules and in their other rulings seem to be concerned about objectionable content associated with caches--all caches, not just a few. Again, the question is: Is it okay to use questionable wording when naming a cache? I can assume you and most of the other posters think that it is okay. So be it for you. I still think it's a legitimate question.

 

there are so many people that use this site that it would be impossible to make everyone happy. you need to think that what is questionable to you might not be to someone else and there could be things that others find questionable that you don't. the only way to keep from publishing caches with names that others might find questionable is to stop letting cachers name their own cache and go with something generic like the GC#.

 

If you are worried about taking you family to a cache that you find questionable then the best thing you can do is filter out the caches that don't fit your perception of a good family oriented cache and put the others on ignore.

[knowschad]

I guess this one is sexist, but everybody seems to enjoy the joke http://coord.info/GC2YT1D

 

Are you sure about "everyone"?

Everyone who has found it. Does it offend you?

 

Yes

 

Sorry, but I think you need a winter coat of fur or thicker skin.

 

This is exactly the answer I would expect, but that sidesteps the issue. If you were caching with your young daughter would you like to explain this to her?

I think I'd explain to her the need for a sense of humor, Brooklyn51. Now, that may not be true of some of the other caches that you have in mind, but as far as "So Easy Even a Woman Can Find It"... women have just as many things that they say about us men.

 

You say that all of the answers you got were quite predictable... that is probably because most people feel that way. Don't blame the forum... I suspect that you'd get the same answer if you asked it on MNGCA or at an event, as long as you let the responders (many of whom you know) be anonymous.

[+The Real Boudica.]

I was just wondering if anyone else feels this way? Or is it just me? BTw - this is being written by the female half of the team.

It does seem from the question that you were asking if other people thought it was ok. Not if it was ok in general. Without any specific examples from you, they, & I were responding to the one suggested by Lil devil.

 

You make some fair points ''When you see something amiss, just ignore it so the rest of us don’t have to think about it' 'Once again, so in an attempt to be creative, sexism and racism is okay?—oh, that’s right, as long as it’s a joke.''

 

Of course not, none of these things are ok when meant to cause offence, but if something is in context of humour most people are open minded enough to see it that way, there will be the occasion when even a joke is out of line and then people need to have that pointed out to them, so do so, I would. Now you have given vague examples then I would say that cache titles that use easily understandable slang for our nether regions are probably out of order in a family inclusive hobby (but I would propably still answer with 'I think its funny'). I don't think the example is a problem, small children probably wouldn't understand this and older ones would be able to take it with the humour I assume it was meant. Racist slurs are also out of order in my book but I am trying and failing to come up with any racist words or comments that any right minded person or reviewer would think was ok to use in a cache name or description, think we might need specific examples there. Likewise gender superiority - unless its downright offensive (again I cant think of any thing I would imagine possible) and the example given is not, then I think t4e hits the nail on the head - tit for tat - its part of the way the genders interact.

 

But I would have to say given Lil Devils example - we all know women are better at finding things

 

@ M5 I'd hoped it was pretty clear I am female

[cezanne]

i don't understand why its always the female side that always seems to be offended

the truth is we are physically and mentally designed different and to serve different purposes...there is one amazing book out there written by a two psychologists, husband and wife, it offers a great insight into why we are different

Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps: How We're Different and What to Do About It

 

there are naturally things that a man can do and a women can't and vice-verse...why is it so hard for some to get their head around it?

why does it have to be seen as being substandard?

 

I do not agree with the "substandard point of view", but the book mentioned above contains many simplifications (maybe because it is written to be bought by a large audience).

I know many women who can read maps much better than men. What plays the essential role is the individual and not its gender.

 

Cezanne

[+uxorious]

Most of these answers seem to be about the sexist question, not the racist question.

 

I personally have no problem with most jokes that have a sexist tone. However, I do not put up with any jokes of a racist nature.In my opinion these are very different animals. If a cache title felt racist to me, I would report it.

[+geodarts]

I think I'd explain to her the need for a sense of humor, Brooklyn51. Now, that may not be true of some of the other caches that you have in mind, but as far as "So Easy Even a Woman Can Find It"... women have just as many things that they say about us men.

 

If I found a title questionable, I would not explain the need for a sense of humor to my daughter -- she has a great sense of humor that I appreciate -- but I probably would tell her that some people's idea of a joke is not that funny and best ignored in this situation. . . . and we might proceed to do just that. Meanwhile, I could ask her to take out the compass that she wanted for birthday and help me find a cache that requires its use.

 

I have been on both sides of the PC debate. I have listened to a progressive radio host (Stephanie Miller) make jokes about beavers and thought that she should be invited to host a local beaver festival that takes place near a beaver cache. Last Saturday I saw a comedian draw a line across the stage and joke about how the San Francisco audience would not cross it. I enjoy many people who push that line, but I have also been called Custer by Native Americans and did not find it all that funny.

 

Certainly, women and men, family members, gays and straights, whites and blacks may say many things to each other about themselves or others. Sometimes it can be very funny, but at the same time, it could be best unsaid in other environments. Personally, if I would not say it at work, I probably would not put it in a cache title. But to others, a cache is a perfectly good place to discuss certain deeds. I suppose context is everything and a cache owner, like any other public speaker, should be aware of the audience.

 

Usually when people tell others that they need to get a sense of humor after making a comment, I wonder if it was something that needed to be said. Whether it needed to be said in a cache title is something for the CO to decide. Whether it should be said in a cache title is something I can leave for Groundspeak to decide if it is significant enough to be brought to their attention. Whether I want to look for a particular cache is completely up to me.

Edited October 31, 2011 by geodarts

[+Catydid]

Well, the consensus here seems to be that it is definitely okay to be sexist (when in the great majority of cases, it is directed toward the female sex) but it is certainly politically incorrect to be racist. After all, us girls have grinned and accepted it all our lives. If we don't, we certainly aren't being good sports. As a matter of fact, we have gotten so used to it that we don't even notice it anymore (most of us.) It is just 'funny' now. We even tell our daughters to laugh at it, too. After all, who would want an uppity daughter? She just wouldn't fit in. Yes, I saw that cache referencing something so easy, even a girl could do it. I have been sufficiently brainwashed to think it was acceptable and did not take offense. After all, I need to be a good sport.

[+Ike 13]

It's impossible to say whether the titles are offensive without seeing them. I know you want this to be generic but different people find different things offensive. If you really feel they are then use the contact@geocaching.com. If the title has not been changed after review I doubt anything will happen. But since COs can change the title and description after review then maybe the reviewer did not know.

 

The Beaver cache linked is sexual innuendo, which to me means that it can be taken two ways. 1) Innocently; example a beaver is just a furry animal. 2) Dirty; this part is usually only picked up by adults who know the alternate meaning. Kids know the innocent definition so there's no need to give them the other. When they get old enough they'll figure out the other.

[knowschad]

Well, the consensus here seems to be that it is definitely okay to be sexist

I think the consensus is that the caches in question are not sexist, not that it is okay to be sexist.

[+geodarts]

Most of these answers seem to be about the sexist question, not the racist question.

 

I personally have no problem with most jokes that have a sexist tone. However, I do not put up with any jokes of a racist nature.In my opinion these are very different animals. If a cache title felt racist to me, I would report it.

 

Why do you make a distinction?

[+niraD]

Well, the consensus here seems to be that it is definitely okay to be sexist

I reread this thread. I don't get that impression at all.

 

It isn't a question about whether it's okay to be sexist (or racist, but most of the discussion has been about sexism). There seems to be agreement that real sexism is bad.

 

It's a question about whether certain cache names, jokes, etc. are sexist. That's where the disagreement lies.

 

And for some reason, I am reminded of a certain motivational poster with the following caption below a photo of a woman volleyball player:

You run like a girl.

You hit like a girl.

You throw like a girl.

YOU SERVE 60 MPH

IN THEIR FACE

LIKE A

GIRL

But that was probably a sexist poster, right?

[+Chokecherry]

Well, the consensus here seems to be that it is definitely okay to be sexist (when in the great majority of cases, it is directed toward the female sex) but it is certainly politically incorrect to be racist. After all, us girls have grinned and accepted it all our lives. If we don't, we certainly aren't being good sports. As a matter of fact, we have gotten so used to it that we don't even notice it anymore (most of us.) It is just 'funny' now. We even tell our daughters to laugh at it, too. After all, who would want an uppity daughter? She just wouldn't fit in. Yes, I saw that cache referencing something so easy, even a girl could do it. I have been sufficiently brainwashed to think it was acceptable and did not take offense. After all, I need to be a good sport.

 

Knowing that as females we say as much if not more derogatory stuff about males in a variety of ways I don't see this remotely as being derogatory toward women. Again, coming from a feminist stand point, and also coming from the stand point that I have found a similarly titled cache with a male as the subject and not "girl." I'm also the same person who regularly makes light of the school mascot which is a beaver. Again to anybody not knowledgeable about slang as far as they know I'm talking about the furry woodland creature. So I find that cache hilarious as well. It's all in the meaning you place behind it. I make a choice to put very little meaning behind these things and instead choose to have fun. When a real feminist battle comes up then I take a stand but a cache title is hardly a real feminist battle.

 

There's a recently published cache that I saw called little blue pill. It's hilarious to me, derogatory towards men with a specific issue and absolutely meaningless anyone who doesn't know the societal context of the cache title. For all a kid knows it's talking about a candy or something. Though it notes on the page it is not a child friendly cache.

[+Ike 13]

<snip>little blue pill<snip>

What's wrong with taking Aleve I'm confused

[+geodarts]

<snip>little blue pill<snip>

What's wrong with taking Aleve I'm confused

 

"Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; trouble breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue; wheezing); bloody or black, tarry stools; change in the amount of urine produced; chest pain; confusion; dark urine; depression; fainting; fast or irregular heartbeat; fever, chills, or persistent sore throat; loss of appetite; mental or mood changes; numbness of an arm or leg; one-sided weakness; pale stools; red, swollen, blistered, or peeling skin; ringing in the ears; seizures; severe headache or dizziness; severe or persistent stomach pain or nausea; severe vomiting; shortness of breath; sudden or unexplained weight gain; swelling of the hands, legs, or feet; unusual bruising or bleeding; unusual joint or muscle pain; unusual tiredness or weakness; vision or speech changes; vomit that looks like coffee grounds; yellowing of the skin or eyes."

 

All of which seems to me to be standard stuff of many comedic styles.

[+Sol seaker]

Brooklyn,

I think you did a fantastic job in responding to remarks up above.

I'm actually surprised that there is not more intelligence here around this issue. Perhaps that just says who cachers are.

 

For those who don't get it, and say things like, "women say things about men too" have no idea what it's like to be a woman in this society. That's like saying, "Black people in the south, during the slavery years had just as many bad things to say about the people who owned them." There is a basic difference in the two groups. There is also a basic difference in the two groups of men and women.

 

People are no longer socially aware. This is just the way it seems to be anymore. People don't matter anymore in our society. I think it comes from the top and works it's way down. The politicians don't care about people anymore (unless you make over 6 mil a year), and everyone is getting the idea that people and therefore people's feelings really don't matter.

 

People really don't care about other people's feelings.

That's the bottom line here to me.

 

They also are really clueless about women in this society.

Women are not equal here, and so jokes about it are in as bad taste as jokes about black slaves in the south.

Women still make less money for the same job. It's gone up from 50 cents to every man's dollar up to, the last I heard was 60 cents.

Every year there are millions of young girls, including in the US, who have their genitalia mutilated rendering them unable to obtain orgasm. Read that sentence again. Women have equal rights here?

 

There are still many fields that are next to impossible for women to break into. I know a woman who was denied training as an auto mechanic. She was told to go ask 10 shops who would be willing to hire her. Do the men get this treatment when they ask to work in their area of interest?

Another woman I know got training and worked as an airline mechanic. She was very good at what she did, but was bullied by the other mechanics who did not want a woman working there, so badly, that she ended up having to quit.

Women these days not only hold the burden of childbearing, but also of holding a full-time job while being the main person to raise these children.

And then we can talk about battered women. Many women stay with the man because they aren't able to support themselves in this society. Sure you'll argue there are battered men, but it's something like 98% women.And instead of getting help from oppressive men, they are ridiculed like you are likely to do in response to this.

 

This list goes on and on, and I'm not even touching upon a small percentage of what goes on that shows that women are not granted equal treatment.

 

Anyone with any education knows that women are not equal in our society, and therefore, it's inappropriate to joke about these things.

I guess the majority of cachers here are just not educated.