Breaking countries into separate pieces

[+Harry Dolphin]

I have been contemplatng a visit to St Pierre y Miquelon to find a cache in France. St Pierre y Miquelon is an integral part of the Republic of France. It has representatives in the French parliament. It IS part of France. It seems that Groundspeak disagrees with the French government. I saw this notice on a cache that I planned to find on a trip to St Pierre y Miquelon:

Bonjour,

 

Modification de la localisation de la cache. Elle passe de "France" à "St Pierre Miquelon" pour être cohérence avec la dénomination de Groundspeak et les autres caches de ce territoire.

 

I found it bizarre that Groundspeak decided that the part of France known as St Martin was not part of France. I have a photo of me at the "Welcome to France" sign there. But I'm not planning on revisiting St Martin. I was hoping to visit St. Pierre. These are integral parts of France, not territories. How can Groundspeak decide to break countries into separate parts???

 

Will Groundspeak decide that Hawaii is too far from the US, and separate it into a new 'location'???

Get a grip on reality! St Pierre y Miquelon IS part of France. As is St Martin!

Oops. Groundspeak desn't like Alaska. It's now a new country!

[+WRASTRO]

I have been contemplatng a visit to St Pierre y Miquelon to find a cache in France. St Pierre y Miquelon is an integral part of the Republic of France. It has representatives in the French parliament. It IS part of France. It seems that Groundspeak disagrees with the French government. I saw this notice on a cache that I planned to find on a trip to St Pierre y Miquelon:

Bonjour,

 

Modification de la localisation de la cache. Elle passe de "France" à "St Pierre Miquelon" pour être cohérence avec la dénomination de Groundspeak et les autres caches de ce territoire.

 

I found it bizarre that Groundspeak decided that the part of France known as St Martin was not part of France. I have a photo of me at the "Welcome to France" sign there. But I'm not planning on revisiting St Martin. I was hoping to visit St. Pierre. These are integral parts of France, not territories. How can Groundspeak decide to break countries into separate parts???

 

Will Groundspeak decide that Hawaii is too far from the US, and separate it into a new 'location'???

Get a grip on reality! St Pierre y Miquelon IS part of France. As is St Martin!

Oops. Groundspeak desn't like Alaska. It's now a new country!

Doesn't Groundspeak already break up the USA into something typically referred to as states? Perhaps I am not understanding your issue Sir Dolphin.

[+CanadianRockies]

According to Wikipedia, "Saint Pierre and Miquelon...is a self-governing territorial overseas collectivity of France."

 

When a political state is or is not an integral part of another political state isn't black-and-white. Groundspeak has to draw the line somewhere. In this case, they decided to consider St. Pierre and Miquelon as separate from France.

[+JL_HSTRE]

Wikipedia describes St Pierre y Miquelon as a "separate self-governing territorial overseas collectivity" of France.

 

France is located in Europe; St Pierre y Miquelon is in North America. Should a cache in French Guiana in South America (an "overseas department" of France) count as a cache in France? What about a cache in American Samoan counting as a cache in cache in the United States?

 

And to find a cache in France for what? The Souvenir? There is no single US souvenir; they are separate for the different states. To fill in that country on your stats map? Doesn't seem right to me.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Joshism

[+Harry Dolphin]

Doesn't Groundspeak already break up the USA into something typically referred to as states? Perhaps I am not understanding your issue Sir Dolphin.

 

If you find a cache in Florida, you have found a cache in the US. And it colors in the US map. If you find a cache in St Pierre y Miquelon, it is not listed as part of France, and only colors in St Pierre y Miquelon (Groundspeak seems to have missed the 'y'.)

Say you were visiting Hawaii from Japan, and found a cache in Hawaii. This is (for now) part of the US. You have found a US cache! Not true of St. Nartin or St. Pierre. There you have only found a cache in St. Martin or St. Pierre. Not one in France. Groundspeak has violated the French constitution, and declared independency for parts of France.

[+cheech gang]

Maybe a bunch of nanos on the wrought iron fences around several foreign embassies in DC could garner us some additional countries? Just a thought.

[+Michaelcycle]

Groundspeak is not violating anyone's constitution (except maybe upsetting yours, Mr Dolphin.)

 

Nothing is perfect but GS tries to be consistent.

 

I have found caches on St Thomas, USVI. That would not have colored in my US map because GS considers the USVI to be a separate political category from US states. Based on the relationship, I believe that is a reasonable distinction. It also increased my "countries cached count"

 

You can argue the fine political distinctions all you like but I think they made the right call.

[+chuck4564]

I have four finds in Bonaire. Three are listed as Bonaire while the other one is listed as Netherlands Antilles. Go figure.

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

I have been contemplatng a visit to St Pierre y Miquelon to find a cache in France. St Pierre y Miquelon is an integral part of the Republic of France. It has representatives in the French parliament. It IS part of France. It seems that Groundspeak disagrees with the French government. I saw this notice on a cache that I planned to find on a trip to St Pierre y Miquelon:

Bonjour,

 

Modification de la localisation de la cache. Elle passe de "France" à "St Pierre Miquelon" pour être cohérence avec la dénomination de Groundspeak et les autres caches de ce territoire.

 

I found it bizarre that Groundspeak decided that the part of France known as St Martin was not part of France. I have a photo of me at the "Welcome to France" sign there. But I'm not planning on revisiting St Martin. I was hoping to visit St. Pierre. These are integral parts of France, not territories. How can Groundspeak decide to break countries into separate parts???

 

Will Groundspeak decide that Hawaii is too far from the US, and separate it into a new 'location'???

Get a grip on reality! St Pierre y Miquelon IS part of France. As is St Martin!

Oops. Groundspeak desn't like Alaska. It's now a new country!

 

Wanting a new souvi, are ya? Oops, I forgot, you disdain them...must be something else

[+t4e]

Groundspeak is not violating anyone's constitution (except maybe upsetting yours, Mr Dolphin.)

 

 

of course they did, they in effect declaring St Pierre Miquelon a country

[+dfx]

France is located in Europe

 

That's not quite correct. You're thinking of Metropolitan France ("mainland" France), which is indeed located in Europe. But France (the French Republic) is more than just Metropolitan France and it does include several overseas territories.

[+Team Hugs]

Groundspeak is not violating anyone's constitution (except maybe upsetting yours, Mr Dolphin.)

of course they did, they in effect declaring St Pierre Miquelon a country

 

Hurrah! Groundspeak has declared Independence Day for St. Pierre Miquelon! Free caches for everyone!

[4wheelin_fool]

Groundspeak is not violating anyone's constitution (except maybe upsetting yours, Mr Dolphin.)

of course they did, they in effect declaring St Pierre Miquelon a country

 

Hurrah! Groundspeak has declared Independence Day for St. Pierre Miquelon! Free caches for everyone!

 

Break out the freedom fries.

[+t4e]

Groundspeak is not violating anyone's constitution (except maybe upsetting yours, Mr Dolphin.)

of course they did, they in effect declaring St Pierre Miquelon a country

 

Hurrah! Groundspeak has declared Independence Day for St. Pierre Miquelon! Free caches for everyone!

 

well they claim "consitency", not exactly sure to what but where i live caches are in Ontario, Canada whereas the caches in St Pierre Miquelon are in St Pierre Miquelon ...either a new country or countryless, either way is wrong

 

makes me wonder who thinks up those things?...they must have way too much time in their hands and be extremely bored

Edited October 25, 2011 by t4e

[+Coldgears]

Groundspeak is not violating anyone's constitution (except maybe upsetting yours, Mr Dolphin.)

of course they did, they in effect declaring St Pierre Miquelon a country

 

Hurrah! Groundspeak has declared Independence Day for St. Pierre Miquelon! Free caches for everyone!

 

well they claim "consitency", not exactly sure to what but where i live caches are in Ontario, Canada whereas the caches in St Pierre Miquelon are in St Pierre Miquelon ...either a new country or countryless, either way is wrong

 

makes me wonder who thinks up those things?...they must have way too much time in their hands and be extremely bored

I think he's upset that he didn't get to say, "hey I was in france". When he really was in an island over 1000 miles away.

 

Before the question is asked, if I lived in Japan I would NOT say I visited America if I visited Hawaii, and if I lived in The Motherland, I would NOT say I visited America if i visited Alaska.

[+t4e]

 

I think he's upset that he didn't get to say, "hey I was in france". When he really was in an island over 1000 miles away.

 

you are missing the point IT IS FRANCE

 

Before the question is asked, if I lived in Japan I would NOT say I visited America if I visited Hawaii, and if I lived in The Motherland, I would NOT say I visited America if i visited Alaska.

 

huh?

[+dfx]

Before the question is asked, if I lived in Japan I would NOT say I visited America if I visited Hawaii, and if I lived in The Motherland, I would NOT say I visited America if i visited Alaska.

 

No? Well, Groundspeak disagrees with you here. They do see Alaska and Hawaii as part of the USA. For some reason though, they don't see that island as part of France. Nobody knows why.

[+Coldgears]

 

I think he's upset that he didn't get to say, "hey I was in france". When he really was in an island over 1000 miles away.

 

you are missing the point IT IS FRANCE

You missed my point. I realize it is France. I just can't fathom a legitimate reason to argue this. If you lived there and you felt offended that you weren't considered France maybe. Other than that... Not really.

[+Team Hugs]

well they claim "consitency", not exactly sure to what but where i live caches are in Ontario, Canada whereas the caches in St Pierre Miquelon are in St Pierre Miquelon ...either a new country or countryless, either way is wrong

 

makes me wonder who thinks up those things?...they must have way too much time in their hands and be extremely bored

 

Disclaimer: I know absolutely nothing about how Groundspeak makes such decisions. But Groundspeak has to make all sorts of decisions like this all the time --- and most are much more contentious than this one. Every country border is a political judgment --- and if there's a cache near a disputed border, any decision by Groundspeak as to which border it chooses to "recognize" will offend someone.

[knowschad]

And here, I thought it was just the CIA doing that!

[+Alkhalikoi]

Does Guam get you the United States? As a political matter, you are of course correct, but if you look at a few of the competitive travel sites ("Worlds Most Traveled", et al.), there is a reasonable distinction to be made when there is a dramatic geographic -or- political distinction between a separate part of a country. The Falkland Islands gets its own "country" as do Bermuda and the Caymans. I recognize that France has a bit more political integration between its overseas territories and continental France, but this sort of distinction is pretty common. It's *certainly* not unprecedented.

[+hydnsek]

Does Guam get you the United States? As a political matter, you are of course correct, but if you look at a few of the competitive travel sites ("Worlds Most Traveled", et al.), there is a reasonable distinction to be made when there is a dramatic geographic -or- political distinction between a separate part of a country. The Falkland Islands gets its own "country" as do Bermuda and the Caymans. I recognize that France has a bit more political integration between its overseas territories and continental France, but this sort of distinction is pretty common. It's *certainly* not unprecedented.

+1. I'm amazed at the number of folks here who think self-governing territories are part of the parent country - they aren't. Geography really is on the decline (even Wikipedia can help here ).

 

Hawaii is a U.S. state. If you are in Hawaii, you are in the United States, just as if you were in New York or Kansas (the jury's still out on California ). Hawaii has senators and congressmen who form part of the U.S. federal government; its residents vote for the president and abide by U.S. laws. Find a cache there, and you have cached in the U.S.

 

Guam, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands are U.S. territories, not states. They have their own governments, laws, flags, and postage stamps. Find a cache in Guam, and you have cached in Guam, not the U.S. Groundspeak lists them as separate entities, as is appropriate.

 

Similarly, St Pierre & Miquelon is a French territory, not part of France itself. It has its own government, laws, flag and coat of arms, postage stamps, etc. This would not be the case if it were part of France.

[+keehotee]

+1. I'm amazed at the number of folks here who think self-governing territories are part of the parent country - they aren't. Geography really is on the decline

 

Perhaps they'd expect to colour in the UK for finding a cache on Bermuda, too? :laughing:

[+redsox_mark]

Groundspeak does generally treat overseas territories as separate "countries" - so I think the status of St Pierre y Miquelon is consistent and reasonable.

 

There are anomalies out there - for example, Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom; but caches there are listed as Ireland. (I don't want to sidetrack this discussion as to why, but it was done intentionally).

[+t4e]

Does Guam get you the United States? As a political matter, you are of course correct, but if you look at a few of the competitive travel sites ("Worlds Most Traveled", et al.), there is a reasonable distinction to be made when there is a dramatic geographic -or- political distinction between a separate part of a country. The Falkland Islands gets its own "country" as do Bermuda and the Caymans. I recognize that France has a bit more political integration between its overseas territories and continental France, but this sort of distinction is pretty common. It's *certainly* not unprecedented.

+1. I'm amazed at the number of folks here who think self-governing territories are part of the parent country - they aren't. Geography really is on the decline (even Wikipedia can help here ).

 

Similarly, St Pierre & Miquelon is a French territory, not part of France itself. It has its own government, laws, flag and coat of arms, postage stamps, etc. This would not be the case if it were part of France.

 

Wikipedia didn't seem to help your understanding, maybe practice what you preach?

 

The French Republic is further made up of the following overseas administrative divisions:

 

five overseas regions (régions d'outre-mer, or ROM): Guadeloupe, French Guiana, Martinique, Mayotte and Réunion, which have the same status as metropolitan regions.

 

five overseas collectivities (collectivités d'outre-mer, or COM): French Polynesia, Saint-Barthélemy, Saint-Martin, Saint-Pierre and Miquelon and Wallis and Futuna

 

1 sui generis collectivity (collectivité sui generis): New Caledonia, whose status is unique in the French Republic: it is the only French local government which is not a territorial collectivity (although its subdivisions are territorial collectivities). A self-determination referendum is scheduled for 2014 to decide the future status of the New Caledonia.

 

1 overseas territory (territoire d'outre-mer, or TOM): the French Southern and Antarctic Lands, which have no permanent population and no communes.

 

Uninhabited island which belongs directly to the central State public land:

 

General rules

 

Citizens from all parts of France, including the overseas administrative divisions, vote in national elections (presidential, legislative), and all of the collectivities are represented in the Senate.

 

lets see some more:

 

The Prefect of Saint Pierre and Miquelon is appointed by France and represents the Paris government in the territory.[20] He is in charge of national interests, law enforcement, public order and, under the conditions set by the statute of 1985, administrative control.[27] The current prefect is Jean-Régis Borius.[28] The local legislative body, the Territorial Council (French: Conseil Territorial), has 19 members: four councillors from Miquelon-Langlade and 15 from Saint-Pierre.[25] The President of the Territorial Council is the head of a delegation of "France in the name of Saint Pierre and Miquelon" for international events like the annual meetings of NAFO and ICCAT.[25]

 

France is responsible for the defence of the islands.[1] The Maritime Gendarmerie has maintained a patrol boat, the Fulmar, on the islands since 1997.[29][30] Law enforcement in Saint Pierre and Miquelon is the responsibility of a branch of the French Gendarmerie Nationale. There are two police stations in the archipelago.[31]

 

The head of state is President Nicolas Sarkozy of France as represented by Préfet (Prefect) Albert Dupuy (since 10 January 2005). The Prefect is essentially the Governor of the territory.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Groundspeak does generally treat overseas territories as separate "countries" - so I think the status of St Pierre y Miquelon is consistent and reasonable.

 

There are anomalies out there - for example, Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom; but caches there are listed as Ireland. (I don't want to sidetrack this discussion as to why, but it was done intentionally).

 

I doubt that Groundspeak is intentionally making a decision regarding which regions are countries and which are part of another country. What is more likely, is that they're using some other authoritative data source for this information such as the FAO Geopolitical ontology (http://www.fao.org/countryprofiles/geoinfo.asp). The geopoltical ontology is specifically "developed to facilitate data exchange and sharing in a standardized manner among systems managing information about countries and/or regions." and that is exactly what Groundspeak is doing. In the case of St. Pierre y Miquelon, it is designated as a "non-self governing" area. Other areas which are designated "non-self governing" include:

 

* American_Samoa

* Anguilla

* Aruba

* Bermuda

* Bonaire_Sint_Eustatius_and_Saba

* British_Virgin_Islands

* Cayman_Islands

* Curacao

* Falkland_Is

* French_Guiana

* French_Polynesia

* Gibraltar

* Guadeloupe

* Guam

* Martinique

* Montserrat

* Netherlands_Antilles

* New_Caledonia

* Puerto_Rico

* Reunion

* Saint-Martin

* Saint_Barthelemy

* Saint_Helena

* Saint_Pierre_and_Miquelon

* Sint_Maarten

* Turks_and_Caicos_Islands

* United_States_Virgin_Islands

* Wallis_and_Futuna_Is

 

There are three other categories under area/territory are self-governing, other (which is where Antartica is classified) and disputed (no current instances).

[+redsox_mark]

I doubt that Groundspeak is intentionally making a decision regarding which regions are countries and which are part of another country.

 

In the Northern Ireland case, they are. They are purposely treating Ireland as a geographic entity, rather than geo-politically (where Northern Ireland is part of the UK).

The reasons are in this Knowledge Book and This thread

 

But for the "non-self governing" you are probably right. Though there are other "countries" which are not on that list, such as Jersey and Guernsey.

Edited October 25, 2011 by redsox_mark

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I doubt that Groundspeak is intentionally making a decision regarding which regions are countries and which are part of another country.

 

In the Northern Ireland case, they are. They are purposely treating Ireland as a geographic entity, rather than geo-politically (where Northern Ireland is part of the UK).

The reasons are in this Knowledge Book and This thread

 

But for the "non-self governing" you are probably right. Though there are other "countries" which are not on that list, such as Jersey and Guernsey.

 

I know that the FAO geopolitical ontology is not exactly the same as the UN list of countries (http://unstats.un.org/unsd/methods/m49/m49alpha.htm). I was working at FAO a little over a week ago and this issue came up when we working on mapping Agricultural related organizations location information to the geopolitical ontology.

 

In any case, I assume that Groundspeak is still using some sort of authoritative data source for their country/territories list (but not the specific one I identified) with their own documented revisions.

[+redsox_mark]

In any case, I assume that Groundspeak is still using some sort of authoritative data source for their country/territories list (but not the specific one I identified) with their own documented revisions.

 

I agree.

But they make exceptions. Northern Ireland is one.

St Pierre y Miquelon is not.

[+captnemo]

"Coldgears"

 

if I lived in The Motherland, I would NOT say I visited America if i visited Alaska.

But you could claim a virtual since you can see Russia from there.

Edited October 25, 2011 by captnemo

[+NYPaddleCacher]

In any case, I assume that Groundspeak is still using some sort of authoritative data source for their country/territories list (but not the specific one I identified) with their own documented revisions.

 

I agree.

But they make exceptions. Northern Ireland is one.

St Pierre y Miquelon is not.

 

Northern Ireland seems to be the only *documented* exception. I noticed from the "by Country" select list that includes a Country/Territory called "Saba". Since the "Map this Location" link doesn't work I had to do a Google search to see where it was. Saba is a small Caribbean island designated as a "special municipality" of the Netherlands. It does not appear on the list of official countries on the United Nations Statistical Division site. However, the UN site lists "Sark", which is an island in the Channel Islands near Guernsey as a separate entity and Sark doesn't appear on the Groundspeak list. There are 13 geocaches on the island of Sark but they're all listed as "Guernsey".

[+GeoGeeBee]

Y'all should take a look at the list of "Countries" that is used for Ham Radio awards. For their purposes, Alaska and Hawaii are considered distinct countries!

http://www.425dxn.org/dxcc/dxccmain.html

[+briansnat]

I have been contemplatng a visit to St Pierre y Miquelon to find a cache in France. St Pierre y Miquelon is an integral part of the Republic of France. It has representatives in the French parliament. It IS part of France. It seems that Groundspeak disagrees with the French government. I saw this notice on a cache that I planned to find on a trip to St Pierre y Miquelon:

Bonjour,

 

Modification de la localisation de la cache. Elle passe de "France" à "St Pierre Miquelon" pour être cohérence avec la dénomination de Groundspeak et les autres caches de ce territoire.

 

I found it bizarre that Groundspeak decided that the part of France known as St Martin was not part of France. I have a photo of me at the "Welcome to France" sign there. But I'm not planning on revisiting St Martin. I was hoping to visit St. Pierre. These are integral parts of France, not territories. How can Groundspeak decide to break countries into separate parts???

 

Will Groundspeak decide that Hawaii is too far from the US, and separate it into a new 'location'???

Get a grip on reality! St Pierre y Miquelon IS part of France. As is St Martin!

Oops. Groundspeak desn't like Alaska. It's now a new country!

 

On the other hand Groundspeak considers north Jersey and south Jersey to be the same state.

[4wheelin_fool]

There are plenty of Americans, as well as the National Review, that believe Puerto Rico is a separate country.

 

That misinterpretation appears to be a bit more widespread.

[jholly]

I have been contemplatng a visit to St Pierre y Miquelon to find a cache in France. St Pierre y Miquelon is an integral part of the Republic of France. It has representatives in the French parliament. It IS part of France. It seems that Groundspeak disagrees with the French government. I saw this notice on a cache that I planned to find on a trip to St Pierre y Miquelon:

Bonjour,

 

Modification de la localisation de la cache. Elle passe de "France" à "St Pierre Miquelon" pour être cohérence avec la dénomination de Groundspeak et les autres caches de ce territoire.

 

I found it bizarre that Groundspeak decided that the part of France known as St Martin was not part of France. I have a photo of me at the "Welcome to France" sign there. But I'm not planning on revisiting St Martin. I was hoping to visit St. Pierre. These are integral parts of France, not territories. How can Groundspeak decide to break countries into separate parts???

 

Will Groundspeak decide that Hawaii is too far from the US, and separate it into a new 'location'???

Get a grip on reality! St Pierre y Miquelon IS part of France. As is St Martin!

Oops. Groundspeak desn't like Alaska. It's now a new country!

 

On the other hand Groundspeak considers north Jersey and south Jersey to be the same state.

At least they are consistent. For some reason they think Los Angeles and San Francisco are in the same state.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Y'all should take a look at the list of "Countries" that is used for Ham Radio awards. For their purposes, Alaska and Hawaii are considered distinct countries!

http://www.425dxn.org/dxcc/dxccmain.html

 

I recently read Ken Jennings new book (Mapheads) and the talks about various groups such as the "HighPointers", a club for those that want to visit the highest point in each U.S. State. During his discussion he mentions the somewhat arbitrary "lists" that are created by various groups which identify distinct countries, territories, etc. He specifically identifies a web site called MostTraveledPeople.com in which it's members vote on what constitutes a distinct entry on the list. From their website: "According to our members, the world is made up of 872 countries, territories, autonomous regions, enclaves, geographically separated island groups, and major states and provinces."

 

At the top of the list of "Most Traveled People" is "Charles A Veley" who has traveled to 822 of the 872 locations.

 

Back the the HighPointers club (also from Ken's book); when the original founder of the HighPointers club learned that he had terminal cancer it wrote in his will that "I want to be on the mountains". So he collected film canisters, labeled them with the names of the fifty states, and distributed them to club members. When he died nine months later, they honored his last wish by scattering his ashes on the United States Geographic Survey markers atop all fifty high points."

[+sbell111]

Groundspeak is not violating anyone's constitution (except maybe upsetting yours, Mr Dolphin.)

 

 

of course they did, they in effect declaring St Pierre Miquelon a country

I suppose that France could, therefore, declare war on Groundspeak, although I don't have a clue what tptb would do with the country afterwards. Perhaps they could sell it on ebay.

[AZcachemeister]

Wasn't there a guy who bought an island (in the north sea, I think) and declared it to be his own sovereign nation?

What about him?

 

At least whom to ask for permission for the placement should be straightforward.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Wasn't there a guy who bought an island (in the north sea, I think) and declared it to be his own sovereign nation?

What about him?

 

At least whom to ask for permission for the placement should be straightforward.

 

Maybe you're thinking of the island of Sark (mentioned earlier). From the wikipedia page:

 

"In August 1990, an unemployed French nuclear physicist named André Gardes attempted a singlehanded invasion of Sark, armed with a semi-automatic weapon. The night Gardes arrived, he put up signs declaring his intention to take over the island the following day at noon. He was arrested while sitting on a bench, changing the gun's magazine and waiting for noon to arrive, by the island's volunteer constable."

 

As I wrote earlier, there are 12 geocaches on the island of Sark (all found under Guernsey as the country). It doesn't look like any of them might be a hide-a-key under a park bench.

[+sbell111]

I seem to remember a tiny island in the North Sea that some were trying to turn into a country.

 

Edited to add that I was thinking of Sealand, which of course is not really an island.

Edited October 28, 2011 by sbell111

[+fizzymagic]

There are (some) legitimate arguments for splitting countries.

 

For example, I claim that I have cached on 4 continents because I have found caches on the Canary Islands (which are physically right off of Africa but politically part of Spain) and Curacao (which is just off the coast of Venezuela but politically part of the Netherlands Antilles).

 

In both cases the continent for the island is different from that of its political assignment. Geocaching is about location, not politics, so this argument makes sense to me.

 

But I can see the other side, as well. The count of countries is certainly not accurate by United Nations standards.