Should I Move My Cache

[TheGreethams]

I'm relatively new to this Geocaching, and i've had a few reports about a new series of caches I've placed, and it's got my wondering what i should do !!!!

 

OK a bit of background.

 

1) All caches are no public footpaths or public bridleways

2) Caches have been checked and published.

 

The "reported" problem is the link between 1 cache and another, the public footpath marker clearly shows the path going diagonal across a field to the next gate (this is also reported on maps and various websites), some geocachers have encountered problems with the landowner shouting/ranting/raving "got 'off my land etc etc", Whatta' yo doing etcetc ". 1 geocachers even reported spotting police nearby - although gratefully not been approached.

 

This is a new cache that was only published yesterday evening, and i appreciate geocachers like to be the FTF, but is it possible that the landowner was spooked by several Geocachers turning up armed with torches looking for my cachers, or are the landowners guilty of being over zealous.

 

I've placed these caches because i wanted to get involved in the community, not offend anyone (landowners also), so the question is do I move/archive this cache to appaise the landowner and reduce the risk of follow goecachers being verbally abused (and mess up the sequence of the cachers)

 

or do i say ...... "They are placed legally get over it Mr landowner, no one's breaking the law"

 

What's everyone's opinion on this.

 

Mark

[7rxc]

I'm relatively new to this Geocaching, and i've had a few reports about a new series of caches I've placed, and it's got my wondering what i should do !!!!

 

OK a bit of background.

 

1) All caches are no public footpaths or public bridleways

2) Caches have been checked and published.

 

The "reported" problem is the link between 1 cache and another, the public footpath marker clearly shows the path going diagonal across a field to the next gate (this is also reported on maps and various websites), some geocachers have encountered problems with the landowner shouting/ranting/raving "got 'off my land etc etc", Whatta' yo doing etcetc ". 1 geocachers even reported spotting police nearby - although gratefully not been approached.

 

This is a new cache that was only published yesterday evening, and i appreciate geocachers like to be the FTF, but is it possible that the landowner was spooked by several Geocachers turning up armed with torches looking for my cachers, or are the landowners guilty of being over zealous.

 

I've placed these caches because i wanted to get involved in the community, not offend anyone (landowners also), so the question is do I move/archive this cache to appaise the landowner and reduce the risk of follow goecachers being verbally abused (and mess up the sequence of the cachers)

 

or do i say ...... "They are placed legally get over it Mr landowner, no one's breaking the law"

 

What's everyone's opinion on this.

 

Mark

 

Not sure what to say, there has been some history with UK caches on the public walking accesses. The first thing is that this will probably end up moving to the UK forums. You will get some time here though I'm sure. But the expertise with UK caching is mostly on that forum. I remember reading one that was almost an exact match to yours, including the landowner (or tenant). It had something about how the easements were made... and for what purpose. Some I think argued that permission to walk through was not the same as permission to wander about placing and finding geocaches... watching birds and taking pictures another thing all together. You might have simply run into one of those situations where the local permissions are either unclear or perhaps seasonal. THAT is where the local knowledge will come into play. Sometimes the problems are with the geocachers themselves as they go for FTF etc. One thing to bear in mind as you have dealings with the local in question is that things usually slow down after the initial rush... and the sedate pace will quickly return. Whoever maintains the path signage may have some to say as well, sometimes the signs are for off 'farming' seasons etc. but don't apply when say a crop is in the field or livestock. Again a big difference in walking a straight 'diagonal' path to the nearest gate and wandering around freely.

 

Good luck, Mrs B (blorenges) will be along I'm sure, in either forum.

 

Doug 7rxc

Edited October 24, 2011 by 7rxc

[TheGreethams]

Doug 7rxc thanks for the advice.

 

Looking at the OS Maps there is an alternative route that by-passes the field in question, I'll investigate the alternative today and make a decision based on that.

 

Mark

[+keehotee]

 

1) All caches are no public footpaths or public bridleways

2) Caches have been checked and published.

 

The "reported" problem is the link between 1 cache and another, the public footpath marker clearly shows the path going diagonal across a field to the next gate (this is also reported on maps and various websites), some geocachers have encountered problems with the landowner shouting/ranting/raving "got 'off my land etc etc", Whatta' yo doing etcetc ". 1 geocachers even reported spotting police nearby - although gratefully not been approached.

 

This is a new cache that was only published yesterday evening, and i appreciate geocachers like to be the FTF, but is it possible that the landowner was spooked by several Geocachers turning up armed with torches looking for my cachers, or are the landowners guilty of being over zealous.

 

I've placed these caches because i wanted to get involved in the community, not offend anyone (landowners also), so the question is do I move/archive this cache to appaise the landowner and reduce the risk of follow goecachers being verbally abused (and mess up the sequence of the cachers)

 

or do i say ...... "They are placed legally get over it Mr landowner, no one's breaking the law"

 

 

Firstly, although they're on public footpaths - you did get the landowner's permission for them, didn't you?

As has been said so often before, on a public footpath in England and Wales you only have the right to "pass and repass" on foot. Nothing else - including hiding tupperware. And the vast majority of public footpaths (in England at least) are on private property.

 

It's highly likely that the farmer doing the complaining also owns the land the caches are placed on. Have you checked this before you have a go at him?

[TheGreethams]

I think the problem here is security and safety.

 

The field that you have to walk across, directly backs onto someone's house - since I'm checking out the alternative I'll pop in and see the landowner/homeowner and try and sort it all out.

 

Mark

[+redsox_mark]

Firstly, although they're on public footpaths - you did get the landowner's permission for them, didn't you?

As has been said so often before, on a public footpath in England and Wales you only have the right to "pass and repass" on foot. Nothing else - including hiding tupperware. And the vast majority of public footpaths (in England at least) are on private property.

 

It's highly likely that the farmer doing the complaining also owns the land the caches are placed on. Have you checked this before you have a go at him?

 

Keehotee is right of course.

 

And I would want to avoid the confrontation and move the cache.

 

However, it can get more complicated. Let's assume the cache is hidden with permission (from landowner A) - but the route from the previous cache in the series uses a rarely used public right of way, which crosses the property of landowner B. In this case you have a right to pass. Geocaching aside it is important that the rights of way remain open; so if I am simply walking on a right of way and I'm challenged by an owner, I will show him/her the map and that I believe I'm on the right of way. I'll be polite, as I may be wrong and have gone off the path - they are not always clearly marked.

 

Some footpaths go very close to houses, or even though their gardens. One memorable find I have involves a footpath like that; it cuts right through the middle of a private garden. The owners know it is right of way, but still didn't look happy to see me. But the cache was half a mile away, crossing several fields. I'm pretty sure where the cache was hidden was not the property of the house with the footpath.

[+redsox_mark]

 

This is a new cache that was only published yesterday evening, and i appreciate geocachers like to be the FTF, but is it possible that the landowner was spooked by several Geocachers turning up armed with torches looking for my cachers, or are the landowners guilty of being over zealous.

 

I've placed these caches because i wanted to get involved in the community, not offend anyone (landowners also), so the question is do I move/archive this cache to appaise the landowner and reduce the risk of follow goecachers being verbally abused (and mess up the sequence of the cachers)

 

I just read the logs, and indeed, you have some keen FTF hounds there; out in the fields with torches (flashlights). Even if the cache is hidden on someone else's land, I'm sure the landowner isn't used to people using these footpaths at night.

[+abiherts]

Assuming of course that you have permission from the landowner, I suspect that the main issue was the sudden surge of walkers out trying to claim FTF and therefore spooking the farmer and the women at the farmhouse. I doubt that that they are used to late night walkers going through their field. Maybe there has been problems with thieves operating in the area?

 

Now the FTF rush has been, I expect most cachers will be passing through during the day. Is the path clearly defined and regularly used through his field? Or is it a barely used route up till now? If the farmer continues threatening walkers then it would definately be in your best interests to reroute your "trail" to avoid that particular footpath. I assume by your earlier post that the cache is away from the farmhouse.

 

Good luck

 

Abiherts

[+uxorious]

I've placed these caches because i wanted to get involved in the community, not offend anyone (landowners also), so the question is do I move/archive this cache to appaise the landowner and reduce the risk of follow goecachers being verbally abused (and mess up the sequence of the cachers)

 

or do i say ...... "They are placed legally get over it Mr landowner, no one's breaking the law"

 

There is a third alternative. You could approach the landowner, explain what is going on, and see if it could be worked out.

 

I had to do that on one of my caches. It was hidden on a right of way that passed through someones property. While I would have been in the right to say "They are placed legally get over it Mr landowner, no one's breaking the law", I didn't want to do that. I just explained to the woman what Geocaching was, and got her input. I told her if the cache bothered her I would remove it. She requested I put something on the cache page asking not to search at night. I gave her my phone number and told her to call if it still bothered her, and I would remove it. Seems like a win-win situation for a landowner and for Geocaching.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Out caching, we ran into a similar "problem". Admittedly in the "colonies" things are a bit different.

 

A magnetic on a public highway sign. Landowner (a South Dakota farmer) drove by and noticed us parked at the side of the road, checking for the cache on the sign. Stopped and remarked that we "were on his property" -- although we were at the sign (a curve ahead arrow), on the highway right-of-way.

A pleasant discussion ensued, and he finally decided that we were not on his property, but rather on the highway. Still, you must realize that many landowners feel that way... it is afterall, "their" road because they live on it, etc., etc.

 

Probably the last thing one should do, is be confrontational or argumentative. Saying something like "No we aren't, we are rightfully on the right-of-way", is argumentative (at least from the other person's perspective). It always proves to be a non-solution. Be as tactful as you can. It works far better.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I personally think you should move it, since it makes the land owner uncomfortable. I think it's more important to leave people with a good impression of geocachers than to push for a particular spot.

 

Is the cache really right on the path? I'm assuming it's to the side a bit. Some walking paths, the property lines are extremely close so it just may be on his property. Also, I could imagine that some geocachers might be stepping on his land, sometimes the search radius can be quite large. You could put on the cache page 'within 1 foot' etc of the path, but not everybody reads the description before searching and this could lead to trespassing.

[+ras_oscar]

In my experience most landowners want first to assure the security of their property. If neighbor x walks past the house every day walking the dog he's not a threat. He's a known entity. If a group of teens elect to hang on the street corner they can be preceived as a threat and likely to get challenged. For me the key would be to (attempt) to change the land owner's perception of the situation. Explaining geocaching and the reeason for unknown people sudenly wandering by changes the perception. BTW, saying "I'm on a public way" really does little good. I had a relative that owned a residential property on a street. The plot plan divided the lots down the middle of the street. He was paying taxes and in fact "owned" half of the street. Sound similar to the UK "right to pass" rules. I think a previous poster's offfer to movew or remove the cache at the land owner's option is spot on. Returns to the landowner th4e power to decide how the public uses his land.

[+Legochugglers]

As a UK cacher who had exactly the same problem you are better off removing it and finding an alternative route. It is unfair on people searching for the cache if they are going to be constantly confronted by a worried landowner (what ever their reasons). I moved mine straight away and feel all the better for it as you will always be watching your 'in box ' waiting for the next comments if you dont.

[+keehotee]

I personally think you should move it, since it makes the land owner uncomfortable. I think it's more important to leave people with a good impression of geocachers than to push for a particular spot.

 

Is the cache really right on the path? I'm assuming it's to the side a bit. Some walking paths, the property lines are extremely close so it just may be on his property. Also, I could imagine that some geocachers might be stepping on his land, sometimes the search radius can be quite large. You could put on the cache page 'within 1 foot' etc of the path, but not everybody reads the description before searching and this could lead to trespassing.

 

In the UK, a public footpath gives the public the right to walk to cross property - but it still remains the property of the landowner. So in this case it wouldn't matter if it were just off the path in a field - or smack bang in the middle of the path. The landowner remains the same.

[+GeoGeeBee]

I won't pretend to know anything about property rights in Great Britain.

 

However, in my experience, anytime you find yourself asking "should I move my cache?" the answer is yes.

 

This is a fun pastime. If the cache is creating drama, right or wrong, just move it.

[Clan Riffster]

What's everyone's opinion on this.

I won't own a cache that could cause a conflict betwixt a cacher and a muggle. For me, it really doesn't matter who is in the right. The fact that folks going to that spot leads to angst is enough to cause me to archive a hide.