Running out of space?

[cadavis0609]

Okay, I know this sounds dumb but it really seems that the game has gotten to a point where we've run out of space. I understand the need for the .1 mile rule, but twice now I've put out a cache for review and its gotten nixed because somebody has already littered the area with their multi-caches. I think there needs to be a limit on the number of caches that can be put into a multi. Furthermore, I'm sick of finding nano's. I decided to do something about it and made a medium and a large that I felt like people would enjoy finding, but theres nowhere to put them because everything is within .1 miles of the 800 nano's or LPC's within a 5 mile radius of me, or the rare but ever so area-covering multi's. Does anyone else have this problem or am I just in an area where the game has been totally degraded by boring finds?

[+JeepFreak81]

I guess that's an advantage of not being near a city....there's all kinds of room out here! While there are some micro's in the area and a few P&G's most of them are small, or regular sized caches. Plenty of room to add more as well.

[GOF and Bacall]

And 5 miles ain't much of a radius. You'll just have to put in a bit more effort to find a good location and consider pushing out farther from home.

[+Walts Hunting]

Why would you insult someone who placed multi's. Just because they occupy space you want doesn't mean they should be called names.

 

You won't get much sympathy here. You haven't even been playing at this for three months and yet and you are ready to make judgments. Those of us who have been here and placed caches before your appearance have our rights too.

 

I am sure there are many places in the great state of Virginia where you can go to place quality caches.

[+Chokecherry]

Running out of space????? Maybe in urban areas but there are many cache poor areas out there. I have tons of woods to play in here should I want to. Probably why you don't see a bunch of caches where I am is that for the most part people like to think them out and put out something interesting instead of just another cache for the sake of a cache. Since there's ample space there's not much worry about a spot getting stolen. Or if it is there's always a lot of other options. Just takes some creativity.

[cadavis0609]

Why would you insult someone who placed multi's. Just because they occupy space you want doesn't mean they should be called names.

 

You won't get much sympathy here. You haven't even been playing at this for three months and yet and you are ready to make judgments. Those of us who have been here and placed caches before your appearance have our rights too.

 

I am sure there are many places in the great state of Virginia where you can go to place quality caches.

 

Walt, buddy. I never called anybody names or insulted anyone. I simply said that there needs to be a limit on the number of caches within a multi. Thats great that you guys have been here 10 years or whatever. I wish I had known about it before now so I could have that time in, but the point is that even though you guys have your rights, the game is going to die without new members and new caches.

[GOF and Bacall]

Why would you insult someone who placed multi's. Just because they occupy space you want doesn't mean they should be called names.

 

You won't get much sympathy here. You haven't even been playing at this for three months and yet and you are ready to make judgments. Those of us who have been here and placed caches before your appearance have our rights too.

 

I am sure there are many places in the great state of Virginia where you can go to place quality caches.

 

Walt, buddy. I never called anybody names or insulted anyone. I simply said that there needs to be a limit on the number of caches within a multi. Thats great that you guys have been here 10 years or whatever. I wish I had known about it before now so I could have that time in, but the point is that even though you guys have your rights, the game is going to die without new members and new caches.

 

its gotten nixed because somebody has already littered the area with their multi-caches.

 

I would be insulted if you called one of my multis litter.

[+Keelmann And Cici]

 

Walt, buddy. I never called anybody names or insulted anyone. I simply said that there needs to be a limit on the number of caches within a multi. Thats great that you guys have been here 10 years or whatever. I wish I had known about it before now so I could have that time in, but the point is that even though you guys have your rights, the game is going to die without new members and new caches.

 

Well, you do refer to it as litter. You might start by extending your range past 5 miles, and second, try a little more respect to your fellow geocachers. A good multi is a significant effort, and fun to do.

[knowschad]

Actually, you don't look that crowded. Of course if there are a lot of multis or mystery caches, the maps could be misleading, but compare your local map to my local map. Folks around here are still finding plenty of room to hide, and I would be willing to guess that your local reviewer is publishing many caches a day in your area, as well.

 

You're new at this. Just enjoy finding them, until you find a good area that really needs a cache (and not just because it doesn't have one). Cache ownership can be rewarding, but it should not be something that you feel obligated to do. When the time is right, it will happen. Meanwhile, just relax and have fun finding what others have hidden (and learn from the experience, so when you do place your first one, it'll be great!)

 

 

 

 

 

PS: There is no apostrophe in "nanos". Pet peeve. Sorry.

[cadavis0609]

 

Walt, buddy. I never called anybody names or insulted anyone. I simply said that there needs to be a limit on the number of caches within a multi. Thats great that you guys have been here 10 years or whatever. I wish I had known about it before now so I could have that time in, but the point is that even though you guys have your rights, the game is going to die without new members and new caches.

 

Well, you do refer to it as litter. You might start by extending your range past 5 miles, and second, try a little more respect to your fellow geocachers. A good multi is a significant effort, and fun to do.

 

My range is much further than 5 miles. I was simply using it as a point of reference. My reviewers note said " I doubt you'll find a spot anywhere in this area" and then listed off all the multi's that I was within .1 miles of some stage of their cache. Perhaps the frustration with the multi's is that I can't see the stages past the initial so that I can avoid being near them, so I have to keep going back out and picking it up, which sucks to carry a heavy log a quarter mile through the woods and start over after I got so excited to put it out. As for litter, insert your own synonymn. It wasn't meant as an insult.

[knowschad]

Walt, buddy. I never called anybody names or insulted anyone. I simply said that there needs to be a limit on the number of caches within a multi. Thats great that you guys have been here 10 years or whatever. I wish I had known about it before now so I could have that time in, but the point is that even though you guys have your rights, the game is going to die without new members and new caches.

 

Well, you do refer to it as litter. You might start by extending your range past 5 miles, and second, try a little more respect to your fellow geocachers. A good multi is a significant effort, and fun to do.

 

My range is much further than 5 miles. I was simply using it as a point of reference. My reviewers note said " I doubt you'll find a spot anywhere in this area" and then listed off all the multi's that I was within .1 miles of some stage of their cache. Perhaps the frustration with the multi's is that I can't see the stages past the initial so that I can avoid being near them, so I have to keep going back out and picking it up, which sucks to carry a heavy log a quarter mile through the woods and start over after I got so excited to put it out. As for litter, insert your own synonymn. It wasn't meant as an insult.

 

Sounds like you have an unusual number of multi-caches in your area. They generally tend to be very rare, particularly in this time of numbers caching. I agree that they make it tough to place a hide unless you have not only found them all, but kept track of the coordinates of the final and all physical stages of them.

 

 

 

 

PS: There is no apostrophe in "multis", either. Pet peeve. Sorry.

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

didn't we see almost the same post a few days ago?

[cadavis0609]

Not from me! No appostrophe's here knowschad. Oh wait..crap.

[knowschad]

Not from me! No appostrophe's here knowschad. Oh wait..crap.

 

No double-p's in apostrophe's either. Sorry, pet peeve's.

[+Walts Hunting]

Why would you insult someone who placed multi's. Just because they occupy space you want doesn't mean they should be called names.

 

You won't get much sympathy here. You haven't even been playing at this for three months and yet and you are ready to make judgments. Those of us who have been here and placed caches before your appearance have our rights too.

 

I am sure there are many places in the great state of Virginia where you can go to place quality caches.

 

Walt, buddy. I never called anybody names or insulted anyone. I simply said that there needs to be a limit on the number of caches within a multi. Thats great that you guys have been here 10 years or whatever. I wish I had known about it before now so I could have that time in, but the point is that even though you guys have your rights, the game is going to die without new members and new caches.

 

Your exact quote is "Littered the area with their multis". I don't know anybody who puts out a cache that wouldn't be insulted at having their hard work called litter. The hobby is doing just fine. Growth numbers are healthy. Maybe it isn't for you.

[+niraD]

I'll echo knowschad's comment. Comparing your area to mine, yours doesn't look very saturated. And yours doesn't have as many caches with hidden stages either. But as saturated as the area around my home is, I've been able to find places to hide a couple caches. And each week's email from Groundspeak proves that many others are still finding places to hide caches within a few miles of my home.

 

But the stated goals of the staturation guidelines are "to encourage you to seek out new places to hide caches rather than putting them in areas where caches already exist, and to limit the number of caches hidden in a particular area". If an area is too saturated to place new caches, then maybe it's time to seek out new places to hide caches.

 

And if you want to verify that a location is available before investing a lot of time/effort into hiding a cache there, then see the knowledge books article Checking for Cache Saturation (especially Step 3).

[GOF and Bacall]

Knowschad, pplease leas'h yer peve's!

[cadavis0609]

niraD, thanks for the useful info. Walt, I'm gonna chaulk you up to a grumpy old man and let you have whatever it is that you think you have that lets you decide whether or not this is for me, seniority maybe? Whatever, its yours, you're the veteran and I'm just the dumb newbie. I enjoy doing it and if I ever get out to California, I'm gonna seek out every single one of your caches and sign my name in big BOLD letters on your log books.

[Pup Patrol]

Took a quick look at the area around your recent finds, and I see that there aren't many multicaches at all.

 

Love the name: Great Dismal Swamp! What a great name!

 

The other option you have, of course, is to find the multicaches that are in the area you want to hide your cache. Then you'll have those coordinates, and will have expanded your cache finding repertoire.

[Mr.Yuck]

Not from me! No appostrophe's here knowschad. Oh wait..crap.

 

I don't get it. Did I miss the other thread? Either way, I can understand the frustrations of a 2011 joiner wanting to place a cache in or near a decent sized City in the U.S., seeing as I live in what I'd consider a similar area. You'll probably regret the whole "litter" thing, but I do see your frustration. It will take some research and careful consideration (which I admit I didn't have to do in like 2003), but there are plenty of places to put caches, even with many of the good spots "taken".

[+Doctroid]

Norfolk! I spent a few years living in Newport News. I go back there once in a while, and it's where I made my first few intentional cache finds.

 

Not sure what part of the area you're in, but if I look at the map, west and northwest of Suffolk looks to be hundreds of square miles with very few caches. Not as scenic, maybe, as the Hampton Roads waterways and maybe not as convenient for you... but it's there.

 

As one who's hidden one letterbox and zero geocaches maybe I shouldn't be handing out advice on the subject... but I agree with the thought that if the place you want to put a geocache in is already saturated, that really means another geocache isn't needed right there. Wait until you find a place that does need one.

 

Unless all those caches around you are in bad condition, full of damp swag and moldy logs, or missing completely; then there is a need for some new, well-maintained caches. I'd have no complaints, in that case, if you were to pick a few of the worst offenders, mark them Needs Archiving, and then take over the location when they're gone.

[+tozainamboku]

It is frustrating for a beginner sometimes to find places to hide a cache particularly if there are a lot of multi or puzzle caches. There does seem to be quite a few puzzle caches in Norfolk.

 

Experienced cachers have the advantage of having found many of the caches so the have an idea of where the puzzles and multis are. They may also know what areas don't have many caches yet and whether there is some reason for this (such as a park with a no caching policy). Finally experience teaches that most caches have a finite life. Many get archived within a year of being placed. What looks like running out of places may just mean waiting a few weeks for some to be archived.

 

One thing that newbies can do is go to some events and talk with the locals about areas where you can hide a cache. They may even be willing to help you out by moving or archiving one of their caches. And you can ask the reviewer to check on a potential location to see if it is too close to a stage of a multi or to a puzzle cache before you hide and submit your cache. With experience you will have less difficulty finding hiding places.

[cadavis0609]

It is frustrating for a beginner sometimes to find places to hide a cache particularly if there are a lot of multi or puzzle caches. There does seem to be quite a few puzzle caches in Norfolk.

 

Experienced cachers have the advantage of having found many of the caches so the have an idea of where the puzzles and multis are. They may also know what areas don't have many caches yet and whether there is some reason for this (such as a park with a no caching policy). Finally experience teaches that most caches have a finite life. Many get archived within a year of being placed. What looks like running out of places may just mean waiting a few weeks for some to be archived.

 

One thing that newbies can do is go to some events and talk with the locals about areas where you can hide a cache. They may even be willing to help you out by moving or archiving one of their caches. And you can ask the reviewer to check on a potential location to see if it is too close to a stage of a multi or to a puzzle cache before you hide and submit your cache. With experience you will have less difficulty finding hiding places.

 

Interesting you should say that, I went back and checked through my previous finds after reading this and found that my 2nd or 3rd find ever, which was a location I LOVED but did't care for the container ( a mini ziplock with a log in it) was archived recently and would be the perfect spot for one of mine. Thanks for that advice.

[+JL_HSTRE]

After I had started caching, I made a short list of places I wanted to place a cache. Upon getting coordinates for those locations, I found that every one of them was within proximity of another cache. Most frustratingly, none were real close - all around 400 feet. One spot was even 450 ft from a cache to the south and 500 ft from a cache to the north.

 

You will find other good places for caches in the future.

 

somebody has already littered the area with their multi-caches.

 

Many places multicaches are pretty scarce. I for one usually enjoy them.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Interesting topic... Running out of space.

 

Whatever happened to placing a cache to get others to an interesting place, rather than just EVERY place?

 

**a tongue-in-cheek response -- but worthy of thought, nonetheless**

[+BlueDeuce]

I don't know anybody who puts out a cache that wouldn't be insulted at having their hard work called litter.

 

Considering a bunch of caches around here, having an offended owner would be a welcome response.

[+terrkan78]

It is frustrating for a beginner sometimes to find places to hide a cache particularly if there are a lot of multi or puzzle caches. There does seem to be quite a few puzzle caches in Norfolk.

 

Experienced cachers have the advantage of having found many of the caches so the have an idea of where the puzzles and multis are. They may also know what areas don't have many caches yet and whether there is some reason for this (such as a park with a no caching policy). Finally experience teaches that most caches have a finite life. Many get archived within a year of being placed. What looks like running out of places may just mean waiting a few weeks for some to be archived.

 

One thing that newbies can do is go to some events and talk with the locals about areas where you can hide a cache. They may even be willing to help you out by moving or archiving one of their caches. And you can ask the reviewer to check on a potential location to see if it is too close to a stage of a multi or to a puzzle cache before you hide and submit your cache. With experience you will have less difficulty finding hiding places.

 

Interesting you should say that, I went back and checked through my previous finds after reading this and found that my 2nd or 3rd find ever, which was a location I LOVED but did't care for the container ( a mini ziplock with a log in it) was archived recently and would be the perfect spot for one of mine. Thanks for that advice.

 

Once you find a good spot, type up cache page. Uncheck the "Enable cache listing" box and submit it. If that box it unchecked, it doesn't go to the reviewer, but now you'll be "holding" the spot (assuming it's available and not too close to some other multi/puzzle that you don't know about yet). You don't want someone else to grab that "perfect spot" and stick a nano there.

 

You can go back later and edit that page to your heart's content (you can edit the coordinates, the title, everything). What I mean by "holding" the spot is that if someone else submits a cache too close to your "held" spot, the reviewer will contact you and ask if you are going to use this spot or if someone else can have it. You'll have a certain amount of time to either get the cache in place and enable the listing or lose the spot.

 

You might check with your local reviewer, as I believe different reviewers handle it differently, but around here the preferred method of checking for location availability is to type up the cache listing, go ahead and check the "enable cache listing" box (even though the cache is not yet in place) and put a reviewer note in at the bottom saying the cache isn't really in place yet but I'm checking for location availability. But, until you're ready to do that, you can "hold" the location in the meantime.

[+The_Incredibles_]

Can you let us know the approx coordinates where you were trying to place the cache? I looked at your most recent and didn't see a ton of multis.

 

One tip is to buy a premium membership and you can create a notification to let you know whenever a nearby cache is archived. If it's a good spot, you can use it.

 

Another tip is that if you are wanting to place caches in an area, it's a good idea to find the nearby multis and puzzles and mark the stages as waypoints on your GPS. That way, when you're looking to place a cache, you can see exactly how far the nearest stages are from you. I would also suggest downloading Fizzycalc, it's free, and can calculate distances for you. If I see a park with a possible space, I figure out possible coordinates ahead of time using FizzyCalc, then go there and see if the spot is suitable. Better than bushwacking trying to find a spot.

[+steben6]

Why would you insult someone who placed multi's. Just because they occupy space you want doesn't mean they should be called names.

 

You won't get much sympathy here. You haven't even been playing at this for three months and yet and you are ready to make judgments. Those of us who have been here and placed caches before your appearance have our rights too.

 

I am sure there are many places in the great state of Virginia where you can go to place quality caches.

+1

[+WarNinjas]

I think there are spots even in the most popular areas if you look but I do agree that it can be frustrating when you pick a spot and check there is none in the area and do the work only to find out that a puzzle or multi is in the area you already checked. I wish there could be a way to check that without giving up the location of the multi so you could know if it was OK to place one there. Not that they are litter or anything I am sure they are great caches and I want them there but wish I could know it before I try and place one there only to get denied.

-WarNinjas

[+GeoBain]

Walt, I'm gonna chaulk you up to a grumpy old man and let you have whatever it is that you think you have that lets you decide whether or not this is for me, seniority maybe?

 

Chalk me up as a grumpy old man too since I agree with Walt that you were demeaning an entire class of hiders when you referred to multis as litter.

 

In fact, I find there is a huge air of entitlement permeating throughout this thread.

[+niraD]

[Edit: nevermind...]

Edited October 14, 2011 by niraD

[+Bear and Ragged]

I wish...

 

That more setters of Multi-caches would use 'Question To Answer' stages.

Nothing worse than trying to read the coordinates for the next stage from a yukky wet piece of paper removed from a micro/nano container.

[+hzoi]

I remember the Portsmouth/Newport News area being pretty cache rich, and the Williamsburg area's pretty saturated as well. But if you expand your zone a little, there are areas that definitely have space. Plenty of room up on the Delmarva Peninsula, west of town, and across the state line into NC.

[+Ike 13]

Count me in as not seeing where in your area is saturated. I see plenty of open space. I see a few parks that may be full (due to multis or puzzles nearby), but I see tons of open area. Sometimes when placing a cache you won't be able to find the perfect spot, but you quickly learn any wooded area you can get permission for will work nicely. As others have said look for archived caches, do the multis and puzzles so you know what areas to avoid. It also sounds like you've been in discussion with your reviewer. We've all had caches denied due to proximity, you live, learn, and find a new (sometimes better) spot.

[+stinger503]

I feel your pain, especially for puzzle caches. My advice? Take a step back, take a deep breath, move on and try again. You can't win them all.

[+Lil Devil]

Perhaps the frustration with the multi's is that I can't see the stages past the initial so that I can avoid being near them,

Have you ever thought of going out and actually finding the multis? Save the coords for each stage then you can avoid them yourself.

 

And what's with the rivers around the parks in your area? I see the parks full of caches, but how come no caches are hidden along the rivers?

[cadavis0609]

Perhaps the frustration with the multi's is that I can't see the stages past the initial so that I can avoid being near them,

Have you ever thought of going out and actually finding the multis? Save the coords for each stage then you can avoid them yourself.

 

And what's with the rivers around the parks in your area? I see the parks full of caches, but how come no caches are hidden along the rivers?

 

I suspect it has something to do with the unpredictable tidelines and weather patterns. We get quite a few nor'easters, quite a bit of rainfall and the occasional hurricane. It doesn't take much for an area to wash out entirely.

 

Update: I did find a spot and my cache was published today and had its FTF. I am sorry for those of you that were offended with my word choice yesterday. I was simply expressing frustration and the more I really looked around for a good place today, the more places I found. Thanks for not totally beating me into the ground, even you Walt, and the other fellow grumpy old man. I hope one day you get to seek it out and it meets your approval.

[+Ike 13]

<snip>the more I really looked around for a good place today, the more places I found.<snip>

 

Good! Now you have some places for another cache

[+JJnTJ]

You could always look for older caches that don't get found very often, and write a nice note to the owners asking if they wouldn't mind archiving so you could place one. Some might take offense, but if you are polite in your email you haven't done anything wrong. The CO actually benefits, because he'll get to find your cache (in an area he liked enough to place one!) and the locals will be grateful for a new cache nearby.

 

There are a few COs around here that actually have "I will archive any of my caches for you to place one" in their profiles.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

If you're running out of space to place a cache, perhaps that's an indication that there are already enough caches in the area. The solution is to look for another area with more space to place caches.

 

What you're suggesting is a global solution for what is (at least in your opinion) a local problem. In most places in the world there is more than enough room to place caches without any concern for proximity issues. Why should someone living in a cache sparse area have a limit on the number of stages for a multi because there are some other places where there is a heavy saturation of caches?

[+Sol seaker]

I'll echo knowschad's comment. Comparing your area to mine, yours doesn't look very saturated. And yours doesn't have as many caches with hidden stages either. But as saturated as the area around my home is, I've been able to find places to hide a couple caches. And each week's email from Groundspeak proves that many others are still finding places to hide caches within a few miles of my home.

 

But the stated goals of the staturation guidelines are "to encourage you to seek out new places to hide caches rather than putting them in areas where caches already exist, and to limit the number of caches hidden in a particular area". If an area is too saturated to place new caches, then maybe it's time to seek out new places to hide caches.

 

And if you want to verify that a location is available before investing a lot of time/effort into hiding a cache there, then see the knowledge books article Checking for Cache Saturation (especially Step 3).

 

I'll echo Knowschad's comment too.

I hate apostrophes in the wrong place.

Oh wait, not that comment.

 

I took a look at your area to see what you were talking about . WOW. There TONS of space.

If you want to see saturated, check out the Seattle area, where Groundspeak Headquarters is, or any of the surrounding areas there (especially Shoreline to the north of Seattle).

Or check out the SF Bay area of California. There is saturated, yet people are still placing caches.

 

I see TONS of space on that map for caches.

There seem to be a lot of wooded areas (without double-checking on Google Earth).

If I were you, I would be out trying to find new hiking trails to put caches on. Find some trails that don't have caches yet. With all that space without caches there have got to be a few.

Take people somewhere they haven't been.