Cleaning up the database

[+mrcpu]

I've been watching the discussions about missing TB's and missing Caches and Missing Cache Owners and it got me thinking. What we need is an AUTOMATED method for handling inactive cachers and their caches.

 

As an example, hotmail and other such sites notice when you are inactive and suspend your account. Why not do the same thing with Geocaching accounts. It has to be assumed that if the cacher doesn't log in then perhaps they aren't maintaining their caches either!

 

I'm proposing something Automated to take the workload off Jeremy and his volenteers. Basically what I see is a system whereby if you are a cache owner and you haven't logged into the cache in over a month you get an email from the site. Thirty day's later, if you still haven't replied to your email your account is suspended and all your caches get a notice saying that they are not being maintained and are going up for adoption. A link is provided whereby other cachers can announce their interest of adopting the cache. This could be a discusion board topic under a new forum called ADOPITIONS or some other way for the cachers to communicate and hagle it out with each other.

 

Thirty day's after this the adoption process is started a program would look at the cache and a list of adopters sorted by distance from the cache. The program would then pick the closest adopter to the cache. The system would generate an email to that person asking them to click a link to confirm.

 

Caches that don't get adopted would become archived and an email sent out to everyone who lives within a 50 mile radius asking someone to pick the cache up. The incentive would be that the cacher would now "own" the garbage. Keep the container and any good contents and throw the rest out.

 

This entire process hinges on it being automated. It needs to be setup now before we have 100,000 caches world wide and 30,000 of them are garbage!!!!!

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

[+Jamie Z]

In theory, I really like that idea. I've been advocating something to encourage folks to maintain their caches, and your idea sounds reasonable. It would certainly help clean up a couple of abandoned caches around here.

 

However, it's the whole "automation" thing that scares me. Markwell mentioned a long time ago that any automated process throws up red flags, and I agree.

 

MrC, I'd like to see something like your idea implemented, but I'd like to do without the automation.

 

Jamie

[+Prime Suspect]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mrcpu:

It has to be assumed that if the cacher doesn't log in then perhaps they aren't maintaining their caches either!

---

Sorry, but that's a completely wrong assumption. You're apparently forgetting that cache owners are automatically emailed whenever there is activity on their cache site. Whether or not they've viewed their cache page is in no way an indication of whether or not the cache is being maintained. And, of course, this doesn't even touch on the fact that it's not necessary to log in to view a cache page.

 

Fact is, I rarely look at the cache pages any of my 5 currently active caches. It's just not necessary, unless I need to 1) change the description, 2) add an informational log, or 3) encrypt a log entry.

 

I don't see why we should force people to log in within a certain time period, just to keep the automated cache gestapo from trying to take away their cache ownership.

 

[+Glenn]

The idea sounds good but how would an inactive account be handled?

 

Most caches can last months without the owner checking up on it. Would the cache be archive or just have a warning that the cache owner is no longer active.

 

Also what would you suggest happen to the inactive cachers account. I'm asking because I've had to stop using hotmail because of their, nasty little, deleating of inactive account feature. I can deploy for 6, 9 or more months at a time without being able to access the internet for the entire time. I'd hate to have to sign up for a new geocaching account every time I came back off deployment.

 

- Lone Rangers

[+Wander Lost]

I'd have to say that I agree that there should be some kind of automated system. But I think it should be initiated manually.

 

Something like this:

 

There could be a link off the log a find page, to report a damaged/abandoned cache. From there you would fill out information on the cache and it's condition. Once you submit the form it would automatically e-mail the cache owner & someone at Groundspeak. Included in this e-mail to the cache owner would be a link for them to click on to indicate that they received the message. There they could be given instructions on what they will need to do to prevent the cache from being automatically suspended. Give them thirty days to respond to that initial e-mail and repair the cache. If they don't respond then the cache would be suspended and put up for adoption.

 

This takes some of the automation out of the process but also keeps Jeremy and his volunteers from having to respond to dozens of e-mail requests to adopt abandoned caches.

 

 

"No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai

[+Prime Suspect]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wander Lost:

 

There could be a link off the log a find page, to report a damaged/abandoned cache. From there you would fill out information on the cache and it's condition. Once you submit the form it would automatically e-mail the cache owner & someone at Groundspeak. Included in this e-mail to the cache owner would be a link for them to click on to indicate that they received the message. There they could be given instructions on what they will need to do to prevent the cache from being automatically suspended.

---

Of course, this makes it really easy for someone to harass a cache owner they don't like. Every day, just make up a new log-on profile, and report all your enemy's caches as being abandoned. What a headache that would be.

 

To me, this whole thread appears to be about a solution in search of a problem that doesn't really exist. If there's a problem with a cache, chances are good that it's reflected in the logs, assuming someone has noticed it. If no one's noticed yet, well, you'd have to call a psychic to know if there's a problem, and I don't think Miss Cleo is in any position to help right now. You should always check the last few logs before looking for a cache, just to see if a problem has already been reported. Sure, there are caches that have been missing a while that still show up as active. But in the big picture, they're few and far between. The last thing we need is some Big Brother system hassling cache owners every month.

 

 

[This message was edited by Prime Suspect on April 17, 2002 at 09:02 PM.]

[+mrcpu]

a) You are logged in RIGHT NOW

 

You PROBABLY log in when you view ANYTHING on the site because of your cookie

 

c) If keeping your caches ment checking a small little box to create a cookie on your hard drive, wouldn't you do it?

 

With regards to the issues over an automated process, well if you want to pay $100/year for an account I'm sure Jeremy can hire someone to do it manually...oh wait, what if the person doesn't feel well or doesn't like the smell of a cache? Automated processes perform automated business logic and can eliminate human introduced problems. OBVIOUSLY you would need to still contact a human if you thought that there was an error!

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

[+infosponge]

Where's the proper place to report abandoned caches now? Is there a forum or a specific e-mail address?

On a related note, someone local is moving away and asked if I wanted to adopt his 2 caches. How do I get my name associated as the owner so that I can keep up with them?

[+Web-ling]

quote:

---

Originally posted by infosponge:

Where's the proper place to report abandoned caches now? Is there a forum or a specific e-mail address?

On a related note, someone local is moving away and asked if I wanted to adopt his 2 caches. How do I get my name associated as the owner so that I can keep up with them?

---

Email Groundspeak from the contact us link under the left-hand menu of most geocaching.com pages

 

[Bryan]

Yep, until we create a separate alias, abandoned caches (or improperly placed caches) should be reported via the contact@Groundspeak.com email address.

 

We'll do our best to contact the cache owner or local cachers to determine the actual cache status and archive [or request a geo-search and recovery party] as necessary.

 

The contact@Groundspeak.com email address is also frequently used by the Geocaching community, landowners and land management agencies [NPS, etc.] to alert us to improperly placed or located caches. Members of the Geocaching community have historically been most cooperative and the system seems to be working thus far.

 

Cache ownership transfer requests may also be made via the same email address.

 

Happy Geocaching!

 

Sincerely,

 

Rothstafari, Soul Adventurer

www.Groundspeak.com

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

[Bryan]

Yep, until we create a separate alias, abandoned caches (or improperly placed caches) should be reported via the contact@Groundspeak.com email address.

 

We'll do our best to contact the cache owner or local cachers to determine the actual cache status and archive [or request a geo-search and recovery party] as necessary.

 

The contact@Groundspeak.com email address is also frequently used by the Geocaching community, landowners and land management agencies [NPS, etc.] to alert us to improperly placed or located caches. Members of the Geocaching community have historically been most cooperative and the system seems to be working thus far.

 

Cache ownership transfer requests may also be made via the same email address.

 

Happy Geocaching!

 

Sincerely,

 

Rothstafari, Soul Adventurer

www.Groundspeak.com

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

[+malak]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mrcpu:

I've been watching the discussions about missing TB's and missing Caches and Missing Cache Owners and it got me thinking. What we need is an AUTOMATED method for handling inactive cachers and their caches.

 

As an example, hotmail and other such sites notice when you are inactive and suspend your account. Why not do the same thing with Geocaching accounts. It has to be assumed that if the cacher doesn't log in then perhaps they aren't maintaining their caches either!

 

I'm proposing something Automated to take the workload off Jeremy and his volenteers. Basically what I see is a system whereby if you are a cache owner and you haven't logged into the cache in over a month you get an email from the site. Thirty day's later, if you still haven't replied to your email your account is suspended and all your caches get a notice saying that they are not being maintained and are going up for adoption. A link is provided whereby other cachers can announce their interest of adopting the cache. This could be a discusion board topic under a new forum called ADOPITIONS or some other way for the cachers to communicate and hagle it out with each other.

 

Thirty day's after this the adoption process is started a program would look at the cache and a list of adopters sorted by distance from the cache. The program would then pick the closest adopter to the cache. The system would generate an email to that person asking them to click a link to confirm.

 

Caches that don't get adopted would become archived and an email sent out to everyone who lives within a 50 mile radius asking someone to pick the cache up. The incentive would be that the cacher would now "own" the garbage. Keep the container and any good contents and throw the rest out.

 

This entire process hinges on it being automated. It needs to be setup now before we have 100,000 caches world wide and 30,000 of them are garbage!!!!!

---

 

I've thought about this and have some basic problems with it beyond the appearance of logic and sense that it has on the surface.

 

In the Montreal area we have two caches which were hidden by people who either have never found a cache and never intend to, or found one or two and seem to have moved on to whatever the next novelty in their life was.

 

We have another three set by someone I consider to be an active cacher but who in the past year has only found three due to work restraints, and until proven otherwise is a defacto inactive.

 

There are two more caches within my 100 miles set by someone who has never looked for any and AFAIC has no intention to -- he set the two almost a year ago and hasn't been active at all since. Both are good cachs (though access restrictions have made getting to one difficult).

 

The first five are popular caches. I have gone out to check up on one, someone else lives within tripping distance of another, and in general I am the local self appointed "fun friend-uncle" who looks after all the local caches, be they mine or not, be they owned by cachers active or not.

 

The automated system as suggested above is *way* too restrictive, at least in its suggested numbers, and assumes that *everyone* is as obsessed with this website and sport as I am.

 

At the very least the automated system needs to take into account the number of "couldn't finds" (particularly in a row) that are recent, and just how inactive the cache is. One of the caches I referred to above was set June 24 2001 and hasn't been found yet, along with another sort of near it that has been aronud almost as long and hasn't been found either.

 

Should each be auctioned off to the nearest bidder, without consideration of practical issues that despite my paranoia, caches are big boys and girls and can take care of themselves 99 times out of 100, 99% of the time?

[+tslack2000]

You might consider organizing something locally such as Utah is doing. We've organized a game called "The Spring Cleaning Cache Game". It's still in the works, but we hope to hold the game anually each year in the spring.

 

The idea is to entice cachers who have previously visited a cache to visit it again in the springtime after winter has wreaked havoc on many a cache. Everybody who visits the cache and reports on the status will go to a website setup locally (not geocaching.com) and report the status of the cache. For each report they will get a point. If they come across a cache that is missing, we will attempt to notify the cache owner. (They will KNOW that it is missing because they will have previously visited the cache.) They will have a period of time in which to respond and let us know of their intentions. However, if the cache owner does not respond within a certain amount of time, then geocaching.com will be notified that the cache should be archived.

 

This idea addresses "adoptions" in the following way: If somebody liked the cache location of the missing cache, then they are encouraged to place another cache there and list it as a new cache, thereby taking ownership of said cache or cache location, as it were.

 

I think some sort of automated process would be good, but at this point a request that will have to wait with everything else that Jeremy has going on. The problem itself might already be too big for geocaching.com to effectively handle. I see the point, however, of bringing it up now just in case there is something they can do about it. We can all do our part in the meantime to report missing caches and think of alternative solutions to the problem. If you have more questions about the proposed game that is going to happen here in Utah, feel free to ask and I can go into more detail.

 

Tyler Slack's Geocaching in Utah

[+trippy1976]

I've also thought about this. I think something along the line of "You haven't logged in for the last 90 days" kind of thing would be good.

 

It's a very bad thing to have rotting caches out in the wilderness and parks because someone comes along all gung-ho and then when Everquest 10 comes out they lose interest and don't revisit us or their cache for years.

 

The subject was tossed around a little during a get together the other day and a timeout with an email notification seemed to me a very reasonable way to combat what I think will become a larger problem as caching popularity grows. And the real issue is not to prevent /us/ from going out to find missing caches. From my POV it's to prevent fostering the notion that this abandonment does actually leave a bunch of junk in our parks and wilderness. It's good for the sport and it's good for PR (which is good for the sport).

 

Finding foster parents for these abandoned caches would likely not be an issue and if anyone ever came back - they can just ask for their cache back. No biggie. If they never come back, at least we know it's not just geo-trash waiting to be discovered and flamed about by the general anti-caching public and we can be more sure that it's being maintained by someone who cares.

 

I don't see it as a bad thing. Give the person 30 days to log in after 90 have expired. If you can't bring yourself to log in (2 minutes) every 4 months, three times a year... what's that saying about your ability to take time to maintain your caches anyway.

 

EDIT: BTW, I'm talking about a fostering/adoption approach. Not suggesting caches owned by inactive cachers be nixed. We should be able to 'adopt' caches who's owner seems to have gone off to pursue other interests. Unless a cache is wrecked, I think it's of great value. If someone cares about its welfare, everyone is better off.

 

--------

trippy1976

 

 

[This message was edited by trippy1976 on April 28, 2002 at 08:55 PM.]