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Irritations aka "gripes"


The Posse
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We've been geocaching since year III, and have spent many hours and miles loving this sport. Lately, I have found myself getting irritated with the tendency toward complexity into which Geocaching has evolved. The sport used to be a simple, free, fun sport open to everyone who had a gps and the desire to use it. The latest recent-cache list, which prompted my mini-rant, includes SEVEN caches placed by the same 'cacher within less than a mile (spaced barely the allowed limit apart!)---and all open only to Premium Members. I'm wondering if this kind of exclusivity irritates anyone else... Has Geocaching created some kind of "Us and Them" snobbish competition?

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Wish it were Friday...

 

...so I could be off on my sailing trip for the weekend over water and around islands - with zero geocaches to be found: no temptation :P

 

But seriously, for that group of premium caches - might be better first to find out why they're locked to PMO. Special series? Is that CO also irritated by the state of things and effectively pushed into publishing them PMO? Experimental caches? Or are they just a "bad" cacher (ymmv)?

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We've been geocaching since year III, and have spent many hours and miles loving this sport. Lately, I have found myself getting irritated with the tendency toward complexity into which Geocaching has evolved. The sport used to be a simple, free, fun sport open to everyone who had a gps and the desire to use it. The latest recent-cache list, which prompted my mini-rant, includes SEVEN caches placed by the same 'cacher within less than a mile (spaced barely the allowed limit apart!)---and all open only to Premium Members. I'm wondering if this kind of exclusivity irritates anyone else... Has Geocaching created some kind of "Us and Them" snobbish competition?

 

So, your gripe has to do with Premium Member Only caches (aka "PMO"s), or with too many caches near each other, too many caches by the same owner, or with increased complexity?

 

PMO caches do irritate some. But not most. Most seem to feel that membership has its privliges, and that you get what you're willing to pay for. You have been caching for years now, using the website listings to find and log the caches that you've found, at no cost to you. What is keeping you from becoming a Premium Member and helping to fund the activity that you value so much?

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SEVEN caches placed by the same 'cacher within less than a mile (spaced barely the allowed limit apart!)---and all open only to Premium Members.

 

I can understand why some cos would mark their caches pmo, but I've seen some pmo caches that are just like regular caches (nano on a bench, ect), which seems pointless to me.

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We've been geocaching since year III, and have spent many hours and miles loving this sport. Lately, I have found myself getting irritated with the tendency toward complexity into which Geocaching has evolved. The sport used to be a simple, free, fun sport open to everyone who had a gps and the desire to use it. The latest recent-cache list, which prompted my mini-rant, includes SEVEN caches placed by the same 'cacher within less than a mile (spaced barely the allowed limit apart!)---and all open only to Premium Members. I'm wondering if this kind of exclusivity irritates anyone else... Has Geocaching created some kind of "Us and Them" snobbish competition?

 

I think you need to be a bit more specific about your gripe.

I find Geocaching to be a simple, free, fun sport open to everyone with a GPS.

 

You have highlighted the word 'SEVEN'. Nothing wrong with 7 caches. Are they in a nice place, are they well presented, have you actually done them?

 

Spaced barely the allowed limit apart. - Why not, great for small children.

 

...only open to Premium Members. Why not? That is the CO's choice and your choice to spend $30 a year (merely cents a day) for something you enjoy.

 

Are you saying that PM's are snobbish? Seems a bit of a harsh accusation for $30.

 

No, the above doesn't irritate me. Whingers do though.

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Are you saying that PM's are snobbish?

 

I think the correct word is "elitist" :ph34r:

 

*runs and hides*

 

Definition - Elite, Elitist etc..... 'a select body, the best part of society, aristocracy'.

 

I became a premium member for 2 reasons

1 - To add favourites purely to give recognition to as many caches as possible where they (IMHO) are good quality, interesting etc etc etc,

2- to be able to do a local series virtually on my doorstep that I really enjoyed.

 

Hardly elitist, try joining a golf club.

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Are you saying that PM's are snobbish?

 

I think the correct word is "elitist" :ph34r:

 

*runs and hides*

 

Definition - Elite, Elitist etc..... 'a select body, the best part of society, aristocracy'.

 

I became a premium member for 2 reasons

1 - To add favourites purely to give recognition to as many caches as possible where they (IMHO) are good quality, interesting etc etc etc,

2- to be able to do a local series virtually on my doorstep that I really enjoyed.

 

Hardly elitist, try joining a golf club.

 

dfx was poking a bit of fun. B)

 

trying doing a forum search for "elitist" and see if you can find a rather belaboured, somewhat infamous thread, basically the same rant as this one re: premium member only caches.

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Are you saying that PM's are snobbish?

 

I think the correct word is "elitist" :ph34r:

 

*runs and hides*

 

Definition - Elite, Elitist etc..... 'a select body, the best part of society, aristocracy'.

 

I became a premium member for 2 reasons

1 - To add favourites purely to give recognition to as many caches as possible where they (IMHO) are good quality, interesting etc etc etc,

2- to be able to do a local series virtually on my doorstep that I really enjoyed.

 

Hardly elitist, try joining a golf club.

 

dfx was poking a bit of fun. B)

 

trying doing a forum search for "elitist" and see if you can find a rather belaboured, somewhat infamous thread, basically the same rant as this one re: premium member only caches.

 

PMO Caches are Elitist (locked thread)

Geocaching is Elitist (a tongue firmly in cheek thread)

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Are you saying that PM's are snobbish?

 

I think the correct word is "elitist" :ph34r:

 

*runs and hides*

 

Definition - Elite, Elitist etc..... 'a select body, the best part of society, aristocracy'.

 

I became a premium member for 2 reasons

1 - To add favourites purely to give recognition to as many caches as possible where they (IMHO) are good quality, interesting etc etc etc,

2- to be able to do a local series virtually on my doorstep that I really enjoyed.

 

Hardly elitist, try joining a golf club.

 

dfx was poking a bit of fun. B)

 

trying doing a forum search for "elitist" and see if you can find a rather belaboured, somewhat infamous thread, basically the same rant as this one re: premium member only caches.

 

i was going to actually post a link to it :lol:

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Are you saying that PM's are snobbish?

 

I think the correct word is "elitist" :ph34r:

 

*runs and hides*

 

Definition - Elite, Elitist etc..... 'a select body, the best part of society, aristocracy'.

 

I became a premium member for 2 reasons

1 - To add favourites purely to give recognition to as many caches as possible where they (IMHO) are good quality, interesting etc etc etc,

2- to be able to do a local series virtually on my doorstep that I really enjoyed.

 

Hardly elitist, try joining a golf club.

 

dfx was poking a bit of fun. B)

 

trying doing a forum search for "elitist" and see if you can find a rather belaboured, somewhat infamous thread, basically the same rant as this one re: premium member only caches.

 

i was going to actually post a link to it :lol:

 

Having just read (skimmed) through those previous threads I think I will revert to challenging the accusation of being 'Snobbish' and we will see how that goes.

 

PS, a quick uestion. Are forum posters that know the whole history of forum debates considered 'elitist'.

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Are you saying that PM's are snobbish?

 

I think the correct word is "elitist" :ph34r:

 

*runs and hides*

 

Definition - Elite, Elitist etc..... 'a select body, the best part of society, aristocracy'.

 

I became a premium member for 2 reasons

1 - To add favourites purely to give recognition to as many caches as possible where they (IMHO) are good quality, interesting etc etc etc,

2- to be able to do a local series virtually on my doorstep that I really enjoyed.

 

Hardly elitist, try joining a golf club.

 

dfx was poking a bit of fun. B)

 

trying doing a forum search for "elitist" and see if you can find a rather belaboured, somewhat infamous thread, basically the same rant as this one re: premium member only caches.

 

i was going to actually post a link to it :lol:

 

Having just read (skimmed) through those previous threads I think I will revert to challenging the accusation of being 'Snobbish' and we will see how that goes.

 

PS, a quick uestion. Are forum posters that know the whole history of forum debates considered 'elitist'.

No, I think they are referred to as Charter Members.

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PS, a quick uestion. Are forum posters that know the whole history of forum debates considered 'elitist'.

Not at all. Just more intellegent.

 

That jibe only hurts when you can spell intelligent but lets stay on topic.

 

I am happy with my PM and will be renewing it again this year, in fact I've just noticed it is due next week.

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PS, a quick uestion. Are forum posters that know the whole history of forum debates considered 'elitist'.

Not at all. Just more intellegent.

 

That jibe only hurts when you can spell intelligent but lets stay on topic.

 

I am happy with my PM and will be renewing it again this year, in fact I've just noticed it is due next week.

 

LOL! You got me there. You're lucky you didn't get hit with Muphry's Law, though!

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We've been geocaching since year III, and have spent many hours and miles loving this sport. Lately, I have found myself getting irritated with the tendency toward complexity into which Geocaching has evolved. The sport used to be a simple, free, fun sport open to everyone who had a gps and the desire to use it. The latest recent-cache list, which prompted my mini-rant, includes SEVEN caches placed by the same 'cacher within less than a mile (spaced barely the allowed limit apart!)---and all open only to Premium Members. I'm wondering if this kind of exclusivity irritates anyone else... Has Geocaching created some kind of "Us and Them" snobbish competition?

 

So, your gripe has to do with Premium Member Only caches (aka "PMO"s), or with too many caches near each other, too many caches by the same owner, or with increased complexity?

 

PMO caches do irritate some. But not most. Most seem to feel that membership has its privliges, and that you get what you're willing to pay for. You have been caching for years now, using the website listings to find and log the caches that you've found, at no cost to you. What is keeping you from becoming a Premium Member and helping to fund the activity that you value so much?

I couldn't have said it better myself. We have a local cacher who hides almost all of his caches as PMO's. They are by far among the most challenging and fun caches I've found. To me, they're worth the price of admission! Not to mention the other perks that PM offers. I have no complaints.

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When a Charter Member complains about elitism... what's the word for that? Is it irony?

 

Charter Members. Now there's a closed club.

 

Actually, I would think that charter members are those with the most right to complain about premium membership only caches. I'm not sure of the date that paid memberships became a reality, nor when PMO caches were introduced, but I think its fair to guess that it was some time after the OP had started caching.

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With regard to the accusation that geocaching is too complex and somehow has lost it's appeal to certain folks, I suppose this is true. However, I would argue that there are parts of geocaching we all love and hate. I'm not a big fan of power trails or nanos. But that's fine with me. I just pay attention to what I enjoy about the sport and ignore the rest. And the "us and them" theory about premium memberships...just seems alright with me for any business to charge for services. Supply and demand. If enough don't want to pay, the price will drop or go away.

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We've been geocaching since year III, and have spent many hours and miles loving this sport. Lately, I have found myself getting irritated with the tendency toward complexity into which Geocaching has evolved. The sport used to be a simple, free, fun sport open to everyone who had a gps and the desire to use it. The latest recent-cache list, which prompted my mini-rant, includes SEVEN caches placed by the same 'cacher within less than a mile (spaced barely the allowed limit apart!)---and all open only to Premium Members. I'm wondering if this kind of exclusivity irritates anyone else... Has Geocaching created some kind of "Us and Them" snobbish competition?

 

It always has been Us verses Them.

"Them" is defined as muggles who usually do not want to pay $30 a year to steal a box full of gumball machine items. :rolleyes:

Perhaps there are some cachers left out, but they do have a million other caches they can find until their OCD prompts them to pay up.

Muggles are not magical! We are superior! :D

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I'm relatively new to GeoCaching and I've already seen this topic pop up. I honestly don't remember who it was, I should have made a memo of their name, but this person had the best explanation of why someone might post their cache as PMO. The reason being that it staves off the a** clowns that go out just to destroy or steal the caches. Sounds fair enough to me. I don't see any elitism in that. Matter of fact, after some of the stories of caches being ruined by jerks that are just out to ruin everyone else's good time, I've come to the conclusion that there should be no free memberships. That would weed out the troublemakers from the get go. In my opinion it has nothing to do with a "Hey, I paid so I'm better than you" attitude.

 

Myself, I figured 30 bucks for a year was a small price to pay for full access to the site and everything it has to offer. Not to mention it helps Groundspeak stay afloat.

MULLY

 

and when you do the math, that works out to about a 10th of a cent a day. I think I can swing that :laughing:

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We've been geocaching since year III, and have spent many hours and miles loving this sport. Lately, I have found myself getting irritated with the tendency toward complexity into which Geocaching has evolved. The sport used to be a simple, free, fun sport open to everyone who had a gps and the desire to use it. The latest recent-cache list, which prompted my mini-rant, includes SEVEN caches placed by the same 'cacher within less than a mile (spaced barely the allowed limit apart!)---and all open only to Premium Members. I'm wondering if this kind of exclusivity irritates anyone else... Has Geocaching created some kind of "Us and Them" snobbish competition?

 

So, your gripe has to do with Premium Member Only caches (aka "PMO"s), or with too many caches near each other, too many caches by the same owner, or with increased complexity?

 

PMO caches do irritate some. But not most. Most seem to feel that membership has its privliges, and that you get what you're willing to pay for. You have been caching for years now, using the website listings to find and log the caches that you've found, at no cost to you. What is keeping you from becoming a Premium Member and helping to fund the activity that you value so much?

 

Before mine, and 99% of registered account's time, but I'm quite sure "Charter Member" means you bought your premium membership in late 2001, and have never lapsed since day one. :o

 

Now I'm all for the cracking jokes about the "elitist" thing as much as anyone else, but it has been shown there are a few places where there are absoluteley obscene numbers of PMO caches; like Smyrna, Tn. or Portland, Oregon. The OP is from Oregon. Most people appear to be making such a high percentage of the caches in these areas PMO, just because they can. I do that too. I make all my caches open to everyone "just because I can". :P

 

That is until the day when I personally determine that "TFTC" only logs have officially overrun Geocaching. Them I'm going to do a total 180, and make all my caches PMO. :D

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We've been geocaching since year III, and have spent many hours and miles loving this sport. Lately, I have found myself getting irritated with the tendency toward complexity into which Geocaching has evolved. The sport used to be a simple, free, fun sport open to everyone who had a gps and the desire to use it. The latest recent-cache list, which prompted my mini-rant, includes SEVEN caches placed by the same 'cacher within less than a mile (spaced barely the allowed limit apart!)---and all open only to Premium Members. I'm wondering if this kind of exclusivity irritates anyone else... Has Geocaching created some kind of "Us and Them" snobbish competition?

 

So, your gripe has to do with Premium Member Only caches (aka "PMO"s), or with too many caches near each other, too many caches by the same owner, or with increased complexity?

 

PMO caches do irritate some. But not most. Most seem to feel that membership has its privliges, and that you get what you're willing to pay for. You have been caching for years now, using the website listings to find and log the caches that you've found, at no cost to you. What is keeping you from becoming a Premium Member and helping to fund the activity that you value so much?

 

Before mine, and 99% of registered account's time, but I'm quite sure "Charter Member" means you bought your premium membership in late 2001, and have never lapsed since day one. :o

 

Whoops! I believe you are right about that. The OP IS a Premium Member. Sorry about missing that point, The Posse.
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You know, I went to the movies the other day and when I saw how much it costs to get in, I asked if I could get in free. The manager said that I could see one of the older movies for free, but it would cost me the regular price to see one of the newer ones. HOW ELITIST! It's so arrogant. This is ruining the movie industry!

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You know, I went to the movies the other day and when I saw how much it costs to get in, I asked if I could get in free. The manager said that I could see one of the older movies for free, but it would cost me the regular price to see one of the newer ones. HOW ELITIST! It's so arrogant. This is ruining the movie industry!

 

Little to do with the fact there are dozens of features of a premium membership, none of which anyone has ever called "elitist" (to my knowledge), only that one of those features is the ability to designate caches for premium members only. Which someone calls elitist about every other week.

 

However, who knows? Someone could start a "Pocket Queries are elitist" thread. To be followed by the "Bookmark lists are elitist" thread. :)

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Whoops! I believe you are right about that. The OP IS a Premium Member. Sorry about missing that point, The Posse.

 

Might say "Charter Member" here in the forums, check the profile and the OP is "Member" :unsure:

 

That has come up before, and I have personal experience with it!! I've twice temporarily lost my Premium membership due to pay pal screw ups (I've been paying by the month since 2004; Why? Because I'm an elitist who likes to give them an extra $6 a year). Where was I? Oh yeah, the forum status doesn't change immediately. I've gone 2 or 3 weeks as a basic member without it changing. Who knows, could take months before it updates.

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We've been geocaching since year III, and have spent many hours and miles loving this sport. Lately, I have found myself getting irritated with the tendency toward complexity into which Geocaching has evolved. The sport used to be a simple, free, fun sport open to everyone who had a gps and the desire to use it. The latest recent-cache list, which prompted my mini-rant, includes SEVEN caches placed by the same 'cacher within less than a mile (spaced barely the allowed limit apart!)---and all open only to Premium Members. I'm wondering if this kind of exclusivity irritates anyone else... Has Geocaching created some kind of "Us and Them" snobbish competition?

 

So, your gripe has to do with Premium Member Only caches (aka "PMO"s), or with too many caches near each other, too many caches by the same owner, or with increased complexity?

 

PMO caches do irritate some. But not most. Most seem to feel that membership has its privliges, and that you get what you're willing to pay for. You have been caching for years now, using the website listings to find and log the caches that you've found, at no cost to you. What is keeping you from becoming a Premium Member and helping to fund the activity that you value so much?

 

Before mine, and 99% of registered account's time, but I'm quite sure "Charter Member" means you bought your premium membership in late 2001, and have never lapsed since day one. :o

 

Now I'm all for the cracking jokes about the "elitist" thing as much as anyone else, but it has been shown there are a few places where there are absoluteley obscene numbers of PMO caches; like Smyrna, Tn. or Portland, Oregon. The OP is from Oregon. Most people appear to be making such a high percentage of the caches in these areas PMO, just because they can. I do that too. I make all my caches open to everyone "just because I can". :P

 

That is until the day when I personally determine that "TFTC" only logs have officially overrun Geocaching. Them I'm going to do a total 180, and make all my caches PMO. :D

 

I live in the Portland area and can say that there are a large amount of PMO's out here and we have placed a few ourselves, but with specific reasons.

One cache is at a state park and was a condition of getting it placed there. Another is close by a heavy residential area where the land owners didn't mind the cache but didn't want a ton of traffic. I think there are good reasons to place PMO's, but just making one PMO because you can does seem a little senseless. I think it is all about targeting your audience and deciding what kind of traffic you really want.

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Whoops! I believe you are right about that. The OP IS a Premium Member. Sorry about missing that point, The Posse.

 

Might say "Charter Member" here in the forums, check the profile and the OP is "Member" :unsure:

I could be wrong about this but I think the very first paid members where given the title "Charter Members". Providing they still retain a paid yearly membership, they keep the title of Charter Members in honor of their initial support. Of course, once the yearly membership fee is declined then they become regular (non-paying) members.

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Whoops! I believe you are right about that. The OP IS a Premium Member. Sorry about missing that point, The Posse.

 

Might say "Charter Member" here in the forums, check the profile and the OP is "Member" :unsure:

I could be wrong about this but I think the very first paid members where given the title "Charter Members". Providing they still retain a paid yearly membership, they keep the title of Charter Members in honor of their initial support. Of course, once the yearly membership fee is declined then they become regular (non-paying) members.

 

Yup. And as we all know, the forums are prone to lagging behind the actual account status, which is why the user group shown doesn't always reflect the real membership type.

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Now I'm all for the cracking jokes about the "elitist" thing as much as anyone else, but it has been shown there are a few places where there are absoluteley obscene numbers of PMO caches; like Smyrna, Tn. or Portland, Oregon.

Another is Seattle, WA.

 

Wow, a lot there too. Must be a NW thing. Well, at least that Peace Sign in the water isn't all PMO. :lol: I briefly looked at Portland, a couple people with hundreds of PMO's, I saw another with about 40 hides, all PMO. Very foreign concept to me. If 1% of the caches in my 50 mile radius are PMO, it would be a lot. And I live on the Canadian border, that spans two countries.

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I think charter members are those with the most right to complain about PMO caches.

Regardless of the timeline, I would argue that, with roughly 80 bajillion non-PMO caches out there, no one has the right to complain about PMO caches. Unless someone is firmly entrenched in an entitlement rich fantasy land, expecting a steadily growing website's services to be provided for free, in perpetuity, is about as naive as it gets.

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Before mine, and 99% of registered account's time, but I'm quite sure "Charter Member" means you bought your premium membership in late 2001, and have never lapsed since day one.

You're quite sure? Please check my status and join date. :o

 

Of course. You're using a clever greasemonkey script, I'm quite sure. :lol:

 

Allrighty then. Premium memberships must have not been offered until 2002. I'll betcha you are one of the last possible ones, and the 1 year cut-off just barely made it until 2003.

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I think charter members are those with the most right to complain about PMO caches.

Regardless of the timeline, I would argue that, with roughly 80 bajillion non-PMO caches out there, no one has the right to complain about PMO caches. Unless someone is firmly entrenched in an entitlement rich fantasy land, expecting a steadily growing website's services to be provided for free, in perpetuity, is about as naive as it gets.

 

Nobody said there shouldn't be a payed, premium membership. The argument being made here has to do with PMO caches. A paid membership has plenty of other benefits without PMO caches.

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The argument being made here has to do with PMO caches.

I know. My reply still stands. Creating and (easily) finding/logging PMO caches are two of the many benefits of a premium membership. Expecting all aspects of geocaching to be free, forever, is horribly naive, and a clear indication of someone with an entitlement mentality. Running a website costs money. Often, the bigger the website gets, the more it costs to run. Hence, the introduction of premium memberships... which led to PMO caches.

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