Photo Etiquette

[+CamerLot]

Hi

 

I have just hidden my first cache and have been really pleased with the comments in the logs (5 cachers have found it so far). The cache is a disguised container so not obvious, my concern is that one of the people to log the find has also published a photo of the cache right at GZ (showing exactly what the cache looks like, how it opens and the tree that it is hidden behind). Now as a cacher, I have found pictures like this handy when I am stuck on a particular cache, but as a CO I now feel this has ruined the hunt for future cachers a bit, especially as it is the first log on the page (although not the FTF). I am tempted to ask the them to remove the photo, at least until the cache has been out there a bit longer, but don't want to offend anyone.

 

Would appreciate some general opinions on this please.

[+jindi kid]

because it is your cache it is entirely your choice, people know that if they look in the logs there might be spoilers but if it ruins the hide then I would ask them to delete it, nicely

[+ajpulido]

i am new to geocaching and wanted to take a lot of pics when i first went out. mostly just b/c i was excited and wanted to show all my friends what i was doing. i didn't know if it would be ok to post pics in my logs but on the site and on the apps it does notify people that there are possible "spoilers" in the logs...so to read at their own risk. i only read logs if i am stuck and need an extra hint or clue or i wait until after i have found the cache and am posting my own log. i have been posting my pics on facebook in a Geocaching album but i wouldn't post them on the logs just b/c i wouldn't want to spoil anything for someone that came across the pics by accident. n

[+The Blorenges]

In this situation, where the added photo is giving away your carefully disguised container, I would not hesitate to delete the log but would immediately send an email to the cacher explaining the reasons why I'd done so and inviting them to relog the find without the photo.

 

It's a pity that cache owners are not able to delete individual spoiler pics from logs. It's been suggested as a 'feature to be added' in the Feedback Forum and I understand that Groundspeak are considering it.

 

MrsB

[+Don_J]

In this situation, where the added photo is giving away your carefully disguised container, I would not hesitate to delete the log but would immediately send an email to the cacher explaining the reasons why I'd done so and inviting them to relog the find without the photo.

 

It's a pity that cache owners are not able to delete individual spoiler pics from logs. It's been suggested as a 'feature to be added' in the Feedback Forum and I understand that Groundspeak are considering it.

 

MrsB

 

It seems that this particular cacher has posted 145 spoiler pics.

[+The Blorenges]

In this situation, where the added photo is giving away your carefully disguised container, I would not hesitate to delete the log but would immediately send an email to the cacher explaining the reasons why I'd done so and inviting them to relog the find without the photo.

 

It's a pity that cache owners are not able to delete individual spoiler pics from logs. It's been suggested as a 'feature to be added' in the Feedback Forum and I understand that Groundspeak are considering it.

 

MrsB

 

It seems that this particular cacher has posted 145 spoiler pics.

 

Have they?

 

Then they need a smacked botty.

 

MrsB

[+MartyBartfast]

In this situation, where the added photo is giving away your carefully disguised container, I would not hesitate to delete the log but would immediately send an email to the cacher explaining the reasons why I'd done so and inviting them to relog the find without the photo.

 

It's a pity that cache owners are not able to delete individual spoiler pics from logs. It's been suggested as a 'feature to be added' in the Feedback Forum and I understand that Groundspeak are considering it.

 

MrsB

 

It seems that this particular cacher has posted 145 spoiler pics.

 

Well they seem to be relatively new (only joined earlier this year) and seem to like to take a picture of every cache they find. Perhaps they just don't know it's not the done thing to post pics of clever hides/camo, and are never going to know unless someone tells them, so as Mrs B says delete the log and drop them a mail explaining why and they will probably be more sensitive in future.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

In this situation, where the added photo is giving away your carefully disguised container, I would not hesitate to delete the log but would immediately send an email to the cacher explaining the reasons why I'd done so and inviting them to relog the find without the photo.

 

It's a pity that cache owners are not able to delete individual spoiler pics from logs. It's been suggested as a 'feature to be added' in the Feedback Forum and I understand that Groundspeak are considering it.

 

MrsB

 

It seems that this particular cacher has posted 145 spoiler pics.

 

If you look at the orientation of their thumb in the photos they also seem to have invented a photo based cache rating system. Apparently they've also found a lot of mediocre caches, since their thumb is pointing sideways in most of the photos.

[GOF and Bacall]

Delete.

[+A & J Tooling]

I'd delete it and send the person a really nasty-gram explaining that they are ruining the game for a lot of other people. BTW, your profile picture shows your son holding something that looks like a cache? Surely not!?!

[+redsox_mark]

That photo looks very dark to me, so I can't really see the detail. I know a number of experienced cachers who take a photo of most every cache - but they 1) take the photos in a place which doesn't show where the cache is hidden, and 2) if the camo/design is something unique they wouldn't show it.

 

I agree with the others; if you think the photo gives away too much, then delete the log and explain to them why.

[+CamerLot]

BTW, your profile picture shows your son holding something that looks like a cache? Surely not!?!

 

LOL actually that is our SatNav That photo was taken on the way to the cache.

 

Thanks everyone for your opinions. Rather than just deleting the whole log though, could I not message him and ask him to remove the photo himself, explaining why? Just seems less harsh, is it possible for him to do that?

[+Bear and Ragged]

Thanks everyone for your opinions. Rather than just deleting the whole log though, could I not message him and ask him to remove the photo himself, explaining why? Just seems less harsh, is it possible for him to do that?

That would be the friendly way to do it.

But be prepared for the photo to remain on-site for several days until they get the email, log on, edit the photo...

Or they ignore it!

 

Looking at their photos, I suspect they are 'young' cachers.

[+t4e]

i would delete the log and send them an email explaining that by postings such pictures they spoil the fun for future visitors

 

who know where else he is posting pictures so i would also point out the new addition to the Terms of Use,

 

4. Use of Publishing Tools and Forums

 

m) Publish, in any form of media, the solutions, hints, spoilers, or any hidden coordinates for any geocache without consent from the cache owner.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/termsofuse.aspx

[+The Blorenges]

BTW, your profile picture shows your son holding something that looks like a cache? Surely not!?!

 

LOL actually that is our SatNav That photo was taken on the way to the cache.

 

Thanks everyone for your opinions. Rather than just deleting the whole log though, could I not message him and ask him to remove the photo himself, explaining why? Just seems less harsh, is it possible for him to do that?

 

Yes, you could do exactly that: He can edit his own log to remove just the photograph. It's all down to how bad you feel the spoiler is, how patient you feel, how promptly he responds to your email request.

 

I have tried that route in the past... Sometimes it works well... other times the cacher just ignores your email!

 

Good luck

 

MrsB

[+JfLDave]

I don't think logs should contain spoilers. I haven't cached in a while but I believe logs should be for simply logging your visit and providing useful info on the state of the cache. Logs that contain spoilers that aren't encrypted annoy me, pictures even more so. Can cache owners start cracking down and stamp this growing trend out?

[+CamerLot]

I have sent him a polite email asking him to remove the picture and explaining why. If he does not respond after a few days I will delete the log and send another email explaining what I have done and invite him to relog the find without the photo.

 

Sometimes I am just too nice for my own good...lol

[+L0ne.R]

I know a number of experienced cachers who take a photo of most every cache - but they 1) take the photos in a place which doesn't show where the cache is hidden, and 2) if the camo/design is something unique they wouldn't show it.

 

I take photos of just about every cache I find and store those pictures in my Flickr account then set permissions to 'private'.

 

I would suggest he might want to do the same thing. I'd also let the finder know that I will be deleting the log and invite him to repost without the photo. And I would copy and paste his log into my email message so that he can copy and paste it back into a new log (without the spoiler photo).

Edited October 6, 2011 by Lone R

[+CamerLot]

I have sent him a polite email asking him to remove the picture and explaining why. If he does not respond after a few days I will delete the log and send another email explaining what I have done and invite him to relog the find without the photo.

 

Sometimes I am just too nice for my own good...lol

 

Plus I have edited the cache page to ask that people don't post spoiler photo's of the cache container.

[+Bear and Ragged]

I would suggest he might want to do the same thing. I'd also let the finder know that I will be deleting the log and invite him to repost without the photo. And I would copy and paste his log into my email message so that he can copy and paste it back into a new log (without the spoiler photo).

When a log is deleted the 'system' sends an email to tell you your log has been deleted, and includes your log. (So no need to copy and paste it!)

[+CamerLot]

Thank you again everyone. He has kindly deleted the photo from his log already following my email, so all is well in the world again

[+SmallsKC]

We only started caching this summer. I did not know at first that it was not ok to post pictures of the caches. I saw many photos posted in various logs so assumed it was ok. I did a lot of reading on the forums and learned quickly that in some cases it is ok and in other cases it is not. I took many photos of my kids while geocaching across the country this summer when we first started and included some photos in our logs. I never posted the cache in the actual hiding spot though. I used common sense though and if the container was very unique and I felt the photo would spoil the experience and surprise for other cachers then I didn't post the photos regardless if the CO included a note asking people not to post photos. Please give newbies the benefit of the doubt and understand we don't know better at first. I know not everybody uses common sense and not everybody reads the dos and don'ts of posting logs either so these people do need to be educated. Most people would be happy to remove photos as they didn't mean any harm in the first place.

 

We just hid our first geocache and specifically asked finders not to post photos or any form of spoilers that would give away the solution to the puzzle or spoil the cache itself. We plan to do that on all of our cache pages.

 

 

I'd delete it and send the person a really nasty-gram explaining that they are ruining the game for a lot of other people.

 

Really? Come on. I hope you weren't serious. I doubt the person meant any harm and really doubt they meant to intentionally spoil the cache for others.

 

I have sent him a polite email asking him to remove the picture and explaining why.

 

Thank you again everyone. He has kindly deleted the photo from his log already following my email, so all is well in the world again

 

I am so glad you approached it this way and didn't send a "really nasty-gram". By treating others with kindness, understanding, and respect you will almost always get the results you hoped for. I wish everybody handled things this way.

[+Bear and Ragged]

We just hid our first geocache and specifically asked finders not to post photos or any form of spoilers that would give away the solution to the puzzle or spoil the cache itself. We plan to do that on all of our cache pages.

 

It should be common sense, and shouldn't need to be stated on the cache page...

If only you could buy 'Common Sense' in the shops!

 

The problem with a spoiler, either a photo or a big hint/spoiler comment in the log, is if a lot of cachers have the cache on a Watchlist, as soon as the log is posted they see the spoiler... Too late deleting the spoiler, it's been seen by everyone who has the cache on Watchlist.

 

Looking at the photos the cacher has taken, I think they are young, certainly keen as every log seems to have a photo!

Just a shame they don't take a little time to read about 'caching and not posting spoilers.

 

Nice that they have deleted the photo though.

[+GeoBain]

I have sent him a polite email asking him to remove the picture and explaining why. If he does not respond after a few days I will delete the log and send another email explaining what I have done and invite him to relog the find without the photo.

 

Sometimes I am just too nice for my own good...lol

 

No worries. That's actually the best way to handle it.

[+L0ne.R]

I would suggest he might want to do the same thing. I'd also let the finder know that I will be deleting the log and invite him to repost without the photo. And I would copy and paste his log into my email message so that he can copy and paste it back into a new log (without the spoiler photo).

When a log is deleted the 'system' sends an email to tell you your log has been deleted, and includes your log. (So no need to copy and paste it!)

 

That's good to know. Thanks.

[+mullyman]

BTW, your profile picture shows your son holding something that looks like a cache? Surely not!?!

 

LOL actually that is our SatNav That photo was taken on the way to the cache.

 

Thanks everyone for your opinions. Rather than just deleting the whole log though, could I not message him and ask him to remove the photo himself, explaining why? Just seems less harsh, is it possible for him to do that?

 

It seems to me, from reading through this thread, that there are quite a few people that just want to be nasty about it from the get go. In my honest opinion, drop the guy a note, explain why you don't want a spoiler photo like that on there, and then ask him if he minds removing it. You're going to get further being nice about it than you will being a jerk right out of the gate. I know if someone wrote to me, was cool, and asked me to remove one of my videos I'd not have a problem with it. If they came firing at me with both barrels right from the get go, sorry, it stays.

 

Now, if you ask nicely and he's a jerk about it then just delete his log and any future log that he attempts to leave. Of course with that kind of retaliation he'd probably go out and mess your cache up so there's really no way to win if he's a jerk.

MULLY

[+Don_J]

BTW, your profile picture shows your son holding something that looks like a cache? Surely not!?!

 

LOL actually that is our SatNav That photo was taken on the way to the cache.

 

Thanks everyone for your opinions. Rather than just deleting the whole log though, could I not message him and ask him to remove the photo himself, explaining why? Just seems less harsh, is it possible for him to do that?

 

It seems to me, from reading through this thread, that there are quite a few people that just want to be nasty about it from the get go. In my honest opinion, drop the guy a note, explain why you don't want a spoiler photo like that on there, and then ask him if he minds removing it. You're going to get further being nice about it than you will being a jerk right out of the gate. I know if someone wrote to me, was cool, and asked me to remove one of my videos I'd not have a problem with it. If they came firing at me with both barrels right from the get go, sorry, it stays.

 

Now, if you ask nicely and he's a jerk about it then just delete his log and any future log that he attempts to leave. Of course with that kind of retaliation he'd probably go out and mess your cache up so there's really no way to win if he's a jerk.

MULLY

 

Maybe I'm becoming desensitized to the forum, but with the exception of a "joke" post that didn't get much traction, I don't see the nastyness. It seems that all agreed that the photo was a spoiler and it shouldn't be there. Half said delete the log and immediately write to the cache finder and explain the problem. The other half said write the offender and ask him to remove the photo. Both are acceptable. I was very pleased to read the report from the OP that they took the second option and it worked out.

 

Perhaps you see nastyness in those that choose to delete the log outright. I'm never a fan of that, have never done it, but will reserve the right if it becomes necessary.

 

I hid a three foot long plastic cockroach with a standard decon container coming out of his butt, representing an egg sack. If the FTF, or anyone else posted a photo of it, it would be deleted in a heartbeat.

[+The Blorenges]

... I hid a three foot long plastic cockroach with a standard decon container coming out of his butt, representing an egg sack. If the FTF, or anyone else posted a photo of it, it would be deleted in a heartbeat.

 

Yes. We have a similar cache which involves a 6" long fly (not quite as impressive as your cockroach).

 

One of the very first finders posted a close-up photo of the container, despite the words in the cache description. We emailed politely, explaining, and asked him to remove it. He did - But he replaced it with exactly the same photo but with a photo-shopped black cross over it - you could still tell exactly what the container was...

 

At that point we did delete the log.

 

MrsB

[+mullyman]

I hid a three foot long plastic cockroach with a standard decon container coming out of his butt, representing an egg sack. If the FTF, or anyone else posted a photo of it, it would be deleted in a heartbeat.

 

Yeah, I can see your point. Only thing that bothers me is that the log page clearly states that pics and logs could contain spoilers. It's up to the reader to decide if he wants to look at them or not. Myself, I don't look at logs, other than checking for DNF's, and I don't look at pics until I'm just dead in the water or until after I find it so a spoiler pic wouldn't be seen before the find.

MULLY

[+bflentje]

We only started caching this summer. I did not know at first that it was not ok to post pictures of the caches. I saw many photos posted in various logs so assumed it was ok.

 

If you look anything like your avatar, you can post pictures of yourself at anytime holding any cache at any place you like.

[+Frank Broughton]

In this situation, where the added photo is giving away your carefully disguised container, I would not hesitate to delete the log but would immediately send an email to the cacher explaining the reasons why I'd done so and inviting them to relog the find without the photo.

 

It's a pity that cache owners are not able to delete individual spoiler pics from logs. It's been suggested as a 'feature to be added' in the Feedback Forum and I understand that Groundspeak are considering it.

 

MrsB

 

It seems that this particular cacher has posted 145 spoiler pics.

 

144 now with this one deleted

[+CanadianRockies]

Only thing that bothers me is that the log page clearly states that pics and logs could contain spoilers. It's up to the reader to decide if he wants to look at them or not. Myself, I don't look at logs, other than checking for DNF's, and I don't look at pics until I'm just dead in the water or until after I find it so a spoiler pic wouldn't be seen before the find.

Yeah, each listing page says, "**Warning! Spoilers may be included in the descriptions or links." I think "may" (indicating it is permissible) is a poor word choice and Groundspeak meant to say "might" (warning that it is possible). My interpretation is supported by Groundspeak's Terms of Use Agreement, where you agree not to: "Publish, in any form of media, the solutions, hints, spoilers, or any hidden coordinates for any geocache without consent from the cache owner."

 

I often read logs, since they can provide better coordinates, indicate problems with the cache, offer suggestions on good ways to reach the cache, or include other helpful information.

Edited October 7, 2011 by CanadianRockies

[+autigerman]

I know a number of experienced cachers who take a photo of most every cache - but they 1) take the photos in a place which doesn't show where the cache is hidden, and 2) if the camo/design is something unique they wouldn't show it.

 

I take photos of just about every cache I find and store those pictures in my Flickr account then set permissions to 'private'.

 

I would suggest he might want to do the same thing. I'd also let the finder know that I will be deleting the log and invite him to repost without the photo. And I would copy and paste his log into my email message so that he can copy and paste it back into a new log (without the spoiler photo).

 

+1

[+A & J Tooling]

I'd delete it and send the person a really nasty-gram explaining that they are ruining the game for a lot of other people. BTW, your profile picture shows your son holding something that looks like a cache? Surely not!?!

I can't figure out how to edit my post so here:

[+tozainamboku]

I hid a three foot long plastic cockroach with a standard decon container coming out of his butt, representing an egg sack. If the FTF, or anyone else posted a photo of it, it would be deleted in a heartbeat.

But you didn't delete my log about forgetting the DEET and the bugs seeming bigger than usual.

 

Funny how sometimes our attitude changes when we become cache owners.

 

The online log is supposed to be for sharing our experiences with others. It's quite natural when finding a unique cache container to want to share this experience. Sure it may make it easier for someone else to find the cache or remove the surprise. It very hard to determine when a picture (or other information) will be seen as spoiler by the cache owner and when the cache owner might appreciate the comment or photo about the cache. In my experience spoilers are generally not the worse thing that can happen. Had I seen a picture of Don's bug before I found it I might not have nearly jumped out of my pant's when I found it, but it still would have been on my favorite list.

 

Now cache owner's can certainly delete spoilers from their cache pages. It would be nice if Groundspeak would implement to oft requested capability to delete photos without having to delete the entire log. But on the other hand I would ask that cache owner's no abuse this capability. Remember the finder is trying to share their experience. A spoiler is letting you know they enjoyed the way you camouflaged or hid your cache. Remember that someone took the time to post a picture to your cache page. Be gracious when asking them to remove it and let them know that you want others to have the opportunity to have the experience of surprise or satisfaction in finding the cache without the spoiler.

 

Groundspeak has recently added to the Terms of Use a section on publishing spoilers without the permission of the cache owner. This is in response to cache owners' sense of entitlement to not have spoilers published for their caches. I personally think this is a misguided "rule". The nature of geocaching is to share our experiences. The number one topic of discussion at events is sharing stories about neat caches we have found. When we have trouble finding a cache we ask the cache owner or our friends who found the cache for a spoiler. I view spoilers as a natural part of geocaching. Attempts to stop them are not going to be successful. A cache owner has some control over their own cache page - they can delete spoilers in people's logs. But their isn't much they can do if someone posts pictures of all the caches they find on their Flickr account. Asking Groundspeak to go after the account of some who posts pictures on their blog seems a draconian measure to stop an activity that is natural. Groundspeak should instead educate cache finder as to why owner's might not appreciated spoilers and educate cache owners as to why they should not expect they can keep spoilers away entirely.

[+SwineFlew]

I'd delete it and send the person a really nasty-gram explaining that they are ruining the game for a lot of other people. BTW, your profile picture shows your son holding something that looks like a cache? Surely not!?!

I can't figure out how to edit my post so here:

 

That pic is a spoiler, please remove it.

[+jellis]

We have a newbie in our area that makes it a habit to take a picture of the cache containers and posts them. I don't know if the COs know or care. And I too wish GS would give you the option to just delete an image but not the log. Has anyone suggested it in the Feedback?

[+CanadianRockies]

Groundspeak has recently added to the Terms of Use a section on publishing spoilers without the permission of the cache owner. This is in response to cache owners' sense of entitlement to not have spoilers published for their caches.

I don't think Groundspeak forbade unauthorized spoilers in response to "cache owners' sense of entitlement." After all, the COs know what their own caches look like and where they are hidden -- nothing to spoil.

 

I think Groundspeak acted out of concern for other cachers who enjoy the surprise of discovering caches and would prefer not to have that surprise spoiled by logs and/or photos. Sure, some geocachers might prefer to share their experiences with others via spoilers in logs and photos, but their actions can have an effect on how others enjoy the game. So, how should we resolve these conflicting preferences?

 

Groundspeak has decided to let COs use their best judgments to determine when spoilers are allowed. People who wish to share their experiences in a way that might spoil the fun of others must have a CO's permission to do so. And COs are given the ability to delete logs and photos that include spoilers, if they choose to do so.

Edited October 8, 2011 by CanadianRockies

[+Don_J]

We have a newbie in our area that makes it a habit to take a picture of the cache containers and posts them. I don't know if the COs know or care. And I too wish GS would give you the option to just delete an image but not the log. Has anyone suggested it in the Feedback?

 

Yes, it has been "Under Review" for the last nine months.

 

Feedback

[The_Hypnotoad]

There's a cacher in my area that likes to take pictures from the point of view of the cache.

 

Like this one. Anyone else still wondering where the cache is???

 

If someone does this to one of mine, it's getting deleted.

 

[GOF and Bacall]

There's a cacher in my area that likes to take pictures from the point of view of the cache.

 

Like this one. Anyone else still wondering where the cache is???

 

If someone does this to one of mine, it's getting deleted.

 

 

And yet you posted it here.

[+SwineFlew]

There's a cacher in my area that likes to take pictures from the point of view of the cache.

 

Like this one. Anyone else still wondering where the cache is???

 

If someone does this to one of mine, it's getting deleted.

 

 

And yet you posted it here.

 

What I thought.

[+tozainamboku]

Groundspeak has recently added to the Terms of Use a section on publishing spoilers without the permission of the cache owner. This is in response to cache owners' sense of entitlement to not have spoilers published for their caches.

I don't think Groundspeak forbade unauthorized spoilers in response to "cache owners' sense of entitlement." After all, the COs know what their own caches look like and where they are hidden -- nothing to spoil.

 

I think Groundspeak acted out of concern for other cachers who enjoy the surprise of discovering caches and would prefer not to have that surprise spoiled by logs and/or photos. Sure, some geocachers might prefer to share their experiences with others via spoilers in logs and photos, but their actions can have an effect on how others enjoy the game. So, how should we resolve these conflicting preferences?

 

Groundspeak has decided to let COs use their best judgments to determine when spoilers are allowed. People who wish to share their experiences in a way that might spoil the fun of others must have a CO's permission to do so. And COs are given the ability to delete logs and photos that include spoilers, if they choose to do so.

In a way I agree. This is why allowing cache owners to remove spoilers from the cache page makes some sense. As a finder who likes the challenge of figuring out the tough hides for myself, it would bother me to find a plain text spoiler as soon as I look at some logs. Of course giving the cache owner the right to delete or permanently encrypt the log doesn't protect me fully. I often add a tough cache to my watchlist and will see a spoiler when it gets posted, before the cache owner can delete it. And nothing I do has stopped cache owners (and sometimes other cachers) from sending me email with spoilers that I haven't asked for when they see my DNF log. I would have to stop attending events and never open emails, if I really want to avoid spoilers.

 

If the reason for not allowing is spoilers is to preserve the fun of the finder, why are spoilers OK if they have the permission of the cache owner? A spoiler is a spoiler whether or not the cache owner gives permission. No, the TOU phrase is there because some owners feel an entitlement to control the information others post about their cache. I think that spoilers for caches are no different than website that have spoilers for movies or cheats for video games. I don't see where movie producers or video game authors have this sense of entitlement. They understand the nature of the game. People will post this information on various websites and there isn't much that they can do. A studio or a video game company can remove spoilers from their own websites but the can't stop this from happening elsewhere. The Groundspeak TOUs seems to imply they will go after people who publish spoilers on YouTube or in their personal blogs without CO permission. Is this really what we want? Geocachers like to share their experiences. In the course of sharing, sometimes a spoiler will occur. If we become too worried that a cache owner will complain to Groundspeak and we'll get banned for posting something in our geocaching blogs will that result in people not blogging?

 

The current Groundspeak blog has an article on vlogs where people are posting videos of their cache hunts. It contains an editor's note to make sure to obtain cache owner permission when featuring a specific cache and spoilers and include a spoiler warning if a spoiler is absolutely necessary. But I find this note somewhat threatening in light of the TOU. If I make a mistake and think what I show isn't really a spoiler and then get a cache owner who disagrees then I'm screwed. So instead I have to get permission from every cache that I might show in the video. Well there goes that cool cache whose owner hasn't logged in for a year and whose email isn't validated. I can write a movie or video game review and not have to worry if I spoil something. But cache owners with a sense of entitlement are a different story.

[+Bear and Ragged]

There's a cacher in my area that likes to take pictures from the point of view of the cache.

 

Like this one. Anyone else still wondering where the cache is???

 

If someone does this to one of mine, it's getting deleted.

 

And yet you posted it here.

 

What I thought.

 

As it doesn't say which cache it is, it's not much of a spoiler.

Posted on the caches page... Big spoiler!

[+Ambrosia]

I'd delete it and send the person a really nasty-gram explaining that they are ruining the game for a lot of other people. BTW, your profile picture shows your son holding something that looks like a cache? Surely not!?!

I can't figure out how to edit my post so here:

 

Thanks for the seizure.

[+DanOCan]

Almost eight years of caching and I've never had a spoiler photo ruin a cache experience for me yet. If I don't want to ruin the experience I don't look in the gallery. Seems pretty simple.

 

The forums are fun because half the time we complain how "no one reads the cache pages" and the other half worrying people will have their cache experience ruined because they've spent all day looking at ever picture posted in the gallery.

[+CanadianRockies]

The current Groundspeak blog has an article on vlogs where people are posting videos of their cache hunts. It contains an editor's note to make sure to obtain cache owner permission when featuring a specific cache and spoilers and include a spoiler warning if a spoiler is absolutely necessary. But I find this note somewhat threatening in light of the TOU. If I make a mistake and think what I show isn't really a spoiler and then get a cache owner who disagrees then I'm screwed. So instead I have to get permission from every cache that I might show in the video.

The Groundspeak TOU Agreement prohibits people from publishing spoilers. It doesn't prohibit people from publishing everything that a cache owner considers a spoiler.

 

If you don't think it is a spoiler, then go ahead and publish it, if you want. If the cache owner complains to Groundspeak, then explain to Groundspeak why you don't consider it to be a spoiler. If Groundspeak rules against you but the issue really is borderline, then I doubt they would ban you if you remove the spoiler (or get owner permission).

[+CanadianRockies]

Almost eight years of caching and I've never had a spoiler photo ruin a cache experience for me yet. If I don't want to ruin the experience I don't look in the gallery. Seems pretty simple.

It's probably not that simple.

 

I imagine a spoiler photo wouldn't ruin a cache experience for you, but it might for other geocachers. Of course, they don't have to look at galleries or read previous logs. But some geocachers who don't want spoilers probably derive enjoyment from the galleries and obtain helpful (but non-spoiler) information by reading the logs. It just seems courteous to not upload/post spoilers that ruins their fun. I try to avoid doing this.

[+WarNinjas]

I think you handled it well! That is the way I would have done it and it all worked out. I think ask nicely for them to remove it first and then if they don't for a couple of days just delete it and send them a message.

-WarNinjas

[+tozainamboku]

The current Groundspeak blog has an article on vlogs where people are posting videos of their cache hunts. It contains an editor's note to make sure to obtain cache owner permission when featuring a specific cache and spoilers and include a spoiler warning if a spoiler is absolutely necessary. But I find this note somewhat threatening in light of the TOU. If I make a mistake and think what I show isn't really a spoiler and then get a cache owner who disagrees then I'm screwed. So instead I have to get permission from every cache that I might show in the video.

The Groundspeak TOU Agreement prohibits people from publishing spoilers. It doesn't prohibit people from publishing everything that a cache owner considers a spoiler.

 

If you don't think it is a spoiler, then go ahead and publish it, if you want. If the cache owner complains to Groundspeak, then explain to Groundspeak why you don't consider it to be a spoiler. If Groundspeak rules against you but the issue really is borderline, then I doubt they would ban you if you remove the spoiler (or get owner permission).

So I have to guess the unwritten secret guidelines of what Groundspeak considers a spoiler? Sorry that doesn't help. The TOU actualy says you agree not to publish in any form of media the solutions, hints, spoilers, or any hidden coordinates for any geocache without consent from the cache owner. I wonder what makes something a "hint".

 

And sure if Groundspeak wrote and said that what I published on my Facebook page was a spoiler I could take it down and they probably would not ban me. But if I really believe that what I published was not a spoiler, why shouldn't I fight for my right to publish it. The really silly part is that it wouldn't be hard to publish spoilers using a name that is not traceable to my GC.com account. The TOU is basically unenforceable. It might stop someone like me from publishing anything about someone else's cache for fear of not knowing what Groundspeak considers "the solutions, hints, spoilers, or any hidden coordinates for any geocache". My argument is this will have a chilling effect on cacher blogs. But it certainly isn't going to stop the so-called cheat sites for puzzle caches that I believe were the real target of the TOU change.