tranquility website/tracking numbers/database

3.4k · October 4, 2011

in the other thread the OP had closed, i am guessing because of the questions people had, a few things piqued my curiosity:

one was the mention of a GS public database that one could find all the TB numbers of coins, even those that are not activated.

i am unaware of any such public database. how does one gain access to that database? and why on earth would GS assign TB numbers to EVERY SINGLE COIN out there, even those that are not activated. i thought TB numbers were assigned randomly when the coin was activated.

does anyone know when those TB numbers are assigned?

for example, the templar coins - if i wanted to find all the TB numbers of those coins, there is a database where i can do that? or i can ask Groundspeak for that information? and how does one ask GS for that anyway.

so how did the creator of the tranquility website obtain the information about when tracking numbers were sold to castleman and infer there were several mintings of a version? how is that information public? or is all of this just fancy guessing? just because numbers were sold for a coin, does not mean those coins were actually manufactured.

since unactivated coins are traded, sold, all of the time, how is the information correct in who owns what unactivated tranquility. for that matter, if i sold an activated tranquility and the buyer has not adopted the coin, then that coin still lists as belonging to me even though it isn't. if that information is unreliable, how can the rest be thought as true.

i have a tranquility for sale on ebay now and more to come, i am certainly not going to make it public who buys those coins when they sell.

my coin is unactivated, how does the creator of the site know WHICH tracking number is supposedly assigned to that coin since Groundspeak does not know i own that coin? that information is NOT part of any public database.

why are some people who participated in the creation of the tranquiity site, who have said publicly they own most of the tranquilities, not listed as owners of unactivated coins? it seems some folks can control their name being used on the site and others cannot.

why cannot i get my name removed from an unactivated coin when i request it? shouldn't i have that right? that info is not on the web.

it may seem as if i am making a tempest in a teapot, but this whole thing about minting numbers/TB numbers/tracking numbers/GS database does not make sense.

edited for poor grammar and spelling.

Edited October 4, 2011 by RedShoesGirl

October 4, 2011

All valid questions that I'd be interested to know the answers to as well.

October 4, 2011

I think you can get all informations you need by using the trackable search function.

For example take a look at one of my sold Platons Atlantis:

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?tracker=TB4NJC7

found by searching for "Platon" at trackable search: http://www.geocaching.com/track/search.aspx?k=platon )

Changing last digit of reference number from 7 to 8

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?tracker=TB4NJC8 = a Platons Atlantis again

now changing to 9:

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?tracker=TB4NJC9 = a unactivated Platons Atlantis

.

TB4NJD6

.

TB4NJE4

.

all are Platons Atlantis

looks like all reference numbers are "created" same time the trackingcodes have done. Because how does the system knows that TB4NJC9 is a Platons Atlantis which is not activated.. well ok, if someone received the activationcode but hasn't activated them .....

writing a script checking all possible reference numbers is no problem (I can't do it but it's possible and easy for sure)

checking them and looking at source code will show information about the icon and the path to icon (for eample http://www.geocaching.com/images/wpttypes/4755.gif)

----> 4755.gif in source code = it's a Platons Atlantis

around source code line 274 of an activated coin you will find the owner of the coin....

I think this is the way he got the informations from the public database.

I do not know but I think you will find a block of 450 consecutive reference number because 450 codes for "Platons Atlantis" has been ordered for first run.

And I do not know if all mentioned above is true because I haven't talked to him or asked GS. It's just what came to my mind checking while writing this post.

And sorry for my bad english.

Edited October 4, 2011 by wenzelbub

October 4, 2011

here is what little I know on this subject . . .

I believe that an entry is made in the GC database whenever a tracking code is sold

this includes the tracking code (eg PC12AB), activation code, and the public code (eg TB12ABC)

at purchase time, if a name is known, it is put in the database at that time (the name that appears on your trackables count page, not the one selected by the owner at activation time), and an icon is assigned

the entry then sits there, patiently waiting for someone to activate it

if someone buys a block of codes, they are assigned consecutive TB codes

all items get a tracking code, activation code, and private code immediately

the name and icon can be assigned right away, or not until later

for example, some of the commercial sellers may buy codes (with the same prefix) in blocks of 1,000, and then use them up in blocks of 200 (or so), as new coins get produced

as they use each block, they tell GC what they want for a name and icon

I believe that this was more common in the past, when a custom prefix required larger blocks of codes to be purchased at the same time

as for who knows what, that is entirely up to the owner of the codes

they can carefully record who they sell what codes to

but I doubt that many do this

and there is no way that GC can know this information, unless the code owner reports it to them

and I do not think GC has implemented a way to (nor have an interest in) recording such information

GC knows the name of the vendor that they sold the codes to, but they don't know who bought the items from the vendor

now we move into the areas where I speculate . . .

I suspect that the information on the website in question is a collection of random bits of information and educated guessing (or outright speculation)

if I recall correctly, the maker of those geocoins released various tidbits of info

some on the website where they were sold, some right here in these forums, and some via private e-mail exchanges

for example, if it is known that a block of 400 codes was purchased, then it can be assumed that they have consecutive TB codes

some time on the GC website doing searches would narrow down where the group starts and ends

and I believe that the maker of the coins also mentioned how many of some of the versions were made

again, some time doing searches can narrow this down, but some assumptions have to be made

for example, if 200 codes were used, and 50 each of 4 versions were made, then looking at the names of the activated coins in each range can narrow down which group of 50 got what range of coins

but this presumes that the vendor and the factory used the codes strictly in order

now we get to the part where I am totally baffled . . .

why anybody would care all that much about something that is well-nigh impossible to definitively determine

3.1k · October 4, 2011

in the other thread the OP had closed, i am guessing because of the questions people had, a few things piqued my curiosity:

one was the mention of a GS public database that one could find all the TB numbers of coins, even those that are not activated.

i am unaware of any such public database. how does one gain access to that database? and why on earth would GS assign TB numbers to EVERY SINGLE COIN out there, even those that are not activated. i thought TB numbers were assigned randomly when the coin was activated.

In the other thread the OP showed how to get the activated ones against a particular person. I don't think they said at any point that there was a public database of un-activated ones. But as wenzelbub has shown it is easy to find them.

does anyone know when those TB numbers are assigned?

Given that the numbers are there, I am guessing that when Groundspeak create a Tracking Number and Activation Code, they must also create the TB number at the same time - all in a block as the tracking numbers are sold to the client.

for example, the templar coins - if i wanted to find all the TB numbers of those coins, there is a database where i can do that? or i can ask Groundspeak for that information? and how does one ask GS for that anyway.

so how did the creator of the tranquility website obtain the information about when tracking numbers were sold to castleman and infer there were several mintings of a version? how is that information public? or is all of this just fancy guessing? just because numbers were sold for a coin, does not mean those coins were actually manufactured.

I am pretty sure I have seen the creator of that web site publicly state several times in other threads they obtained the information through numerous discussions/contact with Groundspeak, and as wenzelbub has shown it is easy to locate them.

And... we all know that Jim/CastleMan definitely over produced the Tranquilities as has been proved time and time again, so it should really be no surprise. I know some of the ones I had were 3rd batch coins.

since unactivated coins are traded, sold, all of the time, how is the information correct in who owns what unactivated tranquility. for that matter, if i sold an activated tranquility and the buyer has not adopted the coin, then that coin still lists are belonging to me even though it isn't. if that information is unreliable, how can the rest be thought as true.

i have a tranquility for sale on ebay now and more to come, i am certainly not going to make it public who buys those coins when they sell.

my coin is unactivated, how does the creator of the site know WHICH tracking number is supposedly assigned to that coin since Groundspeak does not know i own that coin? that information is NOT part of any public database.

why are some people who participated in the creation of the tranquiity site, who have said publicly they own most of the tranquilities, not listed as owners of unactivated coins? it seems some folks can control their name being used on the site and others cannot.

why cannot i get my name removed from an unactivated coin when i request it? shouldn't i have that right? that info is not on the web.

it may seem as if i am making a tempest in a teapot, but this whole thing about minting numbers/TB numbers/tracking numbers/GS database does not make sense.

I agree that if you've not added it to the database yourself, or consented to it, then your name should not be in that public database. The only ones showing in the database currently with your name against them are your activated ones (or ones you've previously owned that were activated). Were you saying that your name is there against unactivated coins?

The database owner should have sought the coins owners permission to list them on that site prior to putting the names against them.

IMO it would be a fair request to ask to have your name removed from beside them in the database.

3.4k · October 4, 2011

...GC knows the name of the vendor that they sold the codes to, but they don't know who bought the items from the vendor

exactly! so now how did the site know how i owned a particular TB### tranquility.

the only way i can think of, is a while back some one ask me to send them pictures of this particular coin because they wanted to confirm whether or not it was a 1st minting before they bought it. they wanted pics of the coin and its insert. in my haste to get the coin photographed i did not notice the tracking code was not completely hidden by the insert - all that was missing was the custom prefix and we all know what that is.

so i never heard from the person again. i figured he changed his mind.

imagine my surprise when a couple of days ago i received a message via ebay asking if the coin had tracking code CM XXXX. well i thought i had screwed up somewhere so said yes, and where did they get the number. i double checked, no, i had not activated the coin and forgotten.

so it is possible the person that made that inquiry gave MY information on MY unactivated to the person that built the site or IS the person that built the site. i still have not received an answer to my question. the person from ebay could be the same person to whom i had sent the photos. i didn't keep those other emails.

I suspect that the information on the website in question is a collection of random bits of information and educated guessing (or outright speculation)

so it isn't really an accurate picture of the tranquilities i don't think.

if I recall correctly, the maker of those geocoins released various tidbits of info
some on the website where they were sold, some right here in these forums, and some via private e-mail exchanges

for example, if it is known that a block of 400 codes was purchased, then it can be assumed that they have consecutive TB codes

some time on the GC website doing searches would narrow down where the group starts and ends

and I believe that the maker of the coins also mentioned how many of some of the versions were made

again, some time doing searches can narrow this down, but some assumptions have to be made

for example, if 200 codes were used, and 50 each of 4 versions were made, then looking at the names of the activated coins in each range can narrow down which group of 50 got what range of coins

but this presumes that the vendor and the factory used the codes strictly in order

i am still not quite clear on how the person that built the site knew how big each block of codes was. he has listed some as 100, then 10, then 20 for example for the same version. how would he know those blocks of codes unless he got that specifically from GS?

now we get to the part where I am totally baffled . . .

why anybody would care all that much about something that is well-nigh impossible to definitively determine

exactly. and how can you say it is almost definitive? something is or isn't definitive.

i spent some time a while back trying to determine much the same thing for my own edification, not for publication. as i was comparing this insert with that, matching up colours with dates, it occurred to me, not only was it impossible to do so, but the bigger question "WHY?" some of us that collected the tranqs wanted to know which minting it was because there was a difference in how the enamel or metal looked. then i wondered "so what?"

all i want is my name off the one bloody unactivated tranquility that is listed. partly because it is about to the sold on ebay and partly because it is nobody's business but my own which unactivated coins i own and what their ephemeral TB# is. and how bizarre is that, to assign TB#s to coins that might never be activated.

there are too many "ifs" in the equation for the web site to hold any validity for me.

3.4k · October 4, 2011

I think you can get all informations you need by using the trackable search function.

For example take a look at one of my sold Platons Atlantis:

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?tracker=TB4NJC7

found by searching for "Platon" at trackable search: http://www.geocaching.com/track/search.aspx?k=platon )

Changing last digit of reference number from 7 to 8

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?tracker=TB4NJC8 = a Platons Atlantis again

now changing to 9:

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?tracker=TB4NJC9 = a unactivated Platons Atlantis

.

.

.

TB4NJD6

.

.

TB4NJE4

.

.

all are Platons Atlantis

looks like all reference numbers are "created" same time the trackingcodes have done. Because how does the system knows that TB4NJC9 is a Platons Atlantis which is not activated.. well ok, if someone received the activationcode but hasn't activated them .....

writing a script checking all possible reference numbers is no problem (I can't do it but it's possible and easy for sure)

checking them and looking at source code will show information about the icon and the path to icon (for eample http://www.geocaching.com/images/wpttypes/4755.gif)

----> 4755.gif in source code = it's a Platons Atlantis

around source code line 274 of an activated coin you will find the owner of the coin....

I think this is the way he got the informations from the public database.

I do not know but I think you will find a block of 450 consecutive reference number because 450 codes for "Platons Atlantis" has been ordered for first run.

And I do not know if all mentioned above is true because I haven't talked to him or asked GS. It's just what came to my mind checking while writing this post.

And sorry for my bad english.

your english is just fine and thank you for the explanation. wow, learned something new everyday.

so, one can tell from a TB number of a coin that one doesn't really have in hand, is an unactivated platons - but not who owns it.

that's kind of my point. somebody gave my name to the tranquility site owner as the owner of a specific tranq and that information, even though it is not publicly available was made available on that site.

interesting.

that would be a daunting task to figure out all those TB numbers for a gazillion tranquilities.

wow.

October 4, 2011

You can recieve every TB-Code of an unactivated coin, if you put in the trackingnumber at the trackable page and klick on "track"

After that you see the web-page which says "the trackable item is not activated" - if you open the source code of this page and search for "tb" you see the tb-reference of this coin.

Many work to figure out all the TQ-Codes - i think...

I was not very amused to see my name at the tq-page for my activated and not activated coin, too..... but no chance to delete the activated. Because the unactivated was a trader of mine, he changed it to "in transit" after asking for this.... No helpful change...

(sorry if i made mistakes, english is not my first language)

Edited October 4, 2011 by ice13-333

3.4k · October 4, 2011

I do not know but I think you will find a block of 450 consecutive reference number because 450 codes for "Platons Atlantis" has been ordered for first run.

Yep, here is your 450 block. It's all so easy.

Oh, and Red: Lorem Ipsum is a placeholder, not a language.

my name is not "red."

oh, and deactivated, there were only 15 blood in the ocean manufactured, and those were mint errors, should have been USA golds. i asked castleman again.

RedShoesGirl

3.4k · October 4, 2011

...

I agree that if you've not added it to the database yourself, or consented to it, then your name should not be in that public database. The only ones showing in the database currently with your name against them are your activated ones (or ones you've previously owned that were activated). Were you saying that your name is there against unactivated coins?

yes. it was, it is now removed. it took a while.

The database owner should have sought the coins owners permission to list them on that site prior to putting the names against them.

IMO it would be a fair request to ask to have your name removed from beside them in the database.

agreed.

as for the tranquilities being over-produced, i think we have had that discussion many times with arguments for both sides so we don't have to rehash that particular story!

RedShoesGirl

October 5, 2011

now we get to the part where I am totally baffled . . .

why anybody would care all that much about something that is well-nigh impossible to definitively determine

Even if it was possible to determine, like it was stated in said thread, it still sounds fishy to me, just like in the first place...

And those sentiments, not to have one's name alined to a certain TQ just deepen my suspicions.

While I might understand, why someone wants to have a database of all the versions, mintings and numbers, why in heavens name do they need to put the owner to it as well?

3.4k · October 5, 2011

...
While I might understand, why someone wants to have a database of all the versions, mintings and numbers, why in heavens name do they need to put the owner to it as well?

exactly!

3.4k · October 5, 2011

thanks everyone for the detailed explanation of how Tracking codes, Travel Bug numbers and Activation codes are all linked together. i really appreciate the time it took to write all of that information down. you guys are amazing!

lara

3.4k · October 5, 2011

i just thought of something. i checked some of the unactivated TB numbers and all that comes up is the coin name "tranquility." it doesn't say which edition or version it is. individual owners named their coins. i know i did to keep track of which one was which. but GS just uses the name "tranquility." it doesn't differentiate between editions.

so how does the tranquility site know which block of codes were for which colour? probably one of those easy answers i am missing.

edited because i still ain't got no good grammer.

Edited October 5, 2011 by RedShoesGirl

October 5, 2011

after thinking about it, I am going to revise part of what I originally said about codes, names and icons

originally, I said that tracking, activation and public codes were all assigned at the time of purchase, and that name and icon may be assigned at a later time

I now believe that this statement is incorrect

I think that all five of these data items are assigned at the same time -

tracking code, activation code, public code, name and icon

so, if (for example) you buy 500 codes, but only use 250 now and save 250 for later, I believe that only the first 250 are assigned TB codes at that time (and only those 250 will be consecutive codes)

then, when you decide what you want to call the second 250, GC.com assigns the codes, name and icon, and a second (separate from the first) group of consecutive TB codes is created

I suspect that there are two main reasons for this -

1. GC probably would not want blank data items (name and icon)

2. the owner of the codes may want a later group of codes to have a common activation code, so that data item could not be known at the time of purchase

much of this is currently moot, given the reduced requirements for purchasing blocks of codes

originally, if you wanted a custom prefix, you had to buy 1,000 codes

many of the people who did so broke that 1,000 down into several sub-groups

nowadays, I suspect that most groups of codes purchased are immediately assigned to items

October 5, 2011

all that comes up is the coin name "tranquility." it doesn't say which edition or version it is. individual owners named their coins. but GS just uses the name "tranquility." it doesn't differentiate between editions.

so how does the tranquility site know which block of codes were for which colour?

GC.com does not know (and probably does not care) about versions

they sold a block of codes, and they all have the same name

(I believe that the current minimum for a different name is 50 codes)

so, once a maker gets their block of 200 codes, they can make them in whatever metal, finish, color, version, variant, size, etc that they desire

they don't report that information back to GC.com, and GC.com wouldn't do anything with the information, even if they did

there are two name fields associated with a trackable item

the GC.com name, and the user-given name

the first is used on your trackable stats page (among other places), and is how you know how many of that item you own or have seen

the second is what you see at the top of the trackable item page

when you do a search, this name is what is looked at

so, if you buy a "Cheech personal geocoin", you could name it "Chong's happy traveller"

it would show on your stats page as a Cheech

but it would not show on a search for "Cheech"

you would only get a hit from a search for "Chong"

you can see what the GC.com name for the item is by going to the trackable page, and hovering your cursor over the icon

at activation time, the default user-given name is the same as the GC.com name

the user-given name can be changed by the owner at any time

both names are used when you get an e-mail notification that your trackable has been moved

so, if you did not change the name, the e-mail title would be -

RedShoesGirl discovered Cheech personal geocoin (Cheech personal geocoin)

but if the coin were named as described above, the e-mail title would be -

RedShoesGirl discovered Chong's happy traveller (Cheech personal geocoin)

now, here is how the deductions (and guesswork) go -

lets say that you know (or at least believe) that a block of 400 codes has been assigned to "Cheech personal geocoin"

as soon as one of them gets activated, and includes the word "Cheech", you can see it in a search result - and then go to the trackable item home page, and find out what the TB code is

now, you begin to look at TB codes above and below the one that you know

keep lowering the code, until you stop seeing Cheech

(and start seeing "Stan Laurel personal geocoin")

now you know the lower limit of the range

repeat the process for the upper range

(keep going until you see "Oliver Hardy personal geocoin")

now you know the complete range

and can confirm (or dispute) the 400 codes information that you started out with

for this technique, you really only need one activated coin that uses the same user-given name as the GC.com name

but if none of the Cheech coins have been activated yet, you are out of luck

or if somebody called their "Buster Keaton personal geocoin" "Cheech rules the world", you would get a search hit on that, and start your investigation at the wrong place

but assuming all goes well, you don't need to look at every code

in the case of 400 codes, just go up or down 100 codes, and see if the name is the same

then adjust by 50 and repeat - then again for 25, and again for 12, etc

soon enough, you will zero in on the place where the name change happens

(this is called a "binary search", by the way)

for the versions, it is a little more difficult

and perhaps a lot more uncertain

let's say that you believe that 400 coins were made, with 100 each of blue, green, orange and red

if each set of 100 were used in order, then you have a fair chance of determining what the code ranges are

just use a similar strategy as described above

as long as enough people have activated their items, and put the right word in the name, you can narrow down which group of 100 was used for each color

but if the codes were used - 20 blue, then 20 green, then 20 more blue, you are probably out of luck

but let's say that the codes were used in strict order

again, you can go looking at the names of activated coins

here, you are relying on the owner naming their coin correctly

but if they do, then the technique described will let you zoom in on what colors got what range of codes

but if your information is wrong, and there were actually 125 made of two colors, and 75 of the other two, then you will never know that, unless all of the items get activated, and mention the correct color in the name

I guess you could call it "forensic data processing"

I have actually had fun, thinking of how to do it, and contemplating all of the ways that it might go wrong

October 5, 2011

here is your 450 block.

this is new to me

I have not seen a trackable search that gave results for unactivated items before

I would be curious to know how this was done . . .

October 5, 2011

here is your 450 block.
this is new to me
I have not seen a trackable search that gave results for unactivated items before

I would be curious to know how this was done . . .

I'm pretty sure you get them all because of "tx=d3115480-e0b2-459d-b3a1-2f9c8156e961" of "http://www.geocaching.com/track/search.aspx?tx=d3115480-e0b2-459d-b3a1-2f9c8156e961"

I think the "d3115480-e0b2-459d-b3a1-2f9c8156e961" includes an (encoded) information that refers to the Platons Atlantis. If you get this "ID" (or how it is called) of a geocoin you can search for all of them. Don't ask me how to get this.

Edited October 5, 2011 by wenzelbub

October 5, 2011

I guess you could call it "forensic data processing"

I like that term. But there are much better ways to get these results you would try to find by probing for IDs, which as you already described is limited by how many people have activated their trackables. See below:

If you get this "ID" (or how it is called)

It's called Universally unique identifier (UUID).

UUID of the Tranquility Geocoin series: 38869133-adfa-44a7-8201-1ce9fceee4e6

The data on our website is the result of precise database forensics completed by information from unactivated Geocoins, release notes, forum posts, private investigations and also some educated guesses.

How does one find the UUID for a particular trackable?

edited for horrible typing

Edited October 5, 2011 by scificollector

3.4k · October 5, 2011

I guess you could call it "forensic data processing"

I like that term. But there are much better ways to get these results you would try to find by probing for IDs, which as you already described is limited by how many people have activated their trackables. See below:

If you get this "ID" (or how it is called)

It's called Universally unique identifier (UUID).

UUID of the Tranquility Geocoin series: 38869133-adfa-44a7-8201-1ce9fceee4e6

The data on our website is the result of precise database forensics completed by information from unactivated Geocoins, release notes, forum posts, private investigations and also some educated guesses.

i understand. still does not take into account mint errors that were renamed after they made it to the vendor's hands. but perhaps i am looking at things way too detailed.

just trying to let you know, blood in the ocean was never intended to be a real edition but was indeed a mint error that was renamed from USA gold. and only 15 were made. not 25. so somewhere in all of your forensic investigations, mistakes happen.

3.4k · October 5, 2011

...
I guess you could call it "forensic data processing"

I have actually had fun, thinking of how to do it, and contemplating all of the ways that it might go wrong

didn't want to quote your whole detailed message so ... let's just use the tranquility as an example 'cause frankly you lost me with cheech and chong! i still don't get how anyone can determine which version is which since the vendor was the one that determined those names and each individual owner could rename it again and again. but it still come up as a tranquility on any trackable number search. it may not say tranquility on the trackable's page, but the icon is that of a tranquility and in one's list of trackables, that is what it is called.

i do understand your method of forensic guessing though.

there is just too much uncertainty for me to place much credence in mint numbers and such on the site.

thanks!

now i'll try to be quiet.

rsg

October 5, 2011

I guess you could call it "forensic data processing"

I like that term. But there are much better ways to get these results you would try to find by probing for IDs, which as you already described is limited by how many people have activated their trackables. See below:

If you get this "ID" (or how it is called)

It's called Universally unique identifier (UUID).

UUID of the Tranquility Geocoin series: 38869133-adfa-44a7-8201-1ce9fceee4e6

The data on our website is the result of precise database forensics completed by information from unactivated Geocoins, release notes, forum posts, private investigations and also some educated guesses.

How does one find the UUID for a particular trackable?

edited for horrible typing

Aha! Figured out how to do it.

3.4k · October 8, 2011

However, for some reason ten other coins of Blood In The Ocean were done in Batch #15. Proof is the coin I have in my hands. So it's 15+10 if you like it or not.

i prefer to believe the vendor who said there were only the 15 made rather than your "investigations" which cannot be proved.

3.4k · October 8, 2011

i prefer to believe the vendor who said there were only the 15 made rather than your "investigations" which cannot be proved.

It can be proved since I own the coin from the remint of the so called mint error.

how do you know it was part of a remint? do you know where all of the coins are and you have the 16th? 17th?

i am not trying to be contentious, just going to sell blood in the ocean and not sure what to put up for mint numbers?

edited because i still can't spell!

Edited October 8, 2011 by RedShoesGirl

3.4k · October 8, 2011

As of the current state of proven info it seems to me that Castleman finally minted three Antique Bronze he was previously only joking about only to fulfill the obsessive requests for it by you, Holger and Rainer. I can be wrong on this, I know, but there is no one else I found yet who had another Antique Bronze to prove me wrong.

there was another person who owned the antique bronze. not going to mention the name because if that person wanted to be known, they would speak up.

the antique bronzes were not made in order to fulfill requests, i am not sure where you got that idea. who is holger? and to say it was a obsessive requests, well, i find that terribly amusing. let's not stoop to unfounded accusations. i was obsessive about acquiring one AFTER i knew it had been minted and was trying to complete my collection. that was not the last coin i acquired.

i received this from castleman when i asked him about the sequencing of coins and numbers:

>> Well, unfortunately for him and the TQ world, some of the time I sent the numbers to the mint in alphabetical order when I was organizing instead of sequence order as sent by Groundspeak. So, in essence this means that some of the items are right and others are far wrong.

I only got 15 of those USA errors called blood oceans. After that I ordered random stuff, USA, german, blue world and more. No idea if one or more others came back with errors or not. I just sent those out as fast as they came.<<

that should satisfy even you.

i have asked the mods to close this thread before it gets to be unpleasant.

thanks for your ideas, very interesting, even if misguided.

RSG

Edited October 8, 2011 by RedShoesGirl

3.4k · October 9, 2011

Jim Collins? Lol!

LOL! NO!

Looking at our list there is simply no room for it. This is where my doubts come from.

Now close this thread if you are afraid of the outcome of my researches.

oh sweetie, you don't frighten me. i posted what castleman said about your research and lists. your logic is faulty. read it again if you have any doubts about how things were ordered and given numbers.

8.8k · October 9, 2011

Closed at the OP's request.

tranquility website/tracking numbers/database

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