Challenging hunt or annoying needle-in-a-haystack?

[+mellers]

Hi all,

 

Been caching for a while, but pretty new to the forum and hoping you can give me your opinions.

 

I'm thinking of setting a new cache as a 100ml waterproof lab tube, hidden in a hollow in a tree - in an area where there are about 7 or so possible 'tree' GZs (given what tree coverage does to GPS accuracy). I want it to be a challenging hunt to give it something like a 3 or 4 difficulty, so I won't be giving a hint, but I don't want to annoy people with it . The only clue to the location will be in the cache title, and I'll put a note on the page about this being "Intended as a difficult find".

 

I've been browsing the main forum and there seem to be a lot of posts on there from people - mostly US cachers - who hate certain types of hide which they consider to be "needle-in-a-haystack". I don't want my cache to make people feel bad, but I do want to make it different to some of the other easy finds. To add to the interest, I'm thinking of making it part of a series with different cache sizes D & T ratings and the whole series will be a looped route with fab views, so I'm hoping that those cachers who "come for the hike, stay for the cache" etc won't be disappointed.

 

Anyway, opinions if you would be annoyed by such a hide - and any suggestions to make it less so, would be very welcome! (BTW - this will be my FIRST go at creating a series, so doubtless, I'll be back for more advice soon!)

 

TIA Mellers

[+lodgebarn]

Well for me if it was a localish series so time wasn't a great constraint then no real problem. However if I was in the area for a short time and had travelled quite a way to get there then very annoying. So you can't please all the people all the time .

Edited October 3, 2011 by lodgebarn

[+Amberel]

I like dificult hides, provided they are ingeniously difficult and not, as you term it, needle in a haystack difficult. Anything that involves having mindlessly to go through dozens of similar objects until you just hit the right one by chance is a turn off for me.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+nevadanick]

We're not 'new'... but we're not strangers to caching either. There is always something for everyone but our take is....

 

Challenges are great as long it is indicated up front and the D/T ratings are correct. Looking around 7 trees shouldn't be an issue. If caching in general weren't intended to be variable, there wouldn't be a 1 to 5 'D'ifficulty rating and a 1 to 5 'T'errain rating. Due to medical issues, I have to avoid terrains above a 2 to 2.5 but there are those who don't even bother with a 1 or 2 T rating.

 

Where we have a problem is hunting caches that are accurately found to be a 'needle in a haystack'. We really do not enjoy turning over 1,000 nearly identical rocks in a geo-pile to find a micro vial glued to one of them. When it can be described as even 'slightly' out of place, it returns to being a challenge, not a pain. Anytime the hunt is for one item that looks exactly like several hundred of the same item in a concentrated area... that's annoying.

 

I would say ... proceed as described above ... happy caching !!

 

nn

[+mickyz]

I will look forward to a nice walk with views and when I get to this

one, spend a little while looking for it ,then carry on looking for some

nice big caches under a pile of logs

[+JimJinks]

Any hide where the specific location is ambiguous will possibly lead to lots of trampling and damage to the surrounding area.

[patdhill]

Any hide where the specific location is ambiguous will possibly lead to lots of trampling and damage to the surrounding area.

I agree with this, how much damage is going to be caused to the seven trees with people looking for something so small.

 

I'm not a great fan of needlessly difficult hides especially as part of a series. The one DNF can cast a shadow over a otherwise great walk and if it's a reasonable distance from home then there is little chance I'm going to revisit just to have another look for the one I missed.

[+MartyBartfast]

Any hide where the specific location is ambiguous will possibly lead to lots of trampling and damage to the surrounding area.

I agree with this, how much damage is going to be caused to the seven trees with people looking for something so small.

 

That would be my concern too. If I was looking for such a cache I probably wouldn't spend more than about 10-15 minutes looking for it, after which I'd just move on to the next one.

 

Edit:

Ha Ha, just had a look at your profile, and it seems I might well end up looking for it as you're in my area!

Edited October 3, 2011 by MartyBartfast

[+mellers]

Any hide where the specific location is ambiguous will possibly lead to lots of trampling and damage to the surrounding area.

That's a very valid point, and something I think I'd be keen to minimise in this particular instance due to the possible location - so it's not so much a case of "It's annoying" rather a case of, "it's damaging"

 

Still, I want to make the find more difficult than your average cache just so it wouldn't get complaints for being boring (I'm keen to get a variety of D/T ratings on what will be my first go at a series). Is there a good way to do this rather than just 'not give a hint'? Would it be better to leave the cache size "not chosen" and be more specific about the location?

 

Mind you, I've done (and REALLY enjoyed) plenty of series with the same D/T throughout, so am I making this more difficult for myself than I have to? Oh the dilemma!

 

P.S. Thanks for all the input so far, it's really helping me get my head round what's important.

[+The Blorenges]

 

Still, I want to make the find more difficult than your average cache just so it wouldn't get complaints for being boring (I'm keen to get a variety of D/T ratings on what will be my first go at a series). Is there a good way to do this rather than just 'not give a hint'? Would it be better to leave the cache size "not chosen" and be more specific about the location?

 

 

Have you considered making a good disguised container? We've seen micros in very convincing toadstools, fircones, plastic frogs, snails, dead wood etc.

 

MrsB

[+t.a.folk]

Hi all,

 

Been caching for a while, but pretty new to the forum and hoping you can give me your opinions.

 

I'm thinking of setting a new cache as a 100ml waterproof lab tube, hidden in a hollow in a tree - in an area where there are about 7 or so possible 'tree' GZs (given what tree coverage does to GPS accuracy). I want it to be a challenging hunt to give it something like a 3 or 4 difficulty, so I won't be giving a hint,

 

Just our opinion if these are trees with some rot associated with them.

Straight away we thought of the disturbance to the living quarters of the little creatures that reside in the rotten bits of hollow trees ".

[+drdick&vick]

Any hide where the specific location is ambiguous will possibly lead to lots of trampling and damage to the surrounding area.

I have to agree with this point, having visited many caches sites that resembled war zones I will often just walk on rather than add to the damage.

[+keehotee]

Hi all,

 

Been caching for a while, but pretty new to the forum and hoping you can give me your opinions.

 

I'm thinking of setting a new cache as a 100ml waterproof lab tube, hidden in a hollow in a tree - in an area where there are about 7 or so possible 'tree' GZs (given what tree coverage does to GPS accuracy). I want it to be a challenging hunt to give it something like a 3 or 4 difficulty, so I won't be giving a hint, but I don't want to annoy people with it . The only clue to the location will be in the cache title, and I'll put a note on the page about this being "Intended as a difficult find".

 

I've been browsing the main forum and there seem to be a lot of posts on there from people - mostly US cachers - who hate certain types of hide which they consider to be "needle-in-a-haystack". I don't want my cache to make people feel bad, but I do want to make it different to some of the other easy finds. To add to the interest, I'm thinking of making it part of a series with different cache sizes D & T ratings and the whole series will be a looped route with fab views, so I'm hoping that those cachers who "come for the hike, stay for the cache" etc won't be disappointed.

 

Anyway, opinions if you would be annoyed by such a hide - and any suggestions to make it less so, would be very welcome! (BTW - this will be my FIRST go at creating a series, so doubtless, I'll be back for more advice soon!)

 

TIA Mellers

You'll get as many different opinions in here as there are hiding places - so why don't you just hide the sort of cache YOU'D enjoy finding!

[+drsolly]

Hi all,

 

Been caching for a while, but pretty new to the forum and hoping you can give me your opinions.

 

I'm thinking of setting a new cache as a 100ml waterproof lab tube, hidden in a hollow in a tree - in an area where there are about 7 or so possible 'tree' GZs (given what tree coverage does to GPS accuracy). I want it to be a challenging hunt to give it something like a 3 or 4 difficulty, so I won't be giving a hint,

 

Just our opinion if these are trees with some rot associated with them.

Straight away we thought of the disturbance to the living quarters of the little creatures that reside in the rotten bits of hollow trees ".

 

I find it hard to muster much sympathy for earwigs.

[+Bear and Ragged]

Hi all,

 

Been caching for a while, but pretty new to the forum and hoping you can give me your opinions.

 

I'm thinking of setting a new cache as a 100ml waterproof lab tube, hidden in a hollow in a tree - in an area where there are about 7 or so possible 'tree' GZs (given what tree coverage does to GPS accuracy). I want it to be a challenging hunt to give it something like a 3 or 4 difficulty, so I won't be giving a hint,

 

Just our opinion if these are trees with some rot associated with them.

Straight away we thought of the disturbance to the living quarters of the little creatures that reside in the rotten bits of hollow trees ".

 

I find it hard to muster much sympathy for earwigs.

Do you mind.

 

When asked "What are you doing?" by a muggle... I say "I'm counting Earwigs..."

[+drsolly]

Hi all,

 

Been caching for a while, but pretty new to the forum and hoping you can give me your opinions.

 

I'm thinking of setting a new cache as a 100ml waterproof lab tube, hidden in a hollow in a tree - in an area where there are about 7 or so possible 'tree' GZs (given what tree coverage does to GPS accuracy). I want it to be a challenging hunt to give it something like a 3 or 4 difficulty, so I won't be giving a hint,

 

Just our opinion if these are trees with some rot associated with them.

Straight away we thought of the disturbance to the living quarters of the little creatures that reside in the rotten bits of hollow trees ".

 

I find it hard to muster much sympathy for earwigs.

Do you mind.

 

When asked "What are you doing?" by a muggle... I say "I'm counting Earwigs..."

 

Well, someone's got to do it.

[+Bear and Ragged]

Hi all,

 

Been caching for a while, but pretty new to the forum and hoping you can give me your opinions.

 

I'm thinking of setting a new cache as a 100ml waterproof lab tube, hidden in a hollow in a tree - in an area where there are about 7 or so possible 'tree' GZs (given what tree coverage does to GPS accuracy). I want it to be a challenging hunt to give it something like a 3 or 4 difficulty, so I won't be giving a hint,

 

Just our opinion if these are trees with some rot associated with them.

Straight away we thought of the disturbance to the living quarters of the little creatures that reside in the rotten bits of hollow trees ".

 

I find it hard to muster much sympathy for earwigs.

Do you mind.

 

When asked "What are you doing?" by a muggle... I say "I'm counting Earwigs..."

 

Well, someone's got to do it.

As someone else already has "I'm counting slugs..."

Gotta be different!

[+Happy Humphrey]

"Needle-in-a-haystack" caches get the thumbs-down from me.

 

If you're hiding something so it's really hard to find, the ideal reaction from people finding it should be "how come I never looked there", or "we've been staring at the cache for the last hour and now we've found it it's so obvious", or "GPS is spot on and the hint gives it away but we still decided to check the wrong places". Or "I put my hat on it and only spotted it when we were leaving" (which I've had).

One of my old caches was called "Magnetic". Well, it was. It just wasn't actually attached to anything metal. Seems to fool everyone, even though the hint gives the exact position.

 

Another was "Grey Stone". Again; it was painted like a grey stone and there were a lot of them around. But why not check inside the prominent metal post first? That's where it was attached, by a magnet. Or "Nano in the woods", hidden inside a big ammo box.

 

Make it a fair and amusing challenge, not a boring exercise.

[+martlakes]

Agree with Mr. Humphrey, anyone can hide a nano in a rock field and make it a 'hard' cache to find. But there's no fun in that just frustration. If you make it a bit creative, different, and with an oblique hint then while standing in a pile of rocks you've got something to work on and think about. Then when you work it out there's a sense of achievement, or if you find it by accident (as you pick your rucksac up or something) then astonishment and fun and big smiles.

 

I also dislike hint-less caches. I'm obviously stuck, which is why I'm looking for a hint. Even if it's very cryptic then at least I've got something to think about rather than be left with no idea at all.

 

Found one with a latin plant hint recently. Hadn't checked google so no idea which plant. However, it didn't have oakus in so it wasn't the oak, which narrowed down the possible sites. So even a hint we didn't know was still of some use cos we thought about it.

 

So, in short, no thanks to needle caches - damage, frustration, muttering and

A combination of sneaky hide, oblique hint, and perhaps a cunning title = challenge, achievement, fun and

 

Don't forget that a gps can only get you in the area. Without any other hints or clues, you are often left with quite a range of possibilities.

 

Anyway, have fun with it. One of the reasons I like hiding caches is seeing how finders interpret the hints and clues and trying to get the balance right so people enjoy our caches.

[+t.a.folk]

Hi all,

 

Been caching for a while, but pretty new to the forum and hoping you can give me your opinions.

 

I'm thinking of setting a new cache as a 100ml waterproof lab tube, hidden in a hollow in a tree - in an area where there are about 7 or so possible 'tree' GZs (given what tree coverage does to GPS accuracy). I want it to be a challenging hunt to give it something like a 3 or 4 difficulty, so I won't be giving a hint,

 

Just our opinion if these are trees with some rot associated with them.

Straight away we thought of the disturbance to the living quarters of the little creatures that reside in the rotten bits of hollow trees ".

 

I find it hard to muster much sympathy for earwigs.

 

Maybe more sympathy for Stag Beetles.

 

http://www.woodlands.co.uk/blog/wildlife/dead-wood-and-stag-beetles/

[+Lime Candy]

One tree in seven isn't really such bad odds. I'm not a fan of true needle-in-a-haystack, such as a nano in a pinecone hanging in a pine tree. But hung in any other sort of tree, it's a cunning and clever hide.

[+Teacosies]

Agree with Mr. Humphrey, anyone can hide a nano in a rock field and make it a 'hard' cache to find. But there's no fun in that just frustration.

 

I also dislike hint-less caches. I'm obviously stuck, which is why I'm looking for a hint.

 

Don't forget that a gps can only get you in the area. Without any other hints or clues, you are often left with quite a range of possibilities.

 

Also bare in mind, what you may think is a blatant clue; may be totally mystifying to anyone else!

[+drsolly]

 

Also bare in mind, what you may think is a blatant clue; may be totally mystifying to anyone else!

 

Pet hate - a hint that tells me what I already know, such as "Near a tree" or is too vague to be useful, such as "50 paces from the footpath sign", or tells me something that will only be useful after I find the cache, such as "In a Marmite jar", or which isn't a hint at all, such as "Because of the extreme simplicity of this simple cache, a clue will only be posted after several people have posted that they cannot find the cache".

 

When writing your hint, put yourself in the position of someone who has already found the approximate location of the cache, has spent several minutes within a few yards of the cache, might have approached it from any sensible direction (so "left" and "right" might not be meaningful), and now needs a bit of help.

[+redsox_mark]

 

Also bare in mind, what you may think is a blatant clue; may be totally mystifying to anyone else!

 

Pet hate - a hint that tells me what I already know, such as "Near a tree" or is too vague to be useful, such as "50 paces from the footpath sign", or tells me something that will only be useful after I find the cache, such as "In a Marmite jar", or which isn't a hint at all, such as "Because of the extreme simplicity of this simple cache, a clue will only be posted after several people have posted that they cannot find the cache".

 

When writing your hint, put yourself in the position of someone who has already found the approximate location of the cache, has spent several minutes within a few yards of the cache, might have approached it from any sensible direction (so "left" and "right" might not be meaningful), and now needs a bit of help.

 

I agree with the Dr.

 

Also don't put information in the hint which everyone should read in advance - put it on the cache page. For example, one I recently found which had "be careful of the barbed wire" in the hint.

[+Bear and Ragged]

When writing your hint, put yourself in the position of someone who has already found the approximate location of the cache, has spent several minutes within a few yards of the cache, might have approached it from any sensible direction (so "left" and "right" might not be meaningful), and now needs a bit of help.

 

Or, the fact there are cachers out there that don't look at the hint first. (Me!)

But may find the cache out in the open -muggled, pushed out by animals, moved by the weather etc.,- that need to know where to replace the cache!

[+Happy Humphrey]

The Hint - a whole forum in itself! Great advice above. I would add; don't be tempted to make the hint amusingly cryptic, so that you are meant have a little laugh when you quickly find the cache and figure out what the hint means.

It's more likely to generate grimly ironic smiles (when the cache was found after an hour-long search) or sighs of frustration (when you not only can't find the cache, but to make you feel really thick you also can't understand the hint!).

 

The ones that annoy me most are probably the "in the corner of the field" type, where it tells you no more than GPS does. That bit belongs in the description, if anywhere.

 

To me, the main purpose of the hint is to prevent a wasted half hour searching for a muggled cache. It should eliminate enough potential hiding places that you can be pretty sure that you've looked in the right spot. Then you can report back that the cache seems to have gone, but you only waste ten minutes checking.

[+Legochugglers]

On the other hand I dont want a hint that just tells you exactly where the cache is.In my opinion a Hint should do what it says on the tin eg a clue!. I enjoy a hint that is a little bit different, makes you think and evaluate your surroundings. If done correctly it can be an art form in itself.

[team tisri]

Hi all,

 

Been caching for a while, but pretty new to the forum and hoping you can give me your opinions.

 

I'm thinking of setting a new cache as a 100ml waterproof lab tube, hidden in a hollow in a tree - in an area where there are about 7 or so possible 'tree' GZs (given what tree coverage does to GPS accuracy). I want it to be a challenging hunt to give it something like a 3 or 4 difficulty, so I won't be giving a hint, but I don't want to annoy people with it . The only clue to the location will be in the cache title, and I'll put a note on the page about this being "Intended as a difficult find".

 

I've been browsing the main forum and there seem to be a lot of posts on there from people - mostly US cachers - who hate certain types of hide which they consider to be "needle-in-a-haystack". I don't want my cache to make people feel bad, but I do want to make it different to some of the other easy finds. To add to the interest, I'm thinking of making it part of a series with different cache sizes D & T ratings and the whole series will be a looped route with fab views, so I'm hoping that those cachers who "come for the hike, stay for the cache" etc won't be disappointed.

 

Anyway, opinions if you would be annoyed by such a hide - and any suggestions to make it less so, would be very welcome! (BTW - this will be my FIRST go at creating a series, so doubtless, I'll be back for more advice soon!)

 

TIA Mellers

 

Personally I don't mind the kind of cache where I have to think, and if there are a few possible hiding places that can just make the difference between a cache that's trivially easy and a cache that requires a bit of work. If there are hundreds of hiding places, or I'm looking for a micro in an ivy covered tree when all I can see for miles around is ivy covered trees, that's when I lose interest.

 

But everyone is different, some people like hunting film pots in wet ivy.

[+Happy Humphrey]

some people like hunting film pots in wet ivy.

Do you have any evidence for that?!

[+drsolly]

some people like hunting film pots in wet ivy.

Do you have any evidence for that?!

It isn't that I *like* it, it's that my OCD/Aspergers/ADHD/Tourettes forces me to do it. It's a handicap that I've just had to come to terms with, and I can't even get a special parking place.